NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #1050 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:38 am

Post by Aneninen »

As for your , Garmmr.

You mentioned my read on Boonskiies. Sure, that is
one
possible interpretation, and for you, definitely the most confortable one so as to scumread me.
Another
possible interpretation would be the following.
"I'm not saying that he's town. He may be scum. But, NOT because of your reasons."
and
"That's why I thought he was town."
are different aspects of the same thing. Boonskiies early-Day1 play was a thing which I'd seen before and in that game he had been town. Thinking =/= saying. Why? Because, at that point the only data about Boonskiies was his early-gameplay. At the beginning, we have very little information thats'why our reads are often unreliable. Thinking that he's town because of his intro is not enough for saying the same thing. I've never ruled out the possibility that he's scum. I told you only the following: if he
is
, your arguments don't proove it.
Yet again, you could have asked about the topic above. It did not happen. Instead of that, YOU decided what the ONLY meaning of those things might have been.

I'm pretty much uninterested in the rest of that post. It's full of contradictions, self-contradictions and pieces of proof for my thoughts. Just look at this sentence:
"You didn't understand what i was trying to convoy and i gave up and dropped it."
– and you're saying it's
me
, who's responsible for the absence of communication. Also, yet again: you're talking AT me instead of talking TO me.

Achievement Unlocked:

If it weren't a game, you'd have got the following title for your attitude:
Honorary Member Of My Nation


Until your willingness to change your attitude equals zero,

* * * COMMUNICATION IS TERMINATED * * *
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Post Post #1051 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:51 am

Post by Garmr »

^ This is more reason to lynch this guy.
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Post Post #1052 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:00 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1043, Aneninen wrote:
In post 1028, Thor665 wrote:Well.
1. I don't think there has been enough time for anyone to actually particularly react to my list.
2. I only did it because I was asked.
3. Would you like some cheese?


1. Maybe. That fact have not give a read on you. Time passes. It is giving a read on certain players.
2. Does that make a difference?
3. Yes, please. I'm going to coock lecho today. Do you want some? (Sausage excluded, sorry. I'm a vegetarian.)

1. Maybe.
2. Very much so - if it's something I didn't intend or wish to do than a read list lacking clear thoughts or statements is...well, not shocking. However, if it is one I do and present - then if the answers are hollow and barely there it begs the question of 'why did he bother posting that?'.
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Post Post #1053 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:34 am

Post by Nero Cain »

Why am I townish, Thor?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #1054 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:42 am

Post by Thor665 »

Why? Do I need to convince you you're town?
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Post Post #1055 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:45 am

Post by T S O »

In post 42, Aneninen wrote:Hi,

I haven't fokking read anything and won't do so right now because I'll go to work soon. However, I like the fact that there are 21 players here. Obviously, I won't self-vote so I can roll a d20 for a RVS vote.

VOTE: Boonskiies

Oh. Reasoning for the vote. We want to adopt a kitty and my sweetheart is talking about one who was posted on Facebook yesterday. If we had that kitty right now, he would vote on you. We must respect the kitty's will.

In post 131, Aneninen wrote:I've only looked into the thread – so, basicly I still haven't read the thread – but I can tell you one thing because it's important.
Csareo's gameplay is a null.

In this game
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=58778
I replaced into his slot and his gameplay was so scummy that he got lynched on Day1. Our slot was Vanilla Town. "He got lynched" = there was a mod error. Noone noticed before Day2 that he had been lynched before I replaced into his slot. Due to this error the game needed to be abandoned.

In post 223, Aneninen wrote:Aaaaand fck the shyt, I had been nearly finished with my catchup when I misclicked and it's gone.
Fortunately, there are not too many things to post about.
Csareo is being Csareo right on Page2. And he goes on like that which is a null and basicly, most of the posts are related to him. In the game I linked he did the very same.
That post-pair from Nero, calling Csareo not-town and town in his next post is a WTF.
Also, need we care about those Day1/2 stuffid claims?

Unfortunately, I have no real reads yet. Mostly because of Csareo, who has been drawing away the focus of the game.
However,
@Those who're scumreading them: what's the case against TSO? What's the case against Toby? These things might be based upon real content but I'm simply too tired to distill the very little real content out of the Csareo–respond-to-Csareo–Csareo–another-respond–Csareo... rondo.

In post 241, Aneninen wrote:
In post 231, TobyLoby wrote:Anen: I mean, I'm reading what you're saying as you having seen Csareo play similarly before and he was town, but you're also calling his play here a null.


Having thought about this question (I woke up about an hour ago) I must admit, my null-read is based upon the assumption that a scum!Csareo wouldn't have a very different gameplay. (I didn't find any games which he was surely scum in.) However, in Mini#1601 (before replaced into his slot on Day1) he had done more vote and read-flipping than here. We must remember this, though this may be a sing of a kind of improvement of his gameplay.

@Thor. I re-checked TOS. He
should
know Csareo's gameplay well – yet he's putting too much effort into his conversation with him. Also, TSO had voted for "Caesar" and our mod posted that his vote wouldn't be counted. TSO hasn't correct his vote since then (nor did another vote), as far as I can see. These things are disturbing.

In post 250, Aneninen wrote:TSO knows how terrible Csareo is on Day1 and he also knows that he was town in that game. I simply don't understand why TSO's maintaining a long interaction with Csareo – he must have known that by getting involved in that would increase the "noise" in the thread. It's definitely anti-town and – in my opinion – scummy too.
There's something else which is merely an intuition. What if both of them are scum(s) and their Day1 is purely intentional?

In post 338, Aneninen wrote:@Tiershift: TSO started interacting with Csareo around post 90 or so and maybe he stopped doing it right before your post, . After that he started talking with Cho.
@Cho: I don't understand why you are willing to sheep Tiershift. He may be town but I can't see any obv-town signs in his posts.
@TobyLoby: No, I said TSO should have ignored Csareo instead of interacting with him. As for the other part, you might be right.

Goodmorning may be town but I'm unsure. (Why were you asking about her, Toby?)
I think Thor is town.
It's only an intuition but Muffin gives me scum vibes.

Can someone explaining why outing the existence of neighbourhood (neighbourhoods?) is a towntell? Prove me if I'm wrong but being in a neighbourhood is a null right now.

In post 357, Aneninen wrote:@Toby.
Goodmorning has been writing contentful posts, even when he responded to Csareo. Eg. , , , ... Plus, TSO had a game with Csareo before and Goodmorning hadn't (as far as I know). And I really liked .

For TSO, see the next part.

@TierShift. I don't know whether it was intentional but I still thought it was a noise. Eg. /, , , (the only informative part was ), most of the part, ... need I search for more? Frankly, I have a lot to do today and I don't want to get tired before my work starts.

Though, I must admit that I might have misread the situation because I don't find entertaining reading Csareo-posts. If I weren't strongly against WotC-s I'd choose Csareo for that. But, I think his gameplay may improve later.

(Side-note. Yes, I know I'm shyt too. I realized it a couple of days ago. But, if you think that I'm producing VI-posts, please explain me why. I really want to improve and if I got WotC-ed later many times I wouldn't have the chance for it. And playing Mafia is fun.)

Toby may be town. She's scumhunting actively, in my opinion.

In post 418, Aneninen wrote:Catching-up.

Tiershift,
"You're arguing it's noise, while others are arguing "scum would never be so abrasive/genuinely pissed". What do you think about the latter take?"
– to tell the truth, I don't remember whether you asked this about TSO or Csareo. As for TSO, check the latter part and he gave scum vibes at that point of the game. GrayFox may be town, because of his catchup (at that point).

Garmr, : This was just WTF. What Tha Fukk.

Izariael. "The owls are not what they seem". ^_^

Thor, – goodpost.

Goodmorning, – can you explain your townread on TSO?

Toby, – also, why are you townreading TSO?
"Anen coming into the thread after RVS and posting Csareo meta while not commentating on his personal feelings of Csareo's play is more weird than backing off. It's excusing Csareo's behavior using meta without commenting on what is going on here. Also, when I see town meta used as reasoning to maybe excuse someone's play, I feel like I should be reading it as townie and not to read as null."

Maybe I failed to express myself before. Csareo's gameplay in that game was &#@%!NoobScum and he was town. I simply don't think that he could perform (or now: could have performed) a better gameplay as scum. That'swhy he was null. Do you understand it now?

Cho, – thanks for that OMGUS vote, that really helped a lot. ^_^ (Again, why are you townreading TSO?) Plus, Toby pointed it out that Davesaz isn't voting for you.

Garmr, – that vote, uhhh. If you have told that you had voted for Boonskiies because of lurking and producing nothing I would have believed it. But, what kind of reasoning was that?



_____

TSO. What I don't like is here:
– it's just a feeling but these seemed to be fake.
"I don't lurk as scum. Aneninen, Cho, Egg, Thor and Pere have all seen my scumgame when it's working decently. You can ask them."

"I really don't agree with anything Aneninen is saying right now."
– soooo, if I posted I knew how you played as scum would you disagree with me? ^_^
– whattafukk was that bullshyt? A quote-wall which contains nothing from or about me and asking Thor about me? How does that make sense? ( – what kind of explanation was that?
"That quote string is me going through the thread convinced I was right - ignore it."
– What did you examine?)


_____

PeregrineV-mix.
"Anything I should look for?"

– a naked vote right after Izariael's vote (in that post Izariael wrote 1 line about Scripten) is FoS.
– that's pigeon poop. Even Izariael didn't understand the sheeping.
And from this point, those slow, over-detailed null-catchups – including the random votes and the joke-claims. , , .

He must be scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: PeregrineV

_____
some reads.

Tiershift is town. I like his posts. I'm almost ready to sheep him if needed. (Isn't it ironic, Cho? ^_^)
Thor is town. His posts are good, they are about scumhunting. (Also, I've seen town-Thor and scum-Thor – though only 1–1 games – and This is Town-thor. He's another player I'd sheep if needed ^_^)
Toby is town, I think.
Cho – unsure. I didn't find her scummy before but that vote was uhh.
TSO is scummy. See the part above.
Garmr is FoS-Scum.
Goodmorning is still town, no change here.
GrayFox may be town but we need more posts.


hey Axle, this is at #418 and this list is already ridiculously long - not going to bother continuing.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #1056 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:49 am

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 1054, Thor665 wrote:Why? Do I need to convince you you're town?

no, I read fine but I want to see if you have a legit town read or if you are just appeasing me, but also didn't you have me as a somewhat scummy read? If so, what did I do to change that?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #1057 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:54 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1042, Garmr wrote: [...] Also he admits he doesn't even think Boon is town he just wants to
discredit
my points which he didn't.


Hi I might have missed it but i reallly dont think so.

Your statement above speaks exactly to the point of motivation
I believe he has stated he does not accept your points about Boon. He said exactly that recently Aneneinen: "Another possible interpretation would be the following. "I'm not saying that he's town. He may be scum. But, NOT because of your reasons.""

Did he actually say "he just wants to discredit", or did he really say he disagrees with the validity of your statements/reasons.

To me that's a scum that doesn't want to make his read look bad but backfires.


If it incontrovertible (because he '
admits
' it) that he "
just wants to discredit you
" then I agree, that is exceedingly scummy. Please show me your claim is true.
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Post Post #1058 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:58 am

Post by T S O »

I was really enjoying this game but now it's beginning to bore me. Not sure why.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #1059 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:59 am

Post by T S O »

If you want a way to alleviate my boredom, how about a nice QUICKWAGON on Aneninen!
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #1060 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:00 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1056, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1054, Thor665 wrote:Why? Do I need to convince you you're town?

no, I read fine but I want to see if you have a legit town read or if you are just appeasing me, but also didn't you have me as a somewhat scummy read? If so, what did I do to change that?

:neutral:

Well, first off, that scumminess was back in RVS, and second off - since when do I need to buddy you? I mean, seriously, you're not even around much or pushing much - you as an ally at this stage is pretty meaningless on a strategic basis.

So, yes, I'm buddying you - react accordingly.
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Post Post #1061 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:03 am

Post by T S O »

In post 1050, Aneninen wrote:
Until your willingness to change your attitude equals zero,

* * * COMMUNICATION IS TERMINATED * * *


This doesn't even make sense in the only weird way it could possibly make any fucking sense at all!
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #1062 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:09 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1055, T S O wrote:hey Axle, this is at #418 and this list is already ridiculously long - not going to bother continuing.

Bullshit.
quit mucking around.

I aksed you too.
AXLE:
" I will expect you to show me the stuff that you saw back then that is so bad(disgreed with) (not just that it is unarguably bad) but that you conclude for it to be that bad Aneninen must be or is quite likely to be scum, because as town he would not be that bad."

You gave me a wall of quotes.
(and yeah within th letter of what I said you showed it to me ... geee ta. Now explain how those are so "bad Aneninen must be or is quite likely to be scum, because as town he would not be that bad.".)
BULLSHIT They are all so bad they cant (or are unlikely to come from a town Aneninen.

Indeed as you chose the sample, I will pick from that.

Consider just the first one that you chose to include but could have left out.

It is Aneninens first RVS vote.

I suspect its true(likelyish) (that as I think PereV) pointed out that RVS vote was not random and done with a dice.
(That is however a guess based on the fact that boonskies is not a big scary RVS vote but a somewhat safer 'peer', and someone Aneninen knows.)
Frankly if town Aneninen wanted to 'choose' a random vote as the first person to interact with and get a feel for thats about the towniest choice I can think of for him, as he stands reasonable chance of making progress on a boonksies read early.

Now you explain how that one post is so bad you think it cant come from a town Aneninen.
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Post Post #1063 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:11 am

Post by Nero Cain »

I'm asking you a very simple question Thor. I see no reason why you are acting out.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #1064 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:13 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1063, Nero Cain wrote:I'm asking you a very simple question Thor. I see no reason why you are acting out.

And I told you I was buddying you - so you should react to that or not.

As regards TSO v. Axle - at the moment I'm actually on Axle's side.
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Post Post #1065 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:18 am

Post by T S O »

In post 42, Aneninen wrote:Hi,

I haven't fokking read anything and won't do so right now because I'll go to work soon. However, I like the fact that there are 21 players here. Obviously, I won't self-vote so I can roll a d20 for a RVS vote.

VOTE: Boonskiies

Oh. Reasoning for the vote. We want to adopt a kitty and my sweetheart is talking about one who was posted on Facebook yesterday. If we had that kitty right now, he would vote on you. We must respect the kitty's will.


He rolled a dice for his RVS vote, before then giving reasoning for the vote.

Why do fucking both of them?
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #1066 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:20 am

Post by T S O »

But, fwiw, #1064 is fucking ridiculous. You admit all of his posts are shit then you pick the one which is hardest to back up? What the fuck are you doing?
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #1067 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:28 am

Post by AxleGreaser »

In post 1065, T S O wrote:
In post 42, Aneninen wrote:Hi,

I haven't fokking read anything and won't do so right now because I'll go to work soon. However, I like the fact that there are 21 players here. Obviously, I won't self-vote so I can roll a d20 for a RVS vote.

VOTE: Boonskiies

Oh. Reasoning for the vote. We want to adopt a kitty and my sweetheart is talking about one who was posted on Facebook yesterday. If we had that kitty right now, he would vote on you. We must respect the kitty's will.


He rolled a dice for his RVS vote, before then giving reasoning for the vote.

Why do fucking both of them?


Its RVS, making up bullshit is fun?

WHy is it scummy?
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Post Post #1068 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:48 am

Post by Thor665 »

^^^
Agreed.

Also the reasoning was about a kitty.
I'm pretty sure he could have done that for whomever he rolled.
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Post Post #1069 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:06 am

Post by Egg »

In post 739, davesaz wrote:Scum will have knowledge of all neighborhoods they have a member in. Town does not have general neighborhood knowledge, unless we reveal the neighborhoods before any of us are eliminated. The only knowledge that scum* gain from reveals is any neighborhoods they don't have members in. It doesn't seem to help scum.

Things which reduce the gap between what scum know and what town know is good for town.

(*) Scum and other factions <if any>


^this kind of looks like being too careful not to slip knowledge of how many factions there are.
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Post Post #1070 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:22 am

Post by Muffin »

In post 1069, Egg wrote:
In post 739, davesaz wrote:Scum will have knowledge of all neighborhoods they have a member in. Town does not have general neighborhood knowledge, unless we reveal the neighborhoods before any of us are eliminated. The only knowledge that scum* gain from reveals is any neighborhoods they don't have members in. It doesn't seem to help scum.

Things which reduce the gap between what scum know and what town know is good for town.

(*) Scum and other factions <if any>


^this kind of looks like being too careful not to slip knowledge of how many factions there are.

Even when looked at in context of two other players arguing back and forth about multiball?
One's self-meta cannot be known without invalidating it.
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Post Post #1071 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:36 am

Post by Egg »

Yes.
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Post Post #1072 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:11 am

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 1064, Thor665 wrote:And I told you I was buddying you - so you should react to that or not.

vote:Thor
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #1073 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:20 am

Post by T S O »

In post 1067, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 1065, T S O wrote:
In post 42, Aneninen wrote:Hi,

I haven't fokking read anything and won't do so right now because I'll go to work soon. However, I like the fact that there are 21 players here. Obviously, I won't self-vote so I can roll a d20 for a RVS vote.

VOTE: Boonskiies

Oh. Reasoning for the vote. We want to adopt a kitty and my sweetheart is talking about one who was posted on Facebook yesterday. If we had that kitty right now, he would vote on you. We must respect the kitty's will.


He rolled a dice for his RVS vote, before then giving reasoning for the vote.

Why do fucking both of them?


Its RVS, making up bullshit is fun?

WHy is it scummy?


It's not scummy? I just disagree with it. That was why I SAID that I didn't agree with anything Aneninen had said.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
-Marquis
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Post Post #1074 (ISO) » Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:20 am

Post by T S O »

Don't get me wrong, though, he's done plenty of scummy shit.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
-Marquis
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