NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #2600 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:13 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2594, Nero Cain wrote:Delayed OMGUS in 3...2...


huh?

You think I am going to OMGUS you for some weak kneed, limp wristed push like this?

In post 2587, Nero Cain wrote:maybe Axle
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Post Post #2601 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:17 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

PC note: The reference to limp wristed(meaning 2) is a descriptive reference to the lack of force with which it is made.
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Post Post #2602 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:44 pm

Post by Boonskiies »

You realize good morning is in my neighborhood, right?
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Post Post #2603 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:49 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2602, Boonskiies wrote:You realize good morning is in my neighborhood, right?


as I regard neighborhoods as not alignment indicative it wasnt important.

but yes, I realize that.

Is there something in my posts that makes you think I dont?


You are still not clarifying if you have or have not responded to
Is there problem with explaining how your D1 statements line up with your day 2, refinements on your soft claim?
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Post Post #2604 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:10 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2602, Boonskiies wrote:You realize good morning is in my neighborhood, right?


also please start actually reading what I write..
Spoiler: What I wrote
Trimmed quote
In post 2593, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2590, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2588, AxleGreaser wrote:There are indeed scummy people
in Hoods
.

Who
in the hoods
are scummy and why?


Good morning
is scummy for the reasons stated yesterday when I voted him.


are you trying to work stuff out at all?
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Post Post #2605 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:41 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 2590, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2588, AxleGreaser wrote:There are indeed scummy people in Hoods.

Who in the hoods are scummy and why?


Also
In post 714, Scripten wrote:My neighborhood is davesaz, Nero Cain, and TSO. I believe this may have already come out, but I'd like it in my ISO for people to see.


Scum read TSO
Same reasons as yesterday for TSO.

What kind of question is
that?
(apart from a distraction)

@Nero Cain

Were you unaware that I had found TSO quite scummy yesterday and posted multiple times on why?

So yeah do note when I said there were scummy people in the hoods, I didnt have current list, of which people I found scummy were in hoods,....
(I did only remember at least some were)
because

being in hood has nothing to do with whether or not I view them as scummy.

but you a person who is interested in hoods,
have paid enough attention to me to decide <
nope you understand my positions and find them scummy enough to lynch today...
>

but also
Don't know, my stated scum reads recent and major, are in hoods?

or what exactly is the purpose of your question?
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Post Post #2606 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:47 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

@GARMR
Its new day but

respond to .

I spoent long time yesterday getting to the point where I was sure you both understood Aneninens meta,
and understood "Boonskies is Boonskies: is a claim about Boonskies meta

and still stood by the kind of reasoning you put in

so Id like to discuss my criticism of your position that I put in as i find some of your reasoning not to make sense as coming from a towny.
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Post Post #2607 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:09 pm

Post by Boonskiies »

I'm not answering it because you'll just come up with an ignorant response, so I decide that I'm better off just ignoring you so I don't get frustrated.
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Post Post #2608 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:23 pm

Post by Izariael »

In post 2572, Boonskiies wrote:Aneninen also mentioned some kind of plan to build a wagon on Iz, and he died. Someone in my neighborhood is scum.

We don't know for certain that both events are related. There were
two deaths
last night. Assuming event A (Aneninen's neighbourhood discussion) is tied to event B (his death) is a dangerous way to analyze it. There are alternate possibilities, and his death may have nothing to do with our hood's activity last night. Putting all eggs into one basket without first looking at the others is not making a safe assumption, IMHO.

Also, the fact that you didn't even read his plan enough to be able to describe it for everyone kind of shows the attentiveness you had in the hood last night. Just sayin'. Didn't really feel like you were all there. It's okay though, you can go back to read it now while I get to paraphrasing the events that transpired in our hood last night. In particular, I think you might want to look at step 2 in his plan, since you missed your opportunity to follow through on it. Shiro as well. "Terrible" things may result from that.
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Post Post #2609 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:26 pm

Post by Izariael »

Also, I would like to throw out that I think the two deaths from last night offers confirmation that we are either dealing with SK or multiball. I'm aware of the possibility of vigilante, but do not think last night was the result of one. I would encourage us to proceed with this, though feel free to think otherwise.
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Post Post #2610 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:28 pm

Post by Boonskiies »

It's definitely not a vigilante.
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Post Post #2611 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:29 pm

Post by Izariael »

In post 2608, Izariael wrote:In particular, I think you might want to look at step 2 in his plan, since you missed your opportunity to follow through on it.


Correction: you did follow through, but it came a bit late. I guess you are still on board though.
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Post Post #2612 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:33 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

So Iz, did you ever follow up on your catchup where you said you found a bunch of posts interesting?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #2613 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:37 pm

Post by Garmr »

-takes a sip of my coffee see's axle debating both boon and nero's convo, opens up my deck pulls out a gun shoots myself-

I would discuss what happened in my neighborhood qt but I don't have one.

Serious note
@people in ane's hood
I got some questions for people in boons neighborhood Did annienen read of boon change in the qt?
Do you think iz is scum?
Is that everything of importance?

@Axle

I'm willing to answer questions as long as they don't get caught up in one subject and we get stuck debating the same thing for the whole day so take them as final and if you have any criticism about it just note it and move TO ANOTHER POST.
Spoiler:
In post 2481, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2441, Garmr wrote:axle this is the last time I'm going to talk about that initial conversation with anne

fuck It here it goes. What I found scummy was I didn't like the he stopped my pressure on boon at the time boon was a weak scum read and I wanted more reactions to get a feel for him. Annenin comes in and trys to dismantle my case because he doesn't agree (Town motive)/wants to discredit(scum motive what I think) he fails to do so as my points still actually stand. I believe he had to try and discredit because I don't think he was expecting to be questioned on 418 becuase he just labeled me as scum because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game, if he is going to label me as scum for my reasoning he should be able to show why it's flawed and then explain the scum motivation behind my post.

Plus I have Labeled other reasons why I think annenien is scummy especially His victim complex in post 1003 and he continues to show it in 1050 trying to gain sympathy.

That's the short of it.


Lets do this one bit at a time
Garmr: "What I found scummy was I didn't like the he stopped my pressure on boon at the time boon was a weak scum read and I wanted more reactions to get a feel for him."
here is way you described it earlier
Garmr: "It's the fact you tried to discredit my points. Which you weren't able to then you just brushed it off passively by saying oh well we don't agree. It really cut any progress on boonskies short as he hasn't provided much content."

So if he failed to discredit your points how did it cut any progress on Boonskies?

While that may be bad play (and personally I do try not to cut across other peoples lines of enquiry.
have you examined how Aneninen plays to see if it was something thats just bound to happen, with how he plays?
He comments on sooooo many things in a post by post way, that if he sees something and has a point of view he posts it.
So Aneninen's natural play is just likely to do that and in 3/4 of the games you play with him he will be town and your likely to scum read him for that....
Seems to me like your tell on him is not very reliable. (You will find him to be scum in 100% of his games)


Well he flipped town so I guess you were right about this bit but I never played a game with him before and this was different than his newbie game(can chalk that up to trying to improve but did the reverse?)



Garmr: "Annenin comes in and trys to dismantle my case because he doesn't agree (Town motive)/wants to discredit(scum motive what I think) he fails to do so as my points still actually stand."

Well he may or may not have tried to dismantle your case.
At the moment I am trying to find out if your case is genuine but wrong, genuine and right and I ought vote it, or scum motivated.
On the other hand as he does know Boonskies play, he may have just been being helpful. I was being helpful but more discreet when i asked you if you had seen a previous Aneninen game.

So somehow the fact that he in your opinion failed to convince
you
that
your
case was wrong makes him scum?
I tell you that is damn high bar to set. You failed to convince me my points against TSO were wrong, does that make you scum?

Not at all but at least but this still a different case from me since he was slightly scum reading boon as well.(didn't figure that out to latter) He flipped town sure so I was wrong but you could at least see things from my view



In fact his(Anens) points were a largely valid. (but unusually expressed.) (See for matching numbers below)
1
Anen said:
Boonskies is Boonskies:
That is to me clearly a claim that Boonskies is playing in way that is compatible with his(Boons) own town meta. Now you can dispute that, but you never have disputed that.
At the time you appeared to even dispute the concept that Boonskies playing according to his town meta would negate your point at all.
"how is that even a defence boon skies is boon skies."

Do note. Clarifying yourself as Boonskies did about his RVS post is a self consciousness tell. Thor is right, to be a better townie Boonskies should stop doing that. If many players did that, I would go hmmm. However for Boonskies nowhere near so much.
Also in that very specific example I can understand how Boonskies could be worried his second vote might be mistaken as serious. (some people appeared to have exited RVS)

I get that now I got to warn you through I'm kinda stubborn. (I have reduced my stubbornness a bit so it's not at toxic levels like before the ban. Before I would do things that would go against my win condition because I was stubborn. Announcing my role to piss people off when I didn't need to just to prove a point, Self hammering as town to prove a point and tunneling people while pretty much ignoring everyone else. Will admit i sometimes still tunnel but I at least listen a little).



2
You claimed Booon doing jack all was scummy(implicitly scummier than other people). That he has done the same stuff as lot of other people does mean that information does not make him scummier than them (baring refinements from meta) Eg If Thor had done as little as Boon... that would be very weird.

Point 3
is very weird.
You claim his intention is to dismantle and discredit your case yet you claim you thought he strengthened one point. HUH!
That is much more consistent with his own description that he was only questioning your reasons as being bad (inconsistent with the facts) not actually purposefully commenting on Boonskies alignment.

However if you go little deeper than Aneninen did. It is sad but tue that Boonskies often really does not comment on much, and him continuing to play VI and be proud of it is not particularly alignment indicative.
There is very good reason Thor considered boonskies(IIRC) and some other players fine Vig shots. it is because they are habitually information free zones.

This is more like a statement than a question. I will agree on this because annien flipped town and I kinda do agree with thor on that boon would of been a ok vig shot at the time.



Garmr: I believe he had to try and discredit because I don't think he was expecting to be questioned on 418 becuase he just labeled me as scum because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game, if he is going to label me as scum for my reasoning he should be able to show why it's flawed and then explain the scum motivation behind my post.


So you believe he made , then you challenged him at on points he didnt think he would be questioned about
and then he made up and wrote in 5 mins flat?
and made points that I have just argued that I find valid?
Sounds to me like he did in fact have those arguments at the top of his head and just typed them when he saw and read your post.

Garmr: to be questioned on 418 becuase he just
labeled me as scum
because of my reasoning for voting boon and getting lost early in the game,

Holy over sensitive souls....
He said in 418
In post 418, Aneninen wrote:Garmr, 360: This was just WTF. What Tha Fukk.


In post 418, Aneninen wrote:Garmr, 415 – that vote, uhhh. If you have told that you had voted for Boonskiies because of lurking and producing nothing I would have believed it. But, what kind of reasoning was that?

Which asked a question so I sure hope he was expecting a response...
and
In post 418, Aneninen wrote:Garmr is FoS-Scum.


Ok
FoS
Garmr
For being overly sensitive about people scum reading him even a tiny bit. Scum are survival oriented and more likely to overreact to suspicion.
So did I do it right?
Garmr: especially His victim complex in post 1003 and he continues to show it in 1050 trying to gain sympathy.

Re victim posts. Do they actually seem out of character? Remember me referring you to a prior game?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5963842
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p5963940
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p5964725

Also that is the weirdest chainsaw / wk I ever saw, 418 lists reasons he claims are believable for your read....
Aneninen:
voted for Boonskiies because of lurking and producing nothing I would have believed it.
Worlds best white knighter.
[/quote]

Yeh I am bit sensitive sometimes and that's a trigger I know exists but can't help through i try to minimize it. On the boat is a example where notscience says something and I tunnel the shit out of him and try to force a 1v1. (We were both town) I will also admit I have a bit of survival instinct in my town games as well as my scum because to be honest I want to be that guy who nails the final scum with his vote. I also enjoy my scum games more than my town games so I sometimes incorporate some of my scum game into my town. It works for me as most people don't even see my scum game as the usual way to play it but I wouldn't recommend it to others.

Also I can say at the time yesterday I would of held down my belief to the last second but now ane flipped well all i can is I was wrong.



I'm going to take a step back and look at this game with different set of lenses.
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Post Post #2614 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:51 pm

Post by Izariael »

In post 2612, Nero Cain wrote:So Iz, did you ever follow up on your catchup where you said you found a bunch of posts interesting?

No, I didn't, but I'm not apologizing for it. I intend to keep my RL matters out of this discussion. That said, there is still time for me to do so. I have lost many of those post numbers that I had set aside, but as I re-read and ISO players during day 2 I am certain that many of those posts will jump out to me again. I think a lot of those things that I found interesting on Day 1 will be part of my day 2 reads, and other stuff may be obsolete or altered by the night 1 events and day 2 on-goings.

My end of day 1 was far less involved than I would have liked, though I don't know that a greater participation on my part could have prevented Pere's mislynch, unfortunately. I mean, I was townreading him within his first 5 posts, but I don't think I could have been convincing enough about
why
I was townreading him to get his wagon disbanded, because it was almost entirely meta from my last game with him.
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Post Post #2615 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:59 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

Do you have any reads other than PV as town and Thor as scum? Just throw some post tags if I missed it.
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Post Post #2616 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:08 pm

Post by Boonskiies »

@Garmr - Anen town read me by saying if anyone in our neighborhood is scum, it's most likely Iz.

Myself/Shiro/Iz/Goodmorning/Aneninen is my neighborhood.
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Post Post #2617 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:27 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 2605, AxleGreaser wrote:@Nero Cain
Were you unaware that I had found TSO quite scummy yesterday and posted multiple times on why?

no

So remind me about why GM and TSO are scummy?


or what exactly is the purpose of your question?

you said you found players in the hoods scummy and I wanted to know who and why. Its quite simple. I also felt like your 2588 was very close to the bullshit that Slandaar was saying and I was interested if you were actully scum reading hoodies.
being in hood has nothing to do with whether or not I view them as scummy.

Well, once again, there were 12 hoodies so I think math (even if things are "random") points to the hoods containing scum 'cause I mean like all 5 or 6 scum hitting outside of of the hoods is low. And if Aegor set this up...mods putting scum in the hoods are a very common thing. So you scum reading players in the hoods while also disagreeing with me that its very likely scum in the hoods seems like a disconnect.

In post 2600, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2594, Nero Cain wrote:Delayed OMGUS in 3...2...


huh?

You think I am going to OMGUS you for some weak kneed, limp wristed push like this?

In post 2587, Nero Cain wrote:maybe Axle

I think my reasoning for suspecting you is solid (you misrepping Boon like that is p bad) though I also find alot of others scummy and I'm not entirely convinced you are scummy bad or just bad.
In post 2598, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2595, Nero Cain wrote:but he's also ignoring the fuck out of that post.


who are you addressing here?

are you claiming I ignored this post and its the justification of dumb or scum?

who are you talking to?

I am addressing you.

Yes, I am claiming that was my justification for scum or dumb.

I'm talking to you.
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edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #2618 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:29 pm

Post by goodmorning »

In post 2575, Boonskiies wrote:There was a lot of conversation in my neighborhood last night, and due to the outcomes of the night, there
has
to be scum in my neighborhood.

I don't necessarily agree.

So, Anen kill thoughts. Could have been Vigged for convoluted D1, SK'd for same/similar, or NK'd by Scum. If NK'd by Scum, there is likely a Scum in my Neighbourhood. Suspect if Vig then one of Axle/TSO/me/Thor would have been target. ofc all this out the window if multiball - but multiball unlikely.
Egg: framing Thor? Or Thor framing Thor?
Thor is Scum anyway.

In post 2593, AxleGreaser wrote:Good morning is scummy for the reasons stated yesterday when I voted him.

I don't remember that happening, but OK.
I went and looked for it and you were sheeping Slaandar basically? I mean, it's fine, but it's a bit weak.
Well, my case against Thor is weak, but at least it's mine.

Nero looks a bit more flippant than I'd like today.

In post 2608, Izariael wrote:Also, the fact that you didn't even read his plan enough to be able to describe it for everyone kind of shows the attentiveness you had in the hood last night. Just sayin'. Didn't really feel like you were all there. It's okay though, you can go back to read it now while I get to paraphrasing the events that transpired in our hood last night. In particular, I think you might want to look at step 2 in his plan, since you missed your opportunity to follow through on it. Shiro as well. "Terrible" things may result from that.

I personally think that plan was a bit of a
terrible
idea, but I would like to hear from you on the subject of the thing I brought up, if you don't mind.

In post 2613, Garmr wrote:@people in ane's hood
I got some questions for people in boons neighborhood Did annienen read of boon change in the qt?
Do you think iz is scum?
Is that everything of importance?

Not that I'm aware of.
Not sure. Depends on some stuff.
For now it is.

In post 2614, Izariael wrote:My end of day 1 was far less involved than I would have liked, though I don't know that a greater participation on my part could have prevented Pere's mislynch, unfortunately. I mean, I was townreading him within his first 5 posts, but I don't think I could have been convincing enough about
why
I was townreading him to get his wagon disbanded, because it was almost entirely meta from my last game with him.

To be quite honest, it wouldn't have helped. Several people were townreading Pere quite a bit. The main issue was that no-one wanted to vote Thor with me or Anen with TSO.

So, people who like to analyse wagons: 2/3 D1 wagons have flipped Town. Is the third Town or Scum?

Vote: Thor
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT
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Post Post #2619 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:34 pm

Post by Boonskiies »

Thor's town. And it's multiball...
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Post Post #2620 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:39 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 2596, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 2587, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 2585, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1813, Boonskiies wrote:
I'm playing the way I am for a reason
. This reason shall be brought out, and most likely the main subject of Day 2.

In post 2581, Boonskiies wrote:This game is based off the neighborhoods. It's meant to be the main points of discussion.


No on D1 one your claim was about your role being "the main subject of D2"

Boons 2581 was saying that...see....mods know what they are doing. When a mod makes a game with hoods they EXPECT hood talk and thats what he was saying. So this looks really misreppy.



You may want to claim its misreppy.

BUT I asked this question

In post 2576, AxleGreaser wrote:The earlier details of your hard/soft claim
Spoiler: other bits
In post 1253, Boonskiies wrote:There's a reason I soft claimed and not full claimed. I never usually can stay active during large games early phase, so I believed if I hinted at my role a little, it would cause some discussion and allow myself to not seem like I'm not putting anything forward. It has created discussion, and therefore I feel as it was a success. Day 2 I should be much more useful.

In post 1813, Boonskiies wrote:I'm playing the way I am for a reason. This reason shall be brought out, and most likely
the main subject of Day 2
.


Day 2 details of your claim
In post 2563, Boonskiies wrote:Anenien was very prominent in our neighborhood last night, along with Iz.
I claimed that I have a protective role in the thread
, and also asked who people thought would be worth protecting.
I did not claim any role, nor will I be doing so toDay
. The way I said it made it seem like I had a limited use, which Iz pointed out in the thread also. I feel Iz thought he could get some town cred by not killing me after I claimed that I was a protective role, since he most likely thought I was just some noob not knowing what to do, and since he thought I slipped that I had a limited power role, he'd be fine not killing me. I expect there to be at least one scum in my neighborhood, since we are the biggest neighborhood, and Anen is now dead. Goodmorning, Shiro, and Iz have at least one scum there, and I'm banking on it being Iz.

Yesterdays days claims and todays, Dont line up.

Explain why you think that was going to be
"main subject of Day 2"

Spoiler: other bits
As Iz pointed it out in the thread.... (hence everyone knew)
Your argument that Iz wanted town cred for not killing you... ALSO means everyone who read that also gets town cred for not killing you...
If there is town cred for not killing you, then it is some evidence that there are no scum in your hood as no matter who the scum is they saw what Iz pointed out..




He made this POST
In post 2581, Boonskiies wrote:This game is based off the neighborhoods. It's meant to be the [color=#FF000]main points of discussion.[/color]


I interpret that as reply to me.

Where is the misrep?

Well, Boon is a claimed VI. He softclaimed yesterday. He said he'd talk about it today. I think its obvious that his softclaim was going to be and will be for the remainder of the game until he flips (or full claims), a major point of discussion. As I said, he's a claimed Vi (and maybe I'm giving him too much credit here) I don't actually think he's dumb enough to go "hey ya'll are going to talk about me!" and then when you ask him why he thinks that (which was a super dumb questions anways) he talks about the hoods?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #2621 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:44 pm

Post by davesaz »

@Boon: Why are you so sure about both points?
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Post Post #2622 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:48 pm

Post by Boonskiies »

Actually, the night changed how I felt about everything. People I've played with know I purposely play the Village Idiot, and am actually a lot more competent than I let off. But yeah, things went differently for me than expected, and I'll hopefully be able to go back on route soon. I actually wasn't paying much attention to this game before the night phase, due to me being too lazy to read everything, and I was super into my other game that had just finished. Anywho, yes.


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Post Post #2623 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:49 pm

Post by Boonskiies »

@Dave - which points are you referring to?
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Post Post #2624 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:49 pm

Post by Izariael »

In post 2616, Boonskiies wrote:@Garmr -
Anen town read me by saying if anyone in our neighborhood is scum, it's most likely Iz.


Myself/Shiro/Iz/Goodmorning/Aneninen is my neighborhood.


I think you've left out a lot of context from the post you are referencing and the discussion that followed, and should NOT be using this as an answer to Garmr's question.
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