Open 570: Making Friends and Enemies (Mafia Wins!)

[Shinobi]

/confirm

[Shinobi]

VOTE: AssMuffin

Because obviously.

[Shinobi]

That's some pretty blatant rolefishing.

@MS: Is there any particular reason you have gm as scum?

[Shinobi]

MS what the fuck are you doing?

[Shinobi]

Also, Huntress and Shinobi...why aren't you sheeping me?

I'm not sure if he's scum. He's been saying weird shit thus far, but it's MS: that's just how he is. I don't feel like anything he has said thus far has been particularly alignment indicative. Though I will admit that it's complete nonsense...

Why us, specifically? How did you get townreads on Huntress and me?

[Shinobi]

It's not a meta defense.

The thing you need to understand is that lynching someone because you don't like their playstyle is lynching someone for poor reasoning. Being weird doesn't make him scum. If we actually try to lynch him at this point in the game, it's nothing more than a policy lynch.

If you have an actual case on MS, I'd be more inclined to vote with you; otherwise, I'm not going to vote him.

[Shinobi]

Why, I'm trying to find out who's scum and catch them, of course!

This must be your first time seeing a master at work! No worries, watch and learn!

Bluebloodedtoffee, aren't you going to answer my questions? You should set a precedent for question-answering, otherwise people wouldn't want to answer your questions anymore for being a hypocrite

How exactly is your playstyle supposed to help us find scum? Everybody seems pretty clueless in regards to how you're handling things right now.

[Shinobi]

I feel like the term "defense" is being stretched particularly thin. I never really defended MS at that point in time; I stated that lynching him for being weird isn't a valid reason. And it isn't.

I didn't really feel like his entry post, in regards to his claiming both vanilla town and mason, is particularly damning evidence. What if he actually is a mason? Are you going to run him up just to find out? There are only two roles to claim in this setup, so claiming both of them at once while not at L-1 doesn't look particularly damning. Vote hopping is the only valid piece of evidence that I can see against him at this point, but I simply don't feel like this is a strong enough case to warrant my vote. If his nonsense continues or better evidence comes up, I'll consider voting him.

I would, however, love to hear more than three people talking about this.

[Shinobi]

I feel like the term "defense" is being stretched particularly thin. I never really defended MS at that point in time; I stated that lynching him for being weird isn't a valid reason. And it isn't.

I didn't really feel like his entry post, in regards to his claiming both vanilla town and mason, is particularly damning evidence. What if he actually is a mason? Are you going to run him up just to find out? There are only two roles to claim in this setup, so claiming both of them at once while not at L-1 doesn't look particularly damning. Vote hopping is the only valid piece of evidence that I can see against him at this point, but I simply don't feel like this is a strong enough case to warrant my vote. If his nonsense continues or better evidence comes up, I'll consider voting him.

I would, however, love to hear more than three people talking about this.

I would say you soft-defended him. It was nowhere near as blatant as MS' soft-defend of NPAU (nopointactingup) but it was there.

I'd like to run him up and find out, yeah. A Mason just wouldn't make a post like that, either he is a bad VT or he's scum, and I think the latter fits better with his play so far.

I would also like to hear from some more people. It would be excellent if they could read the thread and then sheep me.

I fail to see how "soft-defending" anyone is relevant information. Are you implying that NPAU is his scumbuddy? How does that make him scum in this circumstance? Why don't you think a mason would make that post?

[Shinobi]

I fail to see how "soft-defending" anyone is relevant information. Are you implying that NPAU is his scumbuddy? How does that make him scum in this circumstance? Why don't you think a mason would make that post?

It's not a whole lot to go on right now, but it can be very useful later in the game when there will have been flips/NK's.

I may be implying that NPAU could be his scum-buddy. Of course, he could be a Mason soft-defending his partner, but as I previously stated, I have already ruled this possibility out. Why do

you

think he took it upon himself to answer a question that was directed at somebody else?

I just don't think a Mason would essentially make a soft-claim like that in an entry post. It seems a little dangerous.

I just don't see the mason angle and I'd prefer to leave it at that. It should be obvious that talking about possible masons is bad, and this conversation could be used by scum for narrowing down possible mason suspects.

Regardless, I'm willing to wait for more thread development. I'm not willing to hop on this bandwagon as of right now.

[Shinobi]

I don't know. Maybe you should ask him instead of jumping to the conclusion that he's scum for answering someone else's question.

[Shinobi]

I don't know. Maybe you should ask him instead of jumping to the conclusion that he's scum for answering someone else's question.

I have. He chose not to respond.

That's not the only reason I'm scum-reading him either.

I'm aware, but that isn't the issue.

Without having his flip in front of you, that post could have come from town!MS or scum!MS, and you have no way of knowing otherwise. NPAU is actually guilty of doing this "soft-defending" as well, but you haven't seemed to have called him on it at all. What gives?

[Shinobi]

You didn't say anything up until now, so I would assume that you didn't. Unless you find it advantageous to hide information from the town.

What's your read on NPAU?

[Shinobi]

Fair enough, I guess.

[Shinobi]

Why is this game so quiet?!?

VOTE: nyayyaaa

Qft. Also a hilariously shameless prod dodge.

[Shinobi]

I think it's weird that MS is reading me as town so early.

Especially considering how hard I wound up burning him in the last game I was in.

[Shinobi]

I think it's weird that MS is reading me as town so early.

Especially considering how hard I wound up burning him in the last game I was in.

You didn't burn me, marquis did.

Fair enough. I have no interest in this argument regardless.

[Shinobi]

Totes.

[Shinobi]

Comments on the game state? I have a pretty strong scumread right now, guess who it is?

Is it gm?

I don't have any comments on the game state.

[Shinobi]

ISOing everyone, will post reads once finished

I'm loving the sense of context here.

[Shinobi]

No.

[Shinobi]

The answer will still be no.

[Shinobi]

I've thought about it and I have no idea what you think having me answer that question will accomplish.

Why ask it?

[Shinobi]

I've thought about it and I have no idea what you think having me answer that question will accomplish.

Why ask it?

It will accomplish making you readable.

I don't see what it is about that statement that has made it so inexplicable for you.

No, it really won't.

The only answer that I could feasibly give you is one that is generic; thus, you should already know the answer and asking the question is a waste of time as a whole.

[Shinobi]

Okay, let's move on from the fact that I think that question is dumb and I'll give you an answer even though I really don't want to:

Because ISOing players during day 1 isn't going to produce much in the way of findings, especially when you can just read the thread and glean the exact same information but with better context. Using an ISO this early is needless busywork and it's just generally better to ask questions and play the game. Even if you didn't want to talk much, reading the thread is still better because looking at a pure ISO doesn't give you the same quality of read because of a lack of context.

And that isn't even getting into the fact that nothing of importance has actually warranted an ISO dive, in my opinion.

So how does this answer make me readable in any way? How does this help you figure out my alignment?

[Shinobi]

Up until this post, your last few posts were anti-town at best and scummy at worst. Would you like to actually contribute to the game now?

[Shinobi]

Ebwop:

Up until this post, your last few posts were anti-town at best and scummy at worst. Would you like to actually contribute to the game now?

lol

[Shinobi]

I'm putting BBT in my anti-sheep list. That's how little faith I have in him right now.

[Shinobi]

Can someone explain the goodmorning case to me?

And don't use MS's case because that case is tuurbz.

[Shinobi]

I never called Mala out. Get that clear pls. Mala's posts have all been pretty towny/lighthearted in my opinion.

[Shinobi]

What an awful answer. Can you elaborate on this please? What do you care for? What don't you care for? How are you reading GM and NPAU right now?

1.Nope
2. ...
3. ...
4. I'm fence sitting until some sort of conviction sets in. But if you must know, I'm considering sheeping your current vote because this post...

I'm putting BBT in my anti-sheep list. That's how little faith I have in him right now.

... makes me feel like your vote is significant, But I'm happy where I am at the moment.

I don't get it. Explain?

[Shinobi]

I'm sure I'll start paying attention to this game eventually.

Sorry to see you go Zeb.

[Shinobi]

Also, I'm going to guess that Uncle Sonic is town, albeit a weird persona.

[Shinobi]

Npau, why is it that you think it's bad that Mala doesn't have a serious vote down but you've completely ignored the fact that I haven't either?

[Shinobi]

Because I'm a hell of a lot easier to lynch than you are at this point in time.

A recurring theme which I find hilarious.

[Shinobi]

I haven't really been paying attention to this game much, so consider this somewhat of a prod dodge/catch up post.

BBT vs Mala looks almost exactly like a bog-standard TvT fight: lots of point-by-point analysis being done on each other and lots of passion from both sides. I'd really like you two to stop fighting and to move on to something else, because it looks like you two butt heads every single time you're both in the thread.

I can't even remember where my vote is or why I put it there, so UNVOTE: .

NPAU is scummy for the following reasons: his frequent vote swapping/shoddy reasoning is more in-line with spreading doubt rather than solving the game, but somebody probably already pointed it out.

Someone is going to have to explain the GM wagon to me at some point, and preferably in non-MS terms. Mala's case seems okay but some evidence would be great.

Also, if the people calling me scummy could, like, shut up, that would be great. I'll get more up-to-date at some point.

[Shinobi]

This game gets my fullest attention tomorrow.

Why did NPAU put GM to L-1? His vote moves around so much for such faulty reasons. Ugh.

[Shinobi]

I was gonna do stuff but I really can't be assed right now. I have been overcome with a horrifying case of lazy. Tomorrow I will be paying attention to this game for realsies.

[Shinobi]

NPAU you have like 50 scumreads.

Don't get pissy at me when I call you out for having too many.

[Shinobi]

I hate how everyone is drawing associative reads from everything.

I'm looking at them and they all look dumb. Maybe it's just me.

[Shinobi]

I love how every time I post, I go up in people's town lists.

[Shinobi]

I hate how everyone is drawing associative reads from everything.

I'm looking at them and they all look dumb. Maybe it's just me.

I hate how everyone is drawing associative reads from everything.

I'm looking at them and they all look dumb. Maybe it's just me.

I agree. Associative reads without flips/relevant information are indeed dumb.

Yeah I have never fully understood why people do it, but I'm guilty of doing it myself accidentally sometimes

You can get associative reads from the pattern of voting even before a lynch is reached, if you notice that 2 or more people are together when wagons swing, or counteract each other. And also from who people support or lock in on. But I would agree in part, you might have reason to say they're the same or opposite alignment, but not know which is which until there is a flip.

It is also possible to use associations in a PoE manner. It's much easier to find the negative "probably not associated with" than the positive. Someone who looks like they can't possibly be associated with anyone may be more likely to be not scum.

Yeah. After flips.

Before flips, it's irrelevant. It's an awfully convenient way of having reads that can be changed without engaging someone or trying to understand their motivations.

[Shinobi]

Your 729 answers it. I think if we are right on NPAU being scum it sets up some people to be town.

GM for same reasons why I've said I don't think they're on the same team.
Scripten for that well thought out case on NPAU (I would doubt its worth it to bus on Day 1 with 13 players, and I doubt a bus would have that much effort Scripten put. In my personal cases of bussing, usually it's some half assed sentence or idea, not a thought out case like that)

Stuff like this doesn't make sense. If NPAU is scum, then sure, I guess. Maybe. It depends on who was pushing him and why.

If he's not, then we've basically enticed a shitload of people into believing they'll be more town by voting off a townie. <-------------------------An inherently mafia mindset oriented push.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: uctriton

Okay. I have found the bullshit. I am attacking it.

[Shinobi]

Your 729 answers it. I think if we are right on NPAU being scum it sets up some people to be town.

GM for same reasons why I've said I don't think they're on the same team.
Scripten for that well thought out case on NPAU (I would doubt its worth it to bus on Day 1 with 13 players, and I doubt a bus would have that much effort Scripten put. In my personal cases of bussing, usually it's some half assed sentence or idea, not a thought out case like that)

If NPAU showed up as town, would that change things? That was what I was really asking.

This is basically why we kill uct, for the record.

[Shinobi]

Here's a one-liner for you:

I've discovered that uct is scum and you should vote him with me.

[Shinobi]

I've discovered that uct is scum and you should vote him with me.

hi there reaction test

Not a reaction test.

[Shinobi]

When I get hold of a computer, I'll tell you all why we're lynching duct.

[Shinobi]

Uct.

Stupid kindle.

[Shinobi]

I slept on it and thought about it the rest of the day, unfortunately there's no update. I'm just not seeing the town motivation behind anything being said right now.

Bar him cueing up a total backtrack right now (which he basically gave up his only out of calling it a reaction test, and has said that it's a straight scum read), I don't see how his poking is town motivated. I've wrapped it around my head for a while and still can't see it.

So where's the scum motivation, specifically?

You're saying that there's no town motivation whatsoever, but you leave any other kind of interpretation of my actions out of your posts.

[Shinobi]

I'm going to hold on to my case for a while, because how it turns out depends on how you answer my next few questions.

[Shinobi]

Stop worrying about Mala because Mala is town. That entire conversation is basically nothing more than useless meta arguments combined with playstyle clashes, which results in nothing but meaningless white noise. If Mala is somehow scum here, then whatever the fuck you guys are doing basically just gave her a lot to talk about. We are not lynching an outspoken/active player on day 1.

Instead, let's focus on the guy I'm voting. The guy who was posting here not even a minute before I was and then immediately fucks off when I pressure him.

[Shinobi]

Simple question shinobi:

What is your case on me?

Without help from others, please show your work.

See, the fun part about this game is that I'm not required to explain anything to you. Even if you don't answer my question, I'm still going to get people to vote you for being mafia.

Alternatively alternatively:

The reason it doesn't swing all the way to town for me is that scum could make the same point that Shinobi did in order to cast doubts on the townpeople on the NPAU wagon to deflect suspicion from a buddy.

Do you see town motivation in Shinobi's posts, esp. the latest ones where he started stabbing at me?

You could stop being so hypocritical.

[Shinobi]

The reason it doesn't swing all the way to town for me is that scum could make the same point that Shinobi did in order to cast doubts on the townpeople on the NPAU wagon to deflect suspicion from a buddy.

Do you see town motivation in Shinobi's posts, esp. the latest ones where he started stabbing at me?

You're joking, right?

You should move your vote onto him.

Instead of keeping it on a useless wagon that will never happen, like Sonic's.

Pedit: Fucking lol. Kill this dude.

[Shinobi]

That's because I never actually posted my case.

Are you fucking dense.

[Shinobi]

I told you I wasn't going to post it because I wanted to ask you questions to hopefully make it stronger or weaker. And then you said you weren't going to answer my questions because I haven't posted my case.

So then you made a case on me not posting my case because you weren't answering my questions. Then you said you were answering questions.

Do you or do you not see the issue with how dumb this conversation is.

Pedit: cursing is fun. You know it to be true.

[Shinobi]

Here's my current problem with you: I could have a case, or I could have no case, and you simply have no way of knowing the difference without me straight up telling you what my case is or isn't. You can't draw a conclusion based on what I might or might not say if I haven't said anything to begin with. It looks like you're just flipping the fuck out because someone is attacking you and immediately accusing them of having "no town thought process." I don't have to "run your reactions through mud" because they look nonsensical with or without my input. Here's our current sequence of events:

1) I called you scummy because of reasons that I haven't yet disclosed.
2) You flipped out and said I have no town motivation for anything.
3) I asked you a question, and you still haven't answered it because I haven't posted my case.
4) You made a case which I've already debunked.
5) You came up with more reasons to vote me because of things that

you

did in another game.

You're making it impossible for me to get a good read on you because I really can't tell where you're coming from. You can't call someone scum and come up with reasoning

afterwards

because that doesn't make sense.

As for your proposed scumteam, I've already come out with reasons as to why I would vote NPAU. Why is it that you think that I'm his scumpartner if I already said I'm totally willing to vote him?

Alternatively, if I'm not scum, who is and why?

[Shinobi]

I seriously don't know what to do with Shin v Uct.

Two notes. I find it strange that uct already moved his vote onto Shinobi. I would like to eventually hear Shinobi's case as well.

From this interaction, I'm feeling like at least one of the two is town.

Why?

To the second part, that is.

[Shinobi]

Fair enough, I suppose.

[Shinobi]

Btw, I already posted most of my case in posts #732 and #733. I'm surprised everybody overlooked what I said.

[Shinobi]

The issue isn't "was NPAU getting bussed or not" because that kind of question is a rabbit hole of wifom at this point of the game.

The issue is that uct's reasoning completely falls apart if NPAU is town. In theory, town lynches are all illogical because lynching town inherently makes no sense. Uct's reasoning for his scumread boils down to "it sets people up to be town" which is nothing more than convenience for the sake of convenience.

Furthermore, who sits down and says "my two scumreads are totally willing to vote each other" and thinks that that makes total sense?

In seriousness, there's something I really don't get here. When I get poked by people, my first reaction is "OK, explain, let's talk." It's not to instantly say "there's no Town motivation in this."

There's plenty of Town motivation in trying to figure out the game. So why panic-discredit?

Even if my reasoning wasn't spectacular, and I still think it is, I feel like we got a ton of mileage out of my accusation.

[Shinobi]

His reasoning for voting NPAU is "it sets people up to be town." Alternatively, you can check his #673 for more reasons (NPAU put someone at L-1) which is not a reason to kill someone.

He basically determined his ideal lynch off of someone putting another player at L-1 and then created a reality based around that person being scum. This is exactly what it looks like to me.

It's doesn't matter if you think that he made a case or not. His reasoning is bad.

[Shinobi]

Forgot to include Shinobi's brazen avoidance of "I don't have to explain anything to you", which is scummy enough to me to where I think he's scum, so that's why I voted him.

You are never going to convince your target that they are mafia. That is simply not how this game works.

So getting mad at me for not walking you through my initial thought process is more than a little ridiculous.

[Shinobi]

NPAU is scummier; the Shinobi case's standing is that he's bringing a fake vote on, with motivation to get off NPAU

I'd still want NPAU lynched, and would be willing to Intent if he ever gets to L-1 one day

This is so hilariously not the case.

[Shinobi]

This is just a first impression:

Uct pings me as town from this 1v1.

Tbh I'm starting to come around to the same idea, but I'm not sure if it's because NPAU not doing anything is making me hesitant or if uct is actually town.

[Shinobi]

You are never going to convince your target that they are mafia. That is simply not how this game works.

I reread this like 3 times but am assuming you misworded it. "You are never going to convince your target that they are mafia."

What are you talking about? Are you saying I am trying to convince you that you are Mafia? Are you trying to convince me that I am Mafia? What? As far as I know, all I did was ask "Shinobi, why am I the bullshit on the wagon? Why is it me?"

I'm mad at you because you simply said "I don't have to explain anything to you". That to me is scummy.

So am I scummy because you're mad at me or am I scummy because I play the game differently than you?

[Shinobi]

i dont rly care lalalala

This helps us a lot.

Does this mean that you consider both Shinobi and uctriton00 to be town or what?

I think everyone is considering this afaik.

[Shinobi]

Rofl, I think so.

I really don't think it's a bad thing to find town.

[Shinobi]

UNVOTE:

[Shinobi]

Mala wagon isn't happening, so if we could just not.

@GM: So what if my case was weak? I thought it was strong. I pushed it and I figured out I was wrong. What's the problem with that?

[Shinobi]

You're scummy because you are acting scummy

damn!

Lol'd irl.

[Shinobi]

Shin -- I didn't like the defense in the newbie game and I sure as hell don't like it now. T_T

At first I misread NPAU's post thought he was saying he was okay with the lynch on himself. Which felt like AtE, but reading back on it further is not what he said at all.

I'm off today so I'll prob look through the game a bit more, but deadline is close so we do need a lynch. So I'll put my vote to the NPAU wagon if needed.

Sorry, I defend my townreads.

[Shinobi]

Nah, I'm totes here.

[Shinobi]

I just really don't feel like dealing with you.

[Shinobi]

The reality of it is that your scumread is based on the fact that you don't like the way I talk/play. I argued about why your scumread is bad, but I don't see why that matters because you're just coming up with other reasons to come after me. It seems like nothing I say is ever going to convince you otherwise. I could give you the most amazing answer in the world and you'd still be coming after me.

If there's something else to it, then I must have missed it, because that's all it looks like from where I'm standing.

[Shinobi]

Plus I'm still waiting on a Shinobi response; he posted earlier today, and I'll give him benefit of the doubt that he's at work.

Just hope that I don't get a "I don't have to explain anything" scummy response again. Rehashing the question again:

"What was your original case on me, and how did it change to a town read all of a sudden?"

I just really don't feel like dealing with you.

Can we have a refresh? Someone wants a question answered and the other one refuses to answer the question because the asker hasn't posted something. Can't recall who is asking, who is refusing to answer, and what the various cases are.

Alternatively you could stop blowing something useless out of proportion.

[Shinobi]

Both of these questions can be answered by reading my filter.

[Shinobi]

Actually I feel warm and fuzzy about this vote:

VOTE: goodmorning

Why are you nitpicking at the fight between uct and me? It looks and feels like you're trying to spread doubt because you didn't really draw any conclusions about what you were speculating on. What are your reads on us?

[Shinobi]

I am such a boss that I started a second wagon on goodmorning.

As if that's even possible.

I have broken the laws of Mafia.

[Shinobi]

Uctriton is scum

Ugh

You're scum aren't you

Do you have any genuine scumreads that aren't centered around omgus?

[Shinobi]

Huntress sorry I keep missing stuff if you ask I'm just miffed that more people down weigh in on something I think we clearly need to address

He'll if Shinobi is town then it's in my meta I'm totally willing to admit I'm wrong but that's neither here nor there because I think I'm right but would at least like outside opinions

To answer your 870. The one vote bothers me because it didnt look backed up at all (I know Shinobi goes "yeah look at post number blah blah", because if it was a genuine vote, Town would have zero problem reiterating it when challenged. Simply put, if you're a townie and you have an idea, you easily spit it out and share your logic when someone asks. Shinobi decided to go "I don't explain anything" and is now trolling along because he knows he has 0 outside pressure, which I'm applying for people to put.

My early scum read came from a catch up when I was joining the game. Did you want me to go over them?

I have no idea how it's impossible for you to realize how self-perpetuating your logic is. If you just answered my question to begin with you wouldn't even have grounds for a scumread. You dodged my question and then came up with this gigantic ridiculous storyline about how I'm "hiding information" and all this nonsense.

[Shinobi]

Actually I feel warm and fuzzy about this vote:

VOTE: goodmorning

Why are you nitpicking at the fight between uct and me? It looks and feels like you're trying to spread doubt because you didn't really draw any conclusions about what you were speculating on. What are your reads on us?

I literally do not know what you are talking about.

I will repeat: both of you don't come out of it well, you for failing to stand and deliver and he for calling a pro-town action scummy.

That said, my readslist currently stands here:
Town (L>G): Huntress, Malakittens, Josh_B, Peabody, BlueBloodedToffee, Scripten
Null (T>S): Shinobi, ucitron00, dave
Scum (G>L): Metal Sonic, nopointinactingup, hephaestus

My minor problems with the two of you are outweighed at this point by dave with his heavy-handed hinting here, and still more by my much harder scumreads on others; I wouldn't be interested in a lynch on either of you at this stage.

I'm not sure I can accept this as an answer. I gave my case, but I don't understand what your reasoning is that leads you to believe that putting off posting my case the way I did warrants a null read. If it's null, why don't you put more effort into figuring me out? Why aren't you interested in pressuring me to see why I did things the way I did? Did you draw any conclusions from the other posts I made earlier in the game? Where do you stand on those?

[Shinobi]

The npau lynch is probably going to be the only lynch that happens at this point.

[Shinobi]

I'll try to be around for the absolute end of day if a lynch doesn't happen, but I might not be. I think GM is the higher percentage scum lynch between these two targets.

I already said I wasn't sure, and the posts since I revoted have made me less sure. But hopping to GM feels like hopping to town. I think I'll watch the thread and clock.

Why are you town-reading GM?

GM's reply to one of my posts. Town is way more likely to give that reply than scum. In fact, I'm nearly certain that GM is town because of a single sentence. No, I'm not going to quote it now.

Considering that your townread's life might depend on your quote, I'd say you've got a lot of incentive to quote it now.

[Shinobi]

I can't wrap my head around Josh's vote yesterday.

It was completely useless and there was no way MS was getting lynched at that point. And I don't even particularly see the point of what his case was.

[Shinobi]

Metal Sonic has asked to be replaced. So there is that.

Yeah, I don't blame him.

[Shinobi]

I didn't care for either wagon yesterday.

GM isn't clear because of the quick wagon, but it makes me think she's more likely to be town.

What's your read on GM as of right now?

[Shinobi]

I keep coming back expecting the thread to explode but nobody looks like they're playing.

It's really disheartening. We need more people asking each other questions and scumhunting and stuff.

[Shinobi]

I can't wrap my head around Josh's vote yesterday.

It was completely useless and there was no way MS was getting lynched at that point. And I don't even particularly see the point of what his case was.

After

Hmmmmmm Sonic might be Scum.

Vote:Goodmorning

Why?

Any assertion of a GoodMorning/NPAU scum team might as well be a scum claim. Or you need to come up with a sure fire explanation of bussing which even with all of the WIFOM at my disposal, I can't do.
People that jump out to me specifically as having pushed that case are MetalSonic and Hepheastus, but I'm open to anyone else that also seemed to be claiming that team.

I tried to lynch Hephestus before we were in last minute crunch time, and no one wanted to follow through with it. I made a case that I thought NPAU probably wasn't scum. The speed of the GM wagon was suspect, the speed of the de escalation was even more suspect.

I'm pretty sure everyone/almost everyone had a chance to log in during the last 24 hours. Obviously, I don't know anymore than any other townie, but NPAU wagon set off alarms and 701 actually seems townish.

Hold up.

Back when that post was made, you never bothered to pull anyone off of the NPAU when he supposedly made a really towny post. You were fixated on shit that didn't matter (IE how I was joking about being townread every single time I posted.) Why is it that you didn't try to pull anyone off of the lynch when you thought he was towny?

VOTE: Josh

[Shinobi]

Yeah, I don't blame him.

Why don't you blame him?

The game seemed really inactive. I like the fact that it's picking up now, though. Idk how you're drawing any conclusions from this.

Shinobi.

do you want to vote metal Sonic? I would ask him about the OMGUS but he's replacing out.

BBT. shinobi pointed out that I didn't like the lynch and made an awkward useless vote. YOu've pointed out that Davesaz didn't like the lynch but went along with it anyways.

It seems like two very opposite ends of the spectrum as far as actions go. How did you view davsaz in dp1?

I want to lynch both of you.

[Shinobi]

Both you and Dave, specifically.

[Shinobi]

Obviously, I was concerned that NPAU might have been mason. At least one of you figured out what I was trying to say -- don't remember who it was though. So I pulled back and tried to find the association. If I had been able to find one, I would have been convinced, and went on to attack the person attacking the associate. But in all the combinations of interactions with NPAU I couldn't find a plausible attacker and defender.

So the upshot is, if you have reservations about a lynch say nothing? Or stay off, vote a meaningless target, and let it go no-lynch?

I think that from {BBT, Mala, Josh} we'll find our scum. Don't know which 2. Uctritron comes in a distant 4th.

What I don't get is why nobody has bothered to look at who Scripten would be dangerous to. Or if you're looking, nobody is saying anything about it.

VOTE: Josh

So you voted NPAU even though you thought he was a mason?

[Shinobi]

Yeah I'm looking at that post and I want to murder you for it.

Bad.

[Shinobi]

I didn't know you only had like 300 posts here.

Okay. This changes things up a bit. I'll rethink you.

[Shinobi]

I'm trying to ask questions to get the game going.
Shinobi, you would do well to try something similar rather than complain.

I'm clearly asking questions right now. I don't know where this is coming from.

[Shinobi]

On the flip side, I pity my buddy when I finally do catch a scum role.

Where else have you played?

[Shinobi]

WHA! misrep much? This statement cannot possibly be true, when everyone else is talking about how I voted for Metal Sonic, didn't jump on the NPAU wagon, and tried to make a case about why he and Hephastus were both scum and no one listened.

Fixated is a poor term here, since that post about you being more townie when you post was off- hand, and I was in the middle of a conversation with Malakittens about her OMGUS.

It's unfortunate, but I can't make up anyone else's mind for them, and I don't have any extra votes, or vote controlling powers, so I think it's ridiculous for you to blame me for that lynch going through. When chances are, it was more likely padded with scum than not.

Of course you can't. You didn't even try. You made one post at the last second because you were commenting on how townie I looked and voted yourself for whatever reason. Why is it that you insist on wasting time while a wagon is building up on your townread?

And it's not even like I blame you for the lynch. I'm accusing you of trying to avoid responsibility of lynching town while being useless in other areas. I refuse to believe that you had a legitimate townread on NPAU and that you basically let him get run up until the last 24 hours, when you're not going to convince shit.

[Shinobi]

Sorry you're Scum and I have to get you lynched Wisdom

it's ok, we can still be fraaaannnssss

On a more serious note, what would Josh have gained from trying to divert a wagon at deadline? (@Shinobi)

He doesn't have to be a part of a bad wagon.

Hence nobody can call him out for lynching town.

[Shinobi]

Why do you think Wisdom is scum?

[Shinobi]

I've been busy most of today and I'm kind of drained.

The one thing I'll note is that Wisdom is incredibly town and I'm inclined to sheep him. His reads are totally in congruence with the thread and it feels like he's taking a strong town leadership position in order to move the game forward. The way he's going about posting his reads indicates that he's striving for clarity and they all construct the message "I am helping the town." I like it. No wishy-washiness, just lots of strong opinions backed by analysis and a desire to sort out things that he doesn't care for, a la the whole Dave debacle.

I'm going to spend time looking into Peabody.

I'll follow up on Josh as well as GM at some point, definitely not now though. I simply don't have the energy to pick fights atm. I feel like there's a scum between him and GM, but I don't know who it is. The thread exploded and I don't have the time nor the energy to look into everything that was said.

[Shinobi]

lol

[Shinobi]

@Toffee/Shinobi: If [dave/Josh] had tried to save npiau, what would he gain as Town? As Scum?

IT IS ACTUALLY AN IMPORTANT QUESTION OK

I don't particularly care for dave. I'm willing to take Wisdom's advice here and leave him alone, and I was already reconsidering him earlier because I didn't feel like I had a super strong case on him.

My biggest issue with josh stems from the fact that he started some wagon that was never going to take off at the last second, thereby distancing himself from a town wagon. It reeks of avoiding responsibility and shows a desire to hide.

I'm willing to accept that my off-site experience might be coloring my read here, since they play mafia quite differently from here.

[Shinobi]

I just told you. I didn't dodge the question.

[Shinobi]

I'm thinking most of your problem comes from a playstyle clash, since mafiascum is so different from where I normally play.

[Shinobi]

No, I answered the question.

[Shinobi]

Actually, I can give a better answer:

Why would you sit around and vote yourself/let people sit on the NPAU wagon when you have a townread on him? He never bothered to defend his townread despite knowing that he was the leading wagon almost all of day 1. He was sitting around commenting on useless stuff and doing little to divert attention from the wagon right up until the last 24 hours, where he posts a case on MS that has no chance of gaining momentum right before lynch.

He looks good when NPAU flips town because he wasn't on the wagon. He says that he had a townread on NPAU from earlier but he was commenting on useless stuff instead. Idgi.

[Shinobi]

Also I was under the impression that Dave liked the NPAU wagon and only jumped off when he thought he could be a mason.

Am I misrepresenting this?

[Shinobi]

If that's the only reason that you want to lynch dave, I'm probably not going to lynch him then.

Got any other reasons?

[Shinobi]

But then he jumped back on because he determined that the link did not actually exist.

But he can't discuss this link because he may be outing a Mason. Even though the person he thought was Mason can't be a Mason because it was based on the assumption that NPAU was Mason, which we now know he was not.

Okay.

Why would scum say something that could be easily verified as a lie or not? Would a scum!Dave have interest in hiding his potential mason links upon being pressured? If he determined that the link doesn't actually exist, would he have a reason for his vote? Is it a good one? Is this thought congruent with the rest of his filter? Why?

You've found one thing that

might

make someone scum, but you need to back it up with more evidence. Why is it that only a scum!Dave could come up with this reasoning?

[Shinobi]

I get the feeling you're not reading.

I have very clearly and explicitly stated my case. I have even re-stated sections of it.

I'm getting frustrated now.

Chill. I looked at your case before and I wasn't convinced by it then either. I feel like I could get a better understanding for what's going on by talking it over with you.

Is that really such a bad thing?

[Shinobi]

Looking back, I'm not sure if I want to vote Josh or not. I really don't know where I stand on his lack of concern for the NPAU wagon. He tried to start another wagon on Hephaestus beforehand, but I don't really get the feeling that he was actually pushing all that hard. Idk.

I can't remember a single thing Peabody has said all game. As soon as I get back from the gym I'm going to look into him.

[Shinobi]

I literally hate everything. It's genuinely important and you all just go "oh, it's a hypothetical, it doesn't matter"

IT FUCKING MATTERS, OK

Let me answer it, since you don't seem to want to:
npiau was going to be lynched. It was close to deadline, and he was the wagon that was up enough to get there.
As Scum, you don't fight the wagon because you want him lynched and you don't want to look like you knew he was Town.
As Town, you don't fight the wagon because a lynch on Town is better then no lynch at all, plus you can't be certain you're right - maybe the people who put the wagon at L-1 are on to something.

So, if either of them is Scum, why admit to not finding npiau scummy at the last moment?

It's not a hypothetical. Josh came up with another wagon 24 hours before deadline which had no chance of convincing anyone. Where's any kind of motivation for it? All you're pointing to is the fact that voting on the NPAU wagon makes sense if you're town

or

scum. If neither of those answers are satisfactory in terms of finding out why he did what he did, then why are you listing two completely different scenarios which don't explain his actions at all?

[Shinobi]

SHINOBI AND BBT- look at you two working together to push the same case on two different people. I'm having flash backs from a recent game.... BBT even the part where you asked the same question 50 billion times even though it was already answered. Have you been Metagaming recently?

If you want to do something productive with your posts, why aren't you looking at the people that voted for NPAU all willy nilly. for no reason, or reasons that didn't make sense?

Oh, I know, why don't you look at the people that were splitting the votes? Do you both really need to see GM's lynch to show that the top two wagons at dead line where shit wagons?

You yourself said that these two cases are completely different. Don't tell me they're the same because you know that they aren't.

Widsom- I don't trust you yet. Why a peabody wagon?

I thought Metal Sonic claimed scum.

[Shinobi]

I'm going to put off talking to/about Peabody for a while. Probably until he can post again.

[Shinobi]

Unless your point is that bbt's bullshit don't make dave scum, in which case I fully agree.

GM is talking about how Josh's moving to a wagon at the last second with total conviction and a desire to avoid lynching town has neither town nor scum motivation; thus it only has town motivation behind it.

[Shinobi]

OK, first of all, Sonic was MY wagon, not Josh's.
Second: my point is that one can eliminate the Scum motivation

when we answer the question in the last line of my post

. What do we have left? Town.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. You stated intent to hammer NPAU; I was under the impression that being able to move just to get a lynch is a normal move regardless of alignment.

Josh, on the other hand, jumped onto Metal Sonic specifically so he wouldn't be on the NPAU wagon. There is

tons

of mafia motivation to hop off/steer clear of a town wagon for the sake of looking more town. All I see when I see that post is "I refuse to lynch town, this wagon is obviously bad for all of the no reasons I have given you." It was designed to make him look good and to have precisely no impact. All I see is mafia motivation.

He isn't even bothering to push the guy he was confident enough to divert a last minute lynch onto, even after he stated that MS claimed scum, and now he's considering voting with the same slot. Where did the progression of his read go? If he's so confident on MS being scum because he said his reads don't make sense, why isn't he following up on it now? And why did he start the day with a vote on Heph if he was confident enough to switch to MS at the last second? What changed in the interim?

[Shinobi]

Even if I didn't feel like I had a case on Josh, I could kill him just for self voting and playing against his win con.

If he's town here, he's playing like an asshole.

[Shinobi]

Idk, BBT's case feels really convoluted because Dave wound up on the wagon anyway. I'm probably going to look over what he's saying but I didn't feel particularly convinced when I read his case the first time.

I really don't understand how people think they're the same thing, because I don't think they are.

[Shinobi]

What changed in the interim?

MS replaced out, and I don't expect Wisdom to be able to justify the actions of a different player. Do you even read? Wisdom and I are having a conversation about reads. It's almost like I'm making it a point to interact with the new player who is in a slot that I find scummy.

That's not what I'm talking about. As soon as day started, you voted Hephaestus instead of MS even though MS was still in the game, so either you forgot your own convictions which you were so adamant about at EoD or you made up reasons to vote MS because you wouldn't have been on the wrong wagon.

Your townread on dave is the epitome of making up reasons. He said he is town, so he's town? Really? I don't believe that for a second. You're not taking any of his posts into account other than "townclaim lool" which doesn't mean anything at all.

And your reads list is complete garbage. Why are you townreading the people who you are townreading? I just see a list of names and nothing backing them, so how am I supposed to know how you reached your conclusions?

[Shinobi]

Ugh, I typed this whole thing out and Wisdom jumped on it before I could.

[Shinobi]

So your read on me is based on something you aren't even sure happened?

Thank you for reading the thread.

[Shinobi]

Also, you've never refuted my case on you. Ever. Calling it bad repeatedly is just a waste of time because I'm not going to listen to you if that's all you're going to say.

If you have an actual defense for what you were doing at the end of day 1, then by all means go for it. I haven't seen anything that you've posted that indicates any kind of reasonable defense.

[Shinobi]

Wisdom, I know that you are not a retard who can't read. Why are you dodging my answers?

I said Peabody was probably town, and I've said that I'll consider his answers to your questions as far as determining his alignment further.
Peabody hasn't answered your questions, therefore there is no reason for me to change my read on him being probably town. As far as a current read: POE, him not appearing to be suspicious, there being actually suspicious things from other players, gut.

Uctriton appears more town based on him forcing Shinobi to explain the case.

BBT has presented a case in this game that he used in a previous game, which resulted in town death.

And there plenty of uses for OMGUS votes. In this case
Me: Uctriton is town
Uctriton: OMGUS- Vote:you.
I think that if Uctriton were scum, he would be happy to have someone town read him. If he is town like he says he is, he might feel like being called town is suspicious.

Yeah, but that only explains the townread after you already townread him for next to nothing. He voted you for calling him town for no reason, and the fact that he voted you makes him town anyway?

You can't call him town after you've already called him town because your initial townread was still suspicious.

[Shinobi]

I need to reread the 1v1 because I don't remember much of it, but I do believe Shinobi was the one trying to sort out uctriton while uctriton stood there tunneling and ignoring everything Shinobi was saying.

On the other hand, uctriton was really calm and just kept answering with sheer logic.

IME, scum use the latter approach because they want to look good and earn cred, while townies flail without putting limits because they don't care. That's why I felt uctriton wasn't as town as Shinobi there.

Now that I reread though, I could see both being town. uctriton's actions weren't that unreasonable given Shinobi was tunneling.

I don't think this is entirely accurate. Uct started asking people if they saw any "town motivation" in my posts and started spamming up the thread. It looked rather panicky. Then he OMGUS'd me based on the fact that I hadn't posted my case, which I hadn't posted because I was pressuring him to answer some of my questions to make it stronger or weaker.

I didn't find any of it particularly calm or logical. Do you disagree?

[Shinobi]

Fair enough, I suppose.

[Shinobi]

me it must mean you've reached a conclusion, yes?

You're a good player. I have respect for your style. After this is all over, I hope that you can give me some tips on my play.

Scumclaim.

[Shinobi]

Wisdom: what are your thoughts on GM's interaction with the uct/me fight?

[Shinobi]

@Mala: it looked like Josh was basically conceding and talking to Wisdom like he was town while still scumreading him for no reason. Someone else covered it a bit probably. He's still defending himself but his defenses are still "eh."

Don't like how that's the only thing Mala wants to address while major shit is going down in thread. She fixates on a tiny thing that doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of today, but maybe it's just because of the V/LA.

I have some opinions on the current atmosphere but they're useless without flips. I'll just hold off on them for a while.

I think I have questions for some people at some point. I'll probably ask them later if I remember but I cba right now.

[Shinobi]

You might as well claim now if you're going to self.

[Shinobi]

I still don't even understand the majority of your scumreads either.

[Shinobi]

I'd still rather his claim be out in the open.

We still need people to vote and stuff, Mala hasn't even gotten the chance to get off of V/LA yet.

And

we have almost two weeks left.

[Shinobi]

But then I'd implore you to go after Shinobi just for fun

I believe that the most important thing that we got out of our back and forth is that I am more town than you.

I feel as if this is very important and I will continue to talk about it as an important plot point.

[Shinobi]

I was cracking a joke.

Really you guys.

[Shinobi]

That's not how irony works.

And furthermore, you're sheeping the lynch I started. Don't sit here and sling mud at me because you're agreeing with me.

[Shinobi]

That's not how irony works.

And furthermore, you're sheeping the lynch I started. Don't sit here and sling mud at me because you're agreeing with me.

Mod can we play vengeful mafia
And can I be lunched
And can I choose my vengeful target

Get at me you jobber, put up ya dukes.

[Shinobi]

I'm town.

Shinobi could be scum.

I could PL Heph just for lurking so hard.

Pea is scum.

Why is it that you're open to calling me scum after sheeping me onto Josh?

Also I have no idea why Wisdom is voting me.

[Shinobi]

Yeah, you sheeped me because of what I said about Josh. That's what you said.

Besides, scumhunting is subjective.

[Shinobi]

I'm sorry,

what

?

How is it that I've been doing nothing other than making Josh seem scummy? You've agreed with me on almost every point I've made, and then all of a sudden I'm scum for pushing your scumread? Why is it that "buddying" you is bad if I had fairly strong townread on you and you were posting a lot of what I wanted to post?

[Shinobi]

Except I've tried to sort out BBT twice now and I've poked at Mala.

How is this not engaging anyone? Have I just not engaged enough people for your liking or what? I think that Josh is scum, so saying that all I care for is making my scumread look bad is silly, especially when that's not even the case.

[Shinobi]

Then this can be resolved by reading my earlier posts.

Good talk.

[Shinobi]

You obviously haven't.

[Shinobi]

lol

BBT is funny.

[Shinobi]

Nha, he just realized that you're derpin' pretty hard.

Can't follow a case that isn't good and all that.

[Shinobi]

I have no idea what's going on in this game anymore.

[Shinobi]

I've engaged people and I've asked questions, but I fail to see what conclusions - in your mind - I should be drawing from the questions that I've asked thus far.

If you have all the answers to the questions I've asked and exactly how I should be interpreting them, let me know what they are. Then you can rub my feet and give me a massage because I won't need to solve the game anymore.

[Shinobi]

You're acting like I should have solid reads on every single player in the game right now and I don't.

Mala isn't posting so I can't question her.
GM is hardly playing so I can't question her. I've already tried asking you about her and you're just like "nah I don't think stuff about that stuff." I thought she was scummy earlier but I guess that just kind of evaporated into nothingness because you wanted it to.
Heph isn't playing so I can't question him.
I've had a townread on BBT for a while now and I don't know how you missed that.
I think you're town and I've explained that read.
I've already discovered that uct is town.
I think Josh is scum and I've explained why.
I don't feel like the dave case is strong, and I have a slight gut townread on him but that's it.

Realistically the only players I don't really have reads on for whatever reason are Peabody and Huntress, and I think it's more-or-less a lack of interest in those players. I don't know what you're doing here.

[Shinobi]

By my own self-admitted meta analysis, me ignoring Peabody and Huntress probably makes both of them scum because they are boring.

Qed.

[Shinobi]

I gave a townread on Mala - early - which you yourself commented on. I can't follow up on what she's doing now because she isn't doing anything.
Yes, Heph not playing magically prevents me from having a read on him. Magically.
Your comment on me subtly trying to get you to scumread GM is tinfoiling so hard that it's coming out of your nose. Maybe I just wanted your opinion on something I viewed as scummy. Apparently this isn't an acceptable answer to you.

I don't care about what uct is doing because I think he's town. It has nothing to do with "convenience;" it has everything to do with "I am wrong about uct and I see no reason to change my read." Again - what am I supposed to be suspicious of here? You keep dictating what I should/shouldn't be doing and it's ridiculous.

[Shinobi]

Rofl.

Okay.

[Shinobi]

Oh jeeze. Now it's my turn to sit back and throw stones while someone else does all the work, shinobi style.

Watching Wisdom question Shinobi is like watching my 5 year old dig out icecream with a plastic spoon. But hey look, a clear and clever contradiction.

You keep dictating what I should/shouldn't be doing and it's ridiculous.

Reminds me of a time not so long ago at the beginning of this DP. When a certain somebody was upset that somebody else didn't do enough to stop a wagon.

I support a Shinobi lynch

Except this isn't what I accused you of.

[Shinobi]

Ugh never.

Reads plx.

[Shinobi]

Except this isn't what I accused you of.

Does that change the part about dictating what other people should do?

No, because that isn't what I accused you of.

[Shinobi]

I've already discovered that uct is town.

I went over your ISO and i'm probably tired from work, but did anyone straight up ask you why you think i'm town and did you answer them, because all that I got from you is you saying that I'm a self perpetuating logic person.

To me, that doesn't show why anyone is town; in fact it shows scumminess.

Nobody has asked me, no.

Speaking of which, is there any particular reason your scumreads have all happened on the current likely wagons?

Maybe I should be more clear about the connection that I'm making and how it is a contradiction

Shinobi dictates that Josh should have taken an action retroactively
Wisdom dictates that Shinobi should have a flexible read on UcT.

You know what. I'm actually seeing a pattern here of Wisdom jumping around trying to get everyone to change their reads.
But Shinobi, I do want you to know that Mala has given her reads semi recently. So I'm not sure what you are asking for from her.
I kind feel silly asking for her, but I'm curious and I'm not sure if she's going to ask you herself.

Shinobi dictates that Josh shouldn't try to hop onto a stupid last minute wagon that he isn't even convinced enough to follow up on to avoid "lynching town."

It is not at all the same thing.

Also, my concern with Mala is that this huge fight broke out and she fixated on one little thing instead of posting thoughts on what was going on. I'm thinking it's probably because of the V/LA, but I need to know what she thinks of Wisdom v Josh.

[Shinobi]

At this rate, I see the day going to deadline.

Can we vote Shinobi or BBT already?

Nobody is going to listen to you because I'm town, so I don't know what you're trying to do here.

And I think BBT is town, so...Good luck with that, bro.

[Shinobi]

Uct for me is becoming more and more scum in my eyes.

I don't like the change of his read on Heph. This seems really opportunistic IMO. He hasn't answered a question that I asked him back in D1 in regards to a comment that he made on Heph. This seems to me that he can't back up what he was trying to convey back in D1.

VOTE: Uct

Shinobi this would be the time to explain Uct-town because I'm not seeing it.

Maybe you're scum actually too.

Again, do you have

any

scumreads that aren't grounded in OMGUS or opportunistic bandwagons?

[Shinobi]

I have questions I'll ask in the morning. Two AM does not bode well for my mafia brain.

[Shinobi]

@uctriton
Mala isn't scum. And heph never voted you.

@Shinobi
Posting things like that is not going to make people not listen to me, I'm afraid.

I'm shaking in my boots.

Quivering, even.

[Shinobi]

Oh god I can picture it.

Shinobi is probably going to get to dodge answering my question tomorrow morning, he'll say "nah I don't have to explain how I got a town read in you in post 847, it doesn't matter, I got enough people who think you're scummy that we can just lunch you"

Tbh I'd love to do this, but I have to play the game and stuff now.

It's such garbage but it has to be done.

[Shinobi]

Josh, you said somewhere that BBT and Shinobi pushing similar cases on different people likely makes them scum? Can you explain this again?

He actually said that me scumreading him and dave didn't make sense and then changed it to what you're saying later on.

[Shinobi]

Caught up?

Why is Shinobi null and not scum? Like your reads otherwise

Shinobi is more of a lean-Scum than full Scum for me. Mainly it's the contrast between his case against Josh and Toffee's on dave; "why did Josh get off the wagon?" is a much better question than "why didn't dave try to start a new wagon?"
A few of his later D1 posts also give me some pause.
Then there's that I'm not so certain that 2 Scum would make such a similar argument, and I'm more inclined to think Toffee is Scum than Shinobi (though associatives before flips are not particularly valid).

I keep forgetting this, but Toffee didn't ask me about 1277. I don't know why it bothers me so much but it really does.

So...What constitutes the scum-lean?

Aside from you taking advantage of the back-and-forth between triton and me.

[Shinobi]

Rofl, I think so.

I really don't think it's a bad thing to find town.

This post, 847, is where you came to a realization I am town

How did you get there

Long story short is that I realized that my case was bad and we started engaging each other on a point-by-point basis, which usually indicates a TvT fight. I really don't like the way you think about things but it always seems to come from the same place so...I guess that makes sense. Sort of.

@Mala: I don't care for lynching triton much at the moment. What are your opinions on the Wisdom/Josh fight?

[Shinobi]

Of course you can't justify it. Because you're not me. I don't have to justify not questioning my townreads because that's fucking stupid. You're dictating that me dropping a scumread and not being suspicious of him all the time is suspicious behavior because...Unicorns.

Stop being bad and get back on Josh.

[Shinobi]

It blows my mind that you're attacking me for supporting a wagon on a player who provably made up reasons to townread someone.

I don't even.

[Shinobi]

Yeah, I'm not you, but it still does not make sense from a town perspective. You dropped the scumread too easily, and notably you did it when someone mentioned that the 1v1 might be town vs town. And since then you haven't cared about rereading uctriton despite him not being what you'd call the towniest player in the game.

It makes total sense that you did that to appease uctriton. "Come on dude, let's stop fighting, I think you're town now, so please think I'm town too"

And yeah, I'm not attacking you for supporting a wagon on josh, so that made no sense.

You're doing exactly that: you attacked me for "burying Josh" when he already proved that he was making up reasons to read people.

Also, I can kill dave for that last post. I called Mala town several times and I called BBT town several times. He's ignoring parts of my ISO to push me and it stinks.

[Shinobi]

Shinobi is town

Why?

Gut, meta, super gut feeling.

This isn't going to convince anyone, unfortunately. You need more than this.

Though it's flattering that you're not jumping on me when it's the flavor of the month.

[Shinobi]

Kind of busy atm, will post more when I have time.

@Mala: I still need your opinions on the Wisdom/Josh fight.

[Shinobi]

I doubt that Toffee is scum. I doubt it plenty.

Those two quotes are taken out of context. The first was made during a time when he was frustrated with his pushes going nowhere. The second was an actual set of reads. The difference between the two is staggering and it blows my mind that you're not seeing it. I honestly can't tell if it's intentional or not.

I'm probably going to have to bust out a meta read on him at some point so you jubjubs stop trying to lynch him.

@Dave: I think it's awesome that you try to attack me when I go afk. Here's my answer to your quotes bullshit: you already quoted it. I said BBT vs Mala was a TvT fight, and I have seen nothing to change my opinion of either of those two players. Saying that I'm "soft-implying" or whatever it is you're talking about is ridiculous. I'm not implying anything. I'm calling them town. End of.

@Nero: What's wrong with defending a supposed "policy lynch/mislynch?" I fail to see what the issue is, can you elaborate?

[Shinobi]

Josh called me scum because of something a different player did in a different game, and then still got the contrasts between our cases wrong.

Why did we de-wagon him.

[Shinobi]

Wisdom, I have a question for you whenever you're around:

You said that my post on the fight between triton/me wasn't a normal townie thought process. Why did it change from a townie thing that you commented on when you were catching up? You commented on my #583 and it was pretty much the same reasoning in regards to two different players, but now it's fake. Why?

[Shinobi]

I was just going to comment on Mala not being here. Awesome.

Why is Wisdom/Josh TvT?

[Shinobi]

I don't see "better" about Josh's posts.

All I've seen is that he's changed how he interprets the cases BBT and I have both made based on whatever's going on, and he made up reasons to townread Peabody. Can you explain more pls?

[Shinobi]

@Shinobi, making a single reference to TvT and saying nothing more is not the same thing as a read. And that single reference does not make "multiple times".

@Mala, it's important for us to have a detailed explanation of your BBT and Shinobi reads, because they're coming up a solid scum read for multiple people. I in particular could use some input because I'm seeing multiple sets of people who could be town who are agreeing with each other or could be scum together.

Calling a fight between two players town vs town =/= calling them town?

Oh the jubbery.

[Shinobi]

We're probably just going to end up lynching somebody boring like Peabody or something.

And I still don't know what the case on him is.

[Shinobi]

Mala pay attention to things omfg.

[Shinobi]

Here are some big bold letters for you: I think BBT is town.

Now you have no excuse for it not being obvious and you have gained the ability to bother someone else.

Good day to you SIR.

[Shinobi]

Nha, I'm not offended at all. I'm just over-the-top and junk 'cause it's fun.

[Shinobi]

If you really want how I feel about BBT though, here's what I could say about him:

He tunnels as either alignment. The last time he tunneled as scum in a game I was in, he was only doing it to appease people in the sense that he was looking like he was doing stuff.

This game, he's actively directing town and trying to tell people who to be suspicious of. He's sitting in the spotlight and he's relishing that prospect. So he's town.

That better?

[Shinobi]

I could back it in quotes and stuff but I've been struck with the cba virus.

Curses.

[Shinobi]

Because you're Scum?

10/10

Would read again.

[Shinobi]

Would a mafia push a case as shit as the one Josh is pushing? I don't really know.

It's like he has the memory of a goldfish when it comes to his "he said he's town so he's town" read.

[Shinobi]

His case basically boiled down to "he is pushing a bad case so he's scum" and hasn't said why my case is bad, ever.

He called me scum because of something a different player did in a different game.

If I'm not understanding something, someone point it out to me, because I don't see it.

[Shinobi]

I remember when Wisdom had good posts.

Oh how time flies.

[Shinobi]

Yeah, fuck reasoning for lynching people.

Who needs that shit.

[Shinobi]

Rofl.

I really hope you're scum here. This kind of play is embarrassing.

[Shinobi]

(and by lovely i mean massively hypocritical)

I already gave my reasoning, so thanks for ignoring my posts again.

Not like you care though because scum.

[Shinobi]

I don't want Shinobi lynched. I will not switch to him.

this post gives me terrible vibes really

I was going to say the same.

[Shinobi]

And Wisdom has to be replaced as well.

I'm actually really unhappy about this.

[Shinobi]

Also I'm not paying attention to this game until tomorrow night.

[Shinobi]

And Wisdom has to be replaced as well.

I'm actually really unhappy about this.

Why?

He made the game more fun.

There are like 50 million things wrong with Josh's case but I can't debunk that shit on a phone.

[Shinobi]

I'm probably just going to end up on Peabody at the end of the day.

I just don't see any other alternatives that make much sense right now and I'm willing to trust that Mala is reading the current situation more accurately than I am.

[Shinobi]

What is with the groups of dinguses trying to kill me for next to nothing this game.

I don't get it.

@Mala: I stopped pretending I knew what was going on and I'm looking for someone to sheep. You look sheepable.

[Shinobi]

Eh I'm probably the last person you want to sheep atm.

I'm sure every single person in the game is willing to say this at this point.

[Shinobi]

Stop taking potshots at each other pls. This game is difficult enough as is.

[Shinobi]

Effort isn't alignment indicative.

[Shinobi]

And I don't want to start berating people for not trying hard enough anyway.

If he doesn't play, he's probably going to get lynched at some point for doing nothing. But that's besides the point right now because I don't see him as one of my prime lynch targets for today.

[Shinobi]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Peabody

This is probably going to happen. We're 4 days out so it's about time we coalesce and stop dicking around. Let's go.

[Shinobi]

Josh.

Stop calling me scum because of things other players did in different games.

[Shinobi]

And stop getting my posts wrong for the love of all things.

I can still lynch Josh, for the record.

[Shinobi]

You haven't given us a single reason as to why I'm scum.

So if you feel like doing that any time soon, that would be cool so I can go out and debunk it.

[Shinobi]

Your scum for the same reason that anyone is ever scum on this site-you got a red pm.

but more precise-I think posts like #70 often come from scum. Its not some cray-cray thought process to think MS was posting weird and attribute that to scum posting. So it looks to me like you knew he was town and thus are defending him and writing it off as a pl when that's not was happening.

Just like Dave was being kinda scummy and BBT was scum hunting him. You writing that off as "taking potshots" doesn't make sense.

Nor do I like your "there's no case on me!" despite me talking about you and two things but I'm also assuming that you've done a shitload of other scummy stuff

I don't like lynching people for bad reasons.

I didn't like the fact that Dave and BBT were being dickish to each other.

If you're assuming that I've done a shitload of scummy stuff, then I suggest you go back and read the thread to actually figure out what I've been doing.

This will be the end of me explaining my actions to you until then.