Open 570: Making Friends and Enemies (Mafia Wins!)

[Zebulin]

/confirm

[Zebulin]

Is there a deadline for those who haven't confirmed?

[Zebulin]

My bad. just saw this one

I have decided that once 10 of you confirm we can start. Also I forgot to add my mod color into the OP so I am telling you what it is now.

It is

this colour

. #408000 Don't use it.

and thought "Where's the deadline?"

dontmodkillmeplz

[Zebulin]

everyone hates meeeeeeeeeeeeee ;_;

VOTE: goodmorning

[Zebulin]

I am an ordinary Vanilla Townie!

I think the masons should not claim first at all, and

my partner

should instead try to find out who is town and masonize them so that eventually town will get a strong townblock of town!

So, are you a vanilla townie or a mason?

You should know your own role...

[Zebulin]

Hmmmmmm Sonic might be Scum.

Why?

Because that post was so utterly overdone it's ridiculous. He's holding the cards in his left hand and telling us to watch the right, but in such an obvious way that it looks to me like a double- or triple-bluff.
I mean, there're a couple different options and not all of them have him as Scum, but it's pretty blatantly manipulative and I don't like it.

I am an ordinary Vanilla Townie!

I think the masons should not claim first at all, and

my partner

should instead try to find out who is town and masonize them so that eventually town will get a strong townblock of town!

So, are you a vanilla townie or a mason?

You should know your own role...

The bold is interesting to me. Prizes for guessing why.

I was pointing out that Metal Sonic claimed he was a vanilla townie while also saying he has a partner. This means he's lying about his role, which is very scummy. (Or it could be a typo, but if we assume every scummy action is a typo then we won't get anywhere)

The mason question was badly worded. What I mean to ask is "Metal Sonic, how could you claim you are a vanilla townie while also saying you have a partner in the

very same post?

" Scum has partners, you know.

[Zebulin]

You could be referencing 1 of your partners. Also, could you answer this:

@MS: Is there any particular reason you have gm as scum?

[Zebulin]

I was pointing out that Metal Sonic claimed he was a vanilla townie while also saying he has a partner. This means he's lying about his role, which is very scummy. (Or it could be a typo, but if we assume every scummy action is a typo then we won't get anywhere)

If you think he is scummy, then why aren't you voting him?
VOTE: MetalSonic

I forgot to.

The mason question was badly worded. What I mean to ask is "Metal Sonic, how could you claim you are a vanilla townie while also saying you have a partner in the very same post?" Scum has partners, you know.

Doesn't this have exactly the same meaning as the original version?

This question was worded in a way that didn't seem like rolefishing.

What answer did you expect to get, and how would that have affected your view of him?

I was trying to find a logical reason behind his first post. I still have no ideas why he said it, town or scum.

What do you think Metal Sonic's motive was making his claim post was?

I have no idea. To make us confused? IF that was the goal, he definitly succeeded.

Also, got a twinge about nopointinactingup's 33. It felt off.

[Zebulin]

You should vote in a separate post so that the mod doesn't miss it.

VOTE: MetalSonic for clarity.

I'm not sure whether all of his talk is part of a great plan or if it's just nonsense like Shinobi said.

@MS: Enlighten us. What are you trying to do?

[Zebulin]

Toffee pressures Metal Sonic

Metal Sonic tells Toffee to leave him alone


I don't like this at all. Town should be fine with scumhunting, even if it's on them (since they can say all their thoughts; as town, they have nothing to hide). Also, the uncle sonic thing bugs me.

Will post more when I have time

[Zebulin]

ISOing everyone, will post reads once finished

[Zebulin]

Alright, it's Zebulin's Reads!

Scale:

Very Town

Town

Null

Lurk

Scum

Very Scum

Shinobi

:

Seems towny. I really like post 75, and 19 posts is pretty active. He doesn't seem to care for Metal Sonic very much, but isn't calling anyone out particularly. He is trying to get the game moving, which is nice.

nyanyanya

:

Wow! 3 posts! All of them useless! So much logic can be gained from this! Cutting the sarcasm, lurking isn't good, but it's not enough information. Prod should help one way or another.

ExpressoDan

:

4 posts! Even better than nyanyanya! Again, no information really to be gained (although 106 seems townish). Prod should help.

nopointinactingup

:

5 posts! Wowzers! 2 of the posts have information, but I don't agree with his logic (too meta-based for me). It does seem like he's trying to scumhunt, though.

MetalSonic

:

Oh, this is an intresting one. Metal Sonic played post 28 ...

interestingly

so say the least. He did a weird VT/Mason gambit, then argued with me about grammar for 2 pages. He then vote hops and demands sheep. He then says a ton of stuff tat just confuses me (no conclusion), stops pressuring goodmorning, then starts pressuring goodmorning, then stops pressuring goodmorning. 65 posts is a good number, I admit, but that is some seriously weird play. Maybe his strategy is to confuse us all so we can't scumhunt effectively.

BlueBloodedToffee

:

Sheep me! Sheep me! Sheep me! BlueBloodedToffee applies a lot of pressure, but seems to want a following pretty badly. I do not like this. He is asking questions and has a nice 41 posts, so that's useful.

Huntress

:

9 posts isn't good, but almost all of them have content. A lot of questions, not much pressure. A little worrying, as this is what scum would do to avoid pressure. Might be a playstyle thing, more posts needed to check.

Zebulin

:

What do you think I'm going to say for this one?

goodmorning

:

Can't read, can't read, pressure pressure pressure. Also attacking Metal Sonic, who I'm not the biggest fan of. 25 posts is good enough, and I like the effort. There are valid points raised by others about who I am too lazy to name (I don't want to look it up), so not totally town.

Malakittens

:

A good amount of content, but not all of it actually useful. Also a good amount of prod dodges. 18 is okay, but if by my count only 6 are really game-based, it's not a good thing.

JoshB

,

Peabody

,

KatieB

:

Not in game long enough to get a real opinion.

[Zebulin]

@Shinobi: Maybe you could explain that sentence.
@Zeb: Why ISOs?

P-Edit: And why cop out on Josh and Peabody? They've posted more than the lurkers have.

I'm lazy.

...alright, fine.

JoshB

:

Well, he's scumreading me. I don't like his logic on me, which I am answering later in this post, but that doesn't mean he's scum. 21 posts is a good amount considering he replaced in.

Peabody

:

Doesn't like me either. I strongly disagree with post 259, considering that I

actually did explain me read

. Does have a lot of content per post, but the logic is totally off.

TOWN CASE for MS:
Option1. MS is a VT looking to get recruited into the mason thread.
Possibilities:
1. The masons believe him and recruit him, at the same time scum kills him.
2. The masons don't recruit him because he may be NK'd, so they choose someone else, and scum NK him.
3. The masons recruit MS and the scum kill someone else because they are trying to outwit the masons.

Option2. MS is a scum trying to out the Masons.
Possibilities:
1. The Masons attempt to recruit MS, their actions fail and MS is lynched as conf scum.
2. The Masons do not attempt to recruit MS, and it is impossible for him to get NK'd.

Reason's why Option 1 is more likely. If MS was pulling a scum gambit the best scenario is a 1 for 1 situation, where one mason outs MS as scum and the other mason continues to recruit town. If MS is pulling a town gambit, the scum have the option to either Kill MS or allow him to live with the possibility that he is recruited into the masons. While the Masons can either accept the gambit knowing that MS could be NK'd, or attempt to recruit another town member. Causing MS to become the least likely town member to be recruited and the scum would then attempt to out guess who the Masons will recruit and NK someone else.
-Are you thirsty? Because that is some magical WIFOM right there. And no one is more of a WIFOM wizard than I.
Conclusion MS is a vanilla town trying to get recruited into the Mason thread, not a scum trying to out the masons.

It's impossible to use WIFOM logic. It is more likely the MS is vanilla if he was playing logically, but he could be trying to outwit everyone by acting that way (and by his own admission he is incredibally manipulative), or it could be a double-bluff, or it could be a triple-bluff, or etc. etc. My case is built around the scummier parts of MS like vote-hopping.

No. Zebulon is a new + bad player but he is town.

He is mislynch bait, do not take it.

From the looks of the VC, so are you. But seriously. What do you think about this...

/snip
MetalSonic: Oh, this is an intresting one. Metal Sonic played post 28 ... interestingly so say the least. He did a weird VT/Mason gambit, then argued with me about grammar for 2 pages. He then vote hops and demands sheep. He then says a ton of stuff tat just confuses me (no conclusion), stops pressuring goodmorning, then starts pressuring goodmorning, then stops pressuring goodmorning. 65 posts is a good number, I admit, but that is some seriously weird play. Maybe his strategy is to confuse us all so we can't scumhunt effectively.
/snip
goodmorning: Can't read, can't read, pressure pressure pressure. Also attacking Metal Sonic, who I'm not the biggest fan of. 25 posts is good enough, and I like the effort.

There are valid points raised by others who I am too lazy to name

(I don't want to look it up), so not totally town.

He can't name the others, Because the name of the others is Sonic, who is his number one scum read? I mean it could be Alpha Sapphire bringing up the points, but her vote is still a holdover from RVS and she hasn't said much in her 3 posts. Mala mentioned wanting to get a better read on GM but other than that... I got nothing. Is anyone else bringing up any points? Maybe others are bringing up points on GM being town, but I don't really see that either. Maybe GM and MS are D1 bussing for no reason, that would make a whole lot of no sense.
What does make sense? Scum Zebulin. You can think it's mislynch fodder if you want, but this should be our plan of action this DP.

MetalSonic, I know I'm asking you, but NPAU, and Huntress feel free to chime in. You know what? Everybody chime in, I want to hear your voices.

The nae of the others is Alpha Sapphire, goodmorning, and BlueBloodedToffee. ESPECIALLY BlueBloodedToffee. There you go.

[Zebulin]

I mean according to your explanation, it seems you count her as scum due to lurking? Or is it low content per post ratio?

[line]Low content per post ratio.[/line] Oh, you said you awnsered your

@Shinobi: Maybe you could explain that sentence.
@Zeb: Why ISOs?

P-Edit: And why cop out on Josh and Peabody? They've posted more than the lurkers have.

JoshB

:

Well, he's scumreading me. I don't like his logic on me, which I am answering later in this post, but that doesn't mean he's scum. 21 posts is a good amount considering he replaced in.

Peabody

:

Doesn't like me either. I strongly disagree with post 259, considering that I

actually did explain me read

. Does have a lot of content per post, but the logic is totally off.

Look, Zeb. Maybe I'm not understanding WHY you are reading them why you're reading them. You coded MS as -red-. But your paragraph on him is just explaining what he did. What in that paragraph EQUALS scum alignment, and what is just summary? Can you please, for the sake of me understanding you, do this?

Additionally, you have me labeled as scum, but you give no clear indication as to why. Is it because I called you scummy? Or why?

Your logic is totally off. You claimed in post 259 I didn't come up with a conclusion, when in reality I point out a ton of scummy, not confusing things (votehopping, demanding sheep, on-off pressuring, and the VT/Mason gambit (these things are self-explanitory is scummyness imo)), and draw a conclusion from it; Metal Sonic is scum. The bad logic is scummy to me.

[Zebulin]

Zebulin, What do you think about the interactions between NPAU and GM?

I feel like their argument against each other is the other person's argument is bad, which a bad argument and circular logic. My gut says it's town vs town, but I'm not 100% sure. (Well, no one is except the scum or if they're the 2 masons.)

[Zebulin]

The nae of the others is Alpha Sapphire, goodmorning, and BlueBloodedToffee. ESPECIALLY BlueBloodedToffee. There you go.

Alpha Sapphire said GM had a funny name, I doubt GM made a case against herself, and BBT agreed with MS but said he didn't see anything that's particularly townie or particularly scummy from her so far. So where are these "valid points"?

My bad. I was outlining the people against Metal Sonic by accident. So skilled

@JoshB: What are your reads on the goodmorning/NPAU argument? (I meant to post this immidiately after post 319.)

@uctriton00: What is your opinion of the state of the game?

[Zebulin]

Maybe you can CwatIsee

Spoiler: Zebulin

goodmorning: Can't read, can't read, pressure pressure pressure. Also attacking Metal Sonic, who I'm not the biggest fan of. 25 posts is good enough, and I like the effort. There are valid points raised by others about who I am too lazy to name (I don't want to look it up), so not totally town.

Ok so the first part that I'm having trouble with, is that he has MS as hard scum. In this post he says that he isn't going to say who is making the valid points, the phrasing is "making valid points that GM is scum." But as I mentioned earlier, MS is one of the leading voices against GM. Now I'm having trouble figuring out whose side he's on here even more so after he clarified who he thinks is making valid points...

The nae of the others is Alpha Sapphire, goodmorning, and BlueBloodedToffee. ESPECIALLY BlueBloodedToffee. There you go.

.
Alpha Saphire- as also pointed out by Huntress RVS'd because of goodmorning's name
BBT- Said one thing that I know of about a possible scum GM that wasn't even his own argument. 183 It was MS's argument.
I don't think GM made any points about herself being scum.

NPAU and MetalSonic are the two people who have called GM scum the most. But they aren't mentioned by him at all. According to his opinion of NPAU v. GM, he says TvT. So, it would make more sense if he was flatly town reading GM whom he shares a scum read with, but he isn't.

There's some other things in the post that make me think Scum Zebulin. His high town read on Shinobi which contradicts posts 66
NPAU gets a lurk/null read with 2/5 posts containing content, whereas Mala gets a full on scum read saying that only half of her posts are content related (I disagree with his view of content related). With Mala's 18 posts as a replacement, I'd say she's was one of the games top contributors at that time. Not giving a read on me, seems a little silly considering that he seems to think very highly of post counts and given the fact that I had about 18 posts prior to his reads list.

I think that's every little thing that I find wrong with Zebulin, feel free to help me lynch him if you agree, or share a different PoV if you have one.

Alright, to answer your questions:

I had accidentally listed the contributors in the anti-Metal Sonic case instead of the contributors in the anti-goodmorning case. I've already pointed this out in 331. The anti-goodmorning case is made up mostly of Metal Sonic and nopointinactingup, as you pointed out. (I reread the entire thread to find the anti-gm posts, then realized you already knew about that... ) What's wrong with post 66? As for not ISOing you: I was being lazy. I really don't have anything more to say.


On an unrelated note, since my reads keep on changing (Josh is ovbiously scum! No, he's ovbviously town! SCUM TOWN SCUM TOWN SCUM TOWN SOUM TCWM) I was thinking of putting a reads list in my signature and changing it as te game progresses. Is that a good idea? Am I breaking any rules by doing that (signature length or space (since I'm playing 2 games))?

@JoshB: [line]How comfortable are you with insanity[/line] Why would you vote NPAU?

@Shinobi: Do you have a readslist?

[Zebulin]

Requesting Replacement

I could go on and on about why, but I just don't have time for 2 games and I'm totally outmatched in skill in this one. It helps town if I replace.
I'll keep on playing until a replacement is found, don't worry.

Reads:

Very Town: Shinobi, JoshB
Town: Scripten, Peabody, JoshB
Null/Lurk: Everyone Else, JoshB
Scum: Metal Sonic, Malakittens, JoshB
Very Scum: JoshB


One question before I leave; What the heck is with Uncle Sonic? Is it a strategy, scumhunting tool or just trolling?