NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER


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Post Post #725 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:54 am

Post by T S O »

In post 722, Thor665 wrote:
A neighborhood just got claimed, how are you feeling about that?


A little irritated. I don't think it's indicative of his alignment, but there wasn't really any need to randomly toss it out there.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #726 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:54 am

Post by T S O »

Are you feeling something I'm not, Thor?
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #727 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:58 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 407, TobyLoby wrote:
@Tiershift
,

In post 359, TierShift wrote:I don't like this post and I'll research you now.


What about Gamr's post don't you like?

The fact that he was 'lost' at a time in day 1 where reads are being formed and confusion is low. I didn't find it likely for town to be lost in such a spot, but scum can obviously say they're lost. I'm a little bit more comforted by recent garmr posting, but still bland bland bland. I'll see after full catchup.

In post 412, Cho wrote:Also, my vote on T S O was premature and fueled by illogical desires. I think he's town.

VOTE: davesaz

This is a temporary OMGUS vote, in lieu of a solid scumread to focus on at the moment. I'm a bit disconnected from this game.

What happened to sheeping me?
Spoiler: anen post
In post 418, Aneninen wrote:Catching-up.

Tiershift,
"You're arguing it's noise, while others are arguing "scum would never be so abrasive/genuinely pissed". What do you think about the latter take?"
– to tell the truth, I don't remember whether you asked this about TSO or Csareo. As for TSO, check the latter part and he gave scum vibes at that point of the game. GrayFox may be town, because of his catchup (at that point).

Garmr, : This was just WTF. What Tha Fukk.

Izariael. "The owls are not what they seem". ^_^

Thor, – goodpost.

Goodmorning, – can you explain your townread on TSO?

Toby, – also, why are you townreading TSO?
"Anen coming into the thread after RVS and posting Csareo meta while not commentating on his personal feelings of Csareo's play is more weird than backing off. It's excusing Csareo's behavior using meta without commenting on what is going on here. Also, when I see town meta used as reasoning to maybe excuse someone's play, I feel like I should be reading it as townie and not to read as null."

Maybe I failed to express myself before. Csareo's gameplay in that game was &#@%!NoobScum and he was town. I simply don't think that he could perform (or now: could have performed) a better gameplay as scum. That'swhy he was null. Do you understand it now?

Cho, – thanks for that OMGUS vote, that really helped a lot. ^_^ (Again, why are you townreading TSO?) Plus, Toby pointed it out that Davesaz isn't voting for you.

Garmr, – that vote, uhhh. If you have told that you had voted for Boonskiies because of lurking and producing nothing I would have believed it. But, what kind of reasoning was that?



_____

TSO. What I don't like is here:
– it's just a feeling but these seemed to be fake.
"I don't lurk as scum. Aneninen, Cho, Egg, Thor and Pere have all seen my scumgame when it's working decently. You can ask them."

"I really don't agree with anything Aneninen is saying right now."
– soooo, if I posted I knew how you played as scum would you disagree with me? ^_^
– whattafukk was that bullshyt? A quote-wall which contains nothing from or about me and asking Thor about me? How does that make sense? ( – what kind of explanation was that?
"That quote string is me going through the thread convinced I was right - ignore it."
– What did you examine?)


_____

PeregrineV-mix.
"Anything I should look for?"

– a naked vote right after Izariael's vote (in that post Izariael wrote 1 line about Scripten) is FoS.
– that's pigeon poop. Even Izariael didn't understand the sheeping.
And from this point, those slow, over-detailed null-catchups – including the random votes and the joke-claims. , , .

He must be scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: PeregrineV

_____
some reads.

Tiershift is town. I like his posts. I'm almost ready to sheep him if needed. (Isn't it ironic, Cho? ^_^)
Thor is town. His posts are good, they are about scumhunting. (Also, I've seen town-Thor and scum-Thor – though only 1–1 games – and This is Town-thor. He's another player I'd sheep if needed ^_^)
Toby is town, I think.
Cho – unsure. I didn't find her scummy before but that vote was uhh.
TSO is scummy. See the part above.
Garmr is FoS-Scum.
Goodmorning is still town, no change here.
GrayFox may be town but we need more posts.

I see reluctancy to give stronger stances than this. The pere read is based on bullshit. I find the reactions to 360 and 412 scummy. Feels like he doesn't want to get associated with anyone or speak up to anyone.
In post 422, T S O wrote:You got your day of grace, Aneninen, it's gone.

Unvote
Vote: Aneninen

I can appreciate this vote.
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Post Post #728 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:03 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 726, T S O wrote:Are you feeling something I'm not, Thor?

Well, I'm not irritated by it in any way at all so - yes, I must be feeling something you're not.
I'm on open record that Neighbors are one of the most generically useless roles in existence - I could honestly not care less about whether we full reveal them or not.
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Post Post #729 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:05 am

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 709, Thor665 wrote:Why did you wait to claim to be in a neighborhood till this moment?

Why should I have previously claimed I was in a hood? I'm back now and saw some hood talk so yeah.

In post 709, Thor665 wrote:I have said both of these things before and was even debating it with Goodmorning - why didn't you hop in on that?

haven't really been around.

In post 725, T S O wrote:A little irritated

Why would your hood being outted irritate you?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #730 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:06 am

Post by T S O »

In post 728, Thor665 wrote:
In post 726, T S O wrote:Are you feeling something I'm not, Thor?

Well, I'm not irritated by it in any way at all so - yes, I must be feeling something you're not.
I'm on open record that Neighbors are one of the most generically useless roles in existence - I could honestly not care less about whether we full reveal them or not.


Meh.
I just got the feeling he expected people to praise the revealing of it or something.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
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Post Post #731 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:06 am

Post by T S O »

My hood being outed didn't annoy me. The way Scripten did it by saying it was "pro-town!" did.
"i have the sickest grossest feeling that even if it's my lynch today, my townflip still won't lead to a tso lynch, and then he'll find some bullshit way to reason either shooting or lynching gm tomorrow because if there's anyone who can strongarm a mislynch despite his reads or cases being proved wrong time and again it's tso"
-Marquis
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Post Post #732 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:09 am

Post by Nero Cain »

Well he is the most likely to be scum in our hood, ja.

Also Cho's hood is larger then ours so hrmmm...
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #733 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:11 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 729, Nero Cain wrote:Why should I have previously claimed I was in a hood? I'm back now and saw some hood talk so yeah.

Hood talk and claiming had happened sooner and during a period you were around and posting - you must have made a value call of not revealing it at that stage and then made a new one to reveal at this one. Why?

In post 730, T S O wrote:Meh.
I just got the feeling he expected people to praise the revealing of it or something.

That has less to do with the revealing and more to do with his motivation for the revealing. I would note that I was amongst the first to reveal neighbor info and have also not remotely indicated that I consider that a pro-town move. I have also asked people who consider full neighbor reveal as anti-town to explain why (with rather lackluster effort from Goodmorning to do so) and have not indicated that as anti-town or pro-town on their part either.

If your issue is Scripten expecting town vibes - then talk to him about that. The neighborhood thing is not the issue, the mentality and motivation are.
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Post Post #734 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:14 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 425, Garmr wrote:
In post 424, Aneninen wrote:@Gammrnmhrm
"Well if the only thing that strikes me are scum points thenwhy should I think his town?"
– You don't have to. But, frankly is he your strongest scumread now?
"You just made my point even stronger. Dodging subjects is town how?"
– No, I don't like that either. I just don't understand why you mentioned the Csareo-subject. You could have talked about anything else too.

1.Yes he is
2.Because I was asked about my thoughts at the time or at least I took it that way and that was the most relevant subject at the time. The cho subject was still ongoing (still kinda is) and not at it's peak.

This is lame, super lame. The question is useless and the answer is made in a too serious manner. Marking as possible buddy tell for later.
In post 459, Thor665 wrote:
In post 458, Izariael wrote:You can hope all you like, but I was srs. Nothing wrong with committing to a null.

Except trying to take credit for it while bashing someone offering mild alignment leans as weak - then there IS a problem with committing to it.

I COMMIT TO THIS NULL READ...by the way, this other guy isn't getting behind his town adn scum reads other than to say he "feels" this way about them. That's the scummiest thing in this thread!

I would be okay lynching Izariael now.

Are you serious? Why is iza's behaviour scummy? (As in, why are scum nore likely to do it than town, don't give a dumb answer)
In post 464, Boonskiies wrote:Anyhoosies, I don't like that Cho keeps making the mafia claim joke, (he did it in neighborhood along with doing it on his first post). It looks like a thing mafia might do to seem like a joke, and make people go, "Oh lookie here, they are making a joke, HAHAHAHA, THAT'S FUNNY! He can't really be scum!" And that's scummy. Also, he is making up reasons for why would I as scum scenarios, like outing the neighborhood. Seems planned. YAWWWWW.


Vote: Cho

I like this post but then again I am assuming boonskiies to be some sort of abomination of a player..
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Post Post #735 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:24 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 734, TierShift wrote:Are you serious? Why is iza's behaviour scummy? (As in, why are scum nore likely to do it than town, don't give a dumb answer)

The only reason that unexplained reads are scummy is because they are easily changeable.
That is the core definition of a null read as well.
I will agree that Izzy is making big noise about how well explained his null read was - but it doesn't change what a null read is nor does it change the only issue with unexplained reads.
Therefore, he's doing something, calling it townish, and complaining that someone is doing something different and calling it scummy - while blind to the fact that it is the same type of pro-scum play.
Making him either town who is dangerous to have in the game due to inability to read below the surface or scum.
Both making him a viable lynch option to me.

What's your issue with my stance?
Don't give a dumb answer.
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Post Post #736 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:31 am

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 733, Thor665 wrote:Why?

*meh* musta not noticed or cared.

Who are you in a hood with?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #737 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:32 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 486, Egg wrote:
Tier to TSO wrote:Why did you feel the need to defend the tell dave had on you?


Why shouldn't he? Also, it seems weird that you would shoot down the anger town tell as easy to fake only to call it null when questioned further on it. And when I ISO'd you for TSO mentions, I found a lot of mentions of him, but couldn't tell what your actual read on him was until I saw your vote on him. Everything from you about TSO seems off to me.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. If a towntell is easy to fake, it is null, since both scum and town do it. About the rest of the TSO mentions, I can't help you. Currently I like his anen push and thus think he might be town.

Also, can you explain this:
Tier wrote:Tobyloby makes me feel extremely comfortable and I have the feeling I know her. Her pushes are coherent and thoroughly understandable. I'm wanting her to be town.

It seems like a weird thing to say.

It's exactly what it says. She makes me comfortable and I hope that she is town, because she seems like a great asset to whichever alignment she's playing. I have her at decently town atm.

I don't understand why you focus on the things you focus.
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Post Post #738 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:34 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 735, Thor665 wrote:
In post 734, TierShift wrote:Are you serious? Why is iza's behaviour scummy? (As in, why are scum nore likely to do it than town, don't give a dumb answer)

The only reason that unexplained reads are scummy is because they are easily changeable.
That is the core definition of a null read as well.
I will agree that Izzy is making big noise about how well explained his null read was - but it doesn't change what a null read is nor does it change the only issue with unexplained reads.
Therefore, he's doing something, calling it townish, and complaining that someone is doing something different and calling it scummy - while blind to the fact that it is the same type of pro-scum play.
Making him either town who is dangerous to have in the game due to inability to read below the surface or scum.
Both making him a viable lynch option to me.

What's your issue with my stance?
Don't give a dumb answer.

Izzy looks like he believes in that strongly felt nullreads are more of a commitment than soft townreads, he really does. I was wondering why you didn't see that and instead focused on the sense he wasn't making and calling him scummy over it.
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Post Post #739 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:42 am

Post by davesaz »

Scum will have knowledge of all neighborhoods they have a member in. Town does not have general neighborhood knowledge, unless we reveal the neighborhoods before any of us are eliminated. The only knowledge that scum* gain from reveals is any neighborhoods they don't have members in. It doesn't seem to help scum.

Things which reduce the gap between what scum know and what town know is good for town.

(*) Scum and other factions <if any>
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Post Post #740 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:43 am

Post by TierShift »

Are those two neighbourhoods fully claimed already?
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Post Post #741 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:45 am

Post by Nero Cain »

yes
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #742 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:48 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 736, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 733, Thor665 wrote:Why?

*meh* musta not noticed or cared.

Who are you in a hood with?

This does not fill me with hope for your reading comprehension.

I am holding off on revealing until Goodmorning manages to get back to me with explanations on the fear of revealing and why it is pro-scum in some way.

In post 738, TierShift wrote:Izzy looks like he believes in that strongly felt nullreads are more of a commitment than soft townreads, he really does. I was wondering why you didn't see that and instead focused on the sense he wasn't making and calling him scummy over it.

Okay, well, first off, that you saw and answered my comment makes me wonder why you didn't address Goodmorning's whine to you, clarify?

As to my answer to this - if he believes it then he meets the qualifier for terrible town, and if he doesn't he meets the qualifier for scum. I agree that both of those states can exist and disagree that either one makes him not a good lynch option. I am proud that you can perfectly read his attitudes, I do not have this skill and am left to scumhunt him. You shouldn't hold that against other people. Your raised issue appears to be that "Thor is scumhunting" now - because your issue is that I didn't immediately read him as town...is that right?
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Post Post #743 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:06 am

Post by TierShift »

You seem to be addressing me as though I've been shitting on you, which I haven't. What's up with the attitude?

What gm whine?
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Post Post #744 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:09 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 743, TierShift wrote:You seem to be addressing me as though I've been Smurfing on you, which I haven't. What's up with the attitude?

It's a valid point I am raising - I want you to justify your issue. I am not saying you're doing anything bad (or good, for that matter), I am saying I want to understand your thoughts for why you are saying what you're saying.
Hint: I am scumhunting you.

In post 743, TierShift wrote:What gm whine?

Iso feature...
Though it just happened like a page ago and was addressed to you.
Basically a request to stop buddying me and re-read me - you're clearly reading the current stuff so why didn't you address it?
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Post Post #745 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:10 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 742, Thor665 wrote:because your issue is that I didn't immediately read him as town...is that right?

@Tiershift
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Post Post #746 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:14 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 744, Thor665 wrote:Hint: I am scumhunting you.

That is not an excuse for your tone.

I did address gm's post, more after dinner.
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Post Post #747 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:29 am

Post by Scripten »

In post 723, Izariael wrote:
But the time for being up-front and pro-active about neighborhood composition is long past. Throwing it out there now is a formality more than anything, since everyone is aware that multiple neighborhoods are in play. It might be pro-town, but I would expect scum to follow suit as well because it would be blatantly scummy not to.


Yeah. It's a null tell that is, IMO, pro-town. Knowing who can talk to one another overnight is useful information. I'm not actually sure what part of this you are questioning?

In post 730, T S O wrote:
Meh.
I just got the feeling he expected people to praise the revealing of it or something.


Nope. Honestly, I don't really know very well how neighborhoods will factor into the game, but it seems pretty likely that having information about the neighborhoods will help nail scum.
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Post Post #748 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:38 am

Post by Garmr »

In post 734, TierShift wrote:
In post 425, Garmr wrote:
In post 424, Aneninen wrote:@Gammrnmhrm
"Well if the only thing that strikes me are scum points thenwhy should I think his town?"
– You don't have to. But, frankly is he your strongest scumread now?
"You just made my point even stronger. Dodging subjects is town how?"
– No, I don't like that either. I just don't understand why you mentioned the Csareo-subject. You could have talked about anything else too.

1.Yes he is
2.Because I was asked about my thoughts at the time or at least I took it that way and that was the most relevant subject at the time. The cho subject was still ongoing (still kinda is) and not at it's peak.

This is lame, super lame. The question is useless and the answer is made in a too serious manner. Marking as possible buddy tell for later.


-_- are you fucking kidding me tier shift walk out this door right now. I was already thinking annienen was null- scum when he tried to chainsaw me on boon and couldn't respond and your trying to pin that moment as when I thought annienen might be scum. I may be newish thanks to my ban but I'm not fucking so stupid to let someone like you try to misrep me here. PS asking who is your top scum read is not a stupid question either.
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Post Post #749 (ISO) » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:56 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 745, Thor665 wrote:
In post 742, Thor665 wrote:because your issue is that I didn't immediately read him as town...is that right?

@Tiershift

Pretty pretty please with sugar on top, my dearest friend can you address the question you're avoiding and forgive me for my harsh tone and stop using it as a reason to not answer me, oh sugar sweet'ums?
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