Open 18 - Game Over - before 424

[Simenon]

Vote Ripley

We had better lynch him before he starts posting analysis. :0

[Simenon]

That's a bit of an over reaction.

[Simenon]

I here, but I'd rather wait 'till monday to post something significant. This tiger theme is blinding.

[Simenon]

Leaving my vote where it is, on John. He's made 17 posts (of a total of 53 total posts made by 9 players + 1 mod) almost all of which have been junk. I've seen in other games how a player like this can damage a game by clogging it up with rubbish posts. It becomes all but impossible to reread; it's so hard to find the relevant material amongst the junk that people tend not bother trying, which only helps scum. And players like this are never nightkilled, and become more of a liability as the number of people alive dwindles.

Maybe, just maybe, this was an early flurry of posts that will turn out not to be typical. If it starts to look like that was the case I'll reconsider.

Possibly the scummiest thing in the thread.

Attacking people for posting differently is a scumtell. Are you encouraging a lynch because you think john "posts rubbish"? Sure he does, but so do many with his similar experience. If you don't find anything scummy within his posts, just ignore them!

Secondly, John is helping the town by being active, not hurting it. I don't think john is overly active, but the town is overly inactive.

This sounds like a baseless and somewhat opportunistic attack on a newbie. Keeping my vote.

IH and TCS are probably town, and I have a small feeling spectrum is too.

[Simenon]

No, being active, and being spammy are two different things.

Being spammy does not help the town. He's not posting attacking him for having a different posting style. He was essentially actively lurking, or posting without saying anything.

Yeah, but I think it's pretty damn obvious he's not actively spamming. This whole case is a rather large attempt to take advantage of someone who doesn't really know how to play the game, and it's rather depressing.

And Ripley saying we should lynch him because he posts rubbish is a perfect example of that. With that, he admits he wants to lynch John not only for John's scumminess but because he dislikes his playstyle. Which is entirely scummy.

Right now, anyone who is scummy to me at the moment seems to be linked/defending/something to John at the moment.

Perhaps you should realize not everyone will share your opinions.

@Panzer: meh, he's scummy, but I'm just not feeling his lynch. I quite like my vote on Ripley.

[Simenon]

Perhaps you should realize not everyone will share your opinions.

What was the purpose of this statment? No duh, because there isn't a lynch yet.

To me? That phrase is there for a purpose. Just from that statement right there, it sounds like you're just trying to unsubstantiate my reasons.

It would work if that had anything to do with any kind of case. Of COURSE everyone isn't going to share my opinions, or else the game of mafia would have no point.

Way to completely ignore the context.

You said "everybody I suspect seems to be defending John". Perhaps others have differing opinions on John. Just because you believe he's scum, which I don't, doesn't mean that I'm scum for defending him logically. Considering you ignored the reasons for why I think he's town, I'm going to assume you agree with their worth.

In that case, you're linking me with John only because I have a differing opinion. You are unsubstantiating me.

[Simenon]

...

Fos spectrumvoid

[Simenon]

and it's not them "defending him" it's them all being

linked/defending/something to do with him

. Go back and read my post.

Is that really a difference?
If there isn't, well, my point stands.
If there is, well, more than half the thread has "something to do with john". Ripley has something to do with john- so much so that I'm voting him.

John is slightly scummy in his own right, and other players are individually also, but most of them all have something to do with John.

Ah, but then, what was the point of that statement? If it wasn't to unsubstantiate players who "have something to do with john", why did you say it at all?

[Simenon]

Bah. I had a response to IH, but I got CPU'd.

[Simenon]

I'd like you to back up the claim that only newb scum spam, because that's contrary to my experience.

I was on Ripley because he wanted to lynch John because of his spam and not necessarily because john may or may not be scum. He wanted to lynch john because "he might hurt the town". I classify that behavior as a scum tell.

[Simenon]

Unvote, Vote spectrumvoid

.

And again.

[Simenon]

gah.

I'd like john to claim.

[Simenon]

Yep. This game is moving at a slow pace, john is at -1 to lynch, and I honestly don't see a good reason to let this game drag.

I think spectrumvoid is scummy. But that doesn't mean it's not proper for john to claim at this point.

[Simenon]

I read panzer as john, who would have been at -1 if spectrumvoid had voted him. :/
I guess I confused this with another ongoing game.

[Simenon]

Please read my last post.

I had confused this game with newbie 313, where I also asked sprectrumvoid to claim because I thought she was about to be lynched.

And yes, I value principle and standard procedure over my individual interpretation.

[Simenon]

I confused john with specrumvoid, in a game that I had just posted in, and asked him to claim under the assumption that he was at -1. Obviously, I don't want him to claim anymore.

Mistakes, however careless are not scummy. Do you really think I welcome all of this attention?

[Simenon]

I'll vouch that I'm in another newbie with Simenon that probably led to the mistake. However, I find it unlikely that Simenon might have mixed the 2 games up.

igmeoy: simenon

Why?

Ripley, I think it's possible I read panzer as john because of newbie 313. It's hard to explain, but there it is, and I don't really see what purpose it serves as scum.

[Simenon]

I'm here.

Unvote

. My vote is useless right now with the deadline.

Vote Panzer

. Voting for self preservation isn't helpful, especially after IH's comment.

Also, post in unluckyville.

[Simenon]

Unvote:

,

Vo:te Panzer

:p

[Simenon]

Simenon: were you aware that your vote was not counted?

No, but I had a feeling it wouldn't be. I kinda forgot about the game to revote, though.

:shrug:

IH and TCS still seem protown to me, although IH is tricky.

I've played a lot with Skruffs, maybe even more than I've played with IH. And from what I've seen of Skruff's playstyle, I am thoroughly convinced he's town.

mustafa: Post 100 is a bit wishy-wavy, but it's leaning more newbie than scummy, to be honest. His push for panzer seems genuine (if not a bit relying on TCS.

John- his early posts and reactions (especially to TCS) look town to me, but I really can't get a good read on him. He's neutral to me right now.

Panzer... I'm also a bit neutral on, but with TCS and mustafa pushing his wagon, he's leaning a bit scummy to me.

spectrum: Post 138 is both weird and scummy, and on the whole just seems wrong. For referrence:

Back.

I remember vote: John because I checked back. His scumminess is not based on panzer scum, so he's scum.

Note the not established false dichotomy between panzer and john.

And watch this:

This game is driving me up the wall. John is annoying the heck out of me: Stop repeatedly explaining dumb things. There's a certain tolerance I have for newbies, but you're fast exceeding that. The only reason why I don't think you're scummy is because I can't see why scum would draw this much attention fairly early game.

turn into this:

Why I think John could be scummy: For spamming.
Why I think John could be not scummy: 1) He's a newbie. 2) I can't see which sane scum would do this, irregardless of whether said scum is a newbie or IC.

Change of tone, much?

That's all I have for now.

[Simenon]

EBWODP:
I feel my vote's best place with a

Vote spectrumvoid

[Simenon]

Wow. saved cause of a typo.

FoS: Skruffs

for the would-be hammer on me. this is an OMGUS fos.
and skruffs, you screwed up the vote again. so did simenon.

Major FoS: Siminenon

for dropping off the face of the earth. then coming back once the deadline past. seems like a little too good of timing for me.

Much time elapsed between the two.

[Simenon]

gah.

Vote:panzerjagger

[Simenon]

Lynching based on scumgroups with no other case is silly.

[Simenon]

Still think TCS is town.

Still think SV is scum.

Vote spectrumvoid.

[Simenon]

Does anybody else find it odd that spectrumvoid rarely mentions panzerjagger?

I fail to see the second vote of the wagon. I'm also not sure what I can possibly make a defense to. Not being present during deadlines? Well, it's not as if I was actually present for much else.

Tomorrow, we go to lylo. I demand a case before then.

And I've made my case on spectrumviod very well known.

Vote spectrumvoid

I'm guessing spectrum/panzer. Actaully, I've guessed tha all along.

[Simenon]

Simenon: I completely fail to see this 'case for SV very well known'. Lying scum. Consider an OMGUS

fos: Simenon

Clearly you haven't looked.
And erm, that's weird reaction.

SV isn't scum and the cases are exetremely convoluted and am betting my money on Skruffs and Simenon.

Panzer is also scum.

[Simenon]

I've addressed simenon's post 253.

I also do not see any case from Skruffs. Argument from repetition = scummy.

That certainly does not change the fact you claimed 253 did not exist.

You're acting very strange, spectrumvoid.

[Simenon]

You laid out a case against me... I responded to that case. You didn't respond. Then you and Skruffs have basically been going: SV is scummy! SV is scummy! for the past couple of pages or so...

What does that have to do with you calling me lieing scum because you claimed no case existed? You obviously didn't check, and what roles don't have to actually read the game...

Besides, you are scum. >:(

[Simenon]

I see this thread has been bumped. I'll look over it later.

[Simenon]

I'll start with basics, and then I'll go post by post.
Wishy-washiness in bold
False abrasiveness in italics.
Wifom/bad logic underlined
Contradictions in red
Lying/misrepresenting in blue
Anything else weird/scummy/doesn't make sense in Cyan.

unvote

Mod: I apologise, but I am unable to post on weekends. Let me know if this is a problem.

John: I'd appreciate if you stop bringing up outside stuff. It only makes you appear spammy, and either way it makes you look scummy. Currently, I read you more as a townie with bad play though.

I like IH's case on panzer mainly because of the 'I don't need to explain myself' bit.

I'm not too sure whether TCS stands in my LOS at the moment, since he's pretty much inscrutable most of the time.

I disagree with Simenon on Ripley, and I also don't like the way he's (Simenon) eliminating so many people this early.

Filling up threads with spam is something that I've seen scum do. It's also true (what Ripley said) about players like this not being night-killed. So what Ripley said was not 'the scummiest thing in the thread.'

No offense whatsover, but I don't think John's capable of that sophisticated an act at the moment, which is why I'm thinking it's just bad play.

I unvoted because my vote on panzer was random. And at the time I had not considered all the players. Being close-minded = bad.

This game is driving me up the wall. John is annoying the heck out of me: Stop repeatedly explaining dumb things. There's a certain tolerance I have for newbies, but you're fast exceeding that

. The only reason why I don't think you're scummy is because I can't see why scum would draw this much attention fairly early game.

mustafa: Welcome, and thanks for replacing in. Care to explain your so-called hunch?

IH:

Why I think John could be scummy: For spamming.

Why I think John could be not scummy: 1) He's a newbie. 2) I can't see which sane scum would do this, irregardless of whether said scum is a newbie or IC.

With that said though, John's latest post sounds like a classic case of the 'let's move on, let's move on...' syndrome, while repeating his old mistake.

Simenon: For all your previous 'verbosity': why?

Panzer is also not looking good for immediately going after someone for him to 'tell' panzer, when said someone has clearly stated he will be fairly inactive.

Let's stop right here. Spectrum Void makes a contradiction in her previous posts, first saying john isn't sophisticated enough to make this a scum play, and then saying he's scummy because he's spamming.

I'll try to keep this as unemotional as possible.

John: Why the heck do you keep bringing up your relationship with panzer in real life? TAKE IT OUT NOW. And why the heck do you keep talking about panzer and how he behaves in real life and using it to justify your pathetic defense? Ever heard of children who got raped by predators who behave like nice guys on the 'net?

If you think you're playing badly, DO SOMETHING. You say you'll take it out, but you don't do anything in that post itself. And you say you realise that you're defending panzer based on irrelevant issues, and yet you don't do anything about it? I cut you slack because I assumed you didn't know. Your latest post proves that you obviously know, and yet you're not doing anything about it.

Note to rest: Pissed off as hell because of a dumb newbie who refuses to do anything when I've been so nice about his dumb mistakes, but not voting because John-scum relies on panzer-scum, and directing lynches = bad

.

I'll clarify my last post, it's probably unclear due to a lost post. I posted sometime before the crash saying the reason why I wasn't not voting John was because I felt that for John to be scum, panzer had to be scum first. Then I made a post attempting to show that panzer didn't have to be scum for John to be scum. Then after the crash I unvoted.

I'll vouch that I'm in another newbie with Simenon that probably led to the mistake. However, I find it unlikely that Simenon might have mixed the 2 games up. igmeoy: simenon

I kinda disagree with the idea of making classic tells... They're pretty much only applicable in a newbie game. The problem with classic tells is everyone knows that they're classic tells, including scum.

Then again, john is a newbie, so my point is invalid here. I can't see any reason for him to speculate about night actions, unless he's trying to frame Simenon or Skruffs or himself, which doesn't make sense

.

That makes 2 people who claim they weren't around: TCS and Simenon. I will be looking very closely at the two of them if john turns out scum. In fact... I'll be looking very closely at TCS after this is cleared up:

Since my pressure vote hasn't had any effect: mod: prod mustafa please

Someone else that's been bugging me this game is IH. I've played quite a bit with IH, and this pseudo-lurking playstyle does not jive with IH-town's playstyle (on the rare occasions IH is town, that is.)

[

Simenon: I completely fail to see this 'case for SV very well known'. Lying scum. Consider an OMGUS fos: Simenon

Hm. I'm also curious to know why panzer is defending me for absolutely no reason at all. Also, whence the case for Skruffs? (besides the bad case for me, that is.)

TCS: 2 people are at one. What vote number 3, and on which wagon?

So... the case for me is still metagaming? I've pointed out what's wrong with it already.

A color coded step by step to why spectrumvoid is scum!
(I'm so going to use this in other games.

[Simenon]

I'm not getting you

Simenon: You fail reading comprehension. In the post I did a
Scummy: Reason A.
Not scummy: Reason B (John is a newbie + Reason Bb.)

Then I concluded: maybe scummy due to 'let's move on scum-tell.'

Would you rather I fixate on one person (like Skruffs appears to be doing?)

So... Skruffs thinks I'm scum but is leaving his vote on Simenon. How convenient.

I'm also getting suspicious of the people who have been remarkably quiet lately.

That's all? I'm insulted.
The point is, spectrum, you mentioned that john's spamminess was not a scum tell at all. It's obviously trying to ease your way up to john wagon.

[Simenon]

have you even tried to read the game?

[Simenon]

btw, I was completely on base with my prediction of john. I didn't even point out how bad sv looks with john-town.

[Simenon]

I want to hear more thoughts about you, spectrum, before I consider Skruffs.

My gut is that he's being nonsensical, but not necessarily scummy.

[Simenon]

But, then, why are you still voting me Skruffs?

[Simenon]

None of you are being very bright.

Attempting an information lynch without a reasoning other than that is a risky gamble. Tomorrow, we're in lylo, and my alignment isn't what is going to solve the game at that point. I can tell you that I'm town, and if that happens , there is no place to go. TCS's particular reason for my lynch is unsubstantial. What information about my lynch do you get/not get with a Skruffs lynch?

Skruffs, that's some of the worst reasoning I have ever heard. Trying to flush out the remaining scum? SV isn't a known scum! You've haven't even provided a freaking case? What could you possibly "flush out" with me being -1 from lynch? Think about the first scum first.

TCS, why don't you buy the case? Also, putting anybody at 80% is utterly idiotic.

Panzer, self preservation was not necessary if you knew that john was town. Also, I'm getting the feeling you haven't been reading the thread. I am going to avoid games with you in the future, but for now you can make this experience a bit less frustating and perhaps more enjoyable if you actually try to play the game.

bah.

[Simenon]

That sounds pretty contrived to me, Skruffs.

[Simenon]

also:

Vote: Spectrumvoid

if I wasn't already.

[Simenon]

'tis four.

[Simenon]

But there was most likely a doctor without the night two kill (which spectrumvoid and I stumbled into), and IH was here during the no kill. It would have made it almost impossible to argue out of, so I decided to get some satisfaction of killing the obvious doctor.

On another note, I'm not even sure if mods randomize their c9s anymore.

Nice job, guys.

[Simenon]

The SV case was obviously contrived.