Mini 1543--Natirasha's On Parole!(Game Over)

[Selkies]

/confirm

hi guys

[Selkies]

The number of votes you influence is the real test of importance. p sure we're going to own that metric.

[Selkies]

The number of votes you influence is the real test of importance. p sure

we're

going to own that metric.

wait. aren't you a hydra?

Did you think that was a royal we?

[Selkies]

Cabd is my favorite scumbuddy of all time!

[Selkies]

I've had enough of drawing scum with ffery. I'd bus her d1 for towncred.

Totally expecting this to happen (much more emphatically) next time.

[Selkies]

/confirm

[Selkies]

oh wait derp ok

VOTE: cabd "scumfuck"

[Selkies]

I think that's 7, time to

bus

sort selkies.

VOTE: selkies

Sorry, you're going to have to work for a town read.

[Selkies]

Oh that's orcinus? I get to take out my frustration at you being shit in 1531 then.

can we just start our relationship over or something

[Selkies]

Sorry, I have at least two aces up my sleeve that both say I don't.

Marked cards.

[Selkies]

VOTE: katsuki

-orci

[Selkies]

IF I tunnel you for most of day one and make you withdraw into your shell until you come out for MYLO and it's too late again, do I get a runner up prize?

P-edit
VOTE: selkies

1v1 me nob

Pedit yeah we are get with the program

[Selkies]

IF I tunnel you for most of day one and make you withdraw into your shell until you come out for MYLO and it's too late again, do I get a runner up prize?

Runner up is a nicer name for loser.

[Selkies]

vote katsuki guys

[Selkies]

jumping on the easy lynches already? that didn't take long.

[Selkies]

jumping on the easy lynches already? that didn't take long.

Speak for yourself.

[Selkies]

jumping on the easy lynches already? that didn't take long.

Speak for yourself.

dude im town this game

[Selkies]

yeah, watch:

VOTE: ssk

[Selkies]

jumping on the easy lynches already? that didn't take long.

Speak for yourself.

dude im town this game

And apparently an easy lynch. :/

[Selkies]

They shouldn't be classifying people into easy votes unless they are scum.

why is that?

[Selkies]

jumping on the easy lynches already? that didn't take long.

Speak for yourself.

dude im town this game

And apparently an easy lynch. :/

I swear to god I

will

vote you.

[Selkies]

They shouldn't be classifying people into easy votes unless they are scum.

why is that?

[Selkies]

Lol. Look at the player list, SSK. Then tell me that if ffery and I tag teamed you, you wouldn't be an easy lynch.

Nope. I don't I would be. Go ahead and try though.

Pedit: SHH FFERY I RESPOND ONE AT A TIME. WAIT YOUR TURN

That was Orci.

[Selkies]

FUcking lol. Do it, ffery. Lynch his sorry ass before he pulls a 165 and gets vigged.

What happened in 165?
Why should I be getting vigged?

He's talking about Orci. Who got vigged on night 3 because the vig was terrible.

[Selkies]

that's not fery dumbfuck

Pedit: ssk, what makes you think i had to dwell on the question of "is ssk a easy lynch" for more than a second

[Selkies]

FUcking lol. Do it, ffery. Lynch his sorry ass before he pulls a 165 and gets vigged.

However I didn't think you'd mix up Selkies-heads.

[Selkies]

Lol. Look at the player list, SSK. Then tell me that if ffery and I tag teamed you, you wouldn't be an easy lynch.

Nope. I don't I would be. Go ahead and try though.

Pedit: SHH FFERY I RESPOND ONE AT A TIME. WAIT YOUR TURN

That was Orci.

Well, this is why you should sign.

Pedit:
Orcinus, why am I an easy lynch? Answer me that.

lynched d1 as bodyguard gg

[Selkies]

Also I now assume that you've conceded or dropped your original line of argument, which is that town have no reason to consider who's weak. Is this true?

[Selkies]

Yes because i'd never do it to taunt either of you.

Nice recover, but I'm not buying it.

[Selkies]

Also I now assume that you've conceded or dropped your original line of argument, which is that town have no reason to consider who's weak. Is this true?

I haven't dropped it. I still fully believe it. You dropped it.

So respond to it then, and not switch lines

[Selkies]

Also I now assume that you've conceded or dropped your original line of argument, which is that town have no reason to consider who's weak. Is this true?

I haven't dropped it. I still fully believe it. You dropped it.

I never picked it up.

[Selkies]

And how the fuck did I drop it when I'm the one who bought it back up like you don't even make sense

Pedit@ssk: wooooooooosh see this is why i think you're a weak player

[Selkies]

that's not fery dumbfuck

Pedit: ssk, what makes you think i had to dwell on the question of "is ssk a easy lynch" for more than a second

Lol. Look at the player list, SSK. Then tell me that if ffery and I tag teamed you, you wouldn't be an easy lynch.

Nope. I don't I would be. Go ahead and try though.

Pedit: SHH FFERY I RESPOND ONE AT A TIME. WAIT YOUR TURN

That was Orci.

Well, this is why you should sign.

Pedit:
Orcinus, why am I an easy lynch? Answer me that.

lynched d1 as bodyguard gg

Pedit lol

[Selkies]

Vote: Selkies

Flattery will get you nowhere.

[Selkies]

And how the fuck did I drop it when I'm the one who bought it back up like you don't even make sense

Pedit@ssk: wooooooooosh see this is why i think you're a weak player

ur a weak playr

MafiaSSK who was Anise Tatlin, the Town-Aligned 1-Shot Bulletproof Bodyguard, has been lynched day one.

Pedit@ cabd: yeah actually i was just talking to fery about it. What do you make of that?

[Selkies]

Yes because i'd never do it to taunt either of you.

Nice recover, but I'm not buying it.

You're welcome to buy lead instead.

That's usually how it goes. :/

P-edit: I think SSK has hit more posts in this game than in msot of his completed games already.

inorite? I think this is the start of a beautiful friendship we're watching.

[Selkies]

Yes because i'd never do it to taunt either of you.

Nice recover, but I'm not buying it.

You're welcome to buy lead instead.


P-edit: I think SSK has hit more posts in this game than in msot of his completed games already.

Yeah, I'm not lurking in this game. Well, I mean, if you mean the 8 or so hours I sleep, then that could be considered lurking, but this game, no lurking otherwise.

I had a feeling that if ever there's a game where you don't lurk like a boss, it's a Nati-modded game.

[Selkies]

Scum found. And I have a case!

hi guys.

Look at this post.
Just look at it!

The abomination! The damnation! The blasphemy!
This post, ladies and maidens, is a scumpost that reeks the foul odor of scuminess!

hi

Oh, look at this foul aberrant buddying!
And it's only page 1!
With this post only, I can clearly see fery, behind the monitor, literally trembling with fear, hoping this subtle buddying attempt would grant her a "obvtown" status!
Not a chance, lady!

guy

Among these seemingly friendly post lurks the totally scum-motivated damneous post!

If you translate "guy" to Arabic via the sacred Google Translate, you can see that "تنكر" is one of the result.
And guess what that mean?
"deny, disguise, masquerade, disavow, renounce"

Do not fall for this posts, my maids and maidens, for she is secretly mocking us and backstabbing us, just like that!
With this, we can already lucidly imagine her evil mind and dexterous and sly those damned typing fingers!

For we can not stand for this total wretchedness, we must purge this thread with fire!

(Besides, it's

morph the cat.

selkies.)

You get a little bit of reflected gif-love for posting my favorite case ever.

[Selkies]

for once, I didn't slip first.

[Selkies]

Cabd, do you have any serious reasons for your selkies vote?

Nope!

Wanna move your vote then?

This post interests me.

[Selkies]

Cabd, do you have any serious reasons for your selkies vote?

Nope!

Wanna move your vote then?

This post interests me.

I'd personally find it great if Cabd could just come up with some real reasons for voting you for being scum, because you are scum.

I'm pretty sure you've had the pleasure of an RVS phase with Orci before.

[Selkies]

Cabd, do you have any serious reasons for your selkies vote?

Nope!

Wanna move your vote then?

This post interests me.

I'd personally find it great if Cabd could just come up with some real reasons for voting you for being scum, because you are scum.

what's your "case" again?

[Selkies]

Nope!

then wanna come up with reasons for voting selkies?
Or explain how we're in RVS?

I'm voting them because ffery is in that hydra. I'm not going to srs vote until I damn well feel I'm ready to. Plus, this is just a circlejerk of us three, which even if somehow both you and selkies were scum, still means there's at least one more out there.

I think we've scared everyone else away. :/

[Selkies]

How good do you think ffery's scum game is?

One can plot it as a function of

(strength) = (other head) * (scum partners) 
                 _________________________________
                   (Scary People who can peg her)

This is actually pretty accurate IMO. There are some outliers.

[Selkies]

what's your "case" again?

Orcinus sorted me as a weak player. Town shouldn't be thinking of players as weak or strong.

surprisingly, we've had this convo. which you stopped responding to.

They shouldn't be classifying people into easy votes unless they are scum.

why is that?

Because you've already thought about who are the weak ones here. You have no reason to do so if you are town.

that's not fery dumbfuck

Pedit: ssk, what makes you think i had to dwell on the question of "is ssk a easy lynch" for more than a second

Pedit: lol he ran

[Selkies]

Seriously, you guys are playing achingly pro-scum so far, regardless of your actual alignment. It's basically 6 pages of meaningless clutter.

I feel like if you can catch the tones of people in the beginning of the game, you can get some good player-connection analysis later in the game.

I don't see why meaningless clutter is the right milieu for reading tone/player-connection. It is literally the easiest shit to fake as scum. Wouldn't it be more effective to create difficult situations for the scum to respond naturally to as quickly as possible?

I always get at least a couple of good reads that stand the test of time during the first 10 or so pages of a game if the game is moving fast. Cabd utilizes the early chaos pretty well, too, regardless of alignment.

[Selkies]

That's not relevant. Your argument was that I am scum because I'm considering who is and isn't a easy lynch. Ergo, whether you are an easy lynch or not is irrelevant to that argument. Which is why I said that you dropped that line of reasoning.

Which still leaves the question of why considering people easy or hard lynches is scummy :/

[Selkies]

It scares me to be thinking this so early, but SSK looks pretty town.

[Selkies]

but it felt much more purposeful back then

Do you feel like we've been wasting our time the past 6 pages then? Because I'd beg to differ.

[Selkies]

Also VOTE: katsuki

[Selkies]

Selkies, I've played with you guys before, right? I remember your name (ffery and orci both), although it might have been from reading your games. I can't remember exactly. That said, I do remember your "chaotic" style and I remember liking it, but it felt much more purposeful back then. I think that's the difference I'm noting here.

I don't remember you from a Selkies game, but there have only been about 4 I think. I scanned your list of threads and the only game I played is HunterxHunterx. Were you in that game? I don't remember you. I was in the Squared hydra, but had to cut my usual amount of posting way back because buldermar was pissing people off with his posting rate/style.

I get comments that my early to mid day 1 is low-content and high volume, but I get useful stuff for reads from the interactions.

[Selkies]

I think you can cut out pages 2-5 and we'd have just as much information as we have now. I'm not saying it was all useless, maybe there is something there, but personally I find other sorts of posts more useful.

What have you learned from those pages that I'm missing?

I'll answer this question later.

[Selkies]

Oh right, HunterxHunter. I was in a hydra with F-16 for that game. I really liked buldermar's posting actually, lol.

Carbon Fiber. Hi.

[Selkies]

It scares me to be thinking this so early, but SSK looks pretty town.

I agree.

For instance,fourtrouble, it's easy for you to come in here and say "I agree", but getting a good solid read 1 hour into the game was a result of that aggressive RVS phrase.

Pedit: oh look a new challenger approaches

VOTE: muffin

[Selkies]

because i actually agree with katsuki's sentiments towards rule 6 and I don't think it's scummy in and of itself.

also muffin is actually here and i assume he wants to talk to me!

[Selkies]

katsuki is town, foutrouble is town, mafiassk is maybe town, selkies is scum

It's not nice to mess with a meta player this way. :/

[Selkies]

That's not relevant. Your argument was that I am scum because I'm considering who is and isn't a easy lynch. Ergo, whether you are an easy lynch or not is irrelevant to that argument. Which is why I said that you dropped that line of reasoning.

Which still leaves the question of why considering people easy or hard lynches is scummy :/

Eh. I guess it does get a bit WIFOM-y, because I guess there are some advantages for town looking at things like that.

keep going, because this response sucked.

[Selkies]

Ok

So why am I scum, then?

[Selkies]

Ok

So why am I scum, then?

Honestly? Because gut and there not being anyone else I have a legitimate scum read on.

This reminds me of the good old days.

[Selkies]

Ok

So why am I scum, then?

Honestly? Because gut and there not being anyone else I have a legitimate scum read on.

Nice. Well done, chap.

Come vote muffin with me. People don't actually get to slap down a scumread on me and then not push that wagon. That's not how this works.

[Selkies]

also muffin is actually here and i assume he wants to talk to me!

People don't actually get to slap down a scumread on me and then not push that wagon. That's not how this works.

Hey. You.

[Selkies]

Ok

So why am I scum, then?

Honestly? Because gut and there not being anyone else I have a legitimate scum read on.

This reminds me of the good old days.

The good old days?

The early Selkies games. Orcinus moves the vote around like a force of nature. I reap the data and keep my diplomat hat handy.

[Selkies]

Vote: zMuffin

And also, what? Weren't you just saying how Katsuki was definitely scum?

Sure, but zMuffin is here (or was a second ago) and Katsuki isn't. I'm not gonna just let my vote sit on someone, waiting for shit to happen.

But what if Katsuki magically appears while you're gone? Then there'll be less pressure on him!

As a general rule, pressure from a vote dissipates once you say the word "pressure" with regards to the vote

Get with the program and vote muffin.

So. . . I'm going to guess MafiaSSK and FourTrouble are town.

So. . .

[VOTE: zMuffin]

Let's talk about this. What do you think of me and cabd?

[Selkies]

People

not named cabd

don't actually get to slap down a scumread on me and then not push that wagon. That's not how this works.

FTFY

It's amazing how often I forget that you're actually a person and not just an annoying bot.

Pedit: Oh, glorious MafiaSSK, "I am known to lurk at times. I am known to be anti-town. I am known for policy lynches. So yeah.", depart unto us more holy advice with which to lynch the wretched scum

[Selkies]

Anywho back to this game, Muffin is town and the three votes are dumb.

How so?

[Selkies]

scum care more about rules that hurt them than town

again, baseless assertion

but let's suppose this is true

do you agree that scum care about their image? or at least are more conscious of what they're posting? if they are, then posting something that scum are more likely to care about seems kinda contradictory to this notion

and no, this isn't WIFOM. this is common sense

also muffin is actually here and i assume he wants to talk to me!

People don't actually get to slap down a scumread on me and then not push that wagon. That's not how this works.

Hey. You.

just lynch him guys

[Selkies]

scum care more about rules that hurt them than town

again, baseless assertion

but let's suppose this is true

do you agree that scum care about their image? or at least are more conscious of what they're posting? if they are, then posting something that scum are more likely to care about seems kinda contradictory to this notion

and no, this isn't WIFOM. this is common sense

I agree. I think scum would be far more likely to PM the mod and ask wtf than comment about it in the game thread.

Cabd I'm not going to read your offisite games tonight but I'm curious if scum commented on the rule in the game threads.

[Selkies]

camps, we haz them.

[Selkies]

People

not named cabd

don't actually get to slap down a scumread on me and then not push that wagon. That's not how this works.

FTFY

It's amazing how often I forget that you're actually a person and not just an annoying bot.

Pedit: Oh, glorious MafiaSSK, "I am known to lurk at times. I am known to be anti-town. I am known for policy lynches. So yeah.", depart unto us more holy advice with which to lynch the wretched scum

Wait, when did I say that?
And why can't my advice be treated as equal here?

It's on your damn wiki page, Mr. "How-Dare-You-Call-Me-An-Easy-Lynch"

I might consider it if you had a smidgeon of reasoning behind it. But it doesn't, much like your vote on me. For, uh, what was it again? Oh right. Nothing.

Muffin's popped in, dropped a few scum reads, refused to give any reasoning when prompted multiple times, and posted a bunch of crap. "His activity" is underwhelming because he's presumably in-thread and refusing to interact with his scumreads or push anything. "His content" is shit.

[Selkies]

Cabd I'm not going to read your offisite games tonight but I'm curious if scum commented on the rule in the game threads.

No, they used their

daytalk private thread

Imagine that.

[Selkies]

hey cabd you wanna vote muffin now

[Selkies]

Seems like a decent vote, either him, Selkies, or Katsuki. They seem the most likely tk be scum. Do you have a better idea?

rereading, the inclusion of and only of all 3 wagons disturbs me like fuck.

[Selkies]

camps, we haz them.

I don't think we'll ever be in the same camp.

I'm not so sure about that.

[Selkies]

heh

[Selkies]

hey cabd you wanna vote muffin now

The tenacity of your read and or push on him is actually giving me confusion and off notes to the tune of "Let's do exactly the opposite of what we did as scum in 1531" so nope. I can't believe I have to tell YOUR HYDRA, of all things, that I'll vote when I'm damn well ready.

mercurial and tenacious. The borkgame was a hell of a hydra 101 class.

[Selkies]

goodfather probs town.

Maybe so.

What are you thinking about SSK?

[Selkies]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aronis

Give Aronis a break, Cabd. I'm pretty sure they're new.

Does being new make a player less likely to be scum?

I mean I come form a homesite where the average player age is 14, man. I know a thing or two about newer players.

gotta catch em all

if you know what i mean

i mean catching scum

Muffin's popped in, dropped a few scum reads, refused to give any reasoning when prompted multiple times, and posted a bunch of crap. "His activity" is underwhelming because he's presumably in-thread and refusing to interact with his scumreads or push anything. "His content" is shit.

i only "dropped" one scum read
why do you think i'm more likely to refuse to give reasoning as scum?
and my activity is what my activity is. i'm reading other games, not sitting here f5ing this thread.

no, you dropped a few reads though

idk man reasoning is sometimes important

also you've avoided me for about 4 pages despite being inthread. what's up with that, scared?

Pedit what the shit is an ageist

[Selkies]

It's like there's a shadow-morph in the thread.

[Selkies]

So. . . I'm going to guess MafiaSSK and FourTrouble are town.

So. . .

[VOTE: zMuffin]

So how about you describe your reason?

Seems like a decent vote, either him, Selkies, or Katsuki. They seem the most likely tk be scum. Do you have a better idea?

Why are muffin, selkie and I scum?

Ignore my #252.

I'm on pg7 i think or something, will continue later.

for now

UNVOTE VOTE SELKIE

I love the hypocrisy here. It's so great.

[Selkies]

SO! Since I've got a slew of anti-town no-reason-for-voting players, I'll go with the person who just seems to be aping other people's arguments without producing anything unique to support their votes.

Incidentally, you're quite welcome for getting the game out of RVS and into a fairly good position within 3 hours of starting, with decent amount of content from everyone.

[Selkies]

But even if you believe that, how can you believe that I haven't produced anything unique? I have 73 posts, literally greater than a quarter of the game's posts, and you're saying I have produced NOTHING unique?

Yes.

[Selkies]

Don't mind orcinus. His shins are a little sore.

[Selkies]

I love the hypocrisy here. It's so great.

do you think he's scum? or what was the point of this post?

It was a chance for him to resolve the hypocrisy. But it flew right over his head so that didnt work.

I would ask what hypocrisy, except that there was none at all.

i'm pretty sure the implication is that you're being hypocritical by not explaining while asking someone else for an explanation (which doesn't make sense anyway, but *shrug*)

Ooh. Do tell

[Selkies]

I did answer that question. Notice the word "or" there.

And actually no. Lets say for instance person A steals an apple. Person B asks person A why he stole the apple, while stealing the apple himself. Idk that seems hypocritical, how bout you

[Selkies]

In case you haven't noticed, whether or not person A admits to stealing the apple is irrelevant

Pedit: Hi it seems like it's in season for scum reading selkies for no discernible reason. Its ok there's a season like that for every game. So talk to me and explain what's up

[Selkies]

In regards to Selkies, pointing out who might be an easy lynch isn't good for the town. Even if you are town, you're giving information to uncreative scum about who would be a good target to pile on, and if enough people declare so-and-so to be an easy lynch, people are going to start seeing scum in them just because people are lazy

I'm not the head who made the observation out loud, but in many games players are familiar enough with each other to know who are likely lynchbait, who are bus-candidates if they are scum, etc. One of the places I look for scum is on the "easy lynch" wagons.

[Selkies]

Bert! <3

[Selkies]

P-edit: Hi Selkies we have never met! <33333333 You should policy lynch me.

Have you never played with Orcinus before?

[Selkies]

In regards to Selkies, pointing out who might be an easy lynch isn't good for the town. Even if you are town, you're giving information to uncreative scum about who would be a good target to pile on, and if enough people declare so-and-so to be an easy lynch, people are going to start seeing scum in them just because people are lazy

I'm not the head who made the observation out loud, but in many games players are familiar enough with each other to know who are likely lynchbait, who are bus-candidates if they are scum, etc. One of the places I look for scum is on the "easy lynch" wagons.

Why do you think scum would be found on the easy lynch wagon? When I think of people who would be targetted for easy lynches, I think of new players who have no idea what they're doing but are trying to keep up with people posting text walls, so they rack their brains and end up with bs, which gets them targetted pretty easily. Not that new players can't be scum, but I think new player scum tend to be quiet and stay under the radar and try to get as little attention as possible.

Which is why I think we need to pay attention to Aronis, and also to Mafiassk for saying we should leave him alone just because he's new, because if Aronis is scum, that's exactly what we should do if we want to let him keep slipping and scumming along

I think we may be laboring under different ideas about what an easy lynch is.

[Selkies]

What the hell happened to this game?

[Selkies]

We have 90 posts in this game, bert. I am shocked that the only post that made it into your readthrough was us reaching out to muffin.

Incidentally, what kind of stamp should we see muffin putting on the game?

[Selkies]

oh you mean in my post? does this mean you think katsuki is town?

It does not mean that I think katsuki is town

I have not expressed or implied what I think of katsuki's alignment anywhere.

Is there a reason that you are trying to suggest that I have?

[Selkies]

This is pretty much what he did in my past VisCon 1523, with regard to muffin. His reads were actually pretty solid in that game.

I kinda lost interest because the quantity was so large. In most of the game, it felt like it was mostly 3-4 players talking while a few chimed in every once in a long while.

That, and most of your posts seemed to be you quoting a big quote and making a one-liner comment. I really don't have much to say here. <3

EBWOP: I mean the gut reads, unless you're saying something else about him is scummy, of which I would respond with the fact that I don't know what to look for in him as scum. Never seen him as scum. I read him as scum for the entirety of 1523, as he failed to explain things and also thought everything I did was extremely scummy no matter what I tried. Also, sometimes he did not make sense at all. I roleblocked him twice in that game at night thinking he was scum.

Lastly, I don't know your hydra partner's style, unless Skype Mafia counts!

I don't know how irked I should be about your treatment of muffin. You don't have meta with him aside from one town game, and yet you say stuff that hedges on defense like "aww why'd you vote muffin man?? he's the muffin man". What's your read on muffin right now, null or town?

Who do you think we should be looking at today (aside from fourtrouble)?

Talk to me about Aronis.

Also, I'm assuming that you think you're talking to fery. You're not.

[Selkies]

you are not very good at this game are you :/

[Selkies]

Posts apparently are mostly Orc, and he's completely null. Hopefully Ffery takes charge soon.

Nah. I've made about half the posts at a guess.

[Selkies]

And Bert, I haven't played mafia in a few years, so anything out of the norm is probably just me resharpening my rusty tools. That's also the reason why everyone seems to know each other already except for me.

I can explain what I mean, and I think orcinus and I have similar opinions about what makes someone easily lynchable: engaging in behaviors that are commonly considered anti-town, or having a reputation for the same. Lurking, for instance, is a big one. My strategy is to keep a close eye on players who go after easy lynches early.

[Selkies]

It does not mean that I think katsuki is town

I have not expressed or implied what I think of katsuki's alignment anywhere.

Is there a reason that you are trying to suggest that I have?

hahaha, you are scum, aren't you?

Are you intentionally tweaking my scum-zmuffin model?

[Selkies]

From our first game as a hydra:

Subject: Micro 158: borkgame (Game Over)

I like, I like.

Talk to me about the clusterfuck that is selkies.

In that game, I was townreading Svenskt and Orcinus was scumreading him. After a few pages, we sorted ourselves out and put him in the null pile until we could agree on a read, but I think it was day 2 before agreement actually happened.

We became a lot less dissonant in later games, but due to a huge difference in time zones (GMT-8 vs GMT+15) our synchs are somewhat asynchronous.

[Selkies]

(1) Muffin-lean-town

talk to me about why

ft whats your opinion about muffin

and why ross

[Selkies]

Ross is underwhelming. There's nothing of importance in his ISO. His interaction with fery was a miss, but that's not particularly scum indicative I don't think?

calling rule 6 "infamous" in 291 was weird

[Selkies]

Haven't detailed in anyone yet! But quick iso gives me a feeling that cabd or selkies are not town!
for now,

vote:selkies

i don't like hydras anyway!

This nonsense, no-reason voting from you, katsuki, and muffin is getting really,

really

old.

Out of the people I'm developing reads on, Aronis and FourTrouble, for what I just said. Aronis for monkeying a confident player, and

FourTrouble for waiting for other people to give him the reason for his vote

.

Oh lordy lord.

Dat omgus.

I am interested in hearing FT's reasoning though.

[Selkies]

Out of the people I'm developing reads on, Aronis and FourTrouble, for what I just said. Aronis for monkeying a confident player, and FourTrouble for waiting for other people to give him the reason for his vote.

I can't ever do anything right, can I?

What's this about?

[Selkies]

uh huh. you realise they're only irritated the votes on their slot, they don't seem to care about unexplained votes from anyone else (like cabd's vote on aronis, or fourtrouble's vote on ross, or any of the other votes that weren't explained)

Interesting

Firstly, I think it's fair to say that we treat cabd differently than we treat the rest of you. Or at least I do.

Secondly, I did ask FT where his ross read came from. But since I have a townread on him, I see no reason to pressure him on it since he did say that he was getting to it some posts back

Thirdly, where the fuck do you get off asking other people to explain shit when you don't do so yourself?

[Selkies]

And no fucking shit I'm irritated on the votes on our slot.

The votes on the only person in this game I know to be town. At least one of which that comes from town because scum wouldn't pile on us like this so openly.

Holy fuck.

[Selkies]

I know. I also know people have a tendency to notice crap votes when they're on them. Doesn't mean it's not nice to see someone irritated by it, though, even if it's self-serving. Lets me pretend I'm not the only one bothered by it, at least. It would be nice if it was more toward the town as a whole, but then I'd be holding out an idiot's hope.

Oh hi, you said this already. I should read the entire page before I post and etc.

Arguing with SSK isn't a good track to follow. Mostly because SSK isn't one of those players where if you prove he's being illogical you can associate that with being scum.

Do you have meta with anybody here?

Pedit: because you're a special little flower

[Selkies]

At least one of which that comes from town because scum wouldn't pile on us like this so openly

i'm guessing this isn't the ffery head. if it is, i'm happy with my vote.

this isn't the fery head, how do you feel about your vote

[Selkies]

Oh I care about what you think up until the point where I'm convinced beyond doubt that you're scum

Don't worry, I'm getting there.

[Selkies]

still scum

you apparently think i'm scum, though, so i don't know why you care how i feel about it

Actually I think you're going to be the Svenskt of this game. It may be a while before we come to a consensus read on you.

UNVOTE

Oh hey. It's 4am and I'm awake and why am I getting special treatment again?

Orcinus is approaching you today pretty much the way he approached forming a read on me in NY 165.

[Selkies]

Orcinus is approaching you today pretty much the way he approached forming a read on me in NY 165.

I have no recollection of how that went, so go for it?

It annoyed me and made me nervous at the time. He pretty much stayed out of my way and maintained observation mode about me during day 1 until near the end of the day.

[Selkies]

UNVOTE

are you fucking serious

[Selkies]

It may be a while before we come to a consensus read on you.

what happened to me tweaking your model of scum-me then?

I kinda thought it was an intentional tweak. Overall I feel like you're playing much more aggressively here than you did in our last couple of games where you were scum, despite the tweak.

[Selkies]

Well, if my current health and apathy streak continues on this course, there wont be much to observe for a few IRL days.

Feel like talking about Aronis?

[Selkies]

Well, if my current health and apathy streak continues on this course, there wont be much to observe for a few IRL days.

Feel like talking about Aronis?

[Selkies]

I kinda thought it was an intentional tweak

no? i don't even know what your model of scum-me is

good!

Overall I feel like you're playing much more aggressively here than you did in our last couple of games where you were scum

even if i were being aggressive (and i don't think anything i've done here is particularly aggressive so i dunno what you're referring to), this seems like a strange reason to change your mind

Aggressive might not be the best word for what I'm seeing as different in this game from bork's touhou mini and marketplace, but it's what comes to mind at dark-thirty am. You're engaging with players and poking at stuff in a way that's more reminiscent of some of your town games we've played. In Marketplace, you intentionally tweaked your meta to emulate your town games, so I'm not entirely put at ease by this, but I am not scumreading you.

[Selkies]

In fact, selkies is my biggest scum read: spamming pages 1-6. Conversations between hydra heads like in the quote above, orcinus slipping and posting as himself several times, seeming to look for easy lynches, etc...

How is conversing between hydra heads scummy?

How is hydra slipping scummy?

How are we looking for easy lynches?

What is etc?

[Selkies]

I am the head who made the post you're pointing an arrow at. Our posting style are pretty distinct, so I think your case, if that's what you're calling it is pretty meh.

When I saw your earlier post, I thought that the post itself wasn't too bad, but the timing and the momentum look like where I would probably jump on a wagon if I were scum.

This last post, though, that actually comes off kinda scummy to me. I've been kinda tracking who complains about my posting content and quantity in games over time, and it is not a for sure tell, but the alignments are becoming statistically significant.

Zmuffin, you asked who is in my scumpile. When you asked me, I had concerns about Aronis. I still do. And I'll add Goodfather to the pile.

[Selkies]

Orcinus is approaching you today pretty much the way he approached forming a read on me in NY 165.

Can you describe Orc's playstyle for me?

His style is volatile and reaction-generating. He sometimes tunnels pretty heavily.

Scum-Mara called Orcinus a "rage child" in the AMoL scum QT iirc. I don't think that's accurate, but it may feel that way when he's tunneling someone.

[Selkies]

I am the head who made the post you're pointing an arrow at. Our posting style are pretty distinct, so I think your case, if that's what you're calling it is pretty meh.

When I saw your earlier post, I thought that the post itself wasn't too bad, but the timing and the momentum look like where I would probably jump on a wagon if I were scum.

This last post, though, that actually comes off kinda scummy to me. I've been kinda tracking who complains about my posting content and quantity in games over time, and it is not a for sure tell, but the alignments are becoming statistically significant.

Zmuffin, you asked who is in my scumpile. When you asked me, I had concerns about Aronis. I still do. And I'll add Goodfather to the pile.

you completely avoided my concern of whether you talk to one another off thread? If so, I'd like to know why you talked to one another on the thread when you have other means of communication. If not, I can understand, the two heads need to act as one, so if your only way to communicate with one another is in this game thread, then there is no reason to be so suspicious of your inter-head communication.

and with regard to the timing, It had been a while since i had posted. I was trying to avoid needing to be prodded. I was obv too late, not that it matters much

I didn't "avoid" it. I didn't think it really warranted a reply because it's common knowledge that hydra talk to each other outside the game thread. Have you never played games with hydrae at MS before?

We do talk outside the thread, but we don't try to present a totally consensus "player" in the game thread. We're two people, arguably two strong players, and I believe it's pro-town to give town the benefit of both our thought processes and and conclusions.

[Selkies]

Just by the fucking way we will play our hydra how we want to play our hydra

Some hydras want to be unified. Others (like us) have two players with very distinct styles and we might not want to force ourselves into a playstyle that neither is comfortable with. That is our goddamn prerogative.

And yeah if you read any of our past games we do talk inthread a lot. We normally pull things to skype when we wanna match reads, but aside from that we sort of each do our own thing.

Also the argument that hydra slipping is scummy is the dumbest thing I've heard all day. I phone post a lot and so I don't always remind myself to switch accounts.

95% of my posts are focused on the game. The other 5% are "fluff" because I do play this game for fun. And guess what? I do have fun by having banter with fery inthread, by poking cabd. How on earth is this scum indicative?

[Selkies]

I don't know if any of the players I hydra with have a similar enough style to be totally confusing. I don't think so. Geists (Natirasha and I) is maybe a little confusing at first.

People figure who is writing a particular post pretty easily after a couple pages worth of game. If it looks like someone is confused Orcinus or I speak up.

I'm not sure what you were asking by "how it works". That probably varies from hydra to hydra. 2 (or more) people, one role pm, one vote. Votes are either consensus or tug-of-war depending on how/if the hydra players decide to work together.

[Selkies]

Just by the fucking way we will play our hydra how we want to play our hydra

Some hydras want to be unified. Others (like us) have two players with very distinct styles and we might not want to force ourselves into a playstyle that neither is comfortable with. That is our goddamn prerogative.

And yeah if you read any of our past games we do talk inthread a lot. We normally pull things to skype when we wanna match reads, but aside from that we sort of each do our own thing.

Also the argument that hydra slipping is scummy is the dumbest thing I've heard all day. I phone post a lot and so I don't always remind myself to switch accounts.

95% of my posts are focused on the game. The other 5% are "fluff" because I do play this game for fun. And guess what? I do have fun by having banter with fery inthread, by poking cabd. How on earth is this scum indicative?

haha, I'm not telling you how to play. That would be extremely hypocritical of me as a new member, and i don't think anything i've said can be viewed or construed as me telling you how to play. I was merely giving my reads and justifying my vote. You obviously disagree, as is your prerogative. As I've said, I am wary of hydras, and I will continue to be as long as they remain unknown to me. That may be simple minded, but i have found that skepticism is often justified in this game, especially this early in the game

This post exemplifies what comes off as scummy in your stance. "Spam", "I don't know who is posting", etc. were your vote reasons, and you've conceded those points basically but your vote is still down because "I'm wary of hydras".

[Selkies]

You see, you're not attempting to discern our alignment. You're just binning us "because hydra". If you're town, then part of your job is to actually sort us. If you're scum, do please keep right along with this non-scumhunting.

[Selkies]

Selkies games:

Borkgame Micro, town: 671 posts http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go - survived LYLO

AMoL mini, town: 370 posts http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go - died night 4

Pinnipedum mini, scum: 208 posts http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go - survived LYLO (xmas holidays)

Bert, why didn't you say anything about my hydrae and high post volume?

[Selkies]

alright @selkies, It should be said now that I am a bit of a math nerd, and i have spent some time looking over this post of yours, and i will be honest and say that looking over your meta has undeniably shown that you are far more active when town. There are also fewer hydra slips when you were scum, lending some credibility as well. I find statistics to be a better indicator of typical behavior than what someone says is their typical behavior. Words can be easily manipulated, but data and figures are harder to fabricate, and is usually a stronger basis for establishing meta in my opinion.



Please answer these questions tho, and depending on how you answer them, i may recast my vote:

1) were these the only other 3 games you have played together?

There was one other game that I didn't include because we didn't complete it. The mod and orcinus had an altercation in another game and the mod force-replaced orcinus partway through day 1, but would have let me continue playing in our original slot. I quit in protest of his decision.

Goonies micro, town: 105 posts: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

2) Does ffery typically post more often than orcinus? (this is just an observation I think is true. it may not be)

In our first game (borkgame) we both posted at a prodigious rate. In our next two games, real life in the form of final exams and vacation trips to Shangri La impacted Orcinus' rate of play, and probably contributed to the significant decrease in posts between borkgame and AMoL. We hadn't played together as a hydra in quite a while prior to the Pinnipeds game. I think the holidays had more to do with our lower posting rate than our alignment (more about that later), but Orcinus was on vacation during a good chunk of that game, too.

Selkies games:

Borkgame Micro, town: 671 posts http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go - survived LYLO

Total Posts: 2306, your hydra posts: 671, hydra slips: 14 from orcinus, 0 from ffery.

Total percentage of posts: 671/2306 = 29.1%

this game does fit your playstyle for this game. I admit that.

AMoL mini, town: 370 posts http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go - died night 4

Total posts: 1698, hydra posts: 370, hydra slips: 5 from orcinus, 16 from fferylit( i think that is the other head, correct?)

Total percentage of posts: 370/1698 = 21.8%

You had the most posts in this game as well, followed next by someone with a little more than half of your posts

Pinnipedum mini, scum: 208 posts http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go - survived LYLO (xmas holidays)

Total Posts: 1672, Your posts: 208, hydra slips: 4 from orcinus, 2 from ffery

Total percentage of posts: 208/1672 = 12.4%

You were also not the largest poster in this game, lending further strength to your defense and criticism of my claim.

This is the only game you were scum together? And nati's current game is your 4th game as a hydra with one another, correct?

thanks for answering these questions

This is our 5th game together as a hydra, counting the game we were replaced out of. And Pinnipedum was the only game we've played as selkies where we were scum.

But, I think you are taking away the wrong conclusion from this. I'm not arguing that posting a lot is a town tell for me (or for orcinus, or for the amalgam that is selkies). I'm arguing that volume of posting isn't alignment indicative. I have over 50 completed games on site, as various hydrae as well as a solo player. When I started playing at MS, I was coming from a forum environment where game days lasted 12-24 hours, and the pace was pretty blistering. Playing a game was a super-high commitment for a week or two, and then it was on to the next game. It took me a while to learn to pace myself, and I'm still usually one of the highest volume if not the highest volume poster in a game, at least while I'm alive regardless of my alignment. In fact the only players who have ever left my postcount completely in the dust in a game was Bert in a newbie game, and buldermar a couple of the games we played.

People who played with me in my earliest games who then play again later have noticed a difference in the day-by-day intensity of my play.

And, in games where other players take a slower approach, I usually follow suit, though I gripe a little about the lack of data to analyze.

[Selkies]

This entire page had me cringing the whole way through

Goodfather, do you have experience playing mafia offsite?

441 was the most open pile of WIFOM I've seen for a bit

In 440: out of curiosity can you tell the difference between our posts? Because I feel like Fery's play this game is on the same level of activity, if not more, than all her other games and idk what you're talking about

[Selkies]

And yeah, I've been VLA a lot of the selkies game, regardless of alignment. Thankfully I'm not in this game

[Selkies]

No it's ok the cringe came more from goodfather's

statistical analysis

than anything else

Your 441 basically invalidates all scum-meta on us. Ever. So by that reasoning you would never have a reason to scumread us. Like I'm fine with that ofc, but I just don't think that it's conducive to actual scumhunting.

I'm phone posting and nothing stands out to me. I sort of want to talk to Cabd about aronis soon.

I might look at Ross/FT later today

[Selkies]

Yeah, ok, it's a crap "statistic" to begin with.

But I think that even though people are aware of their scum-meta, they don't always manage to mask it. That's one of the fundamental assumptions I make when scumhunting.

[Selkies]

is your read on katsuki predicated solely on earlygame shenanigans?

[Selkies]

1. MafiaSSK
2. Cabd
3. Selkies(fferyllt+orcinus_theoriginal)
4. zMuffinMan
5. FourTrouble
6. King Kenny
7. The Goodfather*
8. kabooooom*
9. Bert Karlos4
10. RossWilliam
11. Aronis
12. Idiotking*
13. Katsuki

POE means you have townreads on questionable figures like kenny, kaboom, aronis. Talk to me about those.

[Selkies]

yeah but talk to me about how on earth you have so many townreads that you're able to bring this down to poe already

[Selkies]

VOTE: Katsuki

-o

[Selkies]

bert you should vote katsuki with us.

[Selkies]

Muffin's nonproductive posts worry me...I'm seriously considering voting him if he doesn't step up soon.

you should follow your heart then because i have no intention of "stepping it up" any time soon

nope i havent read the game.

You know, I don't even know what to say at this point.

She's scum because her PM says so.

This is clever and has not been used a billion times already, you stupid fucker.

[Selkies]

nope i havent read the game.

You know, I don't even know what to say at this point.

Do you think it's alignment indicative though?

you stupid fucker.

That is rude, mean and utterly uncalled for. Natimodpls

Oh please. If you're going to go ahead and make sure that your only function in the game is to irritate me, yes, i'm going to swear at you. Grow a thicker skin if that bothers you. Or, y'know, call a wambulance.

[Selkies]

[Selkies]

wow shots fired

why is katsuki a waste of a lynch

[Selkies]

Oh hell no we're not.

Talk to me about Aronis plz.

[Selkies]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aronis

Give Aronis a break, Cabd. I'm pretty sure they're new.

Cabd was right about this being scummy.

Almost as bad as me defending Muffin. How do you know Aronis?

1 hour till Aussie open finals. Seeya tomorrow guys

I can't place it in a game, but I think I remember Cabd making a similar observation about a newbie player before. And I feel like I've seen SSK take up for a newbie player this way in the past.

I don't think it was the same game.

[Selkies]

Between the playing monkeying and experianced player, and the player throwing names out at random hoping someone will latch on to them, I think we'll find scum

This "I think we'll find scum" feels so cautious!

Vote: RossWilliam

I'm going to get reads by 90% gut this game as I play along for a while,

so don't ask me for reads for a while if you are okay with that...

Any list I flesh out now would be terrible and full of everything that tips scum and dummies off that I'm a great lynchbait target.

Approx four hours later you post this:

That being said, i am not just going to remove my vote. You are in no real danger of being hammered, so for now, i am going to keep my vote on you while i reread the thread and re-evaluate my read to see if anyone else sticks out more as scum.

It seems like you are preoccupied with being seen with your vote on Ffery/Orc. Why did you feel the need to provide a reason to keep your vote on the hydra?

Tentative Gut Reads (please don't kill me for this lol). thought about this game some this afternoon while having an iced latte lol

(1) Idiotking:

[town] starting to think (gut) that Idiotking vs. SSK is Town vs. Town. Reminds me of Mitillos under fire in past Resistance. Game isn't adjusted to current times.

(2) SSK

- town - think this is his town game....ffery what do you think?

(3) Katsuki

- null. Please explain why Selkie is scum??

(4) Ross

- Scum (#347 tone is off)

(5) Kaboom

- town - natural post/wall above in #435.

(6) Muffin

- a little restrained (it feels) in communicating with me. However, early wagon felt scum driven (gut-wise...), so I tend to think town..

(7) Kenny

- #334 and 363 0 just announces me as town for no reason...other than that is null. I don't really get him...is like scum trying to do as little as possible and stay out of the spotlight

(8) Aronis

- #353 feels like town frustration in a toolenduso Micro 260 (past game) kind of way...

(9) fourtrouble

- scum - discussion about rules and #186 explanation for Muffin-vote both feel made up

(10) Selkies

- we need you to be a leader here, ffery, and lead the town - both for my paranoia and for town's sake - take charge because all i notice is Orc doing most of the hard probing.

(11) Cabd

- tempted to call him gut-town, but TBD and null realistically. Will wait for him to feel better and join us again.

(12) Goodfather

- town - transparency is there - hard to explain as it's more intuitive than anything

[Selkies]

Oh hell no we're not.

Then you're way behind this game.

Not so far behind as you apparently imagine. I'm keeping the salt shaker handy, though I am kinda getting a tales upick vibe from some of your early posts.

Talk to me about Aronis plz.

In a bit sure. I just didn't like the entry, nor did I like the "omg cut him slack" out of left field from SSK, reminds me of "we the purple" where I did that shit to the zazzier alt scumbud.

Hm. wonder if that's what I'm vaguely recalling.

[Selkies]

Selkies, you're town as I already mentioned. There were a few posts in the first 10 pages that I liked a lot, and the fact you offered your thoughts on Ross was town for me.

Idiotking, Bert, SSK -- don't think I need to explain those town-reads.

Goodfather/Cabd -- I'm still trying to evaluate their interaction, which seemed over-the-top at times, but overall I like them as town.

I had Goodfather down as town based on town

quite early, and likewise for Cabd.

Anything I'm missing? This game really isn't that hard. Ross/Katsuki/zMuffin. It makes sense. It's clear.

FWIW Cabd's medical condition flaring up has slowed his posting down in other games before.

I don't get what you're saying with the bolded.

[Selkies]

Goodfather, in your short-game experience, were majority lynch or plurality lynch rules in effect?

[Selkies]

Is it alignment indicative in the past for either of them, or is the sample size too small?

Small sample size, but more importantly, I can't place which game(s) were involved. May have been games I followed, not games I played.

[Selkies]

I am kinda getting a tales upick vibe from some of your early posts.

That's pretty distressing given I don't think I'm playing anything like tales of upick.

For the most part you're not.

[Selkies]

I am kinda getting a tales upick vibe from some of your early posts.

That's pretty distressing given I don't think I'm playing anything like tales of upick.

For the most part you're not.

Then why bring up the game I'm not playing like as opposed to one I am playing like?

Because there was a point of comparison and I was acknowledging that in a way I thought you'd understand. :/

[Selkies]

I have only been playing for about a month,

and my completed games are all on another site where the phases are typically 24 hours or less

and there are no hydras.

I was asking about these games.

[Selkies]

GF, we're asking if you have games off site that are completed.

yes, I was modkilled in my first game cause i hinted to hard at my role and hinting was forbidden that game. I also got majority lynched in another game off site. I started by playing a handful of mafia academy game on another site. Basically 9 players, 7 town 2 mafia, and a specific set of roles.

Currently on MS tho, all of my games are active

Can i say the other site, or is that against the rules? (i ask because on the other site you can't reference other websites wihtout getting an infraction cause they consider it advertising)

24 hour game days and majority lynch rules are something else.

I asked because prior to playing at MS I hardly ever played games with majority lynch rules, and my playstyle and strategies are shaped somewhat by that, as well as by a curious combination of phobia about accidental quickhammering and not quite enough obsessiveness about checking the vote count once wagons start to mount. I wondered if some of what I'm picking up in your play comes from a similar mindset.

[Selkies]

And what does your other head think?

Town! I might sheep you later because Ffery hasn't been town enough yet - she should lead but isn't really taking charge yet and apparently isn't caught up....which has me wondering...I'm looking for where she pronounces something and like I instantly want to consider buying in...I don't feel that yet with her

You have some of the strangest ideas about my town game.

[Selkies]

Offisite meta. :/

[Selkies]

I'm taking a quick look now. It's vbulletin which is good. But, ISO isn't a thing, and in the first game at least, the mod didn't update the OP with cardflips and such.

[Selkies]

let me know the greasemonkey script and I'll try it out.

[Selkies]

I meta'd some of her completed games recently. Reading in real-time is different, but I feel like she came off way more earnest and try-hard right from the start in her earlier town games. But, I'd expect that to mellow out with more games at MS. Other than that, her play feels townish to me.

[Selkies]

I meta'd some of her completed games recently. Reading in real-time is different, but I feel like she came off way more earnest and try-hard right from the start in her earlier town games. But, I'd expect that to mellow out with more games at MS. Other than that, her play feels townish to me.

Gah. wrong game, wrong browser.

[Selkies]

wow shots fired

why is katsuki a waste of a lynch

Katsuki is either a jester, or he's blatantly over this game, which tells me town. Scum don't check out of a game on day 1

Can we lynch Ross, please?

Orcinus and I have some time slated for Ross research when it's daytime in Beijing again. I'm getting some preliminaries together this afternoon (California time).

[Selkies]

I've developed at least a slight feel for what I think of as "vintage" MS play, though there are actually a bunch of different vintages. There was a returning player in the NY165 game who was an almost universal scum read whom I felt pretty damn sure was town. He was eventually vig killed and flipped town iirc. StevieT92. 2009 may be too far back to get much sense of Ross' here-and-now game, though. I'll say so if that's what I conclude.

[Selkies]

I've got all night.


I await your long masturbatory wall with glee.

Got that greasemonkey link handy?

[Selkies]

I fell asleep and missed my appt with Orcinus. :/

Back when it's not 3 am.

[Selkies]

you cannot believe how relieved i am to see a fucking case on us for once

so anyway,

when i initially voted selkies, way back when on p4, it was because i really didn't like any of their initial posts - joking around and what not is fine but i didn't really like the way they were doing it and there was way too much noise for my liking. nothing special here, just a gut ping. a couple pages later and nothing about their posting was looking town at all, so i decided i'd outright call them scum and see how they reacted. and i really didn't like how either head of the hydra reacted.

When you vote us on p4 you're basically voting me, jsyk. And joking around is not a scumtell, believe it or not. There's nothing else inside this paragraph except for creative rewrites of "selkies is scum" so not much for me to respond to.

at first i thought the orcinus head of the hydra was joking around with an OMGUS vote on me, but when he later tried to justify the vote i was a little confused. and the justification was quite shit, all things considered - their vote on me was for having "shit content" or something along those lines, when outside of the justification for their vote on me,

they'd literally done no scum hunting, and contributed nothing of value to the thread.

Oh, fun!

1) We got several solid townreads off of early game, so fuck you and whereever you get off the idea that you get to trash on our reading process.
2) You literally came in here, off the back of us moving the game out of RVS phase and creating a shitton of content with the SSK interaction, gave 4 or 5 unexplained reads and then left. Yeah, no, that's "shit content" buddy. If you think otherwise, then I guess the problem here is that you are a shit player. Soz :/
3) If we don't have fucking scum reads, then we're not going to make up scum reads. Everyone who we have interacted with, we have a read on. The fact that our early interactions gave us town vibes doesn't actually mean that we're not scumhunting.

Let me just highlight that one sentence because there are only a few explanations here. One is that you don't actually understand what the word literally means and that you're just parroting whatever mommy said at breakfast. The second is that you are deliberately downplaying our contributions to the thread because there is no possible way that you actually think this.

plus what was ironic about the justification is that part of their justification for voting me seemed to be that i was not providing a reason for my vote; but look at any of the votes they'd made in the game at that point (including the vote on me) and try to find a single reason for any of them. like, you can ISO them and look at how their play progressed up until the point orcinus finally justified the vote on me, and if you don't see blatant hypocrisy there, i don't know what to say.

Haha, no, you don't actually get to say that. Because I was here in RVS and was the person who tried to move us into game phase. Because I was here voting people, creating wagons and creating content. I am voting people without explicitely saying reasons because when you come into thread, actively do nothing, and stay here, you should have "oh wait i might get voted for this" somewhere in the back of your head.

plus, really, unless you're playing your very first game or you have an outdated playstyle (like idiotking), you really shouldn't find naked votes scummy, and you really shouldn't be surprised by them.

no i find them fucking annoying and anti-town when they aren't used to create pressure and force interaction. You created zero pressure and you forced zero interaction. I don't know what is with this sewage-breed of players in you and katsuki. But when you vote with no reason and shy away from the person you vote, you might want to consider investing in another game. Like, I don't know. Tag.

but still, orcinus persisted in this, and so i decided to sit back and observe how they interacted with me when i was refusing to give an explanation for my vote.

No, you sat back and decided to scurry away when I called you out on your vote on us. If you wanted to observe how we interacted with you, you should've interacted with us. Even you should be able to understand that.

i'm not sure if orcinus actually realised the irony in the way he was justifying his vote on me or if it went over his head, but yeah. i dunno what was going on with this, and it didn't look town at all. it was a really, really weak justification for a push on me.

If this is your town game, I give you around a 2/10. You don't pass.

outside of their reaction to the vote on me, there's a few things here and there that i didn't really like. there are certain questions that come from the orcinus head that i think are designed to look like he's scum hunting (or something, i'm not sure, really), but the questions he asks or the statements he makes are all awful in one way or another. for example, #262 (which i talked a little about earlier in the thread) where he calls something katsuki said hypocritical when it's really not hypocritical at all <- he should be able to understand it's not hypocritical, but he doesn't, also didn't really like any of his reactions to my questioning him about this post and what his read on katsuki actually was.

Oh please. Go get a dictionary. I really can't help you there. Well, admittedly, part of that is because I don't really want to.

another example is #356, where orcinus quotes ross and calls it OMGUS, without actually understanding ross's point or why it isn't OMGUS; and i really have no idea what this sort of thing is meant to achieve, other than noise. does he think ross is scummy for the OMGUS? what's the fucking point of posts like this?

The fucking points seem to be flying over your head. Ross' vote on FT seemed to be born out of "well imma vote FT for...well hang on im going to make up a reason for this" because 347 applies to other people far better than it applies to FT.

i'm not a fan of any of the scum hunting they've done so far. a lot of it feels really empty,

guys im going to give 4 unjustified reads on people and then run the fuck away when questioned on them. Oh btw your scumhunting is empty.

questions for the sake of asking questions, but doing nothing with the answers.

i have no idea what they're doing with their reads at the moment, and i'm not seeing any sort of progression towards something, if that makes sense? like they're probing you about aronis, asking questions about goodfather, etc, but then... nothing.

????????

also i'm not sure what to make of ffery unvoting me. there are two possible reasons i can think of. one i'm not going to talk about right now. the other is that ffery actually believes she spotted something in my play that she thinks is more likely to come from me as town than me as scum. but she was very vague on what that something is (something to do with me probing people for opinions, when i really wasn't doing anything of the sort at the time). i dunno. didn't really make a lot of sense at the time, and i woulda thought ffery would be trying to engage me and find out why i'm still voting their slot or something. orcinus didn't seem to like ffery's unvote, but he's not doing anything about it, soooooo i dunno what's going on with their read on me now.

Fery thinks you are town. I thought you picked that up?

so yeah, this isn't exactly a case, just where i'm at with them at the moment and how my read on them has progressed. this is about... half of my thought processes regarding them, actually. there's some stuff i've left out, but i don't want to talk about it right now, and i probably won't any time soon. i don't actually know what i'm supposed to look for in ffery's scum game because i've never seen it, but this isn't making me think of her town game at all, and everything orcinus posts just makes me want to lynch them with fire.

i'm also not putting this much effort into any other read you want me to explain. this is a special exception, just for you, because i'm such a nice guy and all

You are actually a moron.

[Selkies]

wow shots fired

why is katsuki a waste of a lynch

Katsuki is either a jester, or he's blatantly over this game, which tells me town. Scum don't check out of a game on day 1

Not implying anything here--are you familiar with the term policy lynch

[Selkies]

Report, Tuesday, January the 28th.

Subject has been observed capable of producing text-vomit at high quantity. It is a remarkable specimen, unlike anything we've seen previously--capable of simulating communication and logic extensively, and yet incapable of anything beyond this facade. The logical continuation of this study would undoubtedly be to uncover the source that subject parrots from. However, the mental energy consumed with attempting in conversation with subject is far too great, and with subject's proven inability in constructing conscious thought (disproving the earlier hypothesis), further interest in subject has ceased.

[Selkies]

also i'm not sure what to make of ffery unvoting me. there are two possible reasons i can think of. one i'm not going to talk about right now. the other is that ffery actually believes she spotted something in my play that she thinks is more likely to come from me as town than me as scum. but she was very vague on what that something is (something to do with me probing people for opinions, when i really wasn't doing anything of the sort at the time). i dunno. didn't really make a lot of sense at the time, and i woulda thought ffery would be trying to engage me and find out why i'm still voting their slot or something. orcinus didn't seem to like ffery's unvote, but he's not doing anything about it, soooooo i dunno what's going on with their read on me now.

Most of your wall seems to be reaction to orcinus' style of play, so I'm not going to respond to that. But, here, you are talking about what made me feel quite unhappy with our vote. I indicated earlier that we didn't have a consensus read on you. For the time, I was willing to let the vote sit and see where it went.

I thought that you were intentionally tweaking something that I had picked up about our recent games where you were scum. And you figured out what I was talking about, since you mentioned it in your wall.

So, my actual post explaining why I unvoted was this:

I kinda thought it was an intentional tweak

no? i don't even know what your model of scum-me is

good!

Overall I feel like you're playing much more aggressively here than you did in our last couple of games where you were scum

even if i were being aggressive (and i don't think anything i've done here is particularly aggressive so i dunno what you're referring to), this seems like a strange reason to change your mind

Aggressive might not be the best word for what I'm seeing as different in this game from bork's touhou mini and marketplace, but it's what comes to mind at dark-thirty am. You're engaging with players and poking at stuff in a way that's more reminiscent of some of your town games we've played. In Marketplace, you intentionally tweaked your meta to emulate your town games, so I'm not entirely put at ease by this, but I am not scumreading you.

I went through your ISO to pick out some of the posts that I saw as "engaging with players" and "poking at stuff" at the time I made the above post.

scum care more about rules that hurt them than town

again, baseless assertion

but let's suppose this is true

do you agree that scum care about their image? or at least are more conscious of what they're posting? if they are, then posting something that scum are more likely to care about seems kinda contradictory to this notion

and no, this isn't WIFOM. this is common sense

I liked this, and I thought that between your comments and cabd's reply to me about the scum behaviors in the game he modded this is actually a decent argument against scum-katsuki.

goodfather probs town

i know why you're saying this but it's not a difficult thing to fake

why are you buddying me so hard, bert?

and my D1 reads were shit in 1523. they *happened* to improve a little later in the game.

I also liked your calling out bert for buddying. I noted you waved off the compliment of your reads in the earlier game. But I have this idea that I've seen you downplay your prior games as either alignment.

Muffin's popped in, dropped a few scum reads, refused to give any reasoning when prompted multiple times, and posted a bunch of crap. "His activity" is underwhelming because he's presumably in-thread and refusing to interact with his scumreads or push anything. "His content" is shit.

i only "dropped" one scum read
why do you think i'm more likely to refuse to give reasoning as scum?
and my activity is what my activity is. i'm reading other games, not sitting here f5ing this thread.

Are you intentionally tweaking my scum-zmuffin model?

maybe your model sucks

Can anyone confirm that this is how muffin man plays?

i've seen this muffin guy play before, and i can tell you this is how he normally plays. i think he's town here.

Selkies seems like town

why?

Shares my irritation in unexplained votes

uh huh. you realise they're only irritated the votes on their slot, they don't seem to care about unexplained votes from anyone else (like cabd's vote on aronis, or fourtrouble's vote on ross, or any of the other votes that weren't explained)

I liked this too. I liked the pushback on my post. I noted the reply to goodfather as something you were doing more as town, but I think you've started making that kind of comment as scum recently (marketplace). As far as the unexplained votes, I know I've indicated I'd like more about Cabd's aronis read, and orcinus engaged fourtrouble on his Ross read.

[Selkies]

also i'm not sure what to make of ffery unvoting me. there are two possible reasons i can think of. one i'm not going to talk about right now. the other is that ffery actually believes she spotted something in my play that she thinks is more likely to come from me as town than me as scum. but she was very vague on what that something is (something to do with me probing people for opinions, when i really wasn't doing anything of the sort at the time). i dunno. didn't really make a lot of sense at the time, and i woulda thought ffery would be trying to engage me and find out why i'm still voting their slot or something. orcinus didn't seem to like ffery's unvote, but he's not doing anything about it, soooooo i dunno what's going on with their read on me now.

Most of your wall seems to be reaction to orcinus' style of play, so I'm not going to respond to that. But, here, you are talking about what made me feel quite unhappy with our vote. I indicated earlier that we didn't have a consensus read on you. For the time, I was willing to let the vote sit and see where it went.

I thought that you were intentionally tweaking something that I had picked up about our recent games where you were scum. And you figured out what I was talking about, since you mentioned it in your wall.

So, my actual post explaining why I unvoted was this:

I kinda thought it was an intentional tweak

no? i don't even know what your model of scum-me is

good!

Overall I feel like you're playing much more aggressively here than you did in our last couple of games where you were scum

even if i were being aggressive (and i don't think anything i've done here is particularly aggressive so i dunno what you're referring to), this seems like a strange reason to change your mind

Aggressive might not be the best word for what I'm seeing as different in this game from bork's touhou mini and marketplace, but it's what comes to mind at dark-thirty am. You're engaging with players and poking at stuff in a way that's more reminiscent of some of your town games we've played. In Marketplace, you intentionally tweaked your meta to emulate your town games, so I'm not entirely put at ease by this, but I am not scumreading you.

I went through your ISO to pick out some of the posts that I saw as "engaging with players" and "poking at stuff" at the time I made the above post.

scum care more about rules that hurt them than town

again, baseless assertion

but let's suppose this is true

do you agree that scum care about their image? or at least are more conscious of what they're posting? if they are, then posting something that scum are more likely to care about seems kinda contradictory to this notion

and no, this isn't WIFOM. this is common sense

I liked this, and I thought that between your comments and cabd's reply to me about the scum behaviors in the game he modded this is actually a decent argument against scum-katsuki.

goodfather probs town

i know why you're saying this but it's not a difficult thing to fake

why are you buddying me so hard, bert?

and my D1 reads were shit in 1523. they *happened* to improve a little later in the game.

I also liked your calling out bert for buddying. I noted you waved off the compliment of your reads in the earlier game. But I have this idea that I've seen you downplay your prior games as either alignment.

Muffin's popped in, dropped a few scum reads, refused to give any reasoning when prompted multiple times, and posted a bunch of crap. "His activity" is underwhelming because he's presumably in-thread and refusing to interact with his scumreads or push anything. "His content" is shit.

i only "dropped" one scum read
why do you think i'm more likely to refuse to give reasoning as scum?
and my activity is what my activity is. i'm reading other games, not sitting here f5ing this thread.

Are you intentionally tweaking my scum-zmuffin model?

maybe your model sucks

Can anyone confirm that this is how muffin man plays?

i've seen this muffin guy play before, and i can tell you this is how he normally plays. i think he's town here.

Selkies seems like town

why?

Shares my irritation in unexplained votes

uh huh. you realise they're only irritated the votes on their slot, they don't seem to care about unexplained votes from anyone else (like cabd's vote on aronis, or fourtrouble's vote on ross, or any of the other votes that weren't explained)

I liked this too. I liked the pushback on my post. I noted the reply to goodfather as something you were doing more as town, but I think you've started making that kind of comment as scum recently (marketplace). As far as the unexplained votes, I know I've indicated I'd like more about Cabd's aronis read, and orcinus engaged fourtrouble on his Ross read.

[Selkies]

Hi

Hi. Why aren't you obvtown yet?

[Selkies]

I fell asleep and missed my appt with Orcinus. :/

Back when it's not 3 am.

i have a psyc exam in 8 hours and a road trip for CNY. This isn't happening for another day at least.

[Selkies]

I think I'll post my stuff later today, then. You can critique it when you get back.

[Selkies]

Ross ISO

In regards to Goodfather and Katsuki, I don't see it being scummy to criticize the infamous rule six. I see it as an individually minded town player being worried that even if he or she is actively hunting and aiding the town, he or she might still get randomly lynched because the rest of the town is lazy or indecisive. Although town shouldn't be worried about getting lynched, because the point of the game isn't to make it to the end, it's to find scum. This isn't Survivor.

In regards to Selkies, pointing out who might be an easy lynch isn't good for the town. Even if you are town, you're giving information to uncreative scum about who would be a good target to pile on, and if enough people declare so-and-so to be an easy lynch, people are going to start seeing scum in them just because people are lazy

Re the first paragraph, The actual argument put forward by katsuki was that rule 6 would punish scum disproportionately.

Re the second paragraph, I think calling out an "easy lynch" has precisely the opposite effect. IME scum worry about being perceived as going after easy lynches even in cases where there's some justification. And even when they don't worry about it, town players who tend to defend easy lynches or scumhunt in easy-lynch bandwagons wind up finding scum. I'll be happy to provide some recent examples of this, including a micro game where a hydra that Cabd and I were in turned out to be correct about one of the players who jumped on a day 1 "easy lynch".

I'm not calling this scummy. I'm not even sure it's outdated site meta. It may just be different approaches to mafia theory. There were certainly town players who were also voting the "easy lynch".

I called rule six infamous because "OOOOOH it's unusual!" and "OOOOOOH it's italicized" and also because it's apparently a scumtell if people agree with it or if they don't. It was something out the ordinary that caused some perhaps too strong opinions

Aronis, you pretty much just echoed Selkies, you just changed some words around, it reminds me of my shoddy elementary school plagiarism attempts. Be honest, did you read Selkies post before you posted or were you just having the same ideas? Selkies posts a lot, and seems to have experiance and speaks with confidence. I could see inexperianced scum thinking that they were a good person to jump in line behind and echo, because chances are they won't be the only one influenced by Selkies, and they can be active without making waves.

On the other end of the spectrum, you have the FourTroubles. Who think "hmmm, I have to be scumhunting, let's see, let me pick someone at random and vote for them. Do I have a reason? Nope. Uh.....,no, um, I don't have time to post a reason....maybe can everyone else post their thoughts on Ross and then I can pick the best theory and pretend I came up with it in the first place?"

FourTrouble, are you scum or just insecure in your scumhunting abilities?

Between the playing monkeying and experianced player, and the player throwing names out at random hoping someone will latch on to them, I think we'll find scum

Reading this in ISO I had a wtf moment about his post to Aronis, because I wouldn't say that we've been an influential player so far. Not given that we've collected 5 votes on day 1. But, at the time the post was made, we were at 2 votes and not the leading bandwagon, so from that perspective,, this isn't a bad post.

The observation about FourTroubles seems really disconnected from reality, though. FourTroubles IMO has been one of the more content-rich posters in the game though not a high volume poster. I don't get the push on them at all.

bert is scum

he hasn't done anything completely antitown, he hasn't self-voted and he hasn't asked to be lynched

Is this a joke or something from meta? Because I don't understand.

FourTrouble. Thanks for finally explaining your vote, but I think your preoccupied with how I play. Some people throw votes and pressure around and use that to find scum, I tend to think out loud and see what people respond to and see how they interact with eachother. You can call it cautious or unagressive, but in my opinion you're more likely to find scum in someone who is trying too hard or being ingenuine. There's no room for townies to be deceptive. And if I was going after easy lynches, I'd be campaigning hard against some who would have a hard time defending himself, this game has a couple. My vote isn't on anyone yet and it'll stay that way until I have more to go on. I'm interested in King Kenny and Kaboooom because I don't have anything on them right now, and I want to compare them to the people who are currently topping my scum list

I don't have any issue with a player holding their vote for a while at times. I'm noting this to see where he goes regarding his two scum reads (Aronis and FourTrouble and the players he wants more data for.

Can there be jesters in this game, or is that not in normal? Either way, I think Katsuki would be a waste of a lynch.

FourTroubles, how many times are you going to mention how skilled you are (

but only on other sites

?) Do you think if you say it loudly enough and repeat yourself enough people will eventually start to believe you?

I don't know where he got this. It's a pretty straight-up discredit of someone who's pushing him.

wow shots fired

why is katsuki a waste of a lynch

Katsuki is either a jester, or he's blatantly over this game, which tells me town. Scum don't check out of a game on day 1

Not implying anything here--are you familiar with the term policy lynch

I know what a policy lynch is, I don't necessary agree with them on the basis that even if a player is a pain in the ass to have alive, lynches should be directed at scum and not nuisances, even if said nuisances are just left to rattle around and make noise forever.

I liked this, probably because I have a long-standing opposition to policy lynches, though I've started to come around in some specific instances. Orcinus has a somewhat unique policy lynch approach. I'm not sure if that's what he had in mind when he asked Ross this question. Orcinus saves policy votes for players he knows that he can't read. Being an annoying git doesn't rate a lynch in his opinion.

I don't consider anyone a policy lynch.

I said earlier that Katsuki is either a jester or checked-out town, but after hearing about scum using prod dodging to get ahead, that's on the table now too, I wasn't considering it before

This points up that he actually had Katsuki off the table as a lynch option prior to this post. Limiting his options on a player who has some suspicion on them is a ballsy move if he's scum.

@FourTrouble I'm going to reread your case for scum-Ross. You're obviously seeing something in these posts that I'm missing. This iso isn't town as fuck, but I don't see it as super-scummy either.

[Selkies]

Well, since a few people seem really interested in why Ross is scum, here's a bunch of good reasons to vote him:

In regards to Goodfather and Katsuki, I don't see it being scummy to criticize the infamous rule six. I see it as an individually minded town player being worried that even if he or she is actively hunting and aiding the town, he or she might still get randomly lynched because the rest of the town is lazy or indecisive. Although town shouldn't be worried about getting lynched, because the point of the game isn't to make it to the end, it's to find scum. This isn't Survivor.

In regards to Selkies, pointing out who might be an easy lynch isn't good for the town. Even if you are town, you're giving information to uncreative scum about who would be a good target to pile on, and if enough people declare so-and-so to be an easy lynch, people are going to start seeing scum in them just because people are lazy

The post doesn't contribute anything useful and is basically safe stuff to say. The first paragraph is just saying there is nothing scummy about rule 6, a position that had already been argued and was mostly irrelevant to the game at this point. The analysis of Selkies is just a mundane theoretical point, again not really telling us anything in terms of who the scum are. Ross even frames it in terms of "not good for the town" rather than saying Selkies is scummy. It's too safe and shows a lack of scunhunting.

To put it another way, it feels like Ross is trying to find theoretical positions to disagree/agree with, a lens more likely to come from scum, rather than attempting to genuinely figure out who the scum are. Scum tend to read the game looking for these sorts of theoretical points to comment on because they are safe and don't really expose your motivations. If you look back over the game, the reason Selkies is town is precisely because he has moments where it shows that he's genuinely trying to figure out who the scum are. Ross doesn't have any of that here, while making what appears to be a substantive post, and that's a major red flag, my opinion. There are also some minor points about this post that I really don't like -- the phrase "This isn't Survivor," for example, just feels really fake. It feels like Ross is overstating the point, something scum are prone to do.

This isn't what I got out of Ross' post, but you do make some good points.

However, I remember getting really wound up in players calling me 'anti-town' instead of 'scummy' in the Paradox Prime game, and I thought it was horrifically and obviously scummy. Both the players I went after for it turned out to be town. :/

One of them is playing this game.

In regards to Selkies, pointing out who might be an easy lynch isn't good for the town. Even if you are town, you're giving information to uncreative scum about who would be a good target to pile on, and if enough people declare so-and-so to be an easy lynch, people are going to start seeing scum in them just because people are lazy

I'm not the head who made the observation out loud, but in many games players are familiar enough with each other to know who are likely lynchbait, who are bus-candidates if they are scum, etc. One of the places I look for scum is on the "easy lynch" wagons.

Why do you think scum would be found on the easy lynch wagon? When I think of people who would be targetted for easy lynches, I think of new players who have no idea what they're doing but are trying to keep up with people posting text walls, so they rack their brains and end up with bs, which gets them targetted pretty easily. Not that new players can't be scum, but I think new player scum tend to be quiet and stay under the radar and try to get as little attention as possible.

Which is why I think we need to pay attention to Aronis, and also to Mafiassk for saying we should leave him alone just because he's new,

because if Aronis is scum

, that's exactly what we should do if we want to let him keep slipping and scumming along

The first paragraph here, again, is just disagreeing with a theoretical point -- are scum on easy lynches? -- rather than trying to figure out Selkies' alignment. I just don't see why Ross is putting this much effort discussing this point when it has literally no bearing on Selkies' alignment.

The second point -- pay attention to Aronis/SSK -- is basically saying, "let's go after easy lynches," because they COULD be scum. I'm bolding the key phrase here that really bugs me. When someone is reading the game in terms of what is possible, like X "could" be scum, then that person is not really hunting for scum. They're just looking for people they "could" get lynched. Town don't read the game that way. They read the game in terms of probabilities, things like X is "probably" scum because of Y reason.

You do make a good point that he's arguing theory with someone he's not scumreading rather than going after the players he said were in his scumpile.

Selkies, if we're laboring under different ideas, could you just explain to me simply what you mean?

And Bert, I haven't played mafia in a few years, so anything out of the norm is probably just me resharpening my rusty tools. That's also the reason why everyone seems to know each other already except for me.

I didn't like this post either. The question directed at Selkies doesn't really make much sense to me. And the "haven't played mafia in a few years" thing and "everyone seems to know each other except me" bit just doesn't sit well with me.

There have been a couple of games I've played at MS where I felt like I was the only "stranger" in the game, and a lot of what the players said to/about each other pertained to meta that I didn't understand. I asked questions about the games that were brought up, and skimmed a couple of them, but I couldn't really overcome being or at least feeling like the odd player out. That kind of experience is part of playing on a site like this one. I dunno. I don't think I brought up how I felt in those games. I tend to have a "soldier on" mentality in games.

So, yeah, I get feeling that way. But, it's something you just deal with and move on.

[Selkies]

Selkies you guys realized I'm town yet

Getting there.

[Selkies]

I thought that you were intentionally tweaking something that I had picked up about our recent games where you were scum. And you figured out what I was talking about, since you mentioned it in your wall.

so when you mentioned a model of scum-me you were referring entirely to me thinking you're scum?

I'm not going to tell you all the components of my scum-you or town-you model.

also it looks like the things you "liked" are things you know i do as scum as well, so i don't really get why that would make you unsure about me

Binary models are so narrow as to be all but nonexistent, especially in experienced players. It's not that a player does X as town and never as scum or vice versa. It's the context, timing and circumstances in which behaviors take place.

I don't have a strong town read at this point. There are a couple of things you've done in this game that you have never done when we've played together regardless of your alignment. I'm thinking those might be town indicators, which is why I removed our vote initially, and why I don't want to put our vote back on you.

[Selkies]

I'm not going to tell you all the components of my scum-you or town-you model.

i don't really care if you do or don't, but you made reference to me playing to some model of scum-me you have, and i want to know if you were referring solely to my read on you. because that's what it sounded like you were saying when you responded to my wall.

That's not what I was saying. I don't know how you got that from what I wrote.

[Selkies]

If Cabd shapes a nice beautiful read on Ffery

Time, bud. It takes time. And interaction that hasn't happened yet mostly because uncle cabd is lazy.

Got that greasemonkey script handy?

[Selkies]

In the same post you're asking about, I quoted 4 or 5 posts you made prior to my unvoting you and explained why I don't see them pointing to an unequivocal scum-muffin.

I'm sure this is something important to your read, but I don't follow it and I am not going to go into greater detail about how I meta-read you these days. I'm still in reconstruction mode after Bork's Imperishable Night and the Marketplace games and the work in progress is filed under "arms race".

[Selkies]

You are quite welcome to think that.

[Selkies]

I had a look at some of Ross' earlier games. Without going back to 2009 or earlier, I only found one scum game and he replaced out on day 1 of that game. In fact, he replaced out of all his 2011 games, though his two town games may have been mod-discretion because of inactivity. I didn't see anything in the game thread that indicated the reason, other than his last posts being v/la announcements.

Games from 2011:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=15952 No Exit Mafia

RossWilliams was active in the game for most of day 1. He was replaced on day 2 after going on v/la. He was vanilla town. He came under lynch pressure during day 1, so that factors into the tone of his posts.

Reading his ISO I'm seeing a similar style of occasional rhetorical questions with a kind of theory basis, and providing his own answers. But, he's putting his votes down in line with the theory he talks about, and he's actively engaging the players he's calling scummy. He also puts his vote down quite early and moves it around. He listens to others' arguments and is sometimes swayed by them, or by negative feedback about his play.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=15934

Vanilla town, was replaced on day 2 after going on v/la.. Similar to previous, but he interacts with more players in this game.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=15968

Scum goon. Made 3 posts before being replaced, including one unsupported vote. First post was an apology for missing the start of the game.

Next group of games are from 2009 or earlier and I'm not really comfortable drawing conclusions from them.

I had a look at this one:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=10452

He was town and his first post was a very short “my bad” apology which is in contrast to his scum game above. In this game his posts were shorter and he posted less reasoning and theory stuff, which is probably a style-evolution thing.

His initial post in this game 289 feels more like the second apology than the first.

If I have time, I'll delve a little deeper. The main thing is what FourTrouble picked up, that at least early on, he didn't engage his scum suspects in this game, which is different from the 2011 town games. Also, not voting early in this game is different from those two games.

[Selkies]

I don't think I made this clear above. In his 2011 scum game the mod announced that he'd requested replacement via PM. In his 2011 town games, I didn't notice anything about him requesting replacement, just the v/la notices.

[Selkies]

50/50, same with Aronis.

Both are universally scummy if you go by the conventional scumtell book.

Vote: Selkies

Gut for now, I want Ffery to speak more about the broader picture - not just things that are comfortable for her to write, like meta on a specific few players - that lets her off the hook from having to talk about everyone.

You know how well this works with me.

[Selkies]

50/50, same with Aronis.

Both are universally scummy if you go by the conventional scumtell book.

Vote: Selkies

Gut for now, I want Ffery to speak more about the broader picture - not just things that are comfortable for her to write, like meta on a specific few players - that lets her off the hook from having to talk about everyone.

You know how well this works with me.

^This

heh. GiF's AA game. I'm pretty sure bert knows exactly what I mean.

That said, I actually will post a reads list sometime today.

I'd still like for you to talk about your Aronis read.

p-edit Wrong game, Cabd.

[Selkies]

I'd still like for you to talk about your Aronis read.

He's scum. What of it?

I'm asking for your reasoning.

[Selkies]

Selkies, if you had to guess the scum-team, who?

I don't usually try to guess the scum team on day 1. The scummy-quotient and associatives have to be incredibly high for me to feel confident about picking out a team this early.

Kabooooom has managed to get really far into day 1 without attracting much attention. If Cabd's town, and I think he probably is, I want to put some weight on his Aronis read. But, I wish he'd put more reasoning down. I'm also looking at Ross and maybe Goodfather. But, my Goodfather issue is mostly because his vote has been really sticky in the face of most of his concerns about us getting dog-eared.

[Selkies]

I wish he'd put more reasoning down

Fine. But only if you make orcinus bark like a seal.

Our original avatar did kinda fit better.

[Selkies]

Unvote
Vote: Bert

this vote confuses me.

[Selkies]

Also to keep up with the times, how about this:

I am going to

Unvote

Vote Aronis

For no better reason than other people are doing it, and sheeping is apparently not scummy anymore.
I am only going to post prod-dodge posts until D3, because apparently lurking is not scummy.
I am no longer going to put any thought into any of my votes, because hey, it's just my gut instinct, man, and that ain't scummy.

You have taught me well, guys. I will not disappoint you!

please don't.

[Selkies]

Im bordering on policy lynching katsuki.

Let me read up on this game when I get home later. And after fery and I talk some over.

[Selkies]

All those crumbs I pretended not to see.

[Selkies]

I want to intent-to-hammer Aronis but I'll wait and see what Orci thinks.

[Selkies]

Nacho who else are you scumreading?

[Selkies]

1) cabd is terrible at this game
2) trying to PM yourself results in a SQL error (???)
3) 843 is weird
4) we can intent aronis, but I still kinda want katsuki looked at for a PL. trash-tier play all round

[Selkies]

You and IK have the same info to build a read from. What is it that you're seeing different from him about Aronis?

[Selkies]

@ffery,

and in case it wasn't already obvious i've been trying to monitor (with virtually no success) whether anything i'm saying in the neighbourhood QT is being leaked to people outside the neighbourhood. i had a mild suspicion that you were unvoting me because i was making it very apparent why i thought you were scum in the neighbourhood QT and i thought maybe one of them was leaking what i was saying there to you (such that you knew i could actually write a case on you any time i wanted to but i wasn't doing it in thread). but i'm now thinking that may have just been coincidental timing.

That kinda explains some of the vibes I was getting during some of our back and forth.

[Selkies]

Given the neighborhood thing, I think you're right that he'd be getting coaching if he were scum.

[Selkies]

No kidding.

[Selkies]

The bravado kinda feels town. Kinda.

[Selkies]

VOTE RossWilliams

Let's see.

[Selkies]

Bert, I liked zmuffin's comment that Aronis would be getting heavy coaching if he were the scum in a neighborhood. We can't see the neighborhood convo, though, so it's putting a lot of faith in muffin's powers of observation. I think his powers of observation are decent. If he's scum, keeping the other neighbors alive as long as possible is good for his own longevity. I don't have a scumread of zmuffin, though. Feeling kinda town about him.

The thing I came away from my meta dive on RossWilliam was that the town games from 2012 or whenever it was showed Ross doing some of what fourtrouble has commented is missing from Ross's game here - interaction with his scumreads - pushing hem, telling them what he didn't like about their play. It also had him using his vote from the start and moving it around as his reads changed.

[Selkies]

Happy Scumday Cabd!

[Selkies]

I'm not sure what that means. The higher burden of proof?

[Selkies]

I know that feeling.

[Selkies]

Okay?

Katsuki,
I really don't know, if it was totally up to me, I'd probably lynch em. But I think there's a decent chance they turn out town. Katsuki's posts really haven't been useful and their playstyle seems anti-town.

Idiotking,
Scum or Lost town, He went after Ssk right away and I feel like it was very pointless. He didn't go after me right away, but now he thinks I'm scum without a doubt. He's out for blood and really doesn't care who as long as he gets it, which makes me think Mafia.

Aronis,
Obvious useless and confused town.

RossWilliam,
I'd go town, I don't agree with his reads, but he seems to be trying to help the Town.

Bert,
I really want to say town, but I can't be sure. His playstyle and reads appear town, but I wouldn't be too surprised if it was excellent scum play. So leaning town, not sure though.


Nacho,
Either a scum who is trying to seem too obv scum to be scum or a townie who is totally useless. Gut says town, but I'd lynch em anyways.

Goodfather,
No clue, probably another usless townie/possible scum.

notscience,
Town all the way, I feel like he is really trying to help the town win.

FourTrouble,
Town, I disagree with most of FT reads, but I feel like FT is trying to help the town.

Muffin,
I really think he is town, his playstyle seems similoar to FT and he seems to be trying to help.

Selkies,
No clue, probably town, but idk, hydras are annoying. I'd lynch em just in case.

Cabd,
Another town, seems to be Trying to help.

SSSSSSK,
Idk, Early on appeared town, but lately it's hard to tell.

There are my incredibly short reads, good luck figuring them out.

this reads list is fucking terrible

i havent been around...sorry fery for having to carry me. my comp broke down and stuff

i skimmed game, will be around for next 24 hr to prevent no lynches. do have a train ride though, so not entirely active just yet

[Selkies]

Are you serious Bert? I'm rethinking my vote based on how Ross has reacted to pressure

in this game

. What he's doing here and now can and should trump how he played 2 years ago.