NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #1675 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:25 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1674, Flubbernugget wrote:Yup. I don't read well. Told ya one of us was dumb.

The majority of your read states that other people are making bad pushes on him.


I made it clear what it would take to make an actual case on him,
which clarifies my position on him rather significantly.
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Post Post #1676 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:32 pm

Post by davesaz »

@Flubbernugget: Regarding a fairly recent colorful post that you replied to. Sometimes a scum hunter needs to know something about the player specifically targeted by the question. When other people grab onto that question is can interfere with the attempted read.
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Post Post #1677 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:38 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

Good.

Fuck the multiball read.

You're beating the maggots growing in the dead horse.
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Post Post #1678 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:41 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

I think my question of why axle was encouraging a gamestate stall was more important.
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Post Post #1679 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:42 pm

Post by Muffin »

One's self-meta cannot be known without invalidating it.
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Post Post #1680 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:57 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 1678, Flubbernugget wrote:I think my question of why axle was encouraging a gamestate stall was more important.

I got something useful technique-wise from his reply to your question about it. I already knew a little of the technique and had previously used it to decide whether to vote PV. I hope that this back and forth didn't screw the process he was trying to use. I don't think these 3-4 posts will actually stall things, and I think if it does then we look at the people who make too much of it.

Thanks. The abbreviations page now has a link. :cool:
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Post Post #1681 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:06 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1680, davesaz wrote:I got something useful technique-wise from his reply to your question about it. I already knew a little of the technique and had previously used it to decide whether to vote PV. I hope that this back and forth didn't screw the process he was trying to use. I don't think these 3-4 posts will actually stall things, and I think if it does then we look at the people who make too much of it.


You better be careful this thinking about he game stuff will get you in trouble.
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Post Post #1682 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:17 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

In post 1680, davesaz wrote:I got something useful technique-wise from his reply to your question about it. I already knew a little of the technique and had previously used it to decide whether to vote PV. I hope that this back and forth didn't screw the process he was trying to use. I don't think these 3-4 posts will actually stall things, and I think if it does then we look at the people who make too much of it.


No I already tried that and I wasn't making a case, failing at reaction testing, and making a big stink about nothing.
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Post Post #1683 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:32 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1682, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 1680, davesaz wrote:I got something useful technique-wise from his reply to your question about it. I already knew a little of the technique and had previously used it to decide whether to vote PV. I hope that this back and forth didn't screw the process he was trying to use. I don't think these 3-4 posts will actually stall things, and I think if it does then we look at the people who make too much of it.


No I already tried that and I wasn't making a case, failing at reaction testing, and making a big stink about nothing.


So have I got his right, you are claiming you was, "reaction testing?, and making a big stink about nothing."

See my earlier post.
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Post Post #1684 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:33 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

/sarcasm
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Post Post #1685 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:41 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1684, Flubbernugget wrote:/sarcasm


What was sarcasm.

talk about stalling the game state and adding irrelevant unintelligble crap to the thread. PKB.

have you claimed what you recently did with me was
1 a reaction test?
2 "and making a big stink about nothing."
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Post Post #1686 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:47 pm

Post by Muffin »

Whining about stalling the game causes the game to remain stalled. Just knock it off and scumhunt.

What is your read on PerV, axle?
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Post Post #1687 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:15 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1686, Muffin wrote:Whining about stalling the game causes the game to remain stalled. Just knock it off and scumhunt.

What is your read on PerV, axle?


Would you like to ask me about something else at this time?

My read on the situation is similar to his, unless something changes one of Him or Thor seems like likely lynch.
For some reason inexplicable to me other people don't have a problem with TSOs play enough to vote him yet.

I guess this one is me dodging at this time.
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Post Post #1688 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:57 pm

Post by Muffin »

In post 1687, AxleGreaser wrote:Would you like to ask me about something else at this time?

My read on the situation is similar to his, unless something changes one of Him or Thor seems like likely lynch.
For some reason inexplicable to me other people don't have a problem with TSOs play enough to vote him yet.

I guess this one is me dodging at this time.


Simple question. Is PereV town or scum?
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Post Post #1689 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:05 pm

Post by davesaz »

I've been troubled by TSO returning to the same set of 3 posts, especially after he had appeared ready to drop it in . His posts in the vicinity of and again at look to be ducking the game, perhaps to see if the focus on his tunnel will subside. But then he's back at it in .

On the positive side, TSO has been engaging with multiple players, and does occasionally touch on topics other than Anen. In particular see
Still, that doesn't seem to be generating alternate scum reads.

Axle clearly has two targets, perhaps 3. I find those targets to be worthy of hunting. I don't mind the "dodge", since I understand the undercurrent.

I found it interesting that Flubbernugget and Muffin are both asking questions about Axle's methods at the same time. Could just be a coincidence that this is the current topic. But I'm worried that they seem intent on throwing chum after being explicitly told that there is bait in the water.
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Post Post #1690 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:52 pm

Post by Aneninen »

In post 1613, AxleGreaser wrote:
I can easily suspect TSO's reasons for voting you without knowing or even having strong views of your alignment.
people are attemtping to claim I must prove you are town to believe TSO is scum, that is balderdash.1

If you are scum and he is bussing, his reasons are likely to be crap.
If you are town and he is scum then he is setting you up as what he thought was an easy mislynch, his reasons are likely to be crap.
In either case if I find he has been prosecuting a case against you without really thinking about it and without actual reasons to call you scum, then he is scummy.2


(1) It's not that you should prove that I'm town. It's the style you're protecting me. Your vehemence.
(2) And here, you're completely ignoring the possiblility that there are more scum teams and TSO and I are in different teams. Even if I'm town, noone else knows that for sure right now. Why did you do so? Isn't it possible that
you
and TSO are in different scum teams? (Or, an another possibility, I must admit, I'm mis-reading TSO and you're setting up a lynch?)

In post 1595, AxleGreaser wrote:and nope, I very purposefully did not do the leg work of examining those games ,that I pointed out to you,
but i do want to be sure that your reasons for voting him, when I examine them, have to make sense in light of that game.


Wait-oh. Did you say here that you hadn't examined my previous games?


In post 1623, Muffin wrote:
In post 1612, Aneninen wrote:@Muffin. What was your problem with my TSO vote?

I didn't like the way you seemingly developed a scumread on TSO because he was aggro on you.


He had been on my FoS list before he launched his "so-called case" against me and started voting for me. He became my top-scumread because he didn't provide a real case against me, yet he was (and has been) tunnelling me relentlessly.


Egg wrote:So without the "fucking shitty" etc to make it sound worse, TSO, let me know if I'm understanding your Aneninen case correctly. He called you scum. You said his reasons were bad. He didn't respond. Town would absolutely 100% of the time respond, so he's scum?


You wanted an answer from me.
Your ascertainment is not entirely true. I kept responding TSO for a while and I stopped it because I found out that he was tunnelling me regardless of my posts. (That's what I call playing the "Regardless of Card".)


TSO wrote:Aneninen, at a time
where I was easy to attack
, called me scum for bullshit reasons.


TSO, that's wrong! Read back the first couple of pages. I had been away for a short while and when I caught up you weren't an easy attack any more!

TSO wrote:Oh, it definitely implies a scumread on me. Problem is, I snapped out of being an emo bitch and attacked him for shitty reasoning, and he ...walked away and never replied or defended himself, while still having a scumread on me.


Wrong again. I stopped the conversation only partly because of you. I also thought that Garmrmr's case was pigeon poop, some players started calling me scum without giving reasons about it and two naked votes appeared on me. (Meanwhile, there were zillions of posts about PeregrineV, Scripten, and some other players.)
THAT'SWHY
I stopped replying. I wrote in the following:
"It seems that
many of the active players
are doing the following..."
It was not "TSO is doing..." it was "many of the players". As for my scumread, I've written a lot about it. Plus, I have other scumreads as well. Do you have other scumreads as well?
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Post Post #1691 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:58 pm

Post by T S O »

[quote="In post 1689, davesaz"]I've been troubled by TSO returning to the same set of 3 posts, especially after he had appeared ready to drop it in . His posts in the vicinity of and again at look to be ducking the game, perhaps to see if the focus on his tunnel will subside. But then he's back at it in ./quote]

I agree with this, to an extent. I actually tried to not respond for a bit, but Axle literally keeps throwing shit no matter what I do, so I may as well defend my name against his slander.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #1692 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:58 pm

Post by T S O »

reinoe please play and don't troll this town could really do with someone saying something intelligible
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #1693 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:07 pm

Post by Aneninen »

In post 1636, T S O wrote:
In post 1612, Aneninen wrote:Catching-up. @TSO. As for Hephaestus, ISO him! Naked vote for Nero. Half-hearted focusing on me. Null-ing PerV (not unsorted/unsure, NULL). Naked vote for me. Naked unvote from me. And promises, promises that he will post his reads. Need I say more?

Yes. The majority of those things point to him not giving a fuck about this game. I don't think you're going to be able to prove the difference between that and scum here.


Hephaestus did something similar in a game before, it was abandoned but he was scum.

In post 1653, AxleGreaser wrote:I had read Anenenien games some time ago.
broadly speaking his play was in line with what i expected. (except I thought improved)


Ignore my question in my post above in this case.


@Flubber, – your answers are noted. I don't think you, Muffin and Egg are scum.
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Post Post #1694 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:34 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1690, Aneninen wrote:
In post 1613, AxleGreaser wrote:
I can easily suspect TSO's reasons for voting you without knowing or even having strong views of your alignment.
people are attemtping to claim I must prove you are town to believe TSO is scum, that is balderdash.1

If you are scum and he is bussing, his reasons are likely to be crap.
If you are town and he is scum then he is setting you up as what he thought was an easy mislynch, his reasons are likely to be crap.
In either case if I find he has been prosecuting a case against you without really thinking about it and without actual reasons to call you scum, then he is scummy.2


(1) It's not that you should prove that I'm town. It's the
style
you're protecting me. Your vehemence.

Ok describe the
style
and where it is. Simply saying
style
is hand wavy BS
(watch I will do it down below in this post and you'll go gak)


My understanding of what I have been doing is examining whether or not the people claiming you are scum have actual reasons they can substantiate from your posts in the thread.
So far TSO had ducked or failed to do that entirely.
What about that style is scummy?

If you claim I have been doing something else show me doing something else by pointing out where I did.


(2) And here, you're completely ignoring the possiblility that there are more scum teams and TSO and I are in different teams. Even if I'm town, noone else knows that for sure right now. Why did you do so?

Its the style?
Spoiler: spoiler
Ok that was bullshit what you just said. At no time have I indicated that I was sure you were town, because at no time have I been sure. I was however fairly sure TSO's read was not backed up by actual townie stuff, and so far it isn't.
@Aneninen: Please show me anywhere I was sure you were town?




Isn't it possible that
you
and TSO are in different scum teams? (Or, an another possibility, I must admit, I'm mis-reading TSO and you're setting up a lynch?)

Must admit i never really contemplated you guys being on different scum teams, but that would largely read like scum vs town (I think, but I have never played a multi(scum)ball game)
I expect I did it by not wanting to over complicate stuff, people have enough difficulty when I present two options
Aeneninen is (scum or town) but TSO is clearly scum (bussing/mislynching) because his case has no substance at all. It is not scum hunting based, he has produced no examples of scum indicative posts. Slam dunk?

Doing the same thing with 3 options could only be harder.

In post 1595, AxleGreaser wrote:and nope, I very purposefully did not do the leg work of examining those games ,that I pointed out to you,
but i do want to be sure that your reasons for voting him, when I examine them, have to make sense in light of that game.


Wait-oh. Did you say here that you hadn't examined my previous games?

oops I truth slipped. Since starting playing this game no I did not go back and
re read
your previous games. As I am sure I indicated I read your first game when it happened and tried to guess your (and everyone elses) alignment.
If anyone ever checks any of the reading claims I have made here and elsewhere in completed games and finds I was reading games on this forum in real time before my account creation date. Yes I was.
So no I have not yet gone back and re-examined, your previous games. That would happen if I have a good basis for concern in this one. So far as TSO has posted no substantiated reads of specific posts as being scummy, against you there has been no need.
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Post Post #1695 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:41 pm

Post by Garmr »

In post 1639, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1614, Garmr wrote:True if he is scum other scum may bust him but you have failed to even mention your thoughts on Annenne while pushing the fact constantly he may be town like post 442# post 996# while post 1062 attacks tso for why those post can't come from a town annienen. But yet you yourself don't mention what alignment he may be or thoughts on him why?


is not my post . Clarify (hint type 442 highlight it, press post button at the top of the editor. voila a link you can check)

post # not my post
while post yep that pone is mine. it is being responsive to TSO simply not even attempting to answer my question about Aneninen, TSOs supposed top scum read.)

because the person most likely to be scum was TSO.

because i was attempting to find put if TSO had a genuine read on Aneninen.

because if TSO is scum the read is faked about a scum mate or faked about a townie, thus Aneninens alignment is moot.

because if TSO is town his read is correct about scum and i should be on the wagon too, or wrong about Aneninen and simply mistaken.

At no point is Aneninens alignment relevant to the question I am seeking answers too.

So, I didnt comment on things that are not relevant to TSOs alignment...

because I wanted to work out TSOs alignment

So what your basically saying is your focusing on tso so that you don't have to try and read other players because tso is the most important thing k?

In post 1649, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1638, Garmr wrote:
In post 1628, Muffin wrote:
Why does this make an axlegreaser vote more palatable to you than an aneninen vote? It seems to me this ought to reinforce your scum read on aneninen the scum bro, should it not?


A axle lynch is more telling at this point. His the one that doesn't want to mention what he think of annienen his the one avoiding the subject. Look at the recent stuff his been posting that's not town.


So explain what about it is not town.
Explain what lynching me would tell you and why.


your kidding right? Here some examples not doing you own scum hunting,being secretive about your reads,when other people get into arguments you join in but passively being careful not say anything that would indicate you prefer one side of the other.

Lynch you because your not town would show interactions because once this subject was brought up people have been flocking to it and reacting in different ways. So basically just seeing the connections you made with people.

In post 1653, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1614, Garmr wrote:wtf your saying you basically saying you were interested in annienens wagon so You were trying to get me to do your meta reads for you with out EVEN bothering to do some yourself to make sure I wasn't misrepresenting him. That's scummy as fuck epically in a multi scum game (if it is multiscum). It shows you don't want to risk your neck in the night phase.


Bullshit.
I had read Anenenien games some time ago.
broadly speaking his play was in line with what i expected. (except I thought improved)

Your reads if they were based on ignorance of how he played in the past, would be very different to if you had seen how he played. Also

I removed that unknown by being sure you had seen his previous games.
This lets me get a better more accurate read on you.

If you are town the response is, thank you Axle for not just railroading me by ambushing me with stuff I(Garmr) didn't know.
Trying to get an accurate read by removing unknowns as i did is towny (tick),

If you are scum, then .... go on reacting really badly to finding out someone has been checking your veracity.
In post 688, AxleGreaser wrote:

@GARMR

A simple question.
have you read any of Aneninen's previous games?

While the earliest games are the oldest they do show best where his approach to play comes from. newbie 1513.

In post 1595, AxleGreaser wrote:
and nope,
I very purposefully did not do the leg work of examining those games ,that I pointed out to you,

but i do want to be sure that your reasons for voting him, when I examine them, have to make sense in light of that game.

One of these statements is not, not like the other one of these statements just doesn't belong. One of these statements looks like a real slip of truth can you guess.

In post 1657, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1614, Garmr wrote:You been passively defending annienen from me and tso with out saying a read all game. You can't deny that.


Bullshit. Watch me.

If (you are both town) and your or TSO's case holds water, then when I quiz you about the strength and basis of your reads. if they actually stand scrutiny, then
1 I vote your wagon. (BTW that how wagons you actually want pushed get lynched)
2 Other people can watch my examination and be persuaded
3 That I examine your reads and find out they are valid gives you good actual real townie points.

on the other hand if you are scum, me asking questions is something to worry about. Keep worrying.

Indeed as I have been so explicit, that I question the first the existence, then the accuracy and validity of TSOs reasons, then that as explained has little impact on whether you can lynch Aneninen if your reasons are valid.

Also often the best way to defend a towny, is to not defend them.
If Anenenien is town, the best way for me to defend him is to not defend him but let him show his towniness for himself.


However if the guy pursuing him is scum, then checking he has real reasons is a perfectly valid thing to do.

Thor (assuming PereV will flip scum) is entirely within his rights and good towny play to be looking on the supporters of his own wagon to look for which ones might be bussing.
Lynching scum today is good, lynching them today and tomorrow is better.


Ohhhh I get what your saying your not defending anne you were looking at if the wagon would get you into trouble and picking a target who to focus so you wouldn't have to give any reads. You got me your right your not defending annienen you didn't even care you were just looking for a tunnel.

ok got yah :wink:
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Post Post #1696 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:42 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1688, Muffin wrote:
In post 1687, AxleGreaser wrote:Would you like to ask me about something else at this time?

My read on the situation is similar to his, unless something changes one of Him or Thor seems like likely lynch.
For some reason inexplicable to me other people don't have a problem with TSOs play enough to vote him yet.

I guess this one is me dodging at this time.


Simple question. Is PereV town or scum?


Not simple for me ever.
You would have to add "more likely" as I don't have absolute knowledge.

Then if we were being picky everyone starts of at base chance of about 1 in 4.
After that as they do towny and scummy things they become more or less likely to be scum.
So wed need to say "more or less likely than random."

So yeah I am a complex man.
Actually it gets yet more complicated still, but that is going to wait also

and no I want to talk to PereV first, I have a question I want to ask, and rather clearly I want to ask them while he doesn't know the answers to your questions.

This is not you hitting nothing but net.
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Post Post #1697 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:38 pm

Post by Boonskiies »

prod dodge. oopsie.
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Post Post #1698 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:49 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1695, Garmr wrote:ok got yah


no you dont the stuff you made up bears little resemblance to anything I said
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User avatar
AxleGreaser
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3346
Joined: April 19, 2014
Location: (+10)

Post Post #1699 (ISO) » Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:59 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1691, T S O wrote:Axle literally keeps throwing shit no matter what I do,


The one thing you have not done yet is show the plenty of posts that show Aneninen to be scummy.
I asked for them a very long time ago. As you still have not provided them I conclude they do not exist.

You did post 3 Aneneinen posts in that you implied were scummy but did not actually state that they were.
in
In post 1240, T S O wrote:Ugh, I guess you've maybe got a point there.


you appeared to back down that those posts were scummy.

Since you have continued to scum read Aneninen and still vote him, and still have not shown a single set of posts that show Aneninen to be scummy at all.

@TSO
show me some of these plenty of scummy posts that Aneninen made.
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