Standardized Rules and Role PMs (Open Games)

[Thesp]

Since no one had done this, I thought I'd put out some preliminary work on the subject. Here are some proposed standard PMs. Post your thoughts on the templating, or provide your own. There is a need for Cult PMs in here, but there are a wide variety of possibilities there.

Winning Conditions

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

(I'm not wild about this wording.)

You are a member of the Mafia with XXXXXXXX and XXXXXXXX. You may talk with your partners at night. Have one person from the group PM me the name of the player on behalf of the mafia. The named player will be killed.

You win when at least half of the living players are mafia, or when nothing can prevent the same.

(Win condition is important on this one. Note the wording. I'm a big fan of the "...or if nothing can prevent the same" language on mafia/SK win conditions, as it builds in "endgames".)

You win if and only if you are the only player alive, or when nothing can prevent the same.

Role PMs

You are a Doctor. Each night, you may PM me the name of another player. That player will be protected from a single kill effect that night.

You are a Nurse. In the event that a Doctor is killed, you will become a Doctor on the subsequent night. Until that time, you have no nightchoice.

You are a Cop. Each night, you may PM me the name of a player. If that player is alive, I will tell you if that player is Mafia or Not-mafia.

(Could also be "Guilty or Innocent" or "Pro-Town or Anti-Town", but I like only being able to investigate mafia.)

You are a Deputy. In the event that a Cop is killed, you will become a Cop on the subsequent night. Until that time, you have no nightchoice.

You are a Vigilante. Each night, you may PM me the name of a player. You will kill that player.

You are a Mason with XXXXXXXXXX. You know XXXXXXXX to be innocent. You may communicate with your partner at night. You have no nightchoice.

You are Unlynchable. It is impossible for you to be lynched. You have no nightchoice.

You are a Bulletproof Townie. You cannot be killed at night. You have no nightchoice.

You are a Gunsmith. Each night you may PM me the name of a player. I will tell you if that player has a gun or not. Standard roles which have guns are Cops, Vigilantes, Mafia, and Serial Killers.

You are a Roleblocker. Each night, you may PM me the name of a player. That player will be treated as having not made a nightchoice that night.

(Maybe wording should be "...will be treated as having made no nightchoice that night", but this would only be significant if there are circumstances which affect whether you don't make a choice vs. deliberately making a no choice. This eliminates questions of interaction on static abilities, such as that of the Bulletproof Townie. I hate this role anyway, but people insist on putting them in games.)

You are a Miller. If you are investigated, you will show up as though you are a Mafia member. You have no nightchoice.

You are a Martyr. Each night, you may PM me the name of a player. If that player is targetted by an unprevented kill effect, that player will be protected from that kill effect and you will be killed instead.

You are a Suicide Bomber. During the day, you may PM me the name of a player. Both you and that player will be killed. You have no nightchoice.

You are a Townie. You have no nightchoice.

You are a Traitor. You know the mafia to be XXXXXXXX and XXXXXXXX. You have no nightchoice.

(insert mafia win condition)

(Note: this does not make this player a member of the mafia, and affects the win condition numbers as such.)

You are a Godfather. At night, you cannot be killed. You will show up to investigations as a townie without abilities would.

You are a Serial Killer. Each night, you may PM me the name of a player. You will kill that player.

[Thesp]

I would like to revive this discussion a little bit. I have some proposed language for role PMs a couple of posts up - how does it look to everyone? I'd like to wikifiy it at some point, and I'd like some input on the language of it (especially the pro-town win condition and on cults), and use this as a baseline of Open Games. Thoughts?

[Thesp]

Eh. The role PM's should all be public, but I see no reason why they should be standardized. If they're all public, then what harm does it do if mod A words his cop role PM slightly different then mod B?

To some extent, I'd think it'd be trying to prevent vagueness with setups and ensure uniformity with mods, providing an easy tool for mods (especially new or inexperienced mods) to ensure consistent games. For example, in one game I played, I was told I was a cop. That was it - no further delineation of my role. With one result, I received "innocent", and on another result I received "townie" (if I recall correctly). These results can be construed in very different and significant ways, intentionally or not. Granted, the example I'm using was from a closed game, but I can conceive of a similar example arising in an open setup as well. Standard language makes it clear what's going on, and allows the mod to be taken out of it (no needing to ask the mod by

anyone

of how the role works). In this vein, it allows for "dummy mods", where the bulk of the moderator's work is already done, making it easier for them to successfully and easily mod a game without error.

It certainly wouldn't be necessary for every game by any means, but it would be a tool, and would be the most basic tool for Open Games. Thoughts?

[Thesp]

this is going into sitewide standardization. which i am NOT a fan of. the idea of an open game is that all roles are made public right? i think a base set of rules is ok. but the mod should be able to slightly modify them if he/she feels fit. but as far as rules around here go, most are very similar, as new mods take them from old mods [for the most part].

as far as standard role PMs go, i think that is a very bad thing. perhaps some suggested PMs for inexperienced mods, but forcing people to standardize is bad.

I'm only conceiving of standard role PMs as being

necessary

for Open Games, which are supposed to be standard anyway, and only available as a tool for anyone else that wants to use them. They wouldn't be forced upon anyone doing Mini Normals, Large Normals, or any sort of theme game.

[Thesp]

I think "total victory -- or nothing can prevent same" is the only good answer. the "50% mafia" or ">50% mafia" rules are really an attempt to encapsulate "nothing can prevent same" in numbers.

I agree. >50% mafia doesn't take into account Vigs & SKs. The Mafia win condition should be:

You win when Mafia members are the only survivors, or when nothing can prevent the same.

But do you think the mafia

should

win if it's 2 mafia against a vig and doc only going into Day?

[Thesp]

I think "total victory -- or nothing can prevent same" is the only good answer. the "50% mafia" or ">50% mafia" rules are really an attempt to encapsulate "nothing can prevent same" in numbers.

I agree. >50% mafia doesn't take into account Vigs & SKs. The Mafia win condition should be:

You win when Mafia members are the only survivors, or when nothing can prevent the same.

But do you think the mafia

should

win if it's 2 mafia against a vig and doc only going into Day?

Well, since it's 2v2, there cannot possibly be a lynch. In that situation, it would move straight into night, and the night choices would decide the game.

There is no reason anyone should rationally expect this outcome to occur, and if I were playing in the game, I would be very surprised.

Once the day game is moot, the night game should be, too.

In fact, depending on deadline rules, the mafia should be able to simply both vote for one of the townies, and never move their vote, so that townie would be lynched at a deadline, no? (I understand that wouldn't work for all deadlines, but for most as written, they would!)

But do you think the mafia should win if it's 2 mafia against a vig and doc only going into Day?

No, I don't. Do you?

Yes. There's even some game-historical precedent to the concept that once the mafia reach half of the living players in the game, they come out and openly slaughter everyone left. All games I run feature this aspect - even if the town could theoretically do something at night, they won't make it there.

If the town has power, then the town has every right to use power.

I agree, well before they get endgamed.

[Thesp]

But do you think the mafia should win if it's 2 mafia against a vig and doc only going into Day?

No, I don't. Do you?

Yes. There's even some game-historical precedent to the concept that once the mafia reach half of the living players in the game, they come out and openly slaughter everyone left. All games I run feature this aspect - even if the town could theoretically do something at night, they won't make it there.

Whether or not the game ends at =>50% Mafia could become setup dependant, with some Open Games automatically killing the game at =>50% Mafia, and others playing right to the end.

Which should be standard, though? It will make it easier if we determine one way to be standard, and others to be variant thereof for ease of reference.