NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #750 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:00 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 748, Garmr wrote:-_- are you fucking kidding me tier shift walk out this door right now. I was already thinking annienen was null- scum when he tried to chainsaw me on boon and couldn't respond and your trying to pin that moment as when I thought annienen might be scum. I may be newish thanks to my ban but I'm not fucking so stupid to let someone like you try to misrep me here. PS asking who is your top scum read is not a stupid question either.

I'm pointing out I found it weak. What about it is misrepping?
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Post Post #751 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:02 am

Post by Nero Cain »

Scripten, what do you think of me thinking you are the scum from my hood?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #752 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:10 am

Post by Garmr »

In post 750, TierShift wrote:
In post 748, Garmr wrote:-_- are you fucking kidding me tier shift walk out this door right now. I was already thinking annienen was null- scum when he tried to chainsaw me on boon and couldn't respond and your trying to pin that moment as when I thought annienen might be scum. I may be newish thanks to my ban but I'm not fucking so stupid to let someone like you try to misrep me here. PS asking who is your top scum read is not a stupid question either.

I'm pointing out I found it weak. What about it is misrepping?


The fact you were implying I was buddying Aneninen when I obviously think his scum.
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Post Post #753 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:12 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 749, Thor665 wrote:
In post 745, Thor665 wrote:
In post 742, Thor665 wrote:because your issue is that I didn't immediately read him as town...is that right?

@Tiershift

Pretty pretty please with sugar on top, my dearest friend can you address the question you're avoiding and forgive me for my harsh tone and stop using it as a reason to not answer me, oh sugar sweet'ums?

If you're intentionally choosing to not answer the question you should say so in order that I may assess that as opposed to just thinking you're not actually noticing this post and need it repeated.
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Post Post #754 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:17 am

Post by TierShift »

Thor, to me it seemed obvious that he was in fact thinking that his strong commitment to nullreads meant something. That doesn't make him look scummy in my book, it's just a different (and wrong, imo) take on theory. You were stating that different take made him scummy, but that doesn't work for me and it seemed to me you were overly focusing on the words instead of the intent. That was the issue I had with your read on izi.

Only now have you said that this different take on theory might be scum faking it and you're insinuating that that is what you were thinking earlier. But you didn't say that earlier and I did not know.

So tell me what it is, what he was scummy for:
1. Getting his theory wrong
2. Possibly faking wrong theory

You were arguing 1 and now you seem to be arguing 2. That's inconsistent.

@garmr: oh, my bad. When I say buddy tell I mean scummbuddy tell. I saw it as two scumbuddies sharing some words just for the sake of having shared some words later. I was only marking it as a consideration for if either of you flips scum.
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Post Post #755 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:26 am

Post by davesaz »

@thor, if you say one more time that TierShift is not answering the question, I'm going to want to know what question.
If you're trying to get an answer on the "goodmorning whine" then you're going about it the wrong way by quoting something completely different in your reminders.
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Post Post #756 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:28 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 754, TierShift wrote:Thor, to me it seemed obvious that he was in fact thinking that his strong commitment to nullreads meant something.

Though he didn't clarify this until after I pointed out the potential hypocrisy.

In post 754, TierShift wrote:That doesn't make him look scummy in my book, it's just a different (and wrong, imo) take on theory. You were stating that different take made him scummy, but that doesn't work for me and it seemed to me you were overly focusing on the words instead of the intent. That was the issue I had with your read on izi.

Please describe how the intent looks town?
Because I can see the intent as poor play and I can see the intent as scummy - I fail to see it as pro-town. Am I missing something?

In post 754, TierShift wrote:Only now have you said that this different take on theory might be scum faking it and you're insinuating that that is what you were thinking earlier. But you didn't say that earlier and I did not know.

I never indicated you should know until I said - though you appeared able to track his thoughts quite clearly whilst mine remain opaque. I personally think it was fairly clear what my issue is, but it's a false complaint to suggest that I was expressing poor play on your part to understand my issue beyond the idea that I was scumhunting him.

In post 754, TierShift wrote:So tell me what it is, what he was scummy for:
1. Getting his theory wrong
2. Possibly faking wrong theory

As I have already stated; #2. Why am I needing to repeat this? I was quite clear about it only a few posts back.

In post 754, TierShift wrote:You were arguing 1 and now you seem to be arguing 2. That's inconsistent.

I actually argued that #1 meant he deserved death, I never argued that it made him scummy. Even when you called out my post the commentary was that I would be okay lynching him, not that I said he was a top scum read. The only one changing any stances here is you - and you're trying to change what my stance was stated as - I have not tried to change anything. :neutral:

You have not really addressed why you had issue with me questioning him or finding his answers scummy.
I think answering the 'why was his stance pro-town' note would justify your stance, if you can do that.
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Post Post #757 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:29 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 755, davesaz wrote:@thor, if you say one more time that TierShift is not answering the question, I'm going to want to know what question.
If you're trying to get an answer on the "goodmorning whine" then you're going about it the wrong way by quoting something completely different in your reminders.

TierShift was WELL aware of what I was asking about and just tried to answer it.
It is not my fault that you appear continually confused by what's going on.
In my opinion you need to read more carefully.

You remain a solid lynch option, and I do find you both scummy and anti-town.
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Post Post #758 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:30 am

Post by Scripten »

In post 751, Nero Cain wrote:Scripten, what do you think of me thinking you are the scum from my hood?


Kinda hard to form any real opinion on it. I don't know where your reads are, am either null- or town-reading other players in the hood, and I am speaking from a different PoV than you are. (You already know your own role. I already know mine.) There's too many variables for me to make a judgement call on that statement other than saying it's wrong.
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Post Post #759 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:41 am

Post by T S O »

Garmr is pretty town.

I actually like #758 as well. It'd be a pretty elegant answer for scum.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #760 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:47 am

Post by TierShift »

Okay thor, we seem not to be on the same page.

How things seemed to have gone according to me:

You call iza out for his flawed logic and say in the same post you are willing to lynch him.
This led me to believe you thought iza was scummy for flawed theory, which I took issue with. However, the quote below says you found it deserving of something resembling a PL, instead of finding it scummy.

thor wrote:
In post 754, TierShift wrote:You were arguing 1 and now you seem to be arguing 2. That's inconsistent.

I actually argued that #1 meant he deserved death,
I never argued that it made him scummy.

Next quote, however, shows you did find him scummy at that time, presumably for messing up theory.

You have not really addressed why you had issue with me questioning him
or finding his answers scummy.


I only take issue with you finding him scummy for genuine, flawed logic. It seemed to be you were doing that, but currently it is not clear to me anymore.
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Post Post #761 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:06 am

Post by Thor665 »

And, so, you ask me questions about it to try to understand me,

Tell me again your issue with my expressed thoughts and challenge of Izzy?
Also, you still haven't addressed the 'how what he did Thor should have taken as town' thing. Which is the basis behind having any issue with what I said and did at all, because if you don't get that then it's quite reasonable for me to find it null or scummy and certainly to question it.

As to the rest I feel I answered quite specifically here what my thoughts were;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p6268337

Which lines up to what I first said to you here;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6268266

Which also lines up with what I originally said, and you had issue with, here;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6261552

Which shows that my stance, my answers, and my expressed opinion have remained the same.
So why is this confusing to you and why do you think anything has changed?
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Post Post #762 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:08 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 760, TierShift wrote:presumably for messing up theory.

Pretty much this is as close as I can get to understanding your issue.
Except that it is literally nothing I have ever said - and is in fact something you decided I inferred.
And now you're sort of grumping about how the inference doesn't line up with my actions and statements.
Which really just says 'your inference is wrong -derp' to me.
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Post Post #763 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:39 am

Post by Egg »

Holy shit with the posting guys...
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Post Post #764 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:43 am

Post by PeregrineV »

Going out of town this weekend, but will catch up tonight.

@Aegor- V/LA this weekend- back Monday



Noted.

-A
Last edited by Aegor on Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #765 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:44 am

Post by Aneninen »

Started to cacth-up.

TSO, . By that point there was one single wagon. PeregrineV's. I'm on that because of my own reads, even if you don't believe it. Because I catched up with that post by reading and writing simultaneously I hadn't know how many votes there were on PeregrineV.
But, I think you'll gonna tunnel me regardless of my posts. (This is what I call "Regardless Of Card".)
However, I can see that you're focusing on others as well right now.

Garmrmr. I see that you thought I was trying to protect Boonskiies. It's my fault but I forgot to tell you something. I've known him from Mini #1585. In that game he had the same Day1 gameplay before he replaced out and he was town. That'swhy I thought he was town. (As for my reads now I need to follow the recent events.)

Axle. Why do you think there is a "4th party"?

Goodmorning,
"I think perhaps the number of Neighbourhoods would be useful to know, but then I think if it turns out everyone's in a neighbourhood then they could easily have been generated randomly, which would tell us nothing."
– And that sums my thoughts about the Neighbourhood topic. I'd been thinking this even before the game started.

In post 720, Scripten wrote:
Because an easily-compiled list of neighborhood composition is pro-town.


No, it is not. I think you've just wanted to earn some town-credit.

TierShift,
"I find the reactions to 360 and 412 scummy. Feels like he doesn't want to get associated with anyone or speak up to anyone."
– Why were those posts scummy? The latter part is not true. Whom should I speak up anyway? Those who are among my townreads are not wagoned right now. (1 vote maximum.) What do you want? Another playerlist?

Thor, are you scumreading TierShift?

Everyone: maybe my catchup is shorter and less detailed than usual. (1) Most of the posts were about the Neighbourhoods, you can read my opinion above. (2) I know it's only my word but there is at least one scum on my wagon. (Most probably TSO.) I still think that my wagon length is absurd compared to the posts about me and to the amount of my posts. You might not believe me now but these things will be important later. (3) My sweetheart has just arrived home while I've been writing this and her tattoo is ready. ^_^
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Post Post #766 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:10 am

Post by T S O »

why do you feel the need to constantly justify being illogical at worst or surface deep at best with your analysis

and why do you feel the need to constantly warn people about your wagon?
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #767 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:14 am

Post by Aegor »

Votecount 1.6


[1]
Aeronaut:
goodmorning
[3]
Aneninen:
T S O, Garmr, Cho
[3]
Cho:
Grayfoxxxx, Goofyd00d, Boonskiies
[2]
Nero Cain:
TobyLoby, hephaestus
:right: [6]
PeregrineV:
Egg, Thor665, Muffin, Aneninen, Scripten, davesaz
[3]
Scripten:
Izariael, PeregrineV, AxleGreaser
[1]
TobyLoby:
Nero Cain
[1]
T S O:
TierShift

[1]
Not Voting:
Aeronaut

With 21 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline:
(expired on 2014-10-18 22:12:03)

Mod Notes

PeregrineV is V/LA this weekend
Currently partying at the
M A S Q U E R A D E
-- a Large Normal for 21 revelers.
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Post Post #768 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:18 am

Post by Aneninen »

In post 766, T S O wrote:and why do you feel the need to constantly warn people about your wagon?


I'll explain it later.


In post 766, T S O wrote:why do you feel the need to constantly justify being illogical at worst or surface deep at best with your analysis?


I don't think I'm illogical. I'm asking you as well: do you want a readlist?
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Post Post #769 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:20 am

Post by T S O »

I'm telling you I really couldn't care less because I am becoming more and more convinced that you are scum - but whatever floats your boat.

I do look forward to your response about the wagon, though - dazzle me.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #770 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:24 am

Post by hephaestus »

Hey Anen! Trying to find a game where you played as scum, help me out?
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Post Post #771 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:25 am

Post by hephaestus »

Readlist (probably incomplete) when I get home from work or tomorrow morning
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Post Post #772 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:27 am

Post by T S O »

He has no finished scumgames on site.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
-Marquis
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Post Post #773 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:44 am

Post by Egg »

Well, may as well read some of this. Won't finish.

TSO wrote: Well, I don't really have experience of reading Cho, seeing as I was scum, but the difference here is Cho is being strangely irrational, as opposed to someone nailing her on something trivial like "Day 1 Unlynchables." Also, she didn't vote for people for no reason there.


I feel like being irrational was a big part of the case against her in that game. And the unlynchable thing was a small part of a much larger case. It seems to me like you are downplaying how easy it was for you as scum to make a case against Cho and that makes me a little uncomfortable about your push on her here.

Pere, I didn't have a problem with you sheeping Izar. I was just trying to understand why you picked a player who wasn't very influential at that point in the game. However, there is also possible scum motivation in adding a vote right after a case is made like that even if that's not where I was going with the question.

Pere, why is your entire reads list either scum vibes or started town but now scum? You realize there are town players in this game, right?

For the record, I like Aninen's pigeons.

Goodmorning, why would you say you are reaction testing before you get the reaction? Isn't that kind of counterproductive?

I'm through page 22 (mostly for my own reference)
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Post Post #774 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:49 am

Post by Aneninen »

In post 770, hephaestus wrote:Hey Anen! Trying to find a game where you played as scum, help me out?


There are no examples for that. I'm always town. Just like in IRL games. The legendary Aneninen-ish 2% scumrate. Ask the same thing a year later or so.
On another site (which is not a mafia-forum but sometimes they launch Mafias) once I drew SK (non-consecutive-Night SK lol) but the setup was a role madness and so swingy that the game was broken on Day2. I got lynched on Day3 or so and I had not even a mathematical chance for winning. (A pity because I produced at least 2 WIFOMs in every single post lol.) I can link that if you wish.
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