Weak town read. See the above. I suspected him early D1, but he does get more purposeful, even if I didn't like the direction he took. I see no glaring contradictions or anything.
Because he's purposeful, he's town? And he doesn't contradict, so he's town?
That's not really trying to look at his alignment, is it?
How about you vote for Nero?
I can appreciate that Beast really is currently policy lynchable, (for failure to play and turning up opportunistically once?)
but I think Nero is significantly better than a policy lynch.
In post 4318, Nero Cain wrote:Just 'cause I'm not a fluff monkey like TSO, Thor or Axle
Thinks Thor is a
fluff monkey
... (is that inherently scummy, and are these people different when town... appears not to matter/be considered) (hence assume this is PL not alignment related)
A way that is not too absurd to be considered that Nero can be curently trying and work out Thors alignment.
Spoiler: This spoiler contains Axle_Logic <open at own risk>
Ok so nero made this post.
In post 4318, Nero Cain wrote:This is my first game with Flubber. Him being easily mislynchable doesn't mean he's town here. I also don't think that Thor is an easy mislynch.
Nero does not think Thor is an easy mislynch.
If we assume that: Nero is town and not scum making a truthful heartfelt comment about how hard it has been to try and mislynch Thor...
and we assume that Nero is trying to PL thor for the policy reasons that Thor is a fluff monkey, and nero is unsure of him (null read)
If Nero succeeds in PLing Thor for those lame arsed policy reasons and Thor is not an easy mislynch then the fact that he succeeds must mean Thor is not being mislynched (because that isn't easy) and is thus actually scum!!!!
Thus Thor will think Thor is scum if and only if he PL's him for being an (unsure horrible fluff monkey) !!!!
Reading the above back I need to say two things. In trying desperately to find any semblance of Nero actually saying thor is scum I have lost contact with reality.
I am not currently drunk but I think I ought be, and if I get drunk I will stop posting as Thor PL's drunk posters. (I might even tend to scum read them and vote them, and that could be embarrassing as I also tend to scum read and vote self voters too.)
It is however a good thing I dont scum read and vote fluff monkeys or Id be in deep fluff monkey shit.
If you(reader) have saner way, that you think Nero is actually
scum reading
thor please tell me because I am already waist deep in fluff monkey shit.
In post 4393, Nero Cain wrote:Yours is the only viable wagon that I support unless an Axle or TSO wagon pops up *hint hint* or if the Josh B wagon grows.
AXLE and TSO were defined most recently by you before that as policy lynches.
In post 4318, Nero Cain wrote:Just 'cause I'm not a fluff monkey like TSO, Thor or Axle
Thinks Thor is a
fluff monkey
... (is that inherently scummy, and are these people different when town... appears not to matter/be considered) (hence assume this is PL not alignment related)
In post 4434, Nero Cain wrote:These posts are claiming that I am suspicious of Thor which is consistent with me having him on my pl list. You are claiming to have ISOed me and that you did not find any of these posts. I find that EXTREMELY hard to believe. Why are you once again lying?
reads list explicitly did not include you as scummy
, just (PLable)
since then
to him you have been ,
As you did not call him scummy, that is an indication you do not find him scummy.
As ever since that list every time you have mentioned lynching Thor you did not talk about reasons for him being scummy exposes your actual intent.
Policy lynch Thor with no concern over whether he was scummy or not.
In post 4393, Nero Cain wrote:Yours is the only viable wagon that I support unless an Axle or TSO wagon pops up *hint hint* or if the Josh B wagon grows.
AXLE and TSO were defined most recently by you before that as policy lynches.
lets just pretend that was pushing a pl. Its singular.
wanting to Pl lots of people, as per your reads list.
look who contradicted themselves!
nope, simply saying I did contradict myself doesn't actually show anything you know.
So you support Thor a policy lynch, unless hint hint one of your two other policy lynches (Axle TSO) pop up (what you really want wink wink)
or if but only if the Josh B wagon grows.... (hey you scum read that one, but didnt vote it when the wagon was a contender but then died for lack of support.
would you push the guy you say you actual have scum read on (Josh B) over people you say you merely have as policy lynches.... nope.
You apparently didn't prune enough out as you supporting multiple policy lynches is all here in what you quoted.
In post 4441, Nero Cain wrote:Axle is scum. I am 100% on this and the next 5 players that vote him get a free invention.
be still my beating heart.
I am all a flutter.
Nearly tempted to self vote, so I can have an invention to go with the Brooklyn bridge that I am expecting in the post any day now.
reads list explicitly did not include you as scummy
, just (PLable)
since then
to him you have been ,
bullshit. You lied. You lied about that, you lied about never attacking me. And another thing, if you think I'm so scummy TODAY for never calling Thor scummy. Why did you ignore that on d1? That is not fluid and makes absolutly no sense from town.
vote:Axle
dear post quote snipper ...the post you quoted contained the evidence that I stated the time range in which I looked.
I have modified how much of my post you quoted to show where Iput the evidence for the thing you claim is a lie. I dont actually know if you lied when you snipped that out and pretended it wasnt there. It seems like an incredibly dumb thing to do as either alignment.Other people will have to form their own judgement if they care. Personally i am much more persuaded about your alignment from your singular lack of interest in Thors alignment in recent times. Also your large focus on policy lynches.
I made that time frame explicit because although I realised that in looking between your last reads list (when thor was only PL (not in the scum) list and now) was the only relevant time to look for statements that he was scum and that was why you were voting him,
I thought I had better have it explicitly stated so I did.
You have yet to specify just when you think I Axle
"lied about never attacking me"
. If you show it to me and actually discuss it it may be you are wrong and I never said that or you misunderstood.
Simply shouting he is scum 100% isn't really and argument. I do know it sometimes works, hopefully not today.
Well nope I cant if I dont know what you mean. When and where do you claim I lied about never attacking you?
why you lied about me never suspecting Thor.
I didn't. As just shown I specified the time frame in which I looked at your posts.
and why you never pushed me on d1 despite claiming that I'm doing the same thing today.
Why never push you D1 I was busy doing more important to me things. (sorting out TSO and then garmr reads)
I did not claim you are doing the same thing today.
I did claim that if people wanted early scumminess they should ask fonz what he saw. 43624341
Indeed I claimed you did different things on the two days. Today you are calling the day 1 PereV Wagon all kinds of horrible whereas yesterday it was merely a wagon that did not sway you 3383
also why would town do any of these?
I did the things I did do because I was hunting scum.
I did not do the things I did not do, but you have claimed I did (eg not specify when), because I didn't do them.
In post 4447, Nero Cain wrote:You said, I was never suspicious of Thor, I proved you wrong.
Nope I didnt say that, you didnt prove that as most especially you never showed that I had said it.
Your attemtp even creatively edited out the text that Post then reposted in big green letters specifying the time frame in which i had looked.
Also as stated it is not all that important to you intent that sometime a long time ago you indicated suspicion of thor
Then posted reads list that did not list thor as scummy but only as PL
Then posted a number of times saying you would PL thor and didnt mention scumminess at all.
That is what shows intent. Which is why that is what I examined.
In post 4450, Slandaar wrote:I need to go back a few pages but seriously what are you two doing?
Can we please stop messing about.
GM/Garmr/Dave/Boon.
Everyone just pick one and vote then be happy because you have made a good vote. If by tomorrow you are on the smallest wagon of the 4 then you move to one of the other 3. Next day to one of the 2. Then a lynch will be achieved by deadline and the lynch will be a good one.
Thank you all for your co-operation in these testing times.
Errr you first?
Well thats a plan but my list was GM/GarmrDave/Nero
and you ran away (even though you already had picked one from your list and voted another. 4197
Garmr wagon actually lost momentum, of the going backwards variety 41754243 (Shiro didn't come back either)
So I jumped to Dave... becuase meh
but the Nero wagon started to roll Boonskiies, TSO, ....
and Nero said
and I took that as message from God. So I stopped possibly playing against my wincon by meh voting, and I sheeped
Boonsikiies && TSO
by naked voting Nero !!!!!!!!!!
I held out for a whole 51 minutes before I posted reasons. (I am in a 144 step program for compulsive reason posters)(My sponsor tells me I am at step -1 )
and then shit happened.
At least some of it looks alignment indicative to me.
So yes i am ready to stop messing about and have been for a long time.
I am voting a guy I think is clearly very scummy. It sis not wagin that failed to gain traction for days on end there is areal chance people will vote for it.
I don't like your Boon wagon. Not voting it anytime soon.
In post 4437, AxleGreaser wrote:and here is my summary of you doing nothing but wanting to PL thor
In post 4438, AxleGreaser wrote:As you did not call him scummy, that is an indication you do not find him scummy.
and that's just 3 quotes!
[/quote]
Dear town please go look at those three quotes especially go look at the last one (that one explictly states in the words he cut out the time fame I was talking about.)
As a deliberate misrep this is about as blatant as it gets.
Indeed that is the post where I am explaining to Nero that I had in fact specified when I looked.
The first two are me quoting the same post where I did the analysis. That post has in the thread shortly after it the post where i define where I looked and just recently i explained why that is the logical and alignment indicative place to look
In post 4434, Nero Cain wrote:These posts are claiming that I am suspicious of Thor which is consistent with me having him on my pl list. You are claiming to have ISOed me and that you did not find any of these posts. I find that EXTREMELY hard to believe. Why are you once again lying?
reads list explicitly did not include you as scummy
, just (PLable)
since then
to him you have been ,
As you did not call him scummy, that is an indication you do not find him scummy.
As ever since that list every time you have mentioned lynching Thor you did not talk about reasons for him being scummy exposes your actual intent.
Policy lynch Thor with no concern over whether he was scummy or not.
4433 and 4438 both quote 4401
and as i have pointed out copious times I stated where that post had looked through the thread from (the alignment indicative place)
I looked from Nero last reads list right up to that point in the thread.
I got all the reasons Nero had wanted to lynch thor since he had rated Thor as a policy and not a scummy lynch.
Well thats a plan but my list was GM/GarmrDave/Nero
I am following the plan. I am voting Boon, his name is listed, I shall move votes if I have to tomorrow.
Ok I am following the plan too but I have marginally different list, mine has one guy not on your list just like yours has one not on mine.
And in the meantime do we talk about I chosen scummiest most likely to get lynched person?
In post 4465, Shiro wrote:I dont get it nobody thinks beast is a bad lynch. Most see him at worst as average So why not ? Nobody agrees af anything othrr than beast isnt such a bsd choice. So why not ?
@Thor If beast wagon does go anywhere I am voting Dave. Why beast first ? Cause that how I feel. Both lean scum for me
@Slandar-sempai would u consider beast ?
P.Edit
I see kk slander if none. I am giving beast wagon a day before leaving it though.
He is not a good lynch.
You don't have a why, you really ought be trying for a good lynch yeah?
Accepting an effectively random chance of scum is a town losing strategy in most setups I know best from other sites.
Pretty sure town has to do significantly better than random to win.
People wont have alignment indicative reasons for voting beast.
Its bad from where I stand.
Bottom line:
If I wind up compromise voting beast today somehow, the odds of me playing a game again soon go down, that is not mafia.
@JoshB please clarify. (question is at the end of the spoiler.)
Spoiler: currently only curiosity and accountability
In post 4505, Josh_B wrote:I don't have fully developed context of everyone's position in the game yet. I am starting to get a better understanding of how the thor/GM situation started. And after Thor's recent post I'm starting to think that Thor's position is more OMGUS on her part.
Axle's position seems more organic. If I'm going to point fingers at the GM wagon (that has interest and not votes) It seems like Axle is more the proprietor of GM scum than Thor. I think you would know that though, and point the finger that way instead.
I am confused about what the above means in terms of alignment.
Are you suggesting that, when you point fingers at the Gm wagon you are pointing fingers at who is scum on it? hence you are pointing at me?
I am confused because, my best guess is that (If I was an outsider looking at this instead of a participant)
I too would think my play more organic and the read on GM to thus be genuine and based on reading the thread. So when Gm flips scum, Axle wasnt bussing. And if on the less likely than random chance GM flips town, Axle was mistaken.
(but hey I have read my PM so...I am biased... a lot.)
So your observations match mine (tick) but I cant really tell for sure what your conclusion is.
I get the sense, but you don't appear to have said, that you are evaluating the GM wagon for finger pointing purposes, under the assumption GM is town.
@Josh B
Please clarify what pointing fingers means, and whether or not it is under the assumption ... if GM flips town/scum (or is independent of that).
In post 4479, Thor665 wrote:For the record, because no one else was apparently willing to read (skim) it and offer a thought.
For the record, I have done so far and will continue to read everything and its context several times. So thats +2
If nothing else:
yeah but now TSO and Boonskiies have something to work with if they are town and really want their wagon lynched.
In post 4505, Josh_B wrote:I can't vote everyone calling for a GM wagon at once, but dave, slandaar, scripten, and Axel are more interesting to me in that situation than Thor is right now.
If I read that correctly,
Ok this sounds like, you are saying you are suspicious of people who have indicated a scum read on GM but are not voting it... and that includes me...
I find that interesting in my case due to the large obvious facts.
So I pushed TSO D1
On D2 I have been interested in Garmr/Josh Good Morning Dave and more recently Nero (maybe in that time order IIRC)
and you have a problem with me (and my alignment)(more interesting) because I am not voting one of them? (I am not a quadruple voter)
In post 4514, AxleGreaser wrote:@Josh B
Please clarify what pointing fingers means, and whether or not it is under the assumption ... if GM flips town/scum (or is independent of that).
pointing fingers=FOS. I am scum hunting off the Invisible GM wagon. I just came out of a GM scum game, and even though I got hosed by town reading her in that game, I can already see huge differences in her playstyle from that one to this and I'm giving it a solid town read.
I'm including the fact that the wagon itself is made up largely of indirect claims and very little direct votes, which is also indicative of town slot.
Ah Ok, well in that case here let me help, by volunteering information.
Spoiler: info for Josh
yeah I scum read the slot. But my vote being elsewhere is because I believe them more likely to flip scum. 2242 was a vote with a question
The reason was "The above + Tone(927) + ..."
which means the question is reason 1 (and like ingredients on packets a majorest one)
Tone is reference to the emptiness of the GM scum read on Thor. (It had a bad tone to me )
and unspecified things
AKA answer the damn question 2454 Truthfully rated anon answering GM as a better lynch than PereV (who has flipped town))
I have done things such as wonder about other peoples opinions of GM 2754 and how they got them. (but that is primarily alignment indicative of the other people...)
Started this push here 3381 which centers around "explain why on D2 it has details and on D1, you didnt have any "
after a while GM posted this over exaggerated bullshit 3409
In this post I demonstrated a distinct lack of substantive reads (pretty clear on) on exactly the people GM had claimed to have them
then i got distracted by your slot 3421 fora while
went back to demonstrating GM is saying one thing about providing reasons then doing another.
In post 3400, goodmorning wrote:Besides which I made clear that if anyone had any questions about anyone then all they had to do was ask and they should receive.
Dave asked what he received was your
annoyance
and no real answer.
It goes on for a bit, but I dont think i got much further than making it abundantly clear GM is not posting reasons for reads and is unwilling to do so. (as per dave's interaction)
In post 3782, goodmorning wrote:Sort of had a vague thought - wonder how many read Axle posts still?
GM has explicitly adopted a stance of treating my posts with ignore
Presumably he knows my alignment or has no more need to find out, and does not care enough to let me work out his by being cooperative.
Also the indirect claims, from me are due to having better people to flip first. GMs reliance on "Oh I re read and changed my mind", and vague reads based on "a dash tone and a bit of meta there" are easily confusable with bad/IDGAF approach to the game. So GM for me is not in a lynch this first category. However GM still needs discussing as major(maybe only consistent) force behind a bad wagon.
not sure what specific issue you are talking about...
Thor recently said Gm had gut read instead of a tone one.
GM retorted he hadnt had a gut read ... 4506
Also oopsie (in recent post I mentioned stuff that actually was read on TSO.
Not however substantively different to
In post 927, goodmorning wrote:On Thor is mostly a tone-based read as I think I've made clear. I don't expect anyone to believe/follow me and I'm fine with that (to all others who asked).
and my problem with that tone based read... is that seemed like rpetty thin read to park GM to park himself D1 while letting the PereV wagon on a towny run to completion.
For person with a scum rad on the primary driver, it didn't feel like towny way to play.
However, on D1 perhaps it possible there is not single posts Gm can point to and say specific things.
D2 cures that difficulty as on D2 once the PereV lynch has gone through, now GM has specific things to say about D1 and mentions specific posts.
It feels all rather too convenient.
But to me not as scummy, hence likely to flip scum, as the people I have been voting today.
@captain, errm the ship seems to be running into ice berg Nero anyway?
[
2
3]Nero Cain: Boonskiies, T S O, TierShift
If I went back to voting the slot, and it is in my list of eminently lynchable slots, it would be equal lead wagon?
are you sure its not, in your list?
Spoiler: You could consider these recent compelling arguments
In post 4520, T S O wrote:is anyone actually townreading nero after that jump on axle
I thought you were scummy for claiming that Boons contradicted himself, when he didn't. Your reaction was to start questioning me and treating me like a scum read, which is the definition of a OMGUS attack. Yes, I know that OMGUS does come from town but it also comes from scum and I think its hard to tell the difference between the two. IF you called someone scum and they attack you back, would you think they are scum or town?
Yes and no. As it depends on intent. I have developed strong town reads on people because they attacked me. (If they are town they have to try and work out my alignment somehow)
I have developed strong scum reads on people because they neither attacked me, nor worked out my alignment, but somehow just knew.
As for your point I frequently check out people who are scum reading me, one advantage of doing it at that time is they have no excuse to run away and not talk to me.
k. Explain what you think my intent was.
When?
You asked about how to read situation when the person being question responds in what may be characterised as an OMGUS manner.
That does not match the above situation where you describe period when you initially questioned me.
You asked, a vague question about a not exactly specified event.
I point out the situations dont match.
And they do not match, the previous discussion had been about how to scum read an
OMOGUSSing responder
, but you now appear to be asking that I thus give you a read on a
Questioner
It has taken me a while to sort this out as you post a big fat wall and made no mark or distinction where this points ends.
With my snipping of your post I aim to make what you meant clearer.
If you claim it is not what you meant you will have to explain.
Spoiler: Here is where you made it clearER.
In post 4434, Nero Cain wrote:
[.........stuff.......]
^^^
that was the basis of my scumread on you.
In post 2593, AxleGreaser wrote:Because frankly its making you look scummy, as making baseless insults that put people down and denigrate their opinions is a scummy way to argue a point.
here is your OMGUS attack on me.
Earlier, you were arguing that MY attack on you was scummy.
So I asked
IF you called someone scum and they attack you back, would you think they are scum or town?
You told me that it depends on intent.
I asked you to explain my intent.
You then
LIED
and claimed that you never attacked me.
[... more stuff that TBMK is on a different topic ...]
Also, I probably do disagree that when responding to you attacking me that I "
OMGUSed
" you.
When I use that word, I use it when the response is based on the Logic OMG you are so bad to suspect *****ME***** that you must be scum.
The wiki has these words "voting for someone primarily because they voted for you" and the primarily because is for me important.
I am pretty sure, I just don't OMGUS. I look for intent. I know people can make mistakes and think I am scum. I push back to either find out if its genuine, town attack, or to make it easier for the thread to see that it is not genuine.
Here is me testing the genuineness of you. Deal with it.
I do find people scummy when they attack me, scummily, thats not quite OMGUS as I use it. (or as I see the spirit of the wikis use of it)
I do also find people very towny when they attack me, but do it as town for town reasons.
I don't as it would be stupid beyond belief claim that at the time you are describing I didn't find your actions/style a bit scum motivated.
It was IIRC a terribly strong feeling/read at that time, if as it appears it is part of an enduring trend then that is another matter.
I do find it intriguing that you want to policy Lynch Thor for being ...
(actually i am not sure what specific reason you have, but usually to be PL'd even vaguely like you are suggesting the guy has to be useless.)
yet here you are asking me to listen to the guy playing so badly, that you want to PL him...
Also as you did some long time ago before you put him on your PL list, have a scummish read on him of some sort.
Why would you trust what he says, and his opinion, and then also expect me too?
I dont really care what Thor says,
its a demonstrable fact that you were not referring to Thor as scummy in the period since when you listed him as a PL lynch not as most likely to flip scum lynch.
That is not you trying to lynch scum.
This post does have you using language that refers to Thors as a viable wagon, indicating there is compromise involved.
BUT <<<
(and thats the big BUT)
The other wagons you hypothesise about being able to run... TSO Axle and JoshB
Two out of three of those are also on your PL list. That is not you resorting to those as a compromise that is you actively pushing them ahead of your actual scum reads.
And Josh B...<who is on your scum list> you had chance to vote him but would not compromise off your smaller going nowhere wagon onto the larger one....
In post 4391, Thor665 wrote:i was pushing people to advance the wagon enough so I could get the claim out of the way - forcing both wagon accontability *and* a claim.
So...you wanted to get the claim out of the way and so did I but I am some how scummy for wanting the same thing you did?
Yours is the only viable wagon that I support unless an Axle or TSO wagon pops up *hint hint* or if the Josh B wagon grows.
So no thor is not hammered you need to play. At least enough that the people voting you can feel good about doing something useful instead of demanding that you play.
Apart from vote you recently is there something specific Tier has done that moved him up to one of your top two, most likely to flip scum?
There would seem to be lot of work required to get Tier lynched, I don't recall a recent wagon/vote on him.
That looks little more like posturing than an actual intent to get Tier lynched because you think he is scum
I thought you were scummy for claiming that Boons contradicted himself, when he didn't. Your reaction was to start questioning me and treating me like a scum read, which is the definition of a OMGUS attack. Yes, I know that OMGUS does come from town but it also comes from scum and I think its hard to tell the difference between the two. IF you called someone scum and they attack you back, would you think they are scum or town?
Yes and no. As it depends on intent. I have developed strong town reads on people because they attacked me. (If they are town they have to try and work out my alignment somehow)
I have developed strong scum reads on people because they neither attacked me, nor worked out my alignment, but somehow just knew.
As for your point I frequently check out people who are scum reading me, one advantage of doing it at that time is they have no excuse to run away and not talk to me.
k. Explain what you think my intent was.
When?
[.........]
and it is vague because it did specify when you wanted me to comment on your intent.
It was vague becuase it appeared to be asking me about a time when you had been the
questioner
and i had been the
responder
and we had just been talking about how i would evaluate the scumminess of a responder.
I pointed out that discrepancy and you jump to "he LIED"
Now it is true that town make that kind of mistake (jump to wrong conclusions) all the time, scum tend to do it more as they are not looking for the truth of whetehr or not i am scummy but are looking to see if they can plausibly jump to "he LIED"
You jumping to that conclusion that is not supported by the facts looks a bit scummy to me.
Your earlier consistent pushes on players who you found PL material without them being your most likely to flip scum candidates, That speaks to me of an intent to find lynch today, not find scum.
You started calling me scummy for attacking you, that is EXACTLY what an OMGUS attack is. What exactly did you find scummy other than just being angry that I attacked you?
As i have never (IIRC) before actually said I dont really believe any piush i made on you was OMGUS.
and as we have still not sorted out your false claims about me lying.
changing the subject is not appropriate.
I mean after all you are 100% convinced I am scum based on
and why you never pushed me on d1 despite claiming that I'm doing the same thing today.
also why would town do any of these?
and I have shown the two crossed out ones to be literally false. And the authority you appealed to Thor, noticed you snipping post to make it look like i said things that were clearly not the intent of the post you snipped them from.
If your 100% case has substance you need to back those points up.
As for the third point. At no time did i claim everything you did yesterday is the same as everything you did today.
The differences that exist will be one of reasons, I responded differently. Another will be prioritisation of my time.
I already posted at least as many words and posts as is reasonable. (most people appear to think too many)
There will also, (as I recall it,) have been no time/space to get to you yesterday.
In post 4571, Nero Cain wrote:Are you a Yates alt? This is like his play to a T. He'd whine about things and when proven wrong he'd keep arguing and ask me to quote and requote him...
given that I just showed you were wrong and you have just unvoted your 100% scum read...
I think you might be slightly more than gilding the lilly here...
and nope I am not the alt of any one. I played newbie from scratch /in ... ergo.
Spoiler: Ahh I see. it is slander
link to who yates was
Yates and all alts have been permabanned for secretly joining the same game with two accounts and lying repeatedly to site staff about his behavior.
In post 4318, Nero Cain wrote:Just 'cause I'm not a fluff monkey like TSO, Thor or Axle
Thinks Thor is a
fluff monkey
... (is that inherently scummy, and are these people different when town... appears not to matter/be considered) (hence assume this is PL not alignment related)
That is lots and lots of focus on lynching people who are not your scum reads.
There is no mention of we need to compromise, and that you are lynching anyone less than your preferred lynch.
I find a singular lack of you pursuing people you regarded as scum in that period.
Here is you for instacen definign what wagons you are interested in
is the only viable wagon that I support unless an Axle or TSO wagon pops up *hint hint* or if the Josh B wagon grows.
3 out of for of them are in your PL list.
*hint hint* implies one of those is what you really want.
But surely youd want wagons on your scum reads to pop up? Surely if they are scum reads, because they are scummy, a wagon might pop up?
That is a singular and a large lack of interest in pursuing a lynch on people you actually previously claimed to find scummy.
The only one that you previously found scummy, is aJosh B wagon... and are you pushing it?
Nope
You will only push it if it grows..
That ^^^^^^^^ is a ridiculously scummy set of play.
When we were arguing last night it was early morning here, I MAY have unintentionally misrepped you BUT I think that whole time frame think is junk.
I would also like you to explain why (IYO) it was silly of me to feel like scumIZ was whiteknighting you and then think you were town/not scum with Iz?
Your words suggest you were default reading me as town. Whiteknighting
derp town
.
Not protecting a scummy player, justifying derp play, but
derp town
.
If you are scum that is you slipping that you know I am town.
Spoiler: My original question and neros actual post
In post 2593, AxleGreaser wrote:Because frankly its making you look scummy, as making baseless insults that put people down and denigrate their opinions is a scummy way to argue a point.
^
that is you attacking me.
actually no, that was me slapping you with your own wet fish.
It is a wet fish as you dont even quite specify what you mean is scum or dumb. (baseless)
and this is just a fact
Because frankly its making you look scummy, as making baseless insults that put people down and denigrate their opinions is a scummy way to argue a point.
the fact that, that fact above and your previous quoted behaviour make you look badtm is not my fault nor problem.
If you don't want to look bad for chucking around insults that have no link to facts then don't do it.
FYI: The intent of that statement was not purely to hunt scum or advance my wincon, but to point out what you were doing. I thought you ought stop, no matter what your alignment was.
How you stopped or responded might well then be alignment indicative.
Sig chnage: Now you might get what this one means. "When you look into a still calm pool, it is not the pool that looks back.": Axle
. This reason shall be brought out, and most likely the main subject of Day 2.
In post 2581, Boonskiies wrote:This game is based off the neighborhoods. It's meant to be the main points of discussion.
No on D1 one your claim was about your role being "the main subject of D2"
Boons 2581 was saying that...see....mods know what they are doing. When a mod makes a game with hoods they EXPECT hood talk and thats what he was saying. So this looks really misreppy.
I am not I just have not been bothered going back and refreshing my mind what happened.
I pushed boon because his D1 claims about what would happen on D2 did not line up with D2.
I wanted him to stop being Pl material (on purpose because he cant be bothered playing because he is town....)
He needed some actual threat in order to start, and yeah the threat was and is real,
I am still prepared to PL him if he just wont play.
Thor has points, why not, but that only buys so much grace. He has to play as town.
That ^^^^^ is more open than I was at the time, because the pressure on Boon had to be real. and it still is because the old bit above is truth.
but we can go back and discuss it if you like BUT
First you need to clarify this.
Recently you 100% scum read me. Lately you swapped to Tier. Time is running out.
@Nero a question you need to answer first
Do You claim it is worth while going back and rehashing, the time when i pushed boon, and you pushed me?
(I don't at this time strongly scum read for that at all. Most of the scum read I have came more from your recent stuff.
Any scum read I had back then merely put you my list of leading candidates to check out.
Nothing you have described so far is why I found your push back (on me when i pushed boon) wrong and potentially scummy.)
Be aware that if you claim that it is worth while then it cant be me gumming up the thread with junk that has nothing to do with todays lynch.
In post 4583, Nero Cain wrote:Also the Josh wagon only had one vote, even if I moved my vote to Josh my wagon would still be bigger than his so I was ok with lynch bad town/maybe scum Thor so you guys wouldn't lynch 100% confirmed town?
You appear to either
just be wrong
or not be talking about the time at which I asked you to vote the significantly larger wagon on on one of your scum reads but you would not compromise.
Here are the facts contrary to your claim above.
Previous post count
In post 4048, Aegor wrote:
[5]Thor665: goodmorning, Izariael, reinoe, Flubbernugget, davesaz
[3]Josh_B: Scripten, AxleGreaser, Slandaar
[2]Flubbernugget: Nero Cain, The Fonz
That makes 4 votes on Josh at that time. (Scripten, AxleGreaser, Slandaar, Shiro)
You were two on Flubber.
Here is you not voting Josh to make Josh equal lead wagon... on 5 votes.
In post 4127, AxleGreaser wrote:If so,as you are LAZY and are not pushing your flub lynch....
Why are you not taking the LAZY easier option of voting JoshB/Garmr slot?
Well I've posted about why I'm suspicious about Flubber. What else should I do? Why are you not sheeping me on Flub?
I thought Garmr was fairly scummy yes, but now that you asked this the wagon is 2 of my scum reads and a pl. So that makes me a lil wary. But just for shit and giggles, explain to me what moving my vote would accomplish?
If you had moved and made it five on Josh, and that is getting close to serious, as it would then have been equal lead wagon.
If that had happened then you might never have needed to make this post
So no at that time I did not observe you willing to compromise to get lynch today. So your later claims that you are so willing to lynch into your PL list as a form of compromsie when not that long before you were not willing to compromise onto a larger wagon on different scum read is troubling.
I do understand the logic that if your scum reads are voting something then it is harder to do, and counts against it.
However right now your scum reads wanted to lynch Josh earlier and were pushing it at time when it really might have gone to completion (if people like you joined it) it was a contender. To my way of thinking that should still be troubling to you.
Yet now somehow this is not problem, Now. When Josh does not to me actually look like he will get lynched, now you vote him?
That ^^^^^ does not feel like town to me.
Also
Case on dave is not all in one place.
I guess I have a Thor style case on dave its all my comments in the thread. A lot of it is tone or ridiculously complex.
So lets call it a mixture of Tone, sheeping Thors points, and maybe second guessing myself with JoshB play(which pushes dave into the lead for me.).
But hey if you now believe Garmr is the best lynch based on what Garmr and JoshB did, and it no longer concerns you that your scum reads were trying to get him lynched earlier.
Then primarily I am sad you didn't swap earlier and then perhaps Thor would not have had to full claim.
In post 4583, Nero Cain wrote:So why is it ok for you to pl a player that you are suspicious of but I can't?
because it is PLing a player that just wont play.
(Hey see Thors earlier PL posts he can do it too. He wants to PL drunk posters, and I wont try and tell him its anti town, feel free to try.)
Boons adherence to VI is of legendary proportions 464
It is a choice, he makes
and the PL is an ultimatum that if he does at least try to play for the team he claims to be on, he will get lynched.
You have no policy for the people you say you want PL, you just have a list. A long list.
You also were hawking around to try and lynch them not as last resorts, not unless they changed in specific achievable ways,
but as 3 of the four proposed options
In post 4393, Nero Cain wrote:Yours is the only viable wagon that I support unless an Axle or TSO wagon pops up *hint hint* or if the Josh B wagon grows.
That betrays an internal desire and intent to get the PL candidates lynched seemingly ahead of your actual scum reads.
You are not putting up your scum read sand saying hey lets lynch these guys,...
You are promoting what you claim to be your compromise fall back lynches. (ahead of your scum reads...! nah)
BS.
Personally I am a little surprised you didn't just get speed lynched.
he didn't clearly scum read you D1 therefore he is scum. (I thiink thats the argument?)
Errm I know I am town and I didn't make much of my secondary reads public either....
I am pretty sure I hardly disclosed much about how I felt about your posting until I voted you near the end.
Indeed I had one of my weird reads, in which you became both townier and scummier both at the same time.
An some may say but you cant do that....Oh yes I can. That happens when I get to a point that when I resolve certain things are unknown the only thing you wont be is null.
Its a lot like a null read but not the same as i have most of the (scum/town)story, just missing a few bits.
There is still a chance for me that you are town and are right and Thor is scum
but you need something resembling a reason to persuade me
In post 945, goodmorning wrote:Were you expecting Thor to fuck up bad? Because I'm not. You may have noticed he's good at this game. He's not going to make any pushes he doesn't think he can justify, he's not going to overstretch his hand, and with this being a Large there's plenty of room to hide in.
Appeal to fear, && paranoia arguments like this don't wash with me. (it also smells wrong)
and yeah I don't expect Thor to fuck up. Reading Thor is hard. And that is why every time in a post game chat when Thor says you are bad for misreading him and mislynching him he is quite possibly just full of it. Thors hard to read a high error rate is expected.
However you want me to lynch Thor first when you failed to even attempt to try to find one of his easier to find buddies first? yeah right.
and yeah I don't expect Thor to fuck up, but you confidently tilted your hat at him from part way through D1. That smelt TMI fishy from the start.
So do you have any reasons to go with YOUR ALL CAPS SHOUTING FOR DRAMATIC EFFECT?
response to neros 4595
You do realise there is not currently a serious proposal to lynch you today.
You could instead be trying to get your best plausible scum read lynched.
In post 4585, AxleGreaser wrote:To my way of thinking that should still be troubling to you.
Yet now somehow this is not problem, Now. When Josh does not to me actually look like he will get lynched, now you vote him?
So....you are saying that I am scummy 'cause I didn't vote Josh with my scum reads and that I'm also scummy for ignoring that now.
yes you have new
schtick
(falsely)
claiming I am scum reading you for both doing and not doing something
and no that is not what I am saying.
# I am saying that if you legitimately wanted your scum read(Josh) lynched you could have voted for him when it mattered. (when he was at 4 votes) (read 4585 the top part)
# I was also saying your claim he wouldn't have had more votes than the wagon you were voting at the time was fiction. (read 4585 the top part)
# I am saying that you are doing so now when he is not near being lead candidate but the problems from before still exists indicates they were possibly not the serious problem for you that you claimed at that time. (problems == 2 of your scum reads have tried to lynch that guy) (read 4585 the bottom part after me quoting you just wanting thor to claim)
In other words I am analysing your intent and I fail to find that you have been trying to get your scum reads lynched in that time period.
<<< What I am saying
[.....]
In post 4586, AxleGreaser wrote:You have no policy for the people you say you want PL, you just have a list. A long list.
I think if you were actually reading instead of skimming/posting random things just to which to call me scum you'd find this untrue.
Well as I have previously repeatedly posted evidence that you have along PL list, 4127(it appears to be you that is not reading)(and i certainly cant be skimming as I keep quoting the posts...?)(WAT ?) also
# Focus and intent is: Pushing PLs over your scum reads. that you propose 3 out of 4 people you want to list as PL candidates. You saying it 4393
# this post was me listing all the variations I could find on what your PL thor policy is actually based on 4401
# so no I am pretty sure you have conclusive evidence I am reading your posts quoting them and showing that what I claim to be true is.
The following is Nero town story (according to Nero)
[.....]
Calls Thor scum on d1.
downgrades Thor but is still suspicious of him.
votes scumread Flubber.
doesn't get any traction on Flubber so I move my vote to a viable lynch (Thor)
Sorry but that makes perfect sense. And you fussing about it doesn't. *shrugz* I still think you are being upset over the fact that I attacked you.
And yes Id expect any scum can tell a story where they are plausible town. All you have to do is ignore all the points I mention above. They do not fit in your story.
(downgrades thor to PL) (does not mention how or why he is scummy between then and stating intent to hammer because you want a claim.)
(does not vote a scum read when that would have made it lead wagon. does compromise on thor to get a claim. does propose 3 out of 4 proposed wagons that ought form wink wink on Pl candidates.)
(blah blah...)
So yes when we leave out all the scummy stuff and look at just the stuff you want us too you can indeed look like a lazy towny as you claim to be.
[....]
As per my earlier post
You appear to be choosing badly.
Slaandar your vote/wagon are the weakest link. You have to (by your rules) move?
I do feel obliged to point out
[5]
davesaz:
Thor665, Josh_B, AxleGreaser, The Fonz, Shiro
[2]
Josh_B:
Scripten, Nero Cain
[1] Slandaar
at best only makes 8.
however impressive effort you have
pushed
lead the way to a 5 vote lead wagon, on someone who is likely to flip scum.
As opposed to paranoia based/tone/(mumble mumble)/policy/(revenge for PereV?) lynch.
Well done so far.
So you folks in the spectator vanity wagon seats really ought stop playing it (scummily)safe and pony up an actual choice who you want lynched.
PS. much as I loved the concept of an NC wagon lead by Boon and TSO, that means you too. Vote for a viable wagon. You guys have done and are doing squat to drive that lynch, it would be more honest if you simply unvoted and showed you were openly doing nothing to get anyone lynched, but were merely waiting out the day.
In post 4600, Scripten wrote:Ugh, I hate this. I'm not scumreading Dave or Thor enough to want to see them hang. If we can't hang the Garmr/Josh_B slot, can we lynch beastcharizard? It's done nothing but evasive, active-lurky BS. That's more likely scum than any of the three leading wagons, IMO.
UNVOTE: Josh_B VOTE: beastcharizard
may I suggest that if you had rowed the garmr/Josh B wagon harder when it was at 4 and I was voting it...
we would not be here?
In post 4600, Scripten wrote:Ugh, I hate this. I'm not scumreading Dave or Thor enough to want to see them hang. If we can't hang the Garmr/Josh_B slot, can we lynch beastcharizard? It's done nothing but evasive, active-lurky BS. That's more likely scum than any of the three leading wagons, IMO.
UNVOTE: Josh_B VOTE: beastcharizard
may I suggest that if you had rowed the garmr/Josh B wagon harder when it was at 4 and I was voting it...
we would not be here?
Well there was something that happened midway through the case being pushed. You know, when Garmr replaced out? Pushing an empty slot is pretty uncool, and I don't feel comfortable doing it.
yeah that is a point of view. And I don't like it either, as its rude to the guy(human) coming in. But we are not exactly frothing at the mouth with viable wagons and counter wagons this game. So in some ways is the rep outs problem?
I really wouldnt want it to favorable to the rep out slots wincon to rep out, is another thing I weigh.
but Ok. That is POV. (As maxwell smart would say: sorrry bout that)
In post 4610, AxleGreaser wrote:yeah that is a point of view. And I don't like it either, as its rude to the guy(human) coming in. But we are not exactly frothing at the mouth with viable wagons and counter wagons this game. So in some ways is the rep outs problem?
I really wouldnt want it to favorable to the rep out slots wincon to rep out, is another thing I weigh.
but Ok. That is POV. (As maxwell smart would say: sorrry bout that)
FYI: that (being fair to the human who filled the slot I pushed while it was vacant) is the reason for 3876 Hi and crack of light 3881 A fair shot at getting up to speed fast. 4536 Me giving the new guy the info he needs if he is (in the less likely to me case) town and really chasing something.
Spoiler: will (in event of untimely death)
SO @thread don't tomorrow, mistake, or be conned into thinking that was a large change of read. (if Im dead)
and yeah now I look 3976 is you pushing when Josh has replaced in. my bad. oops again.
Right now you are interpreting those events as scummy
In post 4617, reinoe wrote:7)Basically it looks like you didn't hammer thor
because you wanted to "look townie"
even though you had multiple completely justified reason to do so. I admit I definitely wanted thor hammered and lynched because I think he's scum. The question is why DIDN'T you want thor hammered?
Not very long ago you said
In post 4377, reinoe wrote:If Nero was serious about "lulz policy lynch thor" then he could have...
1)declared thor's claim fake and hammered.
2)FAKE cc'ed
3)pretended he wasn't paying attention to the VC and derphammered
Like sometimes townies do things that don't fucking make sense. Boons in every game. Some of the stuff coming from Dave and Flubber. The difference is trying to determine if there's scum motivation or town motivation.
The stuff coming from Nero feels townie.
Compare that to all the discrediting coming from thor earlier this DP. That shit was not town.
I would be be a lot happier if it was easier or even possible to make those two posts line up and agree with one another.
In post 4629, Shiro wrote:Oh btw another coincidence he talked to say he will contribute when he reached 3 votes and I was trying to convince people to vote him and when wagon went nowhere and tier left it he pops to say "oh by tommorow I meant next day phase cause I thought Thor was hammered"
That is suspicious .
Um yes it is. But isn't like kinda really early D1 kinda sized suspicious?
I'd like to think we are further into the game and have people we really ought flip who are likely to be scum,
and get alignment indicative stuff due to their interactions with others.
(Where would we be even if Beast flipped scum?)
(one fewer inactive scum with no thread presence, down one or two townies... and still with the same hard choice to make)<and that is best case about 25% scenario>
Id prefer to lose while trying, than piking out like that.
I will settle for lynching waste of space slot over nothing. Waste of space slots drive me too distraction as I signed up to play the game.
egads I want to be a vig... one day.
I know this town has been sitting on its hands and not playing, voting and making wagons of significant size. But starting in on lurker lynching D2 having lynched a non waste of space slot D1 seems a bit arse up and I wouldn't have even endorsed it D1 unless we had absolutely no viable consensus. PereV was a loss, but at least stuff happened.
Lynching beast is the first step IMO to town losing, unless you luck out and he is scum. (even then its not great)
That however gives beast way too much rope and scope.
Err beast continuing to do nothing, will be alignment indicative at some time. If you are town have any hope of saving the day come late game, you really need to get your act into gear.
but no I don't favour effectively a lurker lynch today.
I consider it an anti town plan. The only question whether its genuine townies anti town idea or a scum one wanting to eek out one more easy lynch.
In Shiro's case i currently lean towards this
push
for alurker lynch as the easy choice as non alignment indicative.
Shiro please think about what you get pout of the lynch and not just what is the easiest least confronting way to get out of the day.
In post 4632, Shiro wrote:Iz why ? How was his push on Thor then vote on GM and the back to Thor cause test town like ?
^Gm same question cause u said u aren't voting him.
Axl I get what u are saying
but we are going there
anyway cause people here cant agree.
Going where?
We only need half +1 on one wagon.
since last VC.
reinoe voted nero
Dave and Nero ought come back and survival vote or just get killed for not.
[7]davesaz: Thor665, Josh_B, AxleGreaser, The Fonz, Shiro, Slandaar, Nero Cain
[6]Nero Cain: Boonskiies, T S O, TierShift, reinoe, Izariael, davesaz,
[1] Not Voting: beastcharizard
Then that leaves these three who could theoretically tie it all up.
GM
Flubber
Scripten
They could possibly tie it up at 8v8
Then we stare at one another with 8v8, and someone blinks
or we all turn in lilly livered wimps and mad rush onto Beast.
Or town loses tragically (but deservedly) because the townies in the game refused to be decisive.
Largely the people not yet voting cant do a VI and get way with it.
In post 4617, reinoe wrote:7)Basically it looks like you didn't hammer thor
because you wanted to "look townie"
even though you had multiple completely justified reason to do so. I admit I definitely wanted thor hammered and lynched because I think he's scum. The question is why DIDN'T you want thor hammered?
Not very long ago you said
In post 4377, reinoe wrote:If Nero was serious about "lulz policy lynch thor" then he could have...
1)declared thor's claim fake and hammered.
2)FAKE cc'ed
3)pretended he wasn't paying attention to the VC and derphammered
Like sometimes townies do things that don't fucking make sense. Boons in every game. Some of the stuff coming from Dave and Flubber. The difference is trying to determine if there's scum motivation or town motivation.
The stuff coming from Nero feels townie.
Compare that to all the discrediting coming from thor earlier this DP. That shit was not town.
I would be be a lot happier if it was easier or even possible to make those two posts line up and agree with one another.
Wow, it's almost as if a shift in the game state caused a shift in opinion. Remarkable huh? Strange how something like that happened. It's like Nero Cain did something that did not have a townie feel to it at all and I made a 7 point post explaining it...
Yeah that would explain it.
Please walk me through what changed about the game state that reversed your earlier interpretation of the situation
I especially don't see anything that I remember happened after the first interpretation that is in any one of your 7 points.
I cant see how the things that happened after then inverted, your interpretation and yet not be part of the 7 points.
Its possible I am missing something, as I found the seeming discrepancy looking at your iso not rereading the entire thread.
I neither believe nor disbelieve his claim. (its null and wifom.) I know that JK is a common scum rb claim. So what specifically makes you disbelieve his claim?
I most certainly don't believe his claim. As you've already mentioned JK is a common scum RB claim. Here's where all of a sudden I'm finding you dicey...
1)You scum read thor
2)you think thor is PL worthy
3)you think JK is a common scum RB claim.
4)You don't hammer thor? WTF is this?
5)If thor is telling the truth then he's now nothing more than a named townie. Is it worth running up someone else who may be a PR?
6)thor would have been a HUGE information lynch. Look at how divisive everything around him is/was. From the way the wagon formed to how he was defended. Huge amounts of information that we could have looked over. There were counter-wagons and everything.
7)Basically it looks like you didn't hammer thor because you wanted to "look townie" even though you had multiple completely justified reason to do so. I admit I definitely wanted thor hammered and lynched because I think he's scum. The question is why DIDN'T you want thor hammered?
Well at this moment there is my question above and that would currently be an impediment to me.
There may be an explanation, Reinoe claims there is, I cant see it, time will tell, but we dont have much so town!Reinoe ought get on with it.
I am flying blind from memory here and sorry if I am wrong. (If so i got you mixed up with some other stellar player... ok?)
I believe:
You have town read on Thor, and its because of him, hunting scum even when under the pump(L-small), he was going down hunting scum...? yeah
Whats this
In post 4646, Nero Cain wrote:I know or think I know what he's saying but is still fucking stupid.