NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

[Boonskiies]

If I was a SK, why the hell would I try to draw the NK's? I'd want other people to die.

[Muffin]

If I was a SK, why the hell would I try to draw the NK's? I'd want other people to die.

Since you admit you no longer think Thor is town, I would like you to vote him please.

[Thor665]

I tried twice to look at quantity. You shot it down both times. Flimsily. So if it's not the two ways I've tried to show it quantitatively, and it's not qualitatively, then why can't you show evidence to back up your statements about Shiro?

Why not?

Stop dicking around with me.

I made a statement about amount.

You translated that to "number of times a name is mentioned"

Which - c'mon, dude, are you serious? No - tthat is obvious bull-hookey on your part.

Then, when I point that out - you shift to "percentage of posts...but I'll just count posts where the name is mentioned and pay no attention to the amount that each is actually discussed"

Again - what the heck? Why are you playing word games? You know that's not what I meant and are dicking around.

When I call you on THAT we go into this game where you claim I changed the goalposts to "quality".
Except I never did.

STOP PLAYING SMURF FACED GAMES.

Why are you doing this?
It is scummy, stupid, and annoying.

[Thor665]

Vote: muffin

I'll invote when you start talking like town and not like a word game scum feeb.

[Muffin]

I got called out when I tried to push a completely weak-ass case on a newbie obvtown lurker, and now I'm feeling cornered so I'm voting the guy who called me on my bully tactics

ok

[Thor665]

No - don't dodge that gak.
Respond to me with an actual response.

You can call me scum, but talk straight to me if you can.

[Muffin]

Thor: "I can back up what I said"
Muffin: "lol do it then, show me why I'm wrong"
Thor: "no, I'll just vote you instead and pretend to be angry"

[Thor665]

It's funny that you're accussing me of dodging yet are unable to talk to me.

And by funny I mean stupid.

[Thor665]

I'm not stuttering here - I expressed my issue and thoughts VERY clearly.
Yet you can't handle them?

BullSmurf.

You're faking.

[T S O]

I mean the suspicion comes from the idea that scum can have a nervous/awkward entrance to the game hence both my argument there and TSO's being very similar in nature. Is it more likely from scum? yes I think so, is there any scum motivation? no.

and Id have been happier if TSO said that.

muffin you're really not winning this argument whatsoever.

dave go ahead and fucking vote me instead of softing that you're up for it. it's really scummy and it bugs the shit out of me too. cool? cool.

[T S O]

I don't believe in replacing out of games due to apathy unless utterly unavoidable, but my god have I considered it here.

[Thor665]

Any timeline on that Goodmorning case yet, TSO?

[Muffin]

Okay, to recap:

Thor parks the vote on shiro for "mostly gut and wagon placement", doesn't elaborate on "wagon placement" and then sits on the vote for something like 15 pages

Spoiler: write him a citation

Vote: Shiro

I don't think he's really pushing a wagon, tho. He's got a vote out and he's initiating an argument, but 1v1-ing just doesn't seem pro-town.

The only way that becomes an issue is if everyone else treats it as a 1 v 1. Otherwise it is simply two players cross voting - aka, two wagons.

Shiro is scum due to gut and wagon placement.

Would wagon if boons, iz, dave, and you get sorted out.

So you have stronger scumreads on all of them.
I think it's safe to say a Thor wagon is a non-starter.

Can you describe your case on the other three - just a quick nugget sort of explanation - you feel very empty to me right now and I'd love to flesh you out.

@thor Hey since axl bored you and you didn't answer him mind answering to Shiro why the placement on the Pere wagon was scummy ?

Do you think that your wagon placement looks townish or null?

and if instead of being a hardSmurf and saying no you find it... you had tried youd have realised your error and Id have moved on days ago,.... (and wasted lots less time)
as it is, I see you claiming, reclaiming, and insisting on, one basis for your read then oops no its another.

And yet, despite all that, you actually go nowhere with it.
Proving my point that it was empty work.
So - no, I have no guilt in "wasting" your time. Your intent was to waste mine also apparently, and at least mine wasn't done intentionally.

Thor, will answer tomorrow - literally falling to sleep.

Sure, I'll quote this to help me remember.
Though that does remind me.

@Goodmorning - remember when you lied to me twice yesterday about answering that question about wagon analysis? You ever planning to do that - or was it all lies from top to bottom?

Shiro calls him on it and he goes with the "I was mistaken" defense

Spoiler: oops lol i was thinking of someone else

I'm mixing you up with someone else in my head, clearly.

That said. You did take forever to say anything of worth - and then voted Pere out of the blue with no justification despite making a wall on Anen. That feels wonky to me.

Shiro then posts the relevant dates to show that Thor was talking out his ass when he said Shiro was "taking forever". I decide to look into Thor's "case" against Shiro

Spoiler: Factual Stretch Armstrong

I'm mixing you up with someone else in my head, clearly.

That said. You did take forever to say anything of worth - and then voted Pere out of the blue with no justification despite making a wall on Anen. That feels wonky to me.

Cute misrep.

Here's the "wall" in question, about Anen. I note without surprise that the first line explicitly shows Shiro's diminishing scumread on Anen. Given the proximity of deadline I do not see any internal inconsistency there.

Contrarily, you're now stretching the facts to fit your vote.

Thor claims "oh yeah it was someone else nameless" but can't say who he allegedly mixed shiro up with. Thor then says "look how many posts about Anen/Pere" which I took to mean quantity.

Spoiler: No it was the other other guy

@Axle - so you cannot state a read on Shiro then?

@Shiro - some other lurksack.

@Muffin - no, actually, there isn't a misrep there. Look at how many thoughts were posted about Anen. Then look at the same for Pere. Then look at the vote. That reads legit to you?

So I go back and look at mentions

Spoiler: I just did a quick CTRL+F and found roughly equal number of mentions

Who did u even mix me up with ?

@Shiro - some other lurksack.

In other words, you can't think of someone you can pin it on?

@Muffin - no, actually, there isn't a misrep there. Look at how many thoughts were posted about Anen. Then look at the same for Pere. Then look at the vote. That reads legit to you?

Prior to #2558, instances of "pere" in Shiro's ISO: 8
instances of "anen" in Shiro's ISO for the same period: 7

Seems like a misrep to me, bud. Flow of Shiro's thoughts are evident to me, and seem reasonable for someone w a town mindset.

You're doing a really bad job selling Shiroscum.

Thor decides that's not good enough

Spoiler: Can anything appease him?

I find it dishonest of you to act like a number of name mentions qualifies the same as degree of mention.

So I go back again and look at the number of posts as a whole that mention Pere or Anen (or both). Remember kids, all this is because Thor is asserting that Shiro disproportionately mentioned one over the other prior to voting Pere.

Spoiler: Why isn't he showing us this himself if he thinks my analysis is wrong?

Prior to and including the vote in question:

....

So, yeah. 3 posts seem to be mostly about pere, and 4 mostly about anen, including one that is sort of about both of them. Not to mention if you go through them chronologically there is a clear progression of reads. Do you want to try your pathetically-bad argument again?

In before Thor just restates the same argument ignoring the factual evidence that he is full of shit.
In before "yeah but it's the QUALITY of the mentions, on some subjective scale it's impossible to argue against because I just made it up"

Thor decides that no, this isn't good enough either:

Spoiler: Perfectionist my ass

So when I said 'thoughts' you went with 'names' and decided that was legit.

Your Pere quotes are pretty heavily padded out with conversation about Thor and you know it.
Back up this gak some more please.

And despite repeated prompts for him to just do his own analysis if he thinks mine is so bad....

Spoiler: He just won't. Like a stubborn child

I'm saying some of the quotes you provided are "padded out" (i.e. made larger seeming) by conversation about me.

They're direct quotes, I haven't padded anything.

If you think my analysis is incorrect, feel free to do your own and show me the error of my ways. I'm open to being convinced, but somehow I think you'll just keep going "NUH UH" instead of doing anything useful.

So, dear town:

• I don't see any town motivation in refusing to post a summary of Shiro's posts, with his own analysis
  
• I don't see any town motivation in arguing semantics while refusing to do the above
  
• I do see scum motivation for both

Please vote Thor. It is a quality wagon and you should all sheep it for great justice

[Muffin]

It's funny that you're accussing me of dodging yet are unable to talk to me.

And by funny I mean stupid.

I'm not stuttering here - I expressed my issue and thoughts VERY clearly.
Yet you can't handle them?

BullSmurf.

You're faking.

Sweetheart, if you think the way I've interpreted Shiro's posts is wrong, then you should show an analysis of Shiro's posts that points to scum.

You can't. Why not?

[TierShift]

mostly the 'I'm mixing you up with someone but I'm not telling who' is shit.

But yeah, grand summary.

[AxleGreaser]

Any timeline on that Goodmorning case yet, TSO?

I thought he was still promising an Aneninen case? (aka the reasons he had yesterday that never materialised)

[TierShift]

muffin you're really not winning this argument whatsoever.

are you even reading

[Izariael]

muffin you're really not winning this argument whatsoever.

are you even reading

This.

[Thor665]

Sweetheart, if you think the way I've interpreted Shiro's posts is wrong, then you should show an analysis of Shiro's posts that points to scum.

You can't. Why not?

I've said I can.
That said - what I've ALSO said - is that I want you to explain the quality schtick.

Tell you what - you explain that (and, maybe, if I'm really lucky, toss in why you EVER thought I meant 'number of times a name was mentioned') and I'll explain my reasoning.
Deal?
Good.
Rock on. Blow me away.

mostly the 'I'm mixing you up with someone but I'm not telling who' is Smurf.

But yeah, grand summary.

Wait, so Tier

also;
@Iz

BOTH of you are totally happy with the way Muffin questioned this and how he skewed and turned wacky my statements?
Or - even funner - both of you think he didn't make any of my statements wacky and it's totally correct to think I meant 'number of times a name was mentioned' or that I also changed my story to quality over quantity when asked?

Both of you agree with that?

A simple y/n response is all I really want here.

@Tier - as to your original point. Let's say you're right. Let's say me not doing that is "messed up" in some manner.
How is it messed up in any way that matters?
Because, it's certainly not a scum plan.
So...what's the issue? The issue is that I'm not going back to find the name of a lurker I mistook as being Shiro? I mean, do you think that was an intentional misrep on my part? If so...weirdest scum plan ever. If not...then, as scum *or* town I could have made that mistake. So...yeah, what's your boggle?

[Izariael]

Yes.

[reinoe]

If I was a SK, why the hell would I try to draw the NK's? I'd want other people to die.

Boonskiies, all I'm asking for is for you to explain why you claimed 2-SHOT BP, with an explanation besides "I'm a VI lolz".

Also,

@Flubber,

who's town and why?

[Thor665]

Yes.

Sweet - can you answer either of my questions to Muffin for him?

Show why he got that I had said quality over quantity?
Or show how it was reasonable for him to think that I meant "number of times a name was mentioned" as *any way sensible* as a means of measuring a metric of 'how much attention was paid a given slot'?

Since you agree with both, you clearly already understand both, yeah?

[Thor665]

I'll even promise to answer Muffin's question to me in exchange for you answering for him.

Tier can also hop on this wagon - heck, if you answer first and Tier wants to sally in I'll even offer up a guess as to what Lurker I meant. It's an answer extravaganza!

[Izariael]

Oh... sorry. I thought you said a simple yes or no response would suffice. I must have misunderstood.

[TierShift]

BOTH of you are totally happy with the way Muffin questioned this and how he skewed and turned wacky my statements?

The quotes provided are pretty objective.

I don't think much is wrong with his questioning and even if I did, the ends justify the means.

@Tier - as to your original point. Let's say you're right. Let's say me not doing that is "messed up" in some manner.
How is it messed up in any way that matters?
Because, it's certainly not a scum plan.
So...what's the issue? The issue is that I'm not going back to find the name of a lurker I mistook as being Shiro? I mean, do you think that was an intentional misrep on my part? If so...weirdest scum plan ever. If not...then, as scum *or* town I could have made that mistake. So...yeah, what's your boggle?

The boggle is that you're avoiding to show who you were talking about, with it being asked multiple times and there not being a reason to withhold the information from us.

And now getting all defensive and asserting I said that messing two players up was a scum plan, which I never did.

Ehy is there such a big stick up your butthole?