NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #3950 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:56 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3934, Izariael wrote:Interestingly enough though, your most recent series of posts have been directed at me and not at Dave though. Perhaps I stopped the pressure/momentum on dave slot? He would be the appropriate slot for this analogy anyways. (You=Garmr, dave=Boon, Iz=Anen)



go back and read Garmr and Boon, what momentum at the Boon slot...?

that is not akin to what happened.
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Post Post #3951 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:00 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3935, Josh_B wrote:can you guys explain to me what you're arguing about? Should Boonskies be getting more pressure or is that relevant?

Is boonskies a neighbor?

I've read about 20 pages so far, my first impression is that tobyloby is scum.

Axel, none of the posts you showed me make me think scum GM at all. I haven't really looked into thor or boonskies yet, but are they scumier than you?


They are arguing with me about this, one of the early reasons I thought your slot was scummy.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6378602

well as I am 100% town to me, every unflipped slot is scummier than me? huh.
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Post Post #3952 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:04 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 3936, davesaz wrote:
In post 3927, Izariael wrote:So Garmr felt that Anen did NOT successfully refute his points, but also felt that his interjection had affected the dynamic of his interaction with Boon in a manner that was either negative or counter-productive to what he was aiming to accomplish.


Garmer feld that Anen's intervention destroyed his ability to continue to pursue the interaction with Boon. The points made by Anen were wrong, but the interaction stopped the pressure.

It is perfectly reasonable to think that scum might stop pressuring someone when interrupted.

It is not reasonable to think that scum would continue to argue the same failing point forever. There is no way scum is going to do that. Scum would
stop and completely drop the subject
, and probably not even say why they were stopped.


Are you now arguing Garmr is scum?

Garmr did drop the point, he was trying to make against Boon.
He dropped even though he claimed Anen made the points stronger.

Garmr was looking for some nice quiet place to park his vote, and then not really push the lynch.
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Post Post #3953 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:26 am

Post by goodmorning »

In post 3910, davesaz wrote:Answer the questions I asked. Because I don't think you're trying to figure out the Garmr slot alignment, you're trying to paint it as scum regardless of the truth.

I don't think 2441 has the meaning you are assigning to it. 418 happened before Garmer changed his mind on Boon. How many times do I have to point this out?

This is why I'm not talking to Axle anymore.

In post 3935, Josh_B wrote:can you guys explain to me what you're arguing about? Should Boonskies be getting more pressure or is that relevant?

They're arguing about some Axle thing. Boon wouldn't act any different with pressure so it probably isn't relevant.

Is boonskies a neighbor?

Yes, with me, Izariael, Shiro, and the late Anen.

I've read about 20 pages so far, my first impression is that tobyloby is scum.

Toby was replaced by Fonz, who does not improve upon the slot at all.

Axel, none of the posts you showed me make me think scum GM at all. I haven't really looked into thor or boonskies yet, but are they scumier than you?

BUTTING IN: Thor is scummier than he's ever been. 99% of his energy today has been cheap attempts to discredit people who scumread him, and his most recent discussion with Muffin is inutterably bad.

FTR I don't believe that Thor is a Town PR.
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Post Post #3954 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:29 am

Post by Shiro »

Axl wrote:
Garmr was looking for some nice quiet place to park his vote, and then not really push the lynch.


Hint What slander has been doing as well

Day 1 Gm (Never really pushed)and then joke over hammer
Day 2 Me (Never strongly pushed me since he broke his points to 24 hours gaps,werent all that strong and never truly tried to convince anyone to vote me) and now Gamr ( Not a single push attempt)

Oh fun fact I noticed. Both days he felt the need to protect leading wagons and to add when Thor said he found his defence of him odd slander....stopped cause u know he wanted to save thor.
He also felt the need to announce at the end of day 1 that he tried to save pere yet never really tried to push anyone else in order to create a reasonable alternative

Oh about the contradiction I mentioned
One imples he found the lack of reason scummy
The other says it find the uterior motive of passing responsibility scummy

They contradict because the first implies that he cannot see a reason thus founds the vote off and scummy
The other says he sees a uterior motive and sees that reason as scummy.
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Post Post #3955 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:47 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3953, goodmorning wrote:FTR I don't believe that Thor is a Town PR.

Good - so engage people and push the wagon on me to L-1 to back up your stance.

Repeat Claim because people are still derping around.
I CLAIMED TO BE A PR.
Let's make a wagon happen lackwits.
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Post Post #3956 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:54 am

Post by Slandaar »

I have tried hard to push wagons thank you Shiro. Defending the leading wagon's who are town is a big part of moving votes onto the wagon you want.
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Post Post #3957 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:56 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 3952, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 3936, davesaz wrote:
In post 3927, Izariael wrote:So Garmr felt that Anen did NOT successfully refute his points, but also felt that his interjection had affected the dynamic of his interaction with Boon in a manner that was either negative or counter-productive to what he was aiming to accomplish.


Garmer feld that Anen's intervention destroyed his ability to continue to pursue the interaction with Boon. The points made by Anen were wrong, but the interaction stopped the pressure.

It is perfectly reasonable to think that scum might stop pressuring someone when interrupted.

It is not reasonable to think that scum would continue to argue the same failing point forever. There is no way scum is going to do that. Scum would
stop and completely drop the subject
, and probably not even say why they were stopped.


Are you now arguing Garmr is scum?

Garmr did drop the point, he was trying to make against Boon.
He dropped even though he claimed Anen made the points stronger.

Garmr was looking for some nice quiet place to park his vote, and then not really push the lynch.


No, I'm arguing there is no possible way Garmr could be scum, because of the continued discussion of Anen's effect on the Boon push. Based on my opinions about how scum play.

Scum would stop talking about Boon. Period. Scum Garmr would never again mention his push on Boon. Not even to defend against someone attacking him for it. The correct scum play is to say "what are you talking about, I dropped that ages ago when Boon soft claimed". The correct scum play is to say "well, Anen flipped town so there is no point in further discussion about whether that was a chainsaw". No, arguing with you about it shows explicit town motivation. Garmr was using Anen to argue that you, as scum, are beating the dead horse of Anen's influence on Garmr's Boon push.

You have been doing other things that are towny. I'd like to believe that you honestly think that Garmr's slot is scum. But the scum tell you claim is the reason you're scum reading Garmr, "riding a little scummy thing into the next week", happens to be the exact thing you're doing yourself! And it's an incredibly weak scum tell, at best. I would never use that, and being tunneled over using it, as the sole evidence to push a case.

In the meantime, we have Thor hard claiming a PR. It's either a truly ballsy gambit, or he really is a PR pointing out that we're being stupid tunneling on this Garmr thing instead of looking for something a bit more meaningful to lynch.
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Post Post #3958 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:57 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 3956, Slandaar wrote:I have tried hard to push wagons thank you Shiro. Defending the leading wagon's who are town is a big part of moving votes onto the wagon you want.

Can you quote yourself pushing a wagon? Even more so, can you quote yourself trying hard?
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Post Post #3959 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:01 am

Post by Thor665 »

@Slandaar - would you support a GM or Beast wagon and will you move your vote? If not, could you explain by specifically stating th ename, what player you expect to get to join the Garmr wagon due to your efforts of convincing them to move their vote?
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Post Post #3960 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:04 am

Post by davesaz »

I'd be in favor of a TSO lynch as an alternative, since we're having so much trouble getting any of the existing wagons going. TSO failing to provide an Anen case D1 is the kind of behavior I'd expect from scum who discover their case holds no water. And a NK makes perfect sense as a way to silence that subject forever. Lurking / soft replacing out also fits the profile of almost caught scum who want to lay low.
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Post Post #3961 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:05 am

Post by goodmorning »

In post 3955, Thor665 wrote:
In post 3953, goodmorning wrote:FTR I don't believe that Thor is a Town PR.

Good - so engage people and push the wagon on me to L-1 to back up your stance.

Prolonged pushing of a wagon on a player who's better than me is tiring. I've done what I can for the moment, it's up to other folks to pay attention to how sketchy you've been. I can't make people listen if they don't want to hear it.
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Post Post #3962 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:08 am

Post by Shiro »

2 People beat me to it

I mean clearly gamr slot feels threatened by your votes presence.

And yea it is when u actually preaent an alternative.

I would also like to say that you have been trying to be thor pal from the start of the day.

Which is why u messed you reason for finding my vote scummy. Instead of recalling what u said to flumber(or Iz I dont remember who perfectly) You rehashed Thor's reason.
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Post Post #3963 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:09 am

Post by Shiro »

@Gm

Hey How much pressure did u feel when slander pushed u day 1 ?
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Post Post #3964 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:11 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3961, goodmorning wrote:Prolonged pushing of a wagon on a player who's better than me is tiring.

Then you should have enough oomph for about 48 hours since you haven't been pushing me in any meaningful way at all yet this game.
Get moving - pick someone who isn't voting me and convince them why I'm scum.

In post 3960, davesaz wrote:I'd be in favor of a TSO lynch as an alternative, since we're having so much trouble getting any of the existing wagons going. TSO failing to provide an Anen case D1 is the kind of behavior I'd expect from scum who discover their case holds no water. And a NK makes perfect sense as a way to silence that subject forever. Lurking / soft replacing out also fits the profile of almost caught scum who want to lay low.

So you town read Beast, GM, and Thor?
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Post Post #3965 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:12 am

Post by goodmorning »

In post 3963, Shiro wrote:@Gm

Hey How much pressure did u feel when slander pushed u day 1 ?

None at all. But then I don't usually feel pressure even when run all the way up, so...

If the question is "how hard did Slandaar push you" then the answer would be that at this point I don't even remember him having done any such thing.
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Post Post #3966 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:18 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3964, Thor665 wrote:pick someone who isn't voting me and convince them why I'm scum.

@GM

You aren't even needing to debate me to do this - c'mon, this is townplay 101. Make it happen.
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Post Post #3967 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:25 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 3964, Thor665 wrote:
So you town read Beast, GM, and Thor?

Null-insufficient data, Weak Town, Strong "needs more cooking time could be scum leading town but want to believe it's just town"

That Thor read is pretty much the same as my BBT read in the newbie game. I have a really bad weak spot on players who are borderline "Strong Town" vs "Scum Leading Town". Such a slot should be a dead 50%, but I'm wrong something like 90% of the time when I go it alone on deciding. If a trusted town player helps me with the coin flip I'm more like 70% accurate, regardless of whether the town player is with me or not. Just pointing out the evidence that I miss is sufficient. If I could have trusted Thor's vote on BBT to start the last day in that game, we'd have nailed him.
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Post Post #3968 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:31 am

Post by davesaz »

Regarding Beast, I don't think we have time to force enough interaction to accurately read. Lynching TSO would give us the ability to associate either way the flip goes, while Beast gives us next to nothing on associations. IIRC...
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Post Post #3969 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:33 am

Post by goodmorning »

I've already convinced more people than I usually manage. I'm not going to burn myself out deliberately. The problem is really that so many people aren't posting. How can I convince Beast or Josh or Scripten or Nero about you if they aren't around?

P-Edit: @dave: Have you commented on my Thor case or Izariael's brilliant addenda to the aforementioned yet?
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Post Post #3970 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:37 am

Post by davesaz »

I actively tried to push it, and Thor promptly tied me up in knots. There is definitely a tone thing there, but there is a fine line between scum playing the town like a fiddle, and a strong townie casting nets and gutting the fish who wander into them.
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Post Post #3971 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:42 am

Post by Shiro »

Question to everyone.

Do u remember slander pushing wagons ? And hard at that as he claims ?

@Thor In case I am musreading this. Did u feel like slander was trying to be your buddy during day 2 ?
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Post Post #3972 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:59 am

Post by The Fonz »

Phone posting so will be going reply by reply.

In post 3738, Thor665 wrote:
In post 3707, TierShift wrote:iza is town. he is. thor, look elsewhere.

Is this read for the wall/effort=town or anything else?
Because earlier he did a cop out on the case and now he's champion of the case, and I can't read the shift as easily as you apparently do.


Thor, can you explain this? I don't need a wall, and Iz has been giving me some gut scumvibes, but when I look in detail I can't pin down anything specific.

I'm not sure what there is to explain - I'm asking Tier a question there and describing two things that Iz did and asking for Tier's conclusions.


I want you to expand 'did a cop out' and how you think his attitude appears to have changed, and what you think that implies.


Eh, if you can get that wagon bigger I'll move. But honestly I'm not feeling it. I'd probably rather lynch a lirksack like you or TSO than Flubber, frankly.


Please don't call me a fucking lurksack. For one, I've provided more actual content than Flub. But mostly, when you're absurdly pressed for time and spending half your waking, non-working hours on a game, it's annoying as fuck. I'm obviously giving my fucking everything to scumhunting here, and other people having more free time does not make me a goddamn lurksack.
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Post Post #3973 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:08 am

Post by The Fonz »

Flub wrote:

Sooo yeah you're either shifting the goalposts or you've gotten used to what it smells like to have your head up your ass.


I have no idea what 'goalposts' you mean. In any case, others should note what Flub has no response to the substantive accusation - If I'm supposedly buddying - bullshit - that implies I'm trying to get town Thor onside as scum, but he's voting Thor. Smells like trying to set up his next scapegoat after Thor flips town to me.
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Post Post #3974 (ISO) » Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:13 am

Post by The Fonz »

In post 3904, beastcharizard wrote:It doesn't resemble scum anything. It is at worst anti-town.

Also, how the hell am I supposed to control if I happen to check the thread after someone votes me? That was a coincidence.

Earlier I was going to make a bigger post but then realized I had homework to do.

Next you are going to say I am scummy for going to sleep soon because: "He was avoiding a conversation with me by sleeping."


It's reasonable to not have enough time. What is not reasonable is to make multiple posts arguing about being attacked because you don't have time, when you could use some of those posts to at least get a brief outline of who your top suspect is and why in the thread. That points to survival motive.

This would be a non-awful wagon.
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