Mini 432 - RajÔÇÖs Freaktown IV (Raj's Ladies): GAME OVER

[IH]

Aw, a Survivor from last game died?

How sad.

....Did we hit Mafia night 1? Awsome. And...is that a cult Leader? Hopefully, this will go quick enough. It should, at least. There are prolly two other people in the Mafia, but we seem to have a Vig, or at least a serial Killer, killing people off, so with two kills per 24 hour period...well, we'll see, I suppose.

Minor scum tell.

Vote:metatron

Not to mention her role fishing in post 20.

FoS:Lawrence

You know we did just have a crash? Lurker hunting is not exactly smart right now I believe. I had this topic watched, and then when it crashed, it came unwatched

[IH]

IH that is a bad excuse, seeing how RAJ sent out multiple PM's telling people the game started. That same exact thing happened to me and Raj pmed me twice that the game had started. I didn't get the first one due to my inactivity on the site as a whole which is accredited to real life.

In short, that is bullshit IH. Unvote, IGMEOY: IH

Since the game started.
I added it to my watched list.
A fricking CRASH happened.
It was DELETED from my watched list.
So when I checked on my games it was not fricking on here.

Unvote IH, vote: Scotmany.
This doesn't mean I trust you, IH, the crash is over some time now, and raj sent an extra pm as panzerjager said. But I unvoted you because you actually did something, and scotmany basically said he didn't do anything yet on purpose, because he doesn't like the first pages.

and I didn't get one til Sunday, which is why I posted, because I remembered I was in this game. I had one which alerted me of the beginning, but I did not get a second one after the crash.

unvote, vote:Billy Twilight

Part of post 49 is crap.

Avoiding the random voting phase is ok, but not being aware of the game is not? It is not ok to avoid the random voting stage, as you're intentionally avoiding the game, if you're going to lurker hunt. I am mainly voting for you, because you said Scot's was completely ok, but threw suspicion on me, right after two players had expressed suspicion on me.

Panzer, Lurking isn't that great of a strategy when you get modkilled for it.

Which I believe is the problem with this game so far

vote ih

Why?

Also, there is something about IH's calm attitude, considering he's only made one post, that seems a little...too on top of things. I know that, in game where I play scum (a few meatworld games and a few on other sites or with friends) I tend to be more confident and in control than when I play town. Still, I don't want to appear to be OMGUSing him, so I'll leave the matter alone.

It wasn't that long of a read, I mean two pages? Meta, you clearly have never played a game with me ^_^

I feel there are way to many opportunistic players in this game....

Panzer and Lawrence jumping on someone for an excuse?
Billy following it up, going for the excuse the others disliked the most?
Logictus placing a vote on the other one.
and Baby Jesus coming in and slapping down a vote.

Panzer in 69, you say Logictus is distancing from me, when he voted Scotmany.

[IH]

I don't agree with Billytwilight, but not with Panzerjager either. Lynching lurkers is wrong indeed, but voting lurkers is good. Everybody is attacking someone who votes for a lurker here, that's stupid. Voting lurkers makes them post, and if they don't post they don't help the town either. So, my opinion: voting lurkers is good, as long as they don't get lynched without a chance.

unvote, vote: logicticus. You just act too scummy. At least act like someone who's on the town side if you want to defend yourself.

THIS IS WRONG. WRONG WRONG WRONG. Most likely, if someone is lurking, they are not looking at the thread. Therefore, votes on them aren't going to do anything, and a PROD is a more effective method of getting someone to post. If you put votes on them, you just are putting them open for a lynch. You are being stupid for voting them, and essentially distracting away from something else.

Yes I know that right now this is the main conversation, but it's more that we are having this, and someone just comes out of nowhere and votes for a lurker. "THEY'RE LURKING, LAWL, LET'S VOTE THEM!" That completely distracts away from useful conversation, as everyone under heat says "YEAH LETS DO IT!" until a sensible player asks for a prod.

Lurker voting/hunting=stupid unless said person is intentionally lurking, and you can't know that until the mod prods them. If they pick up their prod and still lurk, they are obviously intentionally lurking.

What I said after voting you has nothing to do with what I said before that in the same post (i understand if you thought so). I did not vote you because you voted a lurker, in that point we both agree. I'll clarify why I voted you:

-NOT because of who you voted, we both agree on the lurker-voting.
-because you just joined the discussion without saying why you were lurking yourself. (The others did say this.)
-because your posts are so short, they almost don't contribute to the discussion (although I hate those really long posts). This last post is an exception though.
-I just think your scum according to your behaviour. This was the most important reason why I voted you, but you only had 3 posts then, so this might change.

By the way, some of these arguments count for BabyJesus too, who just votes without giving a reason. FOS: babyjesus

You might be right about the bandwagon though, I didn't realize you already had 2 votes on you, so I might unvote if you'd get in danger so you could try to defend yourself.

Panzerjager: I don't really understand this last post. Who is distancing who with who's vote? Of course I care who dies. But I admit I am changing my votes much now, but it's the beginning of D1 so I hope you don't mind that.

1)I don't believe anyone asked for explanations on why we were lurking (except for Billy asking about me), I personally volunteered one, which makes you and panzer shooting them down even more ridiculous.
2)You are essentially voting Logictus for a playstyle choice (AKA, short posts) this is stupid, and I disagree and will say he has been adding to the discussion.
3)Metagaming has some uses

I'm fine with LL's explanation for his vote. At first I though he was being a little hypocritical, but he had other reasons for voting for him instead of his lurkiness.

Dude, they're crap reasons.

[IH]

I want to clarify my point on lurking and lurker hunting. Everything that I have said on the topic was meant to implicitly be about the random voting phase. I find it generally a bad tactic to attack players for lurking in the random voting phase, as I can see many reasons why players wouldn't get really into posting during that portion of the game. As we get into the meat of the game I think I swing more into the position that Panzer and LL have taken. Sometimes scum like to try and fade into the background when the discussion gets heavy, especially if someone town is in trouble, and it is bad play for the town to allow this when posting in the game becomes really important. I want to clear this up because undoubtedly someone will vote a lurker later in the game and you won't see me get really upset about it.

But if you do this, then you allow scum to hop on an easy lynch too. It's better to prod them before voting, as the mod will (or should) inform you if they have picked their prod up, yes they can tell. ESPECIALLY when you get deeper into the game, you should ask for a prod before acting on a lurker vote, because if the conversation IS that valuable, you may be distracting away from a succesful scum wagon, and get someone lynched, when it would be better for them to be replaced.

[IH]

IH, you are going to have to clarify this. First, you are on the record saying that the topic became unwatched during the crash. This happened, the topic was destroyed during the crash. However, after the crash raj sent a PM to me saying that the game was started. Did you not receive such a PM? I am going on the assumption that all players received this PM, and if so, then your excuse for not posting is illegitimate. I NEVER said that not knowing the game was starting was a worse excuse than not liking the random voting phase. I simply don't believe that you didn't know the game was started, unless freak missed sending you the PM. I asked you in post #49 if you received this PM, and you have yet to answer.

That's what happened. I just got one Sunday, or else I accidentally deleted it.

Like it even matters though, if I was wanting an "excuse" I would have just said "hey I forgot about this game" instead of explaining what happened. = |

As for post #78, I think we are arguing semantics. I agree with you that the best way to handle a lurker is to let the mod handle them. I just wanted everyone to know that I don't get as upset about people placing a vote on a lurker later in game as I do during the random voting phase, as some players (like MeMe) prefer to handle that situation.

No, there is clearly a difference. If you didn't grasp my other posts, what you are doing are distracting away from more important things when you move your vote.

[IH]

Mert=Protown atm

I don't like the feel from Panzer's last post at all.....

I kinda want to bring up the metatron thing again, as it was lost in all of the lurker talk.

So...just to start discussion, There's something bugging me about Vel-Rahn Koon's death. Who is this Alex, that she was supposedly hanging out with. If we find out, I'd bet we'd find our second mafia

This has no truth whatsoever to it, and I consider it rolefishing.

Not to mention his other post, which I already mentioned.

...Did we hit Mafia night 1? Awsome. And...is that a cult Leader? Hopefully, this will go quick enough. It should, at least. There are prolly two other people in the Mafia, but we seem to have a Vig, or at least a serial Killer, killing people off, so with two kills per 24 hour period...well, we'll see, I suppose.

This is along the same lines, I believe he would have continued to only speculate on night if the lurker issue had not arisen.

I think Billy has satisfied my concerns

unvote, vote:Lawrence

I <3 Mert's points

[IH]

scot, why are you so concerned about one vote?

Perhaps because there was no reasoning in the first place? We've all asked it from him.... I don't find it being overdefensive though.

[IH]

Now please let's end this discussion about lurker-hunting, because by now there are no more lurkers I think. And babyjesus, you still didn't give much reasoning behind your votes.

Scummy mcscummer scum trying to distract away from the issue at hand. One of the biggest issues with him is his 'views' on lurkers and lurker hunting. So if we end the discussion, then we end the discussion of the suspicion on you.

[IH]

I wonder......

What if the paranoid converter was town? He probably could have converted not just an SK, but all anti town members into town. Making them paranoid also?

[IH]

I dont really see how figuring out exactly what that role did really changes what we need to do now

To know how many scum we have alive or dead in case we hit a lylo situation? Or for future plans and ow we should hold votes and such? It's extremely important to discuss what that role could have done, one that we probably should have had a little bit yesterday perhaps.

When I get time I think I may do a skimmy reread so I can fit in with the deadlines with this game and such.

[IH]

Panzer, at the end of day 1 you said if LL turned up scum, then I was the play for today. Then out of nowhere you go and vote for mariyta. Why the change of though all of a sudden?

This sounds like scum hopping of a buddy before letting him get lynched...

Vote:Panzer

[IH]

1.I think I misunderstood that statement, but this is an even better reason than I thought.

Panzer saying that clearly means he wasn't really convinced of what he was saying, and just threw it out there. So he comes back, and just makes a vote, which he obviously didn't follow through with that much since he hopped off pretty quick.

2.I'm saying this is a scum claim. Ok, we know we have at least two scum groups, right? Theres a possiblity that Panzer is an SK, part of that scum group, or a survivor. No scum would target him, in hopes that Panzer would target them and protect them.

Essentially, Panzer puts himself at minus one, giving him an excuse to claim.
He claims.
He gets votes off of him.
He's safe at night.

Panzer, WHY do you think Mert is scum? Any logical reasons?

[IH]

Billy, I'm not saying he is a scum martyr, I'm saying it's a scum fake claim to survive. Nobody but maybe a vig is going to kill a martyr, and then probably not. Why? Because they'll want protection also. All Panzer has to do is to claim to have protected someone who is still alive.

Essentially I don't buy his claim. The timing of it sucks enormously, and his self vote is stupid.

[IH]

No he voted himself and then didn't unvote I believe.

[IH]

Mariyta, what are you believing? That he meant self target, and there was nothing unclear about his self vote?

[IH]

I personally think that it would be very hard to make up that role. I do disagree with log though, it is useful. Basically is a poor man's doctor. While he may be sacrificing himself, he would end up helping the town win.

I disagree very strongly. It's a very common role, especially with a cop as a way to stop the cop/doc combo.

Look at the Panzer distraction when NAR replacement was mentioned.

Panzer, why is Mert dirty scum? I second NAR's question.

[IH]

So.... you're going to no lynch?

[IH]

Yeah, but it was likely that with a name like "Paranoid converter" that it was a cult leader.

[IH]

Sorry I havent posted recently, but work has swamped me.

Panzer definitely smells of scum right now and its a bizarre claim. But raj has had some very weird roles in other freaktown games so it could be legit.

The claim is less disturbing to me than the vote jumping that he had been doing up to this point. Thats what is inconsistent with pro town play.

Vote:Logictus

I don't like how he's very uncomittal in this post. Not to mention he seems very suspicious of him, but holds onto his vote. Looks like scum keeping his options open IMO.

[IH]

Since this seems to be coming up again.....

Maybe we have a paranoid cop? "Paranoid converter?"

I'll probably do a reread in a bit and try to add more substance to my posts sometime.

[IH]

It's pretty much a scum with no partners, so linking it to someone else would be useless.

[IH]

I am too... especially since I have a role that basically states that there is....

A what? A town paranoid converter? SK? Cult?

[IH]

I believe I posted after that looking for clarification on why he was jumping around so much with his vote, which is why I was non committal.

I just wasnt convinced he was scum based on his claim and it turns out it was a correct claim and his jumping around just doomed him.

BTW - Sorry for my absence I was traveling and then had to catch up on work, I will be around from now on.

Actually it looked like he claimed based on suspicions from yesterday, and his claim didn't help at all.

One thing that confuses me is the lack of nightkills. Each night has seemed to be one short if we have two scum groups and an SK.

Night One - two deaths (2 scum groups and 1 SK alive): Jack (Paranoid Converter), Vel-Rahn Koon (Internet Mafia)
Night Two - one death (2 scum groups and 1 SK alive, 1 scum group wiped out by night end): Metatron (Internet Mafia)
Night Three - one death (1 scum group and 1 SK alive, 1 scum group wiped out by night end): BillyTwilight (High School Mafia)

It seems to me that players "run over by a car" are the ones killed by an SK, so it begs the question of why nobody was run over on Night Two. If anybody roleblocked somebody (or similar action that would block) on Night Two then it is quite possible that you know who the SK might be (or can at least narrow it down).

We also have the possibility of a doc. Yes I know Panzer was a doc-ish type role, but it may be to compensate things. Also, if there is a roleblocker, it is quite possible that it is scum.

Finally, there is a chance there is a KIT/SK nightkill immune.

[IH]

Yes I got that, but I was just trying to fully explain the possibilities.

(Also, you joined exactly a day before me) <.<;;

[IH]

Mert, a day before. THat means it would have been two days had ou done that <.<;;;

but beside the point.

I believe I posted after that looking for clarification on why he was jumping around so much with his vote, which is why I was non committal.

So how does it excuse it's uncommitalness? It DOESN'T.

[IH]

My role description gave me good reason to believe there was/is an SK. I was hesitant to say anything back when people were discussing whether there was one or not, but now, I'm pretty sure there has to be, and I feel I may be able to clear one member of the town, should I need to

[IH]

It was actually post 223 that I quoted a post from Logictus.

247 was where I expressed my dissatisfaction with Log's answer.

yeah i didnt miss that

all it does is reveal that there is a good chance there is an SK (A pretty good guess of that anyway)

im still just lost on rangers thoughts

So... a good chance there is an SK.

4 scum already dead.......

Unless there are six scum, all that's left is an SK.

[IH]

That seems fine to me, I was just about to suggest that she make the order.

[IH]

May I ask your flavor?

[IH]

*NOTE:I generally consider a Survivor role to be more neutral, and I'm not sure about a survivor that can only win with the town. That means his win condition is modified.

While this may be untrue, USUALLY a survivor wins as long as they make it to endgame (be it scum/SK/Town)

[IH]

I'm Brittany, since I live so far away I am immune from Kills, but I can still get lynched.

I have to post something about survivor everyday or else I can be killed at night.


That was why I asked your flavor.

[IH]

1st, Mariyta is right. NAR is probably the right lynch.

Bleh, I have a bad feeling about Mariyta all of a sudden. It's just one of those horrible possibilities that pop into your head, you know? If she's fake claiming and leading us along we're pretty much screwed.

I'd say if NAR is town, then Log should be our next lynch, only because of the survivor thing. Sounds kind of bastardly for a townie to have to survivor til endgame, and would expect that to be more neutralish and he's trying to not get lynched. Only reason we shouldn't lynch Log tomorrow is if we're in lylo.

Pretty much we don't want to go to the final day with an SK, a town, and a neutral, because they'll bandwagon with the first vote.

[IH]

Vote:NAR

Dangit

[IH]

I'm hammering before the end of Saturday, unless deadline comes before then.

I'll be gone from Sunday-Friday btw.

[IH]

I'd probably be interested in a large theme version. The serial killer threw me off, and I should have known better. At first I thought we were all scum, but then when we started talking, I realized the town converter would change the scum into town, so we weren't all scum, but it was a very scum heavy town.

What would have happened if Mariyta would have waited til like day 3 or 4 to choose? Would she just have automatically won? other than the role being broken, this was a pretty interesting setup.