Mini 461 "24" Game Over. Roll Credits

[Xdaamno]

Talk about personal attacks, guardian...

Any reason why I should be bodyguard? Do you all think I'm really that wrong here?

[Yosarian2]

Still not going to make guardian FBI liason agent if I'm elected. That seems like positions we really want someone we can trust in; even if you "just" use it as a cop role like you claim, I still wouldn't really want a possible scum in a cop role.

Albert and UA might make good crypto agents. Not sure I trust Off The Mark, though; he seems to be trying WAY too hard to convince us all he's a confirmed innocent, when if he's a scum he could very easily have just read the rules post and decided to lurk until he was mod-prodded in order to pretend he didn't get a PM. And I also don't like the way he just tried to argue that "either he and albert are both town together or we're both scum" and tried to claim that they were basically "masons". Um, no, not at all. The whole tone of OTM's posts feels like that of a scum who's trying to make us think he's confirmed; Albert and UA have both made posts that have a pro-town feel to them, while OTM has been mostly trying to "prove" he's a good guy.

[CrashTextDummie]

Welcome, newcomers.

I find myself in the same position as Yosarian, in the sense that I find it hard to believe 3 players didn't notice the game going on for a week. I know both Albert B. Rampage and UltimaAvalon are playing other games in Coney Island, and think there is a distinct possibility that at least one of the late-comers did not post deliberately to set up this townie claim.

That said, I like UA's entry into the game the best out of the three, except for this little tidbit:

CrashTextDummie calls for prods after lurking himself.

I was asking for prods specifically for those who hadn't posted yet at all.

I find it a bit curious that you would associate asking for a prod on you with lurking, seeing as you're assuring us that that's not what you were doing at all.

Which is an issue that I don't think has been brought up or stated in the first post. Does the Director give a job and assignment, or does a Field Agent choose between Guarding someone or assassinating? Everyone seems convinced the Director contrls absolutely everything, but I've seen nothing to confirm this. I'd also like to know if Position assignments will be made public or private. Otherwise this whole "we need bodyguards protecting X Role" is bunk, as the only person we know is what role is The Director.

If the town tells the bodyguard to protect person X, he has no choice but to comply. If the guy he protected dies, we lynch him.

On the other hand, I did not consider that the Field Agent is a vig-type role in addition to being a bodyguard (and a whole bunch of other things we don't really want in the hands of scum), so the "assign scummish players bodyguard duty" plan might need some work.

However, when I did the read-through, Guardian seemed like a bit of an impulsive nutjob to me, so I don't want him in charge either. He seems to judge people waaayyy too quickly for my liking.

How about this idea?

vote: Albert B. Rampage for director.

I know from personal experience that Albert B. Rampage is an even bigger nutjob than Guardian. He is a reckless, thoughtless, gambiting kind of player, and I'd rather pull all my hair out individually than see him with a role as paramount as Director. Regardless of his alignment.

I'll do a thorough read-through today or tomorrow to answer my own questions. Glad we got the deadline extended.

[Yosarian2]

CTD: I think the "assasination and abduction" part of the "field agents" job is mostly in relation to outside work, helping Jack and all that. Reading the role, it dosn't sound like a field agent can assasinate or abduct a player in the game.

[Off the Mark]

Yos, you seem to focus on odd things when you read my posts. The only way you could possibly think that the focus of my posts has been to prove myself innocent is that either you were suspicious of me from the very beginning for some odd reason or you are simply scum and trying to throw up a smokescreen here.

Anyway, I think Guardian is making a mistake when he says the SIA role might be a good place to stick suspicious players. These roles can be as good as CIA's as they get to track communication with the mod (i.e. terrorist actions) and they can falsify info. The only roles that would be somewhat safe are the Liaison roles with the exception of the FBI Liaison. Field Agent roles would also be good for suspicious players because we could order them to be bodyguards. They might have some dangerous capabilities in that role, like assassination, but they would immediately identify themselves as terrorists if they did not follow orders.

[Yosarian2]

But yeah, the point about the town telling the field agent who to target was upmost in my mind. If the field agent is pro-town but scummy looking, then the scum probably don't want him dead, so they'll avoid going after the person he's protecting; if the field agent is scum, then the scum can't afford to kill the person he's supposed to be protecting.

However, we can't direct all the field agents; we've got at least 4 people we want to protect (counter-intellegence+3 cryptos, and perhaps others) and only 3 bodyguards to do it, so we'd probably want at least some of the field agents to not annoucne their choices to keep the scum guessing. Which means that not ALL of the field agents can be scummy looking people.

[CrashTextDummie]

Mod: Could you please outline in detail what actions each role can take, and what effect each action has, if it's not too much hassle. Editing the first post would suffice.

[Xdaamno]

Indeed. Out of some abilities, there's only a few I can even guess, such as arresting might be roleblocking.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If you believe I'm most likely town, I want to be counterintelligence. I feel it is one of the most useful roles to route the terrorists.

@CTD: I use watched topics exclusively, I never do it manually.

[CrashTextDummie]

However, we can't direct all the field agents; we've got at least 4 people we want to protect (counter-intellegence+3 cryptos, and perhaps others) and only 3 bodyguards to do it, so we'd probably want at least some of the field agents to not annoucne their choices to keep the scum guessing. Which means that not ALL of the field agents can be scummy looking people.

One possibility would be to assign one Field Agent to bodyguard all the Cryptos. That Field Agent would have to privately announce to the Director who he's protecting, but leave the rest of the town in the dark. That way, it would be a significant gambit for the scum to target one of the Cryptos, as there's a good chance their kill will go to waste. The Director could even arrange for Intel to be sent to that protected Crypto, to eliminate the chance of losing Intel.

Obviously, we'd have to be absolutely certain the Director is town for this to work.

[CrashTextDummie]

Actually, if the Director has to privately direct intel to the protected Crypto, he can't screw us over even as scum unless the person giving the intel AND the Field Agent is scum as well.

(unless I've missed something, I didn't really think this one through)

[Xdaamno]

CTD, your game theory is generally better than Yos's... but I'm not sure how this correlates to scum/townishness atm.

[Albert B. Rampage]

However, we can't direct all the field agents; we've got at least 4 people we want to protect (counter-intellegence+3 cryptos, and perhaps others) and only 3 bodyguards to do it, so we'd probably want at least some of the field agents to not annoucne their choices to keep the scum guessing. Which means that not ALL of the field agents can be scummy looking people.

One possibility would be to assign one Field Agent to bodyguard all the Cryptos. That Field Agent would have to privately announce to the Director who he's protecting, but leave the rest of the town in the dark. That way, it would be a significant gambit for the scum to target one of the Cryptos, as there's a good chance their kill will go to waste. The Director could even arrange for Intel to be sent to that protected Crypto, to eliminate the chance of losing Intel.

Obviously, we'd have to be absolutely certain the Director is town for this to work.

That's a horrible idea because its placing too much confidence in the director. My level of trust in Yosarian is higher than some others, but definitely not to the point where we would give him that kind of information.

Look, the director can assign roles and talk privately. We can "sway" the director into assigning certain positions, but we cannot control what he says to who. Giving a scum the director position is one thing, giving him the control of the game is another.

[CrashTextDummie]

As I said, I don't think there's much room for abuse.

I agree that putting that much trust into a single player, whether scum or town, may not be a good idea, though.

[Albert B. Rampage]

As I said, I don't think there's much room for abuse.

I agree that putting that much trust into a single player, whether scum or town, may not be a good idea, though.

This plan is not going to work. In the end, the scum could just kill the analyst and cut the cryptos of all information.

[CrashTextDummie]

The analyst is not the only role providing intel. And we can assign a Field Agent to protect the analyst.

The reason I brought the theory up in the first place is that we don't have enough Field Agents to protect as many roles as we'd like. The obvious solution is to have the Field Agents not announce who they're gonna protect, which presents a problem as the current plan is to have the scummy types as field agents.

[Guardian]

Yos. Firstly, I am town, besides being suspicious of you and CTD, I don't really see what warrants me being more scummy than other players.

YB and Korran chose to associate with me. Xdaamno has been pushing suspicion on me all game. I have no control over either of those things.

On the other hand, I have contributed loads strategy wise, have made my suspicions and suspicions of who I think is town clear, and have contributed thoughtfully and meaningfull the whole game. I am a PM-less vanilla, I am a townie, and I really don't like how you are sweating me being in a cop position. You admit I couldn't really harm the game other than false cop results which I would be punished for, and you still don't want me there?? Would you be more comfortable with me as CIA and CTD as FBI(I use CIA as short for counterintelligence agent, FYI)?

I think SIA's and the CIA are great for players who are good but under suspicion; they don't get results,

they get codes that go to crypto

. A scum CIA or SIA can't really do much bad, because all they get are codes the go to cryptos. We really need pro town people in director, the three crypto roles, and the liaisons.

I still think I would be a good director. I would utilize the office PM thing a lot and keep a detailed list of all the info we have, and I would share that with my deputy. That way, there would always be someone who had a full idea of what was going on in the game, even when we didn't want the cryptos to necesarily make their results public.

CTD, I take your points into consideration about Albert. I think he might do a good job, but UA looks equally town to me and I think also might do a good job.

I shify my focus: We should have

Yos, me, or UltimaAvalon

as the first director, it seems.


Just fyi, as director:

Director: Guardian
Deputy: UltimaAvalon / Yos once Yos is cleared
CIA: CTD
SIA: ChanelDelBird
SIA: Eyceking
Crypto: OffTheMark
Crypto: Korran
Field Agent/BodyGuard on OTM: Xdaamno
Field Agen/On Call/Switchable: Spambot
White House:YB
FBI:Yos/UA if Yos gets cleared
NSA:Albert

Many of these I definitely would want imput on; I feel good about CTD as CIA, CDB as SIA, OTM as Crypto, and Xdaamno as a bodyguard, though.

[Yosarian2]

Yos, you seem to focus on odd things when you read my posts. The only way you could possibly think that the focus of my posts has been to prove myself innocent is that either you were suspicious of me from the very beginning for some odd reason or you are simply scum and trying to throw up a smokescreen here.

The reason I think that you've been mostly trying to prove you're a confirmed innocent is because most of your posts look like attempts on your part to create and re-inforce the idea that you and Albert are confirmed innocents. My guess at this point is that you're scum and you're trying to latch onto a pro-town Albert.

In your first real post...

Anyway, yeah having the roles not sent by PM was a big mistake by the mod IMO. I am finding myself agreeing with Albert that anyone posting soon after the thread started is suspicious.

...
How about this idea?

vote: Albert B. Rampage

for director.

We need someone we can trust and he is my pick because I am sure he is in the same boat as me. I had no idea this game had started until I got a prod and it seems he is in the same situation.

Trying to re-inforce the idea that you and albert are confirmed innocents together.

In your next post

3. Which player do you trust least?
The lurking ones. Who haven't posted. At all. Other than that... maybe I don't know. Too early in the game to be certain about things like that.

eyecking was giving me scum vibes from the beginning but this post puts him over the top. Given that the mod didn't send out PM's to townies, that seems like an obvious answer to me as to why players are lurking. But if you DID receive a PM, (as I believe eyecking did) perhaps this would not occur to you. It's also a convenient excuse to deflect suspicion.

FOS: eyecking

Again repeating the idea that all lurkers are pro-town.

I knew I signed up for this game, I just assumed it hadn't started yet because I hadn't received a PM. I don't have any other games going in Coney Island, I think I checked in this forum once to see if 24 was here but it wasn't on the front page at the time, so I just kept waiting for my PM.

An excuse for why you hadn't noticed the game, again trying to convince us you didn't get a PM and are therefore town.

That's quite a fantasy you cooked up there, Yos.

FOS: Yosarian2

Attacking me for daring to question your claim that you are a confirmed pro-town. Very suspicious.

Albert, what convinces you Yos is town? I would be much more comfortable with a director who we are sure is town.

I'm sure Albert is town because we both did not get a PM and found about the game when we got prodded. You say we could have plotted this from the beginning as scum, but from my perspective, I know that didn't happen. So in my book, we're practically a mason group.

Trying to use argument through repition here to convince us that "we are sure" that you and Albert are town. I especally don't like the craplogic here where you call you and Albert a mason group and imply that either you're both scum together or you're both town, when it's certanly possible that he's telling the truth about not noticing and you decided not to post intentionally, or vice versa. Again, I'm thinking that you're scum and Albert is town, and you're trying to latch on to him and buddy up with him.

So, yeah. That's why I think most of your posts are a focused effort to convicne us all that you're a confirmed innocent. It looks to me like that's been your main goal so far, and that makes me distrust you.

[Yosarian2]

Guardian: It's not that I don't want scum to be cops because I think they'll fake results, because they probably wouldn't (although I'm not entierly sure, as the town then wouldn't know if it was the cop or the crypto who faked the results). The main reason I don't want scum to be in our cop positions is for the obveous reason that then the cops wouldn't catch any scum, and would probably just "confirm" people as innocents who the scum were planning on killing anyway.

And I've already explained why I don't trust you at the moment, Guardian; the link between you and Yogurt looks scummy to me.

[Yosarian2]

I think SIA's and the CIA are great for players who are good but under suspicion; they don't get results,

they get codes that go to crypto

. A scum CIA or SIA can't really do much bad, because all they get are codes the go to cryptos.

Note that the mod did warn us also that scum in those roles can fake the codes so the crypto will get bad information.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't think we need any liaisons in the first few hours.

Mod: How long does it take to re-assign positions ?

We

could

follow your plan, but we are going to need a hell lot of manpower. 2 analysts, 3 cryptos, 1 bodyguard for each group.

That's 9/12 roles out already. That's why I'm against this plan.

I think counterintelligence is vital to have, and this position needs a bodyguard too. I volunteer for that position.

For the first 4 hours, we could mix these two strategies, and have 2 analysts, 3 cryptos, 3 bodyguards, 1 counterintelligence, 1 director and 1 deputy and 1 more position.

Mod: Can cryptos analyze more than one transmissions at a time ?

[Xdaamno]

Just fyi, as director:

Director: Guardian
Deputy: UltimaAvalon / Yos once Yos is cleared
CIA: CTD
SIA: ChanelDelBird
SIA: Eyceking
Crypto: OffTheMark
Crypto: Korran
Field Agent/BodyGuard on OTM: Xdaamno
Field Agen/On Call/Switchable: Spambot
White House:YB
FBI:Yos/UA if Yos gets cleared
NSA:Albert

Many of these I definitely would want imput on; I feel good about CTD as CIA, CDB as SIA, OTM as Crypto, and Xdaamno as a bodyguard, though.

I have to disagree with almost all of this, mainly because you've given hardly

any

reasons why you want this setup.

[Guardian]

Well, your reason for disagreeing with it does cripple it as being a good setup, that is for sure. . *cough* hypocrisy *cough*

And I did give reasons for why I think people would be good in each position. Read, please.

I think the setup itself is good because the catch all scum plan is the best win condition to go for, and I think we should heavily focus on that with just a few laisions to keep our options open. We need two crypto minumum, though I would be welcome to three. We want both the FBI agent and the CIA looking for scum, we have SIA's maybe catching scum slips, we have field agents protecting critical roles, and we have the White House making the FBI even more useful, and have the NSA as a backup plan/to help with intel.

Yos, read all the games I am in. There are three current I believe and a fourth where he died. Note how I feel I have a great read on him in all of them. Note how the reverse is true. Note how this is not a scum tell...

[Yosarian2]

How does the CIA help us catch scum, exactally?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yos, your most likely to be elected, what are your thoughts on the usefulness of the counterintelligence agent ?