Mini 461 "24" Game Over. Roll Credits

[Guardian]

I also haven't received a role yet. Kidding? I'm a bit confused. I assume this happens after we elect the director?

Alive(12/12)

Off the Mark

CrashTextDummie

ChannelDelibird

Albert B. Rampage

Guardian

Spambot

Yosarian2
YogurtBandit
Xdaamno

Eyceking

Korran

UltimaAvalon

These are the people I know/would like to see as director.

I think it will probably come down to CdB or Yos, but I was thinking, and maybe there is really some merit to this - assigning an enthusiastic but newer and maybe easier to read player would be better? If CdB or Yos gets assigned "mafia" roles, I could see them really screwing us over. So, I'll start off with

vote: YogurtBandit

<3. Ultima, you were my second choice, all those great games in #mafia .

What criteria should we really be using to select the director?

[Guardian]

Ok, so I read everything very carefully, and . I thought Pooky was just giving a sample vanilla PM there not saying that...

One thing that I think is definitely a good idea, that no one pointed out yet , is that while we do want 3 guys that can decipher the crypto, the director can unassign and reassign positions at any time!!! So we only need the 3 one hour guys for one hour! So, we could have like 4 liasons doing their jobs, and then reassign 3 of them to crypto when their jobs and the person who gets the crypto's jobs are finished!

We can have them doing other roles and reassign them to crypto when the crypro role is needed. A dynamic director who assigns and reassigns roles often will be needed, also one who we can for sure trust as being non scum, imo. I don't see how having a director as scum is semi safe .

Also, Pooky, can people have more than one position at a time? If so, why would a director not assign himself to some of the roles? I am assuming that each person can only fill one position.

Also, no one really answered my thoughts about how having an easier to read and more likely to work with the town director is safer. I see myself, YB, UA, and possibly some other people as more likely to do that than Ctd, Yos, and Cdb.

Spambot's post was indeed odd.

[Guardian]

I don't think newer players are more likely to work with town, just easier to read if they slip up as scum. My sentence was confusing.

I do agree that we need someone competent as director, but again, I greatly fear us getting a very competent scum director who with strategic role assignments wins the game for the scum.

Also, what roles look like they are most likely kill targets? Crypto? Director? Whatever the case is, we don't want to put experienced people there, as it would give scum even more incentive to kill off better town players.

Yos, yes I know 1 hour = 3 life days. Pooky said this in the queue, I got it...
We can start with less crypto because we will probably be getting less crypto info in the beginning; we could have two extra liaisons doing tasks for the first few hours and then switch them to crypto.

And Yos, we may disagree on who is easy to read/not, but what in and of itself is fishy about putting someone easy to read as director and lynching them if they seem scummy? We definitely don't want a scum director, so...

[Guardian]

The bodyguard bit is good protown strategy. Yogurt, I will re-read in detail later, but right now it seems to me that opposing that strategy is fishy :\.

unvote vote: Guardian

. I don't want Yogurt to be director if he doesn't want to be / doesn't think he'd do a good job, and I think being director would be awesome, I think I would be very competent at it, and I think that it would be one of the most fun experiences playing mafia ever. And I'm pro-town .

We definitely don't want a director who doesn't want to be director; when you post after this post, say if you would be willing/interested to be director or not, that will narrow down the field and give us some info to go on, too.

[Guardian]

Yos, you seem scummy, trying to post a lot and throw around a lot of good ideas to get the nomination. If you are town, though I would like to be director myself, I would be happy with you being director.

Are you town, Yos?

[Guardian]

And the throwing a lot of good ideas around in and of itself isn't scummy, but you are obviously campaigning for director; anyone who really wants to be director looks scummy to me; I look scummy to me, because director is a really important role, and scum would love to get it for themselves.

[Guardian]

Not saying I don't agree with you, but... you're accusing Yos

and yourself

of being scum? You've both made the exact same 'mistake', for want of a better word.

Pushing to be director is scummy. So even though I am not scum, I am acting scummy by wanting to be director. Does that make sense? It's as if I was lurking, lurking can look scummy, and even though I know I am not scum, I can acknowledge that my behavior looks scummy.

Yos said he was town.

He wouldn't lie to me.

Yos, I actually would like to see those examples where you tried to become director as pro town. Doesn't mean you are town here, but it makes it more plausible.

[Guardian]

It's everything to do with wanting to be director. That's why I said Yos and I looked scummy. That's what you said seemed odd. Your not backing up your statement or responding to my explanation is fishy!

[Guardian]

Don't question Yos's ball size.

I

've

G

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M

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E

ye(s)

O

n

Y

ou.

[Guardian]

Guardian, OMGUS is baaaad

It's just all your posts seem to be atleast slightly fishy, but I can't really pin it on anything.

Is logic also bad? Because my comments were not just OMGUS, I really think you are backtracking here by saying that it has nothing to do with being director when the whole logic line had everything to do with campaigning to be director.

[Guardian]

because I trust myself more then someone else, if that makes any sense. I can show you some examples if you want.

Hehe, I definitely identify with you on the first part; I know I am pro town, I only can suspect to a certain degree of confidence that the rest of you are pro town.

The second part, you gave me one example, and no links. I would appreciate more.

Also,

F

or

T

he

R

ecord, we should not "hammer" a director into being director before the week ends if that will start day one; with such a quick paced game we want to take all this pregame time we can to get reads on people and decide what the optimal role assignment is.


Right now I think a good starting setup would be:
1x Director
1x Deputy Director
2x Crypto Analysists
2x Field Agent
1x Counterintelligence Agent
4x Liasons
1x SIA

With the plan to quickly pull Liasons out and put them into crypto and SIA positions as needed. One good strategy I think we should do is have the White house Liason immediately put pressure on whatever other agency seems most useful; this will be invaluable when we are time crunched near the end of the game. One field agent should definitely be guarding the Counterintelligence Agent at all times, he is our cop and seems like a main scum target. That field agent could be the most scummy person in our view, because if he doesn't do as asked and guard the C-I-A, and the C-I-A dies, the field agent is almost assuredly scum. C-I-A and Crypto, along with director and deputy director, seem to be the most high profile roles and likely to be targeted for scum killings.

Cop information and Crypto information should not be publicly revealed, especially like having the cop say who he is investigating. Once the investigation comes in, maybe, but otherwise it just gives the scum a better chance of killing someone. Ditto with SIA positions; they should not reveal who they are targeting unless they get useful information, as scum have no incentive to kill SIA agents monitoring townies, but every incentive to kill SIA agents monitoring scum.

Those are my thoughts for now...

[Guardian]

We're only allowed two SIA's, and we might want to get liaison tasks done early in the game before we have a good idea of who we find to be the most suspicious.

If there aren't four liaison tasks that we want done, then moving one liaison to an SIA would be fine.

[Guardian]

Re-looking it over:

FBI seems crucial to have someone there all game, as if nothing else the FBI also has a cop functionality.

The White house is needed at least for four hours to speed up any FBI (or other agency) movement for 4 to 3 hours, and also has important things we can request to help us bargain with terrorists.

NSA seems somewhat important, just because of the recon I am sure that that liaison will get during the game.

CIA seems less important for near the beginning of the game.
Ditto with the State department.

So, at first glance, I would be OK with 3 liaisons, and two SIAs, as the State and CIA seem like they are more important for later in the game.

[Guardian]

Good choice, I won't let you down sir .

Telling us why you chose me among all the people you don't know would help us understand you and know whether we can trust you better, though.

[Guardian]

The former may seem possible, but I assure you that it is not true. I just emanate "good leader" .

[Guardian]

You have never explained your suspicion of me, just stating that "IGMEOY" for no reason.

Is Yos your scum partner and you want him elected?
And OMGUS for getting someone to unvote me :'(.

[Guardian]

Telling us why you chose me among all the people you don't know would help us understand you and know whether we can trust you better, though.

Am I correct in assuming that you think he is town?

I get the impression that he is new town. I see how it looks like he is new scum with the obvious connection he made to me, and I wanted him to explain his reasoning behind it as to not discredit either of us.

Also, I've got a million-dollar question for you:
Do you want to be Director because it sounds like the most fun role or because you honestly think you'd be the best man for the job?

I think I would be better than most of the players in the game for the job and not much worse than the few remaining, and I know for sure that I am town, whereas I do not have a pro town feeling from any of the players that I think might do a better job than I. I think it would be fun, for sure, but I think I would do a good job and that it would be good for the town if I was elected.

[Guardian]

Meh. I can understand how the connections I am getting between YB and Korran may looks scummy from the outside. I am town though, and I think I would do a good job as director, and from the way they have acted towards me, I am pretty sure YB and Korran are town as well.

Even if I am not elected, I really think YB and Korran are good choices for counterintelligence/FBI liaison, or cryptography experts, because I don't see the way they acted towards me making sense if they are scum. I think that at most one of them is scum, and likely neither of them. No offense you two, I am not sure you would be cut out for the director role, but I think you are likely innocents and would be great to have as cops or crypto.

I want to hear more from CDB, I got really good vibes from just his first post (or two?), better vibes than I am getting from Yos OR Ctd, to be honest, for all their contributions. Xdaamo I am unsure about.

[Guardian]

Well, the thing is, other than your comments about me, I find your reasoning OK. But it is harder for me to see why you decide to be so skeptical of me specifically, and be so skeptical and when asked say "Well... it's really just IGMEOY."

[Guardian]

Meh, if Yos is town, Yos is a great choice. Ditto with CTD. I am just not sure about either of them .

[Guardian]

I'm more sure of CTD.

Anyway, take all votes off guardian for the time being

That includes you, Korran. Forgot if your vote is still on him or not.

I like how you're directing the town, especially Korran, who is new. .

[Guardian]

:\ This game is kinda hosed. Out of me, YB, and Korran, I am sure that no more than 1 is scum, and am almost sure that none is scum. Yet we seem to be the most suspected.

Out of Xdaamno, CTD, and Yos, I suspect that 1 or more is scum, yet somehow they seem to be in the clear. Xdaamno I get the most town read on, but I really dislike how his whole game contributions have been "No, Guardian bad!"

If push came to shove, I'd rather have Yos as director than CTD.

[Guardian]

:\ This game is kinda hosed. Out of me, YB, and Korran, I am sure that no more than 1 is scum, and am almost sure that none is scum. Yet we seem to be the most suspected.

Out of Xdaamno, CTD, and Yos, I suspect that 1 or more is scum, yet somehow they seem to be in the clear. Xdaamno I get the most town read on, but I really dislike how his whole game contributions have been "No, Guardian bad!"

If push came to shove, I'd rather have Yos as director than CTD.

Why? And I ask not only in regard of the last part, I'd like you to explain all of it. Did you even consider that there are 3 people we haven't even heard of when you speculated on those scum numbers?

I know I am town. I think I have a good read on YB and am getting a lot of flak for that in other games, but I stand by my read and I think he is pro town here. I think Korran is very new, and I think that his actions regarding me, and then even by letting Xdaamno direct him, are very new town like.

I am not as confident as my scum speculations as I am on my town speculations, but I just get bad vibes from all three of you, you the most CTD. I would need to re-read to see if these feelings are justified or if they are just feelings.

The three lurkers could be scum. They could be town. I don't know how many scum there are, not did I make speculations about scum numbers. What I am saying is of the frequent posters, I think CTD Yos and Xdaamno are more likely to be a part of the scum group.

Mod - please read this

:
There are 3 people who have not posted yet at all. I want all of them to have at least 1 post in before the pre-game is over, or else have them replaced. We may not even be able to reach a majority in this directorial election without them. I strongly suggest extending the deadline under these circumstances.

QFT.

Here are a couple of question I think everyone should answer, in order to give the Director (whoever that may be) an idea of where everyone stands:

These questions are a good start, and a great idea. I am responding to them in terms of what is important and the beginning of the game, because I feel having more liaisons will be more important later. I will try and think of more questions later, this asking questions for everyone to answer is a great idea to start discussion and leave a paper trail.

1. What do you think the most important role (besides Director) is?

Important is a tricky word, and without qualifying it I don't feel I can answer that question properly. Roles that are very important to have pro-town players in are Crypto agents. Crypto agents who lie will lose us the game. Roles that are very important to have competent players that are probably pro town in are the counterintelligence agent and the FBI liaison, and to a lesser extent the SIAs because they all have to make important independent decisions of who to investigate. And obviously, the deputy director should be the second best choice for director, as they may have to take over at any time.

2. Which player would you like to see in that position?

Crypro - YogurtBandit and Korran. I am pretty sure they are town. FBI, CIA, SIA: I would like CDB, Yos, CTD, (Me) because if they are town they will help the town out in those positions.

3. Which player do you trust least?

I am not sure. I have a healthy level of suspicion on everyone besides myself and YB and Korran. CTD I am most suspicious of, I guess, but I do not have particularly good reason for those suspicions, and this last post of his strikes me as helpful to the town.

4. What role, if any, would you like assigned to that player?

I think we have to assign every player to a role at all times. Players we think are town but not the best at rooting out scum are crypto. Players who are probably town and probably good at guessing who to investigate go to those roles. The best and brightest and most pro-town are directors. Those we think are scum are field agents, and we assign them to bodyguard the crypto or the director or whoever we think are pro town. If the person they are supposed to be protecting dies, we lynch them. Everyone who doesn't fall in the above categories fills in the gaps, but you want liaisons as people you can probably trust, because I think we will get valuable intel from those agencies.

I think I would be a great director, or deputy, or FBI agent. I could do one of the other laision positions, or SIA or CIA too. The first three jobs are my preferences, but anything besides field agent and crypto would be fine with me - those two jobs would be a waste of my ability/initiative.

I find it very odd Xdaamno trusts me the least and wants me as a liaison position. Liaisons who fail to do their assigned tasks or fail to report information they receive from the agency as very dangerous.


Those are my thoughts as of now....

[Guardian]

Because I care VC:

Yos2: Cdb, Eyceking
CTD: CTD, Xdaamno
Guardian: Guardian, YB

I believe the above is correct.

Not voting:

Off the Mark
Albert
Spambot
Korran
UltimaAvalon
Yosarian2

Not

posting

:

Off the Mark
Albert
UltimaAvalon

Bullied off voting me by Xdaamno because Xdaamno "has his eye on me":

Korran



Yos2, that last bit about me being deputy director can be read two very different ways. More on that tomorrow.

[Guardian]

I lack the time needed to adequately explain how I feel about Yos right now, re: his thoughts about making me deputy.

If he is town, then it is a good idea, it shows healthy suspicion of me, and acknowledges that I have had some good thoughts about how to run the director position. It does "waste" an investigation on me, as my idiocy in skimming the first post shows me to be vanilla, but I suppose a clever scum could fake such a thing or whatnot.

If Yos is scum, however, he is very unlikely to be killed, and putting me in the deputy director position parks an enthusiastic and capable player into a position in which they do basically nothing - and scum Yos would be very unlikely to die all game - so I would basically have no role.

I still think I am the best candidate for director as I am pro town and I am unsure about Yos and CTD; I feel that much of the reason suspicion was thrown on me is for Xdaamno's

flimsy reasons

reasonless IGMEOY.

Anyways, Yos if you do get director, I think I would be well suited to be FBI liaison, or maybe White house liaison. I would not want to be in the deputy position until we got more of a pro-town read on

you

.

Vote for me !

I'm out for now.

[Guardian]

There are 3 vanilla-lurkers according to that Albert; UltimaAvalon is still AWOL.

I was wondering why the whole town seemed scummy...

[Guardian]

Albert, you think Yos is pro town? If so, I am happy to have him as director instead of me. Especially because I will have limited access July1-8, beach >.<. Every internet chance I get there I will check this game though, and I will bring a hard copy of it so far with me.

If Yos is scum, then I still would be happy to be director. If Yos is town though, I agree he would do a good job.

[Guardian]

If he is town...

[Guardian]

I buy that Albert and OTM are town. Albert, do you feel up for director? I would be OK with it ending up being you.

[Guardian]

This is pretty sweet, I'm almost certain that YB, Korran, Albert, and OTM are town. This game should end up with a win >_>. And me, fwiw.

Yos would do a damn good job if he is town. I will do a good job too. Albert might do a good job, and is definitely town.

[Guardian]

This seems kind of unfair for the scum. Poor scum .

[Guardian]

If we're not going to make me director, which it seems momentum has faded from, maybe we should make Albert director? In my eyes, the six I mentioned are very likely town, but I can see how the town wouldn't trust Korran, YB, and me.

UA, Albert, and OTM seem like they've got to be town to me though. Albert I think would do well as director, why not make someone we are almost sure is town director?

[Guardian]

Xdaamno, I can see why you are usually lynched first.

If we elect Yos as director, UA, Albert, And OTM = great for crypto. I buy their not getting the pm. If I wasn't randomly skimming the forum, that would have happened to me too. CTD = decent as Counterinteligence, as I think it would be hard to falsify the code. CTD might be scum, but if he doesn't target scummy candidates, and get real results, then that will show. I want Xdaamno as a bodyguard on the most important crypto. Honestly, he seems maybe second most scummy and definitely the least helpful to me.

Like I said, I also think Korran and YB would be great for crypto. Obviously the five I mentioned can't all be crypto, some being liaisons to NSA or White House would make sense.

Yos, I still feel I would be good as FBI. I would assume that if I had someone arrested then that would show up - I can't do that and get away with it. At FBI, I would use the cop role only, because I don't trust Yos or CTD, but if they are town I want them confirmed and running the show. Me being deputy director seems like a waste since I wouldn't really be doing anything. I guess I would be OK with it though. Albert seems like a good choice as deputy, as he is likely town and seems like he would do a good job as director.

I think people like CDB Spambot or Eyceking, who I haven't gotten great reads on, should be in SIA, since that is a useful job but one that is hard to falsify.

Whoever is assigned to the white house's first move HAS to be to speed up the FBI. The FBI is the most crucial outside agency, imo, and having them go 25% faster is critical. NSA I just assume we will get good intel from; I think one of UA Albert or UA would be good there since that will help us track down Jack.

Really, we want town players as liasons almost as much as crypto; false info or lack of info from the agencies will kill us. With Yos as director, I would recommend something like this:

Director: Yos
Deputy: Albert
CIA: CTD
SIA: Eyceking
SIA: ChanelDelBird
Crypto: OffTheMark
Crypto: Korran
Field Agent/Bodyguard on OTM: Xdaamno
Field Agent/On Call/Switchable: Spambot
White House: YB/UA (whichever is less trusted)
FBI: Guardian (I don't think I could get away with shenanigans here if scum, I am pro town, and I want to dig into the histories of certain players)
NSA: UltimaAvalon (whichever is more trusted)



For the record, I really really really question this "elect Yos as director even when we have three very very likely townies" groupthink. I am town, and I would like to be director, so electing me I assure you is not a bad play, but I'm sure some would disagree with me here. However, Albert (of the "confirmed" townies) seems like a really really good choice for director. Having a pro-town director is crucial. Yos would then be good in CIA or SIA or something, and someone in an investigative role could clear him and then have him moved to deputy.

My thoughts.

[Guardian]

Yos. Firstly, I am town, besides being suspicious of you and CTD, I don't really see what warrants me being more scummy than other players.

YB and Korran chose to associate with me. Xdaamno has been pushing suspicion on me all game. I have no control over either of those things.

On the other hand, I have contributed loads strategy wise, have made my suspicions and suspicions of who I think is town clear, and have contributed thoughtfully and meaningfull the whole game. I am a PM-less vanilla, I am a townie, and I really don't like how you are sweating me being in a cop position. You admit I couldn't really harm the game other than false cop results which I would be punished for, and you still don't want me there?? Would you be more comfortable with me as CIA and CTD as FBI(I use CIA as short for counterintelligence agent, FYI)?

I think SIA's and the CIA are great for players who are good but under suspicion; they don't get results,

they get codes that go to crypto

. A scum CIA or SIA can't really do much bad, because all they get are codes the go to cryptos. We really need pro town people in director, the three crypto roles, and the liaisons.

I still think I would be a good director. I would utilize the office PM thing a lot and keep a detailed list of all the info we have, and I would share that with my deputy. That way, there would always be someone who had a full idea of what was going on in the game, even when we didn't want the cryptos to necesarily make their results public.

CTD, I take your points into consideration about Albert. I think he might do a good job, but UA looks equally town to me and I think also might do a good job.

I shify my focus: We should have

Yos, me, or UltimaAvalon

as the first director, it seems.


Just fyi, as director:

Director: Guardian
Deputy: UltimaAvalon / Yos once Yos is cleared
CIA: CTD
SIA: ChanelDelBird
SIA: Eyceking
Crypto: OffTheMark
Crypto: Korran
Field Agent/BodyGuard on OTM: Xdaamno
Field Agen/On Call/Switchable: Spambot
White House:YB
FBI:Yos/UA if Yos gets cleared
NSA:Albert

Many of these I definitely would want imput on; I feel good about CTD as CIA, CDB as SIA, OTM as Crypto, and Xdaamno as a bodyguard, though.

[Guardian]

Well, your reason for disagreeing with it does cripple it as being a good setup, that is for sure. . *cough* hypocrisy *cough*

And I did give reasons for why I think people would be good in each position. Read, please.

I think the setup itself is good because the catch all scum plan is the best win condition to go for, and I think we should heavily focus on that with just a few laisions to keep our options open. We need two crypto minumum, though I would be welcome to three. We want both the FBI agent and the CIA looking for scum, we have SIA's maybe catching scum slips, we have field agents protecting critical roles, and we have the White House making the FBI even more useful, and have the NSA as a backup plan/to help with intel.

Yos, read all the games I am in. There are three current I believe and a fourth where he died. Note how I feel I have a great read on him in all of them. Note how the reverse is true. Note how this is not a scum tell...

[Guardian]

Brownie points for referencing Occam's razor.

[Guardian]

Korran, I am happy you support me, but I think I (and maybe others) have been a bit unfair in our treatment of Xd.

I definitely don't trust him atm, but being suspicious of the other players is what mafia is about! Xd may throw suspicion around in annoying ways sometimes (like saying ta-da when you get angry, lol), but I don't think his behavior justifies cussing him out and I hope this doesn't detract from you staying at the site! Mafia can be a very enjoyable experience .

Now, you two, kiss and make up .

[Guardian]

Well, about ten posts were made while I was writing mine, lol, but the spirit of it still applies .

[Guardian]

@Xdaamno, yeah I read your ta-da out of context, I assumed ONE post had been made while I was writing mine, not ten.

@OTM, Yeah the fist one is meant to be SIA.


I like your suggested setup with me as director, but I would make a few changes.

Director: Guardian - well if I am director, can't disagree here.
Deputy: UltimaAvalon - I agree, I think UA has a level head, is healthily suspicious of me, and of others, and is likely pro-town.
SIA: Spambot - OK, perfect for the position.
SIA: YogurtBandit - I trust YB more than this, I think White House liaison cannot do that much harm and I think having him there would be better than having him here.
Counterintelligence Agent: Albert B. Rampage - Albert I think is very likely town, I don't think we need him in the CIA position, the FBI position is the "very likely town" cop whereas CIA is "maybe town" cop
Crypto: OffTheMark - I agree. You are likely town in my eyes. Yos makes good points, though.
Crypto: Korran - I agree, very likely town in my eyes.
Field Agent/Bodyguard on OTM: Xdaamno - Yeah, I feel pretty good about that one too.
Field Agent/Bodyguard on counterintelligence agent: Yos - I feel this is a waste of Yos's ability if he is town. I would move him to CIA/SIA.
White House: Eyecking - I think YB is better suited here; though I would be OK with Eyecking
FBI: CTD - I don't trust him this much, I would move him to CIA/SIA instead.
NSA: ChannelDeliBird - I don't trust him this much, I would move him to SIA probably, or even bodyguard for such lurking.

Result:

Director: Guardian
Deputy: UltimaAvalon
SIA: Spambot
SIA: CTD
Counterintelligence Agent: Yos
Crypto: OffTheMark
Crypto: Korran
Field Agent/Bodyguard on OTM or Korran: Xdaamno
Field Agent/Bodyguard on counterintelligence agent: CDB
White House: YB
FBI: Albert
NSA: Eyecking

Xd, you still want me to comment on all the positions? I am willing to if yes.

The above presumes those are the roles that we want me to assign. I would be open to moving an SIA to a different role, and maybe we only need one Field Agent as well.

Thoughts?


@Yos - if you get director, I am somewhat resigned to being deputy. I don't think this makes sense, I don't think it is a good idea, but you claim you see me as very scummy and if that is true then deputy makes perfect sense... I disagree that you want more trusted as CIA and less as FBI, I think it is the other way around. Screwing up codes seems like it would be much harder to do than straight out lying, as the FBI agent could do.

[Guardian]

five people are beside Yos, and four beside me, yet our totals are that + 1. Explain?

I think 7 is the electing number.

[Guardian]

SIA: YogurtBandit - I trust YB more than this, I think White House liaison cannot do that much harm and I think having him there would be better than having him here.

Why do you want to put a player you trust in a position where he "can't do much harm"? I think you got confused here. SIA is a good spot for a player you trust. White House is good for someone you don't.

Well, I think both are good for people you trust, but I think the SIA is better for lest trustworthy people because all they do is get code results of text players send the mod. I trust YB, but many players don't, and I think that White House is a good intermediate level of trust; you need someone you trust to relay the intel, but there is not much you can do at the White House position that would really hose the town if you happen to be scum.

[Guardian]

Well, to be honest, I want to hear more about this. If the code is something like XYUFsku342fnk, I find it hard to believe that the scum could falsify it meaningfully. Also, whoever was being falsified against would certainly challenge the crypto/SIA, casting doubt onto the message's truthfulness and the crypto/SIA's alignment.

[Guardian]

The white house speeding up the FBI, our best cop, is crucial, and I cannot believe that you all are disregarding it. That is ludicrous.

[Guardian]

OTM, I don't dislike that setup, though I would want someone at white house.

UA, exactly. We need someone at the white house.... Yos, you ignore that FBI could be killed anyways, etc. etc. etc. The white house play is a good one, it should be done in hour one and will benefit us the rest of the game.

[Guardian]

It is looking like Yos is going to be director. When I consider the IRL issue that I will be at the beach with limited access July 1-8, I realize that me being deputy director is actually ideal.

Nothing more to say at the moment...

[Guardian]

Oh, OTM also unvoted and vote me. I am ahead. I would do a great job, but I will have limited access. If I do get the job,

I will find a way

to post at the beach, it would be incredibly unfair to you all otherwise. I appreciate your confidence guys .

[Guardian]

Do you mean that you are confused I am ahead or because you opposed me, or because there has really be no one putting forth reasons why I would be a good choice? .

[Guardian]

I agree with you for once Xd

About what?

[Guardian]

Can you quote where Xdaamno says what you agree with?

[Guardian]

CTD's list makes a lot of sense for Yos (or me, theoretically) to use if elected.

I'll provide a "LoT" (list of trust), purely based on gut feeling:

knows what he's doing, and is probably town

:
UltimaAvalon
CrashTextDummie
Guardian

doesn't know what he's doing, but is probably town

:
Albert B. Rampage
Korran
YogurtBandit

in the middle/undecided

:
Spambot
Eyceking
Yosarian2 (but doesn't matter for this, really)
Xdaamno
ChannelDelibird

don't trust

:
Off the Mark

Explanations later/if requested.

First group = deputy, FBI, CounterIntel Agent
Second group = crypto, cryto, and more crypto SIA possibly, too SIA seems like it very well could be a waste of a role, as a lot of useless transmissions will be sent to the mod...
Third group = White house, NSA, Bodyguard?
Fourth group = Bodyguards.

OTM I don't trust because I think he was pushing for me for director so he could be crypto. I did not plan on revealing this until I/Yos was elected, but now it's pretty much there, and that is how I feel. Re-read with that lens.

Yos, my final suggestion on setup (10 non-director)

1 CIA
1 SIA
2 Crypto
1 FBI
2 Field Agent
1 Whitehouse
1 NSA
1 your discretion...

Whee...

[Guardian]

Off the Mark Field Agent

Good call imo, for reasons outlined hour 0

CrashTextDummie Counterintelligence Agent

Eh, great call if he is town. Great call if he is scum with you too. I think he is town. I hope. His posts have had really good ideas and stuff.

FrozenAtlantic(replacing ChannelDelibird) Signals Intelligence Analyst

Eh? Not great, not bad

Albert B. Rampage Crypto

perfect position for him. Town, but doesn't really know what's what imo

Guardian Deputy Director

Eh, it was expected. Hopefully you are town, Yos, and not just benching me to bench me.

Spambot Crypto

Disagree here, he is not that sure to be town

Yosarian2 Director

Meh, if he's town, then awesome.

YogurtBandit Field Agent

I disagree here, I find him likely town and good as crypto. I usually find him town, though.

Xdaamno FBI Liason

Eh, he's town? o.O

Eyceking White House Liason

Good enough.

Korran Field Agent

Almost certain he is town. Waste.

UltimaAvalon Signal Intelligence Analyst

SA's are gonna pick up a lot of noise. Also, rather have UA in FBI. UA is most townlie, SA is kind of a waste imo

Thoughts: Yos could be trying his best and have different reads from me, he could be scum putting the noob town in useless roles.

I would encourage both cop roles (either should actually do it, but I encourage both) to investigate Yos.

OTM, do you have anything to say in response to my accusation? It looked to me like you were pushing for my election so you could be crypto.

[Guardian]

Why do you trust OTM the most of all the players?

[Guardian]

if/once yos gets confirmed, he can tell you in private who to protect. while his alignment is unknown... :S

[Guardian]

I get this horrible feeling Yos Albert and Xdaamno are scum together. Look at the key positions they fill. I am picking up on some interactions, too.

CTD, investigate Yos, and send your results to someone besides Albert...

My 'scumdar' is really going off here, I have a horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach about these three... It's like "wow, are they really pulling this off? or am I just crazy?"

I thought I'd post that now, I've been feeling it since 512, and on re-read I am much less certain Albert is town that I was. OTM could be town too, maybe I was overreacting... Wanted to let you guys know.

[Guardian]

Albert, it's hard to say my reasons for being suspicious are imbecile when I haven't even posted them yet....

[Guardian]

No - I am trying to push ahead for discussion. We are very limited on time here. We need to get a bandwagon going to evaluate behaviour. Thanks for your vote, though, that helps.

I've said why you might be scum. And if you're going to ask for it...

vote: OTM

I should really find time to post why I see Yos-Albert-Xdam before I go on vacation... Will try.

[Guardian]

I am posting the following in V/LA and in my sig and in all my games: Hey guys, I will be at the beach with

LA: July 1 - July 8

, I may post some more tonight or tomorrow morning, but after that for a week I will have limited access or no access. There may be places to access the internet at the beach, and I will try to get on once or twice, especially in the games with strict deadlines, but the main purpose of vacation is to recreate and be more detached etc., so if I don't get a chance to post that is why. I ask that I please not be replaced anywhere, I will be super active again when I get back, I will just be gone for this time period. Any games with night/pm-choices, I have pre-sent them in where applicable. See you in a week!

[Guardian]

Xdam, this is in no way going to do justice to my thoughts, but whatever:

Yos - wants to be director a lot. Says he has evidence that he always does this, doesn't. Initially comes up with some things that are subtly anti-town (the not using the white house thing, for instance), but then moves away from them when people disagree. Tie with Xdam? puts him as director.

Xdam - opposes everyone but Yos for director, gets powerful role because of it. Not a lot of theory contributions. Not great reasons for not supporting others over Yos.

Albert - suggesting horribly anti-town ideas, interactions with Yos, possibly faked late appearance.



I am still happy with my vote on OTM though, for reasons previously stated. Albert has the same kind of thing going on though. Albert I feel is the weakest scum candidate of Yos and Xdam. UA seems sincere, and definitely vanilla though.

[Guardian]

If you're going to lynch me while I'm at the beach, maybe I should ask for replacement, because I am not scum and it would be quite a disservice to the town for me to sit around not being able to defend myself and get lynched?....

Eh, w/e, just don't lynch me while I'm gone. I admit to being paranoid, I find it to be a good characteristic for this game.

[Guardian]

Sweet . Yos2 is, though. And his argument is not obviously flawed. That's all I'm sayin'.

[Guardian]

Hi guys. Beach, very limited access. From skimming, I still find OTM scummy, and am still paranoid about Yos + Albert + Xdam. That paranoia could be just... paranoia though.

Laters .

[Guardian]

Why did we lynch YB? He was obv town. There will be some fun reading when I get back...

Korran is obv town too, as is UA. Dont lynch them please.

Real analysis when I get back from the beach. I didnt like FAs 700 though.

[Guardian]

Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and repeat myself - why in hell did we lynch YB? I don't like OTM or Yos2 right now, as pro town.

Again, I need to do a re-read when I can do more than drive by posts... but then again my analysis does little to convince people anyways, I might start changing my play style to not provide analysis, in this and other games...

[Guardian]

I've been back from vacation for a day or two, and I still owe this game a review. My apologies. Content coming tonight or tomorrow night -- this game is now my #2 priority of like 10 threads, I'll get to it ASAP.

[Guardian]

Yos -- did you order this??

[Guardian]

If you make changes again, it will take even longer...

I am not sure if I trust eyceking at fbi, but I trust me at CIA .

MOD: will it take additional time to switch the roles "back"?

[Guardian]

If

Yos was changing

to get scum partners in important roles

Know something I don't know?

[Guardian]

If Yos was changing to get scum partners in important roles

Know something I don't know?

Uhm, what? What is wrong with 'If Yos is changing roles'? What are you assuming, I meant 'Because Yos is changing roles'? In that case, why the hell would I point it out?

I believe in slips as scumtells. One static thing that never changes is that scum have more information that the town. If the scum reveal that, whee! I think you slipped when you said Yos was changing roles, you didn't read what Yos said, and you and Yos have your stories mixed up.

You said if Yos WAS chaning roles. Yos claimed that he didn't change the roles -- you said that he did. Now you changed was to is, and didn't really respond adequately imo.

FOS: Xdaamno, Yos

.

[Guardian]

I still owe this game a re-read, but even though I am suspicious of you both, I want to hear from spambot, and OTM is not a priority right now.

unvote: OTM vote: Spambot

[Guardian]

^^^Nope. Guardian is not scum.

Yes, I voted you because other people had interesting reasons for being suspicious of you, and I wanted to hear from you. I still want to hear from you.

[Guardian]

mod

-- Pooky -- if

the director

doesn't change things, will the actions they are undertaking be completed?

Or are they screwed whether Yos calls for a movement or not?

[Guardian]

For example:

Will Xdaamno's replacement get the results of his investigation if Yos takes no (further?) action, or is Xdaamno's investigation already lost because of Xdaamno and Eyceking being switched.


Also -- was the flavor meant to imply that Yos himself did not send in the choices, or could Yos have sent in the choices himself?

[Guardian]

Damn, Pooky didn't confirm that Xdaamno made an investigation ).

Had to try, sorry Pooky.


The flavor says nothing about who switched it -- are we to simply believe Yos? He could easily have just used his director power to switch those who were investigating him, in a last ditch effort to screw up the town. For all we know, CTD could be scum with him, and Yos could be setting him up to be director next.

Y'all should have made me director *grumble grumble*.


I want Yos's complete explanation. Who is the "they" who hacked your computer. Now.

unvote: Spambot vote: Yos2

.

[Guardian]

o.O!? He knows exactly who hacked his computer? Maybe I

do

[i/]

need to do the re-read I promised. No skating by for me .

[Guardian]

I need to post less and think more. That's about all I can say for right now. I misread OTM's post, and jumped to conclusions. .

unvote

.

This is my last post before I get around to doing the re-read. For some reason, I am just not looking forward to doing it.

Apologies. If you all feel I would better be replaced (and it is not a burden on the mod) this is acceptable; this objectively seems like it should be such an awesome game but I am not having fun in it, as I am in my other games.

Again, barring you agreeing I should be replaced, this is the last you will hear from me until I re-read. Hopefully when I get some sense of what is going on I will enjoy it more .

[Guardian]

I think you're scum. But that is not based off a re-read. . Go ahead, if you must send it in now . I am town. Having me in a useless role is a bad idea. I'd rather stay at CIA .

[Guardian]

Ok. Re-read.

Yos, you really want me to address that? *grumble grumble* I will do so if you affirm that it is so desired. I now understand what is going on in the game better than I did. I have had a familiar feeling -- re-reading the game

I have been quite perceptive and yet an idiot

at the same time. This post may be inconsistent with previos positions I held, because I was wrong.

I am not interested in seeing any of the latecomers lynched. I doubt they are all scum, and even doubt that any are scum. This is crappy for the scum if I am right, but I trust people to come when they get a PM a lot more than I trust my reads.

I stand by my early defense of YB

. I see why he was lynched, but in my eyes he was obviously not scum in this game. Oh well.

FOS: Frozen Atlantic

.

Frozen Atlantic is highly suspect

. Notice the -1 vote on YB. Notice the OMGUS on Xdaamno. Notice how easy it is to hide behind all the roleplaying. Also, what contributions has FA made? Predecessor was a lurker, and now we get this.

Yos2 is highly suspect as well. I don't buy the explanation

. I think he was being investigated, I think he knew he would turn up scum, and I think he pulled this as a last ditch effort to survive.

Also, some subtle pro-scum game theory:
-We don't want to "make use of all our lynches" if we aren't feeling good about anyone as scum. If we have only 6 people left at hour 21, with 2 (arbitrary number) of them scum, how in hell are we going to keep Jack alive?
-The White house was OBV OBV speed up the FBI -- and you almost didn't want us to do it. Wtf? With a sped up FBI, we will profit much more now.
-Also, assuming which terrost groups did it is highly suspect. UA pointed this out right quick, and kudos for that -- Yos could have been misleading us here. Ultimately, I think CTD is more pro-town than yos, and would be happy with Yos getting the axe. Assign me to whatever role, just not to a useless one.

Also, I cannot believe no-one brought this up in my absence -- SIA's SHOULD target the deputy. Deputy = potentially scummy player. I have had NO PM communication with the mod or anyone else all game. If someone had been monitoring that, I would be cleared by now, .

OTM, I don't like, pushed innocence too much for my tastes, used the director chat role too much, but I am not interested in seeing his lynch before Yos or FA.

UA should be in an investigative role -- CIA or FBI. The man is town. Korran should be crypto -- also town.

Oh, yeah:

Vote: Yos2

again.

I know I have probably destroyed my credibility from not re-reading and jumping around like a fish the past few pages, but meh, I can't do anything about that now.

FA & Yos

are my two top picks at the moment.

I'd like to hear their thoughts about each other

. Yos, if you still want me to address your post, I will do so.

Crash Text Dummie

-- what do you think of my case on Yos? And the case on Yos in general? You are generally pro-town and I think people may listen to you more than me at this point...

Also interested in OTMs thoughts, specifically. Anyone's thoughts really.

I realized why I wasn't having fun -- I am the only player in a vanilla role, when I am obv town , I have good ideas about who the scum are, but I vacation lurked and played horribly, and YB got lynched when I have some great town tells on him (not revealing them ^_^). Also, Korran, UA & YB were placed in suboptimal positions.

I am still slightly suspicious of Xdam, but not as much as FA and Yos right now.

There ya go.

I am fine being deputy, or fine with CTD there. I think Yos is lying, most likely. I like OTM as field agent, and Eyceking as some non crypto non investigative role.

[Guardian]

No. I'm town.

I might respond in detail later, I might now, but right now it is too depressing.

[Guardian]

OTM -- scum definitely could "pull" the reaction I am having, but it is really just my frustration at this game and my play in it.

I am glad you find me town -- as I am town -- but yeah a scum could easily pretend to get frustrated, imo.


I am still not ready to respond to Yos -- I have my thoughts, but putting them into words will just suck and take time and make me more annoyed when he responds and points out the "flaws" in my responses.

I think Yos2 is lying. I think FA is also highly possible to be scum.

I think if Yos2 is town that tells us a lot, that scum can hack the director, etc. etc., but I don't think Yos2 is town. He is the only player, pretty much, that I have consistently found scummy all game.

He should be lynched.

One thing I guarantee -- if he is lynched and is town, I will try to respond to his points in full, and be quite annoyed with myself -- but I don't think he is town, and I don't particularly feel like engaging in debate with him right now. Again, maybe later, maybe not.

[Guardian]

oh and:

OTM -- I don't find the "i could have killed him" to be good. there could be many reasons Yos decided not to kill him. Hell, it could be this very argument.

Maybe CTD is investigating scum too, maybe there is an SIA on Yos or other scum, we just don't know.


I don't find it to be BS that Albert fished for a reaction -- I sometimes do that to. It isn't at all effective to say something and then add [PS I don't mean this I just want to get your reaction] -- to get a reaction you have to sound like you are serious about the thing you are trying to get a reaction from.

[Guardian]

You couldn't send in a kill because of who the SIAs were targeting -- that was what I meant by that option -- make sense now?

OTM -- I really don't think he's town. If he is though, and has genuine suspicion of me, if he gets lynched that will be confirmed town suspicion. I don't feel up to responding right now because I think he's scum and I don't like the case at all, but I'm sure there are "flaws" in my counter-arguments and it will start this back and forth that I'm really not up for.

At least the three/four of us are posting -- anyone else, thoughts? Also, any of you like to comment on FA as scum?

[Guardian]

"Uh, sure, I would." FA raises his hand meekly and rolls his eyes. "Not scum. I'd also like to say that nothing you've gotta say about Yosarian holds any water at all - anyone who's willing to crawl through your VERY extensive history here will see very planly that you have NOT consistently found him scummy, that you'veve qualified practically every statement you've made on him throughout the game, and that almost NONE of those statements have been backed with game based evidence. Your suspicion of him is based solely on the fact that he was more vocal than you in your first hour - your classic "Too Town" fallacy, backed extensively by your constant "I hope he's town" jibberish."

Ok. Maybe I have not found him consistently scummy. This has nothing to do with my attack right now -- finding him consistently scummy has nothing to do with the merits of the attack. This does nothing to address them.

Seriously - what was this guy on about? "And either you think scum's too active or not active enough, becuase, as a poster so far, I'm on the complete opposite end of the spectrum as Yosarian. Let me go ahead and rest your frantic head, dude. Look at my files - I almost always keep a low profile until I have a trickle of game based information. OK? OK. Any other questions?"

Being active or not active are only small parts of what I use to determine who is scum. I'm glad you noticed that Yos is at least posting a lot of content and you... aren't, though.

My question for you is this: Are you are going to address the merits of the attacks on you and Yos, or are you only going to focus on these two peripheral inconsistencies?

You couldn't send in a kill because of who the SIAs were targeting -- that was what I meant by that option -- make sense now?

Huh? No, that really dosn't make any sense at all. Could you clarify?

Ok. Assume there is an SIA on you, and an SIA on a scum buddy of yours. It would be too risky for either of you to send in a kill at this point, but it would make more sense for you to be "hacked" into sending an order to switch these positions. Make sense now? If not, what is unclear?

OTM -- I really don't think he's town. If he is though, and has genuine suspicion of me, if he gets lynched that will be confirmed town suspicion. I don't feel up to responding right now because I think he's scum and I don't like the case at all, but I'm sure there are "flaws" in my counter-arguments and it will start this back and forth that I'm really not up for.

That's just bizzare. You're not going to bother debating or discussing anything with me or even trying to respond to any of my points...um...until after I'm lynched?

If you really think I'm scum and want me lynched, shouldn't you be, like, arguing with my points here, trying to show how you think I'm wrong or somnething?

In theory, I probably should. I am not very interested in discussing the merits of your attack on me, though, because I know I am not scum. I know you all don't know this, I know if every player did that that it would be bad, etc. etc., but right now I'm just not interested, because I know for certain that I am right. Maybe later, not now, though.

I am, however, interested in discussing the merits of my attack on you, because I think there is a great probability of you being scum, but I do not know for certain that I am right.

Yos, what do you think about FA?

[Guardian]

v/la slightly for the next few days.

I will actually address stuff when I return. Sorry for being a whiny brat.

[Guardian]

otm: Agree on FA. Vote and comments when I return in 48 hours or so. Parties is fun .

[Guardian]

Back from v/la. If anyone links to specific posts, or types specific things they want me to address, I am now willing to. Nothing that has transpired in the last few days has caused me to think Yosarian2 is town.

Yos2, the reason I wanted to know what you thought about FA is because I made a case on him... it is quite odd that you ask me why I want to hear about him after I make a case... its almost like you aren't even reading my posts...

The Field Agent idea is a bad idea in my opinion, it seems like they would just be randomly picking locations in DC, which is quite a big city. It wouldn't be productive. It almost seems the SIAs should be monitoring suspect terrorist cells instead of players, as maybe we could come up with something useful.

[Guardian]

What makes us so sure the bomb is in a place of interest as opposed to in some random building in the federal triangle? I don't understand why we have reason to think that random searches of "locations of interest" will be effective. In 24, the bomb is always in "some warehouse".

[Guardian]

I don't think that that is a safe assumption. I think that's reading too much into the mod's map choice. I think it would make perfect sense and not be stupid if the bomb was in a warehouse in a location somewhere on the map.... no?

OTM, since you and I seem to be alone here, what do you think about lynching someone at every opportunity, even if there are not any good scum candidates? Does it not seem like a bad idea to you?

[Guardian]

Back from v/la. If anyone links to specific posts, or types specific things they want me to address, I am now willing to.

Blatant refusal to address cases on me. Yes sir. Mr. Yos2.

I think you mis-characterize my attack on you. Your points on what -- on the Field Agent thing? Please be more specific.

[Guardian]

I agree, as per my previous reasoning.... No one is interested in Yos besides me...

unvote: Yosarian2 vote: Frozen Atlantic

. I should probably address FA's response to my reasoning. Will do... maybe.

[Guardian]

Back from v/la. If anyone links to specific posts, or types specific things they want me to address, I am now willing to.

Blatant refusal to address cases on me. Yes sir. Mr. Yos2.

I had been refusing. I am no longer. Do you want me to actually look back through your posts and find the case myself? Fine, will do!

[Guardian]

Sweet. Doin it tonight, hopefully.

[Guardian]

Me trying to respond to yosarian2 in 555, even though I think Yos is scum and this is pointless.

Yos - wants to be director a lot. Says he has evidence that he always does this, doesn't. Initially comes up with some things that are subtly anti-town (the not using the white house thing, for instance), but then moves away from them when people disagree. Tie with Xdam? puts him as director.

Using the white house guy or not is a close call.

I really really disagree there. Speeding up the FBI when we don't really have a better idea of what we should be doing is an obvious move. Having the FBI sped up is going to help us all

We're going to have to move some people around over the next few hours as people start to die or get lynched, and keeping someone in a position that dosn't do anything directly, and keeping him there until hour 5, is iffy, for a possible long-term payoff, is not as obveous a choice as you try to make it sound.

Again, I disagree. By the way,

anyone,

does Eyceking's speed up count? Or does someone have to do it again now?

Honestly, I didn't change my mind because of your arguments; I changed my mind mostly because eyeking started looking suspicious to me, and as I didn't want him to be a crypto or a SIA agent I didn't really have anywhere else safe to put him.

The white house is hardly safe as we can bribe terrorists or w/e, but ok.

Xdam - opposes everyone but Yos for director, gets powerful role because of it. Not a lot of theory contributions. Not great reasons for not supporting others over Yos.

Bull. I explained why I made him a cop; it's because he did good scum-hunting in the pre-game, which is what I was looking for as we really want our cops to nail a scum fast. Perhaps he didn't have as many theory contrabutions as scum, but he was one of the most active people during hour zero, and I think scumhunting's much more important in a cop then game theory, don't you?

I think pro towness is important in a cop. I still think UA or CTD would be better cops, as they are more pro-town looking.

He supported me over you for dictator because you've been looking scummy, and he explained why in great detail. It's also a complete misrepresentation to say that he "opposed anyone but Yos for dictator" or the he got a powerful role "because" he supported me; many other people were supporting me from the beginning of the game, wheras he didn't vote for me until much later, and for a while he supported Crashtext instead of me.

OK, that's true, fair enough.

You've been attacking him ever since he started attacking you've given quite terrible reasons why. And now you're pretty blatently just making stuff up that has no basis in the thread.

Huh? Making stuff up? Where, oh master Yos?

Albert - suggesting horribly anti-town ideas, interactions with Yos, possibly faked late appearance.

Sure, I disagree with many of his stratagy ideas. However, my opinion of him is the same one you yourself stated several pages ago:

perfect position for him. Town, but doesn't really know what's what imo

What, exactally, has changed your opinion since then? Or are you just throwing whatever you can at the wall to see if it sticks?

I change my mind a lot. I can't answer this adequately because as of right now I find Albert townlike,

You know what, this entire post of Guardian's been full of paranoia and OMGUS attacks against people who doubted him earlier in the game.

Paranoia, possibly. OMGUS, I don't think so.

This, combined with his scummy day zero behavior, his intense desire to be dictator and to attack anyone who got in his way, and his attempt to direct the cops earlier today (most likely in order to get them to not target HIM or one of his buddies) has convinced me he's probably scum.

I wanted someone I knew was pro-town and would do a good job as director. Only I fit the bill. I think you are the dictator, not me, and scum at that.

[Guardian]

Here again, Addressing Yos's attacks like it's my job...
Post 863 this time.

Yos, you really want me to address that? *grumble grumble*

Yes, as I expained in that post several reasons I suspect you, and you never responded to it other then to kind of agree with it in a wierd way, I certanly would like you to adress that.

Meh, ok, just did.

Yos2 is highly suspect as well. I don't buy the explanation. I think he was being investigated, I think he knew he would turn up scum, and I think he pulled this as a last ditch effort to survive.

(shrug) You can think whatever you want. I've told you what I know

I STILL see no reason to believe Yos's computer was hacked. What am I missing?

I will say one thing; your theory that I faked the whole thing just to stop Xdaamo's investigation of me has one very large hole in it.

During hour 4, Off The Mark had told me he was protecting CTD, not Xdaamo. There was no one protecting Xdaamo during that time. If was a scum who had wanted to stop Xdaamo's investigation of me, I could have just killed him.

You couldn't have stopped CTD's investigation, AND eyceking's speedup, AND Xdaamno's investigation though. You managed to do all three, and came up with this nice excuse "OHMIGOD, my computer was hacked." Even if you had killed Xdam, suspicion would have come to you because Xdam was investigating you and then he was killed. The way you did it, you managed to disrupt THREE actions AND saved the mafia kill. Saying that you as mafia doing this has a "very large hole in it" is highly suspect.

Also, some subtle pro-scum game theory:
-We don't want to "make use of all our lynches" if we aren't feeling good about anyone as scum. If we have only 6 people left at hour 21, with 2 (arbitrary number) of them scum, how in hell are we going to keep Jack alive?

Look, I still think our best chance of winning this is to lynch all of the scum before we run out of time.

Why not help Jack find the bomb? Really, why not? I think if we play this well we almost have a better chance of doing that then finding scum. It will be very hard to do that if we have a scum director though.

If it gets to hour 24, and we haven't lynched all the scum, and we haven't somehow gotten Jack to disarm the bomb, we lose.

Very true, so why not disarm the bomb again?

And frankly, as of yet, we've gotten absolutly no actionable intellegence to help Jack out, and Jack's already been hurt. If anyone's got any ideas of what we can do to help us reach the "disarm the bomb" win condition, speak up, but I'm not going to count on it at the moment.

Put good players in all the agency roles, listen to the intel, help Jack, win the prize. It doesn't seem complicated to me. The longer this game goes on, the more the agency roles are important. And the more important it is for us to have able bodied townies around we can plug into roles. Your idea of using every available lynch will severely cripple the town's ability to

protect

Jack, never mind find the bomb.

Meanwhile, all the scum have to do in order to win is to keep one of them alive long enough to run out the clock, and then they win. I think that's probably what they're trying to do, in fact; that would explain why they're hacking and disrupting us instead of killing us.

OR kill jack. I think this is complete misdirection and you are trying to kill Jack, and cripple and confuse the town.

If we fail to make use of all our lynching chances, if we only get 5, or 4, or whatever lynches off before hour 24, what do you think the odds are of us catching all the scum on time? If we play it your way, if we take it safe and easy and only lynch when we're sure, sure, there might still be 7 or 8 people left late in the game, but if 1 of them is scum, and we don't find him in time, we lose.

If we lynch all the townies, how are we going to utilize all the power roles? We won't be able to. Lynching for lynching's sake is a bad play in this game, imo.

-The White house was OBV OBV speed up the FBI -- and you almost didn't want us to do it. Wtf? With a sped up FBI, we will profit much more now.

Ok, I already responded to this in the post I asked you to respond to earlier, and you've still ignored.

Not anymore, I adressed it...

And your case here is even weaker now, as the scum apparently have the ability to disrput long-term actions like the white house thing (like they just did).

Yeah, that's true... they do have that ability.... WHEN A SCUM IS DIRECTOR....

-Also, assuming which terrost groups did it is highly suspect. UA pointed this out right quick, and kudos for that -- Yos could have been misleading us here.

I'm not assuming anything. I'm trying to speculate and figure stuff out based on the hints the mod has been giving us in the thread. If we want to help Jack, it's pretty obveous from the mod's posts that at some point we're going to want to figure out which group is behind the planning, and I can only think that the two mod reports of other terrorist activity (the oil tanker thing, and the spy satalite thing) are supposed to be some kind of hint to help us figure out stuff.

Since when have you wanted to help Jack? Up until this bit, it seems you've been much more concerned with voting off players at every opportunity and ignoring the Jack win condition.

Again, you're big on critisizing, but I'm just trying to figure out stuff here. Do you have any better ideas on what's going on here?

Yeah, I do. You're scum, we need a town director, and we need to start helping Jack and using lynches much more judiciously.

Also, I cannot believe no-one brought this up in my absence -- SIA's SHOULD target the deputy. Deputy = potentially scummy player. I have had NO PM communication with the mod or anyone else all game. If someone had been monitoring that, I would be cleared by now, .

That's really, really dumb, Guardian.

Ohmibad. Proven townies = really really dumb. Sorry for suggesting it.[/sarcasm]

The only thing the SIA's detect are communicatiosn sent from a player to a mod. And I'm sure that any reasonably intellegent scum group that you were a part of would have had someone lower key send in any scum actions, not someone that everyone is as suspicious of as you.

Who knows how many scum there are? And who knows who the SIAs would think is scummy. I disagree.

Besides, just earlier in this post, you were trying to claim that I made up the whole "hacking" thing. If that were true, then it would appear that the scum haven't done ANYTHING yet this game, so how would that "clear" you anyway?

OK, that is a good point. I think the scum are waiting to use their kill for some reason.

In fact, I think this "Oh, if a SIA's been watching me that would clear me!" line was a slip; it sounds like you know that the hacking thing DID happen, and you also know it was one of your scum-buddies and not you who did it.

Negative.

I also think that you're trying to get the SIA's to say who they are targeting, so you and your scum buddies know which one of you should send in orders in the future.

fos:Guardian

Nope. Just that if one of them had been targeting me, that'd have been really nice.

UA should be in an investigative role -- CIA or FBI. The man is town. Korran should be crypto -- also town.

Um...Korran has been lurking for most of the game. I'm not sure how you can claim to have a read on him, and I'm also not sure how you think it's a good idea to have a crypto who's apparenlty completly vanished, and thus is unlikely to either decode anything or share any results with us if he did.

I want a town crypto. Is that too much to ask?

And you were accusing me of suggesting anti-town stratagy. Hah. Basically every piece of stratagy advice you just gave, from "let's make the lurker a crypto" to "let's not use all of our lynches!" seemes designed to help the town lose.

I disagree for reasons stated above.

vote:Guardian

Why am I not surprised. His main detractor, and he dedicates two huge posts to finding me suspicous and voting me.


I am still feeling Yos2 as scum. There is my responses. Do what you will, town ;|.

[Guardian]

/sign

As-Salamu Alaykum, my brother

????

[Guardian]

Kinetic, you can help it. Fight the feeling, because its leading you to vote a townie.

Still feeling good about Yos2 and FA as scum, I may or may not address Yos2's counterpoints to my counterpoints, depending on whether or not I feel like it .


I think we want people in all the agencies pretty soon, and take away 1 or 2 SIAs and Field Agents. I think the agencies are going to give us valuable intel to help us find terrorists.

[Guardian]

check the first page -- I just started an investigation -- anyone else in new roles should do stuff, too.

I am getting cold feet about Yos2.... but the hacking thing sits horribly with me. I just don't know...

I still feel good about FA. What do you all think?

[Guardian]

If that is the case, then I did no harm by starting something, right?

And if you get "hacked" and we're not switched back, then better safe than sorry, right?

[Guardian]

Yeah, I thought that you'd said you'd switched back. Thoughts on FA, yos? Thoughts on anyone else as scum besides me?

[Guardian]

I hide nothing.

I got no result CTD ;P.

Still want to hear from FA.

mod

would any 4 hour actions starting hour 1 have finished? ie, eyceking speeding up the fbi? Also update the first post so Kinetic is there.

[Guardian]

Is the place that was attacked in DC? If not, couldn't it be completely unrelated?

[Guardian]

I investigated a target site (Jefferson memorial) and The bomb is not there,

most likely

I'm guessing they both got the same kind of PM?

[Guardian]

Is that about how your ability worked, Guardian?

Yeah, I did get an opportunity to investigate further in my role as FA, but it would have taken another hour.

Yos2, do you think I should have spent the time to be 100%?

[Guardian]

I was testing you to try and see if you just slipped and said Guardian instead of OTM, or if you were paying so little attention as to think I was a field agent.

You passed.

[Guardian]

Based on that one post, yes. I remembered YB having the same exact non sureness that OTM had, and then you said I was the Field Agent, not OTM.

I wanted to keep you honest.

[Guardian]

I was going to comment on this earlier, but I though I'd wait a bit and see how it developed.... Kinetic, WTF!? How can you interpret my post any other way? And how are you being taken out of context!?

I can't believe you honestly didn't interpret it... the ONLY way it can be interpreted. Even after Albert quoted it for you, you STILL are saying that you could be right about this? WTF!? I had thought Korran was so pro-town earlier, but honestly... how can you have possibly misinterpreted this?


FA -- one thing of interest -- you

disagree

with Yos2 that we should lynch at every opportunity? Earlier, iirc, you were singing his praises like he couldn't have any faults.

fos as a group?: FA, Yos2, Kinetic. Were it not for the role switching, Yos2 would pretty much be off there.

But I find it really, really hard to just take him at his word, with something like "o yeah that sucks that your positions were switched and all the important actions got cancelled, someone hacked my computer obvobv. and lol the scum didn't kill yet so obv they hacked me."

I could see scum not killing just to make that argument. Still, FA I want to see go first, I think.

One last thing -- someone said I will be suspicious if FA comes up town -- who said that, and why?

[Guardian]

I was asking Xdaamno if he was kidding, as he had claimed.... quite obviously, imo.

[Guardian]

Look, first off - I know with 100% certainty what I meant. I meant I didn't get a PM. Continuing to question what I meant after I said what I meant is boggling, all we can debate now is if your interpretation was reasonable, which I think it wasn't.


btw: "I assume we will" later made it so painfully obvious...


In addition, Xdaamno said he was kidding. I was confused, and wanted a confirmation that he was kidding. I don't find your interpretation reasonable.

[Guardian]

Do you insist that I answer that completely disregarding that you were one of the three latecomers?

I admit that I have used that as a crutch in my analysis of you three, and while I do find you town above and beyond that, I am not sure my certainty would be as high were you not a latecomer.

Also, is this question going to help you determine my alignment in some way, or is it just for your ego... because if it is

just

for your ego.... .

[Guardian]

yeah. fa is probably scum. not particularly buying the defense, I will miss the roleplaying though .

ua, i have a few of other games higher in priority than this one, so no re-read right now, but basically you, most of all of the latecomers, I found town because:

-your coming late seemed most sincere of all, and you didn't try and flaunt that as a town tell.
-your setup discussion/ideas seemed reasonable and likely to help town.
-your actions re: who should be director made sense to me and even though I didn't like your conclusion (lol) you made your thought process clear and it didn't seemed you were scum trying to swing it one way or the other.

[Guardian]

even if they could talk then, which is uncertain, maybe

you

they didn't think of that at the time, Yos?

[Guardian]

OTM, your trust is not misplaced.

I am still very conflicted about Yos2.

I kind of do think we need to make a lynch, even though I initially disagreed with that. I really wish I knew Yos2's alignment, because if the scum CAN hack us like he said, that is very valuable intel... and if he is scum, well that is valuable intel too .

Spambot and Eyceking are lurking indeed.


I still feel up for a FA lynch as it lets us know a lot and I find him scummy. He seems to be requesting a more detailed case than the one I made earlier? If so I am happy to try and make one.

[Guardian]

YoS, if I may, I'd like to come into your office at some point and discuss something with you. It should be quick, and I'd preferably like to do it when we are both online so we can get an exchange going.

MOD:

is the use of AIM acceptable for office communication? If so, we can definitely do it there and get it over quick.

[Guardian]

Awesome, thanks Pooky -- Yos, if we could chat?

[Guardian]

I agree with Yos2 on this one. I will re-read again if possible, but we need to make a lynch. I thought he was trying to hurt the town with this earlier, but whether Yos2 is scum or not, I think that this does help us.

Think of this game as a speed game (which it

is

) with 8 days max and 9 irl day deadlines. We pretty much

should

be lynching every 9 days, as even though this is flavored and all it is still mafia and we can still win by lynching all the scum. Missing a lynch due to deadline is just as bad here as it is in a no theme nightless game with 12 players and 9 day deadlines.

I still like the FA play at the moment. No, the case isn't that strong, but I don't find anyone else to be a better play.

One thing I note, with pj and Ibby replacing in, I am quite scared if they are inheriting scum roles.

IGMEOY

you two (and Yos, sill), just because you are quite good players and I personally need to watch you closely if I am to find any of you as scum .

fyi: I will be on v/la for 5 days starting Wednesday -- I may be able to post once or twice, so not much of a problem, but when on vacation the question is if I will

want

to post .

[Guardian]

While it's been a consistent theme for Guardian since the start of the game to mistrust and cast suspicion on more experienced players, I find his latest post somewhat scummy.

Woah -- Ibby -- while I disagree with the constant theme bit, if you find that I have been doing that all game,

why do you only find this instance of it scummy??

If I saw someone doing that for only those reasons, I would find all of it scummy -- no!?

That being said, I am not even "casting suspicion" on you here -- I want you watched closely. Are you uncomfortable with that?

While he suggests the possibility of more experienced players in scum roles has him concerned, it's interesting that he fails completely to see the other side of the coin.

Eh, the good scum side of the coin worries me more. That's why I said IGMEOY, I don't want to be duped by great scum. If you are great town, it will show by your finding scum for us. Yos2 has failed to make any great strides at doing so (sorry Yos ) and you two are yet untested.

More experienced players in town roles can also be extremely helpful to the town.

I repeat, if you are town, it will show. In the meanwhile, I am going to watch you closely. mmmk?

It makes me wonder what Guardian is really worried about.

Not losing to good scum...?


I notice people voting me. I think I am pretty obviously town, and I've stated why. I didn't bother to read the first post, and I didn't get a role PM, and said so. If that makes me an idiot, or too jumpy, or whatever, that's fine, but it also makes me a bad lynch. I think I've responded well to any cases brought against me, and I think that, even objectively, a me-lynch is pretty obviously a mislynch.

That being said, the case on FA is not great either -- I just feel that he hasn't been helpful, has lurked, has tried to get us to buy a meta-defense that he always lurks, and while I will miss the roleplaying deeply I find his not helping us find scum to be scummy.

Note how I have a town tell on YB and defended him all game as obvious town and he got lynched. Note how I still stand by my read on Korran even though Kinetic is extremely misguidedly attacking me. Spambot I am not sure about, but if you read his posts you will see most of why he is attacking me is his disturbance about me voting him and unvoting him.

Again, I think I am pretty obviously a bad lynch. Someone has to be lynched, and if it is going to be me, then them's the breaks for the town. If I do get lynched, remember to look carefully at the people who are pushing my wagon (it is a discredit to my play that my wagon is almost always an easy wagon to push. whatever, it is an easy wagon to push, and I ask you to look closely at those doing so). Remember to not let the three "experts" glide by, and look closely at FA for "tomorrow's" lynch.

Eh, I

always

find it scummy when someone adopts a defeatist attitude, but here goes. This game has been the least fun for me of any game I've played in on here, largely because I have no clear idea of who the scum are -- nor do I even have a great case/idea on anyone. Also, I lost the director race, and have been the only player in a flavorless, vanilla role, the whole entire game. In a game with such a great theme, that is honestly quite infuriating and de-motivating.

I don't want to be mislynched in that I would very much like to win this game, but if you do want to lynch me and knowing me to be town will help you a lot in finding scum, then go for it.

I honestly think the wagon on me is *obviously* misguided, and as this post and me going v/la probably isn't going to make it much less easier for people to lynch me, I really ask that if I am lynched you look at the people who tried to start it and the people who jump on.


I think FA is a better play than me today, because I've contributed, and tried, for what that's worth, while FA has lurked and hid behind his roleplaying that he isn't really doing anything to help try and find scum. I will be on v/la Starting tomorrow, if you have anything you want to address, ask me tonight -- if you just want to hop on the easy wagon, go ahead, but I really hope the town looks at you with great scrutiny tomorrow.

I honestly think we had 6 obvious town in this game, in me, korran, yb, and the three latecomers. If more than one of those is scum, I'll be really surprised. Somehow, in my absence, we managed to lynch one of those, and it looks worse and worse that the town is going to waste a lynch on another. Whatever, honestly. If my lynch helps the town because the town can see how easy the lynch was and how people are jumping on just because they aren't willing to look hard for scum, then all the better for the town. If my mislych just hurts the town and we lose, honestly y'all deserve it.

Nightless typically has 4 scum 8 town. Maybe it is 3 scum 9 town here, but those are pretty much the only two options imo. For all I know, a wagon of 4 with 3 scum could lynch me at this point. SO again, watch the wagons closely.

If you manage not to mislynch me and instead lynch FA or some other good candidate, I will be due for a re-read Monday when I get back and continue to do my best to help find scum.

In sum, don't be idiots, and find someone else to lynch. Failing that, when I turn up town, look close as shit at those who join my wagon and stubbornly refuse to go after FA or anyone else.

That's my piece.

ps: I know I used the word honestly three times. Deal with it.

[Guardian]

yos, office for one half second?

[Guardian]

*walks out of the office with a sad face*.

Eh, I feel like I might get lynched today, just because I don't have the effort for this game. Sorry for all the other pro-town players. I am vanilla, like I said post one . If you lynch me, it is both our faults ;P.

I think FA is scum for his non helpfulness, and similar can be said of Spambot.

CDB's getting angry at me for not reading the opening post is characteristaclly scum -- only scum don't want confirmed townies. FA has not really helped out this game at all, and continues to not do much.

PJ I am finding suspicious because of how damn hard he is trying to look like he has no additonal info. Should my role be doing something? Oh My God -- Yos was hacked? Can the bomb move? Are there aliens?

Seriously, it looks like he is trying to make sure he doesn't reveal having additional info.

Yos, the hacking thing still bugs me. No way at all to know if it is true. Other than that I think Yos is town. Yos finds me less scummy from our chats but doesnt want to defend me in case I turn up scum, which is reasonable... if he is town. Yos's alignment annoys me to no end, I have no freakin idea I am so conflicted about it.


I think it is about 90% likely that 0/4 of those who claimed vanilla are vanilla. It happened to me, and I can definitely see it happening to the three latecomers. It just makes sense. Especially OTM and UA, OTM came first iirc, and UA just seemed SO sincere. IF any of us is scum it is Albert, but I doubt even that.

I feel Korran was just hella frustrated townie, Kinetic is being dumb though .

If I had to pick 3 scum, i would be FA, spambot, and... eh Yos. to be lynched in that order.

look at how weak a case spambot is jumping on me for. FA has done nothing to help a nd CDB's anger was scummy. Yos, the hacking just doesnt sit well with me. especially the 2 consecutive hour thing. damn you yos D:.

I am town. try not to lynch me. But definitely lynch someone . If I survive today, I will do *another* re-read (makes 3) and try and find scum. I am not re-reading before potentially getting lynched today because I've just done like 3 re-reads and re-reading here just before getting lynched is just not worth it to me.

I don't really care if you don't like me saying that I am town. I am. Deal with it. Find scum.

Later.

[Guardian]

I'm having trouble with Guardian. Regardless of his alignment, I think he is playing badly

Me too

I don't understand how his suspicions have progressed at all, nor do I agree with his reasoning very often.

Yeah I agree with like half of that.

Some posts from him seem good, and other ones just leave me wondering what the heck he was thinking while writing them.

True.

Also, friendly advice: stop saying "I'm a townie" all the time.

But it is fun, and true .

It is just annoying, and that's about the only purpose it serves.

No, no -- I'm telling you my alignment. That is very important in mafia. .

[Guardian]

This game makes me want to shoot myself in the face. I almost hope I get lynched so I don't have to re-read... .

Pooky

, if it is at all convenient to replace me, I would like that. I will continue to play until such a candidate might be found, though.

[Guardian]

ok, whatever. lynch someone, preferably... eh no preference. I am town if that helps your decision.

I am really not going to bother putting up much of a fight. If you let the scum (or foolish townies) convince you that my play is most likely to have been scum play, so be it.

Any specific questions you have that you want me to ask I will address, I have done so at all times and I believe answered all questions in a reasonable/convincing manner.



interesting to note: yb supported me, and xdaamno backed off his suspicions of me and was at worst neutral towards me.

[Guardian]

it almost seems like you (or your scum mates) are just hoping that we all say "Ok, let's give Guardian's replacement a chance to read" which would probably mean that we'd either miss the hour 9 deadline or else FA would be lynched instead.

Wow, that feels like a huge reach to me. Scummy!

qft, yos...

[Guardian]

Who says I am about to be lynched. What I worry about is if I don't get lynched, I'll have to re-read all this and try and find scumminess when I see no legitimate cases to be had.

It's about even at the moment, and the new players need to read. Probably FA or me will be lynched, but we don't know that for sure.

[Guardian]

Yeah, anyone who doesn't vote before deadline is really scummy. I would consider self hammering if an FA wagon isn't gonna happen, because the town just needs confirmed accurate information. We need to not miss lynches, missing lynches is absolutely ridiculous. If we miss an hour 8 lynch and there are six people on me, I will still be around as a red herring -- ditto with FA.

We MUST lynch to use our maximum number of lynches.

I'm town, I find FA scummy, but whatever. Ibby, PJ, UA, you need to vote me or FA, and quickly.

Ibby, this is a deadline. Your not voting will be horribly detrimental to us by the end of the game. FA and I may not even be two ideal candidates to select from, but we need to lynch

someone

.

[Guardian]

Gah. If I am this scummy just lynch me. I can be done with this game, and you can be done with a red herring.

I am sorry but I am not going to go back and give the town a better read on my current suspicions and reasons for them right before getting mislynched. Read my last few posts, if you think they come from a scum about to die, go ahead. I can guarantee I'd be loving the game if I were scum, or even if I was town and had any idea at all what was going on. Oh well.

[Guardian]

FA has been lurking. I've been trying. That is, very basically, the difference.


Kinetic strongly implied that I have hurt the town by saying that "well if FA hasn't helped, at least he hasn't hurt".

Except by drawing suspicion to myself and my possible mislynch, I fail to see

any way

where I have hurt the town. My current role can do nothing, literally, and I have helped generate loads of discussion. Kinetic, I really don't like that backhanded and untrue point against me.



Also, this is WIFOM and a bit of a stretch, bud if Yos isn't scum and I am, might he not have been killed to get a scum director? Think about that one, especially Yos if you are indeed Yos-town .

Also, FA helped lynch YB, I didn't.

Yeah, like, I have acted impulsively and possibly give out a scummy vibe. This isn't the best I've played in mafia, by far. But I'm not a good lynch.

But it would end the misery...

[Guardian]

Ah ok. Your vote is pointed at me, though, and you were defending my main opponent for election .

[Guardian]

E tu, Brute?

random thought as I'm being lynched -- maybe UA's ego wanted to know why he came last since he was scum and wanted to know if he really was playing townlike. just think about that.

think about yos scum, and def think about FA scum.

watch the good players very carefully. oh, and put someone trustable in co-director. you don't want a mafia kill on yos and a mafia director.. or a director you could lynch.

i have no great reads on anyone left alive, excpet kinetic is prolly town.

[Guardian]

The self-hammering comment by Guardian was scummy as hell. I feel pretty confident we finally got one.

we need lynches.

you don't got one.

if you think it is so scummy, hammer me, so you can be blamed for my lynch

and christ, people when i am dead analyze the YB lynch. too little of that was done. fa good scum candidate.

[Guardian]

yos came off like town in our discussions, though he typed way too carefully... i think he is town but really scared about it.

[Guardian]

otm also likely town. dont lynch kinetic or otm or you suck.

[Guardian]

hmm. thats about all i have to say. dont miss lynches, read these last few posts of mine, and good luck. we need it, two mislynches and one kill.

[Guardian]

ebwop: and switch your vote and dont lynch me, put people are idiots and never do such things in these scenarios. oh well.

I AM TOWN. bye as soon as someone makes a long "oh hemust be scum" post, and hammers.

[Guardian]

oh, and really, trust my reads. i dont know who is scum, but seriously otm and kinetic are prolly town. UA is likely town too, maybe not though, per what I just thought of, and he was so sincere. whichever latecomer came first is prolly town. if that was albert, then so be it. think about it.

[Guardian]

and yeah don't lynch me, I am town. .

I am not lying about this. Like... On my honor, no lies, I am town. .

FA could be town too though. I just know I'm town, and don't know his alignment.

Just to annoy PJ:

I am town. I am town. I am town. I am town. I am town. I am town. I am town. I am town.

Later

[Guardian]

unvote: FA vote: Albert

I don't really buy it... but he could be scum. He will be just as a red herring as me if he isn't scum tomorrow, so...

I would rather get numbers for FA, still, though .

[Guardian]

also, a great question to ask those who think I'm scum -- what pairings (with me) make any sense? I just don't see/hear/feel any, so .

[Guardian]

Yeah, FA is scummier than Albert imo. Ah, well. I'll be checking back to see if my vote is needed elsewhere (or even on myself at the end of the hour, if anyone notifies me of when that is (yos, you can prod me ))

we need a lynch by whenever hour 8 is over.

[Guardian]

blatant misunderstanding/misinterpreation^


............ it is preferable for a non me lynch. everyone else might be scum. I am not.........

my willingness to self hammer is because we NEED a lynch to preserve our lynches. not using a lynch by the end of the hour is really really stupid.

[Guardian]

yos, at worst, I will self hammer before I go to bed, i'll be up til 1:30. we need a lynch badly.

[Guardian]

Guardian: At the beginning of day 1 you voted for OTM (after proclaiming him town day 0) for ... supporting your bid for Director because you felt that he was only doing so in order to get appointed to crypto. You continued to say you were suspicious of him within your next few posts, then you made this post. How did OTM suddenly become not a priority?

Ok, don't expect externally "good" thinking, but as far as I can remember my internally consistent thinking was as follows:

I went to the beach and a lot of pages happened before I came back in, and I very, very foolishly tried to get by without a careful re-read at that time. OTM seemed at least in skimming that he was at least trying to help out, and had legitimate reasons behind his actions. It is odd that he is defending me now and that he voted me earlier in the day, but it *seems* like his actions are making sense and trying to help the town. If that is actually true, I dunno. Spambot seemed like he had been lurking and others were suspicious of him for that, so I voted him.

Later, on the same page, then people asked me questions that I obviously hadn't read in enough detail so I unvoted. I know that looked bad, but I figured I really had goofed and needed to re-read.

My main reason for undoing suspicion of OTM was that OTM actually explained how he wasn't trying to exploit coming in last, and that his reasons for me as director were legitimate, and again while not all his reads were great (heck knows all mine are not in this game) he seemed to at least have been trying to be helpful.

[Guardian]

Yos, if you have anything you want to ask me or whatnot, go ahead. I am available for an office session .



Albert and FA could be scum, I prefer an FA lynch, and will be willing to switch my vote at deadline to cause a lynch (even if it is mislynching me -- I think we need a lynch that badly).

So if it is near deadline and you are like hmm, well FA has only 4 votes, but I prefer him: no worries, I will be there to hammer.

[Guardian]

yos, want to grill me in your office? D:. don't lynch me .

lynch FA. or albert, but preferably FA .

[Guardian]

yos, want to grill me in your office? D:. don't lynch me .

lynch FA. or albert, but preferably FA .

Guardian, why aren't you voting FA ?

because if any of the latecomers is scum, it would be you, and people were highly rejecting a FA wagon at the time and wanting a Albert one.

FA is my preference though. But truly, Albert, I would be willing to lynch you at deadline =x. If one of the latecomers is scum I suspect that you are.


I will be here at deadline, no worries. I am honestly and openly willing to assist in lynching either of you.... or myself.


later Albert. Hope you are still in the game tomorrow morning if you're town .

[Guardian]

why albert over OTM and UA -- I explained earlier.

He came in the middle after otm, maybe to look realistic. UA was way sincere, otm i get a town vibe.

Also, all this about the private convo and wanting to look townie when Yos died strikes me totally the wrong way.

Weird attitude as compared to other games, too.

I think he is only slightly better than random though. FA i like better as scum.

[Guardian]

Of that which I'm comfortable with everybody knowing:

Pooky has clarified that he personally determined the location of the nuke - not the scum. He also clarified that it could be at a place like Foggy Bottom - one of the 'non-buildings' on the map. So there are more than 23 possible places for the nuke.

Wanted to point out that I predicted this -- some random warehouse. Random investigating is pointless.

lynch scum =O. like FA ?

[Guardian]

UA, feel free to vote him, I will be up another hour and will hammer -- ibaesha said she will be back and I would love for her to take a definitive stance on which of the three would be better before the alignment is revealed, though.

So, I am willing to vote now if you are going to be up for an hour, especially because that gets me exactly what I want -- a FA lynch and a non-me lynch -- but I would like to see where ibaesha (and PJ and Yos) would end with their vote. I want them to take a stand. Makes sense?

[Guardian]

Erm, respond to my post UA?

[Guardian]

Heh, hammering is awesome, but don't you agree that there are many benefits of seeing where these three players would come down?

I am going to feel like an idiot if they come and mislynch me because of me not voting and letting you hammer, but I feel that it is

vey

important for everyone to take a stand on the wagons -- we need an opinion history and a voting history, especially from those 3 players since they are so good at mafia, and us ending the day without giving them an hour to come and put their thoughts in destroys that.

[Guardian]

That being said, if you are signing off, I encourage you to vote FA, since his lynch is better than Albert's imho.

[Guardian]

To provide flexibility -- it seemed that there was no support for FA just a few irl hours ago, and I wanted to make it seem like some non-me lynch was possible.

Also, it is there to force people to come back and take stands on who should be lynched -- I *don't* want a hammer to occur until it *is* deadline or until everyone has said something about the wagons.

And we will be cutting it "too" close, but I will vote before deadline.

Unvote: Albert

[Guardian]

I will vote at like 1:25, chill out, I'm not an idiot.

You, ibby, and pj, need to say definitively of the 3 final wagons who you prefer lynched and why.

ibby especially, since she promised to do so.

[Guardian]

Pick one of three, and say why: me, albert, UA.

As if you had a chance to hammer all three. And explain why.

[Guardian]

FA* not UA. obv.

[Guardian]

I'm not an idiot.

Really? You had me fooled.

<3. I've really played that badly eh? .

[Guardian]

I think I've been jumpy and made spammy posts. That is indicative of me making jumpy and spammy posts, not me being an idiot =o. Whatever.

[Guardian]

But I'm not scum...

heh

OK, that is what I wanted, Ideally we will get that from Pooky and Ibaesha too, and even more ideally we get that with FA still getting lynched at the end of it -- if I get lynched or Albert gets lynched and turns up town after I gave away the chance to lynch FA, I will be very, very sad.



However, it IS 6 to lynch by the way, 10 alive, check the Opening Post.

[Guardian]

Eh, seeing as it is six to lynch and I don't want to take the risk of getting distracted or w/e

vote: FrozenAtlantic

. I definitely still

do

want to hear from PJ and Yos before anyone hammers though.

[Guardian]

shoot I'm tired. pj and ibby.

i might go to sleep...

[Guardian]

Ibby awesome, just the kind of record I was hoping to see.

PJ, your thoughts

before

a lynch would be great -- otherwise I assume you would ideally go for Albert?

ah damn it UA lol.

[Guardian]

You knew it was gonna happen before it happened. besides, we got 10 minutes left and no one else is here. What could've happened?

nah I don't fault you for it, it made sure something happened.

PJ, you have time before the lynch scene comes for a simple name you would have picked (Albert I assume).

If FA is scum that is awesome!

[Guardian]

Awesome again, thanks for leaving the record.

*waits for lynch scene*

[Guardian]

Curious -- haven't you two talked for like... hours and hours upon end? What have you talked about?

[Guardian]

Not that I recall -- just it is bugging me a little bit that you replace in and then talk with Yos2 for hours and hours -- theoretically it could be scum planning, that's all.

[Guardian]

@Ibby I know him a little. I wish I knew him better he seems cool .


@mod OMG. I want to know his alignment...

@all In any case, after it is posted, see you in a few days, as much as I dread it... I *gulp* promise to do a full re-read then. And do actual good analysis, if I have time. You will be surprised if I have the time to do it .

[Guardian]

Yos, all we did was do each other's hair. I thought we were bffs.

[Guardian]

=( no fair.

[Guardian]

DAMN. There is a distinct possibility that all three wagons were town though .

Find some scum guys .

[Guardian]

=O.

GoGo jelly ranger!

OTM, you lied to me? . You said you were town .

[Guardian]

Damnit OTM was the only person that was guaranteed town in all this mess....goddamnit.

That's what I had thought too.

Kinetic, you're going to get screwed here too if you just follow your "gut".

PJ, at least you could have let OTM explain that.... Or not, w/e.... .

I was too tired to think clearly/point this out, but I figured you -- AND Yos, who you had been conniving with -- had wondered if he had queued up his actions........................

Gah, that sucks a lot....

[Guardian]

Hi. I'm back from vacation. I owe this game a re-read badly.

I pondered this game in my car trip (:oops:) and from what I remembered I can't envision a scum team without Spambot on it. It is possible but... I doubt it.

PJ, I have flip flopped all game -- I don't know for certain who the scum are. But in that string of "spammy useless" posts when I thought I was going to be hammered I think I made it very clear I thought OTM was town.

Yeah, I said something like go jelly! when you were going to vig him, but I assumed your tracking of his location to you seemed like a guilty cop result -- that you were sure he couldn't have done what he'd done and been a townie.


Some simple game theory things:
We must lynch hour 11, otherwise if either Field Agent is scum the scum can kill and assasinate.

I assume there are 3 scum in the game. 2 scum and 10 townies seems like overkill, especially with the stacked power roles in this game.

That means we are at lylo. That also means that with 5 to lynch, unless the scum decide to bus here we need all 5 townies on a scum lynching wagon for it to work.

Lastly, I think that if we decide Yos is scum we need to lynch him hour 11, and not later. I don't think he is particularly likely to be scum, and I don't think we should lynch him. But since, as director, he can screw us over all kinds of ways at lylo, I am going to be quasi assuming that Yos is town if we lynch non-Yos scum and don't get hosed. Of all these "game theory things" I am mentioning, I am least certain about this, but this made a lot of sense to me when I was thinking about the game...

Reasons why I think Spambot is scum and my stance on others (and who knows, maybe a complete change of mind) will come when I get a chance to re-read the game.

[Guardian]

I just got back from vacation with no internet. Do you want me to say that I finished the re-read?

It definitely objectively sounds like I am parroting you about Spambot. My reasons are similar to yours, I think, though I shall have to (you guessed it) re-read your posts to be sure of that. .

I am not sure if Yos is scum, I am leaning slightly that he is town. It think if he is scum, though, he could find a way to screw us over in lylo if we don't lynch him right now, so if we don't -- and I don't think we will/should -- then I think playing under the assumption that he is town has some merit.

[Guardian]

Within 48 hours I will have the thread read and some comments for you all.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I fully own up to that my play up to this point has been sub par. Not for lack of trying mind, but for lack of... "focus"? And yeah, townie lynchbait is me .


Eh, in any event, I have every intention of reading the thread from start to finish with some degree of commenting in the next day or two....

I am not trying to say what the town wants to hear, and I don't understand where you are getting that notion from. My opinions on the lynches? Or me putting forth the game-theory that I have? ?

[Guardian]

Tonight, barring unforeseen circumstances, I am going to donate a few hours of my life to reading the game.

I don't see how procrastinating is a scum tell, but whatever, I will be re-reading.

[Guardian]

Hi. Reading. I will reference/quote posts as I re-read, and will re-read until dinnertime (could be 5 minutes, so ) I will then continue re-reading from dinnertime ending until 9 (last comic standing starts). I will then read from the end of LCS until I stop re-reading.

Suspicions at the beginning, from scum to town:
Spambot
Albert
UA
Ibaesha
Kinetic
Yos
PJ

The above does not include me thinking through the consequences of the "investigation".

Baring the investigation, if I somehow conclude that Spambot is not the correct play, I will be surprised.

---

Yos has helpful game theory in 9, 11.

---

CTD -> Ibby does in 12

---

27, 28, 29

Spambot makes an odd post, CTD finds him suspicious, so does Xdaamno.

---

I didn't like it then, but Yos made sense in 53 on director theory.

---

Spambot comes off as really pro-town in 58 with his director theory.* *Unless Yos is scum .

---

Korran came about 3 days late in 83, it makes me wonder why no one mentioned this.

---

CTD seems pro-town in 119

I am beginning to feel a CTD-Spambot-Yos2 thing from these early posts, though.

---

Korran in re-read 135 seems to me very much like newb town. Eyceking and Korran --> PJ and Kinetic I think are likely townies. Watch me be wrong about Korran .

---

155 by me is remarkably reflective of my current thoughts on the game in this re-read.

---

160 is a great theory post by CTD.

---

I have hated YB's play in other games (and other places in this game), but he made a lot of sense in 163 .

---

164 Spambot feels townlike, his assessments are reasonable.

---

Yeah, Albert UA me OTM YB Korran were/are town.

The lurkers coming in reminds me of my thoughts on this and how correct I have been so far. Korran UA and Albert are still up in the air... but I really don't want them gone today.

---

202 Yos expresses his distrust of the latecoming = town. It was right on OTM, it is right on me, I suspect that it is at least right on one of Albert/UA and probably both...

---

The three pages seem like a lot of noise to me...275 screams newbie town from Korran. The only way Spambot it scum imo is if Ibby is scum with him.

---

Thank god, dinnertime. I've spent like an hour on this so far, and I hate it.

SOS:
Spambot - but this requires CTD/Ibby scum... or Korran scum!?!? .
Yos
Ibby
Albert
UA
PJ
Kinetic

Right now I would say the top three are scum. I will continue reading in a bit...

[Guardian]

mmmmk I have 15 minutes until Last Comic Standing comes on, hopefully I can knock out a few pages by then. Re-reading this game makes me want to shoot myself in the face . Would I be a bad person if I just gave up re-reading and voted Spambot? .

My suspicion list can be seen in my immediately preceding post, I will start from 276 onward.

---

323 by Spambot feels townlike .

---

373 by Spambot feels townlike, and he and OTM cast doubt on Eyceking = PJ.

---

..... I've read through 425. Nothing really sticks out at me. Spambot's recent actions seem scummy, but not so much his early ones. I really don't know what to think at this point. I will try to continue in an hour... but it is painful .

for completeness, this is how I feel at this point in the re-read:

yos
spambot
ctd-> ibby
eyceking -> PJ
albert
korran -> kinetic
UA

[Guardian]

!VC? !time left?

I dread returning to doing this...

[Guardian]

Yeah, maybe I'll do some tomorrow, right now I am really not into it.

A votecount and how much time remains in the 11th hour would be great...

FOS: Spambot

.

[Guardian]

Hm. -3 (assuming there are 3 scum) means the scum can quicklynch in this scenario if two townies get on the wagon of a townie...

Thanks Pooky .

[Guardian]

Pooky

:
Yos still has a carryover vote on Guardian that he never unvoted.
UA voted for Guardian on post #1487

Guardian is at -1

Almost seems like you are begging for a quick hammer. Scum? Unvote if not, let's use the three days, eh?

[Guardian]

lol, OK, so Kinetic scum. One more scum signs on and hammers, and its game. Thanks for modding Pooky -- it

should

have been really fun . If anyone on my wagon is town and you read this post, unvote me now. You can always vote me again later...

At least I wouldn't have to re-read...

[Guardian]

Hm yeah, from vote analysis and Kinetic's post alone, I'm guessing Kinetic and Spambot and XXX are scum. If UA isn't that last one and UA doesn't unvote, then .

[Guardian]

Ah, and Yosarian. Yeah, there are definitely scum on my wagon, but I don't think all three, and if Kinetic is town and doesn't unvote, well thanks for losing the game .

[Guardian]

Really, if anyone on my wagon posts and doesn't unvote, thanks for a) being scum, or b) losing us the game.

Let's snatch victory from the jaws of defeat here.

[Guardian]

vote: Kinetic

because despite everything, his recent behavior is inexplicable for a townie to do and is obviously scum.



Guess: UA & Yos are town, Kinetic & Spambot & Ibby scum?

This sucks .

[Guardian]

Yeah, I will commence the last 2/3 of the re-read and finish re-reading tomorrow if I am not quick hammered tonight. I'm not staying up reading this game for three hours to get hammered at the end of it.

I am mid-re-read, and you can see my conclusions so far....

Stop mislynching me...

[Guardian]

If you are town, then maybe Ibaesha faked them. Why not "give me three days to squirm". Not using the time available to us is a bad decision. Leaving a townie at lynch -1 is a

really

bad decision.

I am squirming because I don't want to lose the game....

[Guardian]

And seriously, if they weren't faked, that means Spambot town and you and Ibby likely town.

I think PJ and Albert are both likely town.

That leaves what, Yosarain2 and UA as scum???

Either way, I think there are scum on my wagon.... If you're not one please get off.

[Guardian]

I'm just pointing out how if the results were not faked, it would imply absurdity.

I think you are town... don't mislynch me .

[Guardian]

Gah. It seems neither of you are going to unvote. I have a hard time believing that 3 of the 4 on my wagon are scum -- if everyone not on the wagon posts and I am not quickhammered, I will be very surprised.




To an extent I am sorry for being scummy and being the final mislynch of the game. I definitely don't deserve an award for great play here, but on the other hand there are some things about this game that are good... And also, my play hasn't been great, but you can not trust my reads or think I am playing badly, but that doesn't mean I am scum. I have "squirmed" twice now because I'd not like to lose. Whatever.



Two lessons mainly. The first is that now I know if I am not having fun in a game, I am going to replace out

immediately

. This game has sucked for me for most of the game (ie I have had no fun) and I've been convinced like three times not to replace. There is no dishonor in needing a replacement, and I should have realized that.

This is not to say that anyone else in the game (or Pooky) is at fault -- but I did not enjoy this game at all, really. It was a chore, not a pleasure to play. The game was well designed and the players and replacements are not bad, and I would not be unwilling to play with any of you or in a game run by Pooky in the future.


That being said, I've also learned that as a mod, one should never comment on the play of the players until the game is over. I just got yelled at by Pooky for bad play and how I should be up til dawn re-reading the game and being townlike, and how I should have re-read much much earlier, and honestly, it is really, really hard to have the motivation to even post this after being criticized by the mod of the game. Like I said, my play hasn't been

excellent

good, but there is only so much ridicule one person can take and still be motivated to play in a game.

I am so annoyed at this game, half those dead I was sure were town, and got killed anyways, I still have no great idea who the actual scum are, gah.. Preemptively, I congratulate the scum -- well done here.


My final guess is Ibby Spambot and Kinetic, but that could be 180 degrees off.

Later.

[Guardian]

1) you're already voting me.
2) I am willing to read.
3) I am not done with my read and maybe I'll find you town after I finish it. I don't think I'll ever get the chance though.

[Guardian]

I am sorry for being "a bother". I don't react well under pressure especially when I think the suspicion on me is my fault and we're at lylo. Will try to improve this if Albert doesn't come and hammer, which

does

seem to be unlikely.

If Albert comes and doesn't hammer, then indeed 3/4 of my wagon is scum. I must say I am surprised Ibby isn't scum and didn't hammer.


From my perspective, PJ and Ibby are almost definitely town at this point, though, simply from their lack of hammering. I don't think anyone would deny that we are at LYLO and that if I am not scum then scum would hammer me as soon as they posted.

I do think we should lynch hour 11 though, or that everyone should unvote -- otherwise the scum could kill, and then there would be 4 votes on me and 7 alive, and I would instantly be lynched. So in that sense, lynching this hour is imperative. If three scum ended up on my wagon, I again am indeed surprised -- before Ibby and PJ posted (2/3 of the possibles) I was pretty certain the game was about to end.

I cautiously am optimistic about Albert posting and not hammering. Later.

[Guardian]

Ibby -- yeah, that is true. It would have to be a townie who unvoted me, though, and I am just reluctant to take someone at their word for that.

I am actually intrigued now -- if Albert shows up before Yos2 (or if Yos2 shows up and doesn't unvote), and Albert doesn't hammer me, I will pretty much know the exact scum group (give or take 1 person - UA or Yos2), and will have an opportunity to salvage this game in a big way.

I am actually kind of hoping that happens -- if I can do re-reads pretty much *knowing* who the scum are and knowing exactly what my "job" for the rest of the game is (convince everyone that I am, indeed, not scum, and that Kinetic and Spambot are), that would be fantastic.


That being said, it occurs to me - Yosarian2, assuming Albert shows up and doesn't hammer, I implore you to make the following personnel changes:

Albert or PJ --> FBI agent.
We need another intel role, and I'm sure one of them would be acceptable to you.
UA --> Cryptographer.
UA or you would be the last available possible "non-scum" of the four currently on my wagon and having UA there would give Ibby someone who at least potentially would not be falsifying results.

I would recommend to whichever of Albert or PJ is *not* assigned to FBI agent to randomly protect either the FBI agent or Ibby, to protect our investigation results.


Yos2, if you (or anyone else) come and decide to unvote before Albert shows up, I recommend the above except that Albert should remain as Field Agent with PJ as FBI Agent, and that Albert should 100% be protecting PJ -- it takes the scum WIFOM out of the scenario, but it gives us an almost guaranteed investigation, which would be crucial at this point.

In a sentence: PJ should be moved to the FBI agent role, immediately.


I have some work stuff to do today (part time, on my own time) but I am actually getting hopeful/enthusiastic about this game -- for the first time in a long time. If Albert comes and doesn't hammer me, I almost look forward to finishing the re-read.

Even though it would make things "less certain" for me if I don't get to see Albert "not hammer' I again implore anyone who is town who is voting me to unvote.

[Guardian]

Sweetness!

From my POV, it is definitely most logical for there to be 3 scum, and that means that 3/4 scum are on my wagon.

Albert, Ibby, and PJ are all beyond a doubt town.

Of the 4 on the wagon, if three are scum, Kinetic is the

logical

play for today. Here is why:

If Spambot is scum, Kinetic must also be scum, since Ibby is town and investigated Spambot, and Kinetic faked an innocent result.
If Spambot is town, Kinetic must still be scum, since 3 of Kinetic, Spambot, Yos, and UA must be scum.

What's even better is that if there are somehow (imo very, very remote possibility) two scum only, if Kinetic shows up town then Spambot is confirmed and Yos and UA are the two scum.



Therefore, no matter what, by pure logic, Kinetic must be scum/is the play for today.

The only wrench in the machinery is that you all don't know for certain I am town, though Albert and Ibby seem pretty convinced, thank goodness. PJ seems convinced but very annoyed with me (and not with bad reasons ), and whoever is currently voting me is most certainly not convinced....


I want to hear from Yos about moving those positions around, and hear his stance on me at this point, as he is the only one so far to not have refused to unvote me.


I ask of Albert, Ibby, and PJ, what do you want from me at this point? Shall I continue my re-read and looks for evidence of Korran/Kinetic and Spambot and UA, and Yos being scum? Shall I explain my logic better? What is our course of action?


Perhaps most importantly, do you agree that (if I am town) Kinetic is the obvious play per my above logic?



I know, by pure voting logic, that you three are town, and also know by pure logic that the four on my wagon are not very trustable as they are all more likely than not to be scum....

I am actually excited now. Let's win this!

[Guardian]

Yos, I'm going to go ahead and say that if you are town you are very, very wrong, and if you are scum you are trying to win the game right here.

I tend to believe the latter, I am thinking UA is the wayward soul we need to convince, and that all 3 latecomers and me turned out to be town. I remember earlier how you were all "I don't think we can trust those late-comers at all. Unreliable tell. Etc".


Albert and I are not scum together, I am not scum, Albert therefore can't be scum... yeah.

Albert, innovative thinking, as that would prove I am not scum unless we are scum together -- frankly I am surprised at how sure you are of me being town that you would say that -- and thanks and good read, since I am.

I am about half done with my meat world work for today -- there is more to come definitely, again, I'd very much like to hear from PJ and Ibby.

[Guardian]

Yos & others -- what do you want my argument to be? I know the truth, how do you want me to convince you of it? Literally -- we have less than 2 days -- and I need to convince every single other townie that Kinetic is the play. What do you want?

Also, Ibby and PJ may not be as sure as Albert, and I doubt the scum would be willing to accommodate us, but we could move the wagon to Albert and no hammer would occur, and then move it to PJ and Ibby and no hammer would occur. That would prove Albert-me-PJ-Ibby scum, or all of us as town .

[Guardian]

Notice the . I know there is no way that's happening -- but it *is* a logical extension of Albert's plan...

Gah, I just gave three scum great fodder.

[Guardian]

Look, I am not suggesting we actually do that. But those three are confirmed town to me. And that scenario is a logical extension of Albert's scenario, that HE, not I, proposed.

Yos2, I really hope you are with Kinetic and Spambot and UA is more reasonable, because if you are town and you are going to be that hard to convince we're fucked.

[Guardian]

Also, Yos, what do you think of my proposed role changes. Do you propose that Ibby PJ and Albert are ALL scum with me? Since they have all not hammered me. PJ should definitely be moving to FBI.

[Guardian]

^scum. (pointed at Yos)

UA is town, and is the person we have to convince the most, I think. Just wow if we snatch victory from the jaws of defeat here...


Albert, UA, PJ, Ibby -- y'all are town (maybe not UA but I think so). The rest of you are scum. Town, what is our plan here? And is there anything specific you want from me?


Ibby -- that is why I want UA to crypto -- one of spambot and kinetic can go to SIA, but we need a townie at crypto, so the investigations are *not* useless. PJ should go to FBI, since FBI actions are self contained.

[Guardian]

ibaesha -- I agree that it is *possible* that Yosarian2 is town. I doubt it because of his recent attitude, but it is possible. He is overly demanding in what he wants of me to change his mind, and I think my suggestions for the people to switch into the roles I suggested are also obviously the right decisions and he is disregarding them.



I think the (easier?) thing for me to argue for is that I am town -- and I don't mean me just saying it, I mean me going back and analyzing my own posts and showing why my behavior is consistent with me being town.

I don't think anyone disagrees that if I am town, then Ibby, Albert, and PJ MUST also be town. In the past, some people have berated me and said that with no investigation, only scumhunting is valuable and trying to argue for someone being townie is ridiculous. I disagree wholeheartedly -- I think it is just as legitimate to argue for my likely towness, and look at the logical conclusions that that implies.

So, unless I hear great contrast otherwise, I plan to re-start my pbpa with a force with the main focus being myself, and I plan to explain my actions and demonstrate how they are consistent with my being town.


If I can persuade you that I am town, that leads to Me, Albert, Ibby, and PJ being town.

With four townies, all the scum have to be on my wagon. As such, Kinetic is the obvious play, because if there are two scum and he is town, we win, and if there are three scum he logically *has* to be one of them as I demonstrated earlier.

Preemptively -- I got mislynched at endgame (having identified both remaining scum, might I add) for trying to explain something similar to this in AM Mafia (moded by Skruffs). Check out my wiki page if you don't believe me.

Does this make sense to everyone? (I care much less about Yos's opinion, to be honest, but he *could* be the last town, so why not...) I am especially interested in PJ Albert and Ibby's thoughts -- this does make sense I believe, and I will re-start the re-read with myself as the main target if you agree.