Micro 382 - CREDIMVS PAVONI DEORVM (Game Over!)

[Wolfy]

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee
always scum

[Wolfy]

Wolfy:

Just to be sure, can you confirm that explanation, please? It's reasonable that it's a running joke, but I don't feel like taking chances.

BBT's first newbie game (my second) I read him as solid town the whole game - he was scum.
He drew comments afterwards from the pros for exceptional 1st time scum play.
My RVS vote wasn't random - I picked him because I knew him - but it was meant as a joke.
I am taking his response in the same manner.
I am leaving my vote on him though because after last time he's going to have to work a

lot

harder to convince me he is town

[Wolfy]

Would like to see more from Wolfy and Vettrock given they know the game has started. Those two are lurking and I don't like it.

Heh! It's a holiday here. More important things to do - like drink beer and watch my team win tonight

[Wolfy]

I think what's happened so far is mostly crap.
There's only 3 of you contributing significantly and I haven't seen anything alignment indicative...
...except, maybe...

It wouldn't surprise me if BBT & Scripten were the scum team - distancing with aggressive push in the full knowledge that we're not going to lynch on the basis of this discussion!

@BBT

I honestly don't see how you get a scum read on him (there's not enough for a town read either)
The discussion will move on and other wagons will form.

Weekends not good for me (especially holiday ones) - I suspect that's the same for others.

I can't judge on 3 players out of 9 talking - the odds favour at least one scum inactive.

[Wolfy]

Wolfy:

Do you think it's more or less likely that the scumteam is currently inactive?

given that only 3 out of 9 players have more posts than the mod, and that scum gain more from not posting than town, I think it's highly likely that at least one scum is inactive and quite likely that both are inactive.
on the other hand maybe one scum wants to be hyperactive for town cred (looks at BBT )

I think it's likely that BBT is actually scum hunting but subconsciously thinking he only has a choice of you and Tiershift to choose from - because you are the only ones posting.

None of this is bad - RVS wagons and RVS discussions are always useful later.
We just need a lot more people interacting before we even think about a real lynch.

[Wolfy]

still crap. personal but not alignment indicative.

[Wolfy]

VOTE: Josh_B
I can go with this. Looking pretty scummy.

[Wolfy]

So, in summary:

Josh_B and Scripten

• two solid townies stuck in a conf bias loop that they won't get out of all game (or the best scum team ever)

BBT

• active scum hunting townie - just like the last game I played with him (when he was
  scum
  !)

Tiershift

• active scum hunting townie - stirrer/catalyst.

Clusk/Mr_Ree/Shaded/Vettrock/Me - all null - not enough content posting.
Still, it has been very entertaining so far.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Mr_Ree
something not quite right about the response to the RVS votes - looks like trying to hide in the pack since then...

[Wolfy]

Hmm.

When did your read change on Josh? Why did you think he was scummy when you voted for him? What in particular changed your read from scummy to townie?

It's quite the jump from voting him for 'looking scummy' to a 'solid townie'.

VOTE: Wolfy

Who said I read Josh as scummy? Votes are for other reasons besides believing somebody is scum.

The interaction between Scripten and Josh is typical townie bickering.

Your interpretation of my vote change as scummy is scummy though.

OMGUS!

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

Are you thinking what I'm thinking that I think that you're thinking I'm thinking because if you think that I think what I think I'm thinking then we've got a problem?

[Wolfy]

VOTE: Josh_B
I can go with this. Looking pretty scummy.

This says you were reading Josh as scummy.

Nah. It says I was reading him as pretty!

I wasn't. It was a vote to get a reaction. What I got was next to nothing. He just carried on bickering with Scripten. That tells me town.

[Wolfy]

But you chose to ignore this for some reason. Why is that?
I didn't ignore it - I

liked

it

Your logic and thoughts are not consistent so far. You were very fence-sitty at the beginning as well. I think that was an opportunistic vote that you realized you couldn't explain without it looking like you were sheeping so you retracted it.

Yup - blatant sheep. I didn't need any further explanation. It was a blatant sheep.

Then you immediately OMGUS me. Why do you think I'm scum exactly?

I'm almost certain you're scum here.

So me and Scripten a scum team?
No - I see from a later post that you think Scripten might be town now.

Your "almost certain" = "worth fuck all" because you can't possibly accurately scum read from what somebody says this early in a game.
Post 27 about Scripten - "I'm so sure you're gonna flip scum."

Explain the difference between "so sure" that Scripten is going to flip scum with "almost certain" that I am scum.

Here is my explanation: BBT has insufficient information and is talking crap.

Stop using hyperbole.
Having slight scum reads at this stage is fine - being "sure" or "almost certain" is absolute crap.

[Wolfy]

Josh IGMEOY

VOTE: wolfy

Bbt you made a good post for once, good job.

It was a crap post - stop stirring

[Wolfy]

Scripten, Wolfy is the lynch today.

Jump on the wagon.

This is exactly what he did when I last played with him - confirmed scum

[Wolfy]

FoS: Wolfy

- What in the world are you doing? How did you expect to get a reaction without engaging Josh_B at all? Why are you blatantly contradicting yourself, and why are you backing down at the first sign of suspicion? And what the hell is an OMGUS doing here? Aye-yi-yi...

I voted him.
He responded in a way that a townie would respond to a vote at that point.
He didn't respond to me in the same way that he was responding to you.

Your jump on wagon is just way wrong.

FoS: Scripten

It wouldn't surprise me if BBT & Scripten were the scum team - distancing with aggressive push in the full knowledge that we're not going to lynch on the basis of this discussion!

You heard it here first.

[Wolfy]

So me and Scripten a scum team?
No - I see from a later post that you think Scripten might be town now.

Your "almost certain" = "worth fuck all" because you can't possibly accurately scum read from what somebody says this early in a game.
Post 27 about Scripten - "I'm so sure you're gonna flip scum."

Explain the difference between "so sure" that Scripten is going to flip scum with "almost certain" that I am scum.

Here is my explanation: BBT has insufficient information and is talking crap.

Stop using hyperbole.
Having slight scum reads at this stage is fine - being "sure" or "almost certain" is absolute crap.

That's a lot of fluff.

Nice post.

Answer the question.
Question dodging = scum

[Wolfy]

Having slight scum reads at this stage is fine -

being "sure" or "almost certain" is absolute crap

.

Scripten, Wolfy is the lynch today.
Jump on the wagon.

This is exactly what he did when I last played with him -

confirmed scum

Hi Wolfy.

You're looking pretty desperate right now.

Hi BBT,
you're looking exactly the same scum now as you were in the previous game I played with you.

• You've already been certain of two scum.
  
• You're not answering questions, just accusing me of fluff and being desperate.
  
• When you wanted me to put the BBT/SCripten scumteam to the test you suggested I vote Scripten
  not yourself

townie says "vote me"

[Wolfy]

FoS: Wolfy

- What in the world are you doing? How did you expect to get a reaction without engaging Josh_B at all? Why are you blatantly contradicting yourself, and why are you backing down at the first sign of suspicion? And what the hell is an OMGUS doing here? Aye-yi-yi...

I voted him.
He responded in a way that a townie would respond to a vote at that point.
He didn't respond to me in the same way that he was responding to you.

Can you clear these up, please? I am not following what you mean at all. Yes, you voted him. He asked you a question and you ignored it. That's not a tell, neither scum nor town. What the hell, man? Also, FoS because I voted you? OMGUS-y crap. Let's not do that.

His question was the response to me that said town. He was responding to you in a totally different way.
FoS because you voted me - sure. sheeping BBT. What's wrong with OMGUS? You do. So I should be allowed to say it.

BBT:

I do not appreciate that I'm suddenly "potential town" because I agree with you. What's with that? That's not a town-sided attitude to have. That's self-serving meta BS. Considering your strong feelings on the matter, isn't that something you should be avoiding?

Now this is better - maybe you don't don't S that much after all.

PPE: Post 162 does make sense. However, your answers have not satisfied me, Wolfy.

It's only my wife that I satisfy these days.

When I'm feeling down, I like to whistle. It makes the neighbor's dog run to the end of his chain and choke himself.

[Wolfy]

BBT:

I do not appreciate that I'm suddenly "potential town" because I agree with you. What's with that? That's not a town-sided attitude to have. That's self-serving meta BS. Considering your strong feelings on the matter, isn't that something you should be avoiding?

PPE: Post 162 does make sense. However, your answers have not satisfied me, Wolfy.

I wouldn't expect you to bus your partner right now. When you made your first post restating your case on Josh it looked like you were trying to keep a counter-wagon going to oppose the Wolfy one I was starting.

However, you changed that and voted for him. Therefore, right now, you're probably town and Wolfy is scum.

Wolfy's reaction should make it clear to everyone he is scum.

Self-serving meta BS? I'm not sure what you mean here.

So if I change and vote for someone else will I become town too?
hyperbole.
crap.

Have a scum read on me by all means - you're going to look (you already look) pretty stupid with your

categoric

statements first that Scripten was scum and now that I am scum.

[Wolfy]

Self-serving meta BS? I'm not sure what you mean here.

He means you're now using as argument what you stated before you didn't approve of =

scum

.
WIFOM would have been a better choice.

A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking.

[Wolfy]

It's because you're pushing every single read you get like there's no tomorrow. It is scummy to me, but I'm reading town from you for everything else. So the only other motivation I can see is that you're trying to manipulate your meta. Either way, it's putting the town at risk.

That's what I've been trying to say.
His problem is it's like the boy who cried wolf - when he does get a strong scum read in a month's time he's already used the words "certain" and "so sure".

And he's still not answering my question = scum

[Wolfy]

And he's still not answering my question = scum

Wait a second. I just went to your iso and looked. Which question are you looking to have answered, specifically?

so I forgot the ?
It's still a question, he knew it, he's avoiding it.

Your "almost certain" = "worth fuck all" because you can't possibly accurately scum read from what somebody says this early in a game.
Post 27 about Scripten - "I'm so sure you're gonna flip scum."

Explain the difference between "so sure" that Scripten is going to flip scum with "almost certain" that I am scum.

[Wolfy]

Why do you have yourself at null? That seems strange to me. Shouldn't you see yourself as town, even if you don't feel you've posted enough?

What was your intent in voting me? What isn't right about my responses? It looks to me like a pressure vote with no pressure on a null read because there isn't enough content to put down a real vote. Except there is content. What am I not getting here, Wolfy?

I don't see myself as null - you should.
My intent in voting you was because I had a slight scum read on you.
I don't know what wasn't right about your responses - if I did I would have said.
I don't care how it looks.
You probably don't get a lot.

Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.

[Wolfy]

wow - intent to hammer with 9 days left.
scum driven wagon for sure.
I claim VT

good luck town

[Wolfy]

Wolfy is at L-1 folks. I'm claiming the hammer, I'm just not done with him yet.

what's your read on Asher, Vettrock and shaded?

Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?

[Wolfy]

VOTE: Wolfy
Can't trust a wolf.

Yo what the fuck is this?

Wolfy I want an answer to my 181.

I thought I'd answered.
The vote for Josh was a reaction test.
The reaction was OK for me - so I unvoted.

BBT is being so scummy - I can't believe scum would be that scummy! But that's WIFOM.

@BBT Where do you go next with your

certain

reads when I flip town?
Why shouldn't the town go for you on Day 2 when you've pushed so hard for a quicklynch of a townie.

VOTE: Asher Kendrell
OMGUS! Really. That is such a bad entry.

[Wolfy]

Did you stop to think

why

I did that? I'd suggest watching the insults. I'm probably the most impartial player in this game and currently the only one keeping you alive.

• because you're scum or not very clever town?
  
• town wouldn't want to quicklynch another townie.
  
• You've had my claim.
  
• You've had my reads.
  
• Just do it.
  
• Learn from it.
  
• Next time use the 14 real time days.
  
• Scum like short days - they kill at night.
  
• town like long days - they learn stuff during the day.
  
• At least 3 people haven't said enough yet to have provided any information.

You want another insult? If you're town you're dumb for a quickhammer when there's 9 days left to learn stuff and three people who haven't contributed.

Whatever you do, don't congratulate yourself too much. You're not that good.

[Wolfy]

You know there are only two scum in this game, right Wolfy? The only person who has avoided your wrath is Tier.

an you're already

certain

you've found them!

You're still not answering questions...
What next when I flip town?

[Wolfy]

Wolfy, you're acting like you've already been lynched. Keep a cool head and try to help us if you're town. The more you get angry, deflect, or otherwise avoid giving the town clear information, the scummier you look and the more likely it is that a townie will end up hammering you. It's also possible that both goons are already on the wagon, but I doubt it.

Nobody should withdraw their vote after a VT claim if they genuinely believe I'm scum - so I am effectively lynched.
I'm not angry - I'm amused. There are several so-called experienced players playing like newbies.
I've played enough games on this site to have been lynched several times - it doesn't bother me if town wins.
The only difference this time is that I suspect the way people are playing that town won't win.

How can anybody justify quicklynching when three people haven't contributed?
Will you do the same again tomorrow?

[Wolfy]

You're not flipping town. On the off-chance that you do, you should work on your town play. It's pretty bad.

How did I know that would happen...

Guess what, me flipping town actually means

You are crap at this game.

To be as categoric as you are - it is

impossible

for

anybody

to accurately read my alignment from the words I have

chosen

to use

The biggest problem you have is that you don't recognise your own limitations.

Why do people who know the least know it the loudest?

[Wolfy]

PEdit - Wolfy, stop insulting me. I don't know why you're making this personal.

It's not personal:
it's your reads that are bad - not you (probably)
it's your logic that is faulty - not you (probably)

[Wolfy]

Lol. You're the one getting lynched. Now go player by player and give me your reads and the reasons for your reads or I'm going to hammer you. Bitch.

My win condition doesn't require me to stay alive.
I should die today for the following reasons:

• I will remain a distraction to town while alive because of the several people stuck in conf bias. If I survived til tomorrow BBT plus others would waste another day focusing on me instead of hunting scum
  
• Analysis of my wagon will give town something
  
• I am not enjoying playing this particular game with this particular group of people so I'd rather get out now.

i still think you should get the lurkers talking and make the most of the day before you hammer - but hey, do what you want.

I gave you reads yesterday - they haven't changed (apart from Asher's scummy entry).
Are you all having problems with reading as well as thinking?

You're all just jealous because the voices only talk to me.

[Wolfy]

How about a concise reads-list right here on every player. An example format could be;

*Name - Alignment*

how about you answer the questions I've asked you this game that you've dodged?

Here's another one:
Why did I claim VT?

[Wolfy]

So, in summary:

Josh_B and Scripten

• two solid townies stuck in a conf bias loop that they won't get out of all game (or the best scum team ever)

BBT

• active scum hunting townie - just like the last game I played with him (when he was
  scum
  !)

Tiershift

• active scum hunting townie - stirrer/catalyst.

Clusk/Mr_Ree/Shaded/Vettrock/Me - all null - not enough content posting.
Still, it has been very entertaining so far.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Mr_Ree
something not quite right about the response to the RVS votes - looks like trying to hide in the pack since then...

since you're all too lazy to read back.
The only change is Asher's scummy entry as I said in 228

BTW If I were scum I would have claimed Cop - 50/50 is better odds than 100%.
If there wasn't a CC you might not have lynched me - if there was a CC I'd have outed the cop.

I'm V/LA now for 4 days so that's all you get.
Good luck town.
I wonder who BBT will be certain of tomorrow...

[Wolfy]

The only read that is in danger of changing is my town read of you.
Why do you still not want as much information from the lurkers as possible?
Why don't you get it that town wins by gathering information in the day and scum win by keeping days short to minimise the information.

Don't do the nail and coffin bit with me - I have already said it is in town's best interest for me to be lynched today.
1. it will help them see that you're not as smart as you think you are
2. it

might

(I doubt it but it might) make you a bit more humble going forward.

Be aware that if you do find scum they will fake claim because there is no downside to doing so.

[Wolfy]

Thanks for modding Bulge.
Apologies if my day 1 playstyle offended anybody - was trying something different (called how to get quicklynched as town!)
Particularly no offence meant to you BBT - but I did (and still do) think you pushed way too hard with too little information on bith days.
Very well played Tier especially - I suspect you may have had to work harder without BBT pushing the mislynches so hard.
Good job from Asher as first time scum - suspected but never near getting lynched.
Hopefully play with you all again sometime.

[Wolfy]

Okay, BBT, I suck at giving positive feedback, jsyk. Here we go:

1. You're not a scumhunting god.

Your reads are not the be-all, end-all. Your reads weren't accurate and with you jumping so fast from one read to another, it is annoying to read how 'sure' you are in your reads. You should push your reads like a normal person; you should know your reads change a lot and your posting style should reflect that.

Look at other players' reads. Try to adgust yours based on them.

2.

Listen to everyone.

Yes, even to your scumread josh or the lurker vettrock. Everyone.

Readjust opnions based on what they say.

You can weigh the stuff your townreads say heavier, but be sure that they're not just manipulating you into scumreading others.

3. If everyone agrees with you, something is wrong.

This is true in almost all cases. Unless the scumteam is reeeaally weak and obvious,

keep in mind that scum would like town to push their wagons for them.

4. Let the game flow.

No need in pushing every wagon super hard by yourself,

look at reactions provoked by wagons and talk to other people about wagons

, instead of tunnelling.

See, all negative

Hope this helps!

You do yourself a disservice Tier - loads of positives.

Do me, do me! I'm much harder to be positive about.

[Wolfy]

...The problem for me is I have a hard time getting much out of the back and forth which pretty much seems like guessing to me.

That's my problem too - and why I tried something different this game.
Didn't work - still seemed like guessing.