NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

[Muffin]

I claimed my role at not even at L-2, how is that a panic claim? Also, it's not similar to the one I did my tracker fake claim, as I claimed that one day 1, in a game where I was

much

more active than I was here. If I was scum for one of my first times, don't you think I'd be far more interested in this game than I was day 1? Also, it got to the point where I wasn't going to draw a NK anymore , so me claiming does nothing to change that.

wifom

[Thor665]

Prior to #2558, instances of "pere" in Shiro's ISO: 8
instances of "anen" in Shiro's ISO for the same period: 7

Wow.

[The Fonz]

Today -

Boon looked to me at first like he was genuinely playing as a derpy town PR - the suggestion that he's done the same thing as scum piques my interest though - will read the supplied link when I have time.

I'll try to spare you 200 pages of shitfest by saying if anything pops into your head today that remotely looks like a cc then Boons needs to eat rope. That might be harder to do in a large than a mini though, so take it for what it's worth.

Oh, to be clear - we should absolutely force Boon to fullclaim tomorrow. A CC is quite hard to get based on a nonspecified power claim. [Edit: Noted subsequent fullclaim].

@Fonz - what is your read on GM and Dave?

GM's annoying but town. Play makes perfect sense from the perspective of a somewhat poor town player who is trying and has a slightly inflated view of her own abilities.

Dave... I meant to mention him as a suspect in my last post, actually. Then he goes and does exactly what I was suspecting him for

not

doing, which is bring an original insight which results in a strong read - the 'Axle contradiction' stuff.

Question of why Axle dropped TSO suspicion

a good one.

actually here is good question.

@Fonz

For

that

to be good question, there would have to be actual examples of TSO doing scummy shit that I should have commented on but didn't...

Do you have any... like even one.

and if you do? then you didn't post about them because... ?

Hey Fonz. You dont seem like the kind of player that just flings shit.
That (unless you saw TSO do new scummy stuff I could have commented on and didnt and you also chose not to...) feels like shit flinging.

How come?
Show me its a good question.

This feels like a really scummy response. People who feel they have a strong scum case don't need to re-state it, but what they do need to do is continue to pursue it in some manner: actually vote that suspect, ask other people to consider voting them, say things like 'Guys this is all well and good, but TSO is still scum." I think it's fair to say that dropping the read feels unnatural, and accusing the scumhunter who points that out of 'flinging shit' is itself just flinging shit.

People who townread Thor: please, please explain why.

Has strong reads, single-minded focus on them, high level of effort (yes, it is the single best town-tell) exasperation at derping about.

I'm only at p117. Sorry, but life has been kicking my ass. I am currently most suspicious of Axle, and Flubbernugget (this is largely gut - I feel there's a fair bit of empty/'helpful' posting, the triple voter thing - his kvetching feels 'look town' rather than 'help town' criticising Axle ('contradictory straw grasp') then turning around and voting the super-easy Boon wagon.

Actually, fuck it.

Vote: Flubber

[Aegor]

Votecount 2.4

[5]

Boonskiies:

T S O, Izariael, Flubbernugget, Garmr, Muffin
[2]

Flubbernugget:

Nero Cain, The Fonz
[2]

Shiro:

Thor665, Slandaar
[1]

AxleGreaser:

davesaz
[1]

Garmr:

Scripten, Boonskiies
[1]

Izariael:

TierShift
[1]

Thor665:

goodmorning

[5]

Not Voting:

beastcharizard, reinoe, Shiro, AxleGreaser, reinoe

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.

Day 2 deadline:

(expired on 2014-11-19 18:27:52)

Mod Notes

None

[goodmorning]

Point being Thor's original argument was good and I liked it, I also feel he would have dropped the argument with the meta's appearance if he were scum but this is based on my feeling of his meta.

This makes some amount of sense. I don't necessarily agree but I can see where you're coming from.

It wasn't. That said, why would Scum-Thor make an easy vote, or at least a vote you perceive as easy?

Because it wouldn't have made me think he was scum. Scum can just farm an easy mislynch if that will not make them appear scummy.

Why should Thor care what you think of him? Why would he act based on your opinion?

What does this even mean?

Bulbazak was scum in walrus and the carpenter mafia, in which he was very bullheaded. I used to see that as a town characteristic mainly.

Ah.

Because the way you're engaging with the game today feels really really off. Also I'm not really seeing any of your thought process, which is really weird for you.

You're not seeing any thought process, that might be true. Not today at least. But I usually show thought process in both my town and scum games, so that doesn't really count as a scumtell.[/quote]
Which is why I said it was weird.

If you want some clean thought process, go look at my stuff on egg, please.

I have done. It's also weird.

What is your own read on boon and what do you think of his thor vote?

I don't really have a read on him; I could see him either as a disinterested PR or a Scum coasting on a claim like that.
His Thor vote was not good.

gm is so town

Can you expand that thought with words?
I don't particularly find her scummy, per se' - but I find her so

useless

as to be lynch worthy, so a town read would shrink my lynch pools.

You keep using that word.

Gosh I hope flubber isn't scum for pushing someone that he can't kill at night.

Why assume Boon is BP?

@Muffin: hey do you still think thor is town? if you do then i wanna talk about that shit
judging by later posts MAYBE NOT

Actually feel slightly better about Axle w/ this Nero thing. I mean, it's not a great point or anything but I can follow it and it makes sense.

@Goodmorning - remember when you lied to me twice yesterday about answering that question about wagon analysis? You ever planning to do that - or was it all lies from top to bottom?

oh u

If you're going to try to turn this into something alignment-indicative, don't bother. I'll just bring up the month-long case delay in S&L again.

Right, so why is boon being wagoned now? Can someone explain? For me, his claim checks out.

Some of his actions don't seem to make sense coming from a BP. Like the whole thing where he was trying to lynch Izariael and said something about Iz fishing for towncred by not killing Boon which I don't remember clearly because it hurt my brain.

@Anyone
Odd question. If a two shot BP gets shot, does he get notified on this forum?

Not usually. Probably wouldn't in this game.

so with two deaths N1 you think he got shot why?

or how?

I'm just going to point out that it wouldn't be unthinkable for 3 killing roles/factions to exist.

Any one that is experienced enough and not Axl that may wants to know why Thor thinks my placement in the Pere wagon was scummy ?

I don't really care why he thinks that because
1. he's Scum
2. VCA is bullshit

@Goodmorning
Why's Thor scum?

D1 what I had was a tone-based read. D2, looking back, Thor didn't say anything he couldn't take back, only pushed Pere, not very Town-Thor actions. Now he's beginning to worry about my read on him because I can back it up; you'll notice he's tried to discredit me pretty much every time he posts.

GM's annoying but town. Play makes perfect sense from the perspective of a somewhat poor town player who is trying and has a slightly inflated view of her own abilities.

eyyyyy what's your excuse then?

People who townread Thor: please, please explain why.

Has strong reads, single-minded focus on them, high level of effort (yes, it is the single best town-tell) exasperation at derping about. [/quote]
1. No, he doesn't. I went through and pointed out that none of his reads (other than Pere) is any more justified than "I liked his gut reads on 4 people."
2. Yeahhhhh I don't know what universe you play Mafia in but I find tunneling to be mildly scummy. As Scum, it's a lot easier to push one person and not comment on the rest so that you can "change your mind" whenever it's convenient. I mean, Town tunnel too, and I've certainly done it, but it's not something that makes Scum's lives harder.
3. Effort is most certainly not indicative of alignment. Thor posts ridiculous numbers of posts no matter what.
4. It's really easy to say "come on guys, deadline is coming, let's consolidate" especially when them not consolidating means you lose a mislynch.

So I still don't understand it.

[Thor665]

gm is so town

Can you expand that thought with words?
I don't particularly find her scummy, per se' - but I find her so

useless

as to be lynch worthy, so a town read would shrink my lynch pools.

You keep using that word.

I do, don't I?

So, i take it by your hand wave that - yes, it was a lie yesterday when you said you'd do the analysis I asked for and you never plan to do it at any future point in this game?
Just be clear in your statement and I can move on.
Mostly I just want the clean quote for later use whether it's 'yes I'll do it' or 'no, I won't'
Careful, I have a whole bag of 'useless' here and I'm not afraid to cast it upon thee even if you do want to attach the phrase 'discredit' to me every time I point out you're being useless.
An easy solution to stop me would be to, y'know, *stop* being useless.
Crazy concept.
Offering it up to you as a free idea.
See how it tastes.

Or you can keep whining that I'm discrediting you.
Whichever.
I am.
And it's easy.
And there's no agenda beyond making you admit to it or providing further evidence that it's true.
So feel free to note that later too.

[Muffin]

@Muffin: hey do you still think thor is town? if you do then i wanna talk about that shit
judging by later posts MAYBE NOT

Nope, not particularly. One weaksauce case on PereV I can maybe forgive because it's D1 and we all have low info. But I would not expect arguably weaker cases on D2 from him.

[Muffin]

Prior to #2558, instances of "pere" in Shiro's ISO: 8
instances of "anen" in Shiro's ISO for the same period: 7

Wow.

Is this you capitulating, and accepting that your rationale for Shiro being scum is entirely false? Or is this you expressing disbelief that I have twice shown you being dishonest in your characterizations of Shiro?

[Thor665]

I find it dishonest of you to act like a number of name mentions qualifies the same as degree of mention.

[davesaz]

@Thor: I thought GM was on the lurky useless side too, D1, but D2 has been completely different. But don't let that interfere with your wanting answers.

[Muffin]

I find it dishonest of you to act like a number of name mentions qualifies the same as degree of mention.

Oh so now the valid metric is "Thor's qualitative, arbitrary scale describing the degree to which someone was mentioned"?

[goodmorning]

gm is so town

Can you expand that thought with words?
I don't particularly find her scummy, per se' - but I find her so

useless

as to be lynch worthy, so a town read would shrink my lynch pools.

You keep using that word.

I do, don't I?

I do not think it means what you think it means.

But if you'd like to back up that statement then that would be fun.

Mostly I just want the clean quote for later use whether it's 'yes I'll do it' or 'no, I won't'

Astonishingly I think I already covered this issue last twilight phase.
Since you can't find it apparently:

Hey, GM, I'm keeping you in mind.

lolk

Well, it's not happening now. If we're all alive Tomorrow it'll happen then.

@Muffin: hey do you still think thor is town? if you do then i wanna talk about that shit
judging by later posts MAYBE NOT

Nope, not particularly. One weaksauce case on PereV I can maybe forgive because it's D1 and we all have low info. But I would not expect arguably weaker cases on D2 from him.

I'm beginning to feel distinctly excited at the chances of this wagon.

[TierShift]

I'm mixing you up with someone else in my head, clearly.

That said. You did take forever to say anything of worth - and then voted Pere out of the blue with no justification despite making a wall on Anen. That feels wonky to me.

Cute misrep.

Here's the "wall" in question, about Anen. I note without surprise that the first line explicitly shows Shiro's diminishing scumread on Anen. Given the proximity of deadline I do not see any internal inconsistency there.

Contrarily, you're now stretching the facts to fit your vote.

This is a great post.

[TierShift]

So why am I on multiple players' scumlists?

I would like to sit down and have talks with these players as I'm having with gm now.

[TierShift]

It wasn't. That said, why would Scum-Thor make an easy vote, or at least a vote you perceive as easy?

Because it wouldn't have made me think he was scum. Scum can just farm an easy mislynch if that will not make them appear scummy.

Why should Thor care what you think of him? Why would he act based on your opinion?

It's not my opinion specifically; it's town's in general, as the second line pointed out. He wouldn't seem scummy.

If you want some clean thought process, go look at my stuff on egg, please.

I have done. It's also weird.

:/ Please provide some more detail please

What is your own read on boon and what do you think of his thor vote?

I don't really have a read on him; I could see him either as a disinterested PR or a Scum coasting on a claim like that.
His Thor vote was not good.

Me like this read

I'm gonna be a waffle

VOTE: thor

His 'shiro isn't the non-contributor but hey uhhh here have another reason to lynch her' is awful.

And I don't like him

[Nero Cain]

oh noes! My scum read (fonz) is voting for my other scumread (flubber)

[Nero Cain]

but Muffin is prob scum too. Like that whole asking Muffin for his opinion on me 'cause he wanted to understand why we had different opinions on Boons looked really forced and manufactured.

+

neither of them are following up at all.

[Muffin]

Time to make gm happy I guess?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: thor

[Nero Cain]

[2]AxleGreaser:

Nero Cain

, davesaz
[2]Flubbernugget:

Nero Cain

, The Fonz

FUCK YES! I am a double voter today.

unvote:Axle; vote:flubber

[Nero Cain]

Has strong reads, single-minded focus on them, high level of effort (yes, it is the single best town-tell) exasperation at derping about.

1. No, he doesn't. I went through and pointed out that none of his reads (other than Pere) is any more justified than "I liked his gut reads on 4 people."
2. Yeahhhhh I don't know what universe you play Mafia in but I find tunneling to be mildly scummy. As Scum, it's a lot easier to push one person and not comment on the rest so that you can "change your mind" whenever it's convenient. I mean, Town tunnel too, and I've certainly done it, but it's not something that makes Scum's lives harder.
3. Effort is most certainly not indicative of alignment. Thor posts ridiculous numbers of posts no matter what.
4. It's really easy to say "come on guys, deadline is coming, let's consolidate" especially when them not consolidating means you lose a mislynch.

ITT GM obliterated Fonz.

TBF, I think Thor's "single mindness" is going to come from him regardless of alignment. Though I agree with GM b/c singular hunting does often come from scum but I've seen town do it as well....but it isn't good town play like at all. Fonz reasons for town reading Thor are all around bad.

[Scripten]

VOTE: thor

VOTE: thor

I really don't like to admit this, but the Thor case is starting to feel alright. (2959) bugs me a lot. (3099) is a solid post. I'd rather not be on a lynch with Garmr, but one scumteam having two kills seems unlikely to me so it's possible that he and Thor are not aligned.

[Nero Cain]

What are your reads on Fubber and Muffin.

[Scripten]

What are your reads on Fubber and Muffin.

I'm not sure on Flubber. Leaning slightly scummy. Muffin is town.

[Scripten]

I'd rather not be on a lynch with Garmr, but one scumteam having two kills seems unlikely to me so it's possible that he and Thor are not aligned.

Wow, my reading comprehension fails tonight. I thought Garmr was on the Thor wagon. I'd love to build his wagon up, but the wagon on Thor is more solid than my case...

[Nero Cain]

Why are you leaning scummy on flubber?