NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

[AxleGreaser]

I do have vague recollection that perhaps nero earlier had way less idea how many scum there were.
but hey not going back and checking his ISo seems to be nero thing to do so perhaps i wont either. (turn about = fair play, and all that jazz)

[AxleGreaser]

Who do you think are the other three scum and why, Axle?

Err

I have no intention of going to look through your iso but I'm positive that you did say that.

Do you still have no intention of actually playing the game and backup your claims about the one read you are voting?

[AxleGreaser]

Are you sure axle is town

I am. Want to talk to me about it?

I am not liking talking to Nero, because
a) rest of town is active (AKA: either know who scum is or gave up caring.) (adding to the gak wont help with the caring)
b) if we get to a LYLO where town has chance of winning scum not knowing everything that everybody thinks makes setting up a patsy harder.
c) 5462 nero has no intention of actually playing the game and justifying his claims against what i actually said

I have no intention of going to look through your iso but I'm positive that you did say that.

he has no interest or desire to find out his "claimed" (I say fake) memory of what I said is wrong. There is no point in saying more(same) things again and him not go back and read those either. And that about the scummiest stance i have ever seen taken by anyone ever. I mean after all if hes is right, then hes cauhgt me and I am scum... but nope he doesnt want to.... yeah right. Look up the sky, is it a bird, is it a plane no its santa in leer jet. AKA in the aus vernacular. pull the other leg it plays jingle bells.

[AxleGreaser]

Holy shit slandar is axel now

@mod you said this wasn't a bastard game

oops

[AxleGreaser]

Holy shit slandar is axel now

@mod you said this wasn't a bastard game

So yeah I can hear how people who dont know what my scum game is like, now, know I am town.

[AxleGreaser]

What I said in full (go check...)

Are you sure axle is town

I am. Want to talk to me about it?

I am not liking talking to Nero, because
a) rest of town is active (AKA: either know who scum is or gave up caring.) (adding to the gak wont help with the caring)
b) if we get to a LYLO where town has chance of winning scum not knowing everything that everybody thinks makes setting up a patsy harder.
c) 5462 nero has no intention of actually playing the game and justifying his claims against what i actually said

I have no intention of going to look through your iso but I'm positive that you did say that.

he has no interest or desire to find out his "claimed" (I say fake) memory of what I said is wrong. There is no point in saying more(same) things again and him not go back and read those either. And that about the scummiest stance i have ever seen taken by anyone ever. I mean after all if hes is right, then hes cauhgt me and I am scum... but nope he doesnt want to.... yeah right. Look up the sky, is it a bird, is it a plane no its santa in leer jet. AKA in the aus vernacular. pull the other leg it plays jingle bells.

What Nero claims to have quoted. FFS.

I am not liking talking to Nero, because I'm scum and I need allies to help win. If I start calling folks scum then I alienate potential allies. Why would I do that as scum?

He'd also be responsible for his reads and he doesn't want to be held responsible for anything.

Stuck out... stuff I never said...

[AxleGreaser]

I have no intention of going to look through your iso but I'm positive that you did say that.

I suppose you are (or rather pretend you are not aware) that if you did read my filter then this question...

Who do you think are the other three scum and why, Axle?

has in effect already been answered...

I tunnelled TSO all fo D1. (I have said given the thread since, I cant see him getting lynched as for enough people to back flip their d1 one reads... at least some of them would look scummier to me.) (So while i still have had not much reason at all to chnage my mind I cant get him lynched.)

I started each day recently voting for the garmr/JoshB slot, with reasons.

As Beast didnt flip scum, then all the pre flip associative stuff I thought I was seeing was not there.

And so yeah the fourth read is little hard. Yet you claim (by lying that) I am ducking the issue.

Truth of the matter is you did this

Just based on votes alone.
.....

Which very specifically are not your actual reads (anytime you want) as it is by vote count analysis alone.
So you have not stated you position.

You have studiously, avoided analysisng the actual thread,
as analysing your scum buddies ISO, and either soft defending him (but not too hard) or soft bussing him but not get him lynched is way harder than doing a superficial mechanistic

Just based on votes alone.

So yeah the person not engaging with the thread in meaningful way, for fear of associative tells is you.

[AxleGreaser]

Spoiler: does it make it more impressive when you quote yourself?

I have no intention of going to look through your iso but I'm positive that you did say that.

I suppose you are (or rather pretend you are not aware) that if you did read my filter then this question...

Who do you think are the other three scum and why, Axle?

has in effect already been answered...

I tunnelled TSO all fo D1. (I have said given the thread since, I cant see him getting lynched as for enough people to back flip their d1 one reads... at least some of them would look scummier to me.) (So while i still have had not much reason at all to chnage my mind I cant get him lynched.)

I started each day recently voting for the garmr/JoshB slot, with reasons.

As Beast didnt flip scum, then all the pre flip associative stuff I thought I was seeing was not there.

And so yeah the fourth read is little hard. Yet you claim (by lying that) I am ducking the issue.

Truth of the matter is you did this

Just based on votes alone.
.....

Which very specifically are not your actual reads (anytime you want) as it is by vote count analysis alone.
So you have not stated you position.

You have studiously, avoided analysisng the actual thread,
as analysing your scum buddies ISO, and either soft defending him (but not too hard) or soft bussing him but not get him lynched is way harder than doing a superficial mechanistic

Just based on votes alone.

So yeah the person not engaging with the thread in meaningful way, for fear of associative tells is you.

[AxleGreaser]

Spoiler: how about when you quote yourself rally often to the point on sillyness?

[spoiler2=does it make it more impressive when you quote yourself?]

I have no intention of going to look through your iso but I'm positive that you did say that.

I suppose you are (or rather pretend you are not aware) that if you did read my filter then this question...

Who do you think are the other three scum and why, Axle?

has in effect already been answered...

I tunnelled TSO all fo D1. (I have said given the thread since, I cant see him getting lynched as for enough people to back flip their d1 one reads... at least some of them would look scummier to me.) (So while i still have had not much reason at all to chnage my mind I cant get him lynched.)

I started each day recently voting for the garmr/JoshB slot, with reasons.

As Beast didnt flip scum, then all the pre flip associative stuff I thought I was seeing was not there.

And so yeah the fourth read is little hard. Yet you claim (by lying that) I am ducking the issue.

Truth of the matter is you did this

Just based on votes alone.
.....

Which very specifically are not your actual reads (anytime you want) as it is by vote count analysis alone.
So you have not stated you position.

You have studiously, avoided analysisng the actual thread,
as analysing your scum buddies ISO, and either soft defending him (but not too hard) or soft bussing him but not get him lynched is way harder than doing a superficial mechanistic

Just based on votes alone.

So yeah the person not engaging with the thread in meaningful way, for fear of associative tells is you.

[/spoiler2]

[AxleGreaser]

So axle you tell us you've stated your reads implicitly but then complain when we interperet your reads wrong?

pretty sure I complained about this as way to claim to be playing as town...

Who do you think are the other three scum and why, Axle?

Err

I have no intention of going to look through your iso but I'm positive that you did say that.

Do you still have no intention of actually playing the game and backup your claims about the one read you are voting?

do you think that is in anyway a way that town plays?

[AxleGreaser]

So axle you tell us you've stated your reads implicitly but then complain when

we

interperet your reads wrong?

also I cant remeber when iexactly did I complain that you had interpreted my reads wrong?

AKA what is this *

we

* batman.

[AxleGreaser]

It could well be a multiball towntell for me

Uggh
Not anymore, after now... (see muffins law, from ealrier.)

Spoiler:

once more this time with feeling

Uggggggggh

[AxleGreaser]

I think there is a good chance that there is scum in my hood after all. GM made it quite apparent that she was pr there by saying how there is no way beast is flipping cop.

GM also sad that in the main thread.
As I recall it. GM was sure in the main thread that both claims were fake. So not only a power role but one that GM thought ruled out another investigative role.

If say she got a move from you at n2, it would be quite incriminating

and given the other stuff that leaked I would expect to be able to find signs in the thread that that happened. And not signs that GM had been outmaneuvered twice...
which will have been way clearer to scum if they had just RB'd GM and Thor had claimed to have done that N1...

So I don't think it was special information from your hood that got GM shot.

However MB probably means 3M+3WW with (2+2 still alive) 44% chance of scum in the people not you(4/9+1), more if you think you have good POE reads.

[AxleGreaser]

Other than frustration (not playing) do you have reasons for voting Josh_B.
(I had/have reasons but theye didnt seem to fly last time i ran with them...)
whats up?

[AxleGreaser]

^^^^^ @THor

[AxleGreaser]

The whole argument with Muffin was for you to not use wordplay as a case. That's a pretty good stance to argue. His flip confirms the motivation behind his stance.

Hi, Ok I think i now see what your point is, and i dont like it. I dont like it so much i want to explain to you and have you not like it. (Do note i may well be offering you a different point instead.)

Thor posted stuff indicating that Shiro was scummy, (it was something to do with how many times he mentioned/referenced made thoughts about who). it was BS. it was bad mafia.

Spoiler: why it was bad...

Thors push on Shiro, was overly pedantic an assumed a connection between how >much< you talk about someone and who you vote for.. (That may be >A bit< true if you are in for the whole game but Shiro replaced in.)
Do note you can measure how _much_ by pretty much any metric you like and it is bad.(not alignment indicative)
POE gets you who to vote, as does finding scum tells in the guy you talked to or about(or watched). So there is no real need for Shiro to have talked much about who Shiro voted, especially given the time of day Shiro joined the game as a replacement.
Also, interacting with other players (eg me/Axle) can generate mentions/thoughts/pronouns/names ... or any other silly metric
(and it did) I asked a question shiro answered(responsively...)
The ONLY alignment relevant things are why people(Shiro in this case) did stuff. or perhaps how. Was Shiro nervous shifty, trying to vote and lynch PeregrineV but dodge responsibility (distance from a known to be towny lynch) ... Blah neither Muffin nor Thor were addressing that.

Spoiler: why it might not have been bad

Frankly I assumed neither were playing bad and both were hamming it up, to make noise (busy work) around Shiro to see how Shiro (and everyone else) reacted.
The reason for muffins flip however shows me muffin was serious, which makes me go :O
However Shiro was new replacement player, pushing Shiro >>>even if badly<<< was good thing to do.

Indeed
If thor had not done that, I might well have instead of defending Shiro...
pushed a bit badly/softly to find out if Shiro is scum..
then either pushing for real := to lynch
or backing off
AKA bad pushes can be quite _good_ reaction tests (as opposed to crack cocaine variety of reaction tests,see previous sig: about silly gambits)

Muffin ignored that it was BS and or playing bad and >>>bought into<<< debating Thor on semantics...
and frankly TBMK no one ever chose the actual 'best' metric which would have been to count sentences (thoughts) on the topic of each player... and (even thats bad as long run on sentences such as this one contain multiple thoughts that were all joined together with joining words. (so no counting actual thought is counting thoughts and the counting metrics are and were all crap.

So if you want argue Thors, push on Shiro was bad. Argue it in an alignment indicative way.

Are you arguing Thor was at that time:
actually driving to get Shiro mislynched?
distancing from Shiro with a shit wagon that would never fly?
Feeling around to find out which mislynch wouldn't get defended by some dumb towny? (found dave eventually?)
... some other scummy purpose.

Scum hunting by pushing low hanging fruit badly to see how the fruit and any vultures reacted? (Thats what I watched and looked for...)

@Thor

. Feel free to instead argue that your push on Shiro and the reasons for it were actually good

and

alignment indicative.

[AxleGreaser]

EBWOP Oh my cookie cutter sig is still current.
"Silly (cookie cutter) gambits: The crack cocaine of playing mafia."
"Silly (non cookie cutter) gambits: The designer drug of playing mafia." : Axle
I could add ... Bad metric's are Bad. but no silly gambits are a special kind of bad

[AxleGreaser]

@SHiro

I think the chances that scum waste three shots on a player are fairly slim.

given the alternative is shoot three guys each with a vote, or take the risk that when leaving boon alive until endgame and wondering if this will happen

We're getting to the point where I believe I'm going to actually start becoming a strong town player in this game.

I actually start to become a pretty strong town player mid-game.

so no I think, even if they had already wasted a shot n1,
unless they believed he was actually a 1 shot BP, who fake soft claimed PR to get shot then fake claimed 2 shot so as to not get shot... when he really should have at most claimed 1 shot BP, if he was still trying to draw nk's)

so yeah WIFOM is deep.

best idea is just play mafia and try to read the guys alignment the old fashioned way.

[AxleGreaser]

The whole argument with Muffin was for you to not use wordplay as a case.

Muffin appears interested in exact words

Your exact words were "look how many thoughts were posted about Anen". I interpreted that as "number of mentions". Obviously you felt that that is the wrong interpretation. Fine.

here is muffin not objecting to Thor criteria or how carefully he chose the words, or tightly interpreted them

Spoiler: This is muffin buying into the idea that counting any of the things usggested was important at all

I exhausted every definition in my head for "how many thoughts were posted about a player". I see no other way to count "thoughts posted about" someone. You shot down the only two ways I could think of to quantify them. So what else should I have assumed but quality? You were the one that used the phrase "degree of mentions" as if that means anything concrete at all.

Here's how this works. You have two options and two only:

Post your own list/comparison of the number of Shiro's thoughts posted about Anen vs. thoughts about Pere, since you seem to disagree so strongly with mine. It should be easy for you to do.

or

STFU

I dont see Muffin saying dont use word play as case. Thread is big: show me where you see it?

[AxleGreaser]

Why would I want to do that?

reasons?
# Well you never lose arguments, you might want to find out what is like?
# Ego?
# ...

However, as I am currently in some effect batting away Flubber, it would seem silly. BUT as my post 5528 also listed ways that a mafia player could try to interpret your push on Shiro as scum motivated, you might want to tie your self to the anchor that counting gak was alignment indicative? bascially, I Got no idea, but then I got no idea why muffin got muffin mod killed, (up until that happened I thought it was all just beer and skittles,) so i have evidence there are lots things I dont know...

Besides I thought it would be polite to mention you as

I feel like we're getting somewhere now.

I seem to be butting in, when you finally started getting somewhere..
(and i have poked things as I'd like them go somewhere just little different and see if thats useful)

Also just because I offered does not mean I think you should, it would be wise to as any alignment, or ...

[AxleGreaser]

@Flub

So flub, hopefully I wasn't wasting your time.
Please read 5528 and tell what that means for your current push on Thor.

@mod: VC is all kinds of wrong, up to and including majority size.

[AxleGreaser]

@mod oops too late sry

I believe everything was fixed; let me know if not.

[AxleGreaser]

I dont know if it was more clear in the hood and you cant quote that. What I noticed (and scum could have<

hmmm that makes me think

>) was.

As for what made me rethink I checked him out and realised he kind of stayed at the sidelines yesterday and although

some say

she made it apparent here as well I only realised she is investigating PR in our hood and that made me think that our hood has scum. Between Boon and Iz I think it would be Iz.

yeah I didn't link where
4824 4839 both were strong statements that seemed too strong to be based on the same information I had. While even at that time I didnt like either claim GM's statements had a kind of certainty to it.
That would be explained by GM having an unstated CC, of investigative role (I thought cop, I didnt think of tracker). It would also explain GMs

Thor lynch is definitely happening, though probably not today.

Which I took it to be when GM gets her guilty check/or GM flips.

[AxleGreaser]

@Pine .... Hi welcome to the party(literally)... Shiro thinks you ought be the new guest of honor...
I have had a scum read on your slot too....(I think I still do) (Threads big... I will see if i can give you the low down on that and why I am currently voting Nero a little later)

[AxleGreaser]

@Flub

So flub, hopefully I wasn't wasting your time.
Please read 5528 and tell what that means for your current push on Thor.

@mod: VC is all kinds of wrong, up to and including majority size.

You are wasting my time because you seem to not understand the concept of a gunsmith.

Well it is true i have not played with one before and i just checked and yes the understanding of gunsmith i got when they were mentioned earlier was accurate.
So what exactly does gunsmith have to with, muffins 'case'. or my post.

We have two flipped investigative town power roles... are you suggesting there would be another one?

or are you just wasting my time..

[AxleGreaser]

I've been rereading the thread... (specifically my own ISO) found someone i want lynched the most

garmr

/Josh_b

/Pine

VOTE: Pine

not sure why I stopped, i could probably work it out. (

prefer not to as I think it involved Axle being pissy/whiny/frustrated

)

[AxleGreaser]

considering how eerily total silent the rest of the game went I suppose everyone else is as well.

considering that most of them are voting someone else that seems little odd, that they would wait for Pine before driving their own wagons
but it is what it is.
perhaps they are voting one person but in reality expecting someone else to get lynched.

[AxleGreaser]

Is TSO even in this game?

If he is scum why should he even bother playing?
Thread gave him a Carte Blanche do nothing pass some time ago.

[AxleGreaser]

Random observation - Iz and Script don't look like buddies to me.
Discuss.

You can't use that 'cause Axle is

against VCA.

I mean how can you guys actually think Axle is not mafia after his rubbish of a "reason" for not wanting to lynch Ren?

(truck out the baseless junk)

Bullshit. Stop making stuff up. (well actually as I think you are scum go right ahead?)

I assume you are misrepresenting what i said here(in spoiler), as you never actually which post I said what you claim I said...

Spoiler: what I actually said

[...deletia..]
Truth of the matter is you did this

Just based on votes alone.
.....

Which very specifically are not your actual reads (anytime you want) as it is by vote count analysis alone.
So you have not stated you position.

You have studiously, avoided analysisng the actual thread,
as analysing your scum buddies ISO, and either soft defending him (but not too hard) or soft bussing him but not get him lynched is way harder than doing a superficial mechanistic

Just based on votes alone.

So yeah the person not engaging with the thread in meaningful way, for fear of associative tells is you.

and yes I claim you doing VCA alone is bad.
I claim it gave you room to retract that and analyse more stuff and get different answers anytime you liked.

Also are you seriously claiming, you think I am on the same team as Ren? Even after the stuff shortly before and after 4636
there will be reason beast checked Ren, and it wouldn't surprise me if that was good part of it.

LOL.

@thread if you guys really cant come at lynching Pine/

JoshB/Garmr

I could put together the actual case against Nero.

BUT

you would have to get your act together and not wait until deadline forces your hand.

[AxleGreaser]

oh so we are back to the "I never said that unless you quote me" thing.

No we are at I have no idea what you are actually saying if you dont say it.

You claimed I was against VCA which I said was made up bullshit which is why i crossed it out.

I quoted something I did say. You still have not shown where I said i was against VCA.

[AxleGreaser]

Yeah this is totes junk bro.

Its totes not junk bro..

oooh logical impasse what now.

I was pushing on Scripten yet you still think I'm WW. Why the diffrence?

Would you like to point out where your push on scripten was such that it does not seem sensible as scum partners.
I juts went and looked and didnt find it.

[AxleGreaser]

If this wasn't multiball and Nero still had his vote on Iz there is no way I'd be voting Iz. I hate multiball.

VOTE: Iz

I've explained my reasoning toward Iz since the beginning of Day 2.

Hi, please check that i have the right reasoning, that i found near the start of D2.

Anenien was very prominent in our neighborhood last night, along with Iz. I claimed that I have a protective role in the thread, and also asked who people thought would be worth protecting.

I did not claim any role, nor will I be doing so toDay

. The way I said it made it seem like I had a limited use, which Iz pointed out in the thread also. I feel Iz thought he could get some town cred by not killing me after I claimed that I was a protective role, since he most likely thought I was just some noob not knowing what to do, and since he thought I slipped that I had a limited power role, he'd be fine not killing me. I expect there to be at least one scum in my neighborhood, since we are the biggest neighborhood, and Anen is now dead. Goodmorning, Shiro, and Iz have at least one scum there, and I'm banking on it being Iz.

Is that correct?

[AxleGreaser]

You mean other than the fact that he's blatantly trying to lynch one faction over the other? And his reason for doing so is quite silly.

He's worried that Beast will be seen as town and not shot at night.

bullshit
read the thread.

that was not just the reason... (that was an explanation of why it was a plausible scum play)
hence it was involved, but not just the reason.

you seem to have left out, the primary reason, which was making sure the scum teams had high motivation to shoot at one another. (at 3:1 that would have been so)
are you not reading or incapable, or purposefully mis characterizing what I said.

[AxleGreaser]

not that "lets lynch a werewolf so they have more motivation to shoot at mafia!" makes a ton of sense either...

Hmm we are playing mafia that you claim it doesn't make sense to you, woild be perhaps becuase you didn't read (or claim not to have/ or claim not understand)the explanation back then of why.

If I'm misrepping your reasoning for wanting to lynch the wolves why did you not take offense then?

Lets see whether or not you are misrepping what i said is fact determined by examining what i said and what you represented.
Whether or not i respond to any one particular misrep depends on a variety of things. (most of which are win con related, sometimes I just get pissed off<but its only a game so i try not too>.)

I am pretty sure that while many of your posts could have been responded to and rebutted, I dont hold them or your views in high enough regard to do so. Sorry?
Well I would be sorry except you set the standard for my required civility to you, with

I have no intention of going to look through your iso but I'm positive that you did say that.

which means that when you post yet more made up crap i can just assume you also still have not bothered going back through the thread and are relying on your demonstrated to be wrong memory of what happened.
I also can assume the thread and the rest of town will also notice that, as i pointed it out rather bit...
So either you are just making noise for effect, and will be ignored, or town deserves what it gets, if listen to your claims, knowing you claim not to have read thread, nor been willing to back up your previous false claims.

Demonstrating that over and over again is now for me just noise.
So I am concentrating on lynching a scum i believe i can get lynched.

At present I expect it is 2v2, so lynching any scum from any faction is fine with me.

[AxleGreaser]

Can you show me your post that talks about you wanting to kill Beast so the wolves have more motivation to shoot mafia?

I wish to point out, you are explicitly claiming to know the reasons I do things are bad/shit/whatever
<Nero: not that "lets lynch a werewolf so they have more motivation to shoot at mafia!" makes a ton of sense either...>

yet here you explicitly state you dont know where I did in fact explain that.
So you have in effect claimed you just made it up without even knowing what I actually said?

Spoiler: My previously stated reasoning fro why Lynchign a WW was betetr for town than lynching a mafia. yesterday

I believe this was the first place I described it.

Right now I consider Beast more likely to flip scum, specifically WW. At 3v1 I expect the 1 WW to shoot at Mafia as they are the WWs biggest threat.
(if maf get to effectively control the lynch and their shot the one WW is basically doomed)
As that one WW can still shoot one maf a night, mafia need to finish of the WW team.

and if I had only said it once it might be reasonable for town player trying to figure the game out to miss it.

(1)If I thought Beast and Reinoe were exactly equally likely to flip scum, id still lynch the one I thought was from the short stacked (currently prob 3:2) team. I have never played multiball nor read enough mutliball(any?) scum QTs to be sure but I think one team being at 3:1, gives lots of reason for the 1 team to shoot at the 3. because the one team is hooting at them the 3 team also has incentive to end that. From the 3 scum teams point of view yes townies are dangerous as they have votes and are trying to lynch them. The 1 one left in the other team is no effectively a known vig(as he has one nk and is gunning for them)

I prefer that to the situation with 2v2 as I believe it is possible the scum teams may not be quite as likely to shoot at one another in that case.

and then for good measure I said it third time

(3) At the end of the game for scum to win they really want to become a voting majority. At 3v1 the short stacked scum team knwo their only chance of victory is to kill all the other team before they simply lynch him, with thread presence or actual majority. The one man WW!scum would have to have rocks in his head not to be shooting at the mafias. As he is shooting at them, he is effectively known to exist (unlimited shot)vig, The mafia team has to have rocks in their heads not to be shooting at him, and merely hoping the WW's shots actually hit Town.
This may even still theoretically apply at this point with 2v2 but I don't know the scum will see what they really ought be doing to maximize their scum teams chances of winning(aka eliminate the rival who has both a gun and a vote).

But hey I agree in MB the scum teams dont want the other one ended too early, as the game gets longer inf the nks go down too soon. However at 3v1 I pretty sure its rocks in the head or shoot at the other guys time.

and nope while i can do that sort of thing, (and i just did)
given this

I have no intention of going to look through your iso but I'm positive that you did say that.

I have no desire nor reason to pander, to your wishes for me to shit up the thread by restating things not all that relevant anymore. If you want q
So you can make your baseless claims, and I will trash whichever of them I please.

[AxleGreaser]

that previous post was being edited near the end when it submitted.

Pretty sure i was trying to add
I have no desire nor reason to pander, to your wishes for me to shit up the thread by restating things not all that relevant anymore. If you want quotes you can go find them yourself.
So you can continue to make your baseless claims, and I will trash whichever of them I please, takes my fancy. (I am a bit in holiday mode, and my reasons are already in the thread...)

[AxleGreaser]

The only reason the boons wagon died is because of his activity. Why did everyone lose interest?

I didn't have any as i didn't like the cases.
I am however currently asking a question, I want an answer to.
I believe boon is likely to remain a highish risk lynch and we _>really<_ want to lynch 1 scum today, at 2v1 scum have an game theoretic imperative too shoot at one another.
The one scum team can pretty much only win if he shoots both of the other team, or gets them lynched.

Also garmr wagon is terrible

Want to explain what bit you don't like about it?

preemptive guess. Even, If scummy people are voting it, they can be on the other team...
Indeed under number of scenarios (depending on how exposed or not a scum team thinks they are) driving to lynch the other team then shoot he last one tonight, may be a good MB play.

[AxleGreaser]

Recent complete games show garmr as playing to his town meta here. Josh didn't get the opportunity to come up with some insane lynchworthy theory and he's too easy to scumpaint. Pine idk.

So which specific Garmnr games were you seeing.

And what about those games match what I saw here.

D1. Garmr, was "holy over sensitive soul" when a PBP list poster mentioned him in passing and criticised his points on boon but provided others.
FGarmr who was not seriously pushing boon at the time (go look how wishy washy he was...)
Later says that Anen was chainsawuing or later wking Boon. Neither make much sense nor look like what happened.

On a later day.
I was pushing him and he decides 85% I am scum and wants to 1v1 me. Then he gets better read and swaps onto them.. (woot Garmr has two reads >85%)
he then (IIRC) swaps onto Thor....
I call bullshit. he replaces out. (from memory perhaps the orders little screwed)

Exactly how does someone so sure they caught so many scum.. and not just making stuff up. Decide to replace out?

I tried min 1621 (real quickly), and it didnt to me look much like what i saw here.
I will have other stuff, I want to see meta substantiation of, but something would be start.

[AxleGreaser]

Exactly how does someone so sure they caught so many scum.. and not just making stuff up. Decide to replace out?

no idea what you are neutral about...

i'm town but I really don't want to play this game and

I can't be bothered hunting.

SO going to let you guys if you want to mislynch me or for me to replace out.

(Axle Bolded for Emph.)
Where is the bothered to scum hunt come into it,
he was "1v1" sure that I was scum, which he set at 85%, but it is still 1v1 sure. (even it was just boasting for his ego...)

Thor is scummier than Boonskiies, who is scummier than me(Axle) who you already set at 85% likely to flip scum (AKA really 1v1 sure)

So why hunting?
he just caught 3 scum according to towny!him.

BS.

[AxleGreaser]

You find that to be a valid and fair tell?

I found his state of mind to be inconsistent with someone who claims to have just caught 3 scum.

So why are you voting him?

[AxleGreaser]

Me not agreeing with you and thinking that something is not town motivated=//=me knowing you said that. I didn't see that and/or forgot.

which is something, I your scum read said three times... and you didnt see or remeber any of them,
and yet claim to scum read my reasoning..
yeah right.


and while we are talking about you just not reading stuff....

yet NOTHING has changed for him.

and in truth what changed? (well we could always look at my posts that Nero conveniently forgets to do ... again...)

As Beast didnt flip scum, then all the pre flip associative stuff I thought I was seeing was not there.

He is still scumreading me (but as a wolf) and two lurksacks. And one of those two lurksacks were being voted by mafia so it makes me think TSO is less likely to be mafia. So to me it has an air of not mafia hunting.

So my scum reads, are the same scums reads i had before they ran away and started lurking. Gee whizz I wonder why that would be? and as those were the rads i had before I thought i had worked out beast was scum, which ones really ought stay.

So rather than just "saying to me" your play seems scummy, I say it is scummy.

[AxleGreaser]

but also saying "As Beast didnt flip scum, then all the pre flip associative stuff I thought I was seeing was not there." Is actually proving my point that nothing changed for you.

Err bullshit.
The stuff I was getting from thinking I had caught beast as WW was re evaluated.
I suggest you define what on earth nothing means for you as the above is explicitly stating what did change. and you define something the thing that changed as nothing. WTF.

You might just as logically claim it proves your point that I am a yeti.

Can you remind me why you unvoted Beast.

Why did you not vote Ren when you unvoted Beast?

Well I would just direct you the thread but you already both claimed and demonstrated you dont read it or claim not to remember it...
and in truth, even though it is right there where i unvoted him) you need to read little between the lines

(2)and finally I really would prefer to lynch another WW over a maf today.

(1)however it is time

UNVOTE: Beast

Note I really might vote him again, (1)but I reckon I have as much good info as i can reasonably expect to get. Time to re-evaluate the day from scratch.

(1) yes shock horror on day when the claimed to be town cop had claimed really early for no particularly good reason, I had tried to milk the day for other associative tells and make an actual contested wagon out of it.

Thus worst case if iw as wrong and Beast was town, we at least had stuff happen. Second the only way to actually find out if Beast was town cop was to push him about it. Unfortunately I didn't get enough ring of truth to sway me. But fortunately enough other townies did.

(2) and look here is me consistently indicating a desire to lynch the short stacked faction yet again...

and so yes this "it is time" gave the green light to any towny standing around with the hands in their pockets giving me space to play, that the day could end the day.

and no while i did believe it quite likely both would flip scum, I did believe it better to flip the guy i believed was a WW rather than a mafia, for the reasons already now repeated many times in the thread.

Also please start explaining how any of this shit you want to discuss but never even bother looking in my filter for is alignment indicative at all?

[AxleGreaser]

because I see no need to explain it beyond admission of the reality in front of you.

[AxleGreaser]

So you started to doubt your scumread on Beast?

as that is not what the words say... not sure why you are claiming it is.

[AxleGreaser]

Also please start explaining how any of this shit you want to discuss but never even bother looking in my filter for is alignment indicative at all?

I'm an eternal optimist. Like I really don't think you are town and I'm hoping that our arguments will help convince Thor and whomever else doubts you are scum that you are scum.

Ah
so while you are not actually arguing or stating that I am scum or the th9ings you mention are alignment indicative,
you are just eternally optimistic, that just the argument itself will help convince them.
AKA a hail mary?

If you have nothing else then that is playing the game i suppose.

[AxleGreaser]

2. Why do I do anything? I will admit I've been selling Flubber quite a bit while voting Pine. Really that's up to you to interpret, because I see no need to explain it beyond admission of the reality in front of you.

Thors (first vote on the wagon.) case appears not to exist.

I have lots of stuff, (most or all of it relates to garmr a former holder of the slot.) 3274 -> 3229
larger version 3318

although it got some votes, not a lot people liked that at the time

Votecount 2.10

[5]

Thor665:

goodmorning, Izariael, reinoe, Flubbernugget, Garmr
[4]

Garmr:

Scripten, AxleGreaser, Slandaar, Shiro
[2]

Flubbernugget:

Nero Cain, The Fonz
[1]

Boonskiies:

T S O
[1]

davesaz:

TierShift
[1]

goodmorning:

Thor665
[1]

reinoe:

Boonskiies

[2]

Not Voting:

beastcharizard, davesaz

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Day 2 deadline:

(expired on 2014-11-19 18:27:52)

Mod Notes

Searching for replacements for T S O and Garmr -- TELL YOUR FRIENDS

An opinion from fresh eyes would not hurt.

If you are town don't be overly concerned about survival, my best guess is it is at (6T + 2 maf _+ 2 WW)
and if you run the scenarios in your head towns screwed unless the lynch scum every day and get lucky.
So as town simply not getting lynched is not enough.

[AxleGreaser]

I know that you are ESL but that's a question mark which means its a question. You can pay me later for the English lesson.

(2)But to be honest I DID take it as you maybe doubting your scumread on him 'cause I don't see why you'd unvote someone you clearly thought was scum.

So your suggest you give me an english lesson, when in fact my English comprehension was just fine and read that you were indeed claiming that while putting it as question?
And your ESL claim is bollocks (somewhere at least bit in jest: i have claimed I found out code(c++) was my native language even thought I learned English first.)
but your derision instead of scum hunting is noted.

Well that is because you falsely claim/believe I did not scum read Reinoe(was protecting him). I unvoted Beast so as to indicate to town, unequivocally, I was cool with a Reinoe lynch even though I preferred a Beast one.. for the reasons stated.

So it is real easy to unvote your scum read when the alternate wagon is also in your opinion highly likely to be on scum. The difference was i claimed lynching the probable WW was better plan than lynching the probable mafia. Other people did not buy that argument. I decided that if they had reasons for why not, it was perhaps best no to make them explain them to the scum teams, as the reasons would involve second guessing the scum nk strategies. i had been second guessing the scum nk strategies, but i had been careful what I said.

Again are you at any point going to explain how any of your question is alignment indicative... or are you just hoping we dont lynch Pine today?

What is your opinion on the Pine Lynch?
My previous cases on Pine?

[AxleGreaser]

KILL ME NOW

vote:dgb

Freudian?

[AxleGreaser]

You claimed 1-shot what?

Claims: (from memory)<some harpy will turn up if I misremember something>

He claimed one shot JK.

GM a flipped claimed tracker tunneled (with really thin reasoning) Thor like a trojan. (from D1) so kinda obviously Thor was the intended track?
But Thor claimed JK and claimed to have JK'd GM and claimed that before GM flipped tracker.

So N2 Gm would have tracked Thor...? (trackers kinda only get get guilties by tracking to a kill)
(and on D3 GM said Thor had outmaneuvered him twice)<Which i take to mean GM probably got RB'd again.>

Then GM got shot. So my best guess is all we have is GMs suspicion on Thor, which was well short on reasons.

---------

Boon:
Boon soft claimed real early in D1 when not under much pressure. <hmmm>
Claimed his

role

(playing the way he was) would be major point of discussion D2.
<stuff happened in hood I never saw. bleh yuk +1>

On D2, Boon faffed around (read it yourself as I have question for boon pending...)
Then Boon claimed 2 shot BP who had been trying to draw an nk by hinting being a power role of various types.

One weird thing for me was garmr claiming boon was worried he would be shot again. As scum who shot boon were the only people who would know boon had been shot. Reads like a scum claim to me, but it garnered garmr almost no thread attention... weird.

--------

Beast replaced in, said he'd be awesome the next day.
faffed around trying lamely to get reinoe lynched, with fluff.
Then claimed cop, (appeared not to know what his own role did... Thought he was a faction cop, who got guilty not guilty) but he was a full cop.
I suspect GM thought the claim was bogus due to balance(GM tracker), the BS nature of it, and whatever ....
anyway in the end Reinoe got lynched and Best shot.
beast was a prime night cop... (so the game now has form for LOl roles, if one turns up later)

--------

Reinoe flipped even night RB.

[AxleGreaser]

@Boon

If this wasn't multiball and Nero still had his vote on Iz there is no way I'd be voting Iz. I hate multiball.

VOTE: Iz

I've explained my reasoning toward Iz since the beginning of Day 2.

Hi, please check that i have the right reasoning, that i found near the start of D2.

Anenien was very prominent in our neighborhood last night, along with Iz. I claimed that I have a protective role in the thread, and also asked who people thought would be worth protecting.

I did not claim any role, nor will I be doing so toDay

. The way I said it made it seem like I had a limited use, which Iz pointed out in the thread also. I feel Iz thought he could get some

town cred

by not killing me after I claimed that I was a protective role, since he most likely thought I was just some noob not knowing what to do, and since he thought I slipped that I had a limited power role, he'd be fine not killing me. I expect there to be at least one scum in my neighborhood, since we are the biggest neighborhood, and Anen is now dead. Goodmorning, Shiro, and Iz have at least one scum there, and I'm banking on it being Iz.

Is that correct?

So you are voting, Iz because he didnt kill you.. and he didnt do that for

town cred

[AxleGreaser]

NFI

[AxleGreaser]

So wait, there are two neighborhoods?

nope there were 3
a 3 man hood of PereV Thor and Egg existed. Now its just Thor talking to himself.

I might think its IIOA too(or a playstyle difference), but I am waiting to see.

for instance I put the P value of

If the neighborhoods have symmetry to them

at ??

So I am not sure whether that would move shiro up or down in my view.
Also not sure if that theory would mean that if I think Shiro and Boon are town should that mean I start believing DGF is scum.

@DGB
So just how likely is (If the neighborhoods have symmetry to them) in your view?

[AxleGreaser]

Axle, do you want to go first or do you want me to go first in tomorrows massclaim?

you expect to be alive?

[AxleGreaser]

yes 'cause if scum shoot me then any town worth their grain in salt will sheep me. And if I don't die then I'll lead this town to victory.

Now stop avoiding my question.

Its a bullshit question nothing to avoid.
I have not thought about mass claims tomorrow.

but even though you are a significant scum read that would not be the only criteria for choosing who went first.

I dont expect i would be asked by many people to go first. Well you and whose army...
So no I have no intention of talking about fictitious mass claim, until it happens.

[AxleGreaser]

Its not a bullshit question 'cause a massclaim tomorrow makes sense

and

if

thats true then

tomorrow

it will be a question, and today it is role fishing bullshit scummy question.

[AxleGreaser]

Asking you your stance on massclaim is rolefishing?

no my stance is [*you*] in this situation are currently role fishing.
and no I have no intention of discussing it or why.

[AxleGreaser]

I mean we could do it today but

I thought it was a better idea

to not give scum the rest of the setup today

This is itself role fishing.
But it also contains the basis of the argument that you should believe it to be role fishing.
You state it is better possibly a better idea not to do it today. (there is reason in your head for why that is today)

Fishing around for thinks, its bad idea today, will get you role fishing information on who is still a PR. Stop it.

or die by lynch today

[AxleGreaser]

Asking you your stance on massclaim is rolefishing?

Greaser is town leave him alone.

but is Nero?

[AxleGreaser]

UNVOTE: Pine

this needs thinking about

[AxleGreaser]

nope its good enough. (what was worrying me stopped a bit)
VOTE: Pine L-2

[AxleGreaser]

unlike Axle I don't have a "preference"

again with the misrep.

At 2v2 I don't either. I had preference for lynching into what i thought was the short stacked faction. AKA: duh.

Is everyone really sure they don't want to lynch Nero? (thats what I unvoted to reconsider)
as in lynch nero today
right now.

You are all so sure via whatever means (EG DGB's associative tells, that he cant be scum with Ren or Scrip) ?

meh

[AxleGreaser]

Pine is the bigger wagon, and I'm leading the push on that

well if by leading tyhe push you mnean first vote on the vca wagon then yes you are leading.

if meaning you are actively trying to get him to be the lynch of the day, I dont see that so much.

2. Why do I do anything? I will admit I've been selling Flubber quite a bit while voting Pine. Really that's up to you to interpret, because I see no need to explain it beyond admission of the reality in front of you.

[AxleGreaser]

I found his state of mind to be inconsistent with someone who claims to have just caught 3 scum.

So why are you voting him?

1. So is your argument based on the idea he was scum, was not having fun, and replaced out only for that? Because my perception was it was an availability based replace out, not an interest based replace out - no?

Not really but (for most people) any decision about whether or not you have time to play this game depends on how much fun you are having in it?

I found his state of mind to be inconsistent with someone who claims to have just caught 3 scum. His state of mind was also expressed within the game.
The "he thought he caught three scum was made up", he didn't really believe it.

[AxleGreaser]

thats what I unvoted to reconsider

So...you unvoted someone you thought was scum to consider voting me and then you "worried less"? Even if I was scum, why would me scum

make you doubt your scum read on Pine?

What made you stop worrying a bit.

struck out
No what I said.

Never said I doubted my scum read on Pine

Is everyone really sure they don't want to lynch Nero?

(I thought it, but only in the unmentioned sense that recent posts by pine made me go hmmm. Not towny hmm not scummy hmm. Just hey I ought think about that hmmm)
(and it was nothing to do with you....)
(You do know who have they paranoia(about who (does/doesn't) thinks their scum) and sense that its all about them amped up, dont you? Its scum.)

At 2v2
I am choosing the most likely to flip scum. (tempered a bit with who I think can get lynched.)

Why there is in fact a magical wagon on Pine today, without any real new information, especially from thor who now claims to be lading the push(sic) has me puzzled.
I also have a degree of IDGAF. Why? Start at 5652 and extrapolate backwards.

[AxleGreaser]

I'm not failing to participate, I'm watching and learning. I haven't had the time between two jobs and family in town to go archive diving, but I have been staying current with what's going on now

learning what would be interesting.
be careful not to learn bad things.

[AxleGreaser]

Why in the universe did you never ask him for his other results if you thought it was legit?

??

Also axle are you reading the game because you missed something important

apparently Flub missed doing/thinking something important?

[AxleGreaser]

The cop was a little awkward in defining what his investigation revealed or didn't reveal.

While it *was* true that it was little awkward.
he did eventually say

He said I got guilties on anti-town entities. Mafia or WW or SK or anything like that was not specified. I do know I get a false guilty on Millers though. Doubt that helps.

Which is not at all unclear. Beast was not a faction cop.

---

Was this posted Day 2?

If so, TSO/Slandaar might be innos.

Beast was fully claimed out in the open PRIME night cop. He had no reason not to state innos if he had them, and as he was a prime(2,3,5,7,11,..) night cop, and claimed to have got a guilty night 2. Either he lied (a lot) or he had no innos.

Axle: Keeper of the truth.

[AxleGreaser]

EBWOP clarity

Why in the universe did you never ask him for his other results if you thought it was legit?

indeed ??

Also axle are you reading the game because you missed something important

apparently Flub missed doing/thinking something important?

[AxleGreaser]

I don't see what is unclear about that question. Flubber also apparently understood it - so...?

sorry next post tried to make it clearer I was doubling up on the question, as i found I wanted to know that too.

[AxleGreaser]

Why would a Gunsmith clear on me make any difference

Just a local culture question.

Spoiler: prolly not relevant to MS forum players, but Id like an answer, from experienced/long time forum player, please

previous observation.
The NKs did not specify a kill method.

Ive seen forums where they ordinarily play WW vs seer etc. Ones where they play mafia vs cop.

Do Were Wolves always(100%) not have guns. Thus is a GS always a faction cop and never detects WW.
Ok so even if it always has been true, I have never seen a prime night cop either....
Would it be not normal, or just breaking with tradition? (more or less breaking than prime night cop?)

[AxleGreaser]

yeah I understand that the question still holds: Because at best it only vaguely plausible a GS might also detect technically advanced wolves who use guns. (I only asked so I don't get tunneled on the idea of how a hypothetical GS works here based on offsite knowledge/observation.)

[AxleGreaser]

Spoiler: For convenience: flubs unvote, "in response to GS claim" as mixin with comments on Boon.

UNVOTE:

The only thing that got you through those slips was that you were playing with wake88 and some fool that got conftown endgamed. And you were pegged by the only competent player that made it to lylo with a passing glance.

A question flub just asked thor.

Why didn't you comment on my unvote right after he said it?

but I am curious why

Even though (you are now RAGE VOTING NERO) and Nero said this.

UNVOTE:

Why did your vote not move to Boons?

Which means he knows (or could reasonably be assumed to know) you acted on your belief he was a GS.

that he also claims(backtracks?) this

Though it would be funny, also possibility to draw some scum actions.

Why not asking Nero (the guy you are voting) about him leading you astray. (with towny him thinking it would be funny. Your attention seems strangely not directed at the guy you are voting?)

How come, you are looking(intent) one way but voting the other?

FYI Rhetorical Q: Why would Nero backtrack? 5760 5779 seem like reasons.

[AxleGreaser]

Are you? I think you are literally the only person (besides DGB who hadn't been here and hadn't read it) who was taking the claim seriously - and that only late in the day.
Why in the universe did you never ask him for his other results if you thought it was legit?

So mafia can know how many shots he is?

Why didn't you comment on my unvote right after he said it?

How many checks he has made is past tense, and would not require you to ask how many more he can make.

[AxleGreaser]

This whole situation reminds me of scumMhork rage voting my for not being a vig.

ah so you are a habitual fake claimer?

Quotes from InuYasha

I softclaim vig

, no shot hence in his black and white mind I am "lying".

B/C IM NOT A VIG YOU STUPID ROLEFISHING FUCK

Did I say I was a vig?

I remember implying I had kill powers but I don't think I ever said I was a vig but tell me why you needed to know?

So why am I scummy for that?

You should have said so earlier, I could have pushed for your lynch D1.

but I am even way less cool with fake claiming info roles that people(Flub) then act on and you seem to be fine with that. That is past D1 PL, and yes its scummy.

[AxleGreaser]

Oh yeah and ImuYasha was scum and Nero town. but the habit is, self aware meta, and convenient to both alignments

[AxleGreaser]

This whole situation reminds me of scumMhork rage voting my for not being a vig.

also when i looked at that game I saw no rage voting that would remind me of this game

No I'm not parroting Neil. I want to know why you didn't vig last night. I have my own reasons for this.

Seems odd (out of place) that you say you think that.

[AxleGreaser]

clarity added

Oh yeah and in ImuYasha Mork was scum, and Nero town. but the habit is, self aware meta, and thus convenient to both alignments

[AxleGreaser]

Earlier you claimed

reminded

and

rage voting

This whole situation

reminds

me of scumMhork

rage voting

me for not being a vig in Inuhysa.

ok you win this round. I had forgotten that it was actually Neil and not Mhork that was the one pushing me for "lying about my claim"

Yes pushing you about lying is actually what they both did.
So no I dont see the

reminding

part at all. (you appear to have imagined that part... twice now)
Except i can see you would like us to be aware of your self aware meta that you have done that as town.

So yes given the game state, PLing you today is not really on. The awful nature of it alone is not necessarily scummy (for you)
That you did it this time with an information role then let players act on the disinformation sis new level of WTF?

However the context of you and Neil, is

also

, not people rage voting you.

Spoiler: context from that game

In the game where Nero claims to remember someone (first Mhork then Neil) rage voting him like this game...
What actually happened was.

so if my kill tonight does not go through I'll go shouting TARGET IS NARAKU.

scum have a roleblocker, and there are many kinds of kill-prevention things this game.

...all this may be wrong, though

By no means am I trying to tell you how to go about your role... but I will say, it might have been better if you kept what you received a little to yourself until later on in the day when we were closing in on the lynch.

But now that you've shown your cards, I imagine your best play would be to tell us who you're targeting right when someone gets lynched. That way we have an idea if your kill doesn't go through, and you get targeted for whatever reason and you're not protected, that we might be able to figure out who Naraku is.

With that said:

Nero, what's up? What'd you do last night? What happened?

Curious...

Nero, what's up? What'd you do last night? What happened?

your team blocked me.

Wow just caught scum red handed.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nero Cain

He's not a vig, he didn't get blocked, he doesn't have a shot... he's a liar. A lying scum that now officially needs to die.

[AxleGreaser]

@Flub perhaps it wasnt clear, this post and its questions were at you

Spoiler: For convenience: flubs unvote, "in response to GS claim" as mixin with comments on Boon.

UNVOTE:

The only thing that got you through those slips was that you were playing with wake88 and some fool that got conftown endgamed. And you were pegged by the only competent player that made it to lylo with a passing glance.

A question flub just asked thor.

Why didn't you comment on my unvote right after he said it?

but I am curious why

Even though (you are now RAGE VOTING NERO) and Nero said this.

UNVOTE:

Why did your vote not move to Boons?

Which means he knows (or could reasonably be assumed to know) you acted on your belief he was a GS.

that he also claims(backtracks?) this

Though it would be funny, also possibility to draw some scum actions.

Why not asking Nero (the guy you are voting) about him leading you astray. (with towny him thinking it would be funny. Your attention seems strangely not directed at the guy you are voting?)

How come, you are looking(intent) one way but voting the other?

FYI Rhetorical Q: Why would Nero backtrack? 5760 5779 seem like reasons.

[AxleGreaser]

If this wasn't multiball and Nero still had his vote on Iz there is no way I'd be voting Iz. I hate multiball.

VOTE: Iz

I've explained my reasoning toward Iz since the beginning of Day 2.

Hi, please check that i have the right reasoning, that i found near the start of D2.

Anenien was very prominent in our neighborhood last night, along with Iz. I claimed that I have a protective role in the thread, and also asked who people thought would be worth protecting.

I did not claim any role, nor will I be doing so toDay

. The way I said it made it seem like I had a limited use, which Iz pointed out in the thread also. I feel Iz thought he could get some town cred by not killing me after I claimed that I was a protective role, since he most likely thought I was just some noob not knowing what to do, and since he thought I slipped that I had a limited power role, he'd be fine not killing me. I expect there to be at least one scum in my neighborhood, since we are the biggest neighborhood, and Anen is now dead. Goodmorning, Shiro, and Iz have at least one scum there, and I'm banking on it being Iz.

Is that correct?

Prod dodge.

There are people that want to lynch you.
I have been one of the ones that doesn't.
I get more and more prickly the longer I wait for what ought be trivial clarifications.

[AxleGreaser]

Spoiler: OT

Axle: Keeper of the truth.

Silly me, I forgot isn't a prime number.

"In the 19th century, however, many mathematicians did consider the number 1 a prime"

Just old fashioned.

[AxleGreaser]

If this wasn't multiball and Nero still had his vote on Iz there is no way I'd be voting Iz. I hate multiball.

VOTE: Iz

I've explained my reasoning toward Iz since the beginning of Day 2.

Hi, please check that i have the right reasoning, that i found near the start of D2.

Anenien was very prominent in our neighborhood last night, along with Iz. I claimed that I have a protective role in the thread, and also asked who people thought would be worth protecting.

I did not claim any role, nor will I be doing so toDay

. The way I said it made it seem like I had a limited use, which Iz pointed out in the thread also. I feel Iz thought he could get some town cred by not killing me after I claimed that I was a protective role, since he most likely thought I was just some noob not knowing what to do, and since he thought I slipped that I had a limited power role,

he'd be fine not killing me.

I expect there to be at least one scum in my neighborhood, since we are the biggest neighborhood, and Anen is now dead. Goodmorning, Shiro, and Iz have at least one scum there, and I'm banking on it being Iz.

Is that correct?

Prod dodge.

There are people that want to lynch you.
I have been one of the ones that doesn't.
I get more and more prickly the longer I wait for what ought be trivial clarifications.

I believe I did actually end up claiming Day 2. But yeah, there's quite a bit of stuff I put out on Iz; i pushed him for a while.

You claim:
He looks scummy for not killing you.
You are two shot RB and could not have been killed.
and even if you had been shot you would not know.

Please explain how he could have killed you, and how you know no one tried to.

[AxleGreaser]

Iz was the one contemplating all that stuff, not I. Sure, I could have been shot night 1, i made a post on my theories, but they were just theories. I originally thought Iz was scummy based on how he was talking to me acting like he knew what had happened. I think you are mixed up somewhere.

Nope not me that mixed up.
The question is whether you re mixed up scum or town.

You claim you are a two shot BP. (who hence cant be killed N1)
You claim due to stuff that happened in the hood, Iz would get town cred for not killing you (N1).
You conclude that as you didn't die N1, Iz tried to get town cred by not shooting you?

How do you know you were not shot N1?
Everyone else still alive knows they were not shot N1 as they are still alive, as they are not a BP.

You also seem to think that you being alive, means, you were not shot?

If you are in fact BP, how come you believe Iz (or some other scum) didn't shoot you?

[AxleGreaser]

Is that the extent of your Pine case?

Compared with your case and response, it looks deicidely stellar.

I mildly lean Boon as Mafia right now.

Vote: Josh_B

What's up with you again?

2. Why do I do anything? I will admit I've been selling Flubber quite a bit while voting Pine. Really that's up to you to interpret, because I see no need to explain it beyond admission of the reality in front of you.

(...stuff thors neutral about)


1.
2.

So...you didn't even analyze it in relation to what type of scum you thought I was?

Unvote: Pine
Vote: Flubber

Pine has actually converted me from a mild town read to a scum read on his slot due to utter fail of ability to do anything - that said, Flubber's reply here is skeevy and not happy making either, and I personally think he has a more suspect voting history in either case.

Let's run him up to L-1 and force a claim.

The mod has us currently listed as less than 2 days till deadline - so frankly I'd like to run ANYBODY to L-1 - but let's maybe aim for Flubber? It would excite me.
There are too many of you not voting yet - it's really annoying.

Which i could easily rate as half arsed "damn the lynch with faint praise" distancing attempt, if he flips scum some time.

[AxleGreaser]

So your point is what?

you were rather keen to reference a game where you made bad fake claim and were town.
It did not happen naturally in that your were not reminded of similar situation as it was quite different.

There was no rage voting in that game as you claimed.

That for adds to the odds that you were simply making up that someone rage voted you in that game so as to have an excuse to cite your own meta.
Scum fabricate their towniness in such ways. Unfortunately there is some chance you do that as town too.

[AxleGreaser]

I find the Pine push to be fine.

mee to.

As the day is drawing to a close, and may end suddenly.
I thought I ought indicate these things in case i am not alive tomorrow.

Spoiler: in the event of death

These are just the things that are different, to previously stated positions.

Boon:
I have argued before against reasons for Boon being scum. I still cant work out how or why scum boon would have made his D1 play, when ithink it porbably should have been fairly clear there was another scum team.
perhaps he is a BP scum? and the teams are quite asymmetric.
Anyway I don't quite have the same objections i think I explained earlier.

Thor:
Has been treading water. Don't like how he half arsed his Pine vote (pseudo push), then went elsewhere all for ? reasons.
If you look at my argument with Flubber about *WHY* he was scum reading Thor there are indeed scum stories that match the push on Shiro.
I have not yet sorted today out, but something feels wrong about it. (perhaps flips will help)

Caveat:
This is a three player(team) game. Correct play in 3 player games is bizarre, if done well. Lots of foxing.

[AxleGreaser]

baaaa

[AxleGreaser]

It did not happen naturally in that your were not reminded of similar situation as it was quite different.

no, not really. Neil was rage voting me. Why do you think Flubber is voting me right now?

No not really, That is not rage voting.
There is not even any faux rage, from neil.
and thus we have why I quote Neil in this previous post.
There was no rage voting by (

Mork

no you mean) Neil to remind you of this game. That bit is untrue.
I conclude you were not reminded of that game but just wanted to mention it hence made up a similarity where there was none.

Earlier you claimed

reminded

and

rage voting

This whole situation

reminds

me of scumMhork

rage voting

me for not being a vig in Inuhysa.

ok you win this round. I had forgotten that it was actually Neil and not Mhork that was the one pushing me for "lying about my claim"

Yes pushing you about lying is actually what they both did.
So no I dont see the

reminding

part at all. (you appear to have imagined that part... twice now)
Except i can see you would like us to be aware of your self aware meta that you have done that as town.

So yes given the game state, PLing you today is not really on. The awful nature of it alone is not necessarily scummy (for you)
That you did it this time with an information role then let players act on the disinformation sis new level of WTF?

However the context of you and Neil, is

also

, not people rage voting you.

Spoiler: context from that game

In the game where Nero claims to remember someone (first Mhork then Neil) rage voting him like this game...
What actually happened was.

so if my kill tonight does not go through I'll go shouting TARGET IS NARAKU.

scum have a roleblocker, and there are many kinds of kill-prevention things this game.

...all this may be wrong, though

By no means am I trying to tell you how to go about your role... but I will say, it might have been better if you kept what you received a little to yourself until later on in the day when we were closing in on the lynch.

But now that you've shown your cards, I imagine your best play would be to tell us who you're targeting right when someone gets lynched. That way we have an idea if your kill doesn't go through, and you get targeted for whatever reason and you're not protected, that we might be able to figure out who Naraku is.

With that said:

Nero, what's up? What'd you do last night? What happened?

Curious...

Nero, what's up? What'd you do last night? What happened?

your team blocked me.

Wow just caught scum red handed.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nero Cain

He's not a vig, he didn't get blocked, he doesn't have a shot... he's a liar. A lying scum that now officially needs to die.

[AxleGreaser]

Keeper of the truth... and that your are making stuff up (misremebering) about your own play is quite disturbing.

Nope it was L-2...

So basically you're saying that I had a wagon built on you to L-1,

and really you are claiming you got wagon to L-1 then jumped off without a claim?

Vote Flubbernugget

@Thor: Consider - I think you're scum. You appear to be putting together a cobbled-together, last-minute case on Flubber. I don't think you'd be doing so against someone you think is Town, too risky. Therefore, I'm guessing you have some kind of inside information. Scum in multiball often have a much clearer idea of who their opponents are than Town does

So basically you're saying that I had a wagon built on you to L-1, and then decided that you were town (for no reason, as you hadn't posted gak) and/or decided that Flubber was scum for a suddenly realized cobbled scum insight that I cannot share but is somehow connected to something he posted - and decided to avoid lynching you and push him as scum in a last minute gambit?

Yeah - that sounds like a scum plan...

Well that wouldn't be, but that doesn't mean there is no plausible scum plan.

You voted for Pine, with no real reason or push. Waffled around, and knowing that with this town in this game,it would be a pretty dam good bet no one would do jack (get to L-1) most of the day, then jumped off at L-2.
and all the good sheep followed you.

So while thats not the only explanation, it not a totally incredulous one.

[AxleGreaser]

Spoiler: stuff

Will Ren get banned for posting while he's dead. PLACE YOUR BETS NOW!

On this fora i wont usual comment on such things that are not my concern. This one is odd in that respect

TBMK. The flips dont come right away. That leaves neighborhoods with some time where scum have to post in them without displaying that they have TMI.
In this game, (unlike others that have not had the delay AND the hoods)
As such, no knowledge of the flip for that period is part of the game.
Reinoe (a former mafia(

WW

) + only little WIFOM) making that post,
preempts the flip
.
Not good. ba bow.
But id expect not many to have noticed that, so while not deliberate, there are reasons you just dont break rules, and they are that you (and I) are not usually as clever as we think we are as we dont have all the information. So you are best only painting inside the lines ever.

[AxleGreaser]

What else do you think played a part?
Because 1/2 Vig kills and 4/7 Lynches being accurate and 2 stopped kills is *not* bad town play. Town, over 50% of the time, was dealing with scum.
9/9 Scum kills being on town, however, is fairly devastating. Scum, 100% of the time, was not cross killing in a game built to balance via cross kills.

The screwy thing about playing MB using mathematics of game theory is that it is a self balancing, super anti swing setup.
On occasions when town is doing as well as you describe, exactly how should scum adjust their shooting over their stock standard game plan?
More shots at the playing well team? Seems kind of obvious.
Town Kills, not cross kills: I don't like it, didn't want it, as it was not compatible with my win con, BUT I am pretty sure I cant actually fault the logic. 7165

gg

Well shot.

That is the reason *I* wont, unless I mess up, be choosing to play an MB game again for rather quite some time.

Spoiler:

As people criticizing mods/setups is a thing that happens, the above is not. It is me; criticizing me for:

'The choice of games I replaced into and how well i chose a fit for my personal preferences.'

On that score: Any amount of I dun bad == my bad.

Scum, 100% of the time, was not cross killing in a game built to balance via cross kills.

That may be your understanding of the game balance setup, and as a static analysis it is IMO precisely true, on average scum will balance the game via cross kills. >HOWEVER< What they should do in specific cases, depends

not

on how the game is balanced pregame on setup but how it is playing out on the ground. Worse: it doesn't matter how the game is actually playing out it depends how scum thinks it is playing out with the information. Thus WW had an ace int he hole, whereas maf thought a 1T/1W/1M was possible win for maf, WW knew it wasn't.
Maf legitmately misunderstood they how deep the hole they were in was, if they hadn't managed to lynch WW they had to shoot them twice... and town wont lynch at 1v1v1... That misunderstanding biases scum shots towards the understandably inaccurately perceived danger of town.

A setup where Scum underestimating how much of threat the other team is, actually shifts the balance of the game against town a bit. Note actually giving both scum team really powerful roles so they know the other team is powerful major threat, somehow can effect the balance less as
seen in this game scum perceived game state (not the actual one, whatever it is) controls how much cross kill action there is.

You might think the above is me arguing against BP is MB scum teams... no....... I reckon the other scum team might have a BP we dont know about is really really good thing to have as a possibility in MB games. Imagine next time you are scum in such game... That is one of the problems you will need to worry about.

[AxleGreaser]

would put me to 1:1:1 Kingmaker...

Its not a king maker.

Town claims town and says,
<day start>

claim town

vote: nolynch

Have at it guys, feel free to shoot me, so as to aid the other guys win con....

When playing to win con,... Both scum only have the choice of shooting at the most likely to be scum other guy and praying the other guy stiffs up and shoots the towny....

1v1v1 is not king maker.

Note scum do that too. Both scum claims town votes no lynch and tries to wifom the other guy into shooting the actual towny...

With informed players:
1v1v1 (without a BP) is decided in the shoot out not the lynch.

With derp, then as normal anything can happen.

[AxleGreaser]

I am content with how I played but I would appreciate people critiquing things I did. Like how to effective claim a role like mine.

I came at you most hard about that...

>>>

post game truth

<<< AKA invoking trust tell that is illegal inside games....

I wasn't as convinced as i posted in the game thread.

As town: I wanted the can kicked so that if we lynched Reinoe as was always likely to happen no matter how hard i kicked your can, we would have words and interactions to try and guess what you really were if scum didn't shoot you.
So that was probably some aspect of my scum game. . Running a wagon on someone who really might not have been quite my most likely to flip scum today.
I thought I was unlikely enough to get mislynched, I could take that risk.

As I stated in the game thread, if scum reckon say: Thread sentiment and Thor voting them at day start makes them terminal sometime soon... then fake claiming guilty on someone their team believes is probably scum from the other team is not a totally bad play. (event though I am somewhat strongly opposed to most/all gambits on principle) Hence I thought you being scum doing that was definitely worth exploring.

One of things I got by kicking your wagon did was make me pretty sure, that if sometime you flipped scum the gambit had not been your idea so Id be looking for an experienced partner...

Conversely: Days where nothing happens due to early claims of red checks don't yield much. Scum just get to roll out, their stock standard "yep I beleeve the red check/n

vote: redcheckedPlayers#1

" and if they are any good as scum at all there will be no tells at all that day.

Its also good to as town know how your role works, that tends to make me think you have had the role long enough to have PM'd the host any questions or clarifications you required.
Also hosts answer real questions about real roles more thoroughly than scum asking hosts for theoretical trolling info about possible roles.
That said , I think its statistical thing that scum often think out their fake claims better than townies think about their actual roles for some reason. ( I expect it is scum!fear leading to due diligence, vs town!empowerement leading to kicking back and phoning it in.) I still advocate as town knowing all about you role especially before claiming it.

If you want I could discuss some stuff in more detail by PM. I dont like ripping down the rational basis of a bad scum read on flipped town player in post game, I feels to much like I am telling you you were bad... when at least, my read was bad too?

[AxleGreaser]

So this was one of my first times playing scum. Also first time in a large.

Anybody have thoughts for improvement of my game? (inb4 don't get scumread by town vig )

I scum read you early D1. (as my first scum read...it also wasnt strong)
It didn't take long for me to think both TSO and Garmr looked scummier than you so that is not too bad for "first times playing scum."

[AxleGreaser]

Just going to say I really did think axle was an opposing scum member eventually and I quit because he frustrated me lol.

Well thats kind of hilarious in that while I do have mutliple ideas whats going on in my head, at least one of them was you were scum you were genuine in thinking I was scum, and the 1v1 was way out as lynching scum from the other team like that could get you town read even in MB. Its why I backed off that time, I figured towny Garmr wouldnt slow down and would see that as scum weakness, Scum Garmr would see it as escape. In my mind after that you claimed scum. As thor pointed out knowing who is scum is only a third of the problem.

About the the frustrating part.... yeah I should have frustrated you less. Sorry about that my head was busted as mentioned elsewhere.(I was doing stuff OCDly right in some sense that made sense in my head but not when i read it back, after you complained about it.... oops)

meh

[AxleGreaser]

Spoiler: actually LOL

Fuck, sorry hood. I only have sporadic access atm and no computer. I'll get down what you wanted.

Mildly scum reading Scripten for last night.

Roses are red
Violets are blue
Give me the goddamn PT's
I'll keep bumping til you do

So how that case on Aneninen coming?

LOL.

I am so torn.....
I wanna see the PTs too.
I wanna see you not see them... (childish i know, but I old enough that cherishing the child in me is valid past time.)
have cake, eat cake, have cake, eat cake....

Original Roll String: 1d3

1 3-Sided Dice: (3) = 3

1 => I wanna see the PTs
2 => I wanna more delay
3 => I wanna re roll to delay deciding delaying

[AxleGreaser]

Spoiler: blush

I only cheated the roll a little...

Original Roll String: 1d3

1 3-Sided Dice: (1) = 1

Original Roll String: 1d3

1 3-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

we appear to be stuck in re roll loop

[AxleGreaser]

EBWOP oops messed up? the second set of dice or misremebered something.

[AxleGreaser]

I personally feel that I didn't compromise anything,

putting whether you did or not aside,
just consider this games thread and the slips/problems about other games that happened in it.

Even if you could have the discussion and not compromise anything, other people sooner or later would not and would slip.

I personally would feel uncomfortable either reading or not reading your discussion.
Your discussion would or might contain trust tell confirmed (as they are out of game statements about your real views on certain topics) relevant to the game state.
and that is apart from any WIFOM on whether you would or wouldn't have the discussion at all if you were scum
Simple existence or absence of the discussion itself can be construed to be game/alignment relevant...

If you had had the discussion,
If I read your discussion i have out of game info, if I don't but other players do they will hold positions for reasons I don't understand.

I have thought about this topic somewhat on multiple occasions, it always makes my head hurt trying to work out what would and wouldn't be problem.

So: My bottom line is I 'go dark' when I play.
zero posts and always leaking zero posts on any topic is also zero game information all else is tricky, so I don't bother.

"Monty Hall" (and related genera of meta logic puzzles) taught me how hard it is to go zero information leak unless you go dark.
(Actually a lot more than that)