Mini 444 - Reverse Mafia Vanilla (Stopped)

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

I agree that this isn't going to be very easy for us, and the previous incarnation of this game is very little help as well. I'm glad that things have been simplified in that we only have vanilla town or scum, but we still have all the issues you mentioned LmL.

A)Are you seeing this as working as it did during the MafiaScum Marathon games on the anniversary? I'm willing to go that route as it will prevent us rezzing anyone before we've had a great deal of discussion.

B)Discussion is our friend more than anything in this game. Discussion on the first day (or first 0.25 day) is going to be more important than a normal mafia game.

C)I have some ideas here, but I think that spelling it out may give hints to the scum. Is this something we're willing to do? Do we want to discuss strategy to such a great detail that we give the scum a way to slip through and find holes in our arguments that they can exploit?

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Sorry folks, RL has been crap for the last few days.

I'm not happy reviving anyone at the moment. If this were a regular game, we wouldn't even considering lynching someone on page 3, and with the lack of information we're going to be getting from this game, I can't vote for anyone in good conscience at this point.

As Zindy pointed out, the only real reason for Yos's support at this time is that he's basically explained the game. Any one of us could do that, and I think that voting to revive someone based on that is just crazy. Sure he was pro-town in the first game like this, but that means exactly nothing in this game. Yos has a 25% chance to be scum in this game, just like everyone else (assuming an 8/4 setup).

Also, I could have sworn that I read somewhere that CDb posted that there was an 8/4 setup, but I'm not seeing it now.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Sorry folks again, things IRL haven't been working out for me lately.

As of now, I'm liking Yellowbounder's responses. Relph's random voting suggestion is not going to work at all, as has been pointed out. The information we get from random voting normally has little value, and is fine as a way to get things moving, but I think we're already past that point.

I'm also not that happy about everyone self-voting. It's not going to get us anywhere. If we're going to use self-voting as a type of "random voting" as we use random votes in normal mafia to get things started, I could see a use for it, because it would spark conversation. But, we seem to be moving out of the random stage of things at this point, so I think at this point self-voting would be useless.

For now,

Good Karma: Yellowbounder

.

No vote yet. I'll see how things develop.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

VRK's post does not sit well with me. He has said very little and shows up to through some good karma at yellowbounder. I don't like him being against self voting. If anything I can not think of any scenario, town/scum, that would not want to vote for themselve.

*shrug* I don't see the point in self-voting. What good is it going to do us, collectively, if we each vote for ourselves? The fact that you can't think of a scenario where no one would not want to vote for themselves is a good example of why we shouldn't do it.

It doesn't benefit us, the Town, in any way, shape, or form for people to self vote. There's no information we can get out of a self-vote. The scum will do it because that's a fast track to winning the game. The town will do it because they have to get revived in order to win the game.

There's nothing differentiating the

motives

of a town player from a scum player with a self-vote

- therefore, it's not helping us towards our ultimate goal, which is rezzing as many townies as possible and as few scum as possible.

Maybe we should start talking about who we don't want to vote for and why we don't want to vote for that person.

This I like. This will help us out, especially if we get the Why nailed down. Someone who just says "I don't want to vote for person X" and leaves it at that is not helping us out. The reasons are going to be important in this game, much more so than a normal game.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Sorry folks for the absence. RL is really hitting me hard, and I'm going to try to be here more often. I didn't think RL would affect the games I'm in like it has, but it did.

The main problem I'm seeing is lack of discussion. I don't think a random bandwagon is our best bet, because there's a 25-33% chance of rezzing a scum. Are we really in such a rut that random bandwagon voting is our best bet?

What does everyone feel about Yos as a potential candidate for revival? As of now, I don't get anything from him either way. If I had to say Town or Scum, I'd lean Town, but all he's done so far is gone over the finer points of the game. I can't say a Scum wouldn't do that to get on people's good sides, so in reality it's a non-tell.

Post 112 has some content other than game strategy, where he's talking about MM. I'm not quite sure how I feel about it. It has already been commented on that Yos and LML are looking like they're linked, and this seems to be an indirect defense of LML. Also, the comment that it is unlikely that there are 4 scum is off - you can go through the completed 12 player games in the Queue thread and easily find games with 3, 4, even 5 scum in just the first 2 pages. I agree with the first part of Yos' assessment that it feels as if MMs "going with the flow", but the latter half is worrying me.

I don't want us to resort to random bandwagoning someone to life if we don't have to do so. Does anyone else have anything they want to add?

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

you can go through the completed 12 player games in the Queue thread and easily find games with 3, 4, even 5 scum in just the first 2 pages.

Not in the same scum group, you can't. You can find games with 3 scum and a SK, or 2 groups of 2 scum, but I'd be quite surprised to see any game with 4 or 5 scum in one scumgroup. If there is a game with 4 scum in one scumgroup, I'd expect the town to be incredibly over-powered, like 2 sane cops or something like that; wheras the town here is vanillia, and not only that but we actually are in a worse situation then a "normal" vanillia game where we'd at least get information from lynches.

In any case, if you can really find any games with "4 or 5 scum" in one scum group, I'd like to see a link.

Well, the argument didn't need to differentiate between 1 scum group or 2. Scum are scum for the purpose of this argument, since the comment was directed towards the total number of scum in the game, not how many groups there are.

But, I did find this, about 1/2 way through the completed games on pg 1 of the Queue thread:

Mini 342 - Mlakerville had 4 scum (2 goons, 1 Godfather, and 1 Mafia Thief), all in the same group,

and

a SK....and the town won.

So yes, your comment that it's

unlikely

that there are 4 scum I'll live with, but it's not an unheard of phenomenon.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Looking at it, it would seem that LML, Yossy, Vel-Rahn Koon, logictitus, yellowbounder and I are the most named candidates for revival. We should discuss those candidates and narrow the field. I'd like you all to weigh in on them all.

LML: Supporting Yos early with nothing to back up that support makes me suspicious. I also note from Yos' list that he's the person that Yos had the most to say about. Not sure how to interpret that since it's been suggested that Yos and LML are linked.

Yos: Most of the posts so far have been strategy-type posts - helpful but lacking substance as far as actually looking for someone to revive. Also early on, LML was a viable candidate for him to revive, but with the current list, that's changed a bit. What's happened?

Log: Out of all the suggested candidates, he's gone the farthest towards actually looking for people to revive. When read in isolation, has several good points about the Yos/LML links. As of now Log is my #1 candidate for revival.

YB: I've agreed with his stance about self-voting being a non-productive way to run the game - it's basically a nul tell. He's had some good discussion, but there have also been some things that have made me take pause, such as the random vote for Yos when the game seemed to be slowing down.

Zin: Zindy has taken a lead in the discussion, which I'm ok with since I believe he's town. His posts have been along the same lines as Log, except he's focused on DeanWinchester. Another person for revival.

As of now, I think Dean is my main "absolutely not" person for revival. Not liking the lack of content, or the defensiveness in his posts.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

I'm back. I'll talk to CdB about getting me a replacement, and until/if he does I'll stay as active as I can.

I'm not sure that Yb's suggestion is a good one because it rushes us through to Day 1, which is a potential loss for the town, but with the level of inactivity (I do realize I've been zero help in this department) I can understand where the suggestion came from.

If the other active players are ok with a Yos revival, I'll drop the hammer vote. I would like to see Zin be our next candidate for revival on day 0.5. I think he's done quite a bit towards getting discussion going, he's a good player, and his posts seem to be pro-town to me. I think he'd be an excellent candidate for pre-game revival.

I'm not saying we need to rush through day 0.5 when the thread reopens, I think we need all the discussion we can get. But I would like Zin to be a top consideration.

Thoughts?

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

*Crickets Chriping*

*Tumbleweeds Tumbling*

*Sleepy People Sleeping*

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Vote: Yos

Yos, if you're scum, count yourself lucky, because I really don't like doing this, but I feel I have to.

Good sentiment. The game is stalled, and it seems that this may be the only option to get it going again.

See you all tomorrow!

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Do we know for sure that Yos was revived? I'm waiting on CdB before I throw my Zindy vote in the ring.

Vote: Zindy as a placeholder, I'll bold it later

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

The silence is deafening