Mini 1543--Natirasha's On Parole!(Game Over)

[Idiotking]

/confirm

Hullo.

[Idiotking]

Oh son of a

bitch.

We meet again, Katsuki.

[Idiotking]

Ok, so let me get my brain sorted here.

So Katsuki said that rule 6 punishes good scumplay, but FourTrouble thinks that Katsuki's scum because of this on the assumption that only scum would say something like that due to knowing more about the setup. This is dumb, because townies would want to play a fair game too. Also, it's kind of clear (at least to me) that no-lynches are more beneficial to scum (because it limits info for the town), so instead allowing for scum to be killed even though they successfully divided the town enough for a no-lynch would be anti-scum. As a townie this would be good for your win-condition, sure, but it'd be unfair, and less fun for everybody. I don't think this is really scummy from FourTrouble, just kind of silly.

Then there's a lot of boring talk between Selkies, MafiaSSK, and Cabd filling the thread.

In post #135 MafiaSSK looks at FourTrouble's (pretty weak) argument against Katsuki based on the rule thing, says "yup, sound's about right" and votes. Sheeping a wee bit, eh?

Post #149, Selkies votes Katsuki without any kind of reason. Selkies also professes a town read on MafiaSSK, again without giving a good reason (this was just after SSK aped FourTrouble). This is a pet peeve of mine, because of how achingly useless it is. Giving reasons when you vote/give reads is kinda important for explaining how you reached those conclusions.

Post #152, Muffin lists a bunch of reads without any, ANY, explanation for why he has them. This bugs me, see above. His Katsuki readi s explained in #163, but still.

#227, Cabd says Goodfather is town, again without explaining why.

#231, SSK again apes Selkies, this time on a muffin vote, again without giving any unique reasoning beyond saying "yup, sounds good."

#233, Cabd votes Aronis, again without explanation (later adding in "oh, I know how young whippersnappers act, you guys, I GET the new generation."; weaksauce bullshit, that.)


#253, Katsuki votes Selkies without giving a reason. GAHHHHRRR


If I missed anything important, feel free to tell me. My patience for rooting through a lot of pointless banter was kinda low.

SO! Since I've got a slew of anti-town no-reason-for-voting players, I'll go with the person who just seems to be aping other people's arguments without producing anything unique to support their votes.

Vote MafiaSSK

Because nothing is more useless than a sheep.

[Idiotking]

@SSK: Sure people can be convinced by other people's reasoning, but just kind of "oh, sure" is both utterly useless and suggests that you are just accepting it wholesale, without going back and making sure it makes sense. Usually if you accept someone else's reasoning it's smart to throw in some of your own analysis too; at least it would show that you didn't just copy/paste, which is a blatantly scummy thing to do.

Also, quantity does not mean quality. A lot of your posts are silly banter that just helped us waste a few pages, nothing more. Other than a few (admittedly decent) questions (like #161), a lot of it's just fluff. As for what I think was directly "not unique", it's your votes. The votes I referenced were completely aping other people's arguments when you had no prior analysis. Especially considering the #202 switch (which was pro-muffin) to #231 (which was a vote for muffin). That's an awful fast turnaround, don't you think?

[Idiotking]

Responding to a prod, will catch up tonight.

[Idiotking]

So this is going to be a big post, but that's just because I actively hate all of you.

I think you are so ridiculously stuck in the basic conceptions of mafia theory that you shouldn't even be in this game.

Oh, you

wound

me. My apologies if you guys are too advanced for me, but I've grown fond of training wheels.

But that's not what I'm doing here, nor would I have any need to. Not only had multiple people had me as solid town reads, but it's also early enough that it truly doesn't matter.

So what are you doing when you are going "yup, uh-huh" then? Also, why does it matter that multiple people had you as solid town reads? Does the fact that several people thought you were town make it true, or that you shouldn't be attacked for scummy behavior? Also, wouldn't the fact that people could have "valid" town reads on you counter your argument that it was too early to matter that you were sheeping? I'm confused, because you seem to be thinking that 1. it was too early to matter that you were sheeping, and 2. it was late enough for people to have valid town reads on you. Those conflict, don't they?

Let's explore that first sentence though. How the agreeing is useless, and how I'm just accepting it wholesale. I will gladly accept it wholesale that I am accepting those arguments wholesale. That is why I agreed to them without adding any questions or analysis that is true. But I think to address your point of how an "oh, sure" is totally useless, I'll have to put it into a more familiar perspective.
On occasion there will be political facebook statuses. Then almost undoubtedly there will be a controversial response. Then the original author will respond with another controversial response from the other side. However, both comments will get a certain amount of "likes" from people who agree with their statement. Whoever has the most likes is seen as winning.
So what I'm doing by giving a wholesale agree to a statement, is I'm "liking" that comment and giving it more credit in relation to other wagons. It is not anti-town. It is not as pro-town as giving a whole other reason, but it is not anti-town and you are wrong to say that.

Town needs information to win.
Explaining votes gives more information to town (via the thought process) than just voting.
Withholding reasoning intentionally limits information to town.
Therefore, it is anti-town.
Now, maybe I'm some old fogey bastard who doesn't get all this new-fangled "not explaining stuff, don't worry guys, it'll be fine" business, but unless you actually have a good reason for just going along with someone's votes, all I see is someone sheeping and providing a hell of a lot less info than they could. If you have a good reason for withholding info, then fine, you should be able to stomach my complaints/attacks until you put your master plan in action. Until then all I see is anti-town behavior and I will attack it as such.

The only real situations that I can think of where it would be as solidly and truly scummy as I think you're seeing it as is if a person were to copy/paste or give a wholesale agreement to a wagon late in the wagon or dare I say even at the hammer.

I think you're acting scummy. I don't think you're completely retarded. Of course it would be obviously scummy

then

. But why excuse poor behavior

now?

Following your line of reasoning I could see someone thinking they could get away with it early in the day, just because it's less obviously scummy. Now that opens up a big can of WIFOM, but the point is, poor play is poor play whenever it happens.

And that is definitely widely seen and is almost surely going to be called out upon especially by players as talented as say Cabd or Ffery or orcinus. But they didn't. You know why? Because this situation is different.

Why do you think I care whether or not those people would go after you? I think you did something scummy, so I will go after you. I don't care if others don't. Maybe they're wrong. Maybe (probably) I'm wrong. But it's better for somebody to go after the reach arguments than nobody, and who better than some rusty idiot?

Quantity may not mean quality but it sure as hell means content. I am responding to players as their posts come in. It is not just me posting to myself about cheese for over 100 posts. I am making connections with players and if you cannot see that, then you should learn it. All interactions with players are connections that you can analyze when others flip.
It's not fluff. It's me analyzing the situations around me. If the situations around me are fluff, then sure, I'll put in a little bit of humor, but it sure as hell is going to have content.

I need more than just chatter. Connections are good to follow. Connections + reasoning allows one to try to determine which reasons are fabricated. I don't understand why this is a hard concept.

As for what I think was directly "not unique", it's your votes. The votes I referenced were completely aping other people's arguments when you had no prior analysis. Especially considering the #202 switch (which was pro-muffin) to #231 (which was a vote for muffin). That's an awful fast turnaround, don't you think?

But then you say this, that my votes aren't unique. And let's note here that you said my votes, not some of my votes but my votes. So right away, no matter how you look at it, you can see that my vote on Selkies was unique and this tremendously breaks your theory for not only did I give unique reasoning once but I did it twice when I voted them on the two different occasions.

I specified that it was the votes I was referencing (the Muffin and Katsuki votes), not all of them. My apologies if my wording was poor, but I figured that "the votes I referenced" was pretty self-explanatory.

But then you reference my opinion switch. This is one of those places where I think your opinion becomes too entrenched in the basics of scumtells. Normally, when a person would switch votes very rapidly it could be seen as scummy. That holds value from the fact that they have no true opinion in the first place and are willing to vote whomever, whenever.

Yup.

There's a couple of problems with this in this circumstance. First, my opnions were never that strong. Ffs, I went back to Selkies on a gut vote. I had no strong opinions on anybody.

And this is something that's supposed to make me

not

want to vote for you?

So when I see logical cases, that I'm willing to put my vote behind, I'm willing to switch my opinion. So that addresses the whomever standpoint. The whenever standpoint is also wrong. For you see, it's still the very beginning of the game, within the first few hours, and there's always a lot of vote-shifting from everyone. People react very strongly and give out tons of different posts, especially in a game as active as this one.
So no, that's not a fast turnaround.

My problem wasn't so much that it was vote hopping. I get that vote hopping happens a lot early in the game. It's the fact that you just wholesale took someone else's argument for granted. It's that

you did not make the logical cases yourself.

From what I saw, you weren't even honestly

trying

, and you yourself admit that you were just bouncing around based on gut. What use are you if you can't think for yourself?

I hope you realize, Idiotking, that was 828 words directed right at you. Coming from me, the lurker. So you bet your ass you're wrong.

As you could probably guess from my prod, I'm incredibly lurky too. I get the feeling that this is going to be a very slow conversation.


As for the other players:

Selkies: Leaning town. Shares my irritation in unexplained votes, rightly probing Bert on his weak "analysis" of the day thusfar (being inexplicably pro-Muffin while also not giving an alternative target).

Bert: Null-leaning anti-town. Not necessarily scummy, but his posts seem to be lighthearted to the point of being useless (#324 is a prime example). #327 doesn't explain reads, but there's not much point in me even bringing that up anymore, since it's all the rage.

King Kenny:

I'm liking the look of Berts posts so far. They don't seem forced like others. In my opinion I can say he is town.

What does this even mean?

FourTrouble: Going to ISO when I have time. Thinking scum. Reason being: #336 (the Ross vote). Where the hell is that coming from? In #341 he says Ross is "scummier", but just asks for everyone else's opinions. Why? Is this just fishing for reasons? Isn't that too obvious?

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON.

Ross: I'm

specifically not

going to give my read on Ross, just because FourTrouble asked for it. Not that I have one to begin with, but I'm not even going to mention the lack of one. So THERE.

Other players: Will do when it's not 1:51 in the morning.

[Idiotking]

I know. I also know people have a tendency to notice crap votes when they're on them. Doesn't mean it's not nice to see someone irritated by it, though, even if it's self-serving. Lets me pretend I'm not the only one bothered by it, at least. It would be nice if it was more toward the town as a whole, but then I'd be holding out an idiot's hope.

[Idiotking]

Do you have meta with anybody here?

If you're asking who I know here, the only person I know is Katsuki. The only game we've played together was Katsuki's very first game on this site, from all the way back in 2010. I dunno if that's useful to you, but I've only played 2-3 games to completion since then.

Pedit: because you're a special little flower

D'awwwww....

[Idiotking]

Well that escalated quickly. Calm down, guys.

[Idiotking]

But it also stinks of fishing for reasons. The only reason I didn't vote for you based just on that was because you don't seem to be that colossally stupid.

[Idiotking]

Oh, you wound me. My apologies if you guys are too advanced for me, but I've grown fond of training wheels.

Is this to be taken at face value?

...no. I was being sarcastic.

I'm confused, because you seem to be thinking that 1. it was too early to matter that you were sheeping, and 2. it was late enough for people to have valid town reads on you. Those conflict, don't they?

Let me break this down...what lovely smartness in your post here. Does this confusion mean you think how MafiaSSK is thinking is 'unusual?'

The confusion thing was just a turn of phrase. My point was that his thinking was inconsistent, meaning his defense didn't hold up.

What do you think of gut reads in general?

I don't like them in the slightest, because you can't talk about them. They simply exist. If you can't argue in favor of them or against them, they're amazingly useless to my form of scumhunting. I am only barely tolerant of them, simply because the site as a whole seems to accept them as at least minimally valid.

This is puzzling since you are reading Selkies as town based on actions that town (and scum appearing town) make. They appear irritated about unexplained votes and probe people with weak analysis. Is there another reason you're reading the hydra as town?

Does there have to be? If I am leaning town on Selkies because they're doing things that act town, why is that insufficient?

[Idiotking]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Will post something substantive tomorrow.

[Idiotking]

I don't think I like you.

[Idiotking]

Going back any analyzing entire day. Will post results tonight/tomorrow.

Unvote

Because the point of the vote was mostly to pressure someone I didn't see being pressured (and who was doing something that bugged me), and see his reaction. SSK's reaction ultimately was not to react. Poo. At least some town points for that, though, because scum would likely have been more active in their defense, rather than literally saying they won't respond.

[Idiotking]

Hey, that's been my experience. True, you get overly-defensive townies doing it too, but then it's a matter of degree. Scum would try to keep it low-key without making a scene, while still trying to discredit the argument. Overly-defensive townies would make it an all-or-nothing struggle to the death. SSK's response just doesn't seem to mesh with what scum would do in that model.

[Idiotking]

Also, you have one vote on you. Isn't it a bit early for melodramatic warnings?

[Idiotking]

Or you could just not be a spineless little weasel and, y'know, play to your win condition. Seriously, if that's a thing you regularly do I don't know how you're not permabanned yet.

[Idiotking]

For the sake of avoiding a flamewar, I am not going to respond. But you can probably guess what I'm thinking given my tone.

[Idiotking]

Ha, no.

Vote Katsuki

Still working on my summary post, but I'm gonna go ahead and say no to intentional, blatant active-lurking.

[Idiotking]

Didn't I get you lynched as a claimed cop once?

[Idiotking]

Ah, nevermind, it was as a vig. Still fun, though.

[Idiotking]

Also a general question to people who have played with Katsuki:

Does this fit Katsuki's MO? The one game we played together was Katsuki's first game on the site, and it was hilariously bad. I'm assuming she's improved since then, right? At least some?

[Idiotking]

So I'm going to do this person-by-person, alphabetically. Will post a synopsis of major actions thusfar and my analysis of what that means, followed by a read.

Aronis

Started off in #187 by voting Muffin, calling SSK and Fourtrouble town while calling (in #203) Muffin, Selkies, and Katsuki scum. None of these are explained. The only things that had happened so far in the game were the RVS bantering, FourTrouble's Katsuki vote based on Rule 6, and the beginning of the Selkies wagon. In #228 says that the only reason he has those scumreads is because they "seem suspicious" (this is after SSK asks him if it's just because those players had the most votes). In #280, when asked to elaborate by Katsuki, Aronis repeats the "Rule 6 being anti-mafia" thing being suspicious for Katsuki, and implied a Katsuki-Muffin scumteam because Muffin had an unexplained town-read on Katsuki. He then unvotes, without any explanation for why, since he just gave a reason (weak though it may be) for Muffin to be scum. Also note the lack of explanation for a Selkies scumread, even though that was directly requested. In #293 he says the reason he unvoted was because scum would discuss that in their day-QT, and thus drops his reads. In #391 Aronis outright says he's just trying to blend in, because he's not used to MafiaScum play. In #603, he votes Selkies for joking and making a lot of clutter posts (neither of which are scummy; Aronis even says joking isn't an "obvious scumtell", but it's not even slightly scummy, it's null). #642 is a post-by-post defense against Notscience's attacks. OMGUS votes Notscience in #660, without reasoning. Switches to Ross in #677, again without reasoning. In #685 he says he had a NULL read on Ross, he just wanted to move off of a Notscience vote because that wasn't going to go anywhere. Also says he voted Notscience not because he thought he was scum, but because he thought Notscience was an idiot.

Aronis has been scummy to the point of being goofy, but his scumtells are all explainable by the fact that he's brand spanking new (joined Jan. 19th), and he's playing exactly how a dumb newbie would. Unexplained vote switching, OMGUS votes, voting for people he specifically did NOT have a scumread on, etc. are all behaviors of a total newbie. Aronis is at best a VI, and I would be totally ok with a policy lynch on him, because heaven help us if we go into LYLO with him still in tow. However, I cannot honestly say he's any scummier than any other newbie (though this is because I have an incredibly difficult time reading newbies).

Null/VI

-------

Bert

Replaced in in #299. First vote was on Fourtrouble in #313, saying that he didn't buy FourTrouble's explanation for switching to Muffin from Katsuki (because of Muffin's defense of Katsuki because of the Rule 6 thing, Muffin was here and Katsuki wasn't). Questions the Muffin wagon in #314, basically saying Muffin hasn't been present enough to warrant a wagon. In #327 he proclaims null reads across the board except pro-town Muffin (and maybe scum FT), and null-scum on Aronis because of weird Muffin vote/unvote. In #358, says FT asking for everybody's thoughts on Ross (before giving his own) didn't feel "sincere". There were also a few comments here and there about Ross and Goodfather appearing townie, but says Ross might just be his "2007 playstyle". Also scattered around a lot is discussion about VisCon 1523 or something, where apparently Bert did badly. In #431 votes Ross because Ross's comment about "I think we'll find scum" felt cautious. Also says that 90% of his reads are gut, and demands that we don't ask him about them. In #440 he goes ahead and lists his reads anyway. Sigh. Only scumreads are Ross and FT, so at least there are no contradictions, and his explanation for those reads also meshes with what he stated earlier. In #474, he says that what he doesn't find convincing about the Muffin wagon is FT's argument that it was scummy for Muffin to say Katsuki was too scummy to be scum because of Katsuki's argument about Rule 6 being unfair to scum (also of note, writing this sentence has given me a nosebleed). All the while he is saying why he gets FT's reasons for doing pretty much everything, including FT's Aronis and Kenny townreads. There was some back and forth here, but I can't follow it. Next vote was on Katsuki in #504, with reasoning (I'm guessing) being Katsuki saying Selkies is scum because it's in their role PM. Disses Ross's argument about Katsuki not being scum because scum would not check out on D1 (#525). In #680, says the Aronis and Katsuki wagons are easy to latch onto. I don't know what this means; does that mean they are easy wagons, and thus we should vote for them? Or that they are easy wagons, and thus scum would vote for them? In #689, says he has a 50/50 read on Katsuki and Aronis both, but saying they are both conventionally scummy, while switching his vote to Selkies. In #690 he upgrades the 50/50 to gut-town reads on both. In #699 he goes ahead and switches to Aronis (a townread) because he proclaims a town read on Cabd and Notscience (the two people who were pushing him for an Aronis lynch). In #750, after he has ONE vote on himself, he warns the town that he will self-hammer at L-1. I would lynch just for this.

Bert has made basically constant references to past games, acting as though he's been laughably scummy, saying he's been regularly policy lynched, and most recently saying that he's prone to self-voting at L-1. This all stinks of appeal to emotion to me, because "woe is me, I get picked on so much because I am bad". It happens often enough (at least once every 10 of his 80-some odd posts) that it seems calculated. There's just no reason for him to hammer down his VI history so much if he were a townie. Mentioning it once, maybe twice, sure, if you're the self-loathing type, but over and over and over again? It looks intentional. The alternative is that Bert is really just that defensive, but he's doing it with 0 or 1 vote on him. NOBODY should be that kneejerk defensive. Overall this is scummy to me because it's putting too much effort into not getting lynched compared to trying to actually scumhunt. As for the gut reads, I don't like them, because it's easy for scum to fake them if the site as a whole says they're OK, but since it's just a playstyle thing I will let them pass. The Ross and FT votes at least had some reasoning behind them, and they were consistent, but the Aronis vote is pathetic, and seems sheep-y. Sure, Aronis is an easy policy lynch, but JUST after professing a town read? AND after saying that we wouldn't get any info from the lynch? That just smells of opportunism. Also, the circumstances behind his Aronis vote make me wonder about a Bert/Cabd/Notscience connection, though at this point I am unsure of other evidence; will watch for further developments.

As a side note Bert, you need to talk less and with more substance. You are way, way too chatty, and it's clogging up the damn thread. It's nearly impossible to tell which of your posts are worth looking at and which aren't. Condense, at least.

Leaning Scum

-------------------

Cabd

Votes Selkies in #27, looks like a RVS vote. Confirmed later during the RVS chatter. #227, Goodfather townread without reasoning. #233, Aronis vote, again without reasoning. #237, defends his Aronis vote by saying that Aronis being new does not preclude him from being scum, and implying that Cabd has some special newb-reading superpower. Activity takes a nosedive about now, to the point of calling

himself

out in #368. Lots of active lurking, presumably because of illness. In #520 we finally see some reasoning for the Aronis vote, that being that Cabd "didn't like the entry" or SSK's defense of Aronis that Aronis is just new. #547, Cabd calls out people on the Selkies wagon, asking for reasoning (all but Katsuki). People on the Selkies wagon at this point were Muffin, Kaboom, Goodfather, and Katsuki. After this there's a bit of back and forth with Muffin about Muffin's Selkies read, but doesn't post any analysis (just some "waiting for your wallpost" type posts). In #646 calls out selkies wagon again, specifically Kaboom, Goodfather, and Aronis (who had just joined it). In #697 says "Really, bert?" to Bert's explanation that the reason he doesn't want an Aronis vote was because there would be little information gained from the lynch. This is one of the two (very slight) pushes that makes Bert switch his vote to Aronis (see above). In #713 says that some of ffery's (who is one of the Selkies heads, I've gathered (I r such a gud detektiv)) responses seem "off", specifically quoting Selkies' #703. In #719 Cabd does not answer Selkies question about the Aronis vote except that "he's scum".

Cabd's play has been consistently lurky (though at least some of it with good reason), but has not done a whole lot even when present. He questioned the people on the Selkies wagon, about their reasoning, but never followed up. I would give Cabd townie points for calling out his own lurking in 368, but given his overtly hostile reaction to the suggestion that it was intentional, I'm not sure this is townie, because any such pressure would have just led to that reaction. Cabd also seems to want reasoning for votes, but gives very weak reasons himself, such as voting Aronis because he "didn't like the entry". What the hell does that even mean? That's basically a non-response. It's equivalent to saying "because I think he's scummy" (which, note, he did in #719). The SSK-defending-Aronis-because-of-newness thing is at least a genuine reason, but seems too weak to carry a vote to me, especially considering there are other people doing more scummy things. Ultimately this is a null read, because the lurking combined with the odd mix of towntells (wanting to know the reasoning from folks on the Selkies wagon) and scumtells (having crap reasons for his vote on Aronis, minor potential for a connection with Bert) kind of just makes a big bowl of meh.

Null

--------------------

FourTrouble

First vote was on Katsuki in #32, reasoning being the Rule 6 thing. Posts reason in #134, that being that scum would be more interested in attacking an anti-scum rule (this is crap reasoning as has been mentioned by many players many times). Starting in post #159, FT begins bickering with Muffin over the Rule 6 Katsuki vote, leading to a vote on Muffin at #178, reasoning being that Muffin was present, with the underlying reasoning being that Muffin was defending Katsuki for making a pro-scum argument about Rule 6, so by association Muffin is scum. This goes on for some time. At post #336 there is the switch to Ross (while calling Selkies town without explaining why). The Ross vote is unexplained, but later FT asks for other people's thoughts on Ross before he will give his own. In #327 says Selkies, SSK, Bert, and Goodfather are town, but doesn't say why. In #341 he says his Muffin vote was because Muffin was overcompensating in the Katsuki defense, going so far as to say Katsuki was TOWN because of that argument. In #414 he gives his reason for voting Ross, which boils down to Ross using IIOA, and that Ross's posts seem "fake". Also calls out Ross for saying we should go after easy lynches because they (Aronis and SSK) "could" be scum. After defending his delayed-reasoning for the Ross vote, he calls a Ross/Muffin/Katsuki scumteam in #449. Posts a full list of reads in #457 consistent with past reads. Strangely claims that one post is all that is necessary to determine a read - unless it's a major screwup I don't think that's true, but whatever. Most posts since have been consistent with this without adding much. In #633 he responds to Notscience's post-by-post calling out Aronis. In the response he effectively just calls Aronis "weak town", saying weak townies spend their time trying to survive as well, rather than scumhunt. His defense boils down to Aronis being stupid, and therefore town, somehow? (as above, I say Null/VI). Spends a lot of time after this asking other players for their reads.

I'm getting a town lean from all of this. Yeah, the Katsuki/Muffin thing was stupid, but considering how long FT kept it up, and considering how controversial it wound up being, it seems town, because scum would have let go eventually, while FT still stands by it. This is probably just FT being stubborn, but scum have a strong reason to NOT be stubborn, so town points. I also like the constantly demanding people for reads thing, it keeps people on their toes. The only major gripe is the Ross non-explanation-for-vote thing, which just seemed very weird. As I said before, I don't think FT was stupid enough to do something that overtly scummy if he was scum, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, especially since he did follow up with (at least seemingly-though-out) reasoning later. FT's reads have also been remarkably consistent, which is a plus.

Town

--------

Idiotking

This would be kind of pointless.

Hell if I know, I didn't read my PM

-----------

Kabooom

Joined at #254, gave an unreasoned vote for Selkies in #355, actively refused to scumhunt in #435, and proddodged in #612.

Lurker is lurking.

Null/Anti-town

--------------

Katsuki

Made the oft-mentioned statement that Rule 6 was anti-scum in #24. Voted Selkies in #253, no reasoning. Said SSK's defense of Aronis based on newness was "interesting". Blatant active lurking ever since.

Lurking is bad. ACTUALLY SAYING YOU ARE GOING TO INTENTIONALLY LURK FOR MULTIPLE DAYS is worse. Also, voting. What do YOU think my read is?

Scum/Actively Playing Against Win-con If Town

--------------

MafiaSSK

Bunch of RVS chatter at first, though a decent point about how Selkies-town shouldn't be classifying players as strong/weak. Said Katsuki was giving Nat pre-game advice about Rule 6 rather than being scummy (post #131), but then sheeps FT's Katsuki vote in #135. In #166 sheeps Muffin's counterargument about Katsuki Rule 6 thing and goes back to voting Selkies (was the RVS vote). Reasoning (per #172) being gut. More chatter. Says Muffin is town in #202, later says Muffin is overdefending Katsuki, and votes Muffin (following Selkies' reasoning) in #231. Defends Aronis from Cabd's attack in #236, saying Aronis is new, and thus town? I guess? Later in #240 says the defense was just because new people wouldn't explain their scumreads (oh come on, you can't ALL be new, people). Note that Cabd's vote was unexplained, so why did SSK assume that was the reason? #263 was the start of our little adventure, ultimately leading to a wallpost that I assume was supposed to be impressive in length. Basically lurked until #467, when he said he wasn't going to respond to me anymore (so I guess that's lurking too). Nothing much since then, still seems pretty intent on Muffin and nobody else.

I still don't like the sheeping, because it's weaksauce and lets you coast without scumhunting. And coasting is what SSK has been doing pretty much the entire game. Has ONLY focused on Muffin the entire time, from what I've seen. Defense of Aronis was strange, not just because of how unwarranted it was, but because he automatically assumed Cabd was voting because of the lack of explanation for scumreads. It seems overeager, and thus scummy. While I share the view that Aronis is newbie and thus his scumtells seem to largely be newbie mistakes, I don't think this absolves Aronis of anything; I'd be OK with an Aronis policy lynch. SSK seems to think otherwise. Town props for not breaking under my pressure outweighed by general scumminess.

Leaning Scum

-------------

notscience

Replaced in at #600. Votes Aronis in #615, doesn't give a reason beyond quoting Aronis' out-of-nowhere Muffin vote (though it does sort of speak for itself). Calls out SSK's defense of Aronis as being lynchworthy if Aronis flips scum. Calls Katsuki town for also calling out SSK and asking why people think she is scum. #616, calls me out for posting IIOA (which I admit is something I have a tendency to default to on D1, though if my #261 counts as IIOA this post is gonna make him shit bricks). Also doesn't seem to like policy lynches. Asks why there aren't any wagons on me or Aronis. Seems to inexplicably take a liking to Bert without showing any reason why that should be a thing. Votes Aronis again in #621, just to be double-sure, I guess. Does a post-by-post analysis of Aronis' play in #629, with the takeaway being "He's hardcore lurking and trying to sit in the background and push popular wagons in an attempt to blend in and survive". More explanation of thoughts in #730, in response to questions from FT. More stuff, later calls folks out for not posting a lot.

I hate to say it, but this looks town to me. Very prompt catch-up post, latches on to Aronis immediately and doesn't let go, actually posts reasons for his scumtells (at least when asked) and the reasons make sense. My major complaints are playstyle/gametheory complaints (for example, I like policy lynches by preference, but he seems to think it's scummy) (also I don't like people who make a lot of very little posts, I like few, big posts), and obviously those aren't scumtells. The only big, potentially legitimate issue is the kneejerk Bert and Katsuki town reads, but I'm trying to shelf my bitter hatred of gut reads for this game, else I go mad. However, treating Bert like they are obviously town together is obnoxious, and is a major factor in my thinking there is a connection. Other than that though, everything seems perfectly town.

Town

Will post reads on Ross, Selkies, Goodfather, and Muffin tomorrow/Saturday, but as it sits (before I determine those reads), I would lynch Aronis on policy, Bert for actively calling attention to past bad play as a ploy to woo town into thinking he's town, or Katsuki for just generally being awful. SSK would wait until I saw an Aronis flip, due to a major part of the case against him being the silly Aronis defense.

[Idiotking]

I would lynch Aronis on

policy

, Bert for actively calling attention to past bad play as a ploy to woo town into thinking he's town, or Katsuki for

just generally being awful

. SSK would wait until I saw an Aronis flip, due to a major part of the case against him being the silly Aronis defense.

Awful/policy =/= scum

Not necessarily, but I am not above lynching anti-town players regardless of alignment. It forces the town to actually play to win, and keeps scum from having an excuse to be lazy and not post. Like or dislike my reasoning, at least I'm talking, and substantively. You can't really say the same for some of our players (such as kabooooom or Katsuki). The alternative is letting Katsuki-scum coast until D3 before being useful, and that would be fucking

retarded.

Calling Katsuki "actively playing against win condition" is overdoing it

Howso?

as is all the stuff about Aronis being a dumb VI and worthy of a policy lynch when he's a total newbie.

Just preference. I am, as a rule, OK with policy lynching people I cannot read. I cannot read total newbies. And the whole dumb VI thing was just because ALL newbies are dumb VI's, at least in my experience. It is because of that that I cannot read them.

actually link to the posts you're referring to instead of just providing numbers to each posts. Would make your wall easier to follow...

This is already taking enough of my time to do, and you want me to do even MORE? How about YOU do more, you so and so, you.
(I would have used links if I had remembered how)

[Idiotking]

Also, do you have any thoughts on my read on

you

, bert? Seems odd that you would defend Aronis and Katsuki, but not yourself.

[Idiotking]

Ah, but now you're wanting me to play like YOUR playstyle, focusing on emotion and tone rather than logic while "interacting" (I read as chatting) with other people more. If it's just a playstyle thing, why do you have a gut-scum read on me then? Oh wait, nevermind, because we can't talk about those. My mistake.

[Idiotking]

As for pure scumhunting, I use logic tells, POE, and NK analysis mostly. Emotion and tone are only rarely useful to me, because both town and scum are people, and will have emotional responses regardless. They may help gut reads, but since I don't like gut reads for aforementioned reasons, I don't look at them, unless they are "elephant in the room" levels of major.

Does that answer your question?

[Idiotking]

What do you mean by "heebie jeebies?"

I mean, I would think it would look scummy, because it's a self-serving change of stance due to pressure, but apparently logic tells aren't a thing anymore. So what does "heebie jeebies" mean?

[Idiotking]

So basically the only difference is that it's still a scumtell, but since you can call it gut, you don't have to explain why. OK. So this is what I have to work with.

[Idiotking]

Well, to keep with the times, I'm not going bother doing an in-depth analysis on any more of my reads.

Muffin is scum
Selkies is scum
Ross is scum
Muffin is scum

and don't you dare ask why.

[Idiotking]

Yes, you heard me right, Muffin is THAT much scum.

[Idiotking]

Also to keep up with the times, how about this:

I am going to

Unvote

Vote Aronis

For no better reason than other people are doing it, and sheeping is apparently not scummy anymore.
I am only going to post prod-dodge posts until D3, because apparently lurking is not scummy.
I am no longer going to put any thought into any of my votes, because hey, it's just my gut instinct, man, and that ain't scummy.

You have taught me well, guys. I will not disappoint you!

[Idiotking]

This is true, we are neighbors. Though it seems odd for Muffin to claim now instead of Aronis, and when Muffin spent most of the early part of the QT shooting down my idea to D1 claim.

[Idiotking]

Specifically, the only things that Aronis has said in the QT are wanting to kill Selkies, tell Cabd "what I think" (I think referring to the Cabd-illness-thing) and saying he has a town read on bert. I tried pressing him on an Aronis-bert scumteam, the theory being bert's weak vote on Aronis as a kind of half-assed bus, but Aronis didn't respond. The QT is almost exclusively me and Muffin talking.

[Idiotking]

I would kill to be a day vig right now.

[Idiotking]

Neighbors don't know each other's alignments, no.

[Idiotking]

I'm not a neighborizer, just a neighbor.

I knew who my neighbors were from the start, not later.

[Idiotking]

As I mentioned having said in the neighbor QT, I suspect an Aronis-Bert scumteam due to mutual unexplained town reads and bert's hilariously awful Aronis vote (looking like a half-assed bus). It's not pure policy: an Aronis flip would aid my read on bert. So don't spin it as purely random, bert.

[Idiotking]

I liked zmuffin's comment that Aronis would be getting heavy coaching if he were the scum in a neighborhood.

But see though, it's entirely possible he DID get coaching, and they told him to shut up. He has, for all intents and purposes, been dead silent throughout the QT, with only a few very minor substantive things, such as asking Muffin what his read was for bert, with the explanation that Aronis thought bert was town. That is honestly the only serious thing he's said. He's been very mopey, saying he's going to get lynched, and Muffin seems to think that seems to be a town sentiment. Me, I think that's just a guy being fatalist, regardless of alignment. Other than that there's nothing to go on in the QT.

[Idiotking]

Do you want me to just hammer to aid your read on me?

Cute.

[Idiotking]

So that's OMGUS, then?

[Idiotking]

So bert is under the assumption that I am just policy lynching Aronis while not thinking he is scum, while Aronis thinks I'm convinced he's scum without a doubt.

Am I really that confusing?

[Idiotking]

Also, bullshit on the Ross-vote-thing. The only two things Ross really did after you voted him was give you a pep talk and vote me after I switched my vote to you. He's been MIA since. So why the town read now? Pure convenience?

[Idiotking]

None of those are real explanations for the read change, no matter how noble they look.

[Idiotking]

Could you elaborate on your bert read?

[Idiotking]

I am willing to hammer Ross if nobody else shows up to avoid a no-lynch Rule 6 thing. I'm going to try forming a read to see if I think he's scummy, but since the Aronis wagon is dissolving and we really, really don't want a random lynch, consider this intent to hammer regardless.

[Idiotking]

You realize we're about 3 hours away from the deadline, right?

[Idiotking]

Oh nevermind, I'm stupid. Nat's posts actually have a timer in them. I thought that was just the time left when he posted.

[Idiotking]

Still, 12 hours. Where is your vote?

[Idiotking]

See, this read seems to have been pretty consistent throughout the day, but then why did you vote for Aronis in 699?

[Idiotking]

you didn't seriously just sign your post

[Idiotking]

NS, I don't read Ross as voting you for replacing in, so much as getting everyone to think he's scum when you did. Ross was right to begin with, it's a big pile of OMGUS.

[Idiotking]

Hmm.

Well then maybe he's just stupid.

Anyway, from what I can tell, both of the major wagons are at L-3. 6 hours from the deadline. THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED

[Idiotking]

Consider this intent to hammer.

Ross, do you have any last words?

[Idiotking]

DAMMIT BERT

[Idiotking]

Bert, are you actively trying to prevent us from getting a majority?

[Idiotking]

You'd better be. Half the town seems to want to lurk right at the end of the day, and so I sort of doubt we'll see any sudden appearances.

[Idiotking]

And hammer.

Unvote

Vote Ross

I really, really hate you, Bert.

[Idiotking]

Should be, yeah.

[Idiotking]

While part of me approves of this sentiment, Aronis, the turnaround is suspicious. Why are you all of a sudden saying things that sound town? Seems... scummy to me.

But as I said,

Vote Katsuki

I agree with the sentiment.

Will post something substantive over the weekend. For now I'll say that I'm not surprised FT was killed, considering most everybody believed he was town.

[Idiotking]

So I start acting like Town and now I'm even more scummy?

Funny world, ain't it?

The line of reasoning is that NOW it looks like coaching. You did pretty crap yesterday and are now (at least in my view) suddenly picking up. That looks like coaching after a near-miss. I will be considering that as I review yesterday.

[Idiotking]

OBVIOUSLY I know that all factions have day-talk, we're IN one. Frankly I figure yesterday your scum-mates (assuming you are scum) would have written you off for dead, whereas overnight they could have tried prepping you for a strong start today, since you dodged a bullet.

[Idiotking]

Translation: It never had a point to begin with.

[Idiotking]

Car broken down on side of road

Will post eventually

[Idiotking]

Still alive, will catch up tomorrow.

[Idiotking]

For the folks who have been wondering why I dropped off the map, it's interview season at my law school, and my workload was much higher than normal. It still is, but I should be able to catch up with the game over the weekend. My apologies for being a shitty lurker this week.

[Idiotking]

Also, Cabd, shoot Katsuki. Please. You'd be doing us all a big favor. I'll give you all the change in my pocket if you do.

Also, considering we have (claimed):

3 neighbors
1 compulsive n2 one-shot vig (hell of a lot of descriptors there, eh?)
1 doctor

I say it's time for a massclaim.

[Idiotking]

Also, there is a thing going on in the QT that I am doing a thing about. Yes. Aronis, respond please.

[Idiotking]

@Katsuki: If you don't want to play then fucking replace out. If you are town, you are just being a huge distraction.

[Idiotking]

See, this is what happens when people go so far against policy lynching. It encourages people to just not play, period. You can't kill them, because then you're not scumhunting, which means they aren't incentive to play any harder. Which means you can't get any reads on them, which means you CAN'T scumhunt. It effectively limits the town's targets to people who are active, giving people who AREN'T active a free pass. That just sucks the life right out of Mafia. I don't care if the meta changes, I don't care if people start looking for different kinds of tells, THIS is the real scourge of MafiaScum, and it will kill the game.

As it sits, we would not be able to get a good read of Katsuki's play until D4 or D5.

This is bullshit.

That's entirely too late in the game, because we'll be focusing on everybody else. So a policy lynch/policy vig is our ONLY way to avoid that. Sure, it may be sub-optimal for any given game, but in the aggregate it would improve the play quality of the site as a whole. So for heaven's sake, Cabd, shoot Katsuki.

[Idiotking]

I'm going to hold back my surprise at our two habitual lurkers being upset at my anti-lurker pro-policylynch rant post.

[Idiotking]

Also,

You're asking vig to POLICY instead of shooting scum.

This only applies if you are not scum, and we have no reason to think otherwise at the moment. And by your playstyle, we wouldn't have any reason to think ANYTHING until a much later day. So yeah, you should totally be policied (policized?).

[Idiotking]

We don't know that you're members of the town, and you really, really aren't playing the game if you do nothing but lurk.

[Idiotking]

Also, I want policy-shooting, not policy-lynching. As for lynching, I'm still leaning toward Aronis, partially due to his sudden D2 turnaround and partially due to the thing in the QT.

[Idiotking]

The wagons on you could be town-led. Are you implying that wagons are exclusively a tool for scum?
Most of your posts are complete shit.
Votes can be done in prod-dodges.

[Idiotking]

I think it's cute how your most substantive posts (read: only) have been defensive rage-posts.

[Idiotking]

Oh, do you want me to get into what substantive means? We can go back into that. I'm back into being active in this game.
And at least the debate we had last time were about actual posts in this game rather than fucking meta.
If you wanna call me scum Idiotking, if you want to see me dead, give me a case, rather than going to this lurker bullshit.

I gave you a case a while ago. It hasn't budged at all, because your play hasn't changed/improved any. You're acting as though I hadn't mentioned a case against you at all before.

Also, I didn't say I wanted YOU dead. You get spared purely based on your claim, because that's something we could potentially tool around with. Or scum could kill you and we get to see your flip. Katsuki lacks that kind of insulation from lynching/NK-ing.

Seriously, you're defending your playstyle, when I'm not even directly attacking you. YOU have been doing better than Katsuki in this game, albeit while still sucking. Katsuki is the one who should be shot, not you. So why are you so damn defensive of your playstyle as a whole? If you disagree with me, fine, say that, but don't get all persecution-complexy.

[Idiotking]

Wouldn't the fact that you know that's not your scum-meta completely invalidate that as an accurate tell on you?

[Idiotking]

Straight from the wiki:

""Self meta" or "personal meta" is the practice of referring to your own tendencies in game, usually for the purpose of trying to 'prove' yourself Town or disprove an argument that you are scum. Because the player is obviously aware of their own tells, however, and their true alignment is not yet known in that game, self meta is best viewed with at least a shaker of salt; they could be playing to avoid their own tells, after all."

So basically, no. That isn't a good enough defense for you, Katsuki.

[Idiotking]

Actually,

Unvote

Vote Aronis

Because we really, really need to talk, Aronis.

[Idiotking]

Unless you thought you could get away with it.

It's sad because I'm never gonna get lynched this game anyways.

[Idiotking]

Since lynchproof isn't normal, I can't imagine a reason that won't be cocky as hell.

Regardless, the very simple scum motivation for your playstyle is this: if site meta says lurkers are anti-town and not scum, and anti-town players do not deserve to be killed (because if that's the case then the town isn't scumhunting), then it is an altogether reasonable conclusion that scum should lurk; the more blatant the better. Really, I'd be giddy if you were doing this right now to prove a point.

It's like Cabd (I think) said on D1. With the current meta, some people could just lurk to victory.
But I guess you wouldn't have read that.

[Idiotking]

Well that's rude. I'm going to have my dog poop on your lawn.

[Idiotking]

Aronis, Muffin, and I are in the neighborhood.

[Idiotking]

Started as a neighborhood.

[Idiotking]

Also, why the vote?

[Idiotking]

So here's how I see things:

Assume that 1 of the neighborhood is scum, and assume that there are 3 scum (which I think is about average for this size of game). I don't think Nat would be so cruel as to make there be two scum in the neighborhood.

We have 11 players.
-3 neighbors is 8 players.
1 has claimed a confirmable role (at least so far as confirming a distinct NK), so most likely is not scum.
1 has claimed a doc (which can be verified either via getting scum NK-d or by blocking a scum kill.)
That leaves 6 players with about 2 of them being scum. Assuming Cabd is telling the truth (which he most likely is, because why would scum false-claim a confirmable role?), we have a shot at killing 2 of these players, 1 with a lynch and 1 with a NK.

I think it would be wise for Cabd to specify who is going to shoot tonight, and have SSK protect someone else (or have Cabd put up a short list and SSK protect someone else). On the off chance that Cabd lists town in the shortlist, scum won't want to run the risk of double-shooting and wasting a NK, so if one of Cabd's list is killed we will have reason to trust him. It also means that SSK will be putting his potential protection somewhere where 1. it won't be blocking our vig confirm and 2. it will have the highest chance of blocking a scum kill.


As for the neighborhood, both Muffin and I are thinking Aronis is scum. For me at least this would be boosted by a bert flip, because I'm still thinking Aronis and bert are scum together.

[Idiotking]

or by blocking a scum kill.

Nokill gambit is a thing.

OK, then he'll be confirmed if he dies. The point was more that he shouldn't be on our list of targets for today, and I think that's the general consensus anyway.

On the off chance

This is freaking me out. It's statistically more likely that I do than not so why this wording?

Ideally your list would consist of scum, aided by scumhunting. It's statistically more likely based on random chance, but we shouldn't just leave it up to that.

[Idiotking]

To specify the "slip", the post was something completely out of joint with what our discussion had been. I assumed that it was because he had mixed up a scum QT and the neighborhood QT. His only real defense was that he was playing a lot of different games, but that isn't something that can be verified without breaking the rules (specifically him having a QT in those other games).

[Idiotking]

Why?

[Idiotking]

The mod cleared it beforehand, if that's what you're wondering.

[Idiotking]

Another QT update, Aronis is now refusing to post at all.

[Idiotking]

Oh no, he'll drive us straight into a ditch.

[Idiotking]

Quick question, bert:

When exactly

is

it a good time to lynch people who are being comically scummy? You seem to think that being very scummy is a towntell, so I'm kind of curious when exactly you would kill someone like that.

[Idiotking]

Also, 2014! woo....

[Idiotking]

newbtown are often comically scummy. for vet players, some playstyles like phokdapolees or theirishpope are also comically scummy regardless, but even Cabd had a way to read TIP and still does. so there's a way to read comically scummy players if u look past the conventional scumtell stuff

You did not answer my question.

[Idiotking]

when they are comically scummy in a way that you feel is scum. your read on Aronis might be right, for all i know. i don't think he's scum. see how ffery said that Aronis seems newbtown? several people have said that this game, so it's not just me. matter of opinion and having to discern in games between lots of comically scummy players, rather than lynch them one by one and possibly lose and let the strong scum players slip by

In general, though, would you want the comically scummy players to all survive into LYLO?

[Idiotking]

How would you know?

[Idiotking]

I just had a crazy thought, don't lynch me for it!, What if there was a Cabd-SSK scum team. Cabd gets the town to pick a target, then if they are town, use the scumkill on them and SSK blocks the fake scumkill and claims the person he protected was the third scum. Or if the target is a Mafia, SSK blocks Cabd's kill bc he thinks they are town and the scum just random kill someone. It's crazy and unrealistic, but I've seen it happen.

1. You're a self-professed newbie. Where did you see it happen?
2. That would take balls of granite, and would put Cabd (who nobody really seemed to profess as scumread on) in unnecessary spotlight. This alone makes it unlikely.
3. This conclusion is not supported by Cabd's earlier mention of a no-kill gambit in response to my statement that SSK could be cleared by blocking a scumkill. In other words, Cabd is not shoring up any sort of town credit for SSK based on SSK's claim, which he would want to do following your theory.
4. This sounds like an attempt to deflect attention.

[Idiotking]

she basically wilted and sounded real nervous interacting with Cabd, very resigned sounding

And this is indicative of alignment how?

[Idiotking]

But I don't think you would be self-defeating. Crazy maybe, but not plain stupid.

[Idiotking]

Howso?

[Idiotking]

...Ok... so what?

[Idiotking]

Oh, sorry, I meant, how was I taking that post overboard?

[Idiotking]

Ok,

Unvote

Vote MafiaSSK

That is total and utter bullshit. You voted Selkies twice early on, and never stated a townread on them. You started D2 swinging immediately, by that I mean you voted Selkies within 1 page of the start of D2 and stayed for pretty much forever. If you were just coming off of protecting him,

why would you do that?

[Idiotking]

...er, yeah, what Muffin said.

[Idiotking]

The vote is because you're lying. I'm OK with gambits, but you're already claiming doc, and there is no good reason for you to lie about having protected Selkies. Meaning you are either dumb, or having to fake a protect on someone who is the top wagon at the moment, because you aren't actually the doc.

Also, your A,B, and C are just terrible, terrible reasons for your vote-following-protect. Just terrible, in ways that I'm not even sure how to put into words.

[Idiotking]

But screw it, I'm going to try to respond to them anyway.

A. The read wasn't strong. But then why would I protect Selkies? Because Selkies was a townread and was at least giving content when no one else would.

This would only make sense if you had absolutely no stronger town reads. Although from my reading you didn't state one, you also went completely incognito about halfway through D1. Now if you were still paying attention (like you say you did), then you would pretty much have to have a stronger town read. For example, Cabd. You apparently thought positively enough of Cabd to IMMEDIATELY sheep his vote against Selkies. This stinks of contradiction.

B. Cabd, who also had been townreading Selkies, was seemingly significantly into his vote on Selkies.

And this means... what? Isn't this only helpful to you if you had a townread on Cabd? And if you did,

then why wouldn't you have protected Cabd instead?

C. Selkies never did prove their towniness.

Unless you're dead,

that is impossible.

[Idiotking]

I really feel like we shouldn't be letting this wagon to less than 2 days. Can we end this soon so that there's no flashwagon?

Also, this sounds just scummy as hell.

[Idiotking]

Now see, this might just be a thing.

[Idiotking]

Why are they more scum than you?

[Idiotking]

Why are they more scum than you?

Because you only think I'm scum because we disagree on the fundamentals of mafia.
Selkies has actual reasoning behind them.

And those reasons are...?

[Idiotking]

I was hoping his case was more than just "Eh, Cabd says so."

[Idiotking]

I dunno.

2216 sounds made up, by the way.

[Idiotking]

If I die, I'm going to use my Cabd-enabled vengeful townie kill on you, bert.

[Idiotking]

Actually, do I want to revenge kill bert or Aronis? I've got scumreads on both of them, and taking out Aronis would put the neighborhood down to 1, which would most likely either make Muffin scum or I would take out scum-Aronis with me. Since there is a possibility that all of the neighborhood is town, I would want to make sure Muffin (who seems a hell of a lot more town than Aronis) is the survivor. On the other hand, bert's been acting like a complete psycho all game, and his mercurial actions so far would be neat for analysis.

On yet another hand, revenge killing SSK would most likely take out a scum due to the fact he is almost certainly scum. The alternative (that he used his N1 protect on a scumread) would just be so, so dumb.

Dammit, so many choices!

[Idiotking]

How's this:

(Bert, Aronis, SSK)
There's the vig pool, Cabd. If I die, shoot one of these people. Your choice.

[Idiotking]

And the wagon on me

wasn't

quick?

[Idiotking]

Which looked like it went along with your first thing of "cases on SSK are crap".

[Idiotking]

I like how the end of this day we've all become some sort of support group.

[Idiotking]

Depends on the doc and depends on the neighbor. SSK, if you really are a doc, and if you survive today, please, PLEASE don't waste your protect this time. It should be painfully obvious to you who you need to protect.

Also, if that is all it took that convinced you, you were just looking for an excuse.

[Idiotking]

Since it looks like I am today's lynch, you people need to look long and hard and the guys lynching me. NS and Bert especially have been playacting as a "town block" since forever. They've also been doing this with Katsuki/Guyett. You people seriously need to examine this and consider the possibility that at least 2 of them are scum, because other than Katsuki, they haven't gotten anywhere near as much heat as they should have.

[Idiotking]

DON'T YOU FUCKING DARE, BERT. YOU PUT THAT VOTE BACK ON RIGHT NOW.

[Idiotking]

Because he's doing the exact same thing as last time, trying to switch up the votes at the last second to keep there from being a lynch. He's trying to avoid looking bad when a town dies because of a wagon he started. He and his cronies NEED TO BE PICKED APART TOMORROW.

Cabd, once again, I'm changing my answer. When I die, shoot Bert and only Bert.

[Idiotking]

Unvote

Vote Bert

Because yes.

[Idiotking]

That post is so self-contradicting that it would collapse a star.

[Idiotking]

Yes, and then Muffin should hammer on D3 and make it a hat trick! /sarcasm

[Idiotking]

I love hockey.

Also, this game is great in that it's a fitting end for me solo-ing. I have a chip on my shoulder that I will have tomorrow as I fight a lynch and show that I can withstand it. Micro 290's calm is something I'm building on.

This implies that you

know

I'm town.

[Idiotking]

Howso?

[Idiotking]

Look at the two posts above this one and tell me that isn't suspicious.

[Idiotking]

Maybe you shouldn't have said that and just lynched SSK when it happened.

[Idiotking]

The unclaimed players are NS, bert, and Nacho.

Imagine that.

[Idiotking]

You know "Twitch Plays Pokemon"? This town is Red.

[Idiotking]

Claim.

[Idiotking]

Yeah, I could see that. At this point not claiming is retarded. Well over half the town has already claimed.

[Idiotking]

Welp, since it's down to the wire,

Unvote

Vote MafiaSSK

Barring a sudden flashwagon again, I look forward to the spectator/dead QT. But seriously, you guys, you need to look at that "town block" that got this flash wagon on me. It's absurd. Also, if I were you, if bert and Nacho don't claim in their very next posts, lynch them tomorrow.

[Idiotking]

But I'm a

friendly

neighbor. Like Mr. Rogers, if he was irritable and cussed like a sailor.

[Idiotking]

No, I want you shot tonight. You're depriving me of that.

[Idiotking]

Yeah, fuck it.

Unvote

Vote Nacho

It's really crap to go MIA right at the end of a day phase.

[Idiotking]

I want a non-random lynch. We have 3 hours from the deadline. The town is in a deadlock, like always. If/when you get put back at L-1, I'll gladly put it back on you.

[Idiotking]

Then lynch me. I die, bert dies, town's better off no matter how you spin it. Aaaand GO!

[Idiotking]

And if Bert flips scum?

[Idiotking]

The setup was amazing. The problems were that nobody seemed to anticipate how weird it would be, and the town was completely all over the place. I really, really wanted the game to end in a Selkies random lynch, that would have fit this town's strategy perfectly: fail your way to victory.