NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

[Izariael]

We need mac in this game then we can have egg mac muffin :p

This post was magical and woke me up a bit, as I was starting to drift off in my office chair. I'm back to sleepy eyes though. My momma says it's past my bedtime so I'm being sent to bed

Currently on page 66 of reading; got like 900 bajillion open tabs of posts that interest me.

Garmr seems mildly town. Tiershift and Flubber feel town.

Peregrine vs. Thor is causing my brain to implode on itself from boredom. Both are guilty of creating equal parts intensity and apathy in this game, which is equal parts intriguing and frustrating. However, having played with town-Peregrine very recently, his posting style and the arguments he's been making fall in line with what I am expecting from town-Peregrine. Unless someone is wanting/able to show that he plays his town and scum games identically, then his behavior here has me reading him as town...

I think I need to ISO Thor once I'm caught up fully, because reading his posts right now is like listening to the teacher from Peanuts. The only thing I've managed to retain from his spiels is that he's townreading all of the people on the Pere wagon... and some comment about how the people he's townreading haven't been wagoned. Or something. Yeah, I'll probably find something later to jog my memory. It's on one of these tabs I'm sure. Bottom line is: I think he's a much better lynch than Peregrine, whom I have deemed to be a mislynch.

Aneninen looks a little suspicious. Fonz feels like scum to me.

VOTE: Thor665

@Thor: Which of your reads in 1022 are strong reads? Are all of them committed?

[Aneninen]

@Everyone: does the difference I've written above exist between Mini and Large games?

Yes, when there are more players there is usually more posting and more threads of conversation.

In this case I'll try to adopt a more suitable gameplay. (I know others answered the same thing as Thor but I only needed to quote one of these answers.)

I find this speculation a bit pointless. First of all, there might be an SK, regardless of the size of the scum team(s). Second, a 17:2:2 would be way to swingy, in my opinion. Unless all the scums are x-shot bulletproof or something like that but, we'll never be able to find these things out until we see a scumflip (or more)..

not really speculating. I'm backing up my accusation that scum already know the size of their team and thus have a good insight into weather the game is mb or not. This was also a reply to Garmrs accusation that I was contradicting myself 'cause I was (slightly) backtracking that scum knew if it was mb or not. I also think 3 kills a night are a no so its gonna be 1 team + sk or two teams.

Needn't we wait until Day2 with these kind of speculations?

@GM-Why is Foz scum?

Because he hasn't actually done shit. At some point this weekend I'll demonstrate that even his one apparently contributory post was actually useless.

I quick-ISO-ed him and I disagree.

I don't like TSO's attempted use of appeal to his own authority. I have not looked deeply into the reasons it came up, and have no real desire to do so. Even if it were in direct response to something like "your case is crap", using previous results to show he can catch scum (in a good game for him) doesn't give a free pass on proving his case in this game. If someone challenges his case, he needs to be able to back it up. If he can't back it up, admit it was a bad case and move on. Not being able to back a case, and in particular being unwilling to back it, is scummy. Notice I'm not focusing on the AtA itself, but the lack of backing on the case.

Regardless of TSO's alignment this is a towntell, in my opinion.

@Garmr. You wrote in 1440 that you believed Boon's softclaim. Why are you still talking about my post 420 about him?

Boon you need to make your cop breadcrumbs less obvious in future. Scum are just going to kill you n1 now making your power worthless.

Wait-oh. Had anyone said before this post that Boon might be a Cop?

[AxleGreaser]

My playstyle is to call stuff I think is shit, shit. It doesn't mean I think I'm great. You know that, Axle, so why are you trying to say I do?

Also, many people have played with scum-me here and know my playstyle - Thor, for one, has and he's not scumreading me. Fairly sure gm has, he's not scumreading me. Cho has and, afaik, she wasn't scumreading me. Garmr probably has. PeregrineV has and he's not scumreading me either.

Either you think I'm supernaturally good at subverting my town meta, or I'm town. You're claiming the former, but you're not really backing it up one bit,

You are indeed correct, and if the people who are not scum reading you never do, then I will never lynch you.
Then at the end of the day i will support the best wagon I can.

That you have OMGUS voted me, and refsued to and _had_ shut down communication...also speaks volumes and I dont give fuck what anyobody says about that
if that is your modus operandi as town, then as town you play for the scum team as far as I am concerned.

Just think, if in some game, you are town and I am scum, you can be the hero and pump me for associations, but nope your too busy saying fuck you I wont talk to you?

and you're town, and you claim that is how you normally play.... and ....

[T S O]

I don't, usually.

When someone repeatedly tunnels for me for 10+ pages straight and shows no interest in changing their opinion when they get answers, that's when I get hostile.

[AxleGreaser]

I don't, usually.

When someone repeatedly tunnels for me for 10+ pages straight and shows no interest in changing their opinion when

they get answers

, that's when I get hostile.

<strike added by me>
I never got an answer to my question.

You claimed this

Don't get me wrong, though, he's done plenty of scummy shit.

You tested, one scummy thing you had here 1229 and I believe retracted that its not scummy here 1240

other than your one sentence statement, you never even explained specifically what was unatural about the progression.

That has not for yet shown me a single scummy thing you had.

Your clear reluctance to actual provide reasoning, is scummy as fuck.

[T S O]

I haven't provided -any- resistance to answering when the question is asked by anyone but you (case in point: when I was asked, I've started to make it) because I have no interest in wasting my time posting information no-one wants except you, when you'll just twist whatever I say into me being scum.

[T S O]

My self-masochism has its limits.

[Slandaar]

TSO can you actually post in one place why you think/thought Aneninen is scum please?

[Garmr]

That's kinda bs and hypo fucking critical.

No its not, and this push of your is really very lame, as described the situation are different.

No there fucking not and that's what ticks me off.

did you read 1862 it explains how they are different.

1862 doesn't exist unless its the one tso went oh god not that game which he was lurking in (his not lurking here)? Games I looked at were 536 and 545 which were the only other scum games I could fine because tso laid them out in the game he lurked (I fucking hate doing meta so I hate you so much) and his completely different from here. In those games he didn't focus on a player he keeped his options open he didn't get into giant arguments and he pulled away if one was coming and let town destroy themselves. Those 2 games and this game are totally different from this one.


@ane because some person cough axle brought it up earlier to defend your criticism and he seems to be dragging it out. It's me trying to explain my thought process's at the time and trying to explain what i thought/think yours were.

[AxleGreaser]

I haven't provided -any- resistance to answering when the question is asked by anyone but you (case in point: when I was asked, I've started to make it) because I have no interest in wasting my time posting information no-one wants except you, when you'll just twist whatever I say into me being scum.

see1877, for why doing that is not anti-town and thus scum motivated.

Also oooh goody so you wont talk to the one guy that suspects you. go team TSO.

Imagine if you had,
by now you would have all my claimed but now non existent examples of me twisting your words
and thus lynching me, if only I was scum would be breeze?

How come you are not doing that? (and thus determining my alignment)

Do you know something about my alignment you should not?

Hey look you're scummy again.

[AxleGreaser]

That's kinda bs and hypo fucking critical.

No its not, and this push of your is really very lame, as described the situation are different.

No there fucking not and that's what ticks me off.

did you read 1862 it explains how they are different.

1862 doesn't exist

As it explains, I thought you kinda realise i must have been talking about a post you just read.

This one

Because Tso is being Tso.

Do you have specific game to refer me to that will make your point clear? (so that I can see it for myself)

I expect that to be way harder thing to do as TSO is more experienced player with larger palette of previous play styles as town or scum.

Also I do argue he is better lynch that PereV, or Thor, who I have said I dont want to lynch D1.

This for instance is self described on wiki "Bah. I played fucking shit here."
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=29163
and he does not seem to do the anti town stuff I am talking about there.

Wait you ask me for examples as why tso is being tso but it's ok that annienen didn't provide an example how boon is self conscious as town and your fine with that? (even through i do think his town now.) That's kinda bs and hypo fucking critical. I'm going to show you a game where tso is acting similarly to what he is now except he used no hard cases at all, mini 1510 . He also got into one of his pushes on majiffy like he did with ane this game and it lasted till a majjify lynch if i remember correctly.

This game also shows my 2nd scum tick which i only had 4 times before this game
1.my first normal with banksy flareon
2.that game on grimgrove (tso counter pushed me on this one day 1 i so could of got him lynched but then again i fucked up end game.),
3.Regefan in mafia in space(ffery told me to shut up about regefan because she was in a foul mood and he was her number 1 town read I was right she was wrong instinct vs theory)
and 4. a game with Beelzebub in georgetown(yuck belzefail).

Axle you are my 5th to trigger this instinct in a strong enough manner.

No it

is

ok that you didnt provide them in the first place. (doing so would have made your post excessively long)

However I am now asking you to back up your claim.
Feel very very very free to also do that with Aneninen.

What I dont like is this kind of response

I really don't agree with anything Aneninen is saying right now.

as it does not promote discussion. Its not refutable. Aneneinen tried a bit clumsily to point out TSO cant mean disagrees with literally everything.
but TSO just slapped that away aswell

[Garmr]

@axle oh well the misunderstanding caused me to meta tso which is a positive thing. I did read it but thought a town annenian would back up his reasoning when i said boon is just boon is not an excuse. I felt you held a double standard to something you support and which you don't.

[T S O]

TSO can you actually post in one place why you think/thought Aneninen is scum please?

Yeah, yeah, I'm doing it.

I haven't provided -any- resistance to answering when the question is asked by anyone but you (case in point: when I was asked, I've started to make it) because I have no interest in wasting my time posting information no-one wants except you, when you'll just twist whatever I say into me being scum.

see1877, for why doing that is not anti-town and thus scum motivated.

Also oooh goody so you wont talk to the one guy that suspects you. go team TSO.

Imagine if you had,
by now you would have all my claimed but now non existent examples of me twisting your words
and thus lynching me, if only I was scum would be breeze?

How come you are not doing that? (and thus determining my alignment)

Do you know something about my alignment you should not?

Hey look you're scummy again.

This post

beautifully

illustrates my point about you not caring about the answers you get or the logic you use and calling me scum anyway. Thank you.

[TierShift]

I'm sort of reading and liking slandaar.

[T S O]

Oh hey, look, Tier said he wasn't 100% reading! Hey Axle, here's my scumbuddy!

[Scripten]

I'm sort of reading and liking slandaar.

I like that he's started conversations outside the ones that were already there and that his posts seem to be discouraging tunneling. What's your take?

[TierShift]

I feel very discouraged from reading because all the discussion before I left was nonsense and it probably is now. We nded a flip. Pere wouldn't be my first choice, but I can live with it

Oh hey, look, Tier said he wasn't 100% reading! Hey Axle, here's my scumbuddy!

I'm sort of reading and liking slandaar.

I like that he's started conversations outside the ones that were already there and that his posts seem to be discouraging tunneling. What's your take?

Yeah, that. I skimmed through his ISO and was like 'hey, this kid says things that are true and are new'.

[Scripten]

I feel very discouraged from reading because all the discussion before I left was nonsense and it probably is now. We nded a flip. Pere wouldn't be my first choice, but I can live with it

Agreed. Let's do something new. Who do you think would be the best choice to lynch today?

[TierShift]

From what I remember of this game I'd go with muffin or davesaz.

[TierShift]

If it hasn't been done, I want to point out this link to TSO:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=58767
This was the reason why I somewhat townread anen earlier, I was scum there and I already knew he was town. His play here feels the same as it did there. Please read starting from where he replaced in, TSO.

[TierShift]

Reading izar's 1875 makes me want to be on the thor wagon.

VOTE: thor

[AxleGreaser]

TSO can you actually post in one place why you think/thought Aneninen is scum please?

Yeah, yeah, I'm

doing

it.

meaning that back when you were voting Aneninen, driving that wagon and

you not only hadn't posted case but had not (before now?) specifically identified which posts you thought, yeah that is scummy because....
is that what you are telling me?

EBWOP I fixed a typo induced double negative

I haven't provided -any- resistance to answering when the question is asked by anyone but you (case in point: when I was asked, I've started to make it) because I have no interest in wasting my time posting information no-one wants except you, when you'll just twist whatever I say into me being scum.

see 1877, for why doing that is

not

anti-town and thus scum motivated.

Also oooh goody so you wont talk to the one guy that suspects you. go team TSO.

Imagine if you had,
by now you would have all my claimed but now non existent examples of me twisting your words
and thus lynching me, if only I was scum would be breeze?

How come you are not doing that? (and thus determining my alignment)

Do you know something about my alignment you should not?

Hey look you're scummy again.

This post

beautifully

illustrates my point about you not caring about the answers you get or the logic you use and calling me scum anyway. Thank you.

As I in fact explained why what you did was not pro town, I do indeed think it beautifully illustrates points.
As I did in fact address the answer and what you have been posting, it seems more like I really care about your answers

you however seem only concerned that unless I am not town reading you, you are OMGUS me.

[AxleGreaser]

EBWOP

you however seem only concerned that unless I am

not

town reading you, you are OMGUS me.

[AxleGreaser]

I'm sort of reading and liking slandaar.

I like that he's started conversations outside the ones that were already there and that his posts seem to be discouraging tunneling. What's your take?

I want his babies.

[goodmorning]

He comes off as scum to you?

Who, Slandaar?
Yes.

@dave: If you think of anything else you'd like to discuss just let me know.

I didn't mean that he was tunneling. TSO does that regardless. I meant that he was in a discussion with no percentage.

I think I understand what you are saying. On that basis.

What is his percentage in the discussion as town?

There's no percentage in the discussion period. Not as Town, not as Scum, not as TFPTSLOOIA.

@Axle: TSO calls people stupid when he's getting annoyed. None of the quotes you quoted appear to have anything to do with cases.

Spoiler:

Today is Day 1. If you don't get why that makes a difference then perhaps you should try to figure it out.

So, if scum claims PR D1 they are immune to being lynched bar a cc for D1? What about D2? well I think they have not had long enough as scum can risk one night right? D3? so much suspicion on them that scum wouldn't kill...

Where is this magical line that you actually think PR claims can be lynched? What happens when they claim they are RB'ed or some such?



I know you didn't mention scum claiming PR but it's all the same argument, if you don't think scum try to lynch town PR's then either you think that anyone who tries to lynch a town PR is town (clearly wrong) OR you think no-one tries to lynch them so by extension you cannot lynch scum claiming PR either (bar cc) because obviously you can get it wrong...

You actually think I am going to believe you think scum and by extension NO-ONE would try to lynch PR claims on D1? You are mistaken.

I'm not having this discussion with you any longer.

I'm sorry you replaced into a Scum slot, but sidetracking me with theory discussions is not helpful.

Yes, yes, 'you replaced into a scum slot'. Very original. I assume I will see a well written case by you when I am fully caught up?

If one could write a case well off 6 contentless posts then I already would have. I can only say that what I saw from Aeronaut here was not what I saw from Town-him in NY176, which he also replaced out of. I don't believe meta is particularly convincing to anyone else though, nor should it be.

@Izariael: that post is sweeettt

I look forward to your discussion of "things that are interesting"

@GM-Why is Foz scum?

Because he hasn't actually done shit. At some point this weekend I'll demonstrate that even his one apparently contributory post was actually useless.

I quick-ISO-ed him and I disagree.

Just a thought - it might be more useful to wait until I've pointed out why he's been useless, but I'll keep this post in mind when he flips Scum.

Reading izar's 1875 makes me want to be on the thor wagon.

VOTE: thor

awwww yissssssss