Mini 424 - Game Over

[kilmenator]

umm... dang...

vote: theshadow

[kilmenator]

Elias-I find it hard to believe that you would not have been able to count that it was three votes on him being that it was right after it, and the fact you acknowledged three was a wagon, yet failed to realize that it was three on theshadow, not really anything serious, but I find it doubtful you missed something that obvious.

[kilmenator]

er, i didnt realize that shadow was at three. the vote count hadnt been updated. so i didnt see any difference between a vote for shadow or OMG.

I did not ignore what you had said, I just found it hard to beleive that you missed another vote added to shadow to make it three when it was right after the vote count. Also, you changed your reason of why you voted OMG instead of shadow, first you said it was because you did not realize he was the wagon and then you said it was because he was away. Which reason was it?

[kilmenator]

unvote, vote kilmenator

obv

because I find Elias's vote shady? Interesting...

actually, if you had read instead of scimmed, kilmenator, you would see that i stated both reasons originally in subsequent posts, and that i meant to say it in the same post, which is what EBWOP means (edit by way of post). since i thought they were both at two, i thought that it didnt matter countwise who i voted for, therefore i voted for OMG based on the second reason, that shadow said he would be back sometime today.

actually, no, I did not miss that part, to me it seems like an afterthought, like, "oh wait... that was a stupid reason for a vote, crap, what can I say now.... ummm.... he is gone, yeah, he IS gone, so that will work... Not anything to be overly anxious about, I havent even moved my vote to you yet, I just found it interesting the way things played out. And your vote generated discussion which is very good for the town, the only people who are scared of discussion are generally non-pro-town players.

[kilmenator]

Elias you did defeintely start conversation, but just because you did that does not mean your actions were not scummy.

[kilmenator]

you want to know why? dont push it =P

I will push, you are voting for no reason at all. You gave no reason for the vote and now... you are saying dont push it. Complete crap IMO. Secondly, I will be quite honest, this game has not gotten nearly enough attention from me, I started a new job that requires many more hours from me, but the pay is better, so I have been focusing on that instead of this. Things seem to be slowing down, so I should be able to be more active as of now.

My opinions on this game.... give me a few to reread then I will post a quick summary with my suspicions.

[kilmenator]

A summary of just three pages is a bit useless when everyone can just go back and reread in about 20 mins or so. Things that stuck out to me were...

stop random voting guys

Javert is scum bandwagon him now

I dont like this post on page one, and then the fact that OMG has put his vote on me for no reason and fails to give reason seems a bit shady to me. I also dont like the idea that he has Javert lined up as the next lynch after me for mere reasons that he annoys him...

Random Vote: The Shadow

Something I think everyone has missed is that Nocmen actually started the first bandwagon, but did not comment at all on the fact that is what he was doing and seems to be laying low now. Not anything serious but definetly someone worth watching.

Checking in. Been out of town for the weekend. Since we've been in business a couple of days, I won't bother random voting. I'll post something tomorrow night, I reckon, when I'm less tired.

The shadow has not posted anything of real content. I did not check the tag as to when this post was made, but I think a post of content is defintely in order from him. Being that this is his only post in this game. Not even a random vote, nothing at all from him.
I also like the last post of the last page, the fact that Barroman has not really added much to the game and yet seems to cast suspicion on Elias without actually saying anything new is noted. At this point, I think scum most likely lies here.

So with all that said, right now, I would like to

vote:Barroman

until I decide that he isnt scum. :p

[kilmenator]

I'm a female just for the record. And could you please explain why you are voting me?

[kilmenator]

kil - why dont you try reading the huge post above where i actually give a full answer, are you honestly telling me you skipped post 54 twice?

see this is why there is no point answering questions - noone reads them, if they do they misinterpret them either deliberately or accidentally.

im not answering any more questions or comments for this game ever from kilmenator.
a) because he/she is scum
b) because he/she is too lazy or stupid to READ what i write before responding

1. I did read the post, but I honestly dont think that is a good enough reason to call me scum, and misrepresentation is part of this game, that is why you need to be clear when posting and post in complete thoughts and sentences.
2. I am not scum, and the fact that you are calling me lazy or stupid (an appeal to emotion) really ticks me off and is sometimes used by scum to get people playing on emotion rather than with logic. It is NOT pro-town play, and should not be tolerated as such. If you are pro-town, chill out with the snide remarks and play the

game

. I honestly have been extremely busy, as I am actually an adult with a career that requires me to do something other than sit in front of the computer pushing refresh all day. I play this game for fun, not to be insulted. I read the post, I just did not think it was a good enough reason for a vote and I defintely dont think that paints me as scummy. You are however, entitled to your opinion however wrong it may be. Also, I would like to know why I shouldnt push you to tell me... it sounded like a threat...I dont like threats...
3. I will be honest, I havent really been focusing much on this game,

[kilmenator]

Meme, maybe I was appealing to emotion, I dont know, I was just stating that I have not contributed much because I have been so busy, I was also frustrated that I was being called for not contributing, but others who haven't posted 1/2 as much as I am are off scott free, just like AC1983 who doesn't see anything to post about or discuss. I do disagree with the sentiment about OMG though, while his statements were childish, they also appeared to be used to envoke emotion from me, which I guess essentially they did, but they were definetly used for emotion, however childish they were.

unovte

, till I can get a clear picture of the game, maybe a reread or something...

[kilmenator]

ok, having reread again, I honestly keep forgetting this game is still in the day 1 phase, which means there really honestly, can not have much to comment on. At this point in the game, I realize I am getting easily frustrated, while I have the time to do all the games I am doing, I dont know if I have the mental compasity to do so :/. I am going to give it a shot though, unless you guys would like me to be replaced.


At this point, right now, I do not see a realyl strong case for anyone, but I dont get good feelings about OMG. First off, he is really almost jumpy, his whole reason for voting me is because of my two posts where I called Elias out about the bandwagon thing. Then he states he will not answer any more questions from me, when I am not even sure what questions I asked. Then he says that Javert should be next just for annoying the hell out of him. I think that is a bit ridiculous. Again, it is Day 1, we really do not have much information, but my gut tells me to go with OMG, so I am gonna.

Vote:OMG

[kilmenator]

OMG, are you asking for a replacement in all of your games? or just this one? and if it is just this game could you tell us why? Is it because of the pressure put on you?

Ana- could you please tell us when you will be having some more input? Because if your life is this busy now, you may never have time to get to this game since it seems it is one of your lowest priorities, if you will not be contributing to this game because of external factors, could you please as for replacement? I think you are at lynch-1, so if it is important, now might be a good time to claim... because you are looking more and more scummy everytime you post.

I must have been neglecting this thread as well, because I cant seem to remember what we lost with the downtime... I cant really seem to remember it...

[kilmenator]

whoa! i thought that was ac's post for some reason. ok, so my mistake about that. im not going to put my vote back on yet though. id like a claim soon.

I'm confused as to whom you are asking to claim. Are you asking AC to claim? If so, what is your reasoning, usually a person only claims at lynch -1, at least that has been my experience. And those asking claims without them being at lynch-1, is generally someone role fishing...

[kilmenator]

Sorry, I thought you were asking AC for a RC, at least that is how that post read to me. I did not understand at all. Thank you for clarifying.

[kilmenator]

Still getting scum vibes from OMG...

[kilmenator]

I am here, but just recently have become very busy. I will try to post tonight. I think the only game I posted in, I posted last night late, and then went to bed. I will however, try to catch up. Give me a day or so...

[kilmenator]

Being emotional and hyper-defensive is a classic scum-tell.

NO IT ISNT

HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU PEOPLE HAVE TO BE WRONG BEFORE YOU LEARN? IT IS LIEK PLAYING WITH MONKEYS THAT HAVE SOMEHOW LEARNED HOW TO TYPE I SWEAR

unvote, vote spectrumvoid

.... i dont care about his role. i am not putting up with this bs any more.

I disagree, while it isnt always a scum tell, it often can be a scum tell. The fact that you are hyperacting over him saying it was a scum tell doesnt look much better either!

The discussion between Javert and Meme is interesting, mostly just talking about getting discussion going and such. The way I read it, it seems like Javert over reacted to meme's little joke about the lynch -1 thingy. I dont have time to do a complete reread right now, with analysis, but I think the people most scummy at this point are

The Shadow-lurker, but could just be inactive
OMG- hyperdefensive, almost opportunistic about his attacks on people, overtly rude
Ancalagon- scummish
Nocmen-scummish
Possibly Barroman scummish... I dont know

Anyway, those are my thoughts thus far, rather lazy and tired at this point to do a complete reread and analysis, but maybe this weekend...

[kilmenator]

Being emotional and hyper-defensive is a classic scum-tell.

(OMG gets mad at kil)

Yelling at people and using bad grammar (I'm pretty sure even someone who's English isn't that great knows how to capitalise I's)doesn't make you town either.

Meant to make that mostly and

FOS:Kil

, but I was distracted.

Ummm... you obviously did not get your tags right, because I dont think I ever said that, I said that making people be emotional can be a scum tell, and I said that being overdefensive can sometimes be a scum tell, but I dont recall saying overdefensiveness was a scum tell.

[kilmenator]

Being emotional and hyper-defensive is a classic scum-tell.

NO IT ISNT

HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU PEOPLE HAVE TO BE WRONG BEFORE YOU LEARN? IT IS LIEK PLAYING WITH MONKEYS THAT HAVE SOMEHOW LEARNED HOW TO TYPE I SWEAR

unvote, vote spectrumvoid

.... i dont care about his role. i am not putting up with this bs any more.

You went from voting me to voting spectrum for what reason?

Yelling at people and using bad grammar (I'm pretty sure even someone who's English isn't that great knows how to capitalise I's)doesn't make you town either.

In other news, I've been grounded for playing scum.net during exam period, I should regain access this weekend.

wtf......... i m nt vting any1 but dis guy til he is ded ok?

This would be fine if you would explain why it is that you think he is scum rather than just call everyone a tard because they think you are scummy and disagree with your opinions. How old are you? Because calling people tard's seems very elementary to me...

unvote: vote kilmenator

So you are not voting anyone else until spectrum is dead, but then hop back on me? (BTW- you still did not use a colon after your vote) But then offer no reasons? Is it because no one else seems to be putting heat on SV and you need to get your vote on someone that you think can be lynched?

I also echo the sentiment that if your play style is so good why is it then that everyone thinks you are scummy? If it appears scummy to the other players in the game wouldnt logic lead you to the conclusion that you should stop acting that way?

Confirm Vote: omg im innocent wtf

[kilmenator]

SV- I dont think speculating on whether or not scum would be so obvious in defending their partner, being that it will just lead to a bunch of WIFOM arguments. Speculating on whether or not someone as scum would do something, sometimes works, but generally just leads to WIFOM...

Also, I do not buy the too scummy to be scum argument. If someone plays scummy, they are not helpful to the town, so they are just a liability, and it is smart to be done with them IMO.

[kilmenator]

Please inform me how I 'overreacted'. Is there a proper way I should react when I think putting somebody at Lynch -1 when I don't feel there has been enough discussion? How I reacted was to get MeMe to explain her vote, and then we had a discussion based largely on whether or not we believed it was 'safe', whether it would encourage 'discussion', and whether that was a good way to go about getting said discussion. Since the particular line of discussion was lost in the server move, I unfortunately cannot link you to my specific posts - but if you could show me how I was overreacting, please do.

First of all, you misrepresented my argument, I never said you over reacted to someone being at lynch -1, I said you over reacted to meme's joke. I just looked back and noticed that meme's joke must have been lost, therefore, I would venture to say that your reaction was as well, leaving me nothing to comment on.

But, I do find this interesting...

I do agree that putting people closer to a lynch often ups the discussion.

My problem here stems from the fact that I have just seen and been in too many games as of late where somebody is put at Lynch -1

, and the day ends with a premature hammer - whether it is done accidentally or purposefully is not entirely relevant. Regardless of whether or not that person turns up to be scum, Day Two often starts with people in the "so what now?" attitude. I try to avoid situations where premature hammers are possible in general.

The problem is that, rarely in a game have I ever seen a premature hammer on someone, especially this early in the game. It is unlikely that scum you hammer so early on day one.

From what I understand of your position, you are willing to vote for noncontributors and such for the

purposes of discussion

– correct me if I am wrong – as gathered from your insistence of "see, the thread dies when Ancalagon isn't at Lynch -1!". I

can

understand that much, though as we have gone over, I don't necessarily agree with that tactic myself in comparison to others.

In other words, our common goal seems to be discussion. But the problem is, a lynch

halts

discussion.

Being willing to

lynch

noncontributors, especially when there are a number of them (i.e. the others are unlikely to have commented on the one lynched) strikes me as unintuitive.

I tend to make sure there is sufficient discussion before I push for a lynch, even in cases where I am very positive somebody is scum.

Furthermore, as I believe I mentioned in the lost data, I think continually pushing on noncontributors instead of focusing on things you find scummy is a good way to stop from taking stances on players.
I, in fact, simply

could not remember

if there had been an additional case against Ancalagon besides which has already been mentioned. I did not personally recall one – but the impression of your posts (and others' posts) seemed to imply that there had been one, so I too was interested in seeing it.

As I have said, and others have said, it is not likely that a hammer will happen this early on day one, it did spark discussion, therefore it was not a bad move, and you reacting to it and making it look "scummish", (which it could be, we dont know of anyone's alignments except ourselves) and continually pointing it out even after the unvotes makes it seem like you are overreacting a bit.

Also [in accordance with what I assume will be most players in this game], I believe that things such as 'overreactions', 'hyperdefensiveness', 'being overly emotional' etc. should all be taken with a grain of salt. You need to consider the context. Being emotional neither makes one town nor does it make one scum. It may, however, be a slight indicator on alignment for

particular players

. I am getting the feeling that omg_im_innocent_wtf's tone and yelling does not make him scum... but it certainly does not make him any more likely to be

town

simply because he has acted similarly in other games.

This just struck me as a way to discredit the argument for overdefensiveness, and the fact that it came after what you percieved as someone calling you over defensive, just gives me scum vibes.

There is firstly the "umm... dang" comment at the beginning of the game for when the town was informed we had lost a Cop, which from what I understand, is a slight scumtell. Townspeople should just buck up and deal with it, whereas scum will likely think they will be able to feign sadness or shock when they are inwardly very pleased.

First of all, you have no idea what the dang comment was... I do not remember exactly, but I think it might have been along the lines of, "Dang, I forgot I was in this game too" and I should vote... Also, being upset that a power role was lynched is not a scum tell. It is a stupid idea that only peopel feigning sympathy use it, and that is simply not true. At this point, I find it interesting that you mentioned the fact that I said something about the cop being dead, but you fail to mention Barroman, who directly says about the cop, and whodid so like two posts before me mentioned it.

[bAs I mentioned before [actually, these comment appear to have been lost in the server move – bah], kilmenator's interaction with Elias_the_thief struck me as very Nurse-like (to use the analogy I employed before). I'll demonstrate again:

actually, no, I did not miss that part, to me it seems like an afterthought, like, "oh wait... that was a stupid reason for a vote, crap, what can I say now.... ummm.... he is gone, yeah, he IS gone, so that will work... Not anything to be overly anxious about, I havent even moved my vote to you yet, I just found it interesting the way things played out.

And your vote generated discussion which is very good for the town, the only people who are scared of discussion are generally non-pro-town players.

Portion highlighted. This just seems like trying to comfort somebody when you are actually planning to stick them with a needle. I just keep getting this same feel whenever I read this particular post.

I already explained this post once before, check it out...There was nothing wrong with stating that it created discussion, discussion IS good for the town, you of all people who keep saying that, should agree not find it scummy. Plus, if I were comforting him before I was goign to stick him, why then did I NEVER VOTE him?

Then there is the entire "emotional appeal" post, which kilmenator still gets a few negative points for. Post [94], as I believe I also mentioned in the server move, reads to me like somebody trying to slip back into obscurity for a short while due to people beginning to pay attention to her. Granted she returns by [105], so that seems to undermine that theory, but at the same time she goes out of her way to emphasize that she hasn't been paying much attention to the game (which has basically become her all-purpose comment), and that she is becoming "easily frustrated", which is more than understandable on its face,

but I can't help but wonder if it is more like a peremptory maneuver such that if anybody tries to call her emotional again, she will simply refer them back to that comment.

The appeal to emotion thing was no big deal, I also resent the fact that you say that my all purpose comment has been that "I have not been paying enough attention to this game. And I do become easily frustrated. And the underlined part is complete WIFOM. I have never referred back to the comment, nor did I intend to.

This particular comment seems a little bit like an attempt at entrapment. omg_im_innocent_wtf indeed voted spectrumvoid along with the comment "I don't care about his role. I am not putting up with this bs any more" – but this is not equivalent to saying "

he won't vote anybody else until spectrumvoid is dead

". But even if that

were

the case, there would only be two things he could do:

1.) Stubbornly keep his vote on spectrumvoid, which I am fairly confident would have been greeted by such things as "not considering changing your vote is not helpful to the town, so it is scummy"; or
2.) Change his vote (or agree to unvote), which Kilmenator in this post tries to characterize as being inconsistent and scummy.

I would personally prefer somebody to still be willing to change their vote (ala option 2) if they actually did say they would "not be changing their vote". And seeing as omg_im_innocent_wtf was not that extreme in the first place, Kilmenator's post here strikes me as off.

First of all, OMG actually did say that he would ntot vote anyone else until SV was dead, and secondly it was inconsistent and scummy, he shouldnt have said something that he did not intend to do.
And no, I am not in favor of policy lynches, but I do think that if people play scummy, then they should be treated as scum. We should not throw out the argument, that "if they were scum they wouldnt have done that" because 1. it is pure BS and 2. it creates an environment that people can use WIFOM out the wazoo. I vote for people who I find scummy and who act scummy, I do not just go in and vote IH everytime, because he is always scum

Sorry for the long post, it took me about 1 and 1/2 hours to construct this stupid thing, but I saw no other way to discuss and refute arguments.

[kilmenator]

QUICK WAGON KILMENATOR I CANT BE LYNCHED IM A POWER ROLE AS ALWAYS

First of all, that was really stupid to claim like that, and you might want to be sure that I am not a power role before pushing that I get lynched at deadline. And if the case was that you wanted to just pick someone else to get lynched in place of you, dont you think you should get on another bandwagon instead of starting another one?

Meme, I would be up for a the shadow lynch, being that if he has a power role, it wont get used tonight, and the fact that he has been out for over a month, and the fact that we do not even have any discussion. It would be smarter to lynch the shadow, instead of someone who is contributing and who we can actually get a read on. We will be taking a chance that the shadow is a power role, but we are just as likely to hit a power role if we randomly lynch someone else. And since we do not have a clear picture of who to lynch today at this point, I would say that the shadow, would be a good lynch. That is my opinion on that whole idea.

[kilmenator]

ps. I asked for an extension as well.

[kilmenator]

ah forget it ill just claim, i kinda want to die tonight and it will at least guarantee the cop another peek.

IM THE DOCTOR.

unvote

do what you guys want.......

You have to be kidding me. Why the heck would you have claimed doc right now!?? Explanation please OMG and

unvote.

[kilmenator]

If omg were not the claimed doc I would be all about lynching him. I am still not entirely convinced of his innocence, but at this point I do not have a clear suspect in mind other than omg. I do not think a no lynch is the way to go at all. A no lynch is bad for the town, so with deadline looming we need to find someone that we can agree on and lynch them. I will spend some time tonight looking over this and all my other games, so I will hopefully post some ideas later. Until then,

unvote:

if I havent already.

[kilmenator]

I will be avoiding you in future, but I'm stuck with you for now and am embarrassed at letting myself respond to you in a way that mirrored your own juvenility.

I will clarify for the others in the game, though. I do not enjoy playing with anyone who respects neither this fantastic game of mafia nor their fellow players -- they make this a "grit your teeth and get through it" chore rather than a fun diversion for the mind. This site used to be a place for intelligent people to play an intelligent game. If more of us agreed to stop putting up with ruiners who favor a "playstyle" over simple "play," I think we could restore it to such a place.

I completely agree with this sentiment meme, and I hope I am in the intelligent group, at least that is how I hope I play.

[kilmenator]

Claimed RB, isnt it just as likely that you could be a scum roleblocker, that has seemingly become a more common role, at least it seems that way to me. I am not entirely sure I buy the claim, but am willing to back off for now. It still is day 1, and at this point we are pretty bad off because we have two claimed power roles outed. Deadline is soon, so we need to come to some sort of conclusion soon. I would be willing to vote ac1983, even though he is claimed power role because of his play thus far, and the fact that there is absolutely no read on him up until his last post, but yet the only person he finds scummy is barroman, but doesnt feel it is strong enough to vote him. That is about all I have right now...

[kilmenator]

i guess we gotta get someone to a lynch before deadline.

unvote:, vote:anac

[kilmenator]

Still around, something to come later, only I dont know how much later... sorry...

[kilmenator]

Hey guys, like I said I am here, but I dont really have time for much. I havent even really checked in here, because I am getting some pretty heavy fire elsewhere in the forum and have been trying to defend myself there. So... the bandwagon on me was quite suspicious, the people voting me are voting me because I voted to kill scum, I voted because we were at deadline, I did not know for sure who scum was, I just put my vote out there on the person with the most votes because deadline was so close.

i guess we gotta get someone to a lynch before deadline.

unvote:, vote:anac

To-Javerts vote because of the self admitted rather weak connection with ana, Do you not think that Ana would have tried to make connections between himself and others (innocents and scum alike) in the thread, being that he was scum and would try to take them (innocents) down with him?

To- Meme why do you think I should be the current focus? Mind elaborating?

The only pressure I can apply is with my vote so let here more from Kil...

Vote: Kilmenator

What about ACfan who hasnt posted either? Why not pressure him?

And to those who are now pressuring Nocmen, take a look at our posts and see that all along we have taken flak off of each other, that would show you that we both think each other are innocent, putting pressure on us to claim is not a wise idea for the town at this point, so can we just leave it that Nocmen and I are innocent and go after someone else? Maybe Elias or Sweenytodd or Acfan?

[kilmenator]

I will not vote Kilmenator, due to I have reasonable proof that lynching her would be lynching a pro-town role.

fos:nocmen

Secret information ≠ good idea. if you have reasonable proof, then share it with us.

I thought you wouldnt be able to be around for a while? and what about the posts you listed, what is scummy about them?

Vote:ac1983fan

I want to hear more from him instead of intentional lurking and non contributing.

[kilmenator]

Basically, this is one of the first times, I have been the role that I am. When I was seeking advice from another player (not in-game) they said it might be smart to distance somewhat from my partner as once I am confirmed innocent then another person is autmattically confirmed, and if I make it obvious who my partner is then they could be the next kill. Being that I have said all of this, I might as well claim as anyone who has played any amount of time will know my role and my partner. So I am a mason and you obviously know my partner.

[kilmenator]

We are both guarnteed innocent, the mod actually messaged us to tell us that, (at least he did me). He said we are not like the evil twin, we are both innocent. He said that he had forgotten about the mason evil twin thing and apologized for not adding it to our PM before.

[kilmenator]

I would be fine with a little pressure on Elias, give me some time to generate some of my own, but if I remember correctly, I was suspicious of him earlier... more to come hopefully later today...

[kilmenator]

Alright, after a reread, I am going to

vote: Elias

, He seems to be the most scummy to me right now, there wasnt really anything huge, it was just a bunch of little things. At this point, we have three roles out, I think it might be good to mass claim, (maybe) I am not totally set on this, but would like to however throw out the possibility.

[kilmenator]

I think my vote on Elias was more of a gut feeling and the way he comes across in the game, it almost seems like he is to willing to discuss, but also be noncomittal at that same time, but tomorrow I will try to make a more concrete list of reasons why...

[kilmenator]

wow, flaming action here... still happy with my vote on Elias...

[kilmenator]

ah what the heck, Barro has been here and yet has not posted, and hasnt been peachy clean, well no one has, but why not... lets take a chance

Unvote, Vote:Barroman

I think that is a hammer...

[kilmenator]

*picks nose and wipes it on fellow players*

[kilmenator]

I didnt say I had boogers on my finger...

I <3 Meme cause she has a sense of humor!

[kilmenator]

Bah...GO TOWN