Mafia 66: Freelancer - Game over!

[Battle Mage]

Vote: MoS

[Battle Mage]

Behavior

[13] Leave any grudges at the door. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

gtfo guys.

[Battle Mage]

Sounds like you're the one with the grudge. I'm just supporting the voting of one who is voting me. That is not an OOG metagame, nor a personal attack.

nope, no grudge, but it does get tiresome having to babysit you in every game we share.
fyi, my vote was purely for pressure purposes. Looks like you are feeling the strain already. :p

[Battle Mage]

BM, I've got a deal for you. How about we set aside our (non-existent) personal difference, and join forces to bandwagon ChannelDelibird, who is an experienced scumbag that will probably cause strife and terror to spread throughout our beloved village of Redtown, and our favorite pancake house.

hmm, seems reasonable. however, understand that this deal spreads across ALL games.

Unvote, Vote: CDB

[Battle Mage]

unvote, vote: ChannelDelibird

How many other games are we in with ChannelDelibird?

hmm, not sure, but thats not what i meant, as you well know.

[Battle Mage]

so you 3 are scumbuddies then?
this isnt about sides, this is an elaborate plan to shut MoS up.

[Battle Mage]

no, there is little point me buddying up to an SK, seeing as he'll probably kill me at night.

Unvote, Vote: Ryan

i dont like being bandwagonned on Day 1 of humongous games. If you dont want me replacing back in on multiple occassions, dont kill me. lol

Battlemage, trying to find scum buddies in a game where the SKs don't know each other?

[Battle Mage]

[quote="YogurtBandit"][quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]I truelly think trying to find SK's in general is almost impossible. I think a good random day 1 bandwagon would be good...[/quote]

Not likeing that post. You're telling us to give up hope on finding on finding Sk's just because it is almost impossible in general? TThen you say a good random D1 bandwagon would be good.

Fos: Kaleidoscope

[/quote]

hmm, i disagree YB. K-Scope has a point, that SK's arent subject to many scumtells used to detect Mafia. Of course, they will gradually become easier to spot as the game progresses, as they will be amongst the most opportunistic, defensive players imho.

[Battle Mage]

no, there is little point me buddying up to an SK, seeing as he'll probably kill me at night.

Unvote, Vote: Ryan

i dont like being bandwagonned on Day 1 of humongous games. If you dont want me replacing back in on multiple occassions, dont kill me. lol

What part of "random" did you miss? I still have a random vote on you BM, why the panic?[/quote]

because a random vote generally isnt joining an already large wagon. it looked like sugar-coated opportunism :p

[Battle Mage]

bold?

to be bold is to be scum. only town fear NK's.

[Battle Mage]

i saw the joining of a wagon with a vote, posing as random, as rather scummy.

Being only through 4 pages is going to make the SK hard to find and since nobody has come out and said, "Lynch me I'm the SK" the best way is to get the lurkers to come out and speak a little with some pressure votes. I'd like to hear from BattleMage on why he freaked out on me putting a vote on him. It was #3 and yet he acted like it was #9, any reasoning there?

[Battle Mage]

err wtf? how the hell does lynching lurkers gain us info. Case in point, the bandwagon just starting on Blahgo. I agree that lynching lurkers is probably good for today at least, but merely because they arent contributing, and arent a big loss.
But as you can see here, if the town agrees to lynch lurkers, we dont gain ANY info on anybody. There is no Mafia here, so reading bandwagons can only tell us so much. The fact is, if a lurker comes up town, what do we learn? Nothing.
If a lurker comes up scum, what do we learn? Nothing really, as we only have SK's.
The best way to gain INFORMATION would be to play as normal, and lynch whoever you think is behaving scummy. That way, you dont just get a meaningless bandwagon, but actually some discussion.
in fact, whilst i have no qualm about killing a lurker today, i really dislike that comment by Qman, so

Unvote, Vote: Qman

[Battle Mage]

Why do you dislike his comment, BM? Just saying that you don't like it doesn't actually give us any information, which you seem so keen on us being able to gather.

err, if you'd read my whole post, and not just the last sentence, you would see me explain why i didnt like that comment.
as good old MoS would say:

GG Reading Retension.

[Battle Mage]

rofl. see my response to MoS. Im not repeating myself over and over for people who cba to read for themselves....

[Battle Mage]

what are you talking about?
my whole post was for the SOLE PURPOSE of explaining that!
you

obviously

didnt read it, so i reccommend you do now. If you still cant manage, ill explain it to you in full, but if possible ill save you the embarrassment.

Why do you dislike his comment, BM? Just saying that you don't like it doesn't actually give us any information, which you seem so keen on us being able to gather.

err, if you'd read my whole post, and not just the last sentence, you would see me explain why i didnt like that comment.
as good old MoS would say:

GG Reading Retension.

Oh no, I definitely read all that, or I wouldn't have seen your vote in the first place. That doesn't explain why you didn't like Qman's comment

in particular

there are at least 3 or 4 people lurking-lynching Blahgo right now, if not more, so you disagreeing with the lurking lynch is not an explanation to pick Qman out of all the candidates to vote. Please explain why he is the vote and not myself, SpinWizard, or Kscope?

[Battle Mage]

ah i see you have at last read it. Now you just need to UNDERSTAND it.
To put it in simple terms for you, the WHOLE POST was directed at QMan. Id have thought that much would have been obvious from the vote, but i guess not. or maybe you were trying to bury the meaning of my post under a heap of confusion. i just dont know with you.

@QMan- the comment bothers me because it looks like you were trying to validate a vote with game theory, however this game theory was incorrect. it put you as a preferable vote to a lurker at this point.

Let me break it down for you:

err wtf?

Not directed at Qman in particular.

how the hell does lynching lurkers gain us info.

Question about game theory, not directed at anyone specific.

Case in point, the bandwagon just starting on Blahgo.

Using an in-game example to go along with the game theory discussion. Also not directed at anyone special.

I agree that lynching lurkers is probably good for today at least, but merely because they arent contributing, and arent a big loss.

More game theory, not directed at anyone.

But as you can see here, if the town agrees to lynch lurkers, we dont gain ANY info on anybody.

Game theory, not direction at a person.

There is no Mafia here, so reading bandwagons can only tell us so much.

Statement about the setup and game theory, not directed at anyone in particular.

The fact is, if a lurker comes up town, what do we learn? Nothing.

Game theory, no particular person addressed.

If a lurker comes up scum, what do we learn? Nothing really, as we only have SK's.

Game theory and setup discussion, not replying to a specific person.

The best way to gain INFORMATION would be to play as normal, and lynch whoever you think is behaving scummy.

More game theory based on the setup. Not directed at anyone.

That way, you dont just get a meaningless bandwagon, but actually some discussion.

Prediction of results of applying game theory, not directed at a person.

in fact, whilst i have no qualm about killing a lurker today, i really dislike that comment by Qman, so

Unvote, Vote: Qman

This is your first comment that regards Qman in particular. Every comment in your post up to that point applied to anyone that had voted a lurker or even expressed support of a lurker lynch. You have no told us why you chose Qman over anyone else.

And yes, I did read it...

obviously

[Battle Mage]

this is EXACTLY the sort of thing i expected. on your head be it...

[Battle Mage]

this is EXACTLY the sort of thing i expected. on your head be it...

What did you expect BM? On who's head be what? If you are going to post, at least post something readable.

once again, ill suggest you read my prior post, which was something along the lines of:

"by lynching lurkers, we gain NO information. The only way to identify scum in this game, is to look for the opportunists."

Now we have about 9 people who have just piled on that wagon. Even IF Blahgo is an SK, what have we learnt? jack-all. we then have 9 suspects, the vast majority of which are certain to be town. with townies acting like characteristic scum, its going to make it a hella lot harder to identify the actual scum.

and what do you mean by "if you are going to post"?
are you suggesting that ive been lurking?

[Battle Mage]

Ok BM, who's our first day best lynch?

hmm, see my vote. id figure thats a good place for a wagon atm. Still, id like to see alot more discussion before any lynch is made...

[Battle Mage]

Ryan, how much will we learn WITH a lynch?
answer: Jack-all.
We need discussion, and various bandwagons, and PATIENCE to lure out scum. im not opposed to a fairly random lynch today, but i think killing the first person we set eyes on, with NO arguments, is pointless.

[Battle Mage]

im not going to argue semantics with you MoS. suffice to say, i know that you are not completely stupid, and i wont be helping you play the "i dont know whats going on" card.

also,

Unvote, Vote: MoS

I dont believe you were setting a trap to catch scum. i think you were setting a trap to catch lazy townies.

ah i see you have at last read it. Now you just need to UNDERSTAND it.
To put it in simple terms for you, the WHOLE POST was directed at QMan. Id have thought that much would have been obvious from the vote, but i guess not. or maybe you were trying to bury the meaning of my post under a heap of confusion. i just dont know with you.

I understand that you were using that to apply to Qman. However, everything in that post except the vote could apply to anyone who was voting Blahgo at the time. What you needed to do was specify why you were directing it at Qman in particular. Had you been reading my posts, it would've been quite clear what I was asking of you.

@QMan- the comment bothers me because it looks like you were trying to validate a vote with game theory, however this game theory was incorrect. it put you as a preferable vote to a lurker at this point.

Why didn't you just say this when I first asked you, instead of causing a big huff over nothing?

[Battle Mage]

BM, answer this please. Do you believe that I, as scum, would be clever enough to start a lurker lynch, jump off the wagon when it's nearing a lynch instead of riding it to day end, claim that I only supported the wagon to pressure lurkers and set a trap for scum, then move on to vote another lurker instead of going after the possible scum I set a trap for? Also, what would I accomplish by doing this? What's in it for me as scum?

thats pretty obvious. you would look pro-active. i just didnt like the way you were jumping around.

[Battle Mage]

try MoS. nothing like a bit of pressure to spark some wisdom out of someone.

[Battle Mage]

i sorta feel trapped in this game. trapped between a bunch of lynch-happy people, voting Blahgo, and MoS who seems to have actual EVIDENCE that Blahgo is town. Then there is Ryan who seems to be agreeing with me. unfortunately i cant even trust him, seeing as this is exactly how he played in my last game with him-in which he was scum.

Unvote

[Battle Mage]

ooh slip up there Ryan

1. my comment about MoS's 'proof' was sarcastic. I was implying that he seemed pretty certain for someone who had virtually nothing.
2. Whats with your change of stance? it was only YESTERDAY that you were defending my fake-claim, saying that it was a good play. Now it seems like it suits you here to use it to attack me. The fact is, you were right the first time. My claim did the opposite of get me lynched-it helped me survive for another day. However thats irrelevant. the fact is that your reaction is contradictory to previous comments of yours.

Vote: Ryan

*Hows my Metagaming?

[Battle Mage]

i never said in THIS game. in fact, i said the opposite. However, the fact that you are contradicting a comment made by you elsewhere implies that you were either lying there (when there was no reason to) or lying here. I do sorta feel bad about lynching someone who is actually paying attention to what i say, but i cant help feeling that you could be scum here. Its Day 1, and i dont think im going to see a better lynch than someone who has lied, and acted as scummily as you. Call it a reach, but as ive yet to see anyone scummier, you'll forgive me if i dont pay that much heed.

[Battle Mage]

rofl. thats the weakest excuse for an OMGUS ever. i have proof of your lies. the proof of your general scumminess is within the thread. if anyone here participated in Sicilian Mafia, you will know what im talking about.
Also, your claim that metagaming is a scumtell is totally ridiculous.

going to get that quote now.
BM

[Battle Mage]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=850

Post 869 is a defence of my fake-claim tactic. it was made yesterday.

Today he is saying the exact opposite here.

Now i know that the actual topic is of no relevance to the game, but WHY the change of stance?

[Battle Mage]

I'm not going to turn this thread into a pissing match BM but that quote said I couldn't fault you for your effort, that doesn't mean I agree with you but I couldn't fault you for an attempt, not a defense of your attempt. And thanks for pointing it out the actual topic IS no revelance to the game, so why bring it up? Why are you acting so guilty? (again) Actually that game is a great read on how BM can constantly be anti town with his actions and remarks, kinda like this current attempt.

if you are saying you couldnt fault me, that IS a defence. if you think my suspicion of you, is me 'acting guilty', you have a lot to learn. The point i am making is that you have LIED somewhere along the line.
Now ill ask you 1 more time. WHY?

[Battle Mage]

lol how can i act 'guilty'. even if i was an SK, i wouldnt have anything to be 'guilty' about yet. it seems like it is only us 2 here in this game, but thats no reason not to discuss things. i wont argue semantics over what you said. I know how it was meant, and you deny it. Its up to the rest of the town to make their own mind up.
-ofc, you are still lying about the claim now. You aren't stupid Ryan. It was the claim that avoided me getting hammered on Day 1. the fact i got hammered on Day 2 is irrelevant.

now dont get me wrong, i dont think this incident makes a great case on you, but your responses havent done you any favours. The fact of the matter is, you have changed your mind within a short space of time, about an irrelevant issue, with the supposed intention of using it in order to reduce my credibility. Your overall behaviour has been an exact replica of your play as scum.
Im hoping we have some people here who were in that game, who can back me up on this.

[Battle Mage]

You know how it was meant? Because you can crawl in my head and know what I mean when I post something? Are you that stupid? BM, you are doing exactly what gets people lynched, finding one person you think is scum and trying to beat them into scum, not gonna work, I'm not a SK, sorry but I'm not. As far as reducing your credibilty, you are doing that to yourself on each of your posts, I don't have to do anything to help out that cause. BTW, stop calling me a liar, I posted my response and you cannot for some reason see that as fact. Calling somebody a liar doesn't make them one, it makes you look like an idiot especially when they posted their side of the story. Stop muddying up the game.

No, ryan. Understanding the meaning behind a comment doesnt require psychic powers. it just requires a bit of intelligence, which id like to think i possess. You are starting to sound panicky now.
If you are trying to accuse me of playing the 'consistency' card, you'd be wrong. I believe i was suspicious of MoS before i became more suspicious of you. It did strike me after i voted for MoS, that this game will be very difficult for an SK to forsee victory in. Playing like MoS has done- over ambitious, jumpy, pro-active, is not the sort of gambit that would help an SK win the game. to the contrary, id expect an SK to lurk in the shadows, and stay away from big wagons most of the time.
lol you can protest all you want, but the facts are here for all to see. You have lied at some point. Id have been far happier if you'd simply admitted that you'd changed your stance, maybe because previously you had been softening your comments in order to be nice to me. However, you continue to deny what is plain for all to see. You've posted 'your side of the story', and frankly, it doesnt add up.
im not even going to comment on the hypocrisy of your posts, as i wouldnt want to 'muddy up the game' as you put it.

Id rather focus my efforts on identifying scum.

BM

[Battle Mage]

wtf are you talking about? i didnt think i had claimed, nor had i asked anyone else to. you're raving now...

oh and i think the reason why nobody else has commented on the lie could be a combination of the follwoing things:

1. It is unlikely that any of the players had been reading in detail the entire game in which the comments were made, unless they had been playing. im not sure how many, if any, that applies to.

2. The fact is, nobody has BEEN HERE to comment yet. you can hardly expect a great deal of criticism when there is only 1 guy posting can you?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I haven't posted because I haven't seen a reason to I said my piece and by and large, well, nothing has changed. Though I have been entertained by BM and ryan fighting though.

Yeah it's been a real treat responding to such intelligence

its always nice to give a masterclass on how to play Mafia. usually im on the recieving end of such lessons, but today i feel like ive genuinely taught someone something valuable about the game.


Guys, i know you want to lynch a lurker, but wouldnt it be nicer to lynch someone who is not only scummy, but is also talking about the game outside of the thread?

[Battle Mage]

you arent allowed to refer to active games outside of the thread. obviously you made the comment there deliberately, so you could not only boost your low self-esteem, but also prevent me from defending myself without stooping to your level.

still, now im here, heres the facts:

Im NOT bullying you. I think you are scum in this game. thats it. case closed.
I dont dislike you, nor does the fact i find you scummy here mean anything personally about you. If you consider people thinking you are scummy, as 'bullying', you oughta to stop playing Mafia and get out more.
I mean, how do you expect me to stop suspecting you, if the only thing you do is go off and whinge to others about how 'mean BM is'.
The fact that you are so upset that i suspect you, is an indication of your scumminess in itself. If you were town, you would probably say: "BM is an aggressive scumbag", not "BM is a mean and nasty bully"

also, stop calling me 'fella'. Are you 10 years old, or 70? rofl

[Battle Mage]

then, you've just gotta hope that the rest of the town falls for your comments. I wont be moving my vote today, barring something highly dramatic from elsewhere.

[Battle Mage]

vote BM

. As good as any other. Call me crazy, but the fact that you accused someone of setting a trap for lazy townies makes no sense. NO ONE wants to trap townies in this game, not even the scum.

This is a dry as hell thread. Read one page read them all.

Also

FOS DYH, ryan

just for looking scummy. But ryan always looks scummy so I don't know what to make of it.

Also,

tornado, and Butte

are town.

wow, thats poor Lowell.

I guess you forgot, but there is scum in this game. we have 3 SK's, whos intention atm will be to kill TOWNIES. Thats the simple fact of the matter.
The only way the SK's have a shot here, is if thay maximise their NK's. therefore, today, SK's will not want to be hitting each other. I dont really know why you are saying the exact opposite...

please enlighten me as to what makes you think Tornado and Butte are town?

[Battle Mage]

i have seen your post, but im discussing something with the Mod atm, and i wont be posting content until i have recieved a full response.
In the meantime, keep bandwagonning me. :p

[Battle Mage]

im STILL waiting on a final response from YellowBounder. as soon as ive got it, ill be able to post again, not that i think anything i say will achieve anything.

[Battle Mage]

ok, im out. im not sure how much i can say about the reason, but suffice to say im far too angry to participate in this game anymore. It shouldnt be a problem, as it looks like i might be lynched anyway, so replacement shouldnt be needed. Im in enough games atm, and im not going to put myself for people who dont appreciate it.

Vote: BM

-coz im helpful.

[Battle Mage]

oh yeh, im not leaving the site or anything. just this individual game. :p

[Battle Mage]

lol as everyone lost, i think we can all put this down as a Draw. lol