Mini 1582: Formerfish's First Foray (Game Over)

[Formerfish]

Vote Count 1.1

KittyMo

- Nul, Grib, Boonskiies, I Love Fairies (L-3)
I Love Fairies- massive, bjc, KittyMo (L-4)
bjc- Shinobi, Grib (L-5)
Drew-Sta- OkaPoka (L-6)
theelksspeaks- shinyskarmory (L-6)
OkaPoka- Drew-Sta (L-6)

(expired on 2014-07-03 00:22:00)

[Grib]

RVS is fun. Like a party. A party of innocents and killers. And in the future, we can look back on these votes and see who was random and who may have been plotting.

Kitty, give us words.

@Boonskiies: What kind of bone do you have to pick with Kitty?

[Drew-Sta]

Keep in mind that I don't vote unless I feel strongly about something.

I don't like to vote unless I'm actually serious about lynching the person that I'm voting for, but, I guess it's scummy for me not to so or something (which I disagree with) so to oblige:

VOTE: Kitty

Less random than the rest of the votes. Random bandwagon followers strike me as more likely to be scum than most, particularly if they don't provide any actual reasoning. Like, it's fine to vote for me, but if you're going to vote against me and not provide any reasons, how do you expect me to respond? I can't. That's unfair and that's how mislynches come about, and that's how scum wins. Thus, we can conclude that those who vote with no reason, whether bandwagoning or not, are scummy.

So you disagree with the vote on Kitty because its a random bandwagon but you jump on anyway? WTF?

UNVOTE: OkaPoka
VOTE: ILoveFairies

[theelkspeaks]

Keep in mind that I don't vote unless I feel strongly about something.

I don't like to vote unless I'm actually serious about lynching the person that I'm voting for, but, I guess it's scummy for me not to so or something (which I disagree with) so to oblige:

VOTE: Kitty

Less random than the rest of the votes. Random bandwagon followers strike me as more likely to be scum than most, particularly if they don't provide any actual reasoning. Like, it's fine to vote for me, but if you're going to vote against me and not provide any reasons, how do you expect me to respond? I can't. That's unfair and that's how mislynches come about, and that's how scum wins. Thus, we can conclude that those who vote with no reason, whether bandwagoning or not, are scummy.

So you disagree with the vote on Kitty because its a random bandwagon but you jump on anyway? WTF?

UNVOTE: OkaPoka
VOTE: ILoveFairies

At least be honest and admit you're voting Kitty because she voted you.

VOTE: Fairies

[Grib]

I think ILF meant KittyMo jumping on her wagon with a wordless vote.

Let's see. Already five votes on a single person. Who is the sneaky scumbag slipping onto the ILF wagon? In an attempt to pull away from a KittyMo lynch?

Hey elk, would you say it's OMGUS if you vote for someone voting you, 100% all the time, regardless of context?

[KittyMo]

Hi Gribblypuff, you called? I need another Fairies post before I get less tight-lipped.

I'll say that if Fairies is town then Drew looks a lot more opportunistic here to me than elk (whose reasoning is less strawman and more trying to read into her motivations.)

[I Love Fairies]

So you disagree with the vote on Kitty because its a random bandwagon but you jump on anyway? WTF?

UNVOTE: OkaPoka
VOTE: ILoveFairies

Reading comprehension? I said my vote wasn't quite random.

I was asked to vote and I voted. I don't like voting for no reason, so I voted for the strongest reason I could find, fucking sue me.

[I Love Fairies]

At least be honest and admit you're voting Kitty because she voted you.

VOTE: Fairies

Christ, apparently you guys can't read. No, I gave my reasons. If you think my reason for voting is less legitimate than all the votes on me, tell me why.

I mean shit, half the game is voting on me, am I not allowed to think anything of half the people in this game? That's just stupid.

[Drew-Sta]

I think ILF meant KittyMo jumping on her wagon with a wordless vote.

Let's see. Already five votes on a single person. Who is the sneaky scumbag slipping onto the ILF wagon? In an attempt to pull away from a KittyMo lynch?

Hey elk, would you say it's OMGUS if you vote for someone voting you, 100% all the time, regardless of context?

Hi Gribblypuff, you called? I need another Fairies post before I get less tight-lipped.

I'll say that if Fairies is town then Drew looks a lot more opportunistic here to me than elk (whose reasoning is less strawman and more trying to read into her motivations.)

My theory: you don't just make the decision to jump on an RVS lynch wagon that you state you disagree with and have stated as such - that is opportunistic.

I do realise this makes me stand out like a sore thumb, but it was that blatantly obvious that it deserved a reaction.

If ILF comes on and claims it just as an RVS, then fine but it does seem suspicious and you can't say it doesn't.

Kitty - why is Fairies not opportunistic given what she has done?

Grib - exactly how is an RVS wagon a good thing to be generating?

[I Love Fairies]

How was I opportunistic? I voted on who I thought was scummy. If you read all of my other games, I don't care what the other votes are (save for L-2, I don't want early hammers), I vote what I think is right. It's why I'm very hesitant to vote at all times, I don't like being wrong, and when I think I'm right, it takes good reasoning to change my mind.

Don't get the misconception that my vote as RVS. My vote was a real vote.

[Grib]

Drew, it's good for generating counter-wagons to ease us out of RVS and really get the ball rolling. I think it's odd that ILF's wagon picked up speed so quickly. And when KittyMo had four votes on her.

ILF gave her reasoning for voting KittyMo. KittyMo hasn't given her reason for voting ILF, which is why ILF voted for her. (Also she clearly stated it wasn't an RVS? Are you reading her posts?) For Some Reason you're operating under the impression that she was thinking, "I disagree with the KittyMo wagon. VOTE KITTY!"

Vote: Drew-Sta

Second Vote: Drew-Sta

Tell me about yourself.

[bjc]

Am not scum.

[Drew-Sta]

How was I opportunistic? I voted on who I thought was scummy. If you read all of my other games, I don't care what the other votes are (save for L-2, I don't want early hammers), I vote what I think is right. It's why I'm very hesitant to vote at all times, I don't like being wrong, and when I think I'm right, it takes good reasoning to change my mind.

Don't get the misconception that my vote as RVS. My vote was a real vote.

Hmm...

Ok, perhaps thats the case. But what reasons do you think they're mafia? (I'm on my phone so if you've already stated them please just point out the pist and I'll look there). I just think there was little reason at all to validly vote for Kitty, post wise.

Kitty may well be mafia and I may well have just stopped a lynch, which I'm totally aware of, but an time someone jumps on a lynch quickly like that (making it L-2) for spurious reasons I get very nervous.

Drew, it's good for generating counter-wagons to ease us out of RVS and really get the ball rolling. I think it's odd that ILF's wagon picked up speed so quickly. And when KittyMo had four votes on her.

ILF gave her reasoning for voting KittyMo. KittyMo hasn't given her reason for voting ILF, which is why ILF voted for her.

(Also she clearly stated it wasn't an RVS? Are you reading her posts?) For Some Reason you're operating under the impression that she was thinking, "I disagree with the KittyMo wagon. VOTE KITTY!"

Vote: Drew-Sta

Second Vote: Drew-Sta

Tell me about yourself.

Re the bolded. I looked at her reasons (at least the ones in her post that I could see - I may have missed some) - I just don't see the evidence. Like I said, I could have got this horribly wrong, but anyone jumping on an RVS wagon, for any reason (reason can be fabricated remember) is to me a opportunistic vote, especiallly with so little evidence present in a game only two pages old.

Also, you seem very keen to defend her. Thats not necessarily a tell but it is curious, especially since you asserted the change of wagon must be mafia-supported.

About myself? Just getting stuck into a few Fosters before Friday night footy in Aus. Not much more to me than that. Yourself?

[I Love Fairies]

Keep in mind that I don't vote unless I feel strongly about something.

I don't like to vote unless I'm actually serious about lynching the person that I'm voting for, but, I guess it's scummy for me not to so or something (which I disagree with) so to oblige:

VOTE: Kitty

Less random than the rest of the votes. Random bandwagon followers strike me as more likely to be scum than most, particularly if they don't provide any actual reasoning. Like, it's fine to vote for me, but if you're going to vote against me and not provide any reasons, how do you expect me to respond? I can't. That's unfair and that's how mislynches come about, and that's how scum wins. Thus, we can conclude that those who vote with no reason, whether bandwagoning or not, are scummy.

I posted my reasoning with my vote. I didn't say I thought Kitty to be mafia necessarily, just that I find her slightly more likely to be mafia than anyone else in the thread.

[I Love Fairies]

I have to teach 2 classes, attend 2 classes, and take a test. Unfortunately, all of those things are time consuming and I probably won't be around very much tomorrow. Just though I should let you know.

[massive]

VOTE: unvote, vote theelkspeaks

While you COULD chalk Drew-Sta's vote up to reading comprehension failure, theelkspeaks is just blatant opportunistic bandwagon jumping with a pretty poor reason.

[Grib]

Drew, elk put ILF at L-2? And KittyMo was at L-3. So.

Well, the way I see it, if this were a world where only one of ILF or Kitty were mafia, there's a greater chance it would be Kitty. It's only the second day of Day 1, so I'm not anywhere near confident yet. Just guessing.

I don't really know what a footy is, probably not a foot massage? But I'm okay, thank you. I had a weird nightmare and could use a hug and maybe some chocolate milk.

[massive]

Drew-Sta

: You stated in #37 that "anyone jumping on an RVS wagon, for any reason (reason can be fabricated remember) is to me a opportunistic vote" -- can you talk a little more about why ILF specifically earned your vote, over the other people on the Kitty wagon at that time? Or was it just because the only other target (essentially) was Boonskiies who gave no reason at all? I guess the real question I have is, is a "vote with a reason" more suspicious to you than a "vote for no reason at all"?

[KittyMo]

So I troll-voted Fairies because I wanted to see how much her reaction would elevate to getting another vote after having complained about getting votes w/out reasons. Glad to see that she is now posting about things other than her dreams about being an IC, and that in-thread posting is picking up a little.

massive - I don't disagree that elk specifically voting was somewhat of a stretch in context but I'm not following why that's scummy at this stage of the game?

+1 to recent Drew questions, though I would like to add that I'd like an explanation for jumping on Fairies as opposed to me? Was it just that you thought she'd put me at L-3 and I'd only put her at L-4? Cuz that particular choice is suspicious to me for <reasons>.

Kitty - why is Fairies not opportunistic given what she has done?

Hm? I mean I think it's defensive of her (not opportunistic) to only really pay attention to the reasonless votes that are on her and not be looking at Boon or Shinobi, but I know from my

stalking of the whole playerlist

skimming that she's never been lynched in a game before and I doubt she's been under much lynch pressure, let alone under these circumstances, so it's not surprising? Though she also has no completed scum games and so that could be a source of "I have no idea what I'm doing" as well.

I'm curious about what people think of her first post. Would you expect that from town or scum?

*hugs* for Grib.

[bjc]

tl;dr

[Grib]

tl;dr

So. Are you scum or just a liability?

[I Love Fairies]

I was L-1 once, I think. I was okay with the lynch at the time though, because I figured both scum had to be on my wagon because the reasons for the votes on me where stupider than the reasons for the votes on me now. However, I have no reason not to buy your story so unless someone/something convinces me otherwise:

UNVOTE: Kitty

[I Love Fairies]

tl;dr

So. Are you scum or just a liability?

Well, looking at his posts since forever, sarcastic, one lined nothings. So I doubt he's any more likely to be scum than anyone else, so he's probably just a liability.

[KittyMo]

unvote

[Drew-Sta]

Keep in mind that I don't vote unless I feel strongly about something.

I don't like to vote unless I'm actually serious about lynching the person that I'm voting for, but, I guess it's scummy for me not to so or something (which I disagree with) so to oblige:

VOTE: Kitty

Less random than the rest of the votes. Random bandwagon followers strike me as more likely to be scum than most, particularly if they don't provide any actual reasoning. Like, it's fine to vote for me, but if you're going to vote against me and not provide any reasons, how do you expect me to respond? I can't. That's unfair and that's how mislynches come about, and that's how scum wins. Thus, we can conclude that those who vote with no reason, whether bandwagoning or not, are scummy.

I posted my reasoning with my vote. I didn't say I thought Kitty to be mafia necessarily, just that

I find her slightly more likely to be mafia than anyone else in the thread

.

My issue is you haven't explained

why

you think that. At least, not adequately for me.

+1 to recent Drew questions, though I would like to add that I'd like an explanation for jumping on Fairies as opposed to me? Was it just that you thought she'd put me at L-3 and I'd only put her at L-4? Cuz that particular choice is suspicious to me for <reasons>.

I must have miscounted, as I honestly thought it put you at L-2, which opens the possibility of a lynch happening too quickly. (I can't mention the game I am referring to, which I draw this negative experience from, where this happened on Day 1 due to it still being in play).

My reasoning was because she seemed to contradict herself. On the one hand, she was saying she didn't like people voting without reason, then on the other hand she votes for you without much (any??) reasoning at all. Given your wagon was gathering pace (or so I thought), it stank of opportunistic voting.

Re why I didn't jump on you? Partly the previous game experience I have mentioned, partly because I like to hang back a little more in the first few pages and watch behaviour (it identifies to me intention / where the angle of the game is being shifted in a neg-town way), partly because I simply had no reason to vote for you other than RVS, and to add speed to an RVS wagon isn't a very helpful move IMHO. I find RVS to be a very mixed bag, so I tend to stay out of it in favour of watching and seeing.

I'm curious about what people think of her first post. Would you expect that from town or scum?

Diplomatic, and concerning, but it could be due to confbias.

I was L-1 once, I think. I was okay with the lynch at the time though, because I figured both scum had to be on my wagon because the reasons for the votes on me where stupider than the reasons for the votes on me now. However, I have no reason not to buy your story so unless someone/something convinces me otherwise:

UNVOTE: Kitty

See, this just makes your initial vote seem all the more suspicious. I maintain my vote.