NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

[Nero Cain]

I do not think he was. Like scum is a catchall for anything that is anti-town. I and several players use that. A werewolf faction is STILL a mafia faction 'cause its a scum faction. I could see Beast being non specific and calling you mafia.

But ok, you guys lynch Beast and he flips town, who is scum and why?

[beastcharizard]

@Nero So you do not find Beast ambigius way weird ?

Also I did say He did't retract his claim and said he is gs BUT He did let it be implied that it might be possible when he said that he is going to ask the mod for clarification about his role cause he is not sure what he is finding people guilty of.

You are an experienced person right ? Tell me wouldn't a pm be specific about what your role does ?

Also I trust Rei over Beast. Rei claims to have a not mafia on Boon. We have a ww flip. Shocking I think we have mafia and ww instead of sk. Why would that be

no not really.

Yes a WW has flipped so we know there's a WW faction. We have a second unaccounted kill. That kill either came from a mafia or an sk. please explain how you you can tell the difference between a mafia kill and an sk kill. 'Cause to me that seems impossible and this whole "we obviously have a mafia team and not an sk" looks more like an agenda than anything based in sound reasoning.

Beast is fake claiming a "guilty" on me and claims I'm mafia. Why aren't you showing any skepticism towards that?

How many times do I have to say I assumed cop = mafia guilties? It isn't like it was a jump in logic, it was a very good assumption. It just seems it was wrong.

[Thor665]

nor are your role PMs misleading in any way

@Beast -

Let's watch the mod wriggle at Nero's question though.

[goodmorning]

It's not even that different from your question; we all know he's going to say he can't/won't answer it again.

[goodmorning]

I do not think he was. Like scum is a catchall for anything that is anti-town. I and several players use that. A werewolf faction is STILL a mafia faction 'cause its a scum faction. I could see Beast being non specific and calling you mafia.

...what.

a=c
b=c
a=b

is totally correct in math.
But this is not math.

WW=Scum
Mafia=Scum
Alien=Scum
Goo=Scum
WW=/=Mafia
WW=/=Alien
WW=/=Goo

and so forth.

Like, the kitchen is a room, and the bathroom is a room, but the kitchen is not the bathroom and what i am trying to say is

what the fuck

[Nero Cain]

So why aren't you voting Beast while clearly calling him scum?

[goodmorning]

Because I like my vanity wagon. I'll get on the beast wagon when I'm good and ready.

[Nero Cain]

if I voted Beast would you hammer, yes or no?

[Izariael]

I do not think he was. Like scum is a catchall for anything that is anti-town. I and several players use that. A werewolf faction is STILL a mafia faction 'cause its a scum faction. I could see Beast being non specific and calling you mafia.

...what.

a=c
b=c
a=b

is totally correct in math.
But this is not math.

WW=Scum
Mafia=Scum
Alien=Scum
Goo=Scum
WW=/=Mafia
WW=/=Alien
WW=/=Goo

and so forth.

Like, the kitchen is a room, and the bathroom is a room, but the kitchen is not the bathroom and what i am trying to say is

what the fuck

ilu gm.

[Izariael]

VOTE: beastcharizard

There's still room for

both

to be scum, but I think beast is more likely of the two to be scum.

[AxleGreaser]

How are you evaluating them?
I see no effort in that regard and would love to see you show your work.

Well, given that it's been a week of holiday festivites and overtime work with Black Friday and Cyber Monday, I've been busier than usual and haven't had much time for posting. I have tried to keep up with reading though.

I'm currently in favour of a beast lynch, though beast's comment of being of use tomorrow does ring as a valid claim. However, I do see rolecop on a non-town team as a distinct possibility and fits in with the sequence of events imo.

you appear in your analysis not to be considering this sequence

If beast is WW, and WW

consensus

last night was that Reinoe was in the mafia team, then if under pressure, WW faking red check on guessed scum Reinoe, would be ... cleverish? (not crack?)

So apart from the role cop reason

scum!

Beast might fake the claim, there is also the reason that

scum(WW)!

Beast may think Reinoe is mafia on the other team.

As both people I suspect of having TMI (being in a scum faction) about whther this is multiball or not, both claimed quite strongly that it is multiball today.
Reinoe here 4826

You'll all be happy to know that I got a not-mafia result on boonskies. Because that's how cops in multi-ball get results.

and Beast here

GM, I didn't want to put myself by calling reinoe mafia so I tried to get someone else to say mafia was in the game first so I didn't look look like a cop.

but has since claimed his cop ness, no longer implies he only checks for mafia. (His Pm gives guilty and not)

Id even go so far as to suggest that for me it is highly likely to be MB.

Sig improvement <yadda + Silly (Non Cookie Cutter) gambits: The designer drug of playing Mafia.>
pedit been ninja'd. meh

[Aegor]

Mod-In the hypothetical situation were there is only a werewolf faction and no mafia faction-would a cop get a guilty on a werewolf?

I confess that I am amazed that investigatory reading is not more common among players.

The Mafia wiki entry on the Cop answers your question thoroughly:

The Cop is a role that has the ability to investigate players at Night to discern their alignment...This version of the Cop, and only this version of the Cop, is considered Normal on mafiascum.net.
...
The exact wording of the Cop's result is not standardized, with the following options being most common.

• Mafia/Not Mafia - This only checks if the target is Mafia-aligned. Werewolves, Serial Killers or other third-party members thus have implicit investigation immunity.
  
• Town/Not Town - All non-Town players will return an incriminating result, even if they are benign in practice (e.g. Survivor or other third parties with nonstandard Win Conditions).
  
• Guilty/Not Guilty - Non-Town roles return incriminating or non-incriminating results depending on the moderator's decision.

Because all three wordings of the Cop results are considered Normal, it is possible that I would use any of the three.

[Nero Cain]

that's not really what I was asking but maybe its not as important as I first thought it was.

[Aegor]

that's not really what I was asking but maybe its not as important as I first thought it was.

If I had wanted to run an open setup, I would not be running a closed setup. That is my answer to your question and to any question whatsoever about the setup, wording of PMs or night results, or anything that is not a clarification of one's own role or one of the rules on the first page. This includes ostensibly hypothetical questions that are clearly being asked because my answer will have some impact on this game.

[AxleGreaser]

nor are your role PMs misleading in any way

@Beast -

Let's watch the mod wriggle at Nero's question though.

ninja'd by the mod!

Spoiler: Just in case i decide to mod

I will be able to link to here as my non mod confirming non alignment indicative response. I can be less PC here.

PSA:

Hypothetical ways players can find things out about hypothetically normal games.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... rmal_Roles

Hypothetical ways players can fail to find things out.

Try to play mafia against the mod instead of the players.

Hypothetical ways players can find out things about their own role.

In the event the PM despite pregame review was unclear, (or the player lacks the experience to understand the clearly expressed PM) Pming the mod may get you effectively an expanded PM about your role.
It may even point to which bits of wiki are meaningful.

Lastly fair warning

: playing mafia against the hypothetical Axle!mod would implicitly make you not on his team... and playing against his mod!wincon. Axle thinks Axle would be bad mod as he is inherently a bastard in such situations and he might stand close to the line.

[Nero Cain]

Axle, who is scum if Beast flips town?

[beastcharizard]

CLAIMING REAL ROLE!!!

I am really sorry I haven't caught up yet. Stupid math homework and real life.

I am not actually an even-night cop. I am actually a prime night cop. I can only investigate people on prime number nights. The best way I could think of to crumb is to say something about math, which I did in the above post.

That means last night was the first night I was able to investigate someone and tonight I can also investigate someone. I claimed Even-night because I figured the scum would keep me alive tonight so I could get a second result and be more useful to town before my inevitable death.

Now can we PLEASE lynch Reinoe.

[AxleGreaser]

Spoiler: more PSA

I do not think he was. Like scum is a catchall for anything that is anti-town. I and several players use that. A werewolf faction is STILL a mafia faction 'cause its a scum faction. I could see Beast being non specific and calling you mafia.

...what.

a=c
b=c
a=b

is totally correct in math.
But this is

not that kind of math

. This is

set theory math

. (BTW >>>>>everything<<<<< (that works consistently) is MATH)(tying knots in strings is topology... and so forth)

WW ⊂(is an element of the set) { Scum Factions }
Mafia ⊂(is an element of the set) { Scum Factions }
Alien ⊂(is an element of the set) { Scum Factions }
Goo ⊂(is an element of the set) { Scum Factions }

⊂(is an element of)

is not a symmetric operator

Thus it is clear that
WW =/=Mafia
WW=/=Alien
WW=/=Goo

and so forth.

Like, the kitchen is a room, and the bathroom is a room, but the kitchen is not the bathroom and what i am trying to say is

what the fuck

it is year 7(13 yr old) math for heavens sake.

PS for any current actual mathematicians in the room, yeah sorry.

[AxleGreaser]

Axle, who is scum if Beast flips town?

He claimed a red check on Reinoe. (as his awesome days play)
So if Beast flips town (and the game is normal no death millers(who lie about their flips)) then either Reinoe is scum or town probably deserves to lose.

did you have real question?

[AxleGreaser]

err LOL

[Nero Cain]

ok yeah. Ren is obv but there'd still be like 2-4 more scum. Any reason you are afraid to name names?

[AxleGreaser]

Axle, who is scum if Beast flips town?

This did not say name the whole team.

ok yeah. Ren is obv but there'd still be like 2-4 more scum. Any reason you are afraid to name names?

also you are asking me to speculate about he whole team under an assumption i have not been actively considering.

If I am wrong about beats I need to re-evaluate lots of stuff about how I play the game, and make reads and just how townies will plausibly play as i find his play highly implausible as town. However flip would change that.
The there are the associative tells. I know i am town but who else was pushing for a an unlikely l but you say hypothetical town beast. Which people were actually TMI wking and which were legitimate.

yeah if i am wrong about beast, I expect significant amounts of my current reads to change.

Afraid to name names? FFS.

I been voting and pushing TSO D1, Josh B D2 and voted him again at the start of today. There is some names.
I have had serious suspicions of GM's posting. I have questioned yours, I have ...gak only knows.

TSO and GM have played somewhat differently recently.

I have 700+ frickin posts and you having failed to troll the host want to drag me of down some hypothetical what if beast is town who is scum then path?

BTW something top of the mind of scum teams at this moment is working out which town patsy, to setup for lylo....
so yeah some of my reads and the reasons for them are mine.. and not in the thread yet. Are you claiming I should have said even more stuff....?

[beastcharizard]

Look at my change in claim. It makes complete sense and it very logical. You can't deny that I am town anymore.

[goodmorning]

Look at my change in claim. It makes no sense and is very illogical. You can't deny that I am Scum anymore.

FTFY

[beastcharizard]

Explain how it doesn't make sense.