Mini 444 - Reverse Mafia Vanilla (Stopped)

[logicticus]

I would like to stay away from all the voting for yourselves if possible because everyone is just going to do that. And since its just townies and scum, there is no reason to promote one person over another from a power role perspective.

And I believe thats part of what happened in the other game (unfortunately a big part of it seems to have been deleted so the end is hard to follow).

[logicticus]

Nobody else random voted anyone. There was a random karma, but not a vote.

I was the one against voting yourself and I am just against random voting (although I am against that in all games.)

I just think its more convincing for a player to make a case for someone other than themselves because that just looks selfish and stupid.

[logicticus]

Based just on experence and on who would be more likely to make good decisions when town, loudmouth lee's probably a decent choice for revival, although I can't say I've really got much of a read on his alignment yet.

I absolutely agree with this statement.

But I too cant get any read on him so far and if he turns out to be scum, it will be a quick game over.

[logicticus]

I agree completely with Yellowbounder. I don't like how they have team up together, not just in attacking my posts, but in calling themselves the best option to vote. I do feel loudmouth a better option that Yos anyway.

You aren't the sparkling measure of Pro-Townness, are you?

Everyone, please make on a mental note of Relph's response here.

He does have a point, though. reviving people who seem linked is a good way to accidentally lose this game in the first few days.

I want to know how Yos and I are linked besides having good logic...

I think the reason he (and others) might believe you are linked is because you have both voiced support for each other while maintaining they would rather see themselves revived.

There are no other pairs of players in this game voicing support for each other. Although many people are supporting Yos.

I dont think thats scummy, but I can see how others could.

[logicticus]

I dont think self hammering is a protown thing to do, unless there has been some discussion once the -1 vote has been placed down.

I agree that talking about who is best not to bring back would be the most beneficial right now. Unfortunatley, we all may have to live with rezzing someone (espcially the first time) that we dont hate to see up there rather than someone we love to see up there simply because getting a majority of people to love seeing someone rezzed will be difficult.

[logicticus]

The WIFOM potential in this game is immense, as, and this is a ludicrus situation, a scum could claim scum when he is alive, and we can't do anything about it.

And do we listen to his votes (which could be for a scumbuddy), or do we vote someone else (his vote could be for a protown person who he doesn't want revived).

Obviously this is a

very

hypothetical situation, but the elements of do you trust a scummy player's voting or not may come up, especially due to the permamency of reviving.

While I agree that this could be a potential problem, Im of the opinion to cross that bridge when we get to it.

[logicticus]

Well at this point theres not much to go on, so I have decided to take a deeper look at one topic thats been discussed more than others....the link between yos2 and lml.

Yellow, you have already advocated that someone self voting (or self hammering is scummy) which, logically, I posted. You ignored it completely. Let it be known, I am NOT cool with Yos. Actually, he scares me as one of the best players I have played with. He trusts me even less than I trust him (look back to Normal: Himilayan Mafia) However, when we both seem to LOGICALLY agree on certain actions, it's telling.

This is the first time that LML mentions why he trusts yos (although very warily) at this point. Because they both are logically agreeing on certain actions.

I want to know how Yos and I are linked besides having good logic...

second time LML mentions that good logic is linking them

Could you point me at the specific things you agree with? Because from what I'm reading from him, his statements are mostly basic knowledge of the Reverse setup and how it is played.

After LML states that by logic he means thinking along the same lines, Zindy chimes in with a fantastic question/point.

Well, the part in particular when Yos and I nearly doubleposted was in regards to Relph's post.

The response and for reference the relevent Relph post:

Everybody it's against random voting. But I haven't seen a single argument against it. The closest to that is loudmouth's argument, but I believe that's an argument against not voting for yourself.

I agree with that. If you are town, it's a good thing that you get in your own bandwagon. But the thing is that whatever alignment you are, you are going to vote for yourself and that give us no information.

Also, there's a good point that I think everybody has bypassed. There are several posts stating that this is a no information game. There are 4 people with information in this game, and we have to try to read that information out of them.

So, like someone stated before, I think random voting will same the same purpose that it does in a normal game. It gives us information. I never stated that we should random-revive someone. If you read my first post (25) I clearly said that we should not hurry up to revive someone because we need all the info that we can get.

In my opinion there are quite a few things wrong with this post. Yos2 and LML happen to have the next two posts, the simul-posts that LML referred to in which they point out whats wrong. I think it was clear to a lot of people what was wrong with it, but after the two posts pointing that out they didnt feel the need to chime in agreeing. This is because on this site when you do things like that people will accuse you of just followig in others footsteps or agreeing and trying to lie low.

So the argument put forth by LML:

I am comfortable with myself or yos2 being revived because
We both are thinking with good logic because
We are both thinking along the same lines because
We simulposted criticizing the bad post from Relph

It seems that the entire foundation is being laid on this post which was obviously anti town.

Well, the part in particular when Yos and I nearly doubleposted was in regards to Relph's post./

As said, that's a fairly obvious response, in my ever-so-humble opinion.

I like Zindys thinking again

good karma Zindaras

Then finally, LML puts his vote on Yos2 because the game is slow (true).

So I guess what I have come up with from all of this is that I dont like the foundation that LML is linking himself to Yos2 and I like Zindys thinking.

[logicticus]

Mod, can we get some serious prods

Overtheunder hasnt posted yet, probably needs to be replaced

Zindaras and relph havent posted for 2 weeks

MM hasnt posted for 1 week.

Thanks

[logicticus]

i apologize for my lack of posting

i left town on the 9th and thought i would have more access than i have had.

hopefully tomorrow or the day after i can make something meaningful

[logicticus]

If I had to rank the 6 that are being discussed (not including myself, of course). It would look like this:

1) Zindaras - I like the way he challenged LML early on regarding the assumption that Yos and him were making good logical sense. This lead me to my pbp anaylists earlier on.

2) VRK - Although there are at least 3 mentions of RL kicking his ass (which I can view as making excuses for not posting which tends to be a scum thing to do), his tone of posts and the information he is conveying are town like. While a lot of rereading this game has been reading the same concept written by 4 different people, few of his posts were like that and I like original thought.

3) Yos2 - Kind of the info guy of the game. From the first reverse mafia, he gained some experience and has been relaying that on to us. Defending random voting as not completely worthless when many people were railing against it. Taking unpopular stands and the logically backing it up always looks good to me.

4) LML - First post discussed developing a solid game plan that we follow, which we never did (I would like to open this up to a little more discussion. VRK later stated it was a bad idea because the scum could poke holes in it and exploite it, but developing a game plan and talking strategy are not the same). Accuses YB and Relph of being scum and not a fan of MM. Of all the players, has taken stances against the most. Very quiet lately which seems unlike him. I already discussed why I thought his linakage between him and yos2 were bogus.

5) YB - Not much content in posts. When I went through and made notes, I noticed there just wasnt much there. The one thing he did mention was a sort of kingmaker style where the person with the most karma puts someone up for nomination and I guess we all vote. I am totally against this empowerment. While I understand the frustration that we all feel because the pace of this game is slow, it is always in the towns favor to discuss more and not be rash. This is even more true in this game.

vote zindaras

[logicticus]

Once again, I am against anything that will rush this game.

While I agree this game has been tedious at times, if it stays at the pace it is, it wont be bad. Rushing revives only helps scum.

So I dont like the pick three and do it idea.

Its not quite badkarma, but its close for YB.

[logicticus]

well i dont like the love between yos and zind.

and i was never a big fan of yos' revival.

but i have liked zind for a while, so I have no qualms.

vote zindaras

hopefully this game can move faster than a snails pace.