Mini 442 - Beast Wars Mafia Game Over

[TrustGossip]

Vote: teffc

because he's above me alphabetically.

[TrustGossip]

Ominous red text. This happens far too often to me x_X

[TrustGossip]

Unvote: Vote Albert B. Rampage

Not a great fan of the cryptic.

(Will post a summary of activity when I'm not busy/wiped out)

[TrustGossip]

I have just been hired for a summer job, so I've been busy doing screenings, interviews, licensing, consulting and et. cetera. Also, as my first game with 12, I

am

a bit overwhelmed.

Please give me 15 minutes to process five pages of banter, if I don't respond then I am worthy of your suspicion.

[TrustGossip]

Ok.

Primoris, your L-2 on ryan was very unwise when there were four (five?!) lurkers at that time. And for what?

Ryan has been very talkative, explained his interpretation of the reason for voting, explained his theories on multiple people. Isn't that the reason for bandwagoning? To mine information from a particular player? And ryan has done all of this, and everything a bandwagon could accomplish short of a total crack or a nameclaim.

I have some problems with teffc and ryan both insisting on Hackerhuck and Lowell being scum. That's tying them together through nameplanting, and although I see your reasons for suspecting Lowell, I fail to see what's suspicious about Hackerhuck.

teffc in particular worries me with phrases like, "too clean", "too safe", "not enough evidence". Well duh on the evidence, we still have two lurkers that have done next to nothing in this game.

Jordan and Albert seem safest to me. Although Albert was somewhat cryptic in the beginning, he's opened up quite a lot with his (I'm assuming) post-restriction. I especially agree with post 85, which is essentially my first paragraph.

aimee, time will tell. I know you had finals and your summary was very helpful, but long summaries with commentary can be a scum tactic to shift suspicions and et. cetera. You're still neutral to me though, leaning towards town.

Hackerhuck I'd like to see more information come out of you. You seem very town ATM but I'd definitely like to see more contribution, maybe you'd need a wagon on you to talk...?

I agree with aimee's assessment that teffc is the scummiest. Posting for the sake of posting and not helping in the investigation, obsfucating ryan's actual intentions and actually contributing on the wagon on him since he seems to agree with HH and lowell as scum. Unless you're both scum playing a game of good cop/bad cop extremely ineptly, I'd say I have a reason to suspect you.

lowell, I had some suspicion about you at the beginning, but now you've gone to lurking. Please don't let this be a scum tactic because it's really obvious (and it's kind of working, because I don't think you're that scummy really).

To the last two. Post already. Really, c'mon, it's page five.

Unvote: Vote teffc
FOS: Primoris, lowell

[TrustGossip]

Welcome to the game Sweenytodd

Edit: Welcome to the tragic debacle Sweenytodd

[some light humor, celebrating the fact that I drove across two states to live at a friend's house in order to have a functioning computer for Mafia]

[TrustGossip]

Oh wow, I just noticed on the front page. teffc is being replaced? I can't see anything positive coming from this...

[TrustGossip]

I'm always worried about a replacement for possible mafia. It involves reanalysing a playstyle, and if the replacement is smart, they'll be able to absolve teffc of anything and adopt a fervently pro-town status when it was obvious teffc couldn't handle her scum role.

[TrustGossip]

I am beginning to be swayed by ryan's reasoning. Through bandwagoning each other, most of this game's discussion has been:

Lowell's inflammatory remarks and voting patterns, and discussions thereof.

ryan's strong anti-bandwagon and anti-Lowell sentiments.

Since all aimee can seem to do is pop in every 4 days or so and leave a recap post, perhaps we need a full posting summary of the two. Perhaps teffc as well, but that is increasingly less helpful as she is going to be replaced.

And SweenyTodd, even if you're earnest about this, a L-2 is extremely dangerous and won't get ryan to change his posting behavior much. If the purpose of a bandwagon is to promote discussion, then it's certainly worked, for all seven pages. I feel that at least a third of all the posts in this thread is ryan, hasn't he given you enough information?

All the bandwagon is doing is getting him terse and agitated, and it's really clouding up the mood of this entire game. Regardless, L-2 is a dangerous proposition, with teffc's replacement as possible scum, all it takes is the slip-up of one person and we have a quick lynch. An FOS would have done the job fine.

IGMEOY: SweenyTodd

[TrustGossip]

And I suppose that I should be the flagbearer for the case against teffc? It's in my best interest to oppose a possible quick lynch of ryan, only because I see teffc's behavior as a greater evil. And now she has free license to lurk because she is up for replacement.

Could we get a vote count and the status of the last replacement, mod?

[TrustGossip]

Wait a second. You just said you didn't like Albert's post restriction ("because it makes it tough on him and makes him post less") BUT than said "I can't think of why any of us would be post restricted?" Huh???

ryan, you are seriously hindering me, oh my gosh. In case people haven't noticed this, but I tend to have a bit of an underdog complex. I tend to lean heavily against the first bandwagon being accurate. ryan, you made a few good points in the beginning against Lowell's incendiary and uncooperative playstyle, but your constant misinterpretation of people's posts is eroding my trust in you.

IGMEOY: ryan

The case against teffc is that the sum of her testimony is either; worthless (posting just for the sake of activity), vague (innumerable 'too' statements), or nonexistent (the long period of lurking until asking for a replacement).

But like I said earlier, her getting replaced is generally bad because now we have to wait for fraggle to post enough to analyse.

Unvote: teffc/Fragglescum

[TrustGossip]

Wait a second. You just said you didn't like Albert's post restriction ("because it makes it tough on him and makes him post less") BUT than said "I can't think of why any of us would be post restricted?" Huh???

but your constant misinterpretation of people's posts is eroding my trust in you

.

I looked at that comment and it looked scummy, so I questioned him on it, that doesn't mean I'm not trustworthy, that at least shows I'm trying to figure out each post instead of just skimming through it

I'm still trying to decide whether or not you're just a little overenthusiastic about finding scum, or you are one. Most of the rest of us *cough* *cough* are also trying to find scum, though maybe not as zealously as you are, to the point of a great deal of misreadings.

The crappy awful thing is that I don't think we'll really get anywhere if we still have those two lurkers and if Fraggle doesn't post more.

[TrustGossip]

Post restriction or not, Albert is playing a very solid game.

For the first time, I'm considering Lowell as scum. ryan's been drawing my attention simply because he posts often and says a good amount per post. Still unsure about whether teffc was inexperienced scum or just inexperienced.

I'd still REALLY LIKE some status updates on OTU and deezr.

[TrustGossip]

To Sweenytodd:

I'll do one better, here's a revised list of my opinions on all the contributing players (from most suspicious to most trusted).

Lowell

: a great deal of vote hopping (didn't realize the extent until Albert pointed it out), comments only for the purpose of provoking ryan further, throws out names of people he 'trusts' and people that he suspects as scum without much extended reasoning, a generally detached style of play.

Fragglerock

: extended lurk period after replacing, no urge to establish town-ness even though his predecessor has/had a bandwagon on them. Why?

Primoris

: put ryan at the closest to lynch yet (besides yours). Left it there for around two days, even after multiple people expressed concern. At least you had the good sense to retract your vote after I made it clear that I did not agree with it out of possibility of quick lynch. He has also not contributed much (I know HackerHuck stated that inactivity is not a scumtell, but not actively sharing theories and looking for scum

is

)

Jordan

: looks increasingly like a piggybacker. In the beginning of the game I didn't think much of his support for ryan because I was also supporting ryan's innocence. But he seems to be unable to vocalize an opinion that dissents from ryan's unless someone like HackerHuck points out a logical fallacy and Jordan quickly backtracks but doesn't really explain himself.

ryan

: contributes often but seems to have blinders on as he continually focuses on Lowell and not really considering anyone else (he had suspected HackerHuck, but after the presentation of other interpretations of HH's posts, has seemingly abandoned this campaign). His misreading of people's posts seems more like overzealous scumhunting, as I imagine a scummer would adopt a more complacent attitude and wouldn't adopt such an unpopular philosophy as "bandwagons are unproductive".

aimee

: she's this low on the list mainly because I feel like she'd be a much greater asset if she was just more active. I'm seeing her as a non-entity simply because there isn't that much she's provided that we can draw inferences from.

HackerHuck

: uses his experience to benefit the town has spent a great deal of time trying to teach ryan to use his time more efficiently than a simple crusade against Lowell. Hasn't done any questionable voting and starts helpful lines of questioning.

SweenyTodd

: well first of all you like a great play (haha j/k). In the short amount of time you've been in the game, you've actively compiled evidence without skewing it for personal gain and generally have been the leader in questioning ever since the bandwagon against ryan has looked increasingly useless.

Albert

: displays unusual levels of prescience in his actions. Although he's cryptic and the post-restriction is unusual, it seems sufficiently annoying that he wouldn't just do it for fun. In my opinion, all of his actions have been very spot-on.

TrustGossip

: well of course I'm the most trusted, as I'm still the only person that I'm certain is town.

I'm simply providing my opinion of people at this point in the game. People's most recent and most prominent actions weigh the heaviest (meaning that people who do more things tend to have a positive bias on this list). Please try not to use this list as a basis for voting. I'm actually discouraging voting because I feel there's a great deal of information missing because of the two inactives (three if you count Fraggle, four if you count Primoris). Sorry for lack of quote evidence, but I did not want to create a behemoth, and I am also somewhat lazy.

[TrustGossip]

Jordan

: looks increasingly like a piggybacker. In the beginning of the game I didn't think much of his support for ryan because I was also supporting ryan's innocence. But he seems to be unable to vocalize an opinion that dissents from ryan's unless someone like HackerHuck points out a logical fallacy and Jordan quickly backtracks but doesn't really explain himself.

And how am I piggybacking? I'm the one (with help from Ryan), that came up with Lowell as scum in the first place, and I've not changed my vote since. And I'm vocalizing opinions, I've made numerous good points about Lowell, me and Ryan just happen to have the same opinion, but I've already said, there's absolutely no connection between us. And the only reason I backtracked the last time was because HH wasn't adressing me when he made that rather strong post.

Jordan, honestly my list is near logarithmic, Lowell and Primoris are much more suspect than you. Although the answer to Sweenytodd's question would help us greatly. I agree that Lowell's almost certain OMGUS of Albert is incredibly stupid for someone who is already on the chopping block. But I will wait until Tuesday.

@Fraggle, I sincerely hope we don't have to wait long for that.

@Sweeny, I really hope that the ellipsis directed at me is in a positive manner.

[TrustGossip]

The only reason I'm hesitant to vote Lowell (besides the lack of input from two of our players) is that in my last game I hammered a person who was incendiary and poorly defended himself.

He turned out to be town, then we were put into LYLO and lost.

Even very high certainties can turn out to be wrong, mostly because of very convincing scum. The only question I really have is: is Lowell playing well enough that we should spare him even if he is town? Because at this point, asking me to choose between Lowell and ryan, I believe ryan is more town than lowell is.

Thankfully, I'm not at a point where I am pressured to cast a vote for either. Fraggle, with his weak attempt at helping, and Jordan's somewhat questionable (yet still tenuous) relationship with ryan, and Primoris (I haven't forgotten about you, where you been buddy...?) are all still in my consideration.

And of course, I am loath to do anything in the absence of two replacements that

we should have already, Mod, please

.

[TrustGossip]

Fraggle, with his weak attempt at helping, a

What did you see from me that you didn't like? I gave my view of each player and also stated my bottom line suspicions.

I do not feel comfortable casting a vote until we can hear from input from absent players or their replacements.

Oh, you didn't do anything suspicious.
Hmm, except for echoing my opinions on every single person in the game instead of coming up with your own ranking. This either reads as scummy or lazy. Neither is particularly helpful.

[TrustGossip]

I'm going to hold off on commenting until we get those replacements.

[TrustGossip]

Why isn't Lowell dead yet?

Probably has something to do with him promising to post on Tuesday and most of the town being unimpressed with the case you have made against him...

*clap clap clap*

But seriously, Jordan, if I doubted before, I don't now. Sweeny did an excellent rundown of your insane scum tactics.

@sweeny- It's hard to put my finger on why Aimee's post(s) looks scummy. Here's the best way I can describe it. The "blow-by-blow" post seems a little opinion-dry. As in, heavy on narration, but not really saying anything. The second post, "player-by-player", casts TOO WIDE a net for my taste. She doesn't want to exonerate anyone or implicate anyone. Not really.

It could be that she just doesn't have that many strong opinions. Which is why I didn't vote for her. But I would be remiss if I let that post slide with everyone saying how great it was without me mentioning my little bit of doubt.

It's posts like this that make me doubt my conscience.

On one hand, his reasonings on aimee are very astute and spot-on, indicating a healthy amount of pro-town suspicion on some scummy behavior. On the other hand, this information is only really revealed as Lowell senses that he's on the chopping block, and could be an attempt to throw suspicion on another person. Further more, it's somewhat convenient that he came up to the same opinion/yet non-opinion about aimee as I did.

However, Lowell's lucidity is making him increasingly less suspcious, while Jordan's lynch happy tactics make me decidedly

unhappy

.

Unvote: Vote JordanA24
IGMEOY: Lowell

[TrustGossip]

Oh thank mod.

[TrustGossip]

@Sweenytodd

I really like your conversation with ryan. It's demonstrating publicly what I have theorized for a while, which is that while both of you have differing theories on bandwagons and acceptable risks and such, you're both overwhelmingly pro-town.

The case against Lowell is seeming more tenuous. It seems like while people suspect he's scum, it's mostly because of the lack of a satisfactory defense (apparently Lowell can't be bothered to write a "treatise") rather than particular actions. And those actions are probably, as you suggested, his form of barometer testing for overreaction.

I don't think ryan overreacted because he's scum. I think he overreacted because that's just how he plays. I'm in a few other games with him, so I have at least some meta info on this.

@Jordan

I have some strange feeling towards HH and Primoris. Although I wouldn't feel right calling it suspicion. It's more of a general anxiety about the lack of contribution. I haven't looked at their posting histories, are they genuinely away or lurking?

And Fraggle and aimee... ehhh. They're doing their "part". It's negligible, but it's not particularly scummy, yet it's not the most helpful either.

I would quite like to hear from HH and Primoris, and eagerly await the replacements.

[TrustGossip]

I have some strange feeling towards HH and Primoris. Although I wouldn't feel right calling it suspicion. It's more of a general anxiety about the lack of contribution. I haven't looked at their posting histories, are they genuinely away or lurking?

They're posting elsewhere, so maybe they need

prodding

.

That makes me so uneasy. Don't people know how to use "watched topics"? If they know that, then they're intentionally lurking, which makes me even MORE uneasy.

[TrustGossip]

WOW, three new players coming in?

It's a surprising number, but at this stage, it can only help.

[TrustGossip]

STD!!!

[TrustGossip]

From what I've seen of Albert, he is quite fond of "experimental" playstyles. It's kind of irritating because the behavior ends up being anti-town even when he is a townsperson.

I would find it prudent to just not dwell on it too much, it tends to draw focus away from people that need actual consideration.

[TrustGossip]

Confirm vote: Jordan

Hey everyone, sorry for the hiatus. Discussion (and my personal interest) was waning at the time that I left, so of course right after I look away a deadline is set.

@ Jordan

Your post 408 is actually somewhat good, but it doesn't really help that every single other of your posts reeks. Oh, and a little FYI, just because someone presented a very clear and damning case against you (STD) doesn't mean that your mockery of quotes and longwindedness is going to help you at this point. It also is very poor play to accuse the current stack of votes against you on STD's experience and not the fact that everything he said makes perfect sense. You should also, maybe, possibly try to defend your own posts at this point instead of continuing to displace upon Lowell. Oh wait! That's all you've really done the whole game!

I've already said before that although you and Ryan both jump at Lowell for what amounts to negligible black humor/sarcasm, Ryan actually seems to be naturally stubbornly pigheaded about it, while your case reads like a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Obligatory

Minor FOS: Aimee

for doing exactly what FraggleScum had done, albeit in a less obvious manner.

[TrustGossip]

I'm not entirely sure what is going on here, so I'm going to make a list for myself and everyone else's benefit of what I just observed happening, from my perspective. Please correct me if I have misinterpreted anything.

Friday: Early morning

1. Jordan, at L-1, claims "pro-town roleblocker" to little fanfare.
2. HH says that this is a convenient scum claim (it is) and then pulls a "too-townie" argument at me from nowhere. Then says I have been playing it safe (what?).
3. Aimee doesn't do much, like usual.
4. Ryan unvotes, stating his reason as avoiding a quick-lynch.
5. Lowell agrees with HH, then suggests a wagon of me (again, where is this coming from?)
6. Fraggle argues flavor, look he's actually initiating a line of reasoning by himself! *golfclapping*
7. Jordan talks about using Wikipedia to read up on the show. Admits that his role flavor smells. Interesting.
8. ryan does a little thing he picked up from SweenyTodd, asking questions of other people. Generally, this should really only be done when discussion slows a little and a boost and a refresh are in order, otherwise it's assumed that everyone still has the same opinions as they had on their most recent post. Ryan, it's still Friday.
9. STD disagrees with HH's suggestion of a no lynch, an opinion that I second. No lynches should only be used when mathematically sound (i.e. there are a small group of people in a non-LYLO situation when a following scum night kill would help narrow suspicions to catch the scum in the end) or when discussion has entirely petered out and there's just nothing to go on. Neither case is true at this moment. STD then says some more stuff and continues in is argument against Jordan.
10. Jordan responds, blah.
11. STD responds, blah.
12. Fraggle responds, super blah.
13. Ryan votes Jordan.

OBJECTION!

See item #4 please.
There is a clear contradiction in the evidence! Am I supposed to believe that only giving Jordan 10 hours to defend as being synonymous with a person who is opposed to a possible quicklynch? I understand that with your pace of posting, you obviously have nothing better to do than go on Mafiascum every few hours, but surely you understand that this behavior is very questionable?

Major FOS: ryan

I want noone to suffer any delusions that ryan is my sacred lamb or something just because I think that his beating of a dead horse (Lowell) was motivated by genuine inanity and not scummishness. The only people I feel comfortable in placing any amount of trust into at this point are Sweenytodd and STD, and even then that's just because they actually process the information available in this game in a relatively unbiased and intelligent manner.

Part two following (to facilitate reading)

[TrustGossip]

There is something else that is bugging as well.

Jordan has used Wikipedia to read up on Beast Wars. I have not. I am currently wondering at what level of interpretation to use for this discrepancy in behaviors.

1. I am a dumbass, everyone should go to Wikipedia and read everything about the theme of which their game is based upon.

No, that's not it. I am obviously not a dumbass.

2. Jordan is scum who is making up a claim.

Ok, yes this could be the situation. Especially if Scorponok is a safe claim. Then he would have to go to Wikipedia to look up things about Scorponok to come up with a plausible total claim to make this wagon go away. However, why exactly would he use a Deceptacon, as Fraggle has helpfully pointed out? Surely he would know that there would be a flavor battle to be lost in that? This then leads to door number 3.

3. Jordan is telling the truth.

GASPETH!!! With certain peoples' peculiar reactions after his big reveal, I'd say that maybe, no matter how uncomfortable this reality may be to accept, this option has some merit. In addition, it explains his reluctance to claim, as he knows he has flavor that totally sucks as a defense.

Unvote

for now to let people to respond to this, and to my last post.

P.S. @ Hackerhuck, "for most of the game" I didn't do entirely too much probing and prodding of a lot of people because I like to keep a few main suspicions and filter most of the rest out. But when something actually important happens, then maybe you need to reconsider your assessment.

[TrustGossip]

I am alive. I am currently on a forty hour week and this is very very new to me, thus I am a little incapacitated in energy. I will post an opinion about whatever has happened since my last post sometime in the next two days.

[TrustGossip]

Ok, could it be any worse that the hammer dropped in two of my games while I was away being busy with real life?

*not happy*

[TrustGossip]

My apologies, Sweeny. I'll do my best to never put words in another players mouth. I remember a game where I got Lynched because someone claimed I never voted for a Scum. By the time I got back to the game to point it out, it was too late.*grrrRR*

Maybe it was that you voted for Lowell once even though you resigned yourself to his innocence.

Can you show me where Sweeny voted Lowell? I had a quick look and I couldn't find it, and I don't think he ever did. He threated to vote him if he didn't answer his questions at one point, but I don't think he followed though. So this whole post is confusing to me...

The thing about the Lowell case was I hated how Jordan and Ryan spoke in absolutes. "Die scum" "Why isn't Lowell dead?" and other statements like that really turned me off to the case against him. His vote hopping was pretty bad and the strange OMGUS vote on page six are points against him but I don't think it's much at this point.

Dusk do you think Lowell is scummier to you now because Ryan died last night?

I don't quite understand your case against me. Is there something wrong in remaining non-commital in the Ryan/Jordan vs. Lowell charade? It's "choose a side" mentality that leads to mislynches in my opinion, so I opt to not do so.

[TrustGossip]

Correction: Meant to quote confused's earlier post about his case against me.