NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

[Aneninen]

Aneninen, that's twice you've dodged the question. Did you even consider heph's town meta, especially in large games, before calling the slot scum for lurking?

No. My read was based upon two games I met him.
I didn't meta him in another way because I had stronger scumreads at that time. I didn't meta him later because he replaced out. Right now I'm waiting for more Beast posts.

[Aneninen]

@Slandaar: I've checked Goodmorning's ISO. She's been pushing Thor hard and I bet you meant that. However, she's been interacting with other players as well. I'm not saying that she's town but I don't think she's scummier than many players here.

UNVOTE:
– because I have two better ideas. I'll tell it later. Because I strongly think whatever sort of case I posted, it would be called bullshyt because of the author of the post. So, I'm waiting and reading.

[Thor665]

[T S O]

if you want to stop playing that card that'd be

great

[Aneninen]

If players stopped voting me whenever I posted a case based upon only the case itself or without a case at all, that'd be

great

.

[Nero Cain]

WHITE FLOUR!

[TierShift]

I don't think anen is scum, actually. But removing him wouldn't really hurt...

[Boonskiies]

unvote

Catching up.

[The Fonz]

Holy walls.

I just spent at least an hour and a half, maybe more, trying to triple-iso Anen, TSO and Axle. I am now very confident Anen-TSO is a town fight that spiralled from Anen initially interpreting a couple of TSO posts in a really weird way, then TSO dismissing a decent point of Anen's as terrible... TSO makes a couple of factually false representations of Anen's play... Basically it feels like their antipathy has snowballed into this perpetual motion of mutual loathing and incomprehension. I'm not voting for either any time soon.

[AxleGreaser]

Axle, once again, I can't read spoiler tags from my phone. Please stop using them.

it a cost benefit

trade off

thing.
I will try,

are you saying you only post from your phone?

Spoilers fold up daunting piles of fluff and make it easier for others to see whats going on.
(personally my expression would be clearer if i had two levels of nested spoilers!!)
(I think nested(hyperlinked), English is linear, yuk, hence I speak gak not Engrish)

From you point of view from you phone, when you are on your phone you cant.
needs of the many vs the few. (I am trying to see how much it hurts or whether you can see them at some time.)
posting only large raw text and quote walls will mean others effectively wont see them either (glaze over effect)

2283 spoiler about drunk posts referred to this exchange 385 393 the discussion
yet at 1430 there is a drunk post
1431 there is Thor ignoring it.
Where is PereV watching out for it?
yeah the original stuff was always BS... why was it BS?

as I said:
"I never really got the feel the PereV Thor interaction got more for real than that. At least one of them did not seem to have their heart in it."
specifically I didn't feel PereV was trying to lynch Thor as probable scum while PereV was voting Thor.

Note having no capacity to read spoiler at any time means you cant read significant parts of these posts either 0 1
pretty sure day night actions rules might be important at some time.
your problem seems larger than my posts, but I will try. (links out side spoilers that contain quotes may help) (inline spoilered quotes are clearer for others and links workable by you?)
personally I use two wide screen monitors to play mafia... (and an 8 screen virtual desktop is available if I get spr srs) YMMV.

as that is all gamme irrelvant crap, normally Id put it in a spoiler so only the relevant person could read it.
Sorry for wasting everyone elses time.

[T S O]

Holy walls.

I just spent at least an hour and a half, maybe more, trying to triple-iso Anen, TSO and Axle. I am now very confident Anen-TSO is a town fight that spiralled from Anen initially interpreting a couple of TSO posts in a really weird way, then TSO dismissing a decent point of Anen's as terrible... TSO makes a couple of factually false representations of Anen's play... Basically it feels like their antipathy has snowballed into this perpetual motion of mutual loathing and incomprehension. I'm not voting for either any time soon.

i do?

[The Fonz]

Yes. I've logged off my PC now - might explain exactly where tomorrow.

[The Fonz]

As in, I have like am hour on the train before going full on no access.

[TierShift]

I like fonz's observation.

[AxleGreaser]

TSO makes a couple of factually false representations of Anen's play..

Indeed and you know TSOs factually false representations of Anen's play are from a towny how?

I am happy to believe TSO gets his jollies like that, but it doesnt actually fit with my recollection of his play in the past.

Believe me, T S O can fake annoying anger. It's what helps him win scumgames.

do you know he cant do that?

Basically it feels like their antipathy has snowballed into this perpetual motion of mutual loathing and incomprehension.

really I saw it as a little less even handed.... Except I have links to actual posts.

---

965 is TSO agreeing that is what his case is (aka I cant have misrepresented it he agrees) (TSOs case consists of 421 383

here is Anenine NO antipathy, no fake anger, just being as towny as Aneninen is. 424

Here is TSO stoking that antiptahy

What would you grade your reading ability, out of 10? Right now it's a 3 and going down constantly.

471
While Aneneines original point is not a particularly good one, Aneninens point that TSO is claiming people who have played as little with him as Aneninen has is valid. TSO is really happy to play the you dont know shit about my meta card when he wants to, but also wants to to claim Aneninen who has no way to know shit about his meta (and is so unreliable that TSO disagrees with everything he says...) will back him up....

Personally i am not feeling that TSO was ever sincere.

Eventually recently it does devolve into mess, but back then there was one person backing his truck up and taking a dump on another player seemingly for the purpose of getting into a shit fight.

The story of TSO:
Hmmm.

TSO vs Csaero

<RAGE RAGE RAGE>
<put downs {90+others} to fuel the RAGE>
<TSO: damn that guy got mod killed.>

OMGUS CHO vs 58 "she can be town"

TSO vs Aneneinen <TSO: OMGUS421 422 Aneninen, fake more anger>

Do I have to respond to Aneninen's posts of bad?

<Axle thinks: Well you do but only if you actually think he is scum and actually want him lynched...
<TSO: weeee home free>

Axle... asks some questions... <TSO: Damn... 4th time lucky?> <TSO: nvm: OMGUS Axle, must fake yet more anger. RAGE RAGE RAGE.>

The end.
No one lived happily ever after.

[TierShift]

Davesaz ISO is done. I don't see a whole lot of analysis or engaging but I like what I'm seeing.

Spoiler: posts that ring town

I don't think that not posting in the neighborhood pregame can be used for alignment. People could have misinterpreted the thread being open as a mod mistake and just not gotten around to posting there.

Thor is posting longer analysis than he did in a newbie game we both replaced into and were town. But I don't find that aspect of his posting to be alignment indicative since there are so many more players here. The style is similar to that game. Yes, this is me using meta, about the first time I've been able to apply it on this site. On top of that, I see town motivation behind the things that Thor is doing. Thor goes in my town pile, but I also think he's skilled enough to do this as scum so it's not a permanent thing.

The reason I voted PeregrineV is that his post of reads was very comprehensive but mostly really thin. I believe I commented that I didn't see how there could be so many reads with so little information. When I combined that with the aspect that Thor pointed out (Pere seems to be fishing for a 2nd scum team) it pushed Pere firmly into scum territory for me.

I have that same game quoted above in common with Scripten. He was scum in that game. The dry sense of humor seems very similar. One of the things on my todo list is to look at his non humor posting and see if it is also similar to the sample game. Null pending going back through the sections of thread where he appears.

I really hesitate to post on this, because setup discussions bother me. But there is some evidence that misinformation about the setup could be used as a tool and I dislike that even more than the mere discussion. I'm going to take that bull by the horns and give an example. I also noticed the different size neighborhoods. I think it would be a huge mistake to assume that existence of a smaller neighborhood (3) means that none of those people could be (or are likely to be) scum. In fact a Pere scum read pretty much demands the logic that hood size is not alignment indicative, since he's one of the members of the 3. I will note that if Thor were scum, then an assumption that a 3-hood is 2 scum from different factions and a townie would result in the Thor v. Pere situation. Not that it changes my read right now, but another reason to not consider my Thor read as permanent. And to reiterate, making that assumption, or any other assumption about neighborhood makeup, is inherently dangerous. Like WIFOM with both glasses poisoned dangerous. We should try to ignore the hoods and just hunt scum as though we don't know about them.

I've seen a few people quoting this post.

Scum will have knowledge of all neighborhoods they have a member in. Town does not have general neighborhood knowledge, unless we reveal the neighborhoods before any of us are eliminated. The only knowledge that scum^* gain from reveals is any neighborhoods they don't have members in. It doesn't seem to help scum.

Things which reduce the gap between what scum know and what town know is good for town.

(*) Scum and other factions <if any>

You have to ask why the footnote? Really?

I don't enjoy being tunneled. Too many people in this game appear ready to tunnel folks because their posts do, or do not, seem to have setup knowledge. You know, the posts which say something about multiball. If I don't like something, I do things that I hope will avoid it.

For the record, since there is so much (IMO distracting and really unnecessary) discussion about the topic:

• I define multiball,for the purpose of this discussion, as more than one non-town faction. I
  don't care
  if you agree. I don't care what the wiki says.
  
• The odds favor more than one faction.
  
• Some people could read the townie role PM, quoted in 2 as implying that there are multiple factions.
  
• The quoted post by me says that scum (and other factions) gain knowledge of the neighborhoods they don't belong to. Town gains knowledge of all neighborhoods. Therefore I think that town gains more from revealing than non-town.

When I post something which requires precise language, I use it. When caveats are needed, I post them.

End of PSA.

Davesaz is really glaringly posting lots of IIoA. Newbie though. Consider this a warning to be more proactive.

It would be a bit easier if anyone was commenting on what I say. Some of the information is intended to generate a response which can then be analyzed.
I see a whole lot of stuff going by which either doesn't change my reads or doesn't apply at all. What am I supposed to do, comment on it anyway?

I'm quite surprised that nobody scumread me after I "caught" Egg having "scum knowledge".

This brings up two inconsistencies. Some players are seen as scummy if they point out other players who seem to have inside information, but other players who make the same observation are not scummy. And there seems to be a double standard on the posting of apparent inside information as well.

UNVOTE:

Dave, why do you townread thor? Who next to pere do you scumread? why?

[T S O]

I'd love you to pinpoint how I misrepped Aneninen and I'd love you to tell me where we've previously played together.

[AxleGreaser]

– because I have two better ideas. I'll tell it later. Because I strongly think whatever sort of case I posted, it would be called bullshyt because of the author of the post. So, I'm waiting and reading.

http://www.21st-century-christianity.co ... p-11-5.jpg

Hi when people call not bullshit, bullshit, for bullshit reasons, I find scum?
Why you not/stop playing on my team?
Its a game people lie. (mumble, prevaricate, dissemble, creatively omit, and RAGE RAGE RAGE.. => yawn?)

The

better ideas

? distill them so they are smaller then post them.

I have ideas that I sometimes dont post, because their time is not yet ripe, thats different.
The worst thing that can happen to a towny is be shut down. Survival is an inherently scum mindset.
Playing well with others is a town one. So a balance between not screaming at the thread hey I solved the game, and not being shut down is the key.

Excuses dont play well as either alignment.

[goodmorning]

[obligatory prodding at Thor post]
Maybe the Anen wagon should move to Axle?

Better yet, let's lynch Thor.[/obligatory prodding at Thor post]

[AxleGreaser]

I'd love you to tell me where we've previously played together.

you really do seem to have this game arse up

Here is you claiming you had played with him and that he could comment on your meta?

I don't lurk as scum.

Aneninen

, Cho, Egg, Thor and Pere have all

seen my scumgame when it's working decently.

You can ask them.

[AxleGreaser]

Maybe the Anen wagon should move to Axle?

so does that come with reasons, or is it a feeling post?

[TierShift]

halfway through my egg read

Spoiler: stuff I like from egg

I kind of feel like goodmorning is trying to paint csar as scummy rather than show a genuine scum read though.

oh wait that was shorter than I thought for real[/spoiler]

And when I ISO'd you for TSO mentions, I found a lot of mentions of him, but couldn't tell what your actual read on him was until I saw your vote on him. Everything from you about TSO seems off to me.

I read my own ISO and I can't really find that many mentions of TSO. I asked him something maybe once? What do you mean here?

/confirm neighbors with Pere and Thor. Thor looked town in the neighborhood.

Is he still looking town there? Why/how?

[Thor665]

[obligatory prodding at Thor post]
Maybe the Anen wagon should move to Axle?

Better yet, let's lynch Thor.[/obligatory prodding at Thor post]

Shhhh, I'm scumhunting you by not interacting with you.

[T S O]

I am happy to believe TSO gets his jollies like that, but it doesnt actually fit with my recollection of his play in the past.

Before you tell me I'm not following the game, get fucking literate. Thanks.

[Aegor]

bump