Mini 461 "24" Game Over. Roll Credits

[Xdaamno]

I haven't recieved my role yet :O

Kidding...

[Xdaamno]

Weird post, Spambot. Looks like backseat driving; which would implicate Yos as terrorist, which I hope he isn't.

I checked this only an hour ago, and there were like 2 posts

I'll go read up on the rest soon.

[Xdaamno]

Yeah, I've noticed a few posts about my first comment on page 1 (I think), and I meant since he didn't give the townie roles out yet, I was accidently confirming myself as town; then added 'I'm kidding' so I don't cause any confusion.

Just finishing reading this, and I strongely disagree with giving the most intelligent player the lead role. I suggest we give it to the

newest/worst

, but easiest to read player, so that rather than if they were scum them manipulating us, we come to a group decision and make that player do what we want. It'll be hard for them as scum to work independantly, since they'll be a newbie. It's much safer to make this a group decision than a decision for a single guy. Scum trying to manipulate a weak leader should be rooted out by the more intelligent players here, or the group as a whole.

Similarily, I say we give the intelligent players the roles least useful to the terrorists and most useful to the town so they can't screw us over that bad if they're scum.

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP: And the town the most powerful/the rest of the roles, so that we'll get some of the power ones as pro-town, and the rest of the power-scum will be newbish and easy to root out.

Though I agree using the cop is a little too risky. Prehaps we could just give a single cop to the one player we feel is the most pro-town... but then they'd be 'Night' killed, assumingly. Tough situation.

[Xdaamno]

Also, no one really answered my thoughts about how having an easier to read and more likely to work with the town director is safer. I see myself, YB, UA, and possibly some other people as more likely to do that than Ctd, Yos, and Cdb.

Meh, Id probably be a good Deputy director, I dont want to be the head Director, too much power, and everyone will blame me if somehting goes wrong :p

This sounds a little bit off to me. If the director dies, you're going to take that responsibility and still be blamed if anything goes wrong. The responsibilities are (almost) just as important, but they come at different times in the game.

[Xdaamno]

Yeah, I've noticed a few posts about my first comment on page 1 (I think), and I meant since he didn't give the townie roles out yet, I was accidently confirming myself as town; then added 'I'm kidding' so I don't cause any confusion.

Just finishing reading this, and I strongely disagree with giving the most intelligent player the lead role. I suggest we give it to the

newest/worst

, but easiest to read player, so that rather than if they were scum them manipulating us, we come to a group decision and make that player do what we want. It'll be hard for them as scum to work independantly, since they'll be a newbie. It's much safer to make this a group decision than a decision for a single guy. Scum trying to manipulate a weak leader should be rooted out by the more intelligent players here, or the group as a whole.

Similarily, I say we give the intelligent players the roles least useful to the terrorists and most useful to the town so they can't screw us over that bad if they're scum.

The biggest problem with that line of thinking is that if we give the "newest/worst" people all the most "important" roles, then even if they are town they're more likely to make bad decisions. This is especally true with roles like crypto and the information roles and the director role; who to investigate, when to reveal information, and who to trust with vital roles are not necessarally choices we want our "worst" players to be making.

We could agree that everyone should relay information EXACTLY as how they recieved it, assuming they're newbies. Scum should be easier to pick out, and if newbies were doing the gambits they'd tend to be less succesful than a pro doing it.

I'm open-minded about all this, and I'm willing to change my position at the moment, but that's how I see what we should do currently.

[Xdaamno]

Also crypto must be sent directly to the crypto guys, you can't have classified stuff just lying around waiting to be decrypted because it would be incredibly easy for a technically competent scum to change the content of the message. Messages must be transferred directly to a cryptographer.

Can you send the message to multiple cryptographers?

[Xdaamno]

True, but if you actually watch the show, the director usually ends up dead or fired. (Tony, Bill, Milo claiming to be director)

I don't get it... that would mean you'd be replaced into the position quickly, and you'd have the possiblity of messing up stuff earlier, which is what you're trying to avoid... or am I getting it wrong?

[Xdaamno]

True, but if you actually watch the show, the director usually ends up dead or fired. (Tony, Bill, Milo claiming to be director)

I don't get it... that would mean you'd be replaced into the position quickly, and you'd have the possiblity of messing up stuff earlier, which is what you're trying to avoid... or am I getting it wrong?

Uh. O.O Maybe Id be better off as a Liason or a Field Agent.

Yeah, those guys look like Jack-Of-All-Trades, really. We'll have to review each one of those individually and see the pros and cons.

[Xdaamno]

I don't think newer players are more likely to work with town, just easier to read if they slip up as scum. My sentence was confusing.

I do agree that we need someone competent as director, but again, I greatly fear us getting a very competent scum director who with strategic role assignments wins the game for the scum.

You haven't said why you agree with having someone compitent.

Also, what roles look like they are most likely kill targets? Crypto? Director? Whatever the case is, we don't want to put experienced people there, as it would give scum even more incentive to kill off better town players.

Agreed.

Yos, yes I know 1 hour = 3 life days. Pooky said this in the queue, I got it...
We can start with less crypto because we will probably be getting less crypto info in the beginning; we could have two extra liaisons doing tasks for the first few hours and then switch them to crypto.

And Yos, we may disagree on who is easy to read/not, but what in and of itself is fishy about putting someone easy to read as director and lynching them if they seem scummy? We definitely don't want a scum director, so...

I was thinking maybe we should make everyone relay info exactly

and

immediatly, which would solve the problem, I think. Anybody who dosen't do that (Without a very good reason we agree with) would be scum.

The idea is to have the less-experienced players with the purpose of information drones, and we'll simply be able to pick out the liars, since hopefully newbie scum can't lie too well. Plus having experienced players with a powerful role is just begging to be NKed.

[Xdaamno]

Yoghurt, for now I think we should theorize on gameplay... you're jumping into the thick of things qute fast.

And I seriously disagree with your second paragraph, Yoghurt. You're practically saying bodyguards aren't useful. It's in no way a free kill for the terrorists; why would you think that? We save a player and lose a different one, they're not getting any more kills. They can't kill again until after the time limit, even if we save with bodyguard.

Though I was thinking about maybe some bodyguards might be protecting less powerful players; since they're jack-of-all-trades themselves, usually.

[Xdaamno]

Obviously we need a counter intelligence agent. It seems like the most powerful role.

It's also the role most powerful in the hands of intelligent scum. I suggest we once again, give it to a newbie, because scum trying to lie as cop is going to leave some large footprints. There's still the problem of

when

the cop reveals information, but this'd really only apply in games where we don't all know who he is. Whether he reveals it or not, he's still a nightkill target, so I suggest we 'make' him reveal it immediatly, and let us be up-to-date.

Alright, I think I get this? It's definitely different is what it is. Anyway...

In case anybody is wondering this is because the general consensus is that he is the strongest player. I have no idea having very little experience and I'm willing to go with what the majority feel is in their best interest. I'm willing to take the risk that he might be scum in the hope of a bigger pay off that he is a strong pro-town leader.

I don't like your sheep-ness here; many scum do this to pass the blame if something goes wrong. You should make your own mind up

I'm not saying who I'd like to be director at this point... because I haven't decided.

[Xdaamno]

It's also the role most powerful in the hands of intelligent scum.

Interesting. Why do you say that? Scum very rarely try to lie and fake cop results, although this setup does raise the risk a bt, because we won't know if it was the cop or the crypto messing with us. Still and all, it'd be a huge risk for either of them to flat out lie about cop results; I'm be more worried about a scum crypto messing with us in more subtle ways.

Haven't thought about it much, but in the hands of clever scum we could be screwed.

I didn't know cryptos got their results. In the case, I'd like to once again

ask the mod whether information can be sent to multiple cryptos

.

I suggest we once again, give it to a newbie, because scum trying to lie as cop is going to leave some large footprints. There's still the problem of

when

the cop reveals information, but this'd really only apply in games where we don't all know who he is.

I believe it's not the cop who would have that choice, it's the crypto who would decode the info and get the result. And if we get a confirmed innocent, we woudln't necessarally want the crypto to say that right away, because then the confirmed innocent would just get killed. It's better for the town to reveal confirmed innocents as late as possible, either when they would otherwise be lynched or in as close to an endgame situation as is practical, the information is just more useful then.

Bleh. Once again, didn't know it was sent to cryptos. Because the cop dosen't see the result (But can he send to cryptos differently), I assume it's fine to have him.

I was thinking, in fact, that that's something the director's ability to talk in private could be useful for; if a crypto gets a confirmed innocent, he tells the director rather then telling the whole town, that way the information isn't lost unless both the crypto and the director get killed, and it'd make it harder for a scum crypto to hold back information then him just not telling anyone at all.

Actually, how about this: We choose the three most pro-town players as cryptos, then every time they get a result they

all

give it to the director without telling anyone else, assuming we can send to multiple cryptos. He'll reveal the results, and we might be able to root out scum cryptos, since they're results will conflict.

If there's 2 scum, and we lynch the fake townie, we're in a bad position with no cryptos, but since the townie will be revealed at death, we'll have caught two more scum.

[Xdaamno]

Not saying I don't agree with you, but... you're accusing Yos

and yourself

of being scum? You've both made the exact same 'mistake', for want of a better word.

[Xdaamno]

Are you town, Yos?

lol XD

[Xdaamno]

Yos, you seem scummy, trying to post a lot and throw around a lot of good ideas to get the nomination. If you are town, though I would like to be director myself, I would be happy with you being director.

Are you town, Yos?

Heh. Yes, I'm town.

As for the "campaigning for director" thing; well, I always tend to run for "mayor" ish roles when pro-town, because I trust myself more then someone else, if that makes any sense. I can show you some examples if you want. I also always love to try and figure out the best pro-town stratagy of how to use special rules and roles in theme games; I just have a lot of fun doing that.

That being said, I don't really care if I am director or not, so long as whoever does become director is willing to listen to my ideas. I'd like to be, sure, but if you guys for whatever reason distrust me, you should pick someone else; if nothing else, it would be incredibly difficult for me to try and plan stratagy and move people around into different roles and all that while half the town is trying to lynch me. If you guys decide you don't want me as director, I'd suggest CrashTextDummies, he seems to have a pretty good understanding of how to use the different roles and such, and the way he's thinking about stuff gives me a good vibe about him.

Yeah, I was thinking about CTD myself

IGMEOY guardian, really. Just... strange vibes.

[Xdaamno]

No, it's nothing to do with wanting to be director.

I'm not saying anything more, just IGMEOY.

[Xdaamno]

Guardian, OMGUS is baaaad

It's just all your posts seem to be atleast slightly fishy, but I can't really pin it on anything.

[Xdaamno]

Sure, it sounds like passing the blame to you. For me going with what the larger group wants would be indicative of the town at least having some sort of presence in the consensus and minimising the chances of a scum being the chosen candidate. Hopefully. Like I said - I'm taking the risk in the hope of a bigger pay off. I don't know how well you know Yos and their play - do you think it's worth the risk?

I didn't mean passing it to me, I meant passing it to the people who started the yos wagon if it goes wrong.

I guess I'm up for Yos as director, he seems smart enough, but we'll definatly need to keep an eye on him.

[Xdaamno]

Guardian, OMGUS is baaaad

It's just all your posts seem to be atleast slightly fishy, but I can't really pin it on anything.

Is logic also bad? Because my comments were not just OMGUS, I really think you are backtracking here by saying that it has nothing to do with being director when the whole logic line had everything to do with campaigning to be director.

Yeah, but I had this 'suspiscion' before the director thingy even came up. It's just IGMEOY, really.

[Xdaamno]

Care to give a reason?

[Xdaamno]

I don't know I just feel like guardian should!!!

Sounds weak.

FOS: Korran

[Xdaamno]

Well you are the only person I have seen before so thats why I chose you and reading through the posts made you seem like a great leader.

Yeah, this is definatly off. Seeing only one person on the site is rare enough, but this is exactly the opposite of my views (And thus by my own views wrong); many of guardian's posts make him seems scummy.

And stuff like 'I don't know I just think he is' isn't going to get you anywhere.

[Xdaamno]

Seeing only one person on the site

from this game

is rare enough

fixed

[Xdaamno]

The former may seem possible, but I assure you that it is not true. I just emanate "good leader" .

What, you expect me to just believe you?

IGMEOY. Especially Korran. I'm not going to let that vote he gave drop, so if I were you, Korran, I'd start providing a convincing argument on why you think Guardian should be director

[Xdaamno]

FINE!!!!UNVOTE!!!!!

I won't choose anyone then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

0_o

Getting newbie town vibes here, but still IGMEOY.

It's kind of pointless to attack players because of stuff like this. I've seen loads of (annoying) people do this kind of thing, turn up town, and cause loads of confusion, which just messes everyone up.

For that reason, I'm going to focus more on guardian.

[Xdaamno]

You have never explained your suspicion of me, just stating that "IGMEOY" for no reason.

Is Yos your scum partner and you want him elected?
And OMGUS for getting someone to unvote me :'(.

The IGMEOY because, as I previously stated, I was getting some unexplaniable scummy vibes, but I didn't want to make a move.

Uhm, no.

... That's the reason you're on the attack?

[Xdaamno]

Uhm, no.

Going to elaborate, actually: you may notice I've never supported an election of either of you IIRC. I certainly don't want Yos elected without hearing more from him. This decision could make/break the game.

[Xdaamno]

Xdaamno - I disagree with most of your strategy suggestions. Don't know yet what to think about that.

I guess that's fine with me, since we're just theorizing at this point.

[Xdaamno]

I'm gonna go all out and say I don't want guardian as director. I just can't trust a guy with such a large campaign XD

Sorry if you're town, guardian.

Personally, I think Crashtext would be a good director from what I've seen so far.

[Xdaamno]

YogurtBandit - You're pushing hard to be a Liason. Care to explain why? Also, what makes you think Guardian's the right choice for Director?

Eh, Seems like a cool position to be in.Guardian is like, cool. I mean, I'd know if he was scum, and he's not scum. I can just tell. We're cool like that. For real. 8)

This kind of thing is why I don't particularly want guardian the the chair...

[Xdaamno]

Meh. I can understand how the connections I am getting between YB and Korran may looks scummy from the outside. I am town though, and I think I would do a good job as director, and from the way they have acted towards me, I am pretty sure YB and Korran are town as well.

Even if I am not elected, I really think YB and Korran are good choices for counterintelligence/FBI liaison, or cryptography experts, because I don't see the way they acted towards me making sense if they are scum. I think that at most one of them is scum, and likely neither of them. No offense you two, I am not sure you would be cut out for the director role, but I think you are likely innocents and would be great to have as cops or crypto.

I want to hear more from CDB, I got really good vibes from just his first post (or two?), better vibes than I am getting from Yos OR Ctd, to be honest, for all their contributions. Xdaamo I am unsure about.

For your second paragraph, that's exlusivly be 'if you were elected'. If you were town, sure, I'd agree with you, but we can't be sure.

And that last sentence is blatantly OMGUS XD

[Xdaamno]

You got my timeline wrong. I said it was IGMEOY and gut feeling before I was as skeptical of you as I am now. The possible connections with K and Yoghurt are mainly what it is now, and it's highly possible atleast one of them is scum, that's all.

It's nto like I'd lynch you yet, it's just that I don't want you as director

[Xdaamno]

All I did is vote for him because he was the only one I sort of knew.I don't know who is the best to be director.to me it could be anyone.

I seriously think you all should stop buggin Korran about this. I mean hes sort of new, And hes just trying to pick a familiar face. Yeah Korran could be scum but Its not likely.

'He's sort of new' isn't a good enough excuse, really.

And what do you mean it's not likely? How do you know he's not likely to be scum? And even so, we can't just assume he's town off the bat.

[Xdaamno]

All I did is vote for him because he was the only one I sort of knew.I don't know who is the best to be director.to me it could be anyone.

I seriously think you all should stop buggin Korran about this. I mean hes sort of new, And hes just trying to pick a familiar face. Yeah Korran could be scum but Its not likely.

'He's sort of new' isn't a good enough excuse, really.

And what do you mean it's not likely? How do you know he's not likely to be scum? And even so, we can't just assume he's town off the bat.

Well, Yeah, but still, you dont pin someone as scum because theyre new.

Similarily, you don't clear someone as scum because they're new. Him being new is irrelevant.

[Xdaamno]

Two days left to elect a director.

Electing Vote: CrashTextDummie

[Xdaamno]

I'm more sure of CTD.

Anyway, take all votes off guardian for the time being

That includes you, Korran. Forgot if your vote is still on him or not.

[Xdaamno]

I'm more sure of CTD.

Anyway, take all votes off guardian for the time being

That includes you, Korran. Forgot if your vote is still on him or not.

I like how you're directing the town, especially Korran, who is new. .

You're taking it too literally. Note the , which is designed to make it less informal and more of an opinionated joke.

I specified Korran because I forgot whether his vote was still on him, and I knew if it was he's probably trying to agree with everyone but keep his vote on you under-the-radar. Korran could of been anyone.

If you overreact, I'll overreact

[Xdaamno]

:\ This game is kinda hosed. Out of me, YB, and Korran, I am sure that no more than 1 is scum, and am almost sure that none is scum. Yet we seem to be the most suspected.

Out of Xdaamno, CTD, and Yos, I suspect that 1 or more is scum, yet somehow they seem to be in the clear. Xdaamno I get the most town read on, but I really dislike how his whole game contributions have been "No, Guardian bad!"

If push came to shove, I'd rather have Yos as director than CTD.

I'll agree I've been a bit close-minded on you guardian. My mind has been set in stone, which I just realised, but you're still not exactly my top candidate

I'll push for CTD or Yos, mainly CTD, and probably with the other as director.

We have until tommorwo to decide.

[Xdaamno]

I'll push for CTD or Yos, mainly CTD, and probably with the other as director.

Though I REALLY don't like CTD's idleness. I'll be willing to change if it comes to the end of the day and Yos needs it.

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP:

with the other as

deputy

director.

Fixed.

[Xdaamno]

TBH, excellent questions.

1. What do you think the most important role (besides Director) is?

IMHO, cryptos. If we misplace the cryptos, we lose. They need to be assigned to those we believe are the most pro-town, I think.

2. Which player would you like to see in that position?

Who do I think is most pro-town? At the moment, I'd like to see Yos/CTD as director/backup director, but apart from that I haven't actually got a good reading on many other players. I'll review a few more people later.

3. Which player do you trust least?

At the moment? Guardian

Pushes too hard on the I'm-pro-town wagon, in various ways including the director wagon.

4. What role, if any, would you like assigned to that player?

I'm thinking of White-House liason at the moment, unless anyone else has better ideas.

[Xdaamno]

Bullied off voting me by Xdaamno because Xdaamno "has his eye on me":
Korran

[Xdaamno]

Xdaamno, CTD and CDB are high on my list of suspects. Xdaamno especially sounds terrorist with:

I haven't recieved my role yet :O

Kidding...

And attacking Guardian.

Bullying Korran.

Electing CTD. (He's electing who I think is most suspicious!)

Bad posting.

First off, you didn't seem to realise I was joking

Reasons why you think attacking a player is bad? How is that scummy in any way at all?

Fine, i submit to that one:P

And, once again, care to give any reasons why you think he's the most suspiscious? He's the most pro-town player from my POV.

[Xdaamno]

I'm actually interested in a few opinions of myself. Ultima just touched on me, but I seem to have not attracted much attention despite being one of the to poster in the first half of hour 0. I'm usually one of the first guys lynched -_-'

Anyway, guardian's once again jumping players with no good evidence from my POV. IGMEOY *twisted*

I'm pretty sure yos is being elected, so want to move onto game theory?

[Xdaamno]

Talk about personal attacks, guardian...

Any reason why I should be bodyguard? Do you all think I'm really that wrong here?

[Xdaamno]

Indeed. Out of some abilities, there's only a few I can even guess, such as arresting might be roleblocking.

[Xdaamno]

CTD, your game theory is generally better than Yos's... but I'm not sure how this correlates to scum/townishness atm.

[Xdaamno]

Just fyi, as director:

Director: Guardian
Deputy: UltimaAvalon / Yos once Yos is cleared
CIA: CTD
SIA: ChanelDelBird
SIA: Eyceking
Crypto: OffTheMark
Crypto: Korran
Field Agent/BodyGuard on OTM: Xdaamno
Field Agen/On Call/Switchable: Spambot
White House:YB
FBI:Yos/UA if Yos gets cleared
NSA:Albert

Many of these I definitely would want imput on; I feel good about CTD as CIA, CDB as SIA, OTM as Crypto, and Xdaamno as a bodyguard, though.

I have to disagree with almost all of this, mainly because you've given hardly

any

reasons why you want this setup.

[Xdaamno]

Well, your reason for disagreeing with it does cripple it as being a good setup, that is for sure. . *cough* hypocrisy *cough*

And I did give reasons for why I think people would be good in each position. Read, please.

I think the setup itself is good because the catch all scum plan is the best win condition to go for, and I think we should heavily focus on that with just a few laisions to keep our options open. We need two crypto minumum, though I would be welcome to three. We want both the FBI agent and the CIA looking for scum, we have SIA's maybe catching scum slips, we have field agents protecting critical roles, and we have the White House making the FBI even more useful, and have the NSA as a backup plan/to help with intel.

Yos, read all the games I am in. There are three current I believe and a fourth where he died. Note how I feel I have a great read on him in all of them. Note how the reverse is true. Note how this is not a scum tell...

Once again, no need for the PAs...

Most of the time when I put I'm joking, including the recent IGMEOY. You take me much too seriously

There's no real faults in the main paragraph, there. By 'just a few' did you mean 'not too many'? Liasons seem to be some of the most versatile roles, though the usefulness of this is debateable.

I read your whole previous post (duh), and the main gripe is you just reviewed a few seperate positions. When people do this it's helpful for you to list each role and person, then give a short reason why, then move onto the next person. Think you could do this?

[Xdaamno]

The CIA and SIA's choose who to target and then they get back a coded message. They then pass along this message to a crypto. The instructions say they have the ability to falsify info, so I'm guessing they can tell the mod if they want to pass along the real coded message or a fake one.

Yeah, I'm confused about this too. If they got an actual code to decipher, it'd be impossible to falsify it. My guess is they get a PM saying 'You recieved a code. Do you want to pass it on as it is, or do you want to change it's meaning? If changing, what do you want to change it to?'

Though, in RL, that wouldn't make much sense. You can't change the meaning of a code when you don't know how to decipher it.

[Xdaamno]

I find OTM's reasoning a litte strange there too. He should atleast of been able to see the argument from our POV in that Albert and UA aren't confirmed as trust-able at this stage in the game. He seemed to ignore the fact that his status dosen't correlate to the other's statuses.

Still, having said that, him ignoring the difference in status seems like something a pro-town player would do. If he was scum, I'm not sure of the reasoning behind him saying he trusts them, unless they're both his scumbuddies (unlikely). Of course, that dosen't mean the statement didn't seem off.

[Xdaamno]

Still, having said that, him ignoring the difference in status seems like something a pro-town player would do. If he was scum, I'm not sure of the reasoning behind him saying he trusts them, unless they're both his scumbuddies (unlikely). Of course, that dosen't mean the statement didn't seem off.

Eh...scum often try to buddy up with a good guy; they try to tie themselves to the good guy, both to make themselves look good, to get themselves an ally, and to make the good guy look bad later if they get caught. That's what it looks to me like he was doing with Albert.

Yeah... re-reading my own post made that a little obvious >.<

Well, I pretty much consider all the latecomers neutral, which is probably ethically correct anyway.

[Xdaamno]

Brownie points for referencing Occam's razor.

Unvote,Vote:GUarDIan

-_-'

Korran...?

[Xdaamno]

What the...

Guys

What's up with the switch to Guardian.

This is the most suspiscious play I've seen yet on this site

[Xdaamno]

Two players suddenly switch to guardian with little reasoning at exactly the same time?

[Xdaamno]

Apart... from... when you switched to Yos?

I don't know, two of the most suspiscious players switching to another of the most suspiscious players at the same time just seems like a rather odd coincidence.

[Xdaamno]

Guys... calm down. You must admit it's strange, even if it is a coincidence.

Two players suddenly switch to guardian with little reasoning at exactly the same time?

I have been considering switching to Guardian since he and Albert posted their ideal setups. I didn't like Albert's much at all. With Guardian, I just had the issue with the SIA position but other than that, I liked his plan.

Korran's vote made me realize Guardian DID have a chance to win so I decided to vote for him too.

I don't trust you at all, however, Xd.

Fair reasoning. Any reason you don't trust me, however? I suspect many players would say the same thing in my position, so from what I can tell it's OMGUS.

[Xdaamno]

I don't know, two of the most suspiscious players switching to another of the most suspiscious players at the same time just seems like a rather odd coincidence.

Funny you should say that, as I consider you and Yosarian (and Eyecking) the most suspicious players. As far as I can figure, I am apparently suspicious to you because I pointed out the most obvious explanation for the lurkers - any other reason?

Nope?

And, fair enough, you three are suspiscious from my POV. Even if I'm wrong, what does it matter? I said what I said based on my POV so you can't pin me as scum because you disagree with me when I was only saying what I knew.

[Xdaamno]

Yeah it is strange.His fault though(OTM)

So you changing wiht no reasoning whatsoever didn't contribute?

Riiiight

Seriously, nobody dislikes you or anything, it's just a game. If we don't believe you it's nothing personal.

[Xdaamno]

I meant every damn game evryone on everysite I play this at nobody beleives me.Ok

Same here!

[Xdaamno]

@ Everyone else: Ta-da!

[Xdaamno]

Nvm.

Ok, we need a votecount. I'm not ... cleared of suspiscion for guardian, but I'm open minded; it's unlikely everyone voting for his is scum.

[Xdaamno]

Korran, I am happy you support me, but I think I (and maybe others) have been a bit unfair in our treatment of Xd.

I definitely don't trust him atm, but being suspicious of the other players is what mafia is about! Xd may throw suspicion around in annoying ways sometimes (like saying ta-da when you get angry, lol), but I don't think his behavior justifies cussing him out and I hope this doesn't detract from you staying at the site! Mafia can be a very enjoyable experience .

Now, you two, kiss and make up .

Huh? Apparently you didn't get my ta-da

I'm not sure you can throw suspiscion around... 'too much'. I mean, if everyone just spoke their heart we'd have piles of evidence to go through. Infact, I'd be more suspiscious of those that witheld their views (Though, obviously, there are many exceptions).

[Xdaamno]

Field Agent/Bodyguard on OTM: Xdaamno

Why does everyone think I'm so damn expendeble for their own gain? XD

[Xdaamno]

Ok. Well, let me make a quick list of who I would put into each position if I become director; don't want anyone to be surprised or anything.


Field agents:
Off the Mark
YogurtBandit
Korran

Off the Mark and YogurtBandit I consider to be suspicious. Korran, not so much, actually, but he's also not someone I think the scum want to see dead.

Deputy Director:
Guardian

Like I said, it's not a position where he can do a lot of harm as scum, and if town he wouldn't be a bad director. Just so long as I don't get killed before we figure out his alignment, should be all right. If I do get killed, keep a close eye on him.

FBI liason: Xdaamno

Cop like role; definatly want someone here who active and seems to be already scumhunting. Xdaamno seems like the best choice at the moment.

CounterIntellegence: CrashTextDummie

Definatly want someone here we trust to be pro-town and who is active. Trust is even more important then with the FBI position, as whatever results he has is filtered again and so it'd be harder to prove a scum was fooling with us here, and it takes 4 hours to get an investgation so we don't want someone we'd be lynching halfway through.

Crypto agents:
Albert B. Rampage
???
???

Albert seems pro-town at this point.


So, that leaves the following players for the other two crypto roles and the two SIA roles; I'll have to go back and re-read them before I make any decisions there. And of course I'm open to suggestions (except more demands from Guardian to put him into some key position )

Spambot
Eyceking
UltimaAvalon
ChannelDelibird

Surprisingly, this is the

first

director setup I've seen that is well-detailed and has no face-value faults.

And NO, NOT just because it's the first time I've not bodyguard

If you're going to do a director setup, do it in this style. Analyse each role.

And, now, to protect my own integrity: IGMEOY Yos... you're too pro-town

[Xdaamno]

I'll go compile a votecount, starting from where the other guy (Sorry I forgot who did the last one) left off.

[Xdaamno]

Thanks to guardian/pooky/ultima for the original.

VC:

6 Yosarian(CDB, EyceKing, Spambot, Yosarian, Albert)
5 Guardian(Guardian, YogurtBandit, Korran, OTM)
2 CTD(CTD, Xdaamno)

Is 7 the electing number? If not, I'll vote Yos. Didn't realise I was still on CTD.

[Xdaamno]

Xd, you still want me to comment on all the positions? I am willing to if yes.

No, this was a little more detailed, which is cool.

Still, the main problem here is X players think Y are scummy and Y players think X are scummy, apparently. You've made good points, but I'll be honest I think you've chosen the wrong choices to bodyguard; I doubt those guys are going to be scumtargets, so...

Oh, they're cryptos. I see what you've done there.

I'm afraid, as

stupid

as I'm being by doing this, I don't really want to be bodyguard. I know someone gotta to do and from your POV I'd be a good candidate, but if I'm bodyguard I'm either useless/dead/lynched (They don't get killed/I take the bullet/I refuse to bodyguard respectivly), and to be honest, I'd hate missing out on a game this good. It's just hard for me to agree to something we're I'm forfeiting my position in this game.

[Xdaamno]

five people are beside Yos, and four beside me, yet our totals are that + 1. Explain?

I think 7 is the electing number.

Hm. I counted from Ultima's last VC... apparently It's 5/4/2 then? *screwed up*

5/4/2 should be right... in that case

Vote: Yosarian

, Making it 6/4/2

[Xdaamno]

Thanks, Pooky -_-'

Also, can messages be sent to multiple cryptos?

[Xdaamno]

We can ask the cryptos what the code is like when they get it, which would probably be safe.

[Xdaamno]

That mean he'd need to speed up 4 requests to have the effect of actually performing an action...

There's a few things unclear about the role but it really seems like a last resort kind of thing. It could be VERY useful near the endgame where we need an investigation done or something before someone dies.

[Xdaamno]

Could be useful to place suspiscious players. If they're scum they can't do much harm, from what we know.

[Xdaamno]

A question for the group - I haven't played in setups that are this "open" before. (since everyone will know the jobs assigned)

Should the investigators announce who they are investigating? It will help provide the town with more info, but it will also give scum the capability to mislead us. Like, if the CounterIntel guy says "I'm investigating the director, Yosarian" then the terrorists could kill him off and immediatley make Yos look guilty.

I think it will be better if investigators keep their actions secret until we get results.

And you think we'd be short-sighted enough to not realise this possibility? The scum will screw with us at some point, probably better early game than late game.

[Xdaamno]

@Spambot

Thankyou! I'm glad someone else is seeing what I have been seeing. This line:

I'll get you scums if it's the last thing I do!

is so scummy it's silly. Could you sound any faker?

I see your point, but I'm finding it hard to believe scum would put that on purpose to try and convince us he's pro-town and expect us not to notice. it's just not something scum would do, so I'm inclined to believe it was just a joke.

[Xdaamno]

Joking can go either way though. (WIFOM) Still gives me a scummy impression, but could easily be a silly joke too.

Joking? WIFOM? What, you're suggesting he could actually be trying to make you think he's helping, but he wants you to think he's joking?

That dosen't make sense

[Xdaamno]

Presenting... the three most unexplained posts in the game!

1. C-

Oh, wait, somebody beat me to it.

[Xdaamno]

In complete contrast to what I had planned, I'll do an analysis of the current game soon.

[Xdaamno]

Urgh, DAMN.

I just wrote a fucking feature-length analysis and lost it in the CPU quota errors (When I clicked back to recover it, I got one then too 0_o)



I'm not going to rewrite it, because it'd be more vague as I hate redoing things and would just make me look scummy

[Xdaamno]

I'm going out, and I'll be back in a while when I

might

attempt to redo the goddamn thing. Cya.

[Xdaamno]

Gah... I really want you to see my analysis, and I have

no clue

as to why you don't trust me, but I

hate

re-doing things. It just winds me up... I'll do it tommorow, most likely -_-'

[Xdaamno]

FBI is more important than counterintelligence because of two major points:

1) He can be sped up
2) He has more abilities

Because I know I am pro-town, and Guardian would assign me this position, I would rather have him as director.

For the record, I don't really want to be director, since I don't even have any kind of setup ready.

Anyway, I'm glad you gave some fair reasoning, Albert. Your opinions on CTD? While I feel there's some kind of 'intense evil aurora' surrounding him, I can't fault any of his arguments, so naturally I'm trusting him.

[Xdaamno]

-Simul-posted both of you >.>-

[Xdaamno]

Ah, right, I understand what he meant about the joke.

Yeah, I saw the locked game while he was sending out the roles (assumingly ), and stalked it. I can see how scum in that situation might make that conscious joke, but I think anyone can agree you're in a gray area, because it's more-than-possible I was just stalking the thread, which I was.

God, all my sentences are confusing to read.

[Xdaamno]

When's the exact deadline, again...?

[Xdaamno]

5 Yosarian(CDB, OffTheMark, Spambot, Xdaamno, Yosarian)
4 Guardian(Guardian, Korran, YogurtBandit, Albert)
1 CTD(CTD)
1 UltimaAvalon(UltimaAvalon)

[Xdaamno]

And remember how guardian said he'd rather be deputy -_-'

[Xdaamno]

Oh, indeed he did, I missed that one.

5/4 to Guardian then; considering there's hardly been any good argument for him, I'm quite confused.

[Xdaamno]

Simulpost.

Anyway, time for the cavalry >.>

Could we get a prod/post from ultima/CTD?

[Xdaamno]

Do you mean that you are confused I am ahead or because you opposed me, or because there has really be no one putting forth reasons why I would be a good choice? .

It's possible you're a better choice, it's just I've seen a lot of votes and not much support

[Xdaamno]

I am feeling a little better about Xd now. And on my first read-through I did find myself agreeing with some of his suspicions of the Guardian - YogurtBandit connection. That did seem pretty odd at the time, but almost too blatant to be truly scummy.

And, ironically, in my analysis I started feeling a little worse about you

Keep playing as you are, please, I don't want a defence yet

[Xdaamno]

Any chance of a

Prod: CTD

[Xdaamno]

What makes you think SIAs will capture something every single hour ?

When did he say that? Are you assuming it takes 1 hour to decrypt stuff?

[Xdaamno]

Sorry for beign a little unactive (Compared to my usual >.>) lately, just wondering when hour 0 actually finishes

[Xdaamno]

Two points:

I disagree with an eyceking lynch, as I outlined in my analysis (Which was deleted and I can't be arsed to do it again) as I feel a few players have made him seem more scummy than he is, reading his posts. Yes, I know if he turns up scum (Which he very possibly might do if we lynched him) it's my neck on the line, but I'm not getting as much of a pro-scum read on him as you are.

Secondly: Once again, nobody has outlined any reasons why they think I'm scummy.

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP: I've not recieved details on what any of my actions do:

Arrest (Can be used on Players)
Release (Can be used on arrested players)
Information Extraction (Looking at a player's extensive personal history/expenses to figure out if they are likely to be compromised)
Storming Targets
Wiretapping

, So we'll have to figure them out as a group.

[Xdaamno]

Hmm, Cool. Very useful.

OTM, the joke was because I was stalking the thread. If you're so into metagaming, check because I probably made another post at around the same time as that one.

I partially retracted my attacks on guardian, though I acknowledge this dosen't automatically make them not scummy. Do you really think that after getting pro-town vibes from me now, I'd be stupid enough to attack someone before I even have a chance of lynching them?

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP: If I arrested someone and I died, they'd be automatically released, right?

[Xdaamno]

In that case, we could use arrest as an extra lynch and the threat of their members being permanently captured should keep me from being NKed.

[Xdaamno]

And I want confirmation from Yos/whoever about whether you guys want my investigation result tonight immediatly or not.

[Xdaamno]

You wont get investigation results tonight Xd. You're the liaison. It takes you 4 hours to get anything done. And no, whoever you capture will not be taken permanently. If you die, Director can make someone else be the FBI Liaison, and they can release them, if deemed necessary.

Eyeceking: Put pressure on the FBI

Ohyeah >.>

[Xdaamno]

And lol at the

intense

roleplay

[Xdaamno]

*Remembers he has to send results to the cryptos first*

The cryptos shouldn't just tell Yos. We can't be 100% sure he's pro-town, so it's too risky. Everyone/No-One.

[Xdaamno]

I don't know why we're all turning to Yos for startegy now. Him having a power role dosen't change the fact he is/isn't scum.

[Xdaamno]

God, I forgot I could do that >.<

I already sent mine in so I'll see if I can change it, otherwise the other cop needs to.

[Xdaamno]

Short Answer: You're Paranoid

Anyway, the other cop can investigate Yos and I'll do someone else, if you like.

[Xdaamno]

/Or I can send my result to Spambot, though I'm not entirely convinced he's town. I can't change my action after hour 1 ends though, according to the mod.

[Xdaamno]

Well, if Yosarian wanted to spend the first hours hunting moles, he'd have his hands full - half of the office was suspicious on one level or another, and the list of logical, trustworthy people was small and shrinking by the second. He was all for lynching, but the margin of error here was tight, and it was best to wait for results and evidence and intelligence and all that good shit.

And now, they needed to gather it. He looked at YogurtBandit and shrugged. "When are Bauer's reports, hourly? I'd wait and see if he gets a lead before you run off to follow it."

By the way, Roleclaim/Lynch, which one you want?

[Xdaamno]

FA rolled his eyes and tried not to bury his head in his hands. Roleclaim.

ROLECLAIM?

ROLECLAIM?

"SIA. Townie. By the way,

think

about the game mechanics beforetrying to get all snarkalicious / get the fuck out, which one do

you

want?"

He didn't want or need a reputation as an ass, but... ROLECLAIM? Eh. Unprofessional, sure, and he'd probably get words on that. But one thing was for sure, they were only an hour in... and he already felt he was gonna need something stronger than coffee.

*throws coffee in face*

Next, how'd you join the game?

[Xdaamno]

Oh, he did?

Better stop grilling then

*lame welcome handshake*

[Xdaamno]

I disagree with most of OTM's posts and his vote on Eyce, who I only find a little more scummy than average (Which isn't enough for a lynch), plus the fact he's now wanting us to push the lynch quickly

Vote: OTM

You've been flying under the radar a little from what I can tell.

[Xdaamno]

Go on, then, I'll analyse you. Make sure you provide a defense rather than shrugging me off

Well since Guardian's not gonna be director I'm going to get a crappy job so I don't give a shit who is director.It makes no difference to me

I know you are new, but this is not a pro-town attitude. You are here to win the game, hopefully, and not just "get assigned a cool job."

Anyway, yeah having the roles not sent by PM was a big mistake by the mod IMO. I am finding myself agreeing with Albert that anyone posting soon after the thread started is suspicious.

However, when I did the read-through, Guardian seemed like a bit of an impulsive nutjob to me, so I don't want him in charge either. He seems to judge people waaayyy too quickly for my liking.

How about this idea?

vote: Albert B. Rampage

for director.

We need someone we can trust and he is my pick because I am sure he is in the same boat as me. I had no idea this game had started until I got a prod and it seems he is in the same situation.

Right from the first post, this is one of my points. The tone of voice employed by OTM is quite manipulative (Though, admittedly, I haven't read his other games so I don't know if he's always like this). Korran was the easiest target for allying with easily; then again, they could be scum partners but OTM's scum either way. Of course, this is 80% of a scum vibes kind of thing.

Yes, he'll probably strawman the above argument since it isn't that strong.

3. Which player do you trust least?
The lurking ones. Who haven't posted. At all. Other than that... maybe I don't know. Too early in the game to be certain about things like that.

eyecking was giving me scum vibes from the beginning but this post puts him over the top. Given that the mod didn't send out PM's to townies, that seems like an obvious answer to me as to why players are lurking. But if you DID receive a PM, (as I believe eyecking did) perhaps this would not occur to you. It's also a convenient excuse to deflect suspicion.

FOS: eyecking

This is OTM's third post. He's already jumping on eyce, and I don't see anything wrong with eyce's statement. One thing I have noticed, though is, OTM's use of 'eyecking was giving me scum vibes from the beginning' . Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't OTM one of those

who wasn't even there at the beginning

?

Disclaimer 2: Wow, look at the connections between me and Eyce through the game, after re-reading. This was unintentional, and please give me the benifet of the doubt.

That's quite a fantasy you cooked up there, Yos.

FOS: Yosarian2

Fifth post, no explanations, lots of embellishment. This is probably the best example of this I can find.

Yos, you seem to focus on odd things when you read my posts. The only way you could possibly think that the focus of my posts has been to prove myself innocent is that either you were suspicious of me from the very beginning for some odd reason or you are simply scum and trying to throw up a smokescreen here.

Anyway, I think Guardian is making a mistake when he says the SIA role might be a good place to stick suspicious players. These roles can be as good as CIA's as they get to track communication with the mod (i.e. terrorist actions) and they can falsify info. The only roles that would be somewhat safe are the Liaison roles with the exception of the FBI Liaison. Field Agent roles would also be good for suspicious players because we could order them to be bodyguards. They might have some dangerous capabilities in that role, like assassination, but they would immediately identify themselves as terrorists if they did not follow orders.

Hm. The first paragraph is wrong, simply because of this: Even if OTM was not being overdefensive, how is it in any way no pro-town to point it out? It's perfectly reasonable for any x pro-town player to believe someone is being overdefensive even if they don't realise it. Stating your feelings is pro-town, not pro-scum. Still, I'm not ruling out Yos as scum, just that OTM's argument is faulty.

The second paragraph is slightly better. He makes a few good points, but still comes off as rather manipulative in his writing style.

Two players suddenly switch to guardian with little reasoning at exactly the same time?

I have been considering switching to Guardian since he and Albert posted their ideal setups. I didn't like Albert's much at all. With Guardian, I just had the issue with the SIA position but other than that, I liked his plan.

Korran's vote made me realize Guardian DID have a chance to win so I decided to vote for him too.

I don't trust you at all, however, Xd.

And here's his very first mention of me, his seventeenth post. Regardless, his argument in the second paragraph reeks vibes to me.

We should be looking to support the players who look the smartest and most pro-town, not those that have the best chance of winning

. Why he'd choose to support guardian solely based on the fact he had the best chance of winning is strange.

And, after that, he says he dosen't trust me out of the blue, but do you remember the context this was taken from? Two of the most suspiscious players suddenly voted for another of the most suspiscious players at the same time, with crap reasoning. Now, even if I was wrong, how is it not pro-town to point out this was strange?

Actually this is kinda silly. We are never going to agree on a good setup since some of us are scum. It's like throwing Jesse Jackson and David Duke into a room to try to come up with a plan on how to best fight racism in schools.

Little content, lots of posting.

And I'll do the rest of the analysis when I have time.

[Xdaamno]

But don't just wait for it. Post!

[Xdaamno]

Votecount?

And before the end of hour 1 would be cool, guardian.

[Xdaamno]

Go on, then, I'll analyse you. Make sure you provide a defense rather than shrugging me off

If you insist, but this whole argument is so weak, I almost feel like just shrugging it off.

Kay, but I've seen newbie scum use that kind of 'Oh, don't worry, you're wrong, I'm fine' thing before.

Right from the first post, this is one of my points. The tone of voice employed by OTM is quite manipulative (Though, admittedly, I haven't read his other games so I don't know if he's always like this). Korran was the easiest target for allying with easily; then again, they could be scum partners but OTM's scum either way. Of course, this is 80% of a scum vibes kind of thing.

Yes, he'll probably strawman the above argument since it isn't that strong.

Yes, I was talking down to Korran. He is a 12-year old who doesn't know how to play, I was trying to help. I was also critical of him for playing to get a good job rather than playing to win. You call this manipulative, I call it persuasive and pro-town.

You weren't persuading him, you were manipulating him, anyone can see that. Just because you say you weren't dosen't mean you weren't.

This is OTM's third post. He's already jumping on eyce, and I don't see anything wrong with eyce's statement.

I explained what was wrong with it.

Good for you. I, however, do not agree with your reasoning (As I said) and thus I'm suspiscious of why you made the argument when it's (obviously in my own eyes) faulty.

One thing I have noticed, though is, OTM's use of 'eyecking was giving me scum vibes from the beginning' . Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't OTM one of those

who wasn't even there at the beginning

?

This is one of those things that is so dumb it is not worth responding to. When I say "from the beginning" it means from the beginning of my reading of the game. Seriously, this didn't occur to you? I don't think you are this dumb, so I am forced to think you are grasping at straws here to criticize me, which means you are scum.

OTM, stop using personal attacks. They're not helping anyone, and if anything they're just confusing all of us, and not helping the town.

Also, you took that out of context. In the previous paragraph I stated that was only your

third

post (Correct me if I'm wrong). If you had a few more posts, that would be a fair excuse.

Disclaimer 2: Wow, look at the connections between me and Eyce through the game, after re-reading. This was unintentional, and please give me the benifet of the doubt.

Interesting you felt the need to post

this

.

That's quite a fantasy you cooked up there, Yos.

FOS: Yosarian2

Fifth post, no explanations, lots of embellishment. This is probably the best example of this I can find.

I don't find it necessary to fully explain in excruciating detail every thought I have. Most of the times, I think my line of thought is fairly easy to see. If not, I will say so. This was posted after Yos's theory about intentional lurking. It seemed bizarre to me at the time, but I guess it is possible, now that I have considered it more. But I still don't find it very likely.

You don't have to say everything in 'excrutiating detail'. That's not what I'm suggesting, so stop twisting my words. All you need to do is say it. While this may not be a massive scum tell if you believed we knew what you meant anyway, all you needed to do was say 'I don't believe you because...' or say that it's unlikely.

Hm. The first paragraph is wrong, simply because of this: Even if OTM was not being overdefensive, how is it in any way no pro-town to point it out? It's perfectly reasonable for any x pro-town player to believe someone is being overdefensive even if they don't realise it. Stating your feelings is pro-town, not pro-scum. Still, I'm not ruling out Yos as scum, just that OTM's argument is faulty.

The second paragraph is slightly better. He makes a few good points, but still comes off as rather manipulative in his writing style.

I said nothing about Yos being pro or anti-town. I simply said it seemed he had to be suspicious of me from the get-go in order to get that reading on my posts. Do you have reading comprehension problems?

Can anyone believe OTM's overdefensiveness? Look, if I'm pointing out arguments why the fuck are you trying to insult me? It's a game, it's what everyone has to do, now grow up.

And you were pointing out a strange thing that Yos had done. The only singular reason you would point these out was to see if it might of been a scum tell, and therefore you thought, from that point, he might not be pro-town. I was saying I don't see how it's not pro-town? Yes? Kapeesh?

And here's his very first mention of me, his seventeenth post. Regardless, his argument in the second paragraph reeks vibes to me.

We should be looking to support the players who look the smartest and most pro-town, not those that have the best chance of winning

. Why he'd choose to support guardian solely based on the fact he had the best chance of winning is strange.

This is perfectly normal. It's the same reason you don't vote for a third party candidate for president.

Once again, just because you say it's perfectly normal it dosen't mean it is. It's a

serious

flaw to just vote for the winning guy, and not support any other views. If you thought x player would be a good director and nobody made a case for them, you should try and put an argument forward for them. You can still agree with other people's points, but that is definatly the best strategy. Voting for the second-best director in your own eyes just because they're winning is a

very

poor excuse. What you really should of done here is admitted it might of been a bad choice and have an inch of humility, becuase arguing to vote for second-best as good is just plain stupid, or scummy,

And, after that, he says he dosen't trust me out of the blue, but do you remember the context this was taken from? Two of the most suspiscious players suddenly voted for another of the most suspiscious players at the same time, with crap reasoning. Now, even if I was wrong, how is it not pro-town to point out this was strange?

Suspicious to you. I disagree that Korran and I are suspicious. Guardian, not so sure about. Again, I said nothing about your actions being anti-town. Since you seem to keep assuming this, it seems you are being kinda overdefensive here.

No, you're twisting my words. You said 'you don't trust me', implying I was not pro-town. Stop lying

Actually this is kinda silly. We are never going to agree on a good setup since some of us are scum. It's like throwing Jesse Jackson and David Duke into a room to try to come up with a plan on how to best fight racism in schools.

Little content, lots of posting.

Oh come on, I can't try to lighten things up with a humorous observation once in a while? This whole argument of yours seems like a HUUUUGGGE reach to me and makes me very suspicious of you. I find it hard to believe another townie could legitimately have so much suspicion of me based on these posts.

My argument's not a reach, because I've defended every single point, and whatever my alignment it can't be a reach from my POV. For the third time, just because you say something dosen't make it true. I find it hard another townie would be so overdefensive as to think everyone attacking them is scum.

[Xdaamno]

Go on, then, I'll analyse you. Make sure you provide a defense rather than shrugging me off

If you insist, but this whole argument is so weak, I almost feel like just shrugging it off.

Kay, but I've seen newbie scum use that kind of 'Oh, don't worry, you're wrong, I'm fine' thing before.

Right from the first post, this is one of my points. The tone of voice employed by OTM is quite manipulative (Though, admittedly, I haven't read his other games so I don't know if he's always like this). Korran was the easiest target for allying with easily; then again, they could be scum partners but OTM's scum either way. Of course, this is 80% of a scum vibes kind of thing.

Yes, he'll probably strawman the above argument since it isn't that strong.

Yes, I was talking down to Korran. He is a 12-year old who doesn't know how to play, I was trying to help. I was also critical of him for playing to get a good job rather than playing to win. You call this manipulative, I call it persuasive and pro-town.

You weren't persuading him, you were manipulating him, anyone can see that. Just because you say you weren't dosen't mean you weren't.

This is OTM's third post. He's already jumping on eyce, and I don't see anything wrong with eyce's statement.

I explained what was wrong with it.

Good for you. I, however, do not agree with your reasoning (As I said) and thus I'm suspiscious of why you made the argument when it's (obviously in my own eyes) faulty.

One thing I have noticed, though is, OTM's use of 'eyecking was giving me scum vibes from the beginning' . Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't OTM one of those

who wasn't even there at the beginning

?

This is one of those things that is so dumb it is not worth responding to. When I say "from the beginning" it means from the beginning of my reading of the game. Seriously, this didn't occur to you? I don't think you are this dumb, so I am forced to think you are grasping at straws here to criticize me, which means you are scum.

OTM, stop using personal attacks. They're not helping anyone, and if anything they're just confusing all of us, and not helping the town.

Also, you took that out of context. In the previous paragraph I stated that was only your

third

post (Correct me if I'm wrong). If you had a few more posts, that would be a fair excuse.

Disclaimer 2: Wow, look at the connections between me and Eyce through the game, after re-reading. This was unintentional, and please give me the benifet of the doubt.

Interesting you felt the need to post

this

.

That's quite a fantasy you cooked up there, Yos.

FOS: Yosarian2

Fifth post, no explanations, lots of embellishment. This is probably the best example of this I can find.

I don't find it necessary to fully explain in excruciating detail every thought I have. Most of the times, I think my line of thought is fairly easy to see. If not, I will say so. This was posted after Yos's theory about intentional lurking. It seemed bizarre to me at the time, but I guess it is possible, now that I have considered it more. But I still don't find it very likely.

You don't have to say everything in 'excrutiating detail'. That's not what I'm suggesting, so stop twisting my words. All you need to do is say it. While this may not be a massive scum tell if you believed we knew what you meant anyway, all you needed to do was say 'I don't believe you because...' or say that it's unlikely.

Hm. The first paragraph is wrong, simply because of this: Even if OTM was not being overdefensive, how is it in any way no pro-town to point it out? It's perfectly reasonable for any x pro-town player to believe someone is being overdefensive even if they don't realise it. Stating your feelings is pro-town, not pro-scum. Still, I'm not ruling out Yos as scum, just that OTM's argument is faulty.

The second paragraph is slightly better. He makes a few good points, but still comes off as rather manipulative in his writing style.

I said nothing about Yos being pro or anti-town. I simply said it seemed he had to be suspicious of me from the get-go in order to get that reading on my posts. Do you have reading comprehension problems?

Can anyone believe OTM's overdefensiveness? Look, if I'm pointing out arguments why the fuck are you trying to insult me? It's a game, it's what everyone has to do, now grow up.

And you were pointing out a strange thing that Yos had done. The only singular reason you would point these out was to see if it might of been a scum tell, and therefore you thought, from that point, he might not be pro-town. I was saying I don't see how it's not pro-town? Yes? Kapeesh?

And here's his very first mention of me, his seventeenth post. Regardless, his argument in the second paragraph reeks vibes to me.

We should be looking to support the players who look the smartest and most pro-town, not those that have the best chance of winning

. Why he'd choose to support guardian solely based on the fact he had the best chance of winning is strange.

This is perfectly normal. It's the same reason you don't vote for a third party candidate for president.

Once again, just because you say it's perfectly normal it dosen't mean it is. It's a

serious

flaw to just vote for the winning guy, and not support any other views. If you thought x player would be a good director and nobody made a case for them, you should try and put an argument forward for them. You can still agree with other people's points, but that is definatly the best strategy. Voting for the second-best director in your own eyes just because they're winning is a

very

poor excuse. What you really should of done here is admitted it might of been a bad choice and have an inch of humility, becuase arguing to vote for second-best as good is just plain stupid, or scummy,

And, after that, he says he dosen't trust me out of the blue, but do you remember the context this was taken from? Two of the most suspiscious players suddenly voted for another of the most suspiscious players at the same time, with crap reasoning. Now, even if I was wrong, how is it not pro-town to point out this was strange?

Suspicious to you. I disagree that Korran and I are suspicious. Guardian, not so sure about. Again, I said nothing about your actions being anti-town. Since you seem to keep assuming this, it seems you are being kinda overdefensive here.

No, you're twisting my words. You said 'you don't trust me', implying I was not pro-town.

Actually this is kinda silly. We are never going to agree on a good setup since some of us are scum. It's like throwing Jesse Jackson and David Duke into a room to try to come up with a plan on how to best fight racism in schools.

Little content, lots of posting.

Oh come on, I can't try to lighten things up with a humorous observation once in a while? This whole argument of yours seems like a HUUUUGGGE reach to me and makes me very suspicious of you. I find it hard to believe another townie could legitimately have so much suspicion of me based on these posts.

My argument's not a reach, because I've defended every single point, and whatever my alignment it can't be a reach from my POV. For the third time, just because you say something dosen't make it true. I find it hard another townie would be so overdefensive as to think everyone attacking them is scum.

[Xdaamno]

Whoops, double post.

[Xdaamno]

Guardian, I'm not trying to lynch you, for the record.

[Xdaamno]

First off, thanks for the neutrality regardless of whether you're scum or not. This dosen't mean I think of you any less as scum, however. That post was just so utterly consistent with scum it's hard not to point it out; it's like textbook scuminess, though I'm surprised since you see 'textbook scuminess' very rarely.

I'm talking about how you seemed to almost try and make friends with me, and then tried to get me to attack the person who I thought was second-most-scummiest to your knowledge.

[Xdaamno]

Not really, OTM. I even said I would be surprised if it was a scum tell since it's almost too cliche.

Don't worry, I'm not as short-sighted as I look with this one, if you're town.

[Xdaamno]

OTM, you're asking for a bandwagon and I'm giving you one

Still, I don't like the way you're ignoring a lot of attacks upon yourself. You can argue whatever you say is somehow wrong, but I just don't see many people do this and it seems strange.

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP: Also, I'm investigating Yos. It's hard to ask for a bodyguard protection, because people take it as a scum tell, but I'm doing so anyway; if Yos is scum, I'll probably get killed. If he's not scum, I'll probably get killed after reading this.

[Xdaamno]

I'll probably get killed after they read this and try to frame him.

[Xdaamno]

Firstly, don't drift back to the personal attacks. I was a little sleepy while writing that and it came out wrong.

What's I'm trying to say is when the spotlight is on you, you seem to laugh it off. The only reason I see people do this is because they'd planned to do so in hindsight; the natural reaction as town is to defend yourself.

And OTM, I must of missed the bit about someone protecting me. Apparently, that makes me an idiot?

[Xdaamno]

Pun?

Yeah, how long until hour 1 ends again? I'll go check.

[Xdaamno]

Hour one ended yesterday 0_0

It started on the 28th, around page 19 I think.

[Xdaamno]

And OTM, I must of missed the bit about someone protecting me. Apparently, that makes me an idiot?

Not what I said. Earlier Yos instructed me to protect the FBI liaison. Now do you understand?

Uh, that's what I said, I missed that bit. I don't get you? Or are you AGAIN trying to attack me for not implying something rather than saying it

Half-Kidding.

[Xdaamno]

I know, and I missed the bit when you said you were, for the third time

[Xdaamno]

Gah... lynch OTM already; you look

unbelievably

scummy from here >.<

We have until tommorow to lynch; that's when hour 2 ends.

Vote: OTM

if I haven't already.

[Xdaamno]

Prod: Everyone who hasn't posted Hour 2

If we could, an hour 2 extension would be cool, too >.>

[Xdaamno]

Sorry, I haven't posted much. I don't really understand what orders Yos is supposed to be giving Jack, and I'm really not sure what we should be doing. I still think Eyceking is the best bet for scum, and I feel better about OTM after that last exchange. Other than that, it doesn't seem like there is really much for me to do until somebody gives me something to decrypt.

Eh. I disagree with that entire post -_-'

OTM's posts just look like manipulation from here, and I'm annoyed nobody else sees this -_-'

[Xdaamno]

They need a smiley for -_-'.

[Xdaamno]

Mainly the way how once again, he's ignored his own defense and tried to let it blow over him. I guess I may find this scummy as once I actually

consciously considered doing this as a scum tactic

. I didn't do it because I thought it would look to unusual, and I don't see many pro-town people doing it.

I want to hear everyone's views a little more.

[Xdaamno]

Especially on OTM.

[Xdaamno]

What 's the evidence I've presented got to do with it? It's gut feeling, and I'm trying hard to see if I can find anybody who shares it who might be able to express it better than me. I've not got my mind set; you've just assumed that because I've had to push so hard to get reactions from others (Which I still haven't got). I mean, you were the one sayinga bandwagon was good anyway.

[Xdaamno]

Gah... lynch OTM already; you look

unbelievably

scummy from here >.<

We have until tommorow to lynch; that's when hour 2 ends.

Vote: OTM

if I haven't already.

I didn't say arguments, OTM. I meant points, like this. Most pro-town people respond to them, from my experience.

[Xdaamno]

OTM, everyone feels like this occasionally, I just express it. There's nothing else to go on at the moment. If something more important comes up, I publically jump on it, not reserve my opinions like a lot of idiots do.

This is the exact opposite of what you JUST said. So the arguments I am supposed to be defending myself against are your gut feelings? This is totally insane.

Once again, you have me wrong. I'm not even

asking

you to respond to arguements. It's usually when I say something against you, most people respond to it. I think there's been about 3 occasions where I've said thigns and you haven't responded. I'm going looking over your games to see if you're normally like this.

And yes, it's all gut feeling. You can respond to part of it, though, such as my accusations of manipulation. You could of referenced how you usually do this, or a reason, or something, but you said nothing. It just seems unusual.

[Xdaamno]

Eh, you seem to look generally dramatic and manipulative in most of your games. IGMEOY, but you think I'm attacking you more than I am. I just haven't seen this type of play before, that's all.

[Xdaamno]

And if you want me to respond to comments like "you look scummy" my only response is going to be "Please explain how." Now it's your turn.

Eh, that's loaded... I've already said it's mostly gut.

I'm off, I'll check again tonight.

[Xdaamno]

It's not as black and white as that, OTM. 'You look unbelievably scummy' wasn't my argument at all, and I don't expect a rebuttal. I just expected you to respond to it

somehow

. I wasn't expecting you to make an argument against something you admittedly can't defend yourself against.

[Xdaamno]

Eh, that confused me. You didn't use a quote.

Still, you've done it a few times in the past, even if it wasn't the best example. I'm kind of failing at expressing my gut here.

[Xdaamno]

I don't think OTM is scum. And gut is a weak reason to be voting someone now, Xdaamo. You seemed to be the most active in searching out scum, and you had an extended Hour 0 in which to analyze people then when Hour 1 arrives and you can actually go after people - you use your gut.

The only, singular reason I voted was to start a bandwagon since we're on such short time restraints.

Er, apologies, Xdaamno. Damned weird name :p

Np

I think I know why you are feeling this way. You posted your big case against me and then I posted a big rebuttal. Then you posted a counter-rebuttal and I let it drop. I was going to post a counter-counter-rebuttal, but I figured we wouldn't be covering any new ground, we'd just be saying things like "no I didn't" and "yes you did" so I didn't bother.

Is that the problem here? I just figured you weren't convinced, but I thought my arguments still would stand up to the scrutiny of the town, even with you getting the last word in, so I didn't continue the debate.

I guess that would play a part in it. I think everyone's been getting a little confused over miscommunication and things between the town. In a normal game, I'd definatly not want to lynch you yet, but in this one where hour 2 ends so soon? I needed to apply pressure faster than usual.

[Xdaamno]

Mod: Since I sent my action in on hour 1, when will I get the results again?

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP: Yosarian, why did you get a crypto when we didn't have any results? 1 hour to change positions isn't that much.

[Xdaamno]

I've been noticing that too. Yoghurt and guardian generally support each other, but don't review each other much. Consistent, not indictative of scuminess though.

[Xdaamno]

@Xd and OTM

Quit yer bitchin. All I see here is the bickering of an old married couple.

Thanks for your brilliant input. IGMEOY as a OTM/Ultima pairing for trying to make me feel embarrased by attacking him.

[Xdaamno]

Probably either:

A: Albert recieved info from Jack or

B: Albert and Yos are scum and want to discuss strategy

[Xdaamno]

That's a poor excuse. If you're pro-town, however, I don't want to investigate any further. IGMEOY.

[Xdaamno]

Albert, why are my questions pointless again?

As a crypto, there's no reason to ask Yos to do so unless it was A) or B). My bet's on A, but B was for the record.

[Xdaamno]

I didn't mean using my action. I meant if you were pro-town, you'd have a reason not to tell us what Jack sent you, assuming Jack sent you something anyway.

[Xdaamno]

(As in it's info you don't want the scum to know, so you can't say it publicly. I wonder why you're only telling Yos then? IIRC you didn't think he was the most pro-town player - am I wrong?)

[Xdaamno]

... What the hell. You want a cryptographer that isn't actually doing anything to be protected?

Even if I was scum, what I said would still allow you to dechiper

something

.

[Xdaamno]

(And when did you and OTM have such a good bond; as in why do you trust him more than others, and why do you think he'd trust you more than anyone else?)

[Xdaamno]

Thanks for your brilliant input. IGMEOY as a OTM/Ultima pairing for trying to make me feel embarrased by attacking him.

I was talking to both of you, and you both should be embarrassed.

Wow, that sounds pretty sad. Most people don't get upset because they're not the main focus of the conversation

In all seriousness, I'm interested to know why you actually think I'd be embarrased? I could provide a good argument for the fact every single one of your posts has been 'bickering' because it's mafia-related.

[Xdaamno]

Is that a lynch?

As usual, there's probably one backseat-driver voter on the wagon.

[Xdaamno]

Yos, can we have a quick chat in your office? I would like to disclose who I am protecting to you and you only.

It's stuff like this that makes me want to lie down and die that people haven't jumped on it.

[Xdaamno]

No, I just didn't think anyone would be stupid enough not to work it out.

Why would a townie place so much trust in Yos when they've previously said 'I like Yos's game analysis, but I'm not sure he's pro-town' (Paraphrased, but not cannabalised)? Confirming all your information to one player you're not even sure is pro-town is a

horrible

strategy for a townie.

[Xdaamno]

-_-'

And how do you know this? I'm investigating him too >.>

Though it might not be an entirely bad thing.

[Xdaamno]

, but again I don't see why they would if they don't know who he was supposed to be protecting.

Yes, exactly. They could do that because I

have

told you who I'm protecting.

You're use of the word confused me, anyway. I was looking more at the role names; otherwise the term 'cop' would probably be better.

[Xdaamno]

Well, I was going to tell it to Yos first to see how he wanted to handle it, but I might as well post it in the thread if he's ignoring me.

Xdaamo did nothing on hour 2.

Uhm, yes. Your point? I sent the action in on hour 1.

[Xdaamno]

(For the record, I had nothing to gain from

not

performing the action anyway, if I was scum. Cryptos would be expecting a result.)

[Xdaamno]

I'm not being defensive, it's just you implied it was incriminating evidence when anyone can see it's pointless.

[Xdaamno]

Eh, I thought you would, and then I planned to point out

That's moronic.

was your only comment before voting him

[Xdaamno]

Well, I was going to tell it to Yos first to see how he wanted to handle it, but I might as well post it in the thread if he's ignoring me.

It's hardly paranoid to assume you thought something of it, regardless of whether you did or not.

[Xdaamno]

0_o

Uhm, either?

It's a small point, and they're both practically the same meaning. What, you want me to use a theosauras on every single word I use? Looks like grasping.

[Xdaamno]

Eh, sorry. Too many of my posts are coming across that way.

[Xdaamno]

Orders... as in... PMs?

This

I'm suspiscious of. Apparently, they've hacked into a pro-town player's computer to send PMs, when they fully well know the person will be able to tell people to ignore them?

[Xdaamno]

That's slightly better... I assumed you were given more details in your PM since you paraphrased it -_-'

[Xdaamno]

FOS: OTM/Spambot pairing

.

I didn't like Spambot's answer at all; it looked like scum trying to waddle out of the hammer (Yes, before OTM came into it). After that, my already-top lynch choice OTM came in with 'It's not a great answer, Spambot, but it seems like an honest answer.', which A) Seems strange, defending something I think looks scummy (Once again, if it was not OTM, I would be FOSing someone else. Don't take it personally), and B) looks like the perfect way to clear your partner without saying 'I agree with you'.

Once again, hunches, nothing solid.

[Xdaamno]

OTM, as I stated, I saw the scuminess before I saw your name.

[Xdaamno]

And you'll get my results hour 6. Hour 5 when I get em, hour 5 for the crypto.

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP: Hour 6 for the crypto, sorry.

[Xdaamno]

Oh, does it?

Excellent

I'll have it hour 5 then.

[Xdaamno]

Yeah, OTM, I might of been exaggerating. I was just making a point I would of said what I said about everyone.

[Xdaamno]

I don't even know the mechanics. As soon as I get my result I'll tell you all and send another order off.

[Xdaamno]

So that freezes my Yos investigation. It obviously incriminates him, but because of that I think it's a frame.

[Xdaamno]

We believe Mr. Bauer was acting on faulty intel provided by CTU and have reason to suspect that extensive housecleaning is in order on your end.

I think it's obvious it was his hacked computers. The scum being able to send info at the same time we get this hint and a non pro-town move from our director is too much a coincidence.

[Xdaamno]

Eh, guardian, changing back does two things: Ensures if Yos was changing to get scum partners in important roles, we'll be put back, and it'll only set us back a single hour compared to keeping people like this.

[Xdaamno]

If Yos was changing to get scum partners in important roles

Know something I don't know?

Uhm, what? What is wrong with 'If Yos is changing roles'? What are you assuming, I meant 'Because Yos is changing roles'? In that case, why the hell would I point it out?

[Xdaamno]

I believe in slips as scumtells. One static thing that never changes is that scum have more information that the town. If the scum reveal that, whee! I think you slipped when you said Yos was changing roles, you didn't read what Yos said, and you and Yos have your stories mixed up.

You said if Yos WAS chaning roles. Yos claimed that he didn't change the roles -- you said that he did. Now you changed was to is, and didn't really respond adequately imo.

Eh. This is such a terrible argument. Guardian, I said 'If Yos was changing roles'. You said 'Yos claimed that he didn't change the roles -- you said that he did.'. What I was doing was saying that if X happened, Y would happen, so I don't think X happened. You seem to have thought I said X happened.

[Xdaamno]

Wait, let me rephrase that. I was saying 'If X happened, Y would happen, so we're fine', and you seem to have thought I said 'X happened'.

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP:

Prods on Korran.

[Xdaamno]

I'm with Albert on that one.

[Xdaamno]

I was almost going to post 'Why does everyone disagree with me', but I think 'Care to give any reasons?' is more appropriate.

Care to give any reasons?

[Xdaamno]

You're scum, he's scum, whtat's the use of

me

explaining?

I don't think you're particularly high on the scumdar. I don't think OTM is likely to be scum (As in, I'd give him less than a 50% chance, which is more than most). I

do

think, however, he might not be trustable.

[Xdaamno]

Unless the cryptos are hiding something from us, I don't think we need more than 1 atm. Though, I guess if he was scum he would be hiding stuff from us, and we might not be able to trust the other crypto...

[Xdaamno]

So he's either scum, nothing has been sent to him or it's all been sent to the other guy who's scum (Who's the other crypto again?)

[Xdaamno]

, who happens to be one of my top candidates for scum.

[Xdaamno]

Eh. I don't like the way that player said 'Guardian is scum' rather than 'Guardian is probably scum'.

Oh wait! It's OTM! I didn't notice that before I thought of this.

[Xdaamno]

... Unless CTD is scum?

[Xdaamno]

Logically, I'm inclined to side with Guardian here, as in he's pro-town (Reserving judgement on Yos). My own peeve is my gut telling me how easily Guardian could be scum, however.

[Xdaamno]

Tea or coffee?

[Xdaamno]

Kinetic, for the record, we'd just immediatly lynch him, no harm done. After that we have to WIFOM-decode the deputy. I doubt the mod would make this game so easily breakable as in they can kil Jack wihtout us doing anything about it.

[Xdaamno]

Wait, I just realised how badly that came out

I meant if we somehow knew CTD was scum for sure and killing Yos just to take the position.

[Xdaamno]

But even then, I don't think that would happen. It is hardly proof, its just amazingly suspicious, and I have yet to see any lynch on this site take less that 5 pages.

I've seen atleast ten games in which that happened, and I don't read that many games anymore

[Xdaamno]

Yos, I don't know if you have more information than me or something, because I would have no clue where to start with all this 'Jack' stuff.

[Xdaamno]

Posting this in all my games. I'm having a surprise vacation from this Monday (the 23rd), for about one week, and if I have any internet access at all I'll be lucky. I don't particularly want to be replaced in all my games, so mods; please talk to me before you do anything drastic, since I'm still here for 3/4 more days.

[Xdaamno]

EBWOP (In all games >.>): Just found out I'll still have internet access, after making a few phone calls, so I'll be fine.

[Xdaamno]

What annoyed me was there was a simple way to get 'out' of the hack, yet it just seemed to get lost in pointless conversation

Yos, you played a cruel trick on me when I was alive... but gg