Open 18 - Game Over - before 424

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Random

vote: panzer

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There has not been anything else to go on with, hence the random vote.

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unvote

Mod: I apologise, but I am unable to post on weekends. Let me know if this is a problem.

John: I'd appreciate if you stop bringing up outside stuff. It only makes you appear spammy, and either way it makes you look scummy. Currently, I read you more as a townie with bad play though.

I like IH's case on panzer mainly because of the 'I don't need to explain myself' bit.

I'm not too sure whether TCS stands in my LOS at the moment, since he's pretty much inscrutable most of the time.

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I disagree with Simenon on Ripley, and I also don't like the way he's (Simenon) eliminating so many people this early.

Filling up threads with spam is something that I've seen scum do. It's also true (what Ripley said) about players like this not being night-killed. So what Ripley said was not 'the scummiest thing in the thread.' No offense whatsover, but I don't think John's capable of that sophisticated an act at the moment, which is why I'm thinking it's just bad play.

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I unvoted because my vote on panzer was random. And at the time I had not considered all the players. Being close-minded = bad.

This game is driving me up the wall. John is annoying the heck out of me: Stop repeatedly explaining dumb things. There's a certain tolerance I have for newbies, but you're fast exceeding that. The only reason why I don't think you're scummy is because I can't see why scum would draw this much attention fairly early game.

mustafa: Welcome, and thanks for replacing in. Care to explain your so-called hunch?

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IH:
Why I think John could be scummy: For spamming.
Why I think John could be not scummy: 1) He's a newbie. 2) I can't see which sane scum would do this, irregardless of whether said scum is a newbie or IC.

With that said though, John's latest post sounds like a classic case of the 'let's move on, let's move on...' syndrome, while repeating his old mistake.

Simenon: For all your previous 'verbosity': why?

Panzer is also not looking good for immediately going after someone for him to 'tell' panzer, when said someone has clearly stated he will be fairly inactive.

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I'll try to keep this as unemotional as possible.

John: Why the heck do you keep bringing up your relationship with panzer in real life? TAKE IT OUT NOW. And why the heck do you keep talking about panzer and how he behaves in real life and using it to justify your pathetic defense? Ever heard of children who got raped by predators who behave like nice guys on the 'net?

If you think you're playing badly, DO SOMETHING. You say you'll take it out, but you don't do anything in that post itself. And you say you realise that you're defending panzer based on irrelevant issues, and yet you don't do anything about it? I cut you slack because I assumed you didn't know. Your latest post proves that you obviously know, and yet you're not doing anything about it.

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Note to rest: Pissed off as hell because of a dumb newbie who refuses to do anything when I've been so nice about his dumb mistakes, but not voting because John-scum relies on panzer-scum, and directing lynches = bad.

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Back.

I remember

vote: John

because I checked back. His scumminess is not based on panzer scum, so he's scum.

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I'll clarify my last post, it's probably unclear due to a lost post. I posted sometime before the crash saying the reason why I wasn't not voting John was because I felt that for John to be scum, panzer had to be scum first. Then I made a post attempting to show that panzer didn't have to be scum for John to be scum. Then after the crash I unvoted.

I'll vouch that I'm in another newbie with Simenon that probably led to the mistake. However, I find it unlikely that Simenon might have mixed the 2 games up.

igmeoy: simenon

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*unvoted ==> voted.

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Because the events that are going on in the 2 games are completely different. I can't discuss it because it's on-going, but just take a look at the most recent page and you'll see why.

With that said, I think John is more scummy than Simenon.

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Huh?!

Reading comprehension = 0.

My line there was to explain why I thought Simenon could be lying about his mistake.

You're scummier because you've made repetitive mistakes, Simenon has made one.

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Sorry mod, was banned from computer during exam period.

My vote's staying on John, as I believe John is more scummy than panzer. I'm not really understanding the panzer case. I do not think panzer is scummy for voting John. At this point, John and panzer are the top candidates for lynch... self-defense makes sense.

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Someone please put exactly how many hours there are to deadline... I can't calculate timezones well.

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Ok. It's 1.00 am for me now. I should be awake before 11 am tomorrow. I've pmed to ask for an extension.

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Unofficial Vote Count:
John: IH, panzer, SV, ripley. 4
panzer: john, mustafa15, TCS 3
TCS: Skruffs.
Not voting: Simenon.

5 to lynch.

Mustafa: why haven't you contributed, even though you were obviously here with that 'checking in' post? You have a vote on panzer, but I'm not seeing how

Mod: If the deadline hits without TCS, can you please prod him during the night?

Simenon has gone totally silent.

I'm not sure what to think about the Ripley and Skruffs spat, but I can verify that Skruffs recently replaced into a lot of games, some of which need heavy reading. However, I find it hard to believe that he hasn't done his analysis, with this game at deadline.

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I am NOT meta-gaming you in any way. I'm wondering how could a pro-town person not read a game at deadline first.

And it's currently 20 min to deadline if I'm not mistaken... I await breathlessly for you to finish reading and post a huge analysis, that will somehow convince me some other person is scummy.

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Just a reminder: it's a no-lynch at deadline.

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First off.

Mustafa: I'd like you to explain why you checked in here without adding anything to this discussion.

Simenon: were you aware that your vote was not counted?

I'll have a look at TCS.

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mod

: can we have a prod on mustafa please?

Sigh. I really don't want to think about my experience with Skruffs.

Simenon: I think you misunderstood what I said. The first quote was me saying John was annoying but not scummy. The second was me saying the reasons John could be town or scum. I followed it up with a post saying John was scummy and a vote.

IH: I think I'm misreading your post... You're NOT saying that john is scum because his partner is scum right? *confused*

I've gone through the case for TCS, and I think it warrants an

fos

TCS: Could you explain exactly what you don't like about what panzer's reaction at -1, and what he did when the pressure was off?

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I have some major RL stuff going on at the moment (I swear it's really unexpected.) No heavy posting for the time being.

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Back tomorrow. I see nothing has happened.

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IH: I don't understand your last post.

Deadline situation:
Simenon messed around with colons, and disappeared.

Ripley posted and said there's not much to choose from between panzer and john (204.)

Mustafa15 checked in and asked for extension, not saying anything else.

John had 3 votes on him: IH (who wanted someone to hammer), panzer (self-defense), SV (who thought john was scummy.)

Ripley votes John.

Skruffs says 1) Rather go into night with more people. 2) votes john 4 minutes later for info + other reasons.

I just realised something... besides simenon and mustafa, TCS was also not around. I know that TCS proposed panzer as an alternative. But I'm not satisfied with the way simenon, mustafa and TCS disappeared.

At this point,

unvote:john, vote:mustafa

This is because I don't have any read on mustafa at all compared to the rest --> a pressure vote to say something.

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EBYOP since I hit submit instead of preview (wanted to check whether I voted correctly.)

TCS: Why did you not present your case against panzer in its full detail yesterday? (I'm not saying I buy the case yet till I've done a read.)

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Because TCS is at least responding to my queries. I have not made a decision on whether TCS is scum or town, but I really do NOT want a situation like yesterday, where we had so many missing people leading to a short deadline and a no-lynch. I want people talking. I want to get mustafa talking, or get him replaced NOW, not wait till we get a deadline.

I have done the obvious.

- Ripley attacks john.
- Ripley says panzer is baiting john, repeats it, then drops it.
- Ripley questions simenon about his mistake.
- RIpley says there's nothing wrong with panzer putting a vote on self defense.
- In post 221, Ripley goes after Skruffs.
- Ripley votes John.

Thanks john for the tip. Since Ripley thought you were scummy most of the time, you (scum) killed him to shut him up.

(The above is sarcasm. Night actions are difficult to be reasoned, and I don't like speculating on them because they tend to lead to wifomish arguments.)

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I kinda disagree with the idea of making classic tells... They're pretty much only applicable in a newbie game. The problem with classic tells is everyone knows that they're classic tells, including scum.

Then again, john

is

a newbie, so my point is invalid here. I can't see any reason for him to speculate about night actions, unless he's trying to frame Simenon or Skruffs or himself, which doesn't make sense.

That makes 2 people who claim they weren't around: TCS and Simenon. I will be looking very closely at the two of them if john turns out scum. In fact... I'll be looking very closely at TCS after this is cleared up:

Since my pressure vote hasn't had any effect:

mod: prod mustafa please

Someone else that's been bugging me this game is IH. I've played quite a bit with IH, and this pseudo-lurking playstyle does not jive with IH-town's playstyle (on the rare occasions IH is town, that is.)

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NO CONVERSATIONS OUTSIDE THREAD.

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Nice to see that mustafa is back.

unvote:mustafa

That makes a list of 3 people: mustafa, Simenon, TCS, who somehow ended up conveniently forgetting about yesterday.

I'd like the

mod

to state what his going to do about this game. We now have panzer + john talking, and john attempting to communicate with Skruffs.

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Mustafa has posted about limited access.

vote: TCS

Skruffs has outlined the case for him.

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Hey Skruffs... Whence the SV = scum thing coming from?

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Skruffs will be away till memorial day,

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Skruffs: Let's look at your logic here.

You have only played with me when I'm scum. So just because I play the same way this game, I'm scum too? Has it occured to you that I play this way all the time?

Simenon: So why do you think TCS is town?

TCS: I'm pretty sure the mod is neutral. John was killed for talking twice. Panzer was warned for talking once. It has no reflection on their alignment. You're reaching.

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I felt that post 303 was really reaching.

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Simenon: I completely fail to see this 'case for SV very well known'. Lying scum. Consider an OMGUS

fos: Simenon

Hm. I'm also curious to know why panzer is defending me for absolutely no reason at all. Also, whence the case for Skruffs? (besides the bad case for me, that is.)

TCS: 2 people are at one. What vote number 3, and on which wagon?

So... the case for me is still metagaming? I've pointed out what's wrong with it already.

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I believe that Skruff's 318 was a quote of panzer's 315.

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I've addressed simenon's post 253.

I also do not see any case from Skruffs. Argument from repetition = scummy.

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You laid out a case against me... I responded to that case. You didn't respond. Then you and Skruffs have basically been going: SV is scummy! SV is scummy! for the past couple of pages or so...

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*waits*

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Ok.

So we have Simenon and Skruffs lurky-ish scum.

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*waits for Skruffs*

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So your case for me is goading you day 1 + I have to be scum because I'm generally scum in your other games. That second case is illogical. Also, since I've been scum so many times, isn't it more likely for me to be town in this one?

I'll respond to Simenon + the 1st part tomorrow. Too sleepy.

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Sneaking in a post from school :p

unvote:TCS
vote:Skruffs

Also, Skruff is still leaving his vote from 318. I still think 318 was meant to be a quote.

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I'm not getting you

Simenon: You fail reading comprehension. In the post I did a
Scummy: Reason A.
Not scummy: Reason B (John is a newbie + Reason Bb.)

Then I concluded: maybe scummy due to 'let's move on scum-tell.'

Would you rather I fixate on one person (like Skruffs appears to be doing?)

So... Skruffs thinks I'm scum but is leaving his vote on Simenon. How convenient.

I'm also getting suspicious of the people who have been remarkably quiet lately.

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This 3-way argument is leading us nowhere.

I'd definitely like to hear more from Mustafa15, especially since he was also silent for most of yesterday.

IH and panzer: opinions?

I'd also like to hear more from TCS, who seems to have disappeared.

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Oh I just saw this:

One example of this fallacy that is used in Mafia games is to argue that because someone has been Scum in a disproportionate number of their games in the past, they are more likely to be ProTown "this time around". Since roles are assigned randomly each game, previous games will have no effect on the current situation. "

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I'm going to put Skruffs on ignore. Scum muddying waters, yes.

Hi TCS.

Simenon: So... do you still think I'm scummy? Or is Skruffs scummier?

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vote: SV

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Erm...

unvote: Skruffs, vote: SV

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I am SCUM whenever we play together Skruffs!

*just kidding*

All the best to my scumbuddy!

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Yes, I did pick up on the crumb.

I now fear Skruffs.

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mod

is there any particular reason why you're insistent on the voting format? Just curious.

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Thanks for clarifying. That makes sense.

I don't know. There wasn't much Simenon could do, honestly, with 1 innocent and a doc.