NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Casso the King of Seals]

@ Maraca, in hindsight I don't like your push on Tammy. You are presenting the goal as pro-town (Tammy looks obvtown after your push). But Tammy looks obvtown in many games even when not accused of being scum. The only thing your push did was discourage a competent town player from posting much which subtly eliminates a threat without having to nightkill her just by breaking her. Tammy is right that her FOS on you would likely be taken less seriously because you upset her and you come out looking good from the exchange for having done this "pro-town" thing of making Tammy look obvtown. Your push looks like it served a scum wincon much more than a town one. I miss Tammy's contributions to the game (she is the only one I have a mutual townread on so probably the only one I can work with at this point) and I am not happy with it. Your read on Rofl makes no sense. How does Rofl look town?

I thought that the way he approached the gambits was a pretty town way, and the result was that he ended up pushing on high hanging fruit for an amount of time when only benefit is buddying up with Tammy, which is possible but seems unlikely from F-16 scum.

[MC Maraca]

could happen after I die <3

but, seriously?

[Bert]

If you iso'd what I did prior to the last ten pages of noise today, then your foot wouldn't be in your mouth lol

<3

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I'll be out the whole day tomorrow, and

might

check in before the deadline on the 26th, but in case I don't.

Unvote
Vote: MafiaSSK

Feel free to call this bussing if he flips town. That's likely to be the only piece of information you'll get from the wagon *shrug*

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Also I am literally only doing this because I want a lynch before I lose my sanity.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I'll be out the whole day tomorrow, and

might

check in before the deadline on the 26th, but in case I don't.

Unvote
Vote: MafiaSSK

Feel free to call this bussing if he flips town. That's likely to be the only piece of information you'll get from the wagon *shrug*

scum*

[Bert]

Happy holidays dude.

Hope he flips scum too.

[geists]

We haven't talked about SSK in a while but Nati did have a tentative townread.

I'll track him down and see what he thinks now.

Not sure how accurate his townread would be after what happened in AA, with him and Kalimar sliding by y'all (And all of us)

AA is why that read is pretty damn tentative.

[MC Maraca]

The last two parts of your town-case of F-16 aren't resonating as well as they should be

the second to the last though, is more comparing his scum-game to my own and that usually doesn't end well


but the last comment, why is it unlikely for him to do that kinda thing as scum?

[Casso the King of Seals]

How do we have 145+ pages of Day 1 and then we push the most useless wagon.

Like if mafiassk flips scum the ONLY thing we gain is one scum down (which I mean is kinda good but it's literally a random chance right now). We gain no other helpful info, and we start day 2 with no lynch info whatsoever.

Except for everyones day 1 play, which is a kind of big deal. We have plenty of strong wagons to analyze, we have good reactions to who jumps on this kynch and who defends it... You act like the entire game thread disappears once we lynch someone with less than 50 posts, but that's not the case.

How will you be doing things differently if mafiassk flips town? What if he flips scum? How will you take into account his flip and/or his wagon and how will you use this new found piece of information?

I won't do things differently if SSK flips town, scum. Maybe I notice interesting interactions when I read through his posts, maybe I won't. Who are Sakura scumbuddies based on her posts so far?

I don't actually do analysis before a flip, but I would imagine if she were to flip scum I would learn a lot more from her 174 posts than from mafiassk's 34 posts if he were to flip scum

And I would imagine if she didn't flip scum, you wouldn't get any information at all about buddies, etc.

[Casso the King of Seals]

The last two parts of your town-case of F-16 aren't resonating as well as they should be

the second to the last though, is more comparing his scum-game to my own and that usually doesn't end well


but the last comment, why is it unlikely for him to do that kinda thing as scum?

It's unlikely for him to go after you two as scum because he's not very likely to gain traction on it, and if people get strong townreads on you (which they often do), then it makes him look bad.

[KoreanBBQ]

Nacho what did you mean my "town in waiting"

[Casso the King of Seals]

Thanks. I'll look through them when I get a chance. I don't have an actual townread on Casso. I hoped that doing something like this would help me quell my paranoia of Nacho and allow us to work together but I am not blown away yet and feel now that it was probably a suboptimal move. I am not sure who I want to see lynched. I have townreads on Tammy and Geists, and I think you and StuffedCrust are very likely town although I'll use the meta to make absolutely sure. I am currently reading the argument between you and Varsoon in Touhou and I see a few parallels. I am not sure which of the remaining 15 players I want lynched. My townbloc formed much slower than I had hoped.

I thought that treating me at an arms length and continuously expressing suspicion of me even though he has every excuse to just ignore me was pretty town.

[Casso the King of Seals]

Nacho what did you mean my "town in waiting"

When?

[Casso the King of Seals]

It sounds like a Town read as opposed to a Town+ read, though.

[KoreanBBQ]

Thor mentioned in his readlist that you said that regarding me.

Also I kinda want bert to list his full readlist.

[geists]

Sakura Hana
Norlkaz
Ser Arthur Dayne
BROseidon
MafiaSSK/Bert

these are my null's in the order of towniest --> scummiest

Why do you have bert so far down the list?

[Casso the King of Seals]

I have no scumreads. From the entire day, I developed 5 solid townreads (Tammy, Bert, Geists, Pieguyn, and Desperado). That is less progress than I hoped for but I am fairly sure that there is no scum there. I'd prefer to lynch outside that pool, preferably someone useless that just pops in from time to time to complain about how behind they are (this should put them out of their misery), and preferably someone my townreads want to lynch. I'd like to hear Tammy's updated thoughts after she gets back.

As it is, I am looking at the following possible scumreads from the above players (I crossed out the ones I won't lynch):

Tammy: MC Maraca,

Giests?

Bert:

Geists, Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665), pieguyn

, Ser Arthur Dayne, DOMO
Geists:

Pieguyn

, Sakura, StuffedCrust
Pieguyn:

Casso,

(please provide your other options, Pieguyn)
Desperado: StuffedCrust, maraca,

geists,

domo, dayne

Tammy says Dayne is town, I am leaning pretty heavily town on DOMO and he isn't a viable wagon anyway. I'll likely go with StuffedCrust. The thing that bugged me about them was 2306? I don't like the timing of it. Just shortly before, in 2273, they had me as town but quickly change to apparently agreeing with the suspicion on me. Then, they vote MC Maraca who I was pushing. I don't like it because they seem to pick a side between me and MC based on who was going down. They townread me when everyone else does and scumread me when everyone else does.

The whole "I find these people but I have no scumreads" is a ballsy stance to take as scum in most gamestates, but this gamestate was pretty much the only place where it was acceptable. I like the reads he's formed as his strong townreads even though they are gotcha townreads (Minus Desperado, but I haven't read into that read deeply enough to make a judgement which I realize I should probably do now).

[Casso the King of Seals]

Thor mentioned in his readlist that you said that regarding me.

Also I kinda want bert to list his full readlist.

I know myself pretty well, then!

[KoreanBBQ]

[Casso the King of Seals]

But lets say you did.

If you were town, you obviously thought that my push, on tammy was town-motivated and didn't think of it being scum motivated until tammy freaked out about it. at the point that she did, and started calling me scum, you had decided to change your read on me. no degression on your town-read of us, no sign of you losing faith in your read of us, nothing

Incorrect. I had an obvtown read on you in 280. This changed to leaning town in 551. It was null by 1308 as I don't even mention you in my townreads. This is continued in 1458 and 1460. In 1758, I accuse you of helping the scum. In 2011, I disagree strongly with Geists about their townread on you. In 2091, I vote you following Tammy's vote. My progression in reads is very obvious and gradual. You could just as well draw a linear graph to describe my read on you. In 2196, I engage and question you to which you respond and I think about it. In 2228, I unvote giving you the benefit of the doubt for poor play. Here is the graph: (The y-axis shows the strength of the townread from 0-100).

I also have a very good reason to think that scum would try a discrediting tactic with Tammy since I've seen it happen before while I've never seen Tammy get mislynched. This is based off of my past experience with Tammy and an understanding of her playstyle.

and, I had asked cabd if you had a reason to think he was able to read you correctly. There isn't, so you not being impressed by him because he "got your alignment wrong" is absolute shit and reeks of trying to get on his good side.

Why haven't you asked me if I had a reason to think Cabd can read me? I'll answer anyways. Cabd has read plenty of my games, and has even said once that he pegged me as scum in a game after it ended. There is a large enough variation in my town and scum games that someone like Cabd should be able to read me very easily. This is very blatantly my towngame. I am not this skilled as scum. My scumgame amounts to lots of lurking. My best scumgame was where I replaced into an autowin situation and twisted my scumbuddy's meta to call him town and held myself together for 4 real life days in 5P LYLO, so it wasn't even a big deal at all. Bert and Nacho know about this. All other scumgames are much worse. You should check my wiki or ask someone like Tammy, Nacho, or Bert who actually know what my scumgame looks like.

You don't wanna pick a fight with me, it's pretty damn obvious in the way that you scum read us, but don't call my actions scummy, rather anti-town and using that as an avenue to try and push us to get lynched.

we aren't scum, we are "'

helping

scum.

the fact that you phrase it as such proves that you don't really have a scum-read on us, but you keep pushing it as such

the fact that you keep calling my actions as "helping scum" proves that you think my actions are anti-town. not scummy, anti-town and guess what?

town can, and are far more likely to be anti-town.

I accused you of helping scum because that is what you have done. There is no way for me to tell whether you are town that made a dumb move or scum helping your wincon quite blatantly. I have analyzed the effect of your gambit as opposed to seeing the underlying town motivation. I tend to do that when people annoy me. I got over it and considered the possibility of bad-town.

Especially taking into consideration of who is in this slot, and taking into the consideration of what we both have pride in RE our scum games.

there is far more evidence of you being scum, than there is of us being scum.

you never explained the scum motivation behind our gambits, at all. Why

I

would make such a push on tammy as scum, in the first place especially since I admitted to being scared of her volatile nature as scum.

Wtf do I care about how much you pride your scumgame and how is it even relevant? I did explain the scum motivation behind your push on Tammy in 1758. Tammy's post also resonated with me quite a bit:

I'm not really good at resisting trolling even if and when I know I'm being trolled especially when people are talking to me the way they were. I think they saw me enter this game confident and happy, which only means one thing for my alignment, and decided to knock me out of my comfort zone, that way noone will listen to my reads because I'm the emotional girl who got frustrated and cussed people out.

So... Have you ever seen Toomai graphs, Mara? I thought this post in particular was town as hell because it traced his entire thought process in a gorgeous way, seemed like a tool to set the record straight. His trajectory when he outlines his push on you is pretty flawless and incredibly impressive if he's scum.

[MC Maraca]

he's pretty much been underwhelming, IMO which is pretty bothersome

it could be because his posts aren't standing out compared to pretty much everyone else's but

Sakura is making my head spin
Norlkaz/Llamarble has done some things that (I think) crossed my mind
Arthur should be higher up in my list, but isn't because I feel a little paranoid about him (though I don't know why)
and Bro had some thing early game that I faintly recall. mostly his, early D1 interaction with nacho and this being nothing like his play in GM's normal
meanwhile, with Bert I'm drawing nothing but blanks

Pedit: ok

[Casso the King of Seals]

I have a theory for Geists being scum but that would involve both Giests and Casso being scum and ffery opening up with a bus on Nacho which she later retracts. But it would be risky as hell if the lynch actually went through, and the read had so much depth to it.

Rabbit hole, but still town.

[Casso the King of Seals]

I am not sold you are town. Still null at this point. You could be an actual Mason. You could be a VT fake-claiming Mason. Or you could be scum fake-claiming Mason. Regardless, Mara made a dumb move earlier in the game. If you were competent town, I'd expect you to own up to it and back off. You didn't. You continued acting as if you were in the right and OMGUSing me. That makes you (Mara) either scum or incompetent town. I am not sure which. That's why you are in my annoyance pile. Only incompetent townies tunnel mindlessly. I backed off of voting you several pages ago so if you are actually town and this ends up being TvT, it is not my fault and you better not blame me at endgame, just saying that now.

It's also incredibly town to continue pushing on you as claimed Masons at this point, IMO. I cant see scumFalcon refusing to let it go once he sees you claimed Mason and then bring the

you can't blame me at endgame if this is TvT

which is incredibly impressive and ballsy if coming from Falcon-scum.

[MC Maraca]

ok