NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #1000 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:59 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 860, Aneninen wrote:Scripten – What's the story here? All I can see is a moderately-active townie who (maybe?) waits for more content and reads. Have I missed something? Also, I find it strange that Scripten is mentioned many more times than according to the amount of his content should have been. Lean town.


I would like more elaboration on this, as to why he leans town.
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Post Post #1001 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:03 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 869, TierShift wrote:catch-up sorta finished.

Boon, claim your role if it confirms multiball.

As much as I hate voting with thor, peregrine's read on thor for the multiball comment is actually scummy as fuck.

VOTE: pere
Shit.

closer looks at anen, muffin and iza coming up tomorrow.


Quote my read on Thor to show you understand it.
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Post Post #1002 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:07 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 887, T S O wrote:Right now, my final thoughts are that I support both wagons if and until I get a satisfactory explanation from Pere - that is, an answer which isn't a) silence or b) semantics.


The question being......
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Post Post #1003 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:11 am

Post by Aneninen »

Okay.
It seems that many of the active players are doing the following:
(1) calling me scum regardless of my posts
(2) trying to discredit me in every possible way (the most "popular" amongst these way are the "he's unable to understand our posts" and the "he's unable to make rational arguments")
(3) talking AT me instead of talking TO me.

It's clear that some of the players have a GREAT interest in the things above, so as to reach a situation where the possible answers for EVERYTHING which comes from me are
(1) I don't care because he's scum
(2) I don't care because he's an idiot.

I DO have ideas about the emergence of this situation and I do have about the players who have interest in it but, it seems that someone else will have to discover these facts because these would be discredited pieces of information if they were coming from my slot.

Mind these:

If you WERE interested in my answers you could have asked questions. It didn't happen.
If you NEEDED information for getting a read on me you could have maintained a real communication instead of asking OTHERS about me. It didn't happen.
If you WERE really thinking that I didn't understand your posts or I was unable to express myself, you could have pointed out the concerning bits of information so as to resolve all the possible misunderstandings. It didn't happen.

Therefore, from now on, I refuse to communicate with the players mentioned above because it's pointless. Should you change your attitude, I'd change my attitude too.

Feel free to lynch me. It's not true that I don't care. In this particular game I strongly think that my lynch would be LITERALLY an informational lynch. After my flip my alignment will be cleared and there will be plenty of time for reading this Day again to get plenty of information – despite the fact that many of the players WILL be saying "he was lynched because he was stupid".

Remember one fact. I'm not the best player on this forum but, I'm not an idiot.
Never underestimate anyone. (Especially a player who has been tried to be killed IN REAL LIFE before.)

_____

post-edit. PeregrineV, your question about Scripten is noted.
This
is unseful kind of communication, I'll answer it but it's possible that the answer will come tomorrow.
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Post Post #1004 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:14 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1002, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 887, T S O wrote:Right now, my final thoughts are that I support both wagons if and until I get a satisfactory explanation from Pere - that is, an answer which isn't a) silence or b) semantics.


The question being......

You should read less in ISO and more in context.

In post 882, Thor665 wrote:
In post 878, T S O wrote:Can you then walk me through why being nonsensical merits this large wagon?

That's the bit I haven't got this whole game.

The point is that he is advancing it as a serious and legit tell.
Was asked to explain it and didn't even defend the tell, but instead got mealy mouthed around it.


Now, feel free to go meta Pere and find me a town game with him both advancing a derp tell *and* not backing it up loudly if called on it as being derp.
That's the case.

That is the question.
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Post Post #1005 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:15 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 936, davesaz wrote:FWIW, going through reviews of various players. I reviewed some posts of Muffin. I would call this town with some pretty good confidence.


I see nothing in those posts that make me say "Holy shit Muffin is town!" Can you point out specifically what is it about those posts that can't come from scum?

pedit:I see you posting Thor, but I'm catching up so will get there when I do.
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Post Post #1006 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:17 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 999, Thor665 wrote:My issue is that someone said 'hey, barring multiball this makes sense"
And I said 'there is no reason to rule out multiball, I find it safe to presume it'
And you're like 'dat makes Thor scum!'


And for the record, the above is what I present as your case, and no one has raised issues with my version yet - so that's what they see when they are ssessing the case.
I suppose to be fair I should add 'makes him scum if this is multiball' as that is what you said - but it still fails to make any sense as something to decide there considering the conversation.
And when asked about it you just repeat your quote and act like there's nothing strange in believing what you claim to believe.
I think there is, and at least a few people think you could explain it better.
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Post Post #1007 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:20 am

Post by Thor665 »

Like, would your case still hold true if this was the conversation;

My issue is that someone said 'hey, barring multiball this makes sense"
And I said 'there is no reason to presume multiball, I find it safe to never presume it'
And you're like 'dat makes Thor scum if this is not multiball!'

Or

My issue is that someone said 'hey, barring SK this makes sense"
And I said 'there is no reason to rule out SKl, I find it safe to never presume it'
And you're like 'dat makes Thor scum if there is an SKl!'

My issue is that someone said 'hey, barring Cop this makes sense"
And I said 'there is no reason to rule out Cop, I find it safe to presume it'
And you're like 'dat makes Thor Cop!'

It's the same logic.
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Post Post #1008 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:21 am

Post by T S O »

*waves hand to Aneninen*
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #1009 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:22 am

Post by Thor665 »

I find it is safe never to rule out flying ninja Vatican assassin roles.
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Post Post #1010 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:23 am

Post by T S O »

Illuminati cult faction? You heard it here first.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #1011 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:25 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 952, Thor665 wrote:Is anyone planning to start a counter wagon?
Is anyone planning to help push this wagon into claim range?
Or were we going to talk in circles and wait till about 24 hours till deadline to get our act together and do either in a derp rush that allows scum to better hide motivations?


There are some.
I can claim now, although it's already pretty much been claimed.
Some people need to actually talk more, and some need to say things with their posts, so what's the hurry?
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Post Post #1012 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:48 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 999, Thor665 wrote:
In post 985, PeregrineV wrote:Pretty sure your case is "They said multiball and Pere didn't call them scummy. That makes Pere scummy."

I welcome anyone to point out otherwise.

Well...since I never said that was the case, I would challenge you to point out where I said what you're claiming my case is.

You originally voted me for voting Scripten.
After I post 501, you argue, to include this statement:
In post 605, Thor665 wrote:What's up with this? Why don't you walk me through how and why you actually think your catch on me is scummy and also why it doesn't apply to Nero or Goofy - that would be interesting to hear moreso than the weak word dance you're doing now.
and this
In post 614, Thor665 wrote:Actually I'm calling your entire use of logic here suspect and pointing out the double standard you are using n applying it and calling that scummy.
You have responded with further proof that you're either not really reading the game or are trying to bluster through my issues.
I don't feel like we're actually talking yet.
You're not talking openly, you're offering up misrepresented or half finished thoughts and then waving your hands wildly in the hopes this will go away.
I mean, look at the quote above. I asked you to explain how what I did was scummy - you didn't actually. You even admit that I wouldn't tend to do that as a slip which leaves...what exactly? If it wasn't a slip I was intentionally doing it? Okay...why? And why would it be scummy as opposed to, say, a town breadcrumb or something? Like, the logic just does not flow nor is it an answer as to why you concluded it was scummy.
When I aksed you what you thought of my opinion on you, you said:
In post 632, Thor665 wrote:That it is scummy, unsupported, a double standard (triple, really) and lazy whilst being used as a smokescreen for doing nothing.


I therefore conclude that
part of your case on my is me calling you out for saying multiball is a safe assumption
.
Is this conclusion inccorect?

I have pointed out a few things about you, the core of it is that you're not scumhunting and are being fake and lazy. That has actually been my point on you for quite some time.
If you want my issue with the 'multiball' comment then I would note that you can see it here;

In post 583, Thor665 wrote:Also, you called me scum for bringing up multiball...in relation to a discussion where someone brought up multiball...so, yes, I do think that's weird on your part.


My issue is not that others mentioned it (though I do think that is also telling)
My issue is that someone said 'hey, barring multiball this makes sense"
And I said 'there is no reason to rule out multiball, I find it safe to presume it'
And you're like 'dat makes Thor scum!'

Which...no...no it doesn't.
And you have still failed to explain how it does.
It is lazy and not scumhunting.
That was, is, and likely will remain my issue with you.

I think I said, should there be 2 scumteams, I will be pushing strongly for a Thor lynch. Given that 25% of 21-player large games have 2 scumteams, it seems the single-scum reponse would be to ignore or say "good luck with that" and the town response would be to ignore or say "good luck with that."
What I did not expect was "Well they said it it too!" defense.
Axle done detailed it, there is a difference in how it was said in in the context and conviction.
Which takes me back to , "if there are 2 scumteams, I'llbe looking at Thor."

It's actually setting a future condition which may or may not come true, and was but a single read of 20 other players.

As for lazy, you wish. I usually don't put much work into day1s because there's not much to get from them, usually. This game, however, has so many over-reactions and so many reads that I've been putting effort into it. Considering I have little idea on where you stand on the other 19 players, you could be not-lazy and tell us who is scum with me.
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Post Post #1013 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:48 am

Post by hephaestus »

UNVOTE:
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Post Post #1014 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:51 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 1003, Aneninen wrote:Mind these:

If you WERE interested in my answers you could have asked questions. It didn't happen.
If you NEEDED information for getting a read on me you could have maintained a real communication instead of asking OTHERS about me. It didn't happen.
If you WERE really thinking that I didn't understand your posts or I was unable to express myself, you could have pointed out the concerning bits of information so as to resolve all the possible misunderstandings. It didn't happen.


Your scumread and vote of me came without you doing any of these things to me. Explain the hypocrisy.
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Post Post #1015 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:53 am

Post by hephaestus »

In post 918, Thor665 wrote:
At least three people who read his situation with me have come back with scummy - and multiple others are at least voting him.
Why is your read null?


Meh, this multiball shitstorm means nothing to me tbh. Getting a few scummy vibes from his ISO but I'm not so sure you're town either.
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Post Post #1016 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:55 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 1004, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1002, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 887, T S O wrote:Right now, my final thoughts are that I support both wagons if and until I get a satisfactory explanation from Pere - that is, an answer which isn't a) silence or b) semantics.


The question being......

You should read less in ISO and more in context.

Who game so far has been in context except when back reading. ISO work comes after scumflips.

In post 882, Thor665 wrote:
In post 878, T S O wrote:Can you then walk me through why being nonsensical merits this large wagon?

That's the bit I haven't got this whole game.

The point is that he is advancing it as a serious and legit tell.
Was asked to explain it and didn't even defend the tell, but instead got mealy mouthed around it.


Now, feel free to go meta Pere and find me a town game with him both advancing a derp tell *and* not backing it up loudly if called on it as being derp.
That's the case.

That is the question.

The explanation is
In post 501, PeregrineV wrote:Should there turn out to be 2 scumteams, I'll probably strongly advocate for a Thor lynch.


Instead of attacking me for that explanation, why don't you explain why it's wrong for me to think that way. Explain why my logic does not how true.
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Post Post #1017 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:56 am

Post by PeregrineV »

EBWOP:
In post 1004, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1002, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 887, T S O wrote:Right now, my final thoughts are that I support both wagons if and until I get a satisfactory explanation from Pere - that is, an answer which isn't a) silence or b) semantics.


The question being......

You should read less in ISO and more in context.

Who game so far has been in context except when back reading. ISO work comes after scumflips.

In post 882, Thor665 wrote:
In post 878, T S O wrote:Can you then walk me through why being nonsensical merits this large wagon?

That's the bit I haven't got this whole game.

The point is that he is advancing it as a serious and legit tell.
Was asked to explain it and didn't even defend the tell, but instead got mealy mouthed around it.


Now, feel free to go meta Pere and find me a town game with him both advancing a derp tell *and* not backing it up loudly if called on it as being derp.
That's the case.

That is the question.

The explanation is
In post 501, PeregrineV wrote:Should there turn out to be 2 scumteams, I'll probably strongly advocate for a Thor lynch.


Instead of attacking me for that explanation, why don't you explain why it's wrong for me to think that way. Explain why my logic does not hold true.
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Post Post #1018 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:56 am

Post by T S O »

Ugh.

Pere, will you please fucking explain yourself?

PEdit: Your explanation doesn't make sense because you were independently scumreading Thor for saying it in your readslist despite multiball confirmation, iirc.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #1019 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:59 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 1006, Thor665 wrote:
In post 999, Thor665 wrote:My issue is that someone said 'hey, barring multiball this makes sense"
And I said 'there is no reason to rule out multiball, I find it safe to presume it'
And you're like 'dat makes Thor scum if this is multiball!'


I suppose to be fair I should add 'makes him scum if this is multiball' as that is what you said - but it still fails to make any sense as something to decide there considering the conversation.
And when asked about it you just repeat your quote and act like there's nothing strange in believing what you claim to believe.
I think there is, and at least a few people think you could explain it better.


Yes, corrected for you.

And I think I asked the question-
Why
is it strange to believe what I claimed?
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Post Post #1020 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:01 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 1018, T S O wrote:Ugh.

Pere, will you please fucking explain yourself?

PEdit: Your explanation doesn't make sense because you were independently scumreading Thor for saying it in your readslist despite multiball confirmation, iirc.


I'm sorry TSO,
BUT WHERE HAS THE GAME BEEN CONFIRMED TO HAVE 2 SCUMTEAMS. GIVE ME THE POST AND I'LL SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT THOR.
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Post Post #1021 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:01 am

Post by T S O »

you're right babe, it's meant to say *lack of multiball confirmation.

soz x
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #1022 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:08 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1012, PeregrineV wrote:I therefore conclude that
part of your case on my is me calling you out for saying multiball is a safe assumption
.
Is this conclusion inccorect?

No, I would agree that you calling me out is part of my case on you - I have said so on numerous occasions.

In post 1012, PeregrineV wrote:I think I said, should there be 2 scumteams, I will be pushing strongly for a Thor lynch. Given that 25% of 21-player large games have 2 scumteams, it seems the single-scum reponse would be to ignore or say "good luck with that" and the town response would be to ignore or say "good luck with that."
What I did not expect was "Well they said it it too!" defense.
Axle done detailed it, there is a difference in how it was said in in the context and conviction.
Which takes me back to , "if there are 2 scumteams, I'llbe looking at Thor."

It's actually setting a future condition which may or may not come true, and was but a single read of 20 other players.

This fails, yet again, to actually justify the tell nor to justify how what I did qualifies it as a tell and is not an explanation of the tell.
Though I will admit you did expand somewhat into 'Thor reacting negatively to a unexplained and nonsensical case equates to him being scummier' which *is* something new, but is also nothing about the original tell.

In post 1012, PeregrineV wrote:Considering I have little idea on where you stand on the other 19 players, you could be not-lazy and tell us who is scum with me.


Aeronaut - lurksack
AxleGrease - poor logic, no clear opinion beyond that. Probably scumish.
Aneninen - No idea, would not oppose lynch, would not support lynch.
Boonskiies - lurksack, begrudingly shifting to town due to Dave, but still a useless slot.
Cho - Lurksack.
GrayFoxxxx - Lurksack.
davesaz - Townish
Egg - Townish
Garmr - Townish
goodmorning - terrible...alignment uncertain ;) Meh, I'd help lynch her and consider it worthwhile probably.
Goofyd00d - Lurksack (mild town on prior to derping out and replace)
hephaestus - burning newb - no real vibe yet, still trying to even get him to commit to opinions.
Izariael - Newb, mild scum...very mild.
Muffin - Not fond of hard Thor defense. Call it mildly mild on the scum side.
Nero Cain - Townish
Scripten - I can remember having an opinion on him but can't recall what it is. If I was asked about him I'd ISO myself and repeat whatever I said last (townish?)
T S O - Townish
TierShift - Townish
TobyLoby - Lurksack.



@Hephaestus - why don't you walk me through your thoughts on both Pere and myself, and maybe a top scumread of the moment also? That would be sexy.
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Post Post #1023 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:09 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 1018, T S O wrote:Ugh.

Pere, will you please fucking explain yourself?

PEdit: Your explanation doesn't make sense because you were
independently scumreading
Thor for saying it in your readslist despite multiball confirmation, iirc.


In post 501, PeregrineV wrote:Kind of used to that, so
not a full on scumread
for that at this point.


Perhaps quoting me would be more productive, so we are talking about the same things.

I said it was statements like that which made me uncomfortable leaving him as a town read. He was falling back to null, and since I'm town, I can say whatever I'm feeling/thinking/whatever and let people take it as they may. I tried to give examples which caused those reads to develop, and did so for Aneninen, Scripten, Thor, and Goofyd00d.
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Post Post #1024 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:14 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1019, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 1006, Thor665 wrote:
In post 999, Thor665 wrote:My issue is that someone said 'hey, barring multiball this makes sense"
And I said 'there is no reason to rule out multiball, I find it safe to presume it'
And you're like 'dat makes Thor scum if this is multiball!'


I suppose to be fair I should add 'makes him scum if this is multiball' as that is what you said - but it still fails to make any sense as something to decide there considering the conversation.
And when asked about it you just repeat your quote and act like there's nothing strange in believing what you claim to believe.
I think there is, and at least a few people think you could explain it better.


Yes, corrected for you.

And I think I asked the question-
Why
is it strange to believe what I claimed?

I can barely explain that since I don't even understand why you find it scummy beyond "multiball".

But, in a generic sense, I think when someone is having a conversation about someone and makes a comment about multiball and then the other person responds...well, I don't think either of them are scummy, and in the vague concept of multiball being a tell I would say the first person is usually accredited as the scummier one in the way that tell that is stupid works.

That is like me saying - hey, TSO, do you think there are Cult?
And him going 'yes, no, maybe'
And someone suggesting he is Cult for brining up Cult - it doesn't jive.

Also, as we've now also established that I used multiball to include SK setups and you actually didn't state any adjustment of your read I continue to doubt that there is any actual thought behind the tell and your refusal to explain it is because you were making empty commentary and now are trying to bluster through it so you dont't need to justify the empty commentary.
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