NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #5600 (ISO) » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:59 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5598, Thor665 wrote:You find that to be a valid and fair tell?


I found his state of mind to be inconsistent with someone who claims to have just caught 3 scum.

So why are you voting him?
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Post Post #5601 (ISO) » Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:38 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 5586, AxleGreaser wrote:I wish to point out, you are explicitly claiming to know the reasons I do things are bad/shit/whatever


yet here you explicitly state you dont know where I did in fact explain that.

Me not agreeing with you and thinking that something is not town motivated=//=me knowing you said that. I didn't see that and/or forgot.


In post 5588, Flubbernugget wrote:Nero is there a reason you keep screaming that axle is town but like the iz wagon more?

Since when do I have a town read on Axle?


In post 5591, Thor665 wrote:So you agree with me, then, that he is fairly clearly not a Werewolf - so you really wish to lynch someone who is 50% cleared at this stage?

Yes and no. I'm fairly confident that he's mafia and I think his "oh well Ren is mafia....but lets lynch Beast" would be perfectly acceptable to way to treat his buddy and we'd still have to lynch him-mafia eventually. If we flip him today then great but I'm fully willing to compromise on IZ or Flubber.

Speaking of Flubber...I'd lynch him over Pine.

The other thing that makes me think Axle mafia is

In post 5246, AxleGreaser wrote:yeah if i am wrong about beast, I expect significant amounts of my current reads to change.

yet NOTHING has changed for him. He is still scumreading me (but as a wolf) and two lurksacks. And one of those two lurksacks were being voted by mafia so it makes me think TSO is less likely to be mafia. So to me it has an air of not mafia hunting.

Why do you think Axle is not mafia?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5602 (ISO) » Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:53 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 5569, AxleGreaser wrote:You claimed I was against VCA which I said was made up bullshit which is why i crossed it out

It was more mocking you than anything but you DID chide me over using VCA today. If you aren't against VCA why did you feel the need to discredit my use of VCA?

I assume your response will be something along the lines of "Well u said that
based on VCA alone these guys are scum.
You aren't using your reads!"

Well, this also ignores the fact that I was previously scumreading Iz, Flubber and Shiro. (Though VCA kinda makes me doubt Shiro.) I mean you think I'm so scummy for "not reading" your posts yet you aren't reading my posts. I see hypocritical scum!
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5603 (ISO) » Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:18 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 5531, AxleGreaser wrote:@SHiro
In post 5530, Nero Cain wrote:I think the chances that scum waste three shots on a player are fairly slim.


given the alternative is shoot three guys each with a vote, or take the risk that when leaving boon alive until endgame and wondering if this will happen
In post 5405, Boonskiies wrote:We're getting to the point where I believe I'm going to actually start becoming a strong town player in this game.

In post 4330, Boonskiies wrote:I actually start to become a pretty strong town player mid-game.

I also find this hilariously bad. I mean I am highly doubtful that scum would go "oh Boon said he's going to become a good player, we better kill that ASAP!" looks like some whiteknighting to me.




best idea is just play mafia and try to read the guys alignment the old fashioned way.

I was recently in a game where scum said something similar to this. I fully expect the "Well he isn't Toog and Toog saying this (or something similar) doesn't make Axle scum!" While that is true I think its scum motivated in that its ignoring other disciplines of finding scum in favor of "reads".
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5604 (ISO) » Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:22 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 5492, AxleGreaser wrote:You have studiously, avoided analysisng the actual thread,

What am I avoiding analyzing? How do you think we should be looking for scum?

Can you remind me why you unvoted Beast.

Why did you not vote Ren when you unvoted Beast?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5605 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:03 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5601, Nero Cain wrote:Me not agreeing with you and thinking that something is not town motivated=//=me knowing you said that. I didn't see that and/or forgot.


which is something, I your scum read said three times... and you didnt see or remeber any of them,
and yet claim to scum read my reasoning..
yeah right.


and while we are talking about you just not reading stuff....
In post 5601, Nero Cain wrote:
yet NOTHING has changed for him.


and in truth what changed? (well we could always look at my posts that Nero conveniently forgets to do ... again...)
In post 5492, AxleGreaser wrote:As Beast didnt flip scum, then all the pre flip associative stuff I thought I was seeing was not there.



In post 5601, Nero Cain wrote:
He is still scumreading me (but as a wolf) and two lurksacks. And one of those two lurksacks were being voted by mafia so it makes me think TSO is less likely to be mafia. So to me it has an air of not mafia hunting.


So my scum reads, are the same scums reads i had before they ran away and started lurking. Gee whizz I wonder why that would be? and as those were the rads i had before I thought i had worked out beast was scum, which ones really ought stay.

So rather than just "saying to me" your play seems scummy, I say it is scummy.
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Post Post #5606 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:43 am

Post by Nero Cain »

So Beast flips town and that doesn't make you feel any differently about anyone? Totes bullshit
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5607 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:50 am

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 5602, Nero Cain wrote:If you aren't against VCA why did you feel the need to discredit my use of VCA?


In post 5604, Nero Cain wrote:What am I avoiding analyzing? How do you think we should be looking for scum?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5608 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:54 am

Post by Nero Cain »

but also saying "As Beast didnt flip scum, then all the pre flip associative stuff I thought I was seeing was not there." Is actually proving my point that nothing changed for you.

In post 5604, Nero Cain wrote:Can you remind me why you unvoted Beast.

Why did you not vote Ren when you unvoted Beast?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5609 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 5:11 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5608, Nero Cain wrote:but also saying "As Beast didnt flip scum, then all the pre flip associative stuff I thought I was seeing was not there." Is actually proving my point that nothing changed for you.

Err bullshit.
The stuff I was getting from thinking I had caught beast as WW was re evaluated.
I suggest you define what on earth nothing means for you as the above is explicitly stating what did change. and you define something the thing that changed as nothing. WTF.

You might just as logically claim it proves your point that I am a yeti.


In post 5604, Nero Cain wrote:Can you remind me why you unvoted Beast.

Why did you not vote Ren when you unvoted Beast?


Well I would just direct you the thread but you already both claimed and demonstrated you dont read it or claim not to remember it...
and in truth, even though it is right there where i unvoted him) you need to read little between the lines
In post 5316, AxleGreaser wrote: (2)and finally I really would prefer to lynch another WW over a maf today.

(1)however it is time

UNVOTE: Beast

Note I really might vote him again, (1)but I reckon I have as much good info as i can reasonably expect to get. Time to re-evaluate the day from scratch.


(1) yes shock horror on day when the claimed to be town cop had claimed really early for no particularly good reason, I had tried to milk the day for other associative tells and make an actual contested wagon out of it.

Thus worst case if iw as wrong and Beast was town, we at least had stuff happen. Second the only way to actually find out if Beast was town cop was to push him about it. Unfortunately I didn't get enough ring of truth to sway me. But fortunately enough other townies did.

(2) and look here is me consistently indicating a desire to lynch the short stacked faction yet again...

and so yes this "it is time" gave the green light to any towny standing around with the hands in their pockets giving me space to play, that the day could end the day.

and no while i did believe it quite likely both would flip scum, I did believe it better to flip the guy i believed was a WW rather than a mafia, for the reasons already now repeated many times in the thread.

Also please start explaining how any of this shit you want to discuss but never even bother looking in my filter for is alignment indicative at all?
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Post Post #5610 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:49 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 5609, AxleGreaser wrote:
The stuff I was getting from thinking I had caught beast as WW was re evaluated.


So you started to doubt your scumread on Beast?

I suggest you define what on earth nothing means for you as the above is explicitly stating what did change. and you define something the thing that changed as nothing. WTF.

Well from what I understand you were scumreading all of me, TSO, and Josh B. Then Beast claims a guilty on Ren and Ren CC's and then you started scumreading them both. Beast flips town and this apparently changes nothing for you as your reads are still exactly the same as before. Why do you think Beast flipping town doesn't point to anyone? Or maybe you are...I mean you indicated that you think me buying Beasts claim means I knew he was town and you are scumreading TSO but all this seems "convenient". Like your reads are p static (and STALE!)


In post 5609, AxleGreaser wrote:

In post 5604, Nero Cain wrote:Can you remind me why you unvoted Beast.

Why did you not vote Ren when you unvoted Beast?


Well I would just direct you the thread but you already both claimed and demonstrated you dont read it or claim not to remember it...
and in truth, even though it is right there where i unvoted him) you need to read little between the lines
In post 5316, AxleGreaser wrote: (2)and finally I really would prefer to lynch another WW over a maf today.

(1)however it is time

UNVOTE: Beast

Note I really might vote him again, (1)but I reckon I have as much good info as i can reasonably expect to get. Time to re-evaluate the day from scratch.


(1) yes shock horror on day when the claimed to be town cop
had claimed really early for no particularly good reason
, I had tried to milk the day for other associative tells and make an actual contested wagon out of it.

I think claiming a guilty is a p good reason to claim. Why do you not think so?


(2) and look here is me consistently indicating a desire to lynch the short stacked faction yet again...

ok....but that's like not even a reason to unvote?

I mean maybe I could buy you wanting to do some rereading before the day ended but you clearly state below that you were ok with the day ending. Don't the two conflict?


and so yes this "it is time" gave the green light to any towny standing around with the hands in their pockets giving me space to play,
that the day could end the day
.



Also please start explaining how any of this shit you want to discuss but never even bother looking in my filter for is alignment indicative at all?

I'm an eternal optimist. Like I really don't think you are town and I'm hoping that our arguments will help convince Thor and whomever else doubts you are scum that you are scum.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5611 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:19 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 5600, AxleGreaser wrote:I found his state of mind to be inconsistent with someone who claims to have just caught 3 scum.

So why are you voting him?

1. So is your argument based on the idea he was scum, was not having fun, and replaced out only for that? Because my perception was it was an availability based replace out, not an interest based replace out - no?

2. Why do I do anything? I will admit I've been selling Flubber quite a bit while voting Pine. Really that's up to you to interpret, because I see no need to explain it beyond admission of the reality in front of you.
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Post Post #5612 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:07 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 5246, AxleGreaser wrote:
yeah if i am wrong about
beast, I expect significant amounts of my current reads to change.


WRONG


I expect significant amounts of my current reads to change

NOT A SINGLE READ HAS CHANGED!!!
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5613 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:06 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5611, Thor665 wrote:because I see no need to explain it beyond admission of the reality in front of you.

:neutral:
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Post Post #5614 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:07 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5610, Nero Cain wrote:So you started to doubt your scumread on Beast?


as that is not what the words say... not sure why you are claiming it is.
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Post Post #5615 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:11 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5610, Nero Cain wrote:


Also please start explaining how any of this shit you want to discuss but never even bother looking in my filter for is alignment indicative at all?

I'm an eternal optimist. Like I really don't think you are town and I'm hoping that our arguments will help convince Thor and whomever else doubts you are scum that you are scum.


Ah
so while you are not actually arguing or stating that I am scum or the th9ings you mention are alignment indicative,
you are just eternally optimistic, that just the argument itself will help convince them.
AKA a hail mary?

If you have nothing else then that is playing the game i suppose.
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Post Post #5616 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:31 pm

Post by Aegor »

DrippingGoofball replaces Izariael effective immediately.

The game will not end before New Year's Eve; some further but not super-long extension is possible given DGB's expressed need.
Currently partying at the
M A S Q U E R A D E
-- a Large Normal for 21 revelers.
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Post Post #5617 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:22 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 5614, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 5610, Nero Cain wrote:So you started to doubt your scumread on Beast
?


as that is not what the words say... not sure why you are claiming it is.

I know that you are ESL but that's a question mark which means its a question. You can pay me later for the English lesson. :good:

But to be honest I DID take it as you maybe doubting your scumread on him 'cause I don't see why you'd unvote someone you clearly thought was scum. Your explanation for that is you wanted to do some rereading and milk the day which I can maybe understand but you were clearly ok with the day ending wich I think conflicts with you wanting more time to read. What exactly were you evaluating?


In post 5615, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 5610, Nero Cain wrote:


Also please start explaining how any of this shit you want to discuss but never even bother looking in my filter for is alignment indicative at all?

I'm an eternal optimist. Like I really don't think you are town and I'm hoping that our arguments will help convince Thor and whomever else doubts you are scum that you are scum.


Ah
so while you are not actually arguing or stating that I am scum or the th9ings you mention are alignment indicative,
you are just eternally optimistic, that just the argument itself will help convince them.
AKA a hail mary?

If you have nothing else then that is playing the game i suppose.

yes, I'm clearly not calling you scum. :facepalm:

I thnk 'm playing the game just fine but also poking holes in your play and watching you selectively respond kinda makes me laugh but yes, it is my hope that all these dumbos start seeing your play as scummy as I do.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5618 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:23 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

:igmeou: <----my face after learning that DGB replaced into a game with hoods after making a big fuss about games with hoods.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #5619 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:13 pm

Post by DrippingGoofball »

In post 5618, Nero Cain wrote::igmeou: <----my face after learning that DGB replaced into a game with hoods after making a big fuss about games with hoods.


KILL ME NOW

LOL

These hoods are everywhere

Like a plague
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Post Post #5620 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:17 pm

Post by DrippingGoofball »

What is the case on Josh/Pine? The putting off the game by Pine is really scummy.
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.

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Post Post #5621 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:41 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5611, Thor665 wrote:2. Why do I do anything? I will admit I've been selling Flubber quite a bit while voting Pine. Really that's up to you to interpret, because I see no need to explain it beyond admission of the reality in front of you.


Thors (first vote on the wagon.) case appears not to exist.

I have lots of stuff, (most or all of it relates to garmr a former holder of the slot.) ->
larger version

although it got some votes, not a lot people liked that at the time
In post 3841, Aegor wrote:
Votecount 2.10


[5]
Thor665:
goodmorning, Izariael, reinoe, Flubbernugget, Garmr
[4]
Garmr:
Scripten, AxleGreaser, Slandaar, Shiro
[2]
Flubbernugget:
Nero Cain, The Fonz
[1]
Boonskiies:
T S O
[1]
davesaz:
TierShift
[1]
goodmorning:
Thor665
[1]
reinoe:
Boonskiies

[2]
Not Voting:
beastcharizard, davesaz

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Day 2 deadline:
(expired on 2014-11-19 18:27:52)

Mod Notes

Searching for replacements for T S O and Garmr -- TELL YOUR FRIENDS


An opinion from fresh eyes would not hurt.

If you are town don't be overly concerned about survival, my best guess is it is at (6T + 2 maf _+ 2 WW)
and if you run the scenarios in your head towns screwed unless the lynch scum every day and get lucky.
So as town simply not getting lynched is not enough.
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Post Post #5622 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:53 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 5617, Nero Cain wrote:I know that you are ESL but that's a question mark which means its a question. You can pay me later for the English lesson. :good:

(2)But to be honest I DID take it as you maybe doubting your scumread on him 'cause I don't see why you'd unvote someone you clearly thought was scum.


So your suggest you give me an english lesson, when in fact my English comprehension was just fine and read that you were indeed claiming that while putting it as question?
And your ESL claim is bollocks (somewhere at least bit in jest: i have claimed I found out code(c++) was my native language even thought I learned English first.)
but your derision instead of scum hunting is noted.

Well that is because you falsely claim/believe I did not scum read Reinoe(was protecting him). I unvoted Beast so as to indicate to town, unequivocally, I was cool with a Reinoe lynch even though I preferred a Beast one.. for the reasons stated.

So it is real easy to unvote your scum read when the alternate wagon is also in your opinion highly likely to be on scum. The difference was i claimed lynching the probable WW was better plan than lynching the probable mafia. Other people did not buy that argument. I decided that if they had reasons for why not, it was perhaps best no to make them explain them to the scum teams, as the reasons would involve second guessing the scum nk strategies. i had been second guessing the scum nk strategies, but i had been careful what I said.

Again are you at any point going to explain how any of your question is alignment indicative... or are you just hoping we dont lynch Pine today?

What is your opinion on the Pine Lynch?
My previous cases on Pine?
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Post Post #5623 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:48 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 5619, DrippingGoofball wrote:KILL ME NOW

vote:dgb
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Nero Cain
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Post Post #5624 (ISO) » Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:44 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 5622, AxleGreaser wrote:I unvoted Beast so as to indicate to town, unequivocally, I was cool with a Reinoe lynch even though I preferred a Beast one.. for the reasons stated.

yeah I don't think unvoting your preferred lynch makes any sense. Now I could maybe buy the whole "well I wanted time to reread stuff" but then you were pretty clearly okay with ending the day.



In post 5622, AxleGreaser wrote:Again are you at any point going to explain how any of your question is alignment indicative... or are you just hoping we dont lynch Pine today?

I think my intent is clear....I'm pointing out the your play isn't town motivated. Regardless of your "justification" I don't particularly believe that you wanting to lynch wolves over mafia is town motivated. I don't think you unvoting Beast to "let town know I was cool with a Ren" lynch makes
much
any kind of sense. I'll be blunt here: I think you were afraid to be on the Beast wagon if he flipped. Your reads remaining static after his flip seems odd to me. Both my questions about VCA and "what am I not analyzing?" were to see if you could back that up.

You ARE correct that I'd prefer not Pine today since I think he's atleast 50% town. Iz/DGB or Flub are the way to go. (Since we aparently aren't lynching you.)



What is your opinion on the Pine Lynch?
My previous cases on Pine?

meh and meh
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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