NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

[Thor665]

It doesn't say guilty for what. It just says I can choose someone and get the stated result. I looked at my role PM when I was first asked to clarify.

So how do you even know guilty = scum then?
Maybe guilty = town. I mean, if it doesn't say, who is to know what it means - right?

@Mod - in a theoretical game with multiple scum factions of differing names, would you, as a mod, be likely to fail to inform a faction cop if he was a faction cop in his role PM?

[Thor665]

It would actually be hillarious if Beast was a Werewolf who was also a Cop.
If that happens I'll even restrain myself from mocking GM's play at the end of this game - otherwise it is open season on that sack of fail.

[Thor665]

Though even if that as the situation, Beast is playing poorly.

[reinoe]

This all screamS gambit to me...

Why pick you though? No offense meant - but of all the available people to choose to 1 v 1 with as a gambit risk - why would you be amongst the top three choices?

Beast is making a sacrifice play. Either someone on his team or beast himself rolecopped me. He immediately tried to discredit our roles as the same. Look at all the credit he's being given for claiming first. Despite the fact that nothing about his play makes sense, getting him to clarify is like pulling teeth, he can't seem to keep track of whether he was not reading the thread or pretending to not read the thread. Finally his v/la activity is the exact same as his non-v/la activity. That's not scummy on its own but it's yet another strange thing on an ever increasing list of strange things about beast's play.

[Thor665]

I find his play poor - but the only thing that fails to make sense to me is his description of his role PM.
I am working on that.

If I find it convincing I'll oppose your lynch - otherwise, to my mind, you are for the chop today.

Do you have any other reads you'd like to discuss while I'm working through this? Maybe get out a last reads offering prior to potential death?

[Thor665]

I will admit to doubt vis-a-vi running a sacrifice play to tag an even night cop.
I would feel bad for his scumbuddies if that was what he was doing - of course I feel sympathy for anyone aligned with him in this game...though that applies to a number of players.

[Boonskiies]

I had a thought over the night which could be wrong:

Would leaving them both alive do anything? It makes scum waste a nightkill on potentially both of them, and only 1 faction can actually shoot the real Cop, which would then get their teammate quicklynched.

Why would they shoot either in this situation? Able to mislynch on one of them, if I were scum I'd keep em both alive.

[beastcharizard]

This all screamS gambit to me...

Why pick you though? No offense meant - but of all the available people to choose to 1 v 1 with as a gambit risk - why would you be amongst the top three choices?

Beast is making a sacrifice play. Either someone on his team or beast himself rolecopped me. He immediately tried to discredit our roles as the same. Look at all the credit he's being given for claiming first. Despite the fact that nothing about his play makes sense, getting him to clarify is like pulling teeth, he can't seem to keep track of whether he was not reading the thread or pretending to not read the thread. Finally his v/la activity is the exact same as his non-v/la activity. That's not scummy on its own but it's yet another strange thing on an ever increasing list of strange things about beast's play.

Using V/LA as a scum tactic is against the rules is it not? If it isn't then it is at least morally wrong to do. I had plans this weekend, they were changed so I have more time now but less time later.

[beastcharizard]

I had a thought over the night which could be wrong:

Would leaving them both alive do anything? It makes scum waste a nightkill on potentially both of them, and only 1 faction can actually shoot the real Cop, which would then get their teammate quicklynched.

Why would they shoot either in this situation? Able to mislynch on one of them, if I were scum I'd keep em both alive.

With that theory they would leave me open to getting more results which would be dangerous. Lets say we have a vig and they shoot me down the road and I flip but have been pushing only certain people or claiming my results. That would leave the game in a bad situation for scum.

[T S O]

Crosskills, really.

[Thor665]

So how do you even know guilty = scum then?
Maybe guilty = town. I mean, if it doesn't say, who is to know what it means - right?

Hi Beast.

[beastcharizard]

In what universe does guilty mean town?

Let me ask the mod for clarification.

[beastcharizard]

Just waiting on a reply now.

[Thor665]

In what universe does guilty mean town?

A universe where the role PM doesn't tell you what 'guilty' means.
Guilty of what?
Maybe you're a gunsmith and only detect guns, it would explain Reinoe's claim and your result - your role PM doesn't seem clear.
I'm glad you're getting some clarification.

[beastcharizard]

I am a pro-gunsmith btw.

I think I would be called a gunsmith if I were one though.

Also, if I got a guilty on reinoe and I am a gunsmith that means...THEY HAVE A FREAKING GUN! What COP has a gun in mafia? Gun = can kill.

[reinoe]

I am a pro-gunsmith btw.

I think I would be called a gunsmith if I were one though.

Also, if I got a guilty on reinoe and I am a gunsmith that means...THEY HAVE A FREAKING GUN! What COP has a gun in mafia? Gun = can kill.

Cops have guns yo. Perhaps you've heard about Ferguson?

[Thor665]

I am a pro-gunsmith btw.

I think I would be called a gunsmith if I were one though.

Also, if I got a guilty on reinoe and I am a gunsmith that means...THEY HAVE A FREAKING GUN! What COP has a gun in mafia? Gun = can kill.

You are clearly the opposite of a pro-Gunsmith, because everyone knows that Gunsmiths get positive results on Cops as well as Mafia - that's how that role works.

I'm still waiting for your clarification from the mod.
I need to know what this theoretical "guilty" equates to.

[reinoe]

I will admit to doubt vis-a-vi running a sacrifice play to tag an even night cop.
I would feel bad for his scumbuddies if that was what he was doing - of course I feel sympathy for anyone aligned with him in this game...though that applies to a number of players.

That entire 5 person neighborhood (4 now) does feel town. At least one person who's been on Aneninen and Davesez is scum, but wouldn't be surprised if there's two.

Slaandar definitely fits. His focus on trying to catch me in these false gotcha moments is ugly. It's like he knows Beast is makng up crap but is ignoring all of it so that when I flip town cop he can just chain lynch. And isn't questioning beast about anything.

The amount of leeway being thrown beast's way is very educational about what a town is willing to tolerate when it comes to fake-claiming under pressure.

[Thor665]

That is nothing - you should see AP's fakeclaim he ran on me. it literally made no sense at all and was provably wrong. Town mislynched me anyways because town is dumb and sheeps PRs whenever they get the excuse to shut down their brains and not do that painful "thinking" business.

That said - I think Slandaar looks pretty townish and is approaching the situation fairly.
Your secondary in time claim would be silly to take at face value - the only way it even makes sense is if there is a rolecop in Beast's faction, and, frankly, a lynch of you could work for me just to help learn that.
Also, I'm really starting to doubt a suicide play run on you - because that is also required to have you be town (and, heck, the whole rolecop/suicide play applies equally if you're scum, really, so it's a very thin defense you're sitting on)

You being town gives us confirmed BP town in Boonderp though - which is at least amusing as scum lose that easy as pie mislynch.

[AxleGreaser]

I will admit to doubt vis-a-vi running a sacrifice play to tag an even night cop.
I would feel bad for his scumbuddies if that was what he was doing - of course I feel sympathy for anyone aligned with him in this game...though that applies to a number of players.

Why is the only possibility you consider is

it single ball and he is trying to lynch someone he thinks is town? (scum role copped, a town cop and fake premptively CC'd, instead of shooting)

If its multiball and he thinks or knows that reinoe is mafias... getting him lynched is bad how, especially vs the seeming to him possibility that the other faction was gunning to lynch him today?

You appear somewhat limited in the scope of your thinking. I am wondering if its an actual limitation or affectation.

Spoiler: a mans gotta know his limitations

I have been struggling with just how to do it?

Do what I did - ask him a direct question.
It's a secret and magical way of forcing a direct answer.

Really whoda thunk all those hours and practice I spent learning about open and closed questions, were just pshaw, and that direct questions always got what you want.

The problem was, that I wanted commitment without him going back and checking his own posts to make sure all his ducks were in a row.

Remember D1, you said "it was safe assumption...", but the thing was I knew of multiple interpretations of "safe assumption" (game theoretically safe play && statistically safe that its likely enough to be true, that it needs to be allowed for, && statistically more likely than not to be true). Getting you to say enough words to commit to one or the other of those when you didnt even know all three existed and were different and some were true and some were not..
Is yeah tricky.

Heaven and earth Horatio.

[beastcharizard]

I am 1 for 1 when I am a gunsmith so I am a pro. Gunsmith do see cops which was my mistake.

As soon as I get my clarification I will let you know.

[Thor665]

As you work on your pro skills - make sure to remember that cop part. it's important.

[beastcharizard]

I will. I also won't play with this strategy again. At least not when I replace in.

[AxleGreaser]

(and, heck, the whole rolecop/suicide play applies equally if you're scum, really, so it's a very thin defense you're sitting on)

scum!beast doesnt (or may not have absolute knowledge of Reinoes alignment)

If Beast believes reinoe is scum(mafia), and that he(believed to be scumreinoe) and reinoes (team mates) were doing push to lynch him, to secure mafia (not WW) as the way most likely non town faction to win... (3M vs 1 WW)
Then beast can make the play.

beast can be wrong.
so yeah we need not to do

Town mislynched me anyways because town is dumb and sheeps PRs whenever they get the

excuse to shut down their brains and not do that painful "thinking" business.

We have to decide for ourselves is Beast scum, fake claiming for one of several scenarios.

and even if he is fake claiming and scum

Does that make Reinoe scum or town or do we still have to do that awful thinking stuff?

Some things mean we can mainly take our thinking hats off....

If beast flips town cop at some point, it is very likely he didn't lie about the check.

If Reinoe flips town cop at some point, it is even more very likely he didn't lie about the check.

most other thing means we still ought mainly decide for ourselves.

In particular a scum mafia Reinoe flip does not mean absolutely Beast is town or a cop.
A scum beast flip, does not mean abolutely Reinoe was actually town cop.

I suggest we lynch scummy people.

I am voting beast as i find his actions and reasoning today scummy, convenient and shallow(façade like) .

[Thor665]

You basically used a lot of words to say very little there.