NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #1525 (ISO) » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:16 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

Scripten talk to me about your read on PV.
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Post Post #1526 (ISO) » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:17 pm

Post by goodmorning »

This game is the first time I encountered Csareo.
EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT
LA during normal working and sleeping hours EST

Get to know a very pleasant AM.
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Post Post #1527 (ISO) » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:32 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

In post 852, davesaz wrote:The reason I voted PeregrineV is that his post of reads was very comprehensive but mostly really thin. I believe I commented that I didn't see how there could be so many reads with so little information. When I combined that with the aspect that Thor pointed out (Pere seems to be fishing for a 2nd scum team) it pushed Pere firmly into scum territory for me.


I read this as "my vote on PV is shit so maybe sheeping thor will spray enough fabreeze on it for nobody to notice."
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Post Post #1528 (ISO) » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:37 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

In post 1367, Boonskiies wrote:VOTE: Pere

I like Thor. I'm gonna trust him.


Tell me what you like about Thor.
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Post Post #1529 (ISO) » Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:27 pm

Post by Flubbernugget »

In post 843, Thor665 wrote:Really, I think the primary issue is simply the written word. In person I say the same sort of stuff and people think I'm polite and to some degree funny. Same thing happened when we played audio mafia (except for the scum players). I think my vocal tone is different from what people presume it to be.

I should try doing an alt where I insist on posting readings of every post I make. I wonder what that would do to how I'm reacted to...


OT post because I didn't want to bring this up outside of the tread because of ongoing game rules and such but I reeeeeeealy wanna see you play this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p6284925
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Post Post #1530 (ISO) » Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:44 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1518, T S O wrote:Okay, Axle, maybe if you keep on completely ignoring what I'm saying, that'll get people to think you're right.

Hint: that's sarcasm.



A towny providing the reasons for their reads is not a quid pro quo thing. You are not prepared to because you are not town. I know you are not town because you are not prepared to.

You have asked me to give (an unspecified number of other reads on other players), not all players posts walls of reads, I am one of those.

Earlier way back at when i posted something to Garmr about his read on Aneninen... I was hunting you as scum.
I was making sure it was in the thread that reading Aneninens previous games was a good idea.
If you were a legitimate towny with a legitimate read, you probably would have made sure you looked at that game too.

If anyone had asked me at that time for list of reads i most certainly would have not told them about my suspicions of you.
That needed time to play out, for me to seek confirming evidence.

Likewise at this time I am not going to be telling you whatever it is that I may or may not be half way through figuring out.

Now, if you want to, you try and explain what is anti town about that...
Spoiler: meta
You claim you vote park so that all okey dokey and not scummy. I dont hand out all my reads. On this occasion at this time in this game I am handing out ever fewer than usual, the situation is also different.


Meanwhile I will continue to point out how antitown it is for you to continue to not either explain you vote on Aneninen or push the wagon you are voting.

I believe you are scum, but with the approach to play you currently have, then for what I believe are similar reasons to Thors the risk to town from you dying, currently seems minimal.
While you apparently can play this game when you want to, today no matter what PM you got you are not playing on the same town team that I am.
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Post Post #1531 (ISO) » Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:46 pm

Post by Nero Cain »

I should probs start posting and jazz, so lets do that tomorrow.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #1532 (ISO) » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:58 pm

Post by T S O »

In post 1526, goodmorning wrote:This game is the first time I encountered Csareo.


Did you think he was town?
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #1533 (ISO) » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:01 pm

Post by T S O »

Jesus, Pere vs Thor is incredibly fucking boring.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #1534 (ISO) » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:13 pm

Post by Garmr »

@Axle do you have any scum reads other than tso? goodevening brought this up this question in 1521 and it looks like you might of missed it.
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Post Post #1535 (ISO) » Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:38 pm

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1534, Garmr wrote:@Axle do you have any scum reads other than tso? goodevening brought this up this question in 1521 and it looks like you might of missed it.


Didnt miss it have been considering how or what to reply, as there are often things I intend not to say at this time.
Also been down the hospital holding a sick relatives hand as they have dementia and need to know they are among friends. So my post times & availability are a bit screwy.

The TLDR answer is not lot.
There may be some minor strength reads in the pipe or they may fall out as nothing. (one I know is lame, but its fun and I didnt start it.)

I did read Scripten as scum before my VLA, but as indicated for me having spent two days on the beach the thread seemed to have really weird vibe when i got back.
I just reread it again and that vibe has gone (I think), so I think it was the transition from lying in the sun to reading potential lies.

However his posts since my VLA read townier than the early ones.

So pretty much the only wagon i really want to drive at the moment is TSO.
I only need to find one person I think is scum D1 and preflip associations are bad.

If TSO starts being towny... a lot.. then i will find another or join a major one.
if at the end of the day, there is a need to consolidate, then i believe have original scum hunting content for that still in the cupboard or already on the table.

As a towny.
I do need to participate in the thread where I deem it appropriate so as to maximise the information available from a D1 lynch. I have done that.
I do not feel the need to point fingers at which lynch bait players(lurkers weak players) I feel are the most plausible scum candidates.

If scum have player they want to try and save, that is being run up, then they can guess for themselves what is plausible.
My best guess is TSO thought Aneninen was a plausible mislynch that would be easy to run up or hide on, as he is 'bad' according to TSO.
Unfortunately for him, I have read Aneninen games (perhaps more than one (dont recall at this time))
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Post Post #1536 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:01 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1521, goodmorning wrote:@Axle: Who do you find scummy other than TSO?


are you looking explicitly for my secondary reads, or are you looking for evidence I am actually playing the game.

it is pretty much always true that: Every read I want to put in the thread is in thread.

"evidence I am actually playing the game." is in the thread.
If you are having difficulty finding that, I will point out what are the shinier bits for me.

Here is one of my favourites.

In post 812, AxleGreaser wrote:He indicated a statistical based belief that many games were not multiball.
The fact that he was wrong, in that IMO enough games have been multiball to make your statement plausibly based on stats, does not make him scum as being wrong or bad or mistaken is not the same as scum.


I wanted to know what Thor would do with that. It is IMO serious logical problem with Thors argument.
OMG Axle claimed Thor is scum
. No such luck, Thor does stuff like that all the time as town and I presume as scum although I think I have mainly read Thor town games, Thor is Thor.
But what I like about it, is here is Fonz using that concept but backward to poke PereV with it.
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Post Post #1537 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:52 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

So you have no reads or attempts to make other reads, and are perfectly fine with that?
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Post Post #1538 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:29 am

Post by Thor665 »

I seem to have missed posts but not a lot of action.
More people need to get their votes in play on meaningful wagons.

Flubber's explanation of posts I should have called out Pere for is a mix of things I don't even find scummy, and things I have never used as scumtells ever. Whoop-dee-doo.
I'm also left with a cold feeling that he talked about my case in a way that showed he didn't understand it, had it explained to him again, and didn't address that - even if just to claim I'm misrepresenting what I'm arguing and his interpretation is correct.

@Flubber - address my clarified case now, pl0x. Especially since you're basing your case off a case I haven't and never did make. That would be sexy. Thanks.
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Post Post #1539 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:48 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1537, Flubbernugget wrote:So you have no reads or attempts to make other reads, and are perfectly fine with that?


didnt say that
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Post Post #1540 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:29 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1493, Flubbernugget wrote:@Fonz: I must keep missing it; which post does Pergerine admit Thor wouldn't slip?


Iso pereV search slip yields...
In post 611, PeregrineV wrote:However, I don't think it is in your nature to "slip", nor to be so bold nor so brazen about possibly having a scumrole
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Post Post #1541 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:57 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

@thor: your case is sound and valid as far as I can tell but it's beating the rotting remains of a dead horse and cousing apathy. If you don't see any other scumtells in him (or opportunities to dig for additional scumtells) what about this particular instance do you think could in be causing something worth going on about for this long?

@axle: okay I misread your post. But I don't understand the hesitation to list other scum reads.
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Post Post #1542 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:03 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1541, Flubbernugget wrote:@thor: your case is sound and valid as far as I can tell but it's beating the rotting remains of a dead horse and cousing apathy. If you don't see any other scumtells in him (or opportunities to dig for additional scumtells) what about this particular instance do you think could in be causing something worth going on about for this long?

Ummm;

1. Because it is not causing apathy - there was apathy before I started this case and failure to create any wagons prior to it as well.
2. It cured apathy by giving us an actual wagon.
3. If I catch scum being scummy - I point that out. Whether or not you like the case does nothing to adjust that it is a valid and self-contained case.
4. I have pointed out other issues with Pere, that doesn't change what the biggest issue is.
5. Also, in case you missed it, he is playing super evasive since I started in on this - and I have been after him 100% when he does pop through, so complaining that I'm not digging is not being aware of the gamestate and annoying to me.
6. You have failed to suggest why my case isn't good enough even while now admitting it is sound and valid... :neutral: .
7. I think it's worth going after because it's a very good case and Pere is acting sketchy as regards it.
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Post Post #1543 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:05 am

Post by Thor665 »

Ooooh, and I almost forgot;

8. Your case is based around the idea "we need a counter to Pere wagon, and Thor should have had a wagon put upon him...for reasons!"

Did you fail to note what page my Pere wagon started on?
Did you fail to note that there was literally no other wagon before or since?
Yet you think the Pere wagon caused apathy even though your case could apply to anyone who started a wagon...yet there is no one else it applies to besides me?
Yeah.
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Post Post #1544 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:15 am

Post by Scripten »

In post 1525, Flubbernugget wrote:Scripten talk to me about your read on PV.


What would you like to talk about? I've already given pretty much all the thoughts I can on it. Just ISO me, the posts aren't that far up.

I find your () and () inconsistent. Most I can make of it is that 1541 invalidates 1361. Am I right?
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Post Post #1545 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:52 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

Okay. So I ISO'd you, and did a CTRL+F on "pere."

This is what I found that isn't in regards to multiball.

In post 388, Thor665 wrote:

In post 385, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 36, Thor665 wrote:I now support Csaro's lynch also.

Scripten's drunk post is also a policy lynch.

People should vote one or the other, my RVS stage is over.

I found Csaro's post refreshingly direct. What about them makes you want to lynch him?

Since when have drunk posts been a policy lynch?

1. I found it annoying that he was taking derp fake claims serious and extending the derp fake claim discussion.
2. Since always, for me.

Your post here is shockingly empty.


Vague. Though this is very early in the game so not necessarily poor play.

In post 435, Thor665 wrote:Could you vote Pere instead? You seemed to paint him with the same brush, and at least I know he's better than that. From what some people have said 'useless as Matthew McConaughey's shirts' is somewhat par for the course for Cho.
Request him to a Vig pool and vote Pere?


Vague.
In post 447, Thor665 wrote:I want to lynch Pere - get with the program.


Empty.

In post 449, Thor665 wrote:
In post 439, Izariael wrote:Sure, but I haven't posted my reads on every one of the other 20 players yet. Doesn't mean I don't have reads on such players though. I still found Scripten's "here are some minor reads - look I'm participating" to be the scummiest read I have.

Your reads are not very impressive to me then.
Want to sheep me on Pere? Maybe he's alternate scum team to you, yeah?


Empty.


In post 477, Thor665 wrote:
In post 463, T S O wrote:Does anyone want to explain why Pere's actually scum, without attached mindless rhetoric? I don't get it/I'm too lazy to read it.

For lack of participation, awkward sheeping, and general lack of buying into the game.

Why do you think he's not scum?


Vague.

In post 559, Thor665 wrote:@Everyone - Pere claimed scum. I caught him. You may sheep me now.


Empty.


In post 835, Thor665 wrote:I think Pere is scum via play in thread, his lack of presence in the neighborhood means nothing really as he was checked out of the game for days after that anyway.


Vague.

In post 848, Thor665 wrote:Have you ever played with Pere prior to this? I feel like you must have.

He is not only doing a slow start (which I might buy as town him) but is pairing it with sloppy reads and not really looking over the thread (note how he agreed that...whoever that was, Muffin?, who had earlier brought up multiball was scum after it was pointed out. But if he had actually read and also actually thought that was an issue (as shown by his reaction to me) he would have mentioned it.

If he had openly stated he was skimming/sipping stuff - no worries.
But he didn't, he chose to present like he read.
He was probably lying about that.
Why do you think town Pere would do that?


Vague.
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Post Post #1546 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:55 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

In post 1542, Thor665 wrote:6. You have failed to suggest why my case isn't good enough even while now admitting it is sound and valid... .


Because people make mistakes as town. So you could very well be playing on a pride issue to paint him as scum over an issue that is a lot smaller than it's being made out to be.
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Post Post #1547 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:58 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

In post 1542, Thor665 wrote:5. Also, in case you missed it, he is playing super evasive since I started in on this - and I have been after him 100% when he does pop through, so complaining that I'm not digging is not being aware of the gamestate and annoying to me.


This should have been with the other quotes I found. And again, beating a dead horse causes apathy. So now it's a matter of evading as scum or evading a Thor beatdown.
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Post Post #1548 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:00 am

Post by Thor665 »

Well, a couple of those are actually quite explicit and not vague at all.
And I don't see the point you're trying to make regardless.

6. If he made a mistake he had plenty of time to at least discuss why he believed in that mistake. Instead he got dodgy - was that also a mistake on his part?

5. Which do you think is the more likely response from a town Pere who thinks he's right? How about from a scum Pere that doesn't?
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Post Post #1549 (ISO) » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:07 am

Post by Flubbernugget »

In post 1544, Scripten wrote:
In post 1525, Flubbernugget wrote:Scripten talk to me about your read on PV.


What would you like to talk about? I've already given pretty much all the thoughts I can on it. Just ISO me, the posts aren't that far up.

I find your () and () inconsistent. Most I can make of it is that 1541 invalidates 1361. Am I right?


What makes him more scummy than the other players you are taking issue with?

And it's one small issue blown out of proportion. The last back and forth I saw town Thor get into covered a wide range of topics. They all accumulated into his case.
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