Open 570: Making Friends and Enemies (Mafia Wins!)

[Huntress]

/confirm

[Huntress]

I was pointing out that Metal Sonic claimed he was a vanilla townie while also saying he has a partner. This means he's lying about his role, which is very scummy. (Or it could be a typo, but if we assume every scummy action is a typo then we won't get anywhere)

If you think he is scummy, then why aren't you voting him?

The mason question was badly worded. What I mean to ask is "Metal Sonic, how could you claim you are a vanilla townie while also saying you have a partner in the very same post?" Scum has partners, you know.

Doesn't this have exactly the same meaning as the original version? What answer did you expect to get, and how would that have affected your view of him? What do you think Metal Sonic's motive was making his claim post was?


Also, got a twinge about nopointinactingup's 33. It felt off.

[Huntress]

I think it was the way the "Why?" came after the vote rather than after the quote. Like he needed an excuse for joining an rvs wagon. It just didn't seem to flow.

[Huntress]

Ohaaaaaaai Huntress. Let's dance sooner than later, kay? (:

Hi Mala! The sooner the better. :)

Also i reaaaaally didn't like Zeb's role fishing in 30 , but because of the join date I might be meowing up the wrong tree, but I'll likely take a glance at his games after I post this. Although him explaining I'm getting a gut vibe because I can see him genuinely trying to scumhunt based off the wording. (I know stupid logic, eh??)

His one completed game shows it might be a playstyle thing. I'm in two minds about him but hopefully I'll have a clearer idea when he's responded to my questions. So far, the only conclusion I've come to is that he and MS are unlikely to be both scum.


In the meantime,

Vote: EspressoDan

[Huntress]

@ Zebulin:

Please don't put your replies inside a quote as it gets confusing to follow and it's a pain if someone wants to quote you.

Doesn't this have exactly the same meaning as the original version?

This question was worded in a way that didn't seem like rolefishing.

You are saying that it was just the wording you would have changed so it didn't look so bad? You were still asking him about his partner comment. Did you think he would have told you whether or not he actually had a partner?

What answer did you expect to get, and how would that have affected your view of him?

I was trying to find a logical reason behind his first post. I still have no ideas why he said it, town or scum.

I see you've now asked him directly, so that's good.

What do you think Metal Sonic's motive was making his claim post was?

I have no idea. To make us confused? IF that was the goal, he definitly succeeded.

You say that he's scummy, and have now voted him, but at the same time you are saying you are confused by him?

I'm still not sure about all this, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt for now if you can tell me why you think he is scummy, as opposed to just confusing.

[Huntress]

Why did you vote EspressoDan? Was that an RVS vote? My apologies, but you do not appear to be in the RVS mood.

Nope; it wasn't RVS. He was avoiding talking about the game. As are Rambler and AssMuffin who must have picked up their role PMs otherwise they would have been replaced along with James May.

[Huntress]

Also, Huntress and Shinobi...why aren't you sheeping me?

You haven't given me any reason to? Not one that I think is valid, anyway, and I'm quite enjoying his posts. What didn't you like about his vote-hopping?

[Huntress]

Why is ms less likely to be scum?

He isn't less likely, just not likely to be scum with Zebulin, so it's one or the other, or neither.

Because meta is easily manipulated and it's a poor scum-hunting tool.

Meta is a good tool if used wisely. Don't blame the tool for the way it's sometimes misused.

Hi. So what exactly is going on right now? I thought the votes at this point were mostly random.

Have you actually read the thread? You posted this at the end of page 4 and we were getting past the random part by the middle of page two.

No it was rather a serious vote.

Ok then. Am I understanding it right that you are voting GM for "pointing out his likelihood of being scum in a wishy washy manner"? Because that's all I'm getting from your post.

This is a flimsy argument on Day1, since it depends not only on MS being scum first (which is highly unlikely), but also that scum actually defends their partners at all (which is 50-50 at best).

Why is it highly unlikely that MS is scum?

I'd like to see the answer to this too.

Man you guys are rough. Honestly when I posted my second RVS vote, I thought you guys were still lolposting. The two pages consisted of Sonic being... Sonic and people actually taking his posting seriously.

On that note, Scumhunting is hilarious in the early stages of day one. We spent 2-3 pages discussing Sonic's wording and grammar in 28 when he was (and probably still is) trolling. Then we're getting reads off people's reactions to this trolling. All we've gleaned so far is who's dumb and who's dumber. Maybe I don't get the point of RVS and early D1 play. To me it all just seems like a bunch of unfounded votes/claims getting thrown back and forth with only emotion and a bit of gut as reasoning.

I think you've just confirmed my earlier impression that you're either just skimming or deliberately ignoring the discussion. There was a lot more going on than you've described here. If you don't understand why someone did or said something, just ask about it.

@ BBT:

I asked you what you didn't like about MS's vote-hopping. Still waiting for an answer.

[Huntress]

@ BBT:

I asked you what you didn't like about MS's vote-hopping. Still waiting for an answer.

You like vote-hopping?

Vote hopping is a null tell. What was there about MS's vote changes that you found scummy?

A vote is a good weapon; however, when it only sticks on someone for a page or so, it pretty much becomes useless. Your vote serves no purpose as you're expected to move it onto the next target within the next 25 posts.

Would you describe your own vote change, after only 15 posts, as useless? I doubt it, so why object to his purely on postcount?

Scumhunt with me please! I feel very alone meow!

Me-you-huntress-shinobi would make a good elite team town block!

No thanks; the last time someone proposed that in a game I was in he included all three scum in it.
But seriously, I've seen how unfun town blocks can be for those left on the outside in the past so I'm not interested.


Hi Josh!

On the other hand, I'm really not feeling Town Huntress.

Why would that be?

[Huntress]

Lot's of probing questions, not a lot of personal POV.

Questions are one of my main scumhunting tools. They help me work out where people are coming from.

@ BBT:

I'm trying to work out whether you have a genuine reason to call MS's play scummy, or whether you just used his playstyle as an excuse to vote him. You haven't said that you have any problem with his individual votes apart from the one on you, so it looks like you just threw out a buzzword - vote hopping - and called him scummy for it.

Are you seriously comparing me changing from my RVS vote to a serious vote, to MS' vote-hopping. Please, tell me you're not doing that.

That was exactly my point. You changed your vote when something more relevant came along, but you called MS scummy for doing the same thing. That is inconsistent.

Yuck. Asking why someone isn't town-reading you. Bad post.

I wanted to know if he had genuine reason for voting me or was just trying to avoid the main wagons.

What does make sense? Scum Zebulin. You can think it's mislynch fodder if you want, but this should be our plan of action this DP.

MetalSonic, I know I'm asking you, but NPAU, and Huntress feel free to chime in. You know what? Everybody chime in, I want to hear your voices.

I said I would give Zeb the benefit of the doubt earlier if he could tell me why he thought MS was scummy, as opposed to just confusing, because my gut was saying Zeb was town. But he still doesn't seem to be able to do that, and he seems to realise it because in 276 he now says that his case is built around the scummier parts of MS like vote-hopping (which he didn't mention before and which is not an alignment tell anyway). If that was the case, why not include it in 239? It just looks like he is trying to find excuses to support his vote.

[Huntress]

The nae of the others is Alpha Sapphire, goodmorning, and BlueBloodedToffee. ESPECIALLY BlueBloodedToffee. There you go.

Alpha Sapphire said GM had a funny name, I doubt GM made a case against herself, and BBT agreed with MS but said he didn't see anything that's particularly townie or particularly scummy from her so far. So where are these "valid points"?

I have specifically stated why I was scum-reading MS, I even quoted the post for you to read. I don't know how you're still talking about this.

You didn't quote it to me, but if you mean the post you linked for npau then that's the very post I was following up in the first place, so it's kinda circular to point me back to it.

No, it isn't inconsistent. I think you're accusing me of being a hypocrite, which is wrong either way. I changed my vote once and it was to place my first serious vote. MS changed his twice, both onto people who were suspicious of him or questioning him within the first 3-and-a-bit pages. There is a big difference. In fact, I don't even think MS' first vote on GM was RVS so he may have had 3 votes in just over 3 pages.

Finally an answer - but I think I disagree with you on the nature of the votes, they look quite understandable for early day votes to me, and in each case the votee posted before the vote was moved off them. Your "big difference" seems to be purely in the number of votes which I don't see as significant.

Were there main wagons? I didn't notice. There are still some unfounded RVS posts on the board.

GM, BBT and MS. Yes, I know that the actual votes were a bit on and off but there was enough talk about them to give that impression. With GM in particular MS and BBT were claiming there were more votes on her than there ever were. The four rvs votes still on the board are all on different people.

Well then climb aboard. I don't think the EspressoDan thing is going anywhere. Also I think it's funny that he said "'We' spent 2-3 pages discussing Sonic's wording and grammar.." when that dude was nowhere to be found.

Vote: Zebulan

[Huntress]

And I think there were more ppl voting goodmorning

True dat.

How is MS's (mistaken) comment to the mod relevant here?

My bad. I was outlining the people against Metal Sonic by accident. So skilled

So which names did you mean to give us then?

Huntress

can you explain your Zeb vote for me?!

It's mainly explained in 282. Add to that his reads list, together with the fact that he can't back up some of his comments, means that Zeb may well be scum. I'm also looking at BBT and NPAU but I don't think they are scum together.

@ BBT:

Re: 350. So what you're saying is that if A votes B and then B later votes A then it's a scum tell? Because it really isn't, unless B is saying A is scum purely because he voted B.

There's some other things in the post that make me think Scum Zebulin. His high town read on Shinobi which contradicts posts 66

How does his read on Shinobi contradict post 66? Or did you mean another post?

[Huntress]

On an unrelated note, since my reads keep on changing (Josh is ovbiously scum! No, he's ovbviously town! SCUM TOWN SCUM TOWN SCUM TOWN SOUM TCWM) I was thinking of putting a reads list in my signature and changing it as te game progresses. Is that a good idea? Am I breaking any rules by doing that (signature length or space (since I'm playing 2 games))?

Yes, this would be against the rules as it would be effectively editing your posts. It would also break the talking about ongoing games rule.

[Huntress]

This is just a prod dodge. I probably won't be able to post until tomorrow afternoon (or rather, this afternoon as it's past midnight now).

[Huntress]

Do you see any other reasons for MS' votes? If so, please show me.

Post 44 implies that his first vote on GM was just RVS. 42 seemed to be sparring with Zeb. MS doesn't accuse him of being scum. And in 56 and 57 he was making a point to you. None of those votes seem to me to have the connotation you are giving them.

Why can't this just be like a newer player who just can't express themselves properly?

Compare Zeb's posts in this game with his ISO in Newbie 1531. He seemed a lot more confident there despite being unfamiliar with the site.

My vote on Huntress was a gut thing. I felt like she was mainly cruising through the game being neutral. She had no vote so I voted her to see how she would respond. She didn't really respond but I was back at arguing with BBT before I could follow up on it

I

was

voting at the time and I was also actively trying to sort people out, so why you are claiming that I wasn't doing either? I didn't respond to your empty vote because I was waiting to see where you would go with it. Which was nowhere as it happened. If you want me to respond to something, the easiest way is to ask me.

@ davesaz:

Hi! Why did you comment on 466 before NPAU had had a chance to answer it?

Is there a reason you don't think me and NPAU can be scum together?

Due to your interactions, but I'm not ruling it out entirely. The cross-voting and then both moving your votes to Mala is interesting but wifomy.

[Huntress]

@ BBT:

I think you must have a different definition of that term than I do. So I'm just going to reiterate that, in my opinion, that's not what he was doing there, and leave it at that.

[Huntress]

Huntress made a passing comment about myself and NPAU not being scum together. That doesn't equal a scum read.

It

was

actually a scum read. I was just wanting to reread your ISO before deciding where to move my vote, which I would have done in 499, (to NPAU), except that davesaz came in and did something that made me think he might be NPAU's partner so I left it on him until he replied to me.

Now I need to go back and digest the last six pages, and I think there are a couple of things I need to reply to there.

[Huntress]

@ davesaz:

Hi! Why did you comment on 466 before NPAU had had a chance to answer it?

Because I saw something questionable and wanted to investigate it in the flow vs. trying to remember to investigate it later.

When I saw your post it looked to me like you were helping NPAU out by suggesting an answer to the question Shinobi asked him. If I had been in Shinobi's position there I would have been peeved and a bit suspicious that you intervened as it might have affected the read I would have been trying to get on NPAU. The question you raised could have been asked without referring to the post at all. But Shinobi doesn't appear bothered about it which makes me wonder why.

why the lack of confidence be from playing outside of the newbie queue for the first time? Why does it automatically default him to being scum?

It doesn't. My point there was that I thought he

could

express himself better, so the fact that he couldn't back up some of his comments wasn't due to his being new.

@ NPAU:

You seem to have missed the question I asked you in post 499.

Vote: NPAU

oh, I might be okay with a goodmorning lynch. She's posting elsewhere is somewhat of a scum tell for her~

I checked that out and apart from a couple of one-liners her only posts during that time were mod posts, which would of course have priority if she had limited access, so I don't see that as a scum tell in this case.

[Huntress]

Some of her posts have given me scum-gut feels (the whole Zeb thing, which I have already commented on), but then there is other posts by her that make her feel town. Such as the questioning which I have also pointed out because that does fit into her town meta. What I really don't like currently is how she hasn't made a comment on the BBT v I argument, which I expected town-Huntress to have taken a side. I have faced a few games where she has barely taken a stance on me besides knowing me for a while and probably having the vast meta to pretty much read-me-like-a-book. Although, I have also seen town her not make a read on me besides gut. My issue frankly is that she hasn't made one comment on my posting which makes me question whether or not she can't read me this game or she's trying to stay silent on it and sweep it under the rug. Either way it's been bothering me for a while so I was hoping that her current read through would give me a glimpse of her stance on BBT v I discussion.

I saw your exchanges with BBT as more about a clash of playstyles than anything else, but your reactions looked town to me so I didn't feel the need to comment, especially as I was already arguing with him about something else (Did you comment on that? If you did I think I missed it.). What about it did you expect me to take a side on? If it was the use of meta I gave BBT my opinion earlier that meta is a good tool. Although in your case a gut read seems to work better for me and it's currently saying town.

Do you think BBT is scum? You voted him briefly but I got the feeling that was more out of frustration with him than out of suspicion. I've got a null read on him at the moment.

By the way, that "vast meta" you speak of consists almost entirely of games in which you were town. There was one scum game early last year where you were lynched fairly early before I managed to get a proper read on you, but that's about it.

[Huntress]

I didn't see this tbh.
First, your vote was on Expresso, which is a RVS? If not, you did not provide reasoning for it so I failed to see it otherwise
Second, I saw that you were asking a lot of questions without coming to some sort of conclusion or read. I dropped the vote on you because I thought there was better things to do with my vote.

First, I did explain it, in post 81 and a bit more in 111. Are you actually reading my posts? Or are you just taking potshots at me?
Second, which of my questions are you referring to here? If you wanted to know what I thought about something, why didn't you just ask me?

[Huntress]

Thanks meta'ing because I actually find this interesting.

Can you do me a favor and read this post. It's from a recent finished newbie of his (he was town there).

I just find it interesting that Corrino actually called him out on it and he never did answer it or if he did it wasn't quoted. I find it both odd and amusing all at the same time.

<<

Either way it's prob not relevant and I'm also misreading it

He seems to be doing , as town, there what he was calling MS scummy for here. He does say that he had put himself in the open, doing things that he wouldn't normally do to push the game forward, so it's odd that he was attacking MS here for what looks to me like similar behaviour. I don't think it's actually a scumtell for him though.

I'd like to know in particular what Huntress thinks of Mala at present.

It hasn't changed since my last but one post.

@ Josh:

Am I right in thinking that your current scum reads are NPAU, Heph, MS, Mala and possibly Zeb/Dave?


Now I'm going to see if I can work out what's what between Shinobi and uctriton.

[Huntress]

As far as I can see the clash between Shinobi and uctriton started with Shinobi misunderstanding why uctriton voted NPAU and then went on with the two of them talking at cross-purposes a bit. Which begs the question of whether the misunderstanding was genuine. I think it probably was.

Their only previous connection seems to be uctriton's post 472, where he said Shinobi's reactions to Toffee were scummy, especially his post 70. Shinobi never responded to that and uctriton never followed it up, neither did he mention Shinobi when giving his reads in 621.

Nothing more until Shinobi attacks uct in 733 to 751 to which uct responds calmly at first but later flips out over it.

@ Uctriton:

What happened to your early scum read on Shinobi?
Why does a single vote on you bother you so much?

3) I missed it; answering it now: the scum motivation is that you said you had a case on me and started voting, instead of immediately sharing it.

That's fact not motivation. It's also something that town do too so what makes it scummy in this particular case?

@ Josh: Am I right in thinking that your current scum reads are NPAU, Heph, MS, Mala and possibly Zeb/Dave?

No. Maybe. I'm think I'm ok with you thinking this.

Mala is getting sorted. Who are your scum reads?

Is that no to NPAU, maybe to Heph, and dodging the question to MS and dave?

My current scum reads are Npau and davesaz (his recent posting hasn't changed that), and I'm wondering about uctriton at the moment. No conclusion there yet as I'm shirking the idea that I need to do a meta-read to check that playstyle isn't affecting my read of him.

[Huntress]

1> Ok you did, still not a reason to retain that vote for 4 posts. Maybe I wasn't reading your post carefully but you started this conversation so no .. I was not taking potshots at you either.
2> Because. That's not my style. I'm not going to point out all the questions you made during and before post 143 because that's just dumb.
The point is I thought you were suspicious because you didn't draw any pressure/conclusive votes after interacting with the players. I know that was a small point to draw on so I didn't hesitate to unvote you.

1. What does the number of posts have to do with anything? I left the vote on because I hadn't decided where else to put it, and until he flaked he was my top scum read. The flaking mostly negated that though, and Scripten's posting set him back to null. But the point was that you claimed I

hadn't

provided reasoning, implying that you had checked, maybe hoping that those reading wouldn't bother to read and see you were misleading them?

2. Again you are trying to back down because you know you can't back up your accusation with fact. I'll make it easy for you: Give me one person you thought I didn't vote or offer a conclusion about.

[Huntress]

Now, is NPAU really the right target? I think, without looking back, that a lot of the case was on inactivity, which is really easy to target.
Don't get me wrong, it's not clear that NPAU is town either. If we've been led astray then go for the perp, and if the case is valid then we lynch and evaluate based on the flip.

There was a lot more than inactivity against him.

Scripten & Huntress, how strong are your NPAU reads? How do you feel about uctritron and Shinobi?

I had an early twinge about NPAU which I explained in 48 and the scummy feeling I've been getting from his posts has continued. He has also been dropping votes around and making stuff up to justify them. See particularly our exchanges re: his vote on me, and his second vote on GM when he put her at L-1 in 634. His third point there is not true and the other points are sketchy.

Re: uctritron and Shinobi nothing has changed since 870 apart from the fact that uctritron hasn't yet answered my questions from that post which gives me a bit of a bad vibe, but he's a distant third at the moment.

[Huntress]

The only person I would consider switching to is davesaz but I still think NPAU is more likely to be scum. I've looked at GM but I can't see what you are seeing there.

I'm around for another couple of hours but probably not much longer as the deadline is at nearly 4am my time.

[Huntress]

She had a very similar voting pattern in the last game I played with her and she was town there. She only moved her vote once in Day One and ended the day voting alone.

[Huntress]

Yep.

[Huntress]

It's not just vote hopping, it's the making stuff up to justify his votes. Check my ISO for the case against him.

[Huntress]

Happy birthday Mala!

My early scum read came from a catch up when I was joining the game. Did you want me to go over them?

Not all of them. It was just the read on Shinobi I was interested in. You referred to post 70 but didn't say what made you think it was scummy.

[Huntress]

Yeah, I don't blame him.

Why don't you blame him?

I keep coming back expecting the thread to explode but nobody looks like they're playing.

It's really disheartening. We need more people asking each other questions and scumhunting and stuff.

Getting a bad vibe from this. Before that quadruple post you had made only one post since Day started, so calling out others for not posting more seems a bit off. I'll comment on 1049 after Josh has had a chance to reply.

Vote: Dave

[Huntress]

Personally I prefer it like this:

Josh_B (2): Shinobi, davesaz
davesaz (2): BlueBloodedToffee, Huntress
Hephaestus (1): Josh_B
Peabody (1): Wisdom

but whatever you think is best for you.

I prefer it this way too. Much easier to read with the actual number of votes there.

[Huntress]

Yeah, I don't blame him.

Why don't you blame him?

The game seemed really inactive. I like the fact that it's picking up now, though. Idk how you're drawing any conclusions from this.

What conclusions have I drawn from that comment?

What I did point out, and you haven't responded to, is your implication in 1048 that you had been active and everyone else was lurking, whereas you had hardly done anything yourself up till then and almost everyone else had posted as much or more than you had.

What I don't get is why nobody has bothered to look at who Scripten would be dangerous to. Or if you're looking, nobody is saying anything about it.

Have you looked yourself? If so, what did you find? (And if you didn't, why are you expecting others to do it for you?) I think most of us look and at least one person has already got something from it.

@ Josh:

In post 1038 you said that the NPAU wagon set off alarms and that 701 actually seemed townish, but looking back at 758 you said that on play alone, NPAU still appeared scummy. Was your townish read on 701 made later? If not, why not say it at the time?

[Huntress]

Too many posts.

I'm going to try to sort out all the talk about Dave and Josh tomorrow to see if it affects my read on them and their accusers. I also need to take a good look at GM, Peabody and Heph as I haven't done that yet. Shinobi has been looking scummier toDay but I still think uctriton is the most likely of the two to be scum.

[Huntress]

I'm not so sure now about my vote on Dave.

Unvote

Still working on updating my reads.

[Huntress]

Huntress, I'd love it if you explained why you say/do things.

You never answered my 1296 either.

Because I haven't had time. I haven't ignored your post; it's just that I haven't had the peace and quiet I need to concentrate on this over the last couple of days, so what you're getting from me is impressions rather than worked out reads.

[Huntress]

I don't know. I think I may be trying to justify a reason for him being town now that I've seen his flip, or once I realized how many people were scum reading him, I tried to open my mind to the possibility that he was town which caused me to read his posts from a new perspective.

But you were still reading him as scummy after you posted about how many people were scumreading him so I guess it must be the former. Except that you were townreading him

before

the flip; so that doesn't make sense.

@ Dave:

Could you reply to my question in post 1129 please?

@ Wisdom:

My reason for saying Shinobi has been looking scummier toDay was mainly a gut feeling based on his early Day two posting. For example, compare 1048, where he seemed to be implying that he was being active and other people weren't, which wasn't the case at all, with this line from 1182: "The thread exploded and I don't have the time nor the energy to look into everything that was said." Ok I fully sympathise with the latter statement but in conjunction with the earlier one it doesn't feel so good. Maybe it's just a case of be careful what you ask for because you might get it.

I'm still seeing uctriton as more likely to be scum than Shinobi due to his Day one play. I'm pretty sure they aren't scum together.

[Huntress]

How is that scummy of Shinobi, huntress?

Because his post gave a false impression of the situation.

[Huntress]

If you didn't find anything significant enough to comment on, why the surprise that nobody is saying anything about it?

[Huntress]

Fair enough. I asked because your comment reminded me of a game where I caught scum who gave himself away by trying to get people to discuss his nightkill, (he had been trying to frame someone but nobody took his bait so he raised it himself), which is what I thought you might be doing there.

[Huntress]

Am I right in assuming you think one of uct and Shinobi is scum?

They are both scum reads but it's not a case of one of them being definitely scum. There's still a chance that they're both town. But not both scum I think so if one flipped scum it would clear the other.

[Huntress]

Town: Mala, GM, Wisdom
Maybe town: Heph, Dave
Not sure: BBT, Peabody, Josh
Scum: Uctriton, Shinobi

Main changes are Dave moving up to maybe town and BBT moving down.
Peabody seems too conscious of what people think of him and there are a few things that bother me about him, most of which have already come up in the thread. I didn't particularly like 1517 and it's follow-up 1524.
Josh is a bit of an enigma to me. I get the feeling that he is playing hard to get.
Wisdom is town mainly because I had a town read on MS and I haven't seen anything from Wisdom that makes me think otherwise.
GM is town because she doesn't seem at all worried about how she is viewed and I don't think she would have risked leaving the hammer so late as scum. (Yes, I know that's debatable but that's my thought on it.)
What I've seen so far of Heph seems townish and the lurking isn't a scum tell for him so that's more of a wait and see read.

But I have a question to ask you. What's your read on Mala? I know that you've responded to some of her questions, but you really haven't presented any of your own to her.

I have a town read on Mala. I haven't questioned her much, apart from in 720, because I didn't feel the need to.

[Huntress]

Huntress, why is Uct scum?

Mainly because of his Day one play. I thought he came out looking worse of the two in the exchange with Shinobi but that only gave me a weak scum read on him. In 870 I asked him three questions. After a prompt he said he had missed them. Then he evaded the first, answered the second and ignored the third. He ignored my 1028 in which I clarified the first question. (I don't seem to have chased up the third one.) It was the question dodging that increased my scumread on him. Especially in view of his comments about people not answering questions, which I found a bit ironic.

The other point from the end of Day one was not the hammer but his actions immediately after it. 1011 and 1012. I can't believe he actually thought NPAU would, or could, respond before the mod locked the thread so I can only think he posted those to look townie. If he had genuinely wanted a reply he would have asked before hammering, nor after.

One thing I'd go for are people in the thread who quickly say they know they should not have been on the lunch.

I hammered with intent in finding scum. If a town flips, scum can easily say yeah well it was a bad idea.

I'm clearly inefficient on an iPad to do this, but when I get to a desktop this weekend ill look deeper into that. It's a thought I have.

Did anything ever come of this?

[Huntress]

I can't believe he actually thought NPAU would, or could, respond before the mod locked the thread

Why not?

Because the mod had posted only one minute before. And because NPAU's last post (971) had already given his final reads.

Huntress, you scumread both uct and Shinobi. Do you agree that both being scum is quite unlikely?

I've already said as much. Trouble is, I'm not sure which way to go.

[Huntress]

GM is town because she doesn't seem at all worried about how she is viewed

Examples?

I get the exact opposite vibe.

Posts like 174, 175, 177, 179 and 210 for a start. It's how I read the tone of the posts.

1559 - Completely retracts everything. Josh and Pea are now town. Seriously. He actually did that.

What's the scum motivation in doing that?

But if Josh is town, why did Wisdom unvote? Did he think his work was done? Josh's lynch would be pushed through now and he could absolve himself of any responsibility by jumping off. I don't know. This is where I really need input.

If you really need input why aren't you considering both possibilities here? Town-Wisdom as well as scum-Wisdom.


I've been going back and forth on Shinobi and uctriton but I think that uct looks more likely of the two to be scum at the moment.

Vote: uctriton

But I'm willing to switch to Shinobi as I'm pretty much even on the two of them.

I just want to hear a little more from Huntress and Mala before tomorrow.

Is there anything in particular you want from me?

[Huntress]

Hi Nero!

Huntress explain

I've already explained. The fact that you ignored it was part of what tipped my vote in your direction.

How do you get a scum read on me, case please

Why a second post asking the same thing as the first?

[Huntress]

Probably. But still not good to intervene.

[Huntress]

Are you saying that you think Shinobi and uct are scum together? Because I'm not seeing that.

I'm fine with voting Shinobi. I could also also go for BBT but I'd much rather it was one of the other two. I'm just wanting to get a read on Nero first.

Would you be willing to move your vote to uct?

[Huntress]

Huntress, Why the heck is your vote over there when....

you have a scum read on Shinobi and it has the most support right now.

It didn't look like we were going to finish the Day before heph's replacement had arrived so I chose to vote uct hoping to get a response from him to my previous posts, but he just acted like they didn't exist which doesn't make me feel any better about him.

[Huntress]

I don't think Josh's request for the masons to claim comes from scum - unless he really is that bold as scum but it looks more like frustration to me - so that leaves my lynch pool as uct, Shinobi, Peabody and BBT.

So I might be on the wrong track about Uct if I'm right on something.

Gonna hold off from an Uct vote until I can find time to sort something out.

Any news on this yet?

I don't think this ever happened. I DID say that I thought MS was town and by extension Wisdom 'cause they are in the same slot.

If Wisdom was calling me town he may have been trying to get some town cred.

Might the converse also be true? It seems an odd thing to say of your townread.

[Huntress]

nope. I know Josh is misreading like crazy so maybe he's wrong about Wisdom saying that he knows that I was town but lets pretend that Josh is telling the truth (and not misreading) and Wisdom had said that he knew I was town. Why do you think town would say that?

Wisdom tends to be very definite in his reads, until he does a 180 degree turn on them, so it's quite possible he said that as town (no, I haven't checked). I don't think that in his case it's a scum tell.

Yeah. I'm not as comfortable with the Uct lynch as I was days ago. You shouldn't be either.

What have I missed? I've just been all through his ISO again and I'm not seeing it. Unless it's something from his meta, which I still haven't got round to looking at yet.

Unless they're waiting for Pea to respond first.

This. But his inconsistencies are among the things that got him on my scumlist. By the way, I think your first link should be to 378, not 328.

[Huntress]

@Hunt:

I'd point out why I feel that way at a later time, but right now isn't the time to do so. I'm being vague for a reason.

Ok. I'll lay off him for the moment then.

Vote: Peabody

Just like Dave was being kinda scummy and BBT was scum hunting him. You writing that off as "taking potshots" doesn't make sense.

Actually, "taking potshots at each other" is a fair description of the last sentences of 2015 and 2016. I agree with Shinobi there.

[Huntress]

I see Huntress's aggressiveness in 723, 871 on her number 2 point, a twinge of it in 870 too when talking to Josh. It doesn't concern me anymore, and after looking at the meta, she's overall pretty levelheaded anyway. That aggressiveness doesn't spark a scum read in me anymore.

My comment to Josh was made more with a feeling of slight amusement, in response to his comment about being ok with me thinking that. I wasn't scumreading him at the time and I thought that he might have had a good reason for holding back so I didn't want to push it.

Huntress, I know you said you are voting me based on inconsistancy, and I want to know which inconsistancies YOU are referencing. Is your case the same as BBT's? Do you have more to add?

No, not quite the same. I gave a brief summary in 1585 but I'll expand on that after dinner if you need more.

[Huntress]

Mala voted with no reasoning coupled with her vote. So did Huntress (and thankfully she provided at least something now).

I love the way you make it look like my reasoning was given

after

my vote, when in fact it was given nine days before.

To add to what I said earlier; I think BBT's first three points in 1985 were a bit of a stretch but the rest of it seems pretty much to the point apart from his comment on 1446 which didn't look to me like intentional sheeping.

[Huntress]

I believe Aegor is also going to vote for Pea.

If he realises when the deadline is. It didn't look like that from his last post.

I can switch to BBT if necessary but I'll leave it for four hours or so.

[Huntress]

A vampire cat!

[Huntress]

Uctriton and Shinobi are still my top scumreads, with BBT close behind. The others are probably in the order Josh, Dave, Nero, GM and Aegor, but I'm waiting to see what Aegor has to say in case that affects my reads.

I didn't like the way Dave put both BBT and Peabody to L-1 instead of just choosing one. He didn't ask for a claim but it did look a bit like he was fishing.

Vote: uctriton

[Huntress]

I guess you're going to explain that?

[Huntress]

Huh?

If you're scum that's a good move, cutting the Day short, but if you're town as you seem to be implying then it's a terrible move.

Only question I have is where do you place Dave? You didn't mention him at all in those posts.

[Huntress]

No. He self-hammered.

[Huntress]

The only person who I think can get away with CC me is Huntress.

Nope. No counterclaim from me.

Your mason claim feels genuine, and having had a quick look at your interactions with Shinobi I can't see anything there to make me doubt it.

Josh is looking scummiest at the moment but I'm going to think about it overnight before doing anything.


@ Josh: Why Aegor?

[Huntress]

VCA is like statistics. It can be used to prove anything you want it to, as you are demonstrating. There is a lot of confbias in there.

Dave is for sure town because of Zeb's last post. Scum don't post their reads when replacing out, that was his last effort to help town

Or his last effort to help his scumbuddies? Normally someone replacing out just goes, but he seemed anxious not to leave his team in the lurch, whoever they were. I don't think you can base an alignment call on that.

I'm still ok with lynching Josh today. Next would probably be Dave. Josh gave me a rather cryptic answer about him when I asked him about his reads 833.

[Huntress]

OK Huntress.

Ready to vote Josh then?

As soon as we've heard from Aegor. That's all I'm waiting for now. Although if he doesn't come up with something soon I'm tempted to go ahead anyway. I'm still fairly confident in my town read on that slot.

[Huntress]

Why do you think Nero is town? You don't seem to have explained that anywhere. I've had a townishish vibe from him and Heph but POE is telling me he can't be, unless I'm wrong on GM which I don't think I am.

@ Aegor:

What's your read on Dave?

Vote: Josh

[Huntress]

Wagon analysis is more useful, looking at every vote, not just the final count.

Reminds me of a game I was on a scum team of four in. None of us on the first two mislynches and I think all of us were on the third.

[Huntress]

Thanks for modding, Beast!

I'm ok with our PT being opened if it hasn't been yet.

That is why we do not vote in lylo without consensus about whom to vote.

Not sure why you quoted my post before this? And we did have consensus before voting. I waited because I was paranoid that BBT was trying to trap me somehow.

I would like people to rate me as a mod and tell me what I can do to improve in the future please. If it isn't too much trouble at least.

I think the game went smoothly and I liked the pace. Only thing that needed changing I think was the deadline which was a bit too long. Just try to keep to daily vote counts and prod checks and you should be fine.

This was a pretty fun game. I wish I'd been able to be active in it a little longer. My reads were kind of crap, though.

Any advice from others, though my contributions were admittedly minor?

I think you were doing ok. You were asking good questions and were being townread by most people.