NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #975 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:52 am

Post by T S O »

In post 966, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 965, T S O wrote:
In post 963, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 422, T S O wrote:You got your day of grace, Aneninen, it's gone.

Unvote
Vote: Aneninen


TSO can you walk me through where this vote comes from. I cant find it.

Spoiler: Yep you dont like his case on you
In post 421, T S O wrote:
In post 418, Aneninen wrote:
TSO. What I don't like is here:
– it's just a feeling but these seemed to be fake.
"I don't lurk as scum. Aneninen, Cho, Egg, Thor and Pere have all seen my scumgame when it's working decently. You can ask them."

"I really don't agree with anything Aneninen is saying right now."
– soooo, if I posted I knew how you played as scum would you disagree with me? ^_^
– whattafukk was that bullshyt? A quote-wall which contains nothing from or about me and asking Thor about me? How does that make sense? ( – what kind of explanation was that?
"That quote string is me going through the thread convinced I was right - ignore it."
– What did you examine?)


That's trash.

#304 - It's your opinion, you might be entitled to it - but it's wrong.
#381 - What possible problem could you have with this? Are you reading what you're posting?
#383 - What the hell is this meant to mean? I have literally no problem with you talking about the scum game of mine you played in. Is this meant to make me look scummy or something?
#400 - Get this, right? You see that quote string?
Those were the posts I was looking at!
No, really!


Spoiler: earlier you didnt agree with anything he was saying.
In post 383, T S O wrote:I really don't agree with anything Aneninen is saying right now.


I think by inference you have played with him before, does you disagreeing with his reads surprise you even if hes town?


You've literally got everything there which made him vote-worthy. Randomly accusing me of doing stuff he didn't like, and when I checked it out they made no fucking sense at all. I hadn't really agreed with anything he said so far and that was the final straw for me, really.


does you disagreeing with his reads surprise you even if hes town?


I'm not 100% sure I'm interpreting this right, but you can ask again if you have to.

I have no problem with people's reads differing from mine as long as they can back them up. I might try to change their opinion, sure, but at least they have a rational explanation for disagreeing with me. I do not feel Aneninen has ever produced something remotely like this; hence, he is scummy to me.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
-Marquis
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Post Post #976 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:58 am

Post by Thor665 »

Do you think he is normally capable of producing rational support for his arguments?
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Post Post #977 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:13 am

Post by T S O »

From my one game of experience with him, I get the feeling he was.

I was scum and he was town, but he was logical enough for me to defend him.

I'll go back and check, but you can assume I'm right on that.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #978 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:30 am

Post by PeregrineV »

Back- catching up today/tonight
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Post Post #979 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:14 am

Post by Nero Cain »

blatant prod dodge. This is my catchup day so expect a post later.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #980 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:19 am

Post by Aegor »

Replacing Goofyd00d and TobyLoby.
Currently partying at the
M A S Q U E R A D E
-- a Large Normal for 21 revelers.
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Post Post #981 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:38 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 663, Aneninen wrote:However, @PeregrineV, Thor was neither the only one and (as far as I can remember) nor the first one who was talking about a multiball. Why Thor is scummy? Why not the others? Because Thor started to build up a wagon against you?


Go back and look at what they said.
Go back and look at what Thor said.
Go back and look at what I said.
Get back to me.
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Post Post #982 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:40 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 665, Izariael wrote:
In post 660, PeregrineV wrote:You saw the reactions to the Scripten vote. What do you think of them (the reactions)?


Which Scripten vote? Yours or mine? I think there were different reactions to each.

Scripten's reaction to both votes hasn't done anything so far to alleviate a scumread on him, and has probably made it stronger since I'm currently feeling no inclination to move my vote. His reaction is not one that I'd anticipate from town who just got voted.
Thor's reaction to your vote wasn't unwarranted, which I would be tempted to townread, but his recent multiball exchange with you is making it hard to establish a townread or scumread on him. I didn't care much for his reaction to my vote though. Not only did he miss the reason for my vote, but then he spits on my ability to form reads. It's either gross town or gross scum. Either way, it's icky play.

I have to jolt over to work, but there were a couple of other players that I'd townread for their reactions, I just need time to find the posts in question. I'll get to this later.


I feel like your was mostly ignored. Mine was questioned and fought against by people not Scripten. If they had Scripten as town, then OK, but either null of no read has been most responses.
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Post Post #983 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:42 am

Post by Scripten »

In post 964, Aneninen wrote:
Which one of Cho's posts gave you town vibes?
I'm waiting for that "more to come".


()

While she is not a town read of mine, that post made her less scummy than other players. So I moved my vote.

I apologize, but just keeping up with this thread is difficult. My workload will be lifted come this thursday. (Got an exam tomorrow, a newspaper to write, and an essay due the day after.) I'm not exactly on V/LA, but my content is, as you have noted, lower than I'd like it to be. Larges are tough to be active in.
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Post Post #984 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:43 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 667, davesaz wrote:Thor engaged my post callng the multiball-related scumtells into question, where PeregrineV is just ignoring me.

While I find it distasteful that Thor focused more on the terminology and less on the content behind my posts, I can much more easily see that being town than actively avoiding the whole issue. I also find it pretty scummy that PeregrineV would focus on only Thor's mention as scummy, where at least two others have posted about roles.. One of which was before Thor.

VOTE: PeregrineV


Go back and look at what they said.
Go back and look at what Thor said.
Go back and look at what I said.
Get back to me.

Which posts were directed at me that you would like me to answer?
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Post Post #985 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:46 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 670, Thor665 wrote:
In post 655, T S O wrote:Would you help me vote Aneninen tomorrow if I go with this today?

Maybe. Maybe not.
If I have to buy your vote with that sort of weak promise then I don't want it.

In post 659, PeregrineV wrote:I'm not sure what the hell you were saying to Nero- maybe telling him he CAN be scum because it's a safe assumption that there is more than one non-town faction. In which case, not sure why you would think so, and not sure of your purpose in telling him that.

:neutral:
This post pretty much encapsulates the scum case on you.

I welcome anyone to go back to what I was saying to Nero and manage to get this info from the exchange.

I do not believe I have ever used the 'you're better than this' tell.
But you're better than this Pere. It's screwy. And you're acting like you're up to snuff, which makes it scummy.


Pretty sure your case is "They said multiball and Pere didn't call them scummy. That makes Pere scummy."

I welcome anyone to point out otherwise.
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Post Post #986 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:47 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 675, Aneninen wrote:In other words: compare the PeregrineV wagon and my one. On PeregrineV there were much content written. On me, almost nothing.


:lol:
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Post Post #987 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:49 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 682, Aneninen wrote:You can ISO me to see: apart from my random vote I've only voted for PeregrineV so far. And I posted my reasons for doing so.


I have quite a few of those.
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Post Post #988 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:50 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 692, Goofyd00d wrote:
In post 601, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 590, Thor665 wrote:
In post 126, Goofyd00d wrote:Considering 4 is the meta for almost garunteed, I would say 5 people in a hood contains a scum, and maybe even multi factions.

Here's another mention of multiball that didn't bother Pere.


Could be Goofy is scum.


I was trying to point out that a 5 neighborhood is suspicious in a time of the game where people were trying to deny that the neighborhood even had one mafia any. I wasn't implying this game had to be multiball

(I'm catching up and still at post 601, sorry if this is no longer relevant.)


@Thor :up:
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Post Post #989 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:53 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 705, Izariael wrote:
In post 547, PeregrineV wrote:
Izariael
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posting in the linked Newbie game.


Completely off-topic, but I shed a tear of joy when you finally spelled my name correctly and a tear of sadness when you got my pronoun incorrect. It's a whirlwind roller coaster of emotions right now. :giggle: :D :( :facepalm: :oops: :igmeou: :cool:


Typing is not my strong suit. Copy/pasted that time. :wink:
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Post Post #990 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:55 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 710, Izariael wrote:@PeregrineV: I'm actually very curious to know your stance on this. Do you think his bolded statement is something that should reassure us of his towniness?


A sample town PM is in the 1st or second post, so no, means nothing.
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Post Post #991 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:58 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 713, TierShift wrote:If this is a serious post, please elaborate.


If you're scum and not sure how to play in a large game you've never played in before, a self-vote will reveal absolutely nothing in the event of your flip, and so is a safe move to make as scum.
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Post Post #992 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:04 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 744, Thor665 wrote:
In post 743, TierShift wrote:You seem to be addressing me as though I've been Smurfing on you, which I haven't. What's up with the attitude?

It's a valid point I am raising - I want you to justify your issue. I am not saying you're doing anything bad (or good, for that matter), I am saying I want to understand your thoughts for why you are saying what you're saying.
Hint: I am scumhunting you.

In post 743, TierShift wrote:What gm whine?

Iso feature...
Though it just happened like a page ago and was addressed to you.
Basically a request to stop buddying me and re-read me - you're clearly reading the current stuff so why didn't you address it?
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Post Post #993 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:08 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 760, TierShift wrote:Okay thor, we seem not to be on the same page.

How things seemed to have gone according to me:

You call iza out for his flawed logic and say in the same post you are willing to lynch him.
This led me to believe you thought iza was scummy for flawed theory, which I took issue with. However, the quote below says you found it deserving of something resembling a PL, instead of finding it scummy.

thor wrote:
In post 754, TierShift wrote:You were arguing 1 and now you seem to be arguing 2. That's inconsistent.

I actually argued that #1 meant he deserved death,
I never argued that it made him scummy.

Next quote, however, shows you did find him scummy at that time, presumably for messing up theory.

You have not really addressed why you had issue with me questioning him
or finding his answers scummy.


I only take issue with you finding him scummy for genuine, flawed logic. It seemed to be you were doing that, but currently it is not clear to me anymore.


Amazingly, you feel like you are talking in circles with Thor.
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Post Post #994 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:15 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 773, Egg wrote:Pere, I didn't have a problem with you sheeping Izar. I was just trying to understand why you picked a player who wasn't very influential at that point in the game. However, there is also possible scum motivation in adding a vote right after a case is made like that even if that's not where I was going with the question.
It sounds like you have a problem withthe person I sheeped, then had a problem with sheeping. What's your position on Scripten, the subject of the vote?

Pere, why is your entire reads list either scum vibes or started town but now scum? You realize there are town players in this game, right?


Noy sure what you mean. Here's my old list, so who started as town and is now scum (not entire list, to be sure).
In post 501, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 491, TobyLoby wrote:
@Pere
, What are your thoughts now that you've read the thread?

Varied and probably not very exciting, but here goes.

Players:
1. Aeronaut*- In some twist of irony has fewer posts than me. We'll see what the catchup police have to say about him, I suppose.
2. Alina- replaced? being replaced?
3. Aneninen- early scumvibes. Later, saying and doing the right things, but taking the meticulous post-by-post approach with no analysis of the posts along with the stunningly empty conclusion of Pere is scum (418). This can easily be compared to Thor's with actual reasons (even if wrong).
4. Boonskiies- Probably scum
5. Cho- thought the mafia claim was good discussion starter. However, it never went anywhere after that, nor was it used to start discussion. For that, downgraded from town-rvs to null (I think psychologically that when scum claim scum it helps relieve their conscious about being scum. If others take it as fake/humor, so much the better. In any scumclaim cases, esp. RVS, ) Nothing has improved the null read, including the wagon on him.
6. GrayfoxxxxCsareo- I liked for town at the start. That diminshed somewhat by the TSO tunnel. Grayfoxx is still got some town sheen, and has not degraded it any since taking over. We'll see how it goes.
7. davesaz- Early scumvibes. Improved somewhat, but still hits me when I read some of his posts. There is scumhunting there, but it seems of the cautious type.
8. Egg- Liked his early push on me. His later self-doubt I read somewhat as town, but keeping your vote there after expressing that doubt takes away the town cred. This is one I'm be exploring more of later.
9. Garmr- probably town.
10. goodmorning- Another player I usually start reading with a town bias towards their posts. So when I read them and feel icky, not a good sign. Leaning scum.
11. Goofyd00d- Early scumvibes. Some of the things he says are contradictions in and of themselves. ( and are examples)
12. hephaestus*- skimmed and will catchup later
13. Izariael- Already discussed. early townlean, but high expectations expected.
14. Muffin- Torn here. Outing neighborhood protown, but votes Cho as scum same post. claims I scumposted without a definition of why it's scumposting (very similar to Aneninen).
15. Nero Cain- early townvibes. We'll see if these stay.
16. PeregrineV- So town! My God, so town!
17. Scripten- early scumvibes. Some wording makes me wonder.392- A vote on him for "town cred" can only be town cred if Scripten is scum. Stuff like that keeps me from calling you town.
18. T S O- I think he's town this game. Probably means he's scum. Not my issue, but not voting him right now.
19. Thor665- early townread, but then downhill (slowly) from there, as he votes opposite my opinion. Kind of used to that, so not a full on scumread for that at this point.
The worst Thor post was calling this game multiball ( and ) for pretty much no reason (because it's 21 players?!?). Should there turn out to be 2 scumteams, I'll probably strongly advocate for a Thor lynch. Until then, I'll go back and forth with and about him trying to figure out if he is town that I just don't get or scum trying to trick me. Always fun. :]
20. TierShift- very early scumvibe, went away slowly. I see peeks of town, but not enough. Null for now, looking for more.
21. TobyLoby- Early null. The styling of some of her posts I think is town, but their delivery and followup are not there. It's like a one-way questioning but I don't think I've seen responses to the responses to her questions. Slight null-scum, but waiting for a strong read to pop.

More on this multiball thing- When otherscum have otherscum to hunt for, it's easier for them to look town. If it does turn out to be 2 scumteams, that would explain why most of the active posters aren't looking too scummy- they are also scumhunting. But, not crossing that bridge until we get to it, if ever.
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Post Post #995 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:45 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 849, Thor665 wrote:Also, in all seriousness, go back and read the *conversation* wherein I brought up multiball.
Not the post, the conversation, and ask yourself if it seemed scummy in any way particularly that I brought it up.
Then ask yourself why Pere thought it was scummy.
Then go and look at how I asked him to explain and the way (shifty and not answering) he chose to respond.


I'd like to see that. Pretty sure I explained it and you said you did not understand.

In post 659, PeregrineV wrote:
In post 653, Thor665 wrote:
In post 651, PeregrineV wrote:You do not understand what I am saying (the logic of why I said it).

You disagree with what I'm saying? Or do you disagree with the logic which you do not understand?

I have stated the logic as I understand it, and said that I disagreed with it and asked for clarification on the logic if such exists.
You are playing word games.

No word games.
And no, the abosolute best way I can explain it I already have:

-I think that you saying that this game is obviously multiple mafia teams implies some sort of inside knowledge of the setup that you did not relate to the thread at the start of the game. Most commonly, this is through a scum role designation of specific mafia (Blue, Red, Mafia A, etc.), and less commonly through a town role (Mafia A cop, Red Mafia Cop, etc.).


Then, Axle explained it. You kind of blew him off though.
In post 809, AxleGreaser wrote:Level of certainty expressed.
Yours contains a much stronger belief in multiball than the others. If at the time Pere did not know (or recall) that that was backed by some facts then I can see him triggering harder of your statement than theirs as he would wonder where the certainty came from.


You are kind of doing the same to Tiershift, where you can't seem to grasp what they are saying or why they are saying it.

I almost hesitate to use intentionally obtuse, but it's coming close to that. It also opens the avenue for you to attack anyone who doesn't continually TRY to clarify as "probable scum". And when they clarify, you still don't "get it", and blame them.

And would like the exact details of what you don't like about my reads (as you said in ) that you are trying to paint as fake.
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Post Post #996 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:51 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 851, TierShift wrote:
In post 848, Thor665 wrote:If he had openly stated he was skimming/sipping stuff - no worries.
But he didn't, he chose to present like he read.
He was probably lying about that.
Why do you think town Pere would do that?

Is scumperegrine known to do these things?
I'll reread when completing catchups.

In post 853, Thor665 wrote:Townperegrine is known *not* to do those things.

I'd answer this for myself if I knew the question.

Do I sometimes skim/skip as town? Yes.
Do I sometimes read it all as town? Yes.
Do I sometimes skim/skip as scum? Yes, but less often than as town.
Do I sometimes read it all as scum? Yes, so I don't bugger my buddies with bad play.
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Post Post #997 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:54 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 855, Nero Cain wrote:follow up: If PV gets lynched and flips town are you going to want to lynch Thor/Egg?


You know, a wise man once said "If it turns out to be multiple scum teams, I'll be pushing hard for a Thor lynch."

This is also based on the fact I was in a neighborhood with Thor and Egg. Their neighborhood play is fairly null. You can read it as if they are town and think, yeah, OK, town. You could read it as if they were scum and go, yeah, they're scum.

If it turns out to be 2 scumteams, then Egg/Thor are probably not on the same team.

Anymore scumhunting in my neighborhood will either have to be done tonight or not by me.
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Post Post #998 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:56 am

Post by PeregrineV »

In post 856, davesaz wrote:haven't even developed a read on Egg yet.


Why not? You have 30 posts, they have 24. If you think all 24 Egg posts are null, then would like to hear that.
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Location: Venice, FL

Post Post #999 (ISO) » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:57 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 985, PeregrineV wrote:Pretty sure your case is "They said multiball and Pere didn't call them scummy. That makes Pere scummy."

I welcome anyone to point out otherwise.

Well...since I never said that was the case, I would challenge you to point out where I said what you're claiming my case is.

I have pointed out a few things about you, the core of it is that you're not scumhunting and are being fake and lazy. That has actually been my point on you for quite some time.
If you want my issue with the 'multiball' comment then I would note that you can see it here;

In post 583, Thor665 wrote:Also, you called me scum for bringing up multiball...in relation to a discussion where someone brought up multiball...so, yes, I do think that's weird on your part.


My issue is not that others mentioned it (though I do think that is also telling)
My issue is that someone said 'hey, barring multiball this makes sense"
And I said 'there is no reason to rule out multiball, I find it safe to presume it'
And you're like 'dat makes Thor scum!'

Which...no...no it doesn't.
And you have still failed to explain how it does.
It is lazy and not scumhunting.
That was, is, and likely will remain my issue with you.
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