NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

[AxleGreaser]

Axle in terms of Boon I think you are giving him too much credit for thinking through his actions.

I don't really know what you mean by what the other team knows... if Boon claims PR and then BP what do they know? The BP claim is legit?

There is no way for them to decipher if that is a town, SK or scum claim. IF they had no PR's then yes, there is something in that, but evidently this isn't the case. Take for example the mafia with their Even night RB and compare to 1shot BP? seems fine to me but at the same time it could be a town PR there is no way to know. Obviously its also possible they have both of those PR's and wolves have 2 PR's and again there wouldn't be a way to know if the claim was Town/Scum/SK.

Spoiler: analysis of a hypothetical scum boon D1

known things

We know it is MB. So did the scum teams.
Both the scum teams without much effort or skill will observe they have 3 members and go "

WTF 3 man scum team in a large?

" At that point Boon or any scum will realise it is MB.
If they had had say 5 members, it is true they wouldnt know if there was an SK or not until they saw the kills. But we have flipped WW and maf so we dont need to think about that.
(do you want argue that this MB game can have 2 x 4 man scum teams? and its balanced somehow? See archive for examples of no.) (otherwise 3 man scum team knew it was MB)

In order for boon to play as he did, and fake a PR role D1 he had to be BP whether he is town or scum

If boon is scum and BP and he knows it is MB...
What is the MOST BLINDINGLY OBViOUS thing for him to guess the other team has?

if the other team has a BP, and boon fakes a PR gets shot, but doesnt die... he has effectively just about mod confirmed himself to the second team that he is the first teams BP.
if he is 2shot BP and scum...(nah) the other teams is MOST likely going to know that too.

I am sure you claim that he wouldnt know is MB. I am sure team size will have told him that.

I think you are claiming that asymmetric scum teams seems fine and perhaps they are. But in MB where the scum teams are vs one another and town.
BP is pretty big edge to give one team and not the other.

I think you claiming Boon will think the scum teams might be asymmetric where one has BP and the other does not, is giving him too much credit. AND i think it wont balance with BP on one team.

At the very least I claim that if scum boon was BP the obvious thing to think is the other team has a BP too. or at least for Boon to believe that is likely enough that making a d1 plan based on hoping it is asymmetric seems very unlikely to me.

Boon is town. (unless you can explain this away)

[AxleGreaser]

Gm spoke of Thor not only in thread but also in neighborhood. I'm quite certain that if there's one result she got, it was on Thor and it was incriminatory.

Beauty so tell what plausible incriminatory result a tracker GM got on Thor?

[AxleGreaser]

Gm spoke of Thor not only in thread but also in neighborhood. I'm quite certain that if there's one result she got, it was on Thor and it was incriminatory.

Beauty so tell what plausible incriminatory result a tracker GM got on Thor?

Oh and BTW I mean really make a plausible one up. (I tried and failed), your turn.

[AxleGreaser]

reinoe, Mafia Even-Night Roleblocker, has been lynched Day 2.

@MOD

This is a normal game... right?
Reinoe was not retrospectively lynched the previous day. k thx.

[AxleGreaser]

Like... she vote-parked him yesterday for the entirety of Day 3 even after fully stating that she was in favor of a beast lynch. There was opportunity to vote/hammer two separate slots yesterday, but she chose instead to stay parked on a Thor vote.

4739/4818 are posts that show a pretty concrete stance on the matter.

Oh yeah I am convinced, Gm wanted thor lynched. passionately.

You don't shut up about Thor

No,

I

don't shut up about Thor. This is because he's Scum who's

outmaneuvered me twice now

and

you're helping him do it again

.

Thor Jk'd GM N1.... (or is scum and very liekly RB'd GM D1) (that team would have an odd night RB?) (So it cant be Reinoes?)

best explanation I have for this

(

outmaneuvered me twice now

)
Someone else probably RB'd GM N2

and GM felt outmaneuvered twice.... and had no result.

[Flubbernugget]

Also I don't see any evidence that Thor didn't fakeclaim.

[Slandaar]

I think you are claiming that asymmetric scum teams

This is pretty standard.

I have never seen otherwise on MS except maybe no PR vs no PR but I can't remember seeing that either.

[Slandaar]

(I assume the reason for this is because it prevents what you are saying that scum PR cannot claim without the other team knowing they are scum)

[Slandaar]

Reinoe was not retrospectively lynched the previous day. k thx.

Calm Axle. Calm and composed.

[Slandaar]

Also I don't see any evidence that Thor didn't fakeclaim.

I don't see any evidence that he did fakeclaim.

We can all do that. I have looked earlier to see if GM ever called his claim fake and she didn't maybe she used a different word but what I saw she never argued his claim. This indicates she was RB'ed n1.

[Slandaar]

Someone else probably RB'd GM N2

That does fit with Reinoe being even night. It actually makes a lot of sense if they had a feeling GM was a PR because then it kind of sets up Thor too (who is obviously wolf/town not mafia)

[Flubbernugget]

I think the nk's also point to boons being a sk.

[Nero Cain]

I think the nk's also point to boons being a sk.

2 scum teams and an sk seems rather unlikely to me.

[Flubbernugget]

Why

[Nero Cain]

that's 3 possible nightkills a night. Even though this is a large its not THAT large.

[Flubbernugget]

Well we've had 3 nks last night so

[T S O]

does the word vig mean anything to you

[Nero Cain]

Well we've had 3 nks last night so

you mean night 2? I don't think one extra kill on one night proves the existence of an sk.

[Flubbernugget]

Is it non normal to have an x shot sk or something

Meh maybe I'm just over paranoid about boons.

[Flubbernugget]

I was thinking that 2 scumteams wouldn't wifom each other over who was making the investigative kills but I'm not very good with how cop/seer works in normals plus occam's razor kinda means it's not worth digging into.

[Nero Cain]

Is it non normal to have an x shot sk or something

Modifiers which are explicitly Normal include:
Even/Odd Night, Non-Consecutive Night,

X-Shot

, Bulletproof, Neighbor, Compulsive, Macho, Weak, Backup (with or without primary role present)

[T S O]

Yes, we've got two full scumteams and an x-shot SK! How fair!

[AxleGreaser]

(I assume the reason for this is because it prevents what you are saying that scum PR cannot claim without the other team knowing they are scum)

Yeah not many MB games in the list and the symmetric one I was remembering had, fire ice goons, not PR.

Still not liking a scum play that involves deliberately drawing a potential shot from the other team N1 just to strengthen the veracity of a town BP claim.

Speaking of which

who ever is shooting from shooting him again.

what makes you think anyone is shooting him?

The way his acting about his claim makes me feel like something made him panic.

does this make sense to people?

The original statement in 3053 seemed to have lot more certainty than someone who had just assumed Boon knew he had been shot n1 and so boon panicked.
Also i dont actually see what could be perceived as boon panic starting at the beginning of D2, also how does garmr reconcile boon panicking over being shot when the D1 play was designed to look like boon was drawing a shot to establish the D2 claim?
I don't get anything that makes sense except garmr knew boon had been shot. AND the only people who know if boon was shot n1 are the people that shot boon.

[AxleGreaser]

[... back ground for other questions you ALSO did not answer ... left out for brevity
"(11)Please show where i believed his claim." (you claimed I believed reinoes claim, please show any reason you mistakenly think that at all.)
"Do you have anything even vaguely resembling a scum read on me in that post?" (please explain your scum read on me, and what on earth 5358 has to do with it.)
...]

YOU

however claimed not to even know how Beast claimed his role works... while defending Beast.

Spoiler: context

If the game is MB then a town cop is threat to both factions

which

wastes the shot they could be eliminating the other faction with by shooting the cop

?

(1)

bolded #1

if this is MB and Beast is a cop he is only a threat to the mafia faction. How is he a threat to the WWs?

(2)

bolded @2 you are arguing that this is MB and that Beast could be scum. You are also arguing that scum would shoot at each other. You are now arguing that a shot on him would be a waste. This is very much a disconnect.

So the chnaces if the game is SB are pretty high of getting shot eventually. My point was however, it is not a suicide play by beast.

(3)

I think the chances of scum shooting a threat in mb are just the same as in singleball. I think that in MB a scum team would NOT wabt to kill all of the other team 'cause like...then we'd be focused on just that team.

(1)

because I read his posts... did you?

The most recent way he claims his role works is like this.

He said I got guilties on anti-town entities. Mafia or WW or SK or anything like that was not specified. I do know I get a false guilty on Millers though. Doubt that helps.

You said

bolded #1 if this is MB and Beast is a cop he is only a threat to the mafia faction. How is he a threat to the WWs?

(1)

because I read his posts... did you?

The most recent way he claims his role works is like this.

He said I got guilties on anti-town entities. Mafia or WW or SK or anything like that was not specified. I do know I get a false guilty on Millers though. Doubt that helps.

@nero

<<<<<<<<<<<

So please explain how you did not even know how his role worked if you were in any sense even vaguely trying to figure the game out?

@Nero

you didnt answer the question yesterday (5318 true the day ended,and it perhaps seemed rhetorical. Today its not.)
but now you have also not answered it when I brought it up again.

So please explain how you did not even know how his role worked if you were in any sense even vaguely trying to figure the game out?

[AxleGreaser]

Yes, we've got two full scumteams and an x-shot SK! How fair!

@TSO

in the spoiler is post by nero that makes statements about what you said in the hood.
Would you please verify and expand upon them

Spoiler: What nero has said that TSO said

So in my hood last night both me and TSO agreed that Axxle needs death. I am not sure if this means TSO is scum or if this is a sign of the apocalypse but I'm slightly leaning the later.

Though it was a lil' odd that he was arguing that me being in the hood made me scum despite arguing the former yesterday but *shrugz*

vote:Axxle

I am hoping it wasn't like a mob scene, where you guys just decided who needed death, then got out the pitch forks and torches and chanted kill the pig and you like actually played the game?
What did you discuss.

He thinks you may be scum, for the interaction what were your views on his posting in the hood?
and more stuff like that...