NY 168: (GAME OVER) The Mod is Dead, Fire and Ice Edition

[Dry-fit]

/Confirm.

[Dry-fit]

VOTE: YuniChikako

I'm excited to see in the next vote count if the mods are serious about only counting votes with vote tags.

[Dry-fit]

Yuni's response to her wagon looked townish.

Unvote.

About mastin's townslip: I see it, but it's not the kind of thing I put a ton of stock in. Calling a townslip on yourself is always questionable as well.

Maxous seems town to me based on the last game I played with him but not a super strong read.

No one looks particularly scummy at the moment but I can see Toomai as scum.

Vote: Toomai.

[Dry-fit]

Dry-fit is a somewhat-strong scumread, but not nearly as strong as I'd prefer him to be.

Yeah I'm feeling off my game in this on so far. Are you going to explain your read on me like you said you would? And why do you want me to be a strong scumread? Have something against me?

I'm not really liking Yiley right now. Didn't follow up on his Yuni vote and hasn't brought any other scumreads to the table.

Matias' attack on the Yuni wagon doesn't feel quite right either.

[Dry-fit]

I would like mastin to explain his read on me at some point.

Don't like apologizing for looking scummy, don't like buddying Mastin, and I really don't like the hypocritical, voteless mudsling on Yiley.

It doesn't even end with looking scummy. I haven't gotten any scumreads better than marginal and only a couple townreads I would consider solid.
I don't see how my post is buddying mastin.
I should point out that I've made the case that being hypocritical can be legitimate multiple times as town: Game of Things, Fire and Ice.

Edit: Dryfit, why? Total lack of an explanation for that

Well it's that you thought the people on the wagon were opportunistic because of Yuni's "playstyle issues." How could you expect people to instantly realize a new player's play style in a couple of posts and take that into account when determining your early reads?

[Dry-fit]

In the same vein, how can anyone instantly believe that Yuni had scum motivation behind posting her first post?

Because it wasn't a good reason to suspect Slandaar. It's possible for a read like that to come from a townie with a playstyle issue, but it was something that is likely to come from scum. You may have seen things differently, but I've got news for you. Not everyone sees things the same way you do.

You're allegedly town and you don't feel comfortable putting forth any scumreads but are voting someone for doing the same. If anything, Yiley's apparent difficulty in acquiring scumreads be a towntell to town-you who is having difficulty acquiring townreads.

Did you read the links explaining my views about hypocrisy, or are you not interested in actually determining my alignment?

If anyone can convince me of:

-Maxous town
-Yiley scum

good luck and I will be impressed.

Maxous' play looks different from when I last played with him in Hunter X Hunter mafia where he was scum. He was playing a much more passive game there. Plus he has his vote in a good place on Toomai. I don't expect this to convince you but that's my view on him.

Actually you might be right about Yiley. 245 feels like it's coming from town.

Also if one of TSO or mastin is scum I think the other is based on post 167 I didn't think TSO's was much of a townslip.

[Dry-fit]

1) I assume 'like' means you town-read them, why? (since your vote is based off of this)
2) agree with who? Desperado? he's the only person that gave a reason...agree with which part?
3) Why is your vote non-engaging of Dry-Fit?

[*]Yeah mostly Desperado's point-out I guess.[*]I agree with other people about him being scummy for previously-stated reasons. What exactly am I supposed to engage upon?[/list]

Wow I think I may have actually stumbled into finding scum this game. Also Toomai why would having your townreads voting me make me scum?

Toomai's vote on Dry-fit was particulary bad and he continues to coast in a scummy manner. It's different from Dry-fit and Yiley's *blatant* coasting, Toomai is being more deceptive about it

Wanna know who's really coasting this game? PeregrineV. But that's kind of always the case.

Gotta love that the only case made against me was Desperado's and he hasn't responded to my criticisms of it at all.

[Dry-fit]

Your criticisms are garbage. The only counterargument you've made is that you've said before in other games that hypocrisy isn't scummy.

"Nuh-uh!!!!" isn't a criticism, it's a deflection.

It isn't just "nuh-uh" it's an entirely spelled out argument. And do you really think scum are the ones less concerned about looking hypocritical? Keep using your shitty ass scumtell though.

Toomai and Desperado both look like scum. They think they've found a book scumtell they can latch on to so they stop all other brain function pushing it and pushing it. Toomai's last post was comical.

[Dry-fit]

This Dry-fit wagon feels like it's on scum, and I'll tell you why--because, contrary to the Yunichika wagon which appeared basically overnight, this one hasn't. It hasn't exploded into an L-2 wagon. Its built gradually and steadily.

I think it would be the opposite really. In multiscum each scum has fewer buddies to provide resistance. And the scum on the opposite team will be eager to lynch anyone not part of their team, including the opposing scum.

Furthermore, while the points against Yunichika were fairly weak and rushed (making the wagon on her unwarranted), the points against Dry-fit feel like they're more solid and grounded in reality.

Lol, is this a real mafiascum game?

[Dry-fit]

Go ahead and lynch me. This is probably the worst game I've played on site.

Whoever is on the scumteam Toomai isn't on should shoot him tonight. Lynch Desperado tomorrow.

"As town I have argued that being hypocritical isn't scummy, therefore my hypocritical push on Yiley isn't scummy."

You still haven't read any of those links I posted, have you scumfuck?

I suck at self motivating right now so I'm just gonna blatantly sheep Mastin until further notice.

Unvote, Vote: Dry-fit

Here's a notice for you: Sheeping mastin is a very bad idea this game. He's offered very few reads, hasn't responded to any of the things I've addressed to him even though I'm apparently his top priority, and after his catchup offers nothing but shitty wagon analysis. You're going to have to do some work on your own in this one.

[Dry-fit]

I think toomai and dry-fit might be partners. How many scum should be on each team in a 19 person game? Three most likely, so bussing is going to be a much harder pill to swallow than normal. Toomai was parked on the dry-fit wagon since the page 11 votecount (and it stayed stalled til now) but as soon as it actually catches fire he immediately bails on it to.. vote someone for voting dry-fit?

Oh so you have actual reasons for thinking I'm scum now? I'd like to know what they are. OGML is probably town though.

I'll take a look at the JKLM case tomorrow. He's a player that's been under my radar.

[Dry-fit]

1. Lack of response to interogative

I didn't consider the questions particularly worth answering. Yes I would consider your play in the beginning of this game coasting. I gave my thoughts on players on my wagon, particularly Desperado, Toomai, and mastin.

2. Appeal to Emotion, lack of addressing votes or voters on his wagon ----> (365

Again, the only person who's given any king of reason for voting me is Desperado. I've tried to address that with him several times. If you guys want hypocrisy to be some kind of ultimate tell of ultimate scumminess that makes someone confirmed scum, it's your funeral. And mine I suppose. No one else has given any real reasoning. Look at mastin ffs, he just keeps going on about how good the wagon looks.

3. Attack on OhGodMyLife who appears to be calling both Toomai and Dry-fit scummy & attampted redirection towards JKLM (391)

Uh, I said in my last post I think OGML is town. Did you think OGML's vote was good? And I'm not attempting to redirect to JKLM. I said I needed to look into him, because he's a player with an emerging wagon who's been under my radar. I want to see what hat wagon's about.

I looked at JKLM's iso, and I knew I didn't remember much of anything he's said this game, but I didn't realize just how little he's offered. That said he seems just null, I don't think the case against him is too strong. Garmr you may be right about his meta, but I haven't played with JKLM before and I don't trust meta reads from anyone but myself. Too many people just seem to do it wrong. Also Toomai is on that wagon, so there's that. Still think Toomai is significantly more likely to be scum.

[Dry-fit]

There's one hyphenated that nullifies that reasoning until at least after some flips.

Multi-Scum

In a multi-scum game, if you clear a player of being on one scumteam that makes them more likely to be town because it eliminates half the possible scum slots that player could hold. So for example if there are 6 scum in this game and we clear JKLM of being on Toomai's scumteam that gives him a 3/19 chance of being scum rather than 5/19(with Toomai taking up one the sixth scumslot). So all else being equal it makes him look more town.

So, you are claiming less interest in the Dry-fit wagon, and more interest in the JKLM wagon?
A wagon on town (you) and wagon on null (JKLM)?

I'm claiming more interest in a Toomai wagon than a JKLM wagon. Lynching JKLM would be better than lynching me, but he's just null.

@Dry-fit- Please give your opinion on each person who is voting you. How strong is there case or reason for voting you, both in presentation and strength of argument?

In addition, outside of those players voting you, who are you two strongest townreads and why, and who are your tow strongest scumreads and why?

Is this really the way people play? They analyze every person on their wagon unless they're scum? I'm not a player who values wagon analysis as a scumhunting method. I don't look at the game by dissecting each member of a particular wagon. I'll give you my thoughts nonetheless.

Desperado: Has given an actual reason, hypocrisy. As I said I think hypocrisy is a legitimate tactic in some cases. I've done it knowingly as town in other games and have advocated for it as town in other games. I think I need my custom title to be "Hypocrite" so this issue doesn't keep coming up in games. Desperado has refused to look at my explanation for my views on hypocrisy and hasn't responded to any other aspects of my play and hasn't said anything about any other players. Go ahead and look at his iso and try to find something about a player other than me. Good luck. He's my second scumread.

Matias: Says Desperado's reason is good and offers nothing else. Overall he leans on the scummish side of null.

Yiley: I kind find a reason from him for his vote on me. I'm leaning town on him because of a couple of offhand comments he's made, one of them being 45.

mastin2: No reason given for his vote on me. Since his vote he just repeatedly says the wagon on me looks good. Hasn't responded to any of the questions I've asked him. He's my third scumread, possibly on his way to 2nd.

T S O: No reason given. Just repeatedly says the wagon is good. I don't have much of a read on him, though this isn't how he's been when I played with him before. Not sure it's scummy though.

OhGodMyLife: Votes me initially for sheeping. Later seems to really have a scumread on me, but won't give his reasons. Leaning town on him because I don't think scum would start saying they actually think I'm scummy without giving reasons.

PeregrineV: No reason given initially, then later offers three reasons. The first is that I haven't addressed his questions, one of which looked rhetorical and the other of which I answered indirectly by giving reads on several players based on their actions on my wagon. Namely Desperado, Toomai, mastin, and OGML. Second reason has two parts: First appeal to emotion: not much I can respond to with that. It's up to you to make the read on that and determine whether you think it's scummy or townie. Second part is not addressing voters on my wagon. Fair enough if you're talking about Desperado, though I don't really know what I can can say about that. If you don't find my explanations satisfactory that's how it is. But as you've seen no one else on my wagon has actually addressed anything to me. In fact some like mastin seem to be doing anything they can to avoid doing so. Third reason is that I called OGML scummy and was redirecting onto JKLM. I already addressed that in my last post so no need to do so again. PV overall seems null to me but I don't trust my ability to read you at all so that's no surprise.

JKLM: Ate. That's it. I've already given my view of JKLM overall and he's just null.

So I hope you can see the frustration I'm having here with 4 of eight players on my wagon(now 5 of 9 with Yuni) giving no reason for being on my wagon. And a fifth in Yiley just sheeping another person adding nothing new. I don't feel like people are giving me a fair shake this game.

It's a crazy world, so how many scum are on your null-read counterwagon? How many town?

One scum in Toomai for sure. Garmr is a pretty strong townread, Maxous a medium one. Bulba and Pacman I'm null on. Once again I don't play by looking at a wagon and saying "there are x scum on this wagon."

This is one of the reasons I don't like wagon analysis by the way. I just posted a ton of information a lot of people won't read, a lot of which isn't important, and repeating things I've said in other posts and in this post itself.

[Dry-fit]

Toomai Desperado Mastin scum. You guys owe me a Toomai lynch tomorrow if he's still alive.

[Dry-fit]

Wow this is the most consensus on a D1 lynch I've ever seen. I must have been just that super scummy. Good job guys.

[Dry-fit]

Oh and by the way no one asked me for a claim so aptil's hammer is on the scummy side for me.

[Dry-fit]

Martin made post 45 not me.

That was supposed to be 245.

TSO you can't even read me after I'm dead. And why do you sound surprised? I thought I was confscum in you eyes. Maybe Slandaar's right about you. It looks like like scum flocked to my wagon like bees to honey. I guess that's the one positive about all this.

[Dry-fit]

Lol at mastin online but avoiding this thread.

[Dry-fit]

Good game everyone. I like the setup here too.

Yay for winning the worst game I've ever played.