NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #3975 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:13 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3968, davesaz wrote:Regarding Beast, I don't think we have time to force enough interaction to accurately read. Lynching TSO would give us the ability to associate either way the flip goes, while Beast gives us next to nothing on associations. IIRC...

This is a bad reason not to vote Beast.
You also had all day today to try to force interactions - how about we force an L-1 counterwagon and see what we learn from that, you're always allowed to move if he makes you read him as scum during that period.

In post 3971, Shiro wrote:@Thor In case I am musreading this. Did u feel like slander was trying to be your buddy during day 2 ?

No, clearly when I openly called out that he was buddying and defending me in a weird way what I meant was 'I am not getting any buddying or defending vibes from him in any way'

Why are you talking about Slandaar when voting Garmr?
Do you scumread me - if so you should be voting me now.
Do you town read me? If so you should be doing something to advance your Garmr case or be getting off of him and doing "anything at all" with your vote.

In post 3972, The Fonz wrote:I want you to expand 'did a cop out' and how you think his attitude appears to have changed, and what you think that implies.

He did a cop out - I called it a dodging a question when he did it. We had a discussion for about a page on it.
His attitude changed because then he started fighting me.
I personally think it shows poor play, but am asking Tier about it because he townread it.

In post 3972, The Fonz wrote:Please don't call me a Smurfing lurksack.

Then stop being one.

In post 3972, The Fonz wrote: For one, I've provided more actual content than Flub.

Congratulations, you are less of a lurksack than another lurksack?

In post 3972, The Fonz wrote:But mostly, when you're absurdly pressed for time and spending half your waking, non-working hours on a game, it's annoying as Smurf. I'm obviously giving my Smurfing everything to scumhunting here, and other people having more free time does not make me a godSmurf lurksack.

It is not obvious that you are giving everything.
The game day is almost over, you are on a useless wagon, and you are not doing anything to advance an L-1 situation or to press the action, or to affect a deaadline lynch of a player you claim to read as town.
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Post Post #3976 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:17 am

Post by Scripten »

First of all, sorry about the wall. A lot of my case revolves around the trajectory of Garmr's posts, and without examples, I won't have any context to go on.

Spoiler: Why Garmr is hypocritical, opportunistic scum
In post 348, Garmr wrote:
In post 347, Muffin wrote:
In post 346, Garmr wrote:I'm going to be honest I'm lost now and don't know what to think.


UNVOTE: toby

Shittyvote is shitty


Will agree with you as tobys now in my null-town list. I took a step back and looked at her whole posts as a whole. I think I was just paranoid.

In post 942, Garmr wrote:
In post 863, Aneninen wrote:
Garmr
– Hard question. He's been after the wrong players all the time (not only because of his vote for me, I mean Toby and Boonskiies too) and I don't know whether it comes from a town or a scum mindset. Unsorted.



Everyone can be sorted into three mind sets town,third party and scum. I operate from a scum mindset (In any game) and that changes the way I hunt for scum. Basically my filters different but it has worked in past games. Because of that I enjoy scum games more and if you look into my past scum games you can see the effort and time I put into each masterpiece. I'm currently trying to improve my town game since I feel like I mastered scum and tbh to me it looks like you have town mindset playing a scum game. People with town mindsets tend to have difficulty hiding flaws as scum.



anyway

some reads I haven't really talked about.

Scripten
- I don't know what think of this guy his post are dull and i'm curious about his defenation of town cred is and why anyone who is voting him would get it. and tbh his vote on pere looks like a little bit of a off.
null-scum


EGG- Egg is a weird read I like some of his posts(452 for example) even through I don't agree with his conclusions (his veiw on pere). But him being wrong doesn't make him scum -I feel comfortable placing him as town.

davesaz- tbh he has a lot of wording in his post and I don't like some of conclusions. In my eyes he hasn't really impacted the game so null.

In post 1247, Garmr wrote:
In post 1246, Scripten wrote:
In post 1244, Garmr wrote:
In post 1179, Nero Cain wrote: "If it is multiball all you had to do was wait one day and you could of keeped it hidden from scum." is p silly. Scum already know if its mb or not.

Potential scumslip

I think nero just slipped he confirmed that scum know it's multiball


Ehhh... I called it out, but I'm not scumreading him too hard for it. Jumping on tiny things like that pushes mislynches. I disagree that it's worth calling it a scumslip.

P-Edit - TBH, even if it didn't have the "or not."


So you do find it scummy through? Since you don't think it's a slip what reason do you find it scummy for?

In post 1420, Garmr wrote:
In post 1419, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1417, Garmr wrote:But I'll take your word on it since fferys like a mentor to me.


Err this makes no sense. I suggest you go back and think that thought again.

I talk about fferlyt trajectory in terms of failing to follow the recent thread, as a natural flow, (also as it wont have been clear so far) while TSO is in the center of that feel.
That has no (known) connection to multiball.

Once you brought up multiball, in
I did also talk about multiball and say
"Yeah if its multiball, rather lot of common tells go away. Scum can still however be faking it, as survival is stronger instinct in scum as there are fewer of them scum hunting has risks, if you personally start pinging on guys in the other scum team they may NK you as a seemingly dangerous townie. So scum in multiball (I hypothsise) still will play different, but it will be harder to find them but there will be more of them?
Also at least one multiball scum player wants to be the one scum under the radar player the other team cant find."

That bit has no "fferlyt trajectory" in it

and finally even if it did appeal to your authority is bad logic.

This is getting weird again. What kind of weird, I don't know.
As I am not pushing this exchange in any useful direction (I think I am being responsive) I suggest we stop unless you are getting something out of it.


Your right it won't further the game state But I am interested in interacting with you, I find it easier to understand someone if I'm interacting with them but I guess that was a awkward attempt to start an interaction because to be honest I don't know what subject to start with and I been trying to think of something for a while. So I'm going to reach out to you for this.

In post 1559, Garmr wrote:@Pere and thor

I think I'm falling asleep with this thor vs Pere thing can't you two resolve this.
You could put up a final case on each other then wait for like 3-6 days while focusing on other things then come back after providing reads and pushing other people. Whats the point of clogging up day 1 with just a case on one person. Your just filling walls upon walls and you stop addressing your views on other people with this tunneling.

In post 1638, Garmr wrote:
In post 1628, Muffin wrote:
Why does this make an axlegreaser vote more palatable to you than an aneninen vote? It seems to me this ought to reinforce your scum read on aneninen the scum bro, should it not?


A axle lynch is more telling at this point. His the one that doesn't want to mention what he think of annienen his the one avoiding the subject. Look at the recent stuff his been posting that's not town.

In post 1846, Garmr wrote:
In post 1845, AxleGreaser wrote:so far he is getting away with it, and youre town reading him for it? (as its got no percentage except you town reading him for it?)


You agree that boonskies is being boonskies right?

In post 2000, Garmr wrote:
In post 1999, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1886, Garmr wrote:@axle oh well the misunderstanding caused me to meta tso which is a positive thing.


If TSO is “so easily bullied into things.”

In post 1998, Garmr wrote:Unlike tso I'm not so easily bullied into things.


What did this post mean and why?

In post 1960, Garmr wrote:
In post 1955, T S O wrote:Fucking fine.

Vote: PeregrineV


If that'll get you off my fucking back, great.


How to shatter a town read by tso.

It means the fact that tso gave in ruined my image of him. I had a image that tso took no shit and stood for what he believed in like me but the fact he caved into thor so easily ruined that image of him.

In post 2517, Garmr wrote:UNVOTE: ane


VOTE: pere

Because I don't want a no lynch


So, to summarize, let's take a look at a few points.

- Garmr has spent the whole game interacting almost exclusively with other players who were obviously either VI or wall-builders.
- Notably, he's mostly spent the game pushing on Axle, Anen, and occasionally Csareo early on.
- If you look in the spoiler above, you'll notice how he calls Thor out for tunneling PereV, but he wants to tunnel Axle D2!
- Waffles on several players for doing certain things, then does the exact same thing not that much later on.
- Again, go to the spoiler for examples, but pay specific attention to his interactions with TSO and Thor.
- Garmr pushes an Anen case almost all of D1, but he backs off before it actually could have led to a townie lynch. He spends most of D1 and D2 pushing Axle and helps clog up the thread instead. (He even admits that he's not trying to push the game state!)

Now, can we lynch scum and call it a day? There's no point in lynching even a soft-claimed power role at this point in the game.
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Post Post #3977 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:18 am

Post by Shiro »

Yea useless vote is useless gamr wagon reached oblivion


UNVOTE

VOTE:SLANDAR
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Post Post #3978 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:21 am

Post by Thor665 »

@Scripten - nice case. That wagon is dead though. Please react to the current pushes.

WOuld you be willing to vote Thor, Slandaar, GM, or Beast?
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Post Post #3979 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:24 am

Post by Scripten »

In post 3977, Shiro wrote:Yea useless vote is useless gamr wagon reached oblivion


UNVOTE

VOTE:SLANDAR


So wait, you consider your vote on the leading wagon that isn't on a softclaimed PR useless, so you move it onto a totally new wagon?

WTF?

Thor665:
How is this wagon dead? Because Garmr replaced out? I must be missing something, so can you help me out here?

Also, I'd be up for voting GM, Beast, or Slandaar, in that order. I'd not vote Slandaar unless it were deadline, though.
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Post Post #3980 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:26 am

Post by Thor665 »

The Garmr wagon last had life about a week ago - if that doesn't make it dead I don't know what does.

How about you vote GM just to see what happens?
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Post Post #3981 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:28 am

Post by Shiro »

Scripten read the air. Nobody is willing to vote the slot so yea it is pretty dead.

Slandar vote is useless right now but as u can see I am trying to make it something.

Did u even read what I posted about Slandar or just expressed wtf ?
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Post Post #3982 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:28 am

Post by Shiro »

Scripten read the air. Nobody is willing to vote the slot so yea it is pretty dead.

Slandar vote is useless right now but as u can see I am trying to make it something.

Did u even read what I posted about Slandar or just expressed wtf ?
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Post Post #3983 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:34 am

Post by davesaz »

Can you refresh the case against GM? I want to see what you point out and compare that to other material where alignment is known.
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Post Post #3984 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:38 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3983, davesaz wrote:Can you refresh the case against GM? I want to see what you point out and compare that to other material where alignment is known.

For me, I just find the slot useless and a better lynch than me due to useless.
That's also my case on Beast.
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Post Post #3985 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:39 am

Post by Thor665 »

If I voted TSO - it would also be my case on him.
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Post Post #3986 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:40 am

Post by Shiro »

@Thor if that is the case would u consider a slander wagon ?
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Post Post #3987 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:44 am

Post by Thor665 »

Nah. I am mild town on Slandaar.
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Post Post #3988 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:50 am

Post by Shiro »

In post 3987, Thor665 wrote:Nah. I am mild town on Slandaar.


Why ?

And if so can u tear my case to pieces so I can consider joining yours instead ?

He claimed a while ago that he has been pushing wagons and hard at that. Do u think that is true ?

Do u think he is being usefull "pushing" the gamr wagon ?
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Post Post #3989 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:56 am

Post by davesaz »

I just looked at Slandaar. He's pretty liberal with town reads, but doesn't seem to actually back them with any reasons. I think I'm seeing some pushes, but they are always on wagons which aren't going to go anywhere. And I see a lot of defending the leading wagon, whatever it might be at the time.

Scum analysis: A scum player might do the defend the mislynch thing to establish cred and then repeat it on a partner. The naked town reads could be a mixture of partners and legit townies, so when the legit ones flip he gets cred. I'd say this is a very risky strategy if it turns out to be MB, but good scum play if it is not. Risk averse scum would avoid things like the guardian angel thing, but gambity players might attempt it.

Town analysis: A town player might defend strong town reads this way. I have seen others say that it is bad to explain town reads because it tells scum what to do to get by you. Town might feel more comfortable with the light hearted guardian angel thing. I don't remember seeing as much pressuring of targets who are out of the limelight as I'd like to see from town. See my poke at Egg (accompanied by slash at Thor) for a (fairly weak and unsuccessful) example. I wouldn't call his pushes on "topical" players especially hard.

Slandaar could be scum if he's a gambit style player. If he tends to be risk averse then it's more likely he's town but it would be a weak read.
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Post Post #3990 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:03 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3988, Shiro wrote:And if so can u tear my case to pieces so I can consider joining yours instead ?

He claimed a while ago that he has been pushing wagons and hard at that. Do u think that is true ?

Do u think he is being usefull "pushing" the gamr wagon ?

1. I didn't say I had a strong town read on him. I don't find your case telling but I have little desire to go to bat for the slot either based on my read.

2. Not really, but then I don't think that's true of basically anyone in this game so maybe my standards are insane.

3. No - but I would paint everyone, including yourself, who was voting Garmr with that same brush, so I don't think it's a valid issue to call someone scum over.
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Post Post #3991 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:12 am

Post by Shiro »

@Dave

Who did he push ? Gm was his main vote day 1and she doesnt even remember getting pushed.

His vote was parked on me the whole day 2 and his push was weak. He switched to gamr and he didnt even attempt to push that.

@Thor

1 Eh at least direct me as to why it is not telling or at least not better than anything else

2. Your standar are pretty high then. I mean there is a wagon on u and Axl pushed gamr pretty hard

3.Sure but Axl.Scripten and I at least tried to push and although admitidly I was late to switch my vote I pushed Sland. He did nothing of that sorts.
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Post Post #3992 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:18 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3980, Thor665 wrote:The Garmr wagon last had life about a week ago - if that doesn't make it dead I don't know what does.

being the largest wagon apart from the one on you.
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Post Post #3993 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:25 am

Post by Shiro »

In post 3992, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3980, Thor665 wrote:The Garmr wagon last had life about a week ago - if that doesn't make it dead I don't know what does.

being the largest wagon apart from the one on you.


Still dead

Scripten pushed a bit then lurked and now posted a case
I pushed a bit but switched to slandet
Slander did nothing
You tried but none was seeing your points.

Hey what do u think on my case on slandar ? What do u think of slandar in genrtal Would u be willing to vote him ?
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Post Post #3994 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:26 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3980, Thor665 wrote:The Garmr wagon last had life about a week ago - if that doesn't make it dead I don't know what does.

How about you vote GM just to see what happens?


VOTE: GM
VOTE: Garmr

Not much.

So despite it being nice case you still want to dismantle this wagon?

I tend yo vote people who are scummy based on nice cases.

"
ooo the Garmr wagon was so last week,
"

doesnt really cut it as a scum read, or a reason to vote someone else.

and yeah while I am prepared to vote GM today, for the reasons I posted in the thread.

How about you post a nice case on GM and see what happens.
because unless I see a better case on someone other than Garmr I wont be voting anyone else, until it becomes required.

(oh and nice case, for me, has specific details not hand wavy generalisations)
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Post Post #3995 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:32 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3993, Shiro wrote:Hey what do u think on my case on slandar ?


dont like it
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Post Post #3996 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:33 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3991, Shiro wrote:1 Eh at least direct me as to why it is not telling or at least not better than anything else

2. Your standar are pretty high then. I mean there is a wagon on u and Axl pushed gamr pretty hard

3.Sure but Axl.Scripten and I at least tried to push and although admitidly I was late to switch my vote I pushed Sland. He did nothing of that sorts.

1. The case is basically 'he is wuss pushing' to which my reply is 'so is basically everyone'.

2. The wagon on me is based on idiocy and no one is pushing it and the only reason it is a threat is it's sitting there as the biggest with no one doing anything else with their vote. that wagon is dead too - but by dint of deadline is currently the most likely to happen.

3. Sure.

In post 3992, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3980, Thor665 wrote:The Garmr wagon last had life about a week ago - if that doesn't make it dead I don't know what does.

being the largest wagon apart from the one on you.

That doesn't make it a healthy wagon.

In post 3994, AxleGreaser wrote:and yeah while I am prepared to vote GM today, for the reasons I posted in the thread.

Then vote her - or tell me the 1-2 people you see as about to vote Garmr. Either response is viable in my opinion.
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Post Post #3997 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:40 am

Post by goodmorning »

In post 3970, davesaz wrote:I actively tried to push it, and Thor promptly tied me up in knots. There is definitely a tone thing there, but there is a fine line between scum playing the town like a fiddle, and a strong townie casting nets and gutting the fish who wander into them.

He is a very strong debater, as I've said.

But what of my point that he hasn't given strong opinions? What of my point that he's spending all his energy today on ad hom attacks? It's not only his tone anymore.

In post 3980, Thor665 wrote:How about you vote GM just to see what happens?

lololololololololololololololol

In post 3983, davesaz wrote:Can you refresh the case against GM? I want to see what you point out and compare that to other material where alignment is known.

He doesn't have one. He's just trying to discredit me with votes now and hoping I drop my push.

At any rate he ought to know how useless I am in Larges, since we were in LN169 together and I lurked out most of D1 and D2. Further, he ought to know it's not alignment-indicative for me, given that I was a Mason in that game. Further, there are WAY more useless people than me in this game, so if he wants to wagon someone for uselessness, why me? Because I'm actively threatening him.

Even if you don't think anything else he's done is scummy, surely his reaction to my case on him qualifies.
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Post Post #3998 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:41 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3996, Thor665 wrote:Then vote her - or tell me the 1-2 people you see as about to vote Garmr. Either response is viable in my opinion.


I tend to vote people who are scummy based on nice cases.

"ooo the Garmr wagon was so last week, "

doesnt really cut it as a scum read, or a reason to vote someone else.

How about you post a nice case on GM and see what happens.

because unless I see a better case on someone other than Garmr I wont be voting anyone else, until it becomes required.

(oh and nice case, for me, has specific details not hand wavy generalisations)
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Post Post #3999 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:42 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 3984, Thor665 wrote:
In post 3983, davesaz wrote:Can you refresh the case against GM? I want to see what you point out and compare that to other material where alignment is known.

For me, I just find the slot useless and a better lynch than me due to useless.
That's also my case on Beast.


Really? And you expect anyone to vote that?
Tell me again, what are your contributions other than yelling very loudly?
I mean, is it really that much of a distinction that people listen? Last I heard by way of vote count, fewer were listening to you than GM. :lol:
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