Mini 444 - Reverse Mafia Vanilla (Stopped)


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Post Post #5 (isolation #0) » Mon May 14, 2007 6:18 am

Post by LoudmouthLee »

First post, and no random votes from me...

The idea of random votes to stimulate discussion is somewhat contrived here, as we're voting for a "good" result (back to live) comparitavely to a "bad" result (lynching). So, instead, this turns into an incredible exercise of Metagaming. Does anyone have any ideas on how we can determine who's scum and who's town? Here are some of my thoughts on ways we can do this:

(a) Voting Patterns. In this game, we cannot bandwagon for information (since votes are good). I would like to propose the following a "FoS" count to be instituted by the town. If we find someone suspicious (that would generally consitiute a vote), you FoS them. When you no longer find them suspicious, you unFoS them.
Mod
, don't want to give you more work, but could you keep count of that for us as well if the town so chooses? Otherwise, we can keep track of it as a town. Keeping a running tally of all of this information is very important.

(b) Reminder of limited information: This is a limited reveal game, as when we normally lynch someone, their allignment is known by the town right away. Since we're promoting people to the real world again, we need to remember that even when we "promote" someone, we do NOT find out their allignment right away.

(c) Developing a solid game plan: The key to a town victory here is to create a game plan and adjust only when necessary.

This is going to be a very difficult game for the town especially, mainly because we have such limited information. Does anyone have any ideas on how to go about this?
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Post Post #12 (isolation #1) » Mon May 14, 2007 11:43 am

Post by LoudmouthLee »

[quote="Machiavellian-Mafia"]Looks to me like we can still play mafia like normal, except instead of voting for the suspicious people to lynch, we avoid voting for them to prevent their revival and vote for more protown people, essentially just like the "reverse" theme of the game.

And I like this good/bad karma idea from our mod.
Good Karma
: KaleiÐoscøpe for having unusual characters in his name.[/quote]

Random Good Karma? That makes no sense.

Bad Karma: MM
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Post Post #23 (isolation #2) » Tue May 15, 2007 2:02 am

Post by LoudmouthLee »

yellowbounder wrote:
johhan wrote:
DeanWinchester wrote:Saying this game is going to be hard is an understatment

The problem is that its hard to find a starting point in this game. And it is really hard to decide what constitutes as town play. It seems that with everyone being vanilla the town has to, for the most part, blindly decide who to ressurect. There isin't any easy way to PROVE who is town.
basically, yes.
I would disagree in some respects, since it is mafia played backwards. In an average mafia game, you would call some players pro-town, and trust their judgement, since they make good logical arguments that benefit the town, and you would vote for people who you feel are scummy.

This is the other way around, so protown players get votes, and scummy players get nothing except bad karma. The bandwagon, works as well, but in a different way. Don't forget that this Day 0.25, is almost a Day 1, so anyone speed reviving, is probably attempting to get their scumbuddies on the living block. Bandwagons work through the person's reaction, but more importantly, through other people's reactions, and when they jump on, or not.
logicticus wrote:I would like to stay away from all the voting for yourselves if possible because everyone is just going to do that. And since its just townies and scum, there is no reason to promote one person over another from a power role perspective.
Quite true, since if everyone self voted, it would be counter productive.
So why not
Vote: logicticus
?

Although that makes me wonder about whether selfvoting, or even self hammering is a protown thing to do. I doubt CD's usual rule of "Self vote = instant hamma" since that would be counterproductive. :D
Bad Karma: Yellowbounder


So.. you're telling me that it's prudent for a pro-town player to
NOT
vote themselves, changing the ratio of pro-town players and anti-town players? PISH POSH!

Yellowbounder, for argument sake, in a 12 person game, we have 3 scum and 9 townies.

If we go by your infinite wisdom, and a pro-town player isn't allowed to vote themselves, you changed the game from 11 townies and 3 scum. Which allows the mafia to enjoy a better chance of NOT reviving a townie. Since, with 12 in the game, it takes 7 to revive, your method will just rely on the mafia WAITING (since it would basically take ALL of the pro-town players to agree) in order to promote someone. PISH POSH.

Still, it takes 7/9 Protown players right now to promote a pro-town (if the mafia stay off the wagon), so, Yellow, why change it to 7/8? It makes no sense.

I think Yellowbounder is scum.
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Post Post #26 (isolation #3) » Tue May 15, 2007 7:42 am

Post by LoudmouthLee »

[quote="Relph"]I think that here random votes are a little bit more helpful, as if we vote randomly, there's a 9/12 chance of voting for town against a 3/12 mafia. But, we have to be careful, as speeding the vote won't help the people that will get revive since they won't have that much info to go on later.
With that in mind,
Vote: KaleiÐoscøpe
[/quote]

Random vote? Why are you voting for KaleiDoscopes revival? You gave no reasons. Are you "random reviving voting?"
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Post Post #27 (isolation #4) » Tue May 15, 2007 7:44 am

Post by LoudmouthLee »

[quote="Relph"]I think that here random votes are a little bit more helpful, as if we vote randomly, there's a 9/12 chance of voting for town against a 3/12 mafia. But, we have to be careful, as speeding the vote won't help the people that will get revive since they won't have that much info to go on later.
With that in mind,
Vote: KaleiÐoscøpe
[/quote]

I totally misread this, and now, I think I like it even less. Please disregard the last post I made, as it is redundant.

Why would you VOTE someone that you don't know is scum or not, instead, vote with 100% certainty that you are town?

Bad Karma: Relph
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Post Post #35 (isolation #5) » Tue May 15, 2007 12:37 pm

Post by LoudmouthLee »

Yosarian2 wrote:
Relph wrote: There are 4 people with information in this game, and we have to try to read that information out of them
Wait...what???

Did the mod say somewhere that there are 4 maifa members? Because if not

A. Did you just say there are 4 mafia members?

B. that seems like kind of an absurd number for a vanillia game this size where the town has this many disadvantages; I was thinking probably 2 mafia members

B. how do you know how many mafia members there are???
QFT.

Now, with that...

I am currently only happy with 2 people for promotion to the real world. That's currently Myself and Yosarian. I will vote for either, as of right now.

[b[Good Karma: Yos[/b]
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Post Post #42 (isolation #6) » Wed May 16, 2007 1:54 am

Post by LoudmouthLee »

[quote]
Karma Count:
KaleiÐoscøpe ~ 1
Yosarian2 ~ 1
johhan ~ 0
Zindaras ~ 0
Vel-Rahn Koon ~ 0
LoudmouthLee ~ 0
logicticus ~ 0
DeanWinchester ~ 0
OverTheUnder ~ 0
yellowbounder ~ -1
Machiavellian-Mafia -1
Relph ~ -3
[/quote]

Keep in mind that someone gave out "Random good Karma" to Kaleidoscope.
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Post Post #43 (isolation #7) » Wed May 16, 2007 2:00 am

Post by LoudmouthLee »

LML wrote: Bad Karma: Yellowbounder

So.. you're telling me that it's prudent for a pro-town player to NOT vote themselves, changing the ratio of pro-town players and anti-town players? PISH POSH!

Yellowbounder, for argument sake, in a 12 person game, we have 3 scum and 9 townies.

If we go by your infinite wisdom, and a pro-town player isn't allowed to vote themselves, you changed the game from 11 townies and 3 scum. Which allows the mafia to enjoy a better chance of NOT reviving a townie. Since, with 12 in the game, it takes 7 to revive, your method will just rely on the mafia WAITING (since it would basically take ALL of the pro-town players to agree) in order to promote someone. PISH POSH.

Still, it takes 7/9 Protown players right now to promote a pro-town (if the mafia stay off the wagon), so, Yellow, why change it to 7/8? It makes no sense.

I think Yellowbounder is scum.

Whoa. My comment was "for argument sake" as to prove why Yellowbounder's response was absolutely untrustworthy. Your comment was:
Relph wrote: Also, there's a good point that I think everybody has bypassed. There are several posts stating that this is a no information game. There are 4 people with information in this game, and we have to try to read that information out of them.
Totally different situation.

Now. I will
Vote: LoudmouthLee
and
FoR: Yos
(Finger of Revival)

If you guys, for some reason, dislike me as a revival candidate, I will be happy to switch my vote to Yos.
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Post Post #45 (isolation #8) » Wed May 16, 2007 5:38 am

Post by LoudmouthLee »

I am using it as "Suspicion" counters, Kaleidoscope. It makes sense for me, as when i sort by my own posts, I can see each of my suspicions as they came up.
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Post Post #56 (isolation #9) » Thu May 17, 2007 4:37 am

Post by LoudmouthLee »

yellowbounder wrote:
DeanWinchester wrote:So do you not want to revive either of them or do you have an issue with me thinking we should only revive one of the two of them?

I think they are both good players and seem to be town, but them being cool with either one of them being revived has me weary of reviving both of them.
How about we don't revive them if they give out scum tells, and revive them if they try to help the town, instead of arbitrailily reviving one of them because "we need an experienced player"?
Yellow, you have already advocated that someone self voting (or self hammering is scummy) which, logically, I posted. You ignored it completely. Let it be known, I am NOT cool with Yos. Actually, he scares me as one of the best players I have played with. He trusts me even less than I trust him (look back to Normal: Himilayan Mafia) However, when we both seem to LOGICALLY agree on certain actions, it's telling.

If you think we're both mafia, then we shouldn't promote either of us. If you think we're both town, you should promote BOTH of us. I'm town. I know that much. I don't know about Yos's allignment. I
THINK
he's town.
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Post Post #61 (isolation #10) » Thu May 17, 2007 4:36 pm

Post by LoudmouthLee »

Relph wrote:I agree completely with Yellowbounder. I don't like how they have team up together, not just in attacking my posts, but in calling themselves the best option to vote. I do feel loudmouth a better option that Yos anyway.
You aren't the sparkling measure of Pro-Townness, are you?

Everyone, please make on a mental note of Relph's response here.
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Post Post #63 (isolation #11) » Thu May 17, 2007 4:48 pm

Post by LoudmouthLee »

johhan wrote:
LoudmouthLee wrote:
Relph wrote:I agree completely with Yellowbounder. I don't like how they have team up together, not just in attacking my posts, but in calling themselves the best option to vote. I do feel loudmouth a better option that Yos anyway.
You aren't the sparkling measure of Pro-Townness, are you?

Everyone, please make on a mental note of Relph's response here.
He does have a point, though. reviving people who seem linked is a good way to accidentally lose this game in the first few days.
I want to know how Yos and I are linked besides having good logic...
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Post Post #66 (isolation #12) » Fri May 18, 2007 2:24 am

Post by LoudmouthLee »

Yos is giving good logical thought. I Like myself better as a revive candidate, but that's only because I know my own allignment.

On a different note, I will be away until Tuesday of next week (4 days). No replacement is necessary.
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Post Post #69 (isolation #13) » Fri May 18, 2007 8:08 am

Post by LoudmouthLee »

Zindaras wrote:
LoudmouthLee wrote:Yos is giving good logical thought. I Like myself better as a revive candidate, but that's only because I know my own allignment.
So what, because he's logical he's town? It's not that easy, my dear.
No. Trust me, sexyman. I know my logic.

If someone is thinking along the same lines as me, and I know I am town, it makes me feel "more comfortable" with them. I think that makes sense.
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Post Post #74 (isolation #14) » Mon May 21, 2007 4:42 am

Post by LoudmouthLee »

Well, the part in particular when Yos and I nearly doubleposted was in regards to Relph's post.

This game is moving entirely too slow. No one is posting. It's making me break out into hives.
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Post Post #80 (isolation #15) » Thu May 24, 2007 12:59 pm

Post by LoudmouthLee »

Mod seems to have disappeared. Alerting MeMe
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Post Post #82 (isolation #16) » Thu May 24, 2007 5:07 pm

Post by LoudmouthLee »

Yosarian2 wrote:Eh? He's posting elsewhere in the forum. I was assuming he just hadn't posted a new vote count because no one's voted since the last one...
Ah, he was replaced in a mini game.. I thought he bounced.
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Post Post #108 (isolation #17) » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:44 am

Post by LoudmouthLee »

I will be away from around 11pm EST Friday, June 1st until Monday, June 4th at around 7am EST for my
bachelor party
.


No comments about Belly Dancers, either.
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Post Post #122 (isolation #18) » Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:22 pm

Post by LoudmouthLee »

Unvote: LML

Vote: Yosarian2


This vote is levied in order to move the game forward.
Mod, this is becoming a rather tedious experience. Please replace all non-active players, lest the game gets stagnant.
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Post Post #125 (isolation #19) » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:20 am

Post by LoudmouthLee »

I have no discernable link to Yos besides the fact that I know I'm town and I believe that he is town also. I think you're either scummy (which I dont get the vibe of, as you seem to be doing some serious scum hunting), or you're just a wee bit paranoid.

With the blatant lack of information taht we have, coupled with the lack of posting that we have, we are NOT going to be getting any other information UNTIL we revive three players. In order for us to play this game and get information, we need to start reviving people. I put myself up for revival, as I know that I am town. I am feeling pretty good about Yos2, and surprisingly, pretty good about Logicitus.

I feel the three of us would make a good start for the revival train.
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Post Post #127 (isolation #20) » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:17 am

Post by LoudmouthLee »

There IS no good argument here. I'm curious about the following things about this game.

#1) it's vanilla. we can't have someone say, "Well, I'm a cop. We should promote me." instead, it's based on limited information.

#2) Generally, we (the town) gets information by voting to lynch (a negative result) not voting to revive (positive result). Since there are no reprocussions for the mafia (ie: death), this gives an inherent edge to the mafia.

#3) Since we cannot argue that anyone is WORTH reviving (ahem, how can someone prove their worth while we have NO information?), what do you suppose we do, Yellowbounder? I have already given you bad karma, and I think you're scum, but I want to know, all knowing yellowbounder.

What do you suppose we do now? Are we going to bandwagon to get information? Are we going to do a little mafia rain dance? Are we going to riverdance? Lord of the Dance? Mr. Flatley would be proud.

I, honestly, have no clue how we proceed from here.
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Post Post #129 (isolation #21) » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:28 am

Post by LoudmouthLee »

Right. But now, we're in DAY 1 (accroding to normal mafia standards), and we have much LESS information than we normally do. I understand that we need to crack some eggs before we get the mafia omelette, but in a proverbial sense..

What statement can one make that would get you to vote them? Hint: There isn't one. Nothing one person can say can make you feel one way or the other! I'm not looking to start an uprising, but the first three days (.25, .50, .75) is dumb and blind luck.

With no reveal and nothing else to help the town, this game is HEAVILY slanted torwards the mafia. I'm a logicial guy. I like it when things flow properly.

They aren't in this game, and they probably won't.

With that, I will be willing to vote for anyone I have NOT given bad karma to.
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Post Post #131 (isolation #22) » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:51 am

Post by LoudmouthLee »

yellowbounder wrote:You can give karma to someone more than once, just not in the same post. Although, I think it would function better if you could only give it once, and the value was either 1, 0 or -1.
:eyebrow:

I said I will ultimatley vote for anyone I did not give Bad Karma to. Was that not clear?
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