Mini 1582: Formerfish's First Foray (Game Over)

[massive]

Good morning, angels.

vote: I Love Faeries

There, that should help you feel more comfortable!

[massive]

I used to post this in all my Newbie games.

Often you'll see a string of random voting ... it can become an effective tool once you gauge people's reactions to being voted for. It also can be useful for:

> watching voting patterns
> learning who is willing to bandwagon, and for what reasons
> watching who DOESN'T vote
> learning who future dead people voted for, be they town or scum

In summation, random day-one voting CAN actually teach you a lot.

shinyskarmory

: Curious if you have any specific thoughts about Grib's post? You call attention to it (and quote it, even) but you don't seem to let it influence your decision about contributing anything more than a random vote.

[massive]

I Love Faeries

: Looks like the original posting of it is here.

[massive]

VOTE: unvote, vote theelkspeaks

While you COULD chalk Drew-Sta's vote up to reading comprehension failure, theelkspeaks is just blatant opportunistic bandwagon jumping with a pretty poor reason.

[massive]

Drew-Sta

: You stated in #37 that "anyone jumping on an RVS wagon, for any reason (reason can be fabricated remember) is to me a opportunistic vote" -- can you talk a little more about why ILF specifically earned your vote, over the other people on the Kitty wagon at that time? Or was it just because the only other target (essentially) was Boonskiies who gave no reason at all? I guess the real question I have is, is a "vote with a reason" more suspicious to you than a "vote for no reason at all"?

[massive]

VOTE: OkaPoka

KittyMo

So obviously you know why this vote is happening. Why aren't you doing the same?

[massive]

Wow and we get the "I have a big town read, I hope I'm not wrong!" admission from Boonskiies. Of course you're not wrong, you know who the other scum are.

[massive]

So what's everyone's thoughts on massive?

That he is a dashing specimen of humanity! Such wit! Such charm! Such poise!

@skarmory

- massive asked you a question.

My mistake-I thought I posted an answer to that question but it never went through.

I wanted to see how the "double vote" was handled-for example, if the second vote is publicly counted with the name shown on both votes, then his role claim is instantly cleaned, which makes him significantly more likely to be town. If the other vote wasn't publicly displayed or was counted but not displayed, that would make him more likely to be mafia because he would only be partially cleaned (in that his role was confirmed to exist, NOT that he was confirmed to have it) and it's generally kind of crappy hosting to publically clean a mafia member.

The real question, though, is "who benefits from wanting this information?"

I've been resisting making this post for as long as possible but honestly, and I'm sure Grib did this with this purpose in mind, but it's kinda embarrassing the number of people who think this role might be scum. We've had every possible question answered by posts in the thread (does he have to vote each post? does he have to change his vote each post? can he vote twice for the same person? do they actually count?) and we were always GOING to have every question answered in the thread -- so anyone digging for information (either before or after) has huge scum spotlights shining on them.

If you're town, the mechanics of Grib's role DON'T MATTER. If you're scum, you need to know how high in the nightkill pecking order he needs to be.

That, to me, makes the scum Oka / shiny / Boon. My problem now is that I start to see connections between them (see shiny's Post #63 where Grib's voting pattern is suspicious but Boon's first-post bandwagoning "might be noob town", Boon voting for Oka but later saying it's "not a strong [feeling of scumminess]") -- but that's immaterial.

When you guys decide you want to run one of them up, I'm witcha.

[massive]

Well, Shinobi, instead would you like to do something, anything, to play this game? I can't imagine you actually making a post to dispute someone saying you haven't done anything.

[massive]

If you're expecting some kind of reads list or something, then you're going to be sorely disappointed.

I'm expecting some participation. I know already that I can't expect that from bjc, that doing so is just going to end in heartbreak, but your contributions up until today were random vote (#17), one sentence for bjc (#56), one arbitrary sentence for ILF's defense (#57), and one unfulfilled promise to actually address the accusation that you're not playing (#91).

You seem content to be in the shadows. You certainly don't want your voice heard or to find out anything about your fellow players. Does your gut (#57) eventually find scum? If so, can we have it sub in for you?

(I'm not saying I think you're scum, and I'm already on record saying I think it's more likely Boon is scum, but your reaction to being called out for not really playing is a bit silly. Your vote is still on bjc and doing no one absolutely any good. Surely you must have SOMETHING other than "ILF is town"?)

[massive]

Why is it likely that boon is scum?

Sure. To me there's two things:

1. Avoids hammering or pressuring ILF despite claiming ILF and Shinobi are scumbuddies. Persists on voting Shinobi despite the biggest reason being "he jumped to ILF's defense" -- while Boon isn't quite so heavy-handed as he acccuses Shinobi of being, isn't this sort of the same thing he's doing, by trying to distract attention away from ILF and onto another candidate? Even after finally going from "ILF is highly likely scum" in #81 to "not really sure [about ILF]" in #83, he still remains steadfast about trying to pressure Shinobi, while undermining his own argument (which is all predicated on ILF being scum in the first place!) (Note that he goes back to the scumbuddy argument in #98.)

There's two parts to this. One, if he's actually suspicious of ILF, and thinks Shinobi is her scumbuddy, why not keep the pressure up on ILF? She's obviously going to crack like a walrus if she's scum, and probably out her whole gang. Why switch to Shinobi there? Especially while promising to hammer ILF if necessary?

And also, if you want to move pressure off of ILF and onto someone else, it's really easy here to make a better argument : That of Shinobi being scum who wants to look good by protecting a townie. Sticking to the scumbuddy theory is weird exactly BECAUSE he ends up destroying it himself, and is forced to "let up" on Shinobi when he finally sees it's getting him nowhere.

2. The "too townie" read on Grib. I may be biased because to me it's obvious that Grib is town. But even if I was unsure, even if I was only 80% sure Grib was town, under no circumstance would I worry that my read was TOO townie. It reads as though Boon is willing to entertain some possibility that Grib is scum, if he hears other people are willing to follow that path. He does jump very quickly to the Oka wagon, but still doesn't have strong feelings of scumminess towards him.

And again, that's more because I just can't see any way Grib isn't town. Boon is less culpable of trying to figure out how Grib's role works, Oka and shiny are the biggest ones there, however.

So,

Shinobi

, what made you single out Boon over any of the other people we've been discussing?

----

aaaaaaand look what happens while I'm posting a text wall. The bjc wagon is a little ridiculous, don't you think? Say what you want about him being a horrible player (and I will), him screwing up and "claiming" isn't anything at all (as he's already shown he can't be trusted to act in the town's interest no matter which side he's on), and trying to get a wagon going on him because of it is ludicrous. ESPECIALLY OkaPoka, who "wants to know how he was so confident in false claiming" --

there's absolutely nothing that so far indicates he IS false-claiming, and even if you want someone to step up and counterclaim him, WHAT EXACTLY WOULD THEY COUNTERCLAIM?

-- and I especially love the fact that not a mere six posts prior to that, he was hoping he could railroad Boon for the "how do you know he's false claiming?"

Man I have never been so happy for my vote in a looooong time.

[massive]

DON'T CLAIM PR.

PR attracts scum to target you, unless that is what you want.

THIS is the truest thing Oka has said in this game. Hrm, wonder who's targeting the claimed PR? Ha.

[massive]

I think the mechanics of the doublevoting role are of interest to legitimate townies, because I could also believe that a scum would fake an unconfirmable/unconfirmed doublevoting role to get conftown status, to comment on the discussion in #121

While I'm not sure that I believe a scum could logically fake a doubleclaim successfully, it doesn't matter -- as I mentioned earlier, every single question you could have about whether the role is real (and if so, how it works) would be quickly divulged just as a matter of Grib posting in the game. Once we see that Grib's votes are being counted (#25) then you pretty much have everything you need to know as a townie. Even if you're a townie and you're

super curious

, you should know that revealing too much about the PR or focusing too much on it just gives information to the scum, and the more information they get, the better informed they are to make their kills.

[massive]

Really,

ILF

? You're reading town on everyone

except

bjc?

There's a big difference between being unhelpful to the town, and being scum.

And since you've only played two newbie games here, I'm really curious who brought up "Jester" in one of those games.

[massive]

Can we please get back to lynching OkaPoka who went from pestering our first outted PR (#93, #104, #136) to voting for our second outted potential PR (#157, #163)?

[massive]

ILF, I really want you to be town. I have a soft spot in my heart for newbies. But honestly, every time you post, I just get more and more convinced you're scum.

It would have been very easy to answer Octopus's question. So easy I almost answered it for you! "I found Boon suspicious when I voted for him, but now as the game has progressed, I no longer lean either way." Simple! But instead you give us a dance about how now you're leaning BACK towards him being scum

despite him not posting between when you gave him a "null" pass (#183) and now

... I just, I just don't know.

So let me see if I can ask some questions to better understand:

1. You said your NULL on Boon was because you figured his vote was either random or following Grib. (#183) What's making you lean towards scum between then and now?

2. Now that you're leaning scum on Boon, does that make him a better or worse lynch candidate than bjc, who is just frustrating?

3. Drew-sta (#27) and theelkspeaks (#28) hammer on you for your first vote. You are clearly frustrated with them at that point. What has moved them from either frustrating (or scum purposefully frustrating) then, to town now?

Honestly, the thing you have going for you is the sincerity of your anger in and around #30-#60 and that's about it from my view. That (to me) is hard to fake. But you need to realize that, in this game, your words are going to get twisted and shoved back at you, and that's what wins or loses the game -- and it will take a while, but you've got to learn to differentiate between what's "poor reading comprehension" and what's willful misrepresentation.

bjc

: Why the switch from Oka to shiny?

shinyskarmory

: Why no vote in #194? You said in #186 that you were looking for specific things from Oka or you would vote. #194 makes it pretty clear that you didn't get what you wanted from him. Where's the follow-through?

[massive]

I would definitely be curious what finally got you to vote, seeing as you haven't done much since random-voting bjc back on page 1.

[massive]

Now that was unexpected!

VOTE: massive.

ILF, I really want you to be town. I have a soft spot in my heart for newbies.

So much so that you had

no

hesitation in voting for Oka, a newbie, making newbie mistakes.

Note that it is YOU who call Oka's behavior "newbie mistakes," not me, and it is only with the lynch and the new day that you have anything at all to say about Oka, avoiding mentioning him AT ALL while we were in the process of lynching him. Pretty impressive. I voted him for legitimately scummy behavior, and so if you have qualms with my vote, at least address the actual reasons.

It would have been very easy to answer Octopus's question. So easy I almost answered it for you! "I found Boon suspicious when I voted for him, but now as the game has progressed, I no longer lean either way." Simple! But instead you give us a dance about how now you're leaning BACK towards him being scum

despite him not posting between when you gave him a "null" pass (#183) and now

... I just, I just don't know.

Let me get this right, obvious self-contradiction is not cause for voting but pestering a PR and voting for someone who he didn't believe to be a PR is?

There was almost 150 posts and five days between her angry post (#34, June 19) and her answering questions about it (#183, June 24). How long does it take you to form new opinions? How many posts?

Honestly, the thing you have going for you is the sincerity of your anger in and around #30-#60 and that's about it from my view. That (to me) is hard to fake. But you need to realize that, in this game, your words are going to get twisted and shoved back at you, and that's what wins or loses the game -- and it will take a while, but you've got to learn to differentiate between what's "poor reading comprehension" and what's willful misrepresentation.

Do you really think that ILF was genuinely angry in post 53? Lets analyse that. You know she is angry because she uses the word "fuck" lots, which she normally doesn't. She is, unlike some people on this site, one of those people who doesn't think that fuck is a punctuation mark, in fact she doesn't use that word again in any post before or after this tirade.
Now let me ask you a question, when you are so angry that you behave in an uncharacteristic way do you care about spelling? Do you spell check?
There is not one spelling error in that post.
It's, IMHO, fake angry.

Also, do you think that ILF has practiced willful misrepresentation? If so then shouldn't that be insta-vote?

I think that you and ILF are team-scum.

Again, you are putting words in my mouth. I said it read as legit frustration, and did not mention swearing, which you have taken as your "legitimizer." And in a game where every single post gets read and re-read, pored over and hyper-analyzed, I fucking spell EVERYTHING correctly. That's my MO and could very well be hers as well -- but I don't think it's relevant at all to whether or not the post reads as legit.

-----

I have to go back and re-read everything knowing the new town members. I don't know about ILF "willfully misrepresenting" things and, as noted, was not impressed by her by the end of Day 1. There's no hurry for me to vote before I can go back and re-read.

[massive]

Oka's join date is there for all to see, it is more recent than ILF's If you have "a soft spot for newbie's", would that not also apply to Oka?

Because ILF was promoting her newbieship in-game, as opposed to Oka, who never mentioned it. I don't make a habit of checking people's join dates. I don't make a habit of reading players' other games. So your point is moot, since it expects going in that I KNEW Oka was a newbie.

I didn't realise there was a statute of limitations on quoting and discussion of posts or their content, if you don't think there is any value in going back over old posts and re-thinking your opinion based on them then explain this: (me saying I need to re-read)

Again, you are misrepresenting me. My point there was NOT that there is no value in rereading people's posts, but that your aggressive "willful contradiction" in regards to ILF takes place with long periods of game time in between, and you out-of-hand dismiss the possibility she may have just changed her mind.

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p5982226]What word's have I put in your mouth and when?[/quote]

Well, for one, you claim I was talking about ILF willfully representing her opinions here:

Honestly, the thing you have going for you is the sincerity of your anger in and around #30-#60 and that's about it from my view. That (to me) is hard to fake. But you need to realize that, in this game, your words are going to get twisted and shoved back at you, and that's what wins or loses the game -- and it will take a while, but you've got to learn to differentiate between what's "poor reading comprehension" and what's willful misrepresentation.

when it's obvious I'm telling her that, as a newbie, she needs to be able to discern between those two items, and not that I think she's doing it herself. You've also claimed I've been unforgiving about Oka's newbieness (which I've never mentioned). I do think you're misrepresenting me and I think it should be clear why.

But hey, you're working at least, which is more than I can say for 75% of the town.

[massive]

Rereading, here are my thoughts.

1. Oka was dumb for being the first person to say "wait, how do you know [bjc] he's false-claiming" to Boon (#151), but then jumping on the bandwagon for the same reason. Doesn't mean we should ignore Boon's statement there though. I don't know how to give Oka's follow-through any credit though. Boon's post:

About to be wagon'd so you falsely claim a PR? Scum.

Oka is even the one who points out that bjc was in no danger of being bandwagoned.

(Interestingly, ILF is the one who answers the question about knowing bjc is fakeclaiming in #153. She has a mad-on for bjc already at this point but hasn't gone full wall-o-text yet ... bjc makes an easy lynch target for scum though.)

2. Still don't like Bookskiies jumping on bjc's wagon. Or pretty much every wagon.

3. Why was KittyMo asking the mod about double-hammering (a la #168)?

4. Drew pandering to the most likely townie (Grib) in #173 makes me want to go back and re-read him in isolation.

5. ILF in #183: One of the reasons to vote bjc is "a bandwagon on me is still a possibility." At this point, ILF has one vote remaining on her (theelkspeaks) and there's one other viable bandwagon with some better-thought-out reasons than "I don't like bjc's play style." If this is a legitimate concern, and you count it as a legitimate reason for voting for someone (I don't know that I do), why bjc over OkaPoka? In addition, all of her "motivation" points expect bjc to being playing in the town's best interests, which we already know he's not, and SHE knows he's not.

6. ILF buddying me in #199 is yikes. Would really like answers to my questions in #200.

7. Man I'm really curious why Shinobi was willing to vote for me in #202. Interesting though that Octopus picked up where he left off and just did a poor job of trying to paint #200 as scummy.

8. Boon buddying me in #206 is YIKES.

9. Octopus in 230, maybe I mentioned it, but this:

So much so that you had no hesitation in voting for Oka, a newbie, making newbie mistakes.

is either hindsight or opportunistic. No one pre-lynch blamed Oka's behavior on newbie mistakes.

(oh yeah, I did, #239)

Right now: Boon, ILF, Octopus (probably OMGUS) lead my suspects. So

VOTE: Boonskiies

[massive]

Sure. As noted, it's possible it's OMGUS, but I don't think his reading comprehension is poor and yet he seems bent on misrepresenting me. In fact, start of today is the first time he's mentioned me at all, so I'm confused (a) what I might have done to make him build such a poor case against me and (2) how I was chosen to begin with since he had suspicions on a fair number of people yesterday that are both still here and still suspicious (Boon, ILF).

[massive]

Maybe I'm just not seeing how #200 can be read as a defense of ILF.

Boon: Mind telling us what specifically about ILF's posting has you convinced she's 100% town now?

[massive]

That was very entertaining.

[massive]

unvote

real quick ... I have no intention of not hanging Boon today, but knowing he's at L-1 and we have El Randomo BJC around, AND we haven't heard from ILF or theelkspeaks at all today, means a quick lynch benefits no one. I'll put it right back on in a heartbeat.

[massive]

I'm back looking at Boon's early posts, trying to figure out how he even got to ILF / Shinobi as scumbuddies. (Evidently it's the "because gut" post.) It's making me think two ways:

(1) ILF, despite Boon saying otherwise, keeps getting scummier and scummier every time I reread. For example:

Scummers really like to buddy up with town members so that when that town member flips town, the scummer looks good because he was associated with the member that flipped.

The first time I read it, she means it as a defense against why she wouldn't necessarily be scum if Shinobi is scum. In hindsight, I'm like, yeah, that's EXACTLY what you're doing in post #73 -- in reverse, though, by buddying up to Shinobi and saying his vote was "probably RVS."

(not to mention #73 now reads A LOT like ILF coaching Boon)

(2) During Boon's initial Shinobi / ILF scumbuddy outing, Boon's reasoning for going after Shinobi and not ILF was essentially that ILF was scum (if and only if) Shinobi was scum. I still think normal behavior here is "I think Shinobi and ILF are scummy, ILF is currently being bandwagoned, I don't care which goes first since they're both scummy, so I vote ILF." As Drew noted in #92, there's exactly four Shinobi posts at that point, none of which have much content, so it's hard to believe he's SO CONFIDENT in his Shinobi scum read that he'd refuse to consider other scum.

BTW Boons:

@Drew I was kidding about you being mafia. I haven't gotten any reads off of you. I am on your side when you think ILF is a scummy.

Although I realize I am opening us up to the dreaded "is a scummy" =/= "is scummy" defense.

----

In other news, I really don't understand why people come onto this board to play this game but spend game days going "I have no reads" or "I'm better after a lynch" and not participating. What's the point of even playing then?

Sure would like elk, Drew, ILF to check in.

[massive]

Optimal hider play is to hide with someone they think town, not that they think scum. They generally aren't TRYING to get killed. That was my first thought of the day and unfortunately Shinobi's only contribution to who might be town was ILF "because gut." That's another notch against ILF (sorry, Tattlerale) but wasn't anywhere near conclusive enough to bring up. In any event, I figure I'm actually the LAST person Shinobi's would hide with.

[massive]

massive, if you chose not to bring it into the discussion, despite allegedly believing it might implicate me (one of your suspects), then I think a more likely hypothesis is that you felt it would be dangerous to discuss.

But therein lies the problem. I DON'T think it implicates you. I bring it up because it's the only thing he said about really any other player besides me, and even that wasn't well-formed. As I mentioned immediately following his vote on me (and I've mentioned more than once in reference to Octopus), I'll be really curious at the end to know what the heck it is in #200 that's either super-scummy or makes people want to misread / misinterpret it.

You have nevertheless continued working through those three names, albeit coming up with new reasons to do so. This implies to me that the targets of your "scumhunting" were premeditated on day 1.

Do I read this to say that Boon is NOT acting scummy, that I should NOT be focusing my attention on him, that there should NOT be five or six people who say they are willing to vote for him?

What makes this even more exciting is that you entirely leave out Octopus, who asked Grib about his role only a few posts above your own.

My post #121. The quote you are referencing is in Octopus's post #117. And the answer is, I don't know. Either I didn't see it up above the fluffy bits in that post, or it didn't resonate as potentially scummy because Octopus had just replaced into the game and looked like he was actively scumhunting (see the three posts from 117 up to my post 121). I also didn't call out ILF for her silly "oooh so THAT'S why Grib is double-voting" comment in #113, but I suspect you don't want me to comment on that.

post 200 looks a lot like you coaching ILF, just sayin'.

Well I guess I should be happy I've gone from "forgiv[ing] blatant self-contradiction" (#246) to just coaching. The crappy part about #200 is, now that ILF has been replaced, we'll never get good answers on the legitimate questions in that post.

[massive]

I have nothing further on this. None of us know Shinobi's night target and he didn't die from hiding with me. If he died because he hid with me, then it's because scum targeted me overnight and he died and I didn't.

[massive]

I tried valiantly to not put this information out, but I think we're getting away from finding the actual scum, so in the interest of expediency:

1. I was one-shot bulletproof.
2. There is the possibility I was a nightkill target, and that people going after me aggressively know that I was supposed to die and didn't die last night, and think that lynching me is the only way they can get me out.
3. This means that it's possible Shinobi hid with me and died for it.
4. This also means we have a second killer.

[massive]

Scumreads:

Boon has, at this point, talked himself into a lynch. I was first on him yesterday and first on him today.
ILF was slipping towards scum and I would have liked to have had her answer my questions. Tattletale in isolation reads town, but I'm OMGUSing because it's me.
Octopus reads like someone with extra information. I don't know if it's scum or investigative. Nul was a non-factor.
Grib is town. I'm on record for feeling confident on that.
bjc is likely town.
theelkspeaks is a slate. He's made six posts. I'm not crazy about him still thinking bjc is a lynch option.
Drew is town.
Tony is probably scum if Boon is scum. He hops on when it seems like Boon is the lynch candidate and it's gonna be a quick one, hops off after I hop off and proclaims him town (333), and pushes bjc again as a lynch candidate. KittyMo has links to ILF (95% town, 96) and possibly Boon (86) and is weirdly the person asking about the double hammer.

My like scum is Boon, ILF/Tattletale, KittyMo/Fat_Tony.

2. I am 100% confident you are town and have been since page 1. I am confident Tattletale is likely scum.

3. I can't imagine bulletproof being something that would transfer to a Hider, but it's meta-ing the mod to speculate.

4. Since I know I'm not scum, it has to be higher than 0.

5. Nor was I, but it's a logical conclusion, I think.

Tattletale

: If only one of Boon or I are scum, is me jumping off Boon's wagon to prolong day and engage conversation more likely to make me the scum of the two, or less likely?

[massive]

In post 351, massive wrote:
Octopus reads like someone with extra information. I don't know if it's scum or investigative.

Why would you post this?

Why not? At the time, it was the truth, and my best weapon right now is full disclosure. But you know, in retrospect, it can't be investigative, can it. I was thinking, IF he's a tracker or something and IF Shinobi hid with me then it makes sense why he would jump in first thing and attack me with something, ANYTHING to try and get me lynched. But then it really doesn't make sense for him to jump off me and onto some easier lynch. Huh.

[massive]

Went ahead and checked with mod, who confirmed that my bulletproofness would have passed on to Shinobi. Which is good, because I still am bulletproof, but not sure that means a whole lot in the scope of things right now. Ha.

Drew: Hider picks a target. Any night targets at the Hider have no result, but he essentially becomes the Hidee for the night. If he hides with scum, then he dies instead.

[massive]

You understand, Octopus, that it benefits neither you nor me for you to pursue this line of questioning. In any event, I hate roleclaiming and I don't see how it would benefit me on this occasion, and I already feel like I've had to say too much.

[massive]

If you absolutely MUST lynch me in order to lynch Boon, then I'll cooperate.

[massive]

Or we could just go for the lynch as you are contradicting yourself on the "full disclosure" point.

Was one-shot vig one-shot bulletproof. Shot shinyskarmory last night. Made it pretty clear yesterday that my top likely scum were Oka / shiny / Boon, and decided to follow through. So, "full disclosure," I am currently one-shot bulletproof which is true. I hope you got what you wanted at the start of the day.

[massive]

Eh, I really want Grib to win this. He deserves it much more than the rest of you. Grib : I'm the SK. Lynch me or direct me.

[massive]

Forgot, might as well do this: VOTE: Boonskiies

[massive]

It's as you noted -- my death proves a lot for the town, namely that the people pushing my train and avoiding Boon likely have ulterior motives for doing so. It's not like they can kill me overnight, so they HAVE to railroad me into a lynch. And they had to push VERY HARD to get there. Also note that you HAVE to hit scum if you're double-hammering, or you run the risk of waking up tomorrow morning with three scum and three town.

[massive]

unvote

Decided to have some self-preservation after all. Lynch me and then you gotta lynch right every day. Lynch Boon and I'll kill a scum tonight.

[massive]

I'm not sure of anything. And, granted, I'm doing a lot better job of killing people than the scum are.

And Grib -- I got nothing else to fall back on.

[massive]

Thanks for the game everyone. First one back after 6-8 years and I'm clearly rusty as hell. Well played Tattle on getting me so nervous I put myself out.