Open 18 - Game Over - before 424

[Skruffs]

*waves*

[Skruffs]

I like to replace games. I tend to get lynched day one, otherwise; replacing day two or three avoids that glitch in my play style.
*nod*
Perfect greeting, IH.
We're at deadline and I haven't had a chance to read up.

One think I did pick through from skimming the last page or two is that John and someone else know each other real life, (Panzerjager?) and that real life friendships are affecting game play. This is understandable, and I hope that both players know that if the other player is scum, in the game, they will completely use that friendship to get ahead, and so people have to be MORE wary of their friends in this game.

Someone said one person was baiting the other; this is intriguing and i want to hear more about it. Who said that? About who? *trying to rememebr from reading a bit yesterday*

[Skruffs]

might as well use what we can get.
John, knowing panzer as you do - is he acting like scum? is this what he is like when he's being tricksy?

[Skruffs]

Deadline is still four or five days away. No reason to go all cold war on us.

[Skruffs]

Okie dokie! THank you.

[Skruffs]

HEy IH, nto that you are scummy or anything, but, would you hammer tuesday if you were at -1?

Unvote

Vote : ...

John if you want to claim, you probably should now, but I'm not going to ask for it. Just giving you a chance to have a final words post.

[Skruffs]

I just replaced in, and I hate the idea of IH getting a hammer.
I hate the idea of hammering a townie, though. It happens to me a lot, day one, and I sympathize.
Panzer, you still going to vote townie-John?

[Skruffs]

I replaced into four games at once, insights will come later.
I don't like how Panzer voted john out of self defense, and then asked (as if in afterthought) well, how do we KNOW he's not scum?
I have no idea what the hell ANYONE is at this point.

Also, I hate it when people ask me for insights, because when I post insights, I invariably find them disagreeable to the town's collective logical reasoning. Give me stuff to work with, I can form a good conclusion, but ask me to speculate? Nobody's going to like that.

[Skruffs]

I believe I was saying 2+2=4, which is what you put John at.
If it was only a self defense, then why are you also encouraging his lynch? You don't seem to have a reason to think he's scum, you just don't want to be lynched yourself, and rather than defending yourself, you're shooting the barn, or whatever that l.f. is.

Ripley - Why do you want to know? No, if I was seriously suspicious of John, at this moment, I would have lynched him. As I am sure you would have, too. Right?

Unvote : T.C.S.

dangit.

[Skruffs]

Ripley, I've been in the game four days. It's a little early to insinuate I'm not being helpful. I think replacing into the game at all is very helpful.

I've not read. I posted a little prod on the panzer/john thingie to see what that was about. I'm *not* up to date, and I'm not going to start barrelling into something that I haven't got any clue about. I'm abotu two pages back so far inthe game, but i replaced into a few others that have been soaking up my attentions.

I pmed the mod to extend the deadline, i'd like more time to catch up.

I didn't realize everyone was waiting on my insight, actually, considering the good myinsight usually does.

Who are YOU suspicious of, Ripley? You've been here since the beginning. If you want to pressure me for opinions after 4.0 days, you better have one after being here for 40.

[Skruffs]

I don't see how I am evading questions ; I explained my status, the reason behind my status, and asked why you are choosing someone who just replaced into the game for for some sort of analysis.

To turn around and say that I am evading the question by asking you the same question, uh... isn't that evading the question that you yourself are inferring that I evaded?

The following post is even more bizarre; apparently I'm the only person who might hammer one of two people that you claim to be suspicious of. Well, don't worry, I try not to hammer people I don't have a reason to hammer, unless it's eitherme or them. It's not me or them. I'm not going to hammer, unless I find a reason to do so. My earlier thing was a jab at IH; he was sayign he would hammer, so I wanted to one up him and hammer first. Then I realized that was stupid.

Ripley, doesn't it bother you that IH is pushing for someone else to vote so he can hammer before the deadline, but is also sayign he wants to extend the deadline?

The reason I am hesitant to give insights is because of the reasons I stated earlier. Why ask for a movie review from someone who hasn't seen the movie?

Why say I'm suspicious for askign for a deadline extension only 18 hours from deadline, when you decided to start asking for my opinion only the day before?

If you are suspicious of John, why are you unvoting him and tryign to get someone else to tell you why you should vote for him?

When would have been the best time to say I haven't read the entire game? Every day since I've replaced in?

I meant that I've read pages 7 and 8, mostly. I don't really like how right before the deadline - which you didn't really want to extend until I said I wanted to extend it - you put this big ole post about my posts.

Yes, I'm not going to assume that John claimed townie. On a day one if things look hopeless, scum shold be trying to pull out other power roles so their buddies know who to nightkill; playing meek and rolling over and all that doesn't strike me as scummy. If John's spamming, he's spamming. Big deal.

Seriously, read my posts. I have not read, but I am commenting on the game *AS IT HAPPENS* and

asking questions

. Forgive me for not having read the rest of the game so far, honestly. It will happen. And I will have a nice analysis. I promise.

In conclusion : If I am being evasive, it's because I am not ready to dedicate my honest opinion blindly on a situation I am not totally familiar with. You will either have to trust that I will actually offer my opinion, when I have one, or you will have to assume this is a scum ploy, and vote me for it. Saying I am refusing to give my opinon is wrong, though, because I am being honest with my opinons right now, and that is, I'm not comfortable giving them before I have them. Okiedokie?

[Skruffs]

HEy IH, nto that you are scummy or anything, but, would you hammer tuesday if you were at -1?

Unvote

Vote : ...

John if you want to claim, you probably should now, but I'm not going to ask for it. Just giving you a chance to have a final words post.

I just replaced in, and I hate the idea of IH getting a hammer.
I hate the idea of hammering a townie, though. It happens to me a lot, day one, and I sympathize.
Panzer, you still going to vote townie-John?

Waffling si when you take a stance, and when questioned, take the opposite stance. This all seems so contrived, antagonistical, and divertive. I really don't understand it. But I'm pretty worn out, so maybe that's to be expected.

I'm reading and makign an analysis post, now.
I think if you can, you should unvote john until I'm done it. From what I've seen, he's being set up.

[Skruffs]

SV, Ripley, I love both you guys alot, but please don't try to metagame my intentions. I still follow Open 2 and Open 14, both games I was lynched in, and so I tend to 'skip over' this game sometimes when I am clicking on games to check up on. CHeck out Open 19, I'm having the same problem there, too. Anyways, I'm up to page three.

Ripley, I'm glad you can skim through the entire game multiple times with no trouble, but when I read a game, I process the entire game as one huge load f information, I take notes, draw conclusions, and try to make what I say seem reasonable. Rushing it is stupid, sloppy, and useless. I'm not going to do it, and I'd prefer not to be fossed for it.

Lastly: The deadline was imposed a day before I replaced in. Making me seem suspicious for not having a clear and concise idea of what's going on is pretty stupid, because, no offense meant, but when it was up to the rest of you, y ou guys seem to not have any clear idea abuot the game either.

Page three comments:
I would like to point out that TCS is a smart person and the tactic of giving someone else his vote seems to be a favorite of his. He did it in love boat mafia, as scum, proxying his vote to me while he was on absence. It gave him a non-reason/excuse to put panzer at -1, riding along on John's coattails. John for his part shuold have known better than to vote someone who was at -3, when TCS had followed his vote around for the last three votes, even going so far as putting himself at -2. He *should* have known that TCS would put Panzer at -1, and maybe he did. But is it John's responsibility to not vote someone, knowing that TCS will be followign along behind him? Or is it TCS's responsibility to vote for himself, even if he has a funny gimmick to pass the first through pages along with. Because, for all intents and purposes, all we know now, is that TCS voted everyone taht John voted, up to page three.

I geuss we'll see in later pages as to why he did this.*read read read*

[Skruffs]

Well, SV... to be honest, after having read page three and moving to page four, I'm really very suspicious of TCS.

Here's the situation as I see it.
TCS is playign his little gimmick where he follows along behind John, voting who John posts.
IH makes his appearance and votes Panzer. Panzr and john have been talking a bit,a nd panzer seems like a fairly easy lynch. You make your entrance, and also random vote Panzer. Interesting.

Shortly thereafter, John votes panzer, and TCS follows suit, putting Panzer at -1. There is some contention abuot why is Panzer is put at -1; John is the only person to remove his vote, moving it to ripley.
This is odd, mostly, because TCS *didn't* follow along behind him. He didn't follow John's move to ripley or his later unvote from ripley. So, that seems odd.
I think TCS might be the better play, because whereas if TSC turns up scum, John might be also, there's no way to really prove TCS is scum or town with john's results, unless john turns up town.

I also noticed that in the middle of that, when IH posted his statement that scum was john, panzer, and TCS, you responded with your feelings about Johna nd Panzer,but you pulled a neutral on TCS, calling him inscrutable.
Well, of course he's inscrutable; he followed along behind John and let John tell him what to do. But other than that, I just feel like (at teh end of page three) that there is alikelihood of SV and TCS beign partners than john and panzer. Yes, this goes against my thoughts from before, and I am assuming that is why Ripley is pressing me about them. No, I don't whole-heartedly believe that. It's just in there, in my head, sluyrring around.

I don't think that a day one lynch should be based on annoying habits. I learned that in Open 12 when we lynched fircoal at deadline for being the annoying cohort to twito. We were put at lylo the next day, and fortunately won, but ripley was sure I was scum,t hen, too. Remember, Ripley?

If we get to deadline and John is lynched, then, I guess it's too little too late. Sorry.

[Skruffs]

fro the record : Animaniacs, PS2Sux, and kingmaker were also deadlined, and I replaced into night in an endgame situation in Mafia 59, hell on earth. That and I was asked my opinion immediately in Haiku Mafia and Cats Mafia. None of this is relevant, just asking for leniency. I like this game.

[Skruffs]

Well.. thinking TCS is more scum with mustafa than with john at the end of page four.
I realize that we might be going into night with no lynch and thus no information, but I really don't see any reason vote someone I don' tquite see as scum. I'd rather have an extra person around if things get tighter down the road, so I'm not going to be lynching john tonight.

[Skruffs]

Baugh. It's just a game.

Vote : John

REgardlses of his alignment, it will narrow the suspects down, get rid of chatter, free up IH to go after other people, and leave us information. I think he's town, bt I've been wrong before. HEre's hoping.

[Skruffs]

witht ht I need to sleep, got to the middle of five, replaced in at 7, I think.
Thoughts:
Simenon, very pro town. Probably the MOST pro town in my eyes.
Ripley - aggravates me, but probably pro-town.
TCS - played behind John today, and took advantage of the john/panzer thing early on to get panzer up close to a lynch, which john wound up taking the fall for.
Mustafa - clearing TCS for no viable reason I can see, so 2nd scummiest in my book.
SV - Well I haven't seen SV play as town yet but she seems pensive.
IH - Voted one person today but discussed with lots of others. Very protown.
Panzer - seems like town, put at -1 twice for no apparent reason (not that that clears him). Since he was a big target of TCS/John combo, I'm willing to think he's town.

If I'm not aroudn in the morrow, hope you all enjoy the rest of the game. Sorry for takign so long to get 'involved'.

[Skruffs]

Beh.

For anyone who is not aware of it, the correct method of voting is

Vote: (playername

. There has to be no spaces between the vote and the colon. Same with unvotes.
That being said, how do you feel today john.

[Skruffs]

Your tune yesterday was following John's votes around. You didn't have a tune of your own. SO what tune aren't you changing?

[Skruffs]

I know: You followed John around until it put Panzer at -1, and then when John unvoted and moved around to other votes, you stayed on Panzer. This seems pretty innocuous to me and therefore suspicious. You can claim to be folliowgn john onto panzer but have no reason to explain why you stayed on him, becayuse the reason you vote him was because John voted him. I said this on my posts leading up to deadline,a dn instead of addressing them, you said you were just going to follow your tune.
My experience with you is mostly limited to Love Boat mafia where tyou were scum and proxed your vote to me, so proxying your vote (in a different format) to John day one seems awfully awfyuly scummy to me. : ) Surely you understand. Please explain ywhy uou did what you did yesterday.

[Skruffs]

Vote:TheCentralScrutinizer

[Skruffs]

I don't see how I screwed that up. It's bolded with a colon directly after the vote.
I'll try it a few more times.

VOTE: The Central Scrutinizer
VOTE : The Central Scrutinizer
Vote;The Central Scrutinizer
Vote::The Central Scrutinizer
Vote : The Central Scrutinizer

One of those should work.

John, I didn't vote before the deadline. I also unvoted and voted incorrectly. As I was saying in my analysis of the game shortly before the deadline, I was not very suspicious of you. However, I am willing at accept I'm nto right in my suspicions, and I have been fossed and lynched and voted for in other games for sayign that a no-lynch is a good idea on day oen with no information. I voted you almost entirely to help get information out of you.

Try to do more than simple retroactive scumhunting today. You're being loud, defensive and uncurious about this whole game.

[Skruffs]

Okay, well, that's cleared up.

[Skruffs]

Nobody else claims to have a major hold up.
Come on, guys. Lynch the ssscum.

[Skruffs]

Do you mean people who voted or didn't vote around deadline?
You pushed for a John lynch for the last couple of pages before deadline,a dn I remember SV goaded a bit, but other than that, not many people seemed to have any idea of what's goign on. This might be an exaggeration.

[Skruffs]

Wow, John, why indeed. Why would someone kill Ripley? He was too vocal and aggressive to eb considered a doctor. Maybe someone killed him because he was getting

too close to the truth

. Who was he the MOST against near the end of the day in day one? Obviously whoever that was, THAT is the

MURDERER

.

He never really liked...

you

, Spectrumvoid, did he? Did he spurn your advances? Did he hold your 'type of lifestyle' in contempt? Hmmm? And why did you vote msutafa, when T.C.S. did hte same things, and is currently has a stronger wagon on him? Playing distraction, are we? You can admit it. Tell us...

THE TRUTH

(Thank you for the lead in, John)

[Skruffs]

I agree, at least, on that. I know there is a classic tell about someone congradulating the doctor - is there possibly another tell concerning the first person to speculate on why the nk target was killed?

[Skruffs]

Huge FOS on da Panzerman

Smaller fos on John

Maybe they were talking outside of thread because they are scum buddies.

Panzer - TCS would have two partners, not one. You apparently think SV Can't be one of them? Why would SV be the *only* person other than Ripley not acting scummy? This partial clearing of SV is scumscumscummy.

[Skruffs]

Agreed, but I don't believe in modkills as a whole. But TCS wasn't saying only you should be modkilled.

Why were you guys talking about it? ANd even if you were, why would you bring it up here? This is the second time John has talked out of the game with another player.

[Skruffs]

K. John, is there a reason why you

knew

you wouldn't be a target for a nightkill?

[Skruffs]

No, John PMed me a message night one, right after the botched lynching, saying
"You never unvoted. your hammer on me didnt count. see you day 2."
I wrote it off as him thinking I was scum that had messed up trying to lynch him, but when he also talked to panzer about the game, and said similar things - that ripley adn SV were the night's targets - that makes me think that he knew. Of course, SV wasn't really a target at all, because

she's scum

, and all that, but John is not really good enough of a player to 'guess' that Ripley would be targetted unless he knew Ripley was going ot be targetted.

[Skruffs]

Welcome back, everyone.
TCS - do you still think Panzer is 50% scum?

[Skruffs]

Well, knowing that SV is scum, and SV was voting Mustafa yeseterday, and Mustafa isn't scum... in conclusion, if SV is voting TCS, TCS must not be scum.
Hmm. *puzzle*
And I was sure he was, too.
IH, are you scum?

[Skruffs]

SV can't read me, but I can read her. She's scum.
<3 her tho.

[Skruffs]

SV, you have turnred up scum in almost every game that I've played with you. I'm starting to wonder if I am like a figment of your guilty concious, and I only replace into games where you are scum, or something. You are acting like the SV in all the games i've seen you in where you are scum, so, i will say that that you are scum.
It's like, if I was pretending to be a cop (I'm not), I would say I have a guilty result on you, or something like that.

Imma gonna be lurky-slackin' the next ten days or so.. but i iwll post at least every other day. (as SV noted above)

[Skruffs]

FoS: Simenon and TCS

TCS for being not providing any reason other then "applying pressure" by putting someone at -1 which could be easily get someone lynched by someone who feels like being a dick. Simenon as a hunch.

Panzer When did your last mention of Simenon - quoted above, from April 5th - become " I'm positive about simenon so

Vote:Simenon

"

[Skruffs]

Panzer, a month and a half is plenty of time to reconsider - that is very much true - but you've not once mentioned why or how. You jsut went from 'hunch' to 'sure' without saying anything about why or how.
Still lurky lurky but makign a big post in my games today ebcause I have free time.
SV, Panzer, and who's the last mafiascum?

[Skruffs]

I'm sorry, Sv. But I am enjoying watching you squirm.

[Skruffs]

Well... my case is this... I was suspicious of SV day one... simply because of the huge ratio of times she has been scum to times she has not been. IE, all of them. I know that's gambler's fallacy, but, something about the way she was goading me at the end of the day struck me wrong. For the record, I would have liked to have lynched John day one, but he took care of himself day 2, instead. Which works out - numbers wise, we are effectively at day two, instead of day three, because of the no-lynch day one adn hte no-kill/successful protect night two. So, on the basis that there is a doctor, I'm going to go out and say, yeah, I know for a fact that SV is scum. ^.^

[Skruffs]

It would, traditionally, but, come on SV. Make this easy for me. You are scum, I am town. ^.^ You know this. I know this. Fussing over it is just going to maek it more drawn out.

[Skruffs]

Well, I've left a huge breadtrail, so I'm tryign to flush out additional scum. That's why my vote is (still) on Simenon. If I turn up dead than SV will be the immediate vote the day after. Poor Spectrumvoid.

[Skruffs]

SV, don't try to tie yourself to mustafa, he's town

[Skruffs]

Has *Everyone* commented on SV? I've been fishing for reactions for two game days now. I investigated her night one. Is that clearer? She's scum.
<3 her though. THere are no godfathers, and no millers. I think she, if nobody else, saw my accusation day 2, and I think that the doctor did too. I think that's why there was no kill last night.
I know, I know, it's all so WIFOM.
Lynch SV and I'll be cleared. Even if you think I'm scum bsusing a buddy or something, it's still -1 scum, and we're NOT at lylo, so it's safe.

[Skruffs]

Read up. SV is a known, and I don't know how much longer I have in the game, so I'm trying to flush out the rest of the scum. Everyone's upt their votes and opininos out there nad if I remember correctly, two or three pages back there was something that lead me to think that I knew who the second scum person was, BUT, after my vacation, I forget, so I need to reread.

[Skruffs]

earth to panzer

[Skruffs]

Unvote

You're at -1? Wow. Not any more, thanks to me!

*proud*

No, I was not trying to lynch you, simenon. I was trying to get more information about you and such out. If I thought for sure you were scum, I'd defintely be saying that you shuld be lynched. Other people are trying to bypass what I said about SV in getting you lynched, misconstruing things nad such forth. Panzer is one of those people. TCS is another. One of them will get checked out tonight.

[Skruffs]

*puts his head in his hands*
TCS, I can't tell if you are playing stupid or if you're just skimming and have no idea what's going on. You've been super-scummy pretty much all game - which is why I was voting you earlier, something I don't remember ever being addressed before john imploded day two.

[Skruffs]

I'm sorry, if me claiming a cop inspection on her seems contrived to you.
I really didn't realize that cop inspections had to be approved by the public before the cop was known who they are. Stop digging yourself into a hole.

Scum list : SV (definitely) TCS (pretty sure) Panzerjager (Probably) Simenon (decoy)

[Skruffs]

I just want to make sure everyone rereads day two if I"m not aroudn in the morning.

[Skruffs]

If he is lying, then we kill an innocent, another innocent is killed overnight, and then we lynch skruffs, leaving us with 4 people and 1 scum, and then another town is killed overnight, making it a 3 person 1 scum game... Oooerr...

why do you think there is only 2 scum in this game?

[Skruffs]

Sorry, SV.
Love you!
STOP BEING SCUM!!!

[Skruffs]

Yeah, I noticed that today when I looked back >.<
stupid me.

[Skruffs]

It's okay. SV is dead, now, and that's what matters.

[Skruffs]

For some reason I confused this game with open 19.. I don't know whatI keep doing that but it happens over and over again.. very frustrating.

[Skruffs]

dammit IH

[Skruffs]

K. Shame. Mustfa and Panzer are clean, and I'm dead tonight.
So if TCS isn't the right choice, Simenon is.
Gentlemen, care to to discuss?

[Skruffs]

Vote : Simenon

I just don't get why the mafia didn't kill mustafa - who i cleared yesterday.

[Skruffs]

Yay. ^.^

[Skruffs]

btw simenon my vote hasn't c ounted yet. >.> <.<

[Skruffs]

Beh. Thanks. ^.^

[Skruffs]

What do you mean obviously contrived? I breadhinted in a way that I hoped the doctor would see as 'strongly' and that the scum would see as "silly"... and I think it worked - you guys tried to kill me night two, right? and the smart doctor noticed and picked up on it?

[Skruffs]

^.^

[Skruffs]

<3 SV 4eva

[Skruffs]

I never really got the hang of it, obviously.
I still think simenon may have been able to pull off a gambit wherein he suggested i was bussing SV to claim a cop role or something. I feel like the game was broken after SV got lynched. It defintely felt.. *sniff* emptier