NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #1650 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:59 pm

Post by Egg »

The Fonz wrote:I'd really like you to unpack this, because Muffin's PerV push feels like the best push I've seen in this game. It rubs me up the wrong way that you attack another player's vote on the wagon you're on in a way that explicitly calls the attacking player scum, but then bend over backwards to point out this doesn't weaken your vote on the wagon in any way.


Uhh. I ISO'd Muffin to see if I could find what I was seeing, but I can't remember and it doesn't even look bad now.

In post 1264, goodmorning wrote:
In post 1262, The Fonz wrote:
In post 1260, goodmorning wrote:
In post 1255, Thor665 wrote:Oh, look, none of my town reads have a wagon on them, fancy that.

Do they not have a wagon because you townread them, or do you townread them because they don't have a wagon, I wonder.

Do you really wonder? What would be the implications of either?

I don't wonder. I think it's likely to be a coincidence.
The implication of the former would be that Thor has a following, which is a mixed bag as far as the truth is concerned; he did pretty much start the Pere wagon, but does not currently have any real traction.
The implication of the latter would obviously be that Thor was taking the easy route. This isn't necessarily characteristic of Thor as either alignment.

Would you like to ask a more relevant question? Maybe, I dunno, participate a little?


Why even post 1260 then? Without the later explanation, it looks like a weak attack on Thor. (Unrelated: "Thot" is a funny typo. Good thing I caught it before posting). I see The Fonz explained things better than I can right after this post, so let me just say I agree with him. Also, you call it a "joke post" a little later. The joke isn't clear. Just sayin' Even if we call this a joke, you are still making other weak jabs at Thor and that's not like you. Example:
Goodmorning wrote:I literally cannot even begin to describe how hard this pinged

Why? What was so bad about his response to your apparent joke:
Thor wrote:Considering the only major wagon that exists is one that I built...what?
I mean, this doesn't even begin to make sense.
Though apparently you sorta agree it doesn't.


Why does this "ping so hard"?

The Fonz wrote:Right. So now you can tell us who that player was, what parts of your play were the 'reaction test', and what reactions you expected from scum vs those you expected from town. Get to it.

Goodmorning wrote:OH, SASSY EH?

FUCK OFF.


Lol, really? Seemed like a fair request. I was actually a little interested in the answer.

Up to Post 1292 on Page 52.
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Post Post #1651 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:09 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1645, Muffin wrote:
In post 1644, AxleGreaser wrote:Warning: Csareo vanished in a puff of mod logic we wont be talking about, so mainly ignore that it didn't happen

Why don't you think a player slot should be judged by all who played it?


I don't, that would be silly.

That was a heads up to anyone replacing in that that slot and the argument around it has stuff in it that is best to ignore due to the cause of him vanishing in puff of mod logic.

I will at some point talk about some things TSO did with Csaero. I do however fully expect that scum!TSO can easily (and plausibly) retreat into his former RAGE MO, and run up real close to the things that ended Csaero, and then I by the rules I play by wont be able to comment much. So making comments in that area is a self defeating place to look for scuminess even if it is there. I'll probably stick near the start of the Csaero thing.
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Post Post #1652 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:20 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

A new replacement is left with the responibility of their replace-out's actions.
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Post Post #1653 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:26 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1614, Garmr wrote:wtf your saying you basically saying you were interested in annienens wagon so You were trying to get me to do your meta reads for you with out EVEN bothering to do some yourself to make sure I wasn't misrepresenting him. That's scummy as fuck epically in a multi scum game (if it is multiscum). It shows you don't want to risk your neck in the night phase.


Bullshit.
I had read Anenenien games some time ago.
broadly speaking his play was in line with what i expected. (except I thought improved)

Your reads if they were based on ignorance of how he played in the past, would be very different to if you had seen how he played.

I removed that unknown by being sure you had seen his previous games.
This lets me get a better more accurate read on you.

If you are town the response is, thank you Axle for not just railroading me by ambushing me with stuff I(Garmr) didn't know.
Trying to get an accurate read by removing unknowns as i did is towny (tick),

If you are scum, then .... go on reacting really badly to finding out someone has been checking your veracity.
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Post Post #1654 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:35 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

In post 1612, Aneninen wrote:Flubber may be town. Eg. his 1493 seems to be genuine (and most of the 15xx posts too). Care to write more about 1520 and 1522?


Hm. Maybe not as complex a question as I thought.

But anyway. Muffin's vote doesn't suck because of .

Egg basically took his reads list and was like "your whole reads list is omgus. wtf."

Everyone else was like "Yaaaaay Thor." Especially Dave and Boonskies.

While I'm at it, I liked Fonz's reason for voting PV, but I didn't like that he really didn't dig into it. But I've kinda already gone into that enough.

----

I need an actual read on Axle.
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Post Post #1655 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:37 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

In post 1647, AxleGreaser wrote:
@PereV
Hi.

It is important you read the words that I say in this post and respond to this post.
Do not try and explain your case/points against Thor to me, I read that already.

Your are a towny, you are trying to work the game out
(
or pretending to
)
(
ooo spooky colours
)

What is your current belief in how likely this game is to be multiball?
Why?


Why are you bringing this up
again
. Any conclusions to be made from this discussion should have already been made.
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Post Post #1656 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:38 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

You could find a plethora of other scummy things PV has done like I've kinda done, and Egg and Muffin have actually done.
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Post Post #1657 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:42 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1614, Garmr wrote:You been passively defending annienen from me and tso with out saying a read all game. You can't deny that.


Bullshit. Watch me.

If (you are both town) and your or TSO's case holds water, then when I quiz you about the strength and basis of your reads. if they actually stand scrutiny, then
1 I vote your wagon. (BTW that how wagons you actually want pushed get lynched)
2 Other people can watch my examination and be persuaded
3 That I examine your reads and find out they are valid gives you good actual real townie points.

on the other hand if you are scum, me asking questions is something to worry about. Keep worrying.

Indeed as I have been so explicit, that I question the first the existence, then the accuracy and validity of TSOs reasons, then that as explained has little impact on whether you can lynch Aneninen if your reasons are valid.

Also often the best way to defend a towny, is to not defend them.
If Anenenien is town, the best way for me to defend him is to not defend him but let him show his towniness for himself.


However if the guy pursuing him is scum, then checking he has real reasons is a perfectly valid thing to do.

Thor (assuming PereV will flip scum) is entirely within his rights and good towny play to be looking on the supporters of his own wagon to look for which ones might be bussing.
Lynching scum today is good, lynching them today and tomorrow is better.
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Post Post #1658 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:45 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1655, Flubbernugget wrote:Why are you bringing this up again. Any conclusions to be made from this discussion should have already been made.


@Flubbertbugget is spelt like this @Flubbertbugget
@PereV is spelt differently.
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Post Post #1659 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:48 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

@Axle what is your current read on Anen?
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Post Post #1660 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:54 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

In post 1658, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1655, Flubbernugget wrote:Why are you bringing this up again. Any conclusions to be made from this discussion should have already been made.


@Flubbertbugget is spelt like this @Flubbertbugget
@PereV is spelt differently.


@QuestionDodge is spelled like @AxelGreaser

Why do you not have a read on this issue already?

-----

What is your read on Anen?
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Post Post #1661 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:40 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I'm pulling an SG here;

@Egg - it doesn't matter, and you continue to misunderstand me, and I don't care.

@Axle - my belief in statistical certainty...if you're going to hang that as the hook for Pere's case...then you better qualify why you think town Pere would take that as a valid scumtell. Because that is a commentary on a meta belief, and not something anyone would ever lie about or "slip" about. So...if you think that's what he meant - then what the heck is he smoking exactly?

@Pere - the answer to pretty much all your things is "look at my ISO" but I will address the bolded thing.

You claim I have "changed" my read.

Please describe the issue I have raised about you that I have, at any point, shied away from and no longer claimed it was part of my case?
Because I can think of two things I have mentioned.

1. You being superficial and lazy distanced - i.e. not scumhunting.
2. The multiball tell and the logic behind it.

First off, #2 is part and parcel of #1, it is just a clear way to show it.
Second off, I have never denied having both issues nor have I claimed to drop one. I will agree #1 was not well formed, and could be described as 'gut' to some level - but I never backed off that stance.
You are scum and trying to paint me as wavery in my attack in order to make it look weak.

The attack is not weak, and I haven't dropped or dodged off from anything I have said about you.
Feel free to prove me wrong.
Please.
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Post Post #1662 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:41 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1660, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 1658, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1655, Flubbernugget wrote:Why are you bringing this up again. Any conclusions to be made from this discussion should have already been made.


@Flubbertbugget is spelt like this @Flubbertbugget
@PereV is spelt differently.


@QuestionDodge is spelled like @AxelGreaser


No question dodge would be spelt differently, that last post was FUCK OFF, and if he flips scum but only then, I am going to want to know why (or at least wonder) you cut across me trying to find something out that clearly is flagged by me with colour and size as having meaning for me.
That even when i sometime explain it... you may think its derpy is not my problem,
For now move along...

As for conclusions from the discussion I fully expect to have to go back a rererad the entire bloody game once everybody has flipped in order to conclude everything i will from that discussion.
That tells me either I am way sillier or less experienced than you (because i cant see it), or perhaps I just think little deeper about some things or in a different way.

Why do you not have a read on this issue already?


I want better one, and my role PM didint tell me the answers?


-----
What is your read on Anen?


I have had several. (they evolved)
yeah sorry I dont read the world one dimensionally. (not a black and white thinker)

When I made the first post to Garmr to ensure that Garmr (and the other people on the wagon if they were paying attention, like a towny playing the game)
were aware of Aneninens meta, and especially his first games meta.

At that time I was of the opinion that pretty much every possible case against Aneninen that did not specifically address his meta (Aneninen is Aneninen) was not from my point of view any good.
Aneninen was not exhibiting any slam dunk tells. Thor's post is correct in that if he was on L-1
near deadline
, and this wagon on him had got there.
The lynching Anenin vs No lynch is a no brainer. The list of people I would not do that too however is rather small.

At this time I still most strongly suspect that TSOs case on Aneninen is total made up crap, and he knows it, and he knows he cant support it. Either he blusters me into going away,
someone chainsaws me off him, or somehow the thread ignores it.

I largely think (most plausible) his recent flip onto me, was mixture of OMGUS and surprise shock, that he had mistakenly thought I was an ally come to save him when he realised my play said TSO was scum and was mute on his alignment that came as shock.

Similarly at this time I give Garmr some time to come to terms with the apparently fact that "Garmr thinks to self: OMG, Axle also wants to check if Garmrs reasons for voting Aneninen are genuine."

Post shows Aneneine still has a leaning towards being dramatic.
Post could lead to people having PL leanings, and exhibits what appears to be a leaning towards dramatic grand conspiracies. (or something especially the need to give hint at the end)
I dont understand but at least he heard the message.

it will be intersting to see if this is lived up to
In post 1392, Aneninen wrote:I know I've left out plenty of things but for now, that's all. As always, I'm open to sensible communication.


I lean town on him, probably more than bit.
(As player in the future I expect him to be hard to read as scum. I don't think that time is yet. If he is he learned faster than I thought.)

I could be persuaded, but not by the kinds of reads and reasoning I have seen.
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Post Post #1663 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:48 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1656, Flubbernugget wrote:You could find a plethora of other scummy things PV has done like I've kinda done, and Egg and Muffin have actually done.


This is weird.

When I am town and I vote someone, I try to find someone who is scum.

That I can find 'scummy' things people did is not that important. <(this here in this post, is me finding something scum indicative you did.)> Yet still you might be town.

I find that scum players, especially the not so good ones, focus on finding scummy things someone did then ride that like there is no tomorrow.
What is missing is the trying to find out stuff part, scum (in single ball) don't have to find stuff out.
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Post Post #1664 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:01 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

In post 1663, AxleGreaser wrote:I find that scum players, especially the not so good ones, focus on finding scummy things someone did then ride that like there is no tomorrow.


This is exactly what you're doing when you bring up the multiball tell.
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Post Post #1665 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:06 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

In post 1662, AxleGreaser wrote:(not a black and white thinker)


"I don't know what the fuck a summary is."

Still trying to parse your Anen read because one of us here is really fucking dumb.
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Post Post #1666 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:12 pm

Post by reinoe »

Oh hey I got several pm's from people inviting me to play but you should also give someone a chance to WOTC me first. fyi.
Scum typically need to fabricate reasons for scumreads...

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Post Post #1667 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:13 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

So axel, you are aware of the pushes that have been made on Anen. Thats a start.
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Post Post #1668 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:15 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

In post 1662, AxleGreaser wrote:I largely think (most plausible) his recent flip onto me, 1612 was mixture of OMGUS and surprise shock, that he had mistakenly thought I was an ally come to save him when he realised my play said TSO was scum and was mute on his alignment that came as shock.


This is the closest thing to a read I could find in that wall.
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Post Post #1669 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:19 pm

Post by davesaz »

What is WOTC?
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Post Post #1670 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:19 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

Dammit Reinoe I wanted the 666 post.
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Post Post #1671 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:19 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1668, Flubbernugget wrote:
In post 1662, AxleGreaser wrote:I largely think (most plausible) his recent flip onto me, 1612 was mixture of OMGUS and surprise shock, that he had mistakenly thought I was an ally come to save him when he realised my play said TSO was scum and was mute on his alignment that came as shock.


This is the closest thing to a read I could find in that wall.



poppycock
In post 1662, AxleGreaser wrote:I lean town on him, probably more than bit.


As stated I don't have black and white thoughts.
I don't have reasonless thoughts.

you apparently dont read well
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Post Post #1672 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:21 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

pm the mod if you have an issue with renioe. Enough pm's and he won't be allowed to play.
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Post Post #1673 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:22 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1667, Flubbernugget wrote:So axel, you are aware of the pushes that have been made on Anen. Thats a start.


FUCK OFF.
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Post Post #1674 (ISO) » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:23 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

Yup. I don't read well. Told ya one of us was dumb.

The majority of your read states that other people are making bad pushes on him.
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