Mafia 63: Wolves - Game over!

[Talitha]

vote : Twito

Morning all!

[Talitha]

unvote: Twito

vote: ThAdmiral

die, die, die

[Talitha]

Let's just lynch ThAdmiral! I have a good feeling about it. Die, die, die.

[Talitha]

I am still here. Will post properly in 36-ish hours.

[Talitha]

I am not really getting a scum vibe from ThAd.

unvote: ThAdmiral

Pooky, hmm, not sure.

But for now, I'm with Coron. The jokey mafia claim is the best scum evidence I have seen so far.

vote: Fircoal

[Talitha]

You know how sometimes you just aren't in the right frame of mind to play mafia? No? Foreign concept? Sorry for my lack of contributions, anyway.

Given the deadline approaching, and the multi bandwagon possibilities, I would hop on one of them, but I still quite like my Fircoal vote, so will stick with it a while longer.

[Talitha]

We're back and some posts are lost.

MOD: Would you mind retracting the deadline under these circumstances? Or at least extending it for a decent amount of time while we try and remember what we've lost here.

Now would be a good time to make sure everyone checks in too.

[Talitha]

Who are we missing?

Vote count, s'il vous plait

[Talitha]

I am happy with my fircoal vote.

[Talitha]

I agree with ThAdmiral's sentiments, but I think his definition of lurker is different to mine. 'Lurker' implies that people are lurking but not contributing much. E.g. the people who check in with an "I'm here"... or you know they are reading the thread but not posting.

The other kind of non-contributing player I would prefer to refer to as 'flakes' or 'MIA' or something. They are the ones who have been called away by meatworld issues, forgotten about the game or are just not interested. They are less likely to be scum than the lurkers who are around but not saying much, IMO.

(I realise it's sometimes not possible to distinguish between the two types.)

In a nutshell my point is yes vote for lurkers, but players who are truly missing/uninterested should be replaced.

[Talitha]

Twito is asking for it, by posting in other games but not this one. Can Anca & Pooky jog my memory as to why they are voting for him?

[Talitha]

Date of crash : 13 April - 19 April

Date of most recent post:

~N9V~ 25 March

Ancalagon 24 April
bird1111 24 April
Battle Mage 28 April

Coron 28 March

Dragons of Summer 26 April
Fircoal 26 April
Jingolaw 28 April
Niempie 20 April
Pooky 28 April

spectrumvoid - no posts?

Talitha 28 April
TheAdmiral 26 April
The Goat 25 April

TheJiveMachine 20 March

Twito 21 April

There are 4 people who haven't posted for over a month. Could we have them replaced please

mod

?

[Talitha]

I've changed my mind slightly - if we can't get replacements I'm all for lynching some dead weight for the sake of the fun of the game. At least Twito speaks occasionally. Any other suggestions? Any of the non-posters given us any cause for suspicion? Let's lynch a slacker, get this day over with, and move on to the blessed relief of Day 2.

[Talitha]

Yay, thanks Tony!

[Talitha]

Does anyone have any clue why spectrumvoid is offering to replace into other games, but not participating in this one?

[Talitha]

Want to save us the long agonising wait and confess now, fircoal? You're gonna die anyway.

[Talitha]

Oh.. people are voting for ME? Righty-ho, at least it's movement. I haven't read today yet. Will be back to do so a bit later.

[Talitha]

And Jordan and Fielding Melish are OBVIOUSLY replacements. Anyone who actually PLAYED and suffered through Day 1 will understand EXACTLY what I was talking about.

[Talitha]

Following on from the thought in my above post...

vote: Battle Mage

[Talitha]

BM: I guess it's an OMGUS vote. You played day 1 so I expected you would have related to what I said and shared my frustration at the non-participation. Can you please explain what was scummy about what I said?

Blessed relief of Day 2? We were on Page 10, hardly a long and arduous day. And what do you mean if we can't get replacements?

The day

is

long and arduous when the majority of people aren't posting. The number of pages is not really relevant; the time taken IS relevant, especially when you consider the low low participation. And did you read the post where the mod said he was having trouble getting replacements? That is what I meant.

seems there was a substantial amount of posts lost in the crash

Nah, it wasn't that many. I saw the thread immediately before and afterwards and I guess about 8-ish posts were missing.

[Talitha]

Desperately looking for someone easy to lynch, or desperately trying to get a stagnant game moving? Playing up to the rest of the town, or trying to encourage others to speak?

And I think it is a case of the pot calling the kettle "black". You seem to be looking for an easy lynch by lazily jumping on a bandwagon and not considering the context of my singular "scummy" post.

[Talitha]

While I am enjoying this little tangent, I have yet to read over properly.

Oh btw, has everyone turned up to play today?

[Talitha]

unvote: Battlemage

vote: Jordan

After reading Day 2 so far, I feel like this is a better vote.

Note to self: Keep an eye on Pooky, Niempie, Miztef...

[Talitha]

It's more of a gut feeling right now. You seem a bit edgy.

[Talitha]

Why am I the "correct play" jordan?

[Talitha]

Skruffs, a slip? I guess you're refering to the post of mine that was pointed out as "scummy". I don't believe it's a slip at all to try and get the game moving and press for votes and action. I believe it is the opposite, and good town play. Plus I play mafia for fun and lurkers and flakes aint fun. That kind of post is not typically or necessarily scummy. Many, many scum would prefer to sit on their haunches, make no waves and wait for a deadline.

If you want an example, go read any game with Internet Stranger in it and you will see what I mean. He is one of my mafia playing influences.

[Talitha]

I think everyone should use the pull down box below and check out Fielding Melish's contribution to the game. I think Jordan is likely scum, but I can't let this go unpunished.

unvote: Jordan

vote: Fielding Melish

[Talitha]

Tally, why am I likely scum? You've said gut but I prefer reasoning I can argue against, gut just seems too convenient to me.

Jordan, I would prefer to use reasoning too, but often there isn't any reasoning that can be easily verbalised. Especially if the player concerned is a decent player. Many times I have been in a game with MeMe and I've been jumping up and down saying "She's scum! She's scum! I feel it in my bones! " And invariably she is scum. I am not 100% sure on you, I will admit. And I have not played with you before. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we probably have one group of scum in this game... the wolves, right? There may be other twists thrown in... neutrals, or townies who are liabilities, but town's main problem is the wolves. There is likely a pack of them, numbering 3 or 4 at a guess. And we havent killed any yet. There are about 3 people I get the feeling are probably town. So from where I'm sitting you have a ~50% chance of being scum, and that's before I take into consideration any vibes or gut feelings.

Sorry, rush post, but I wanted to explain where I am coming from.

Also I don't appreciate the prod request for melish - how do we find out if he's lurking if we know the mod prodded him?

[Talitha]

I will also try and read over before I leave for 3.5 weeks in USA starting this Friday... I hope to be able to check in a couple of times while I'm away.

[Talitha]

I am leaving tomorrow for 3.5 weeks in the USA. I havent had time to read over or some up with any amazing ideas. Sorry sorry sorry! But I will try and check in occasionally. I wish the slackers would get in and post, I am going to be unhappy if any pro-towns get modkilled for inactivity. Ooh, maybe Twito could replace someone???

[Talitha]

unvote fielding

Useless vote.

vote: jordan

[Talitha]

What do ya want us to do, Pooks?

[Talitha]

Pooky does not seem too convinced of his own ability to lead us to victory, so I am hesitant to take him up on this plan

I need to re-read, my USA trip and the long night mean I am a bit lost. But we need to nail scum today. All committed townies should be trying to nail scum.

Also, seeing as we haven't nailed a wolf yet and it's getting a little desperate - do we want to mass claim? (Not a tactic I usually suggest, but it worked quite well at Thespival..)

[Talitha]

Does Pooky smell wolf-ish to anyone else? I am mighty suspicious of him. (..sorry pooks..)

[Talitha]

I am really hoping that Battle Mage's sibling is a bad wolf who is going to die shortly. If the other sibling is town, we're in trouble.

Nobody has commented on my mass claim idea. Any thoughts?

Also to get some discussion going, and assuming that we might have 4 wolves in the game, I would really like everyone to name their top 4 suspects for wolves, and who they would be willing to lynch today...

[Talitha]

Life is pretty busy and I've been sick... I am sorry for my slackness though. Just posting to say I'm still here and working on finding scum. I started reading over.. got to about page 6 and then the words started all blurring together

[Talitha]

Jordan is gaining a few innocence points with me. His question about whether wolves will be revealed as such on death strikes me as a genuine question.

[Talitha]

Skruffs: Explain why you are tying people together with little ribbons?

[Talitha]

Thank you Shanba - looking forward to you getting back into the game.

[Talitha]

Funny you should say that. I've been too tired to finish my re-read yet, but from where I got to, Jingolaw was the one that was standing out as most likely scum.

[Talitha]

I'm still keen for a mass claim !

Not very keen on a DOS vote though.

[Talitha]

We're at lynch minus 2 by the way, likely in a lynch-wrong-and-lose scenario, with likely 4 wolves out there, two of whom easily might not be voting yet. I'm not very comfortable with this.

[Talitha]

I intend to get all caught up on this game today, finish my read through and figure out my top suspects. Please hassle me, if I don't!

[Talitha]

I am nearly caught up.... I read up to page 21 but I have read enough to be able to list my top suspects. They are, in order of suspicion:

Jingolaw
theo
Pooky
Ancalagon

I need to finish reading tomorrow... I vaguely remember ~N9V~ claiming so I want to read over that before I vote, etc. For the mass claim I am in favour of the people on my list claiming early as possible, obviously .. Not sure how we are going to choose who goes first.. maybe we could vote on it, with underlined votes (or something) so the mod doesnt count them towards a lynch?

[Talitha]

OK, there's a lot more information in the last 8 pages to take into account.

The cop claim... My instinct is that ~N9v~ is telling the truth. Only claiming one result initially is worrying me a little, but I guess if his mind wasnt on the game at that point he might have just had his most recent result in mind. I really hope he's not scum, because no-one seems overly suspicious of him, including myself.

Having said that, he has innocent results on two of my top suspects. I'm not sure I can put too much faith in his results as he could be naive, insane or one of them could be Godfather Wolf. Notice how the scum didnt try and target him last night. Is that because they thought he would be protected, or because they know he's not sane and aren't too worried? I am not sure.

One question: ~N9V~, what made you claim when you did? What was going through your head?

[Talitha]

Also, I am starting to get suspicious of Jordan again... I had been thinking he was likely to be a particular pro-town role (the name of which I will not mention), but then I read a recent post that made it look extremely unlikely that he is in fact the pro-town role I was thinking of.

So he is back on the list:

Jingolaw
theo
Jordan
Pooky
Ancalagon

As for the mass claim, I am still considering whether I fully support the idea. I threw it out there for some reactions because I thought it is more likely for town to support such a move, and for scum to sit back and see which way it's going to go. I don't think the wolves would really be keen on claiming today.

I do think we should get a full claim from ~N9V~ today, as it might help town to know whether we can trust him, and it might give some clue as to his sanity.

[Talitha]

vote: Jingolaw

Because I want him to claim first. Would consider switching to theo if no support on Jingo.


Skruffs, question, what is your opinion of Pooky?

[Talitha]

I don't care to elaborate much at this stage, especially because some players such as yourself have not put forward their own suspicions yet. I will say that your desire to follow rather than find scum yourself is one of the best reasons that you are a wolf in this game.

We have all seen how far we get with accusations and arguments back and forth. There's plenty in the thread to get stuck into, for those who really want to find scum. How many wolves do you think we have in this game, theo, and who are your top suspects for those slots?

[Talitha]

Care to point out where you've put forward opinions of your own? I'm not going to jump because a lazy wolf demands it. How many months have we been playing this game now? And you still don't want to speculate on who is scum? If you're town you have no reason to even be playing this game. My strong opinion is that you are only here to kill people at night and slide by during the day.

[Talitha]

Theo: I am voting for Jingolaw who I am also convinced is scum. As you have seen, he is #1 on my list. I could easily switch to you though, depending on who I can got more voting support for from the more town-ish members of this game

[Talitha]

Theo:
As for your day 2 posts, I am looking over them now and I acknowledge that you were being a bit more opinionated back then. But I still think you were sliding by with generic "let's put some pressure on" and "let's generate some discussion" and "I agree with..." and prompting for others to talk. These reasons are fine in themselves, but your posts

as a whole

lack original thought, 'meatiness', and a sense of conviction.

You were looking promising with your vote on Jordan, but then when Jordan asks "why should I be lynched?" you told him you don't find anything very scummy, you were just throwing in a vote and testing for reactions... That just felt fake to me.

I am trying hard to give you my reasons why I think you're scum.. it's often not easy for me to put my suspicions into words

And you are right, I have cleared some others in my mind, labelled them as more likely to be town. Have not kept detailed reasons why as that kills the fun of the game for me. It is just my compounding impressions of people as I read the game.

[Talitha]

But I haven't been making an argument, simply stating who I want to lynch. The whole picking holes in the other person's arguments is what I am trying to avoid as I dont think that back and forth stuff gets us far, plus I really dont have the energy. You have asked for clarification so I've tried to give it. Happy to move on and agree that everyone needs to be participating at this point. Town is very close to losing... it's now or never for us.

[Talitha]

Re: Jingolaw. I believe he's scum from a process of elimination, a lack of evidence of towniness and I agreed with the reasons Shanba gave earlier. With the number of wolves likely still alive it makes just as much sense to ask yourself why he (or any other player) ISN'T scum. And in my reckoning, he is the scummiest of anyone. I can go back and detail some of my reasons if necessary but would REALLY like to hear from some others.

[Talitha]

OK, here's an idea... instead of a full claim, we pick our 3 most suspicious to claim. That way, hopefully we can get some good info but with a bit of luck not expose our doctor (if there is one..)

If, after 3 claims, we still feel like we need more info, we could proceed to a full claim. But we might have a good candidate for a lynch by then and not need to expose any more roles today.

If we go ahead with this we should all indicate our 3 most suspicious and tally them up. Mine obviously are

Jingolaw, theopor, Jordan

.

[Talitha]

I am worried about ~N9V~'s inactivity... we need his input today, need to make sure he makes a choice this night, and I'm waiting on answers to a couple of questions I asked him a while back.

[Talitha]

Okay I'd prefer if we're claiming we all claim, not just three, and no one comments until its done. I'd rather the wolves don't dictate somehow the three who need to claim, I haven't got a problem claiming, but if I'm doing it then everyone else is or we just claim flavour and not role.

There seems to be more support for the idea of only 3 people claiming than a mass claim - would you please expand some more, or give an example of why you think all claiming and outing all of our power roles is the best option?

[Talitha]

I am still waiting to hear a reason why a mass claim is better than our 3 most suspicious claiming.

Anyone can answer this.

Shanba, why do you want to 100% expose our possible doc & possible vig?

[Talitha]

Shanba, I can understand your point about wanting all scum under pressure. I think it's a good point. But how is claiming going to give us confirmed innocents? In a well-designed game, there usually aren't any claims that will prove a player to be innocent. But hopefully someone will fluff up the claim and we'll have a good candidate for a lynch.

You are right, it's possible that we don't have a doc, but what we do know for

almost certain

is that there is another killing role out there that is not aligned with the wolves. This person is, whether vig or SK, crucial to the town right now, because they will be trying to kill the wolves.

However, thinking about numbers... if we lynch wrong today, the vig/SK maybe should not kill tonight, as taking out a townie could easily mean game over. I suggest only killing tonight if you are really confident. If we lynch right, I think you should go ahead and kill, regardless. Please go over the thread, make your best guess at scum.

Also, if this person is ever in danger of being lynched, they should claim. Even if they are a serial killer, just claim vig. We will not lynch you because we need you plus you would be my first choice to receive doc protection (if there is a doc).

[Talitha]

As I've mentioned, the thing about the mass claim is that it puts all our roles out there, and the scum have the complete picture, they know who they need to kill and exactly what they need to do to win. This is a huge advantage for them.

However, I am starting to swing back to the mass claim idea.

Phoebus: Could you send out some super-sized pokes to those people who arent talking?

[Talitha]

Welcome back P.

I wonder if we could get replacements in if we tell them they don't even have to read the thread? All they have to do is come here and roleclaim and then follow

Pooky

me to victory. Go bump the queue thread and promise them we'll be gentle! Failing that, try cash bribes!!

I'm just pretty worried about modkills because I can't see a scum in this position flaking out of the game... I think the people who have gone completely missing have more likelihood of being town.

[Talitha]

Why claim? Because we might be in a situation of lynch wrong and looooooose .

[Talitha]

Yay!

[Talitha]

So we're missing Anca, Jingo, and Miztef.... are any of them still around? Please speak up!

[Talitha]

I agree with the sentiment, although I had an idea it was frowned upon for anyone except the mod to approach potential replacements.

I don't really know what to do.

[Talitha]

Can't do much without a mod I will contact the list mod I guess.

[Talitha]

Thanks all, and thanks Flay

[Talitha]

Replacements! Awesome! Thanks cicero and bobbyplump.

Heh, myself Pooky and ~N9V~ are the only players who have not been replaced in this game. I would be mighty surprised if EVERY single wolf had been replaced in this game, so that makes me rather suspicious of the cop claim and the supposed innocent result. (I know it's not really logical... it is possible that all wolves have been replaced at some point in this game... just saying that it would be surprising...)

I wonder if one of the players who flaked is a scum sibling and knows they are going to die tonight, so cant be bothered playing anymore...? It would be nice if that were the case... I want to see some dead wolf.

When i am more awake tomorrow I will go back and find the questions that I wanted answers to from ~N9V~ as i dont think they ever got answered.

I feel like Pooky would be trying harder at this point if he were town. The Pooky I know doesnt like to lose... I kinda feel like he is complacent scum with a win in sight and a claimed innocent result on him.

[Talitha]

Why do you think I am "wrong" as opposed to scum trying to cast suspicion on you, Pooks? To me, "wrong" implies you think my motives are good, but I am just mistaken.

[Talitha]

~N9V~ : I believe I asked this question several pages back, but I can't be bothered hunting out the original post.. What made you you come out and claim when you did?

[Talitha]

Wow, thanks Quag!

[Talitha]

Anyone is free to say I'm a wolf, apart from me, who obviously knows better.

I think ~N9V~ should claim

first

, full claim including role name and flavour (remembering not to quote the mod) so that we can get a better idea of whether to believe his claim. I kinda want to trust him, but it's bugging me.

[Talitha]

Who goes next, Skruffs?

[Talitha]

Pooky? How you feel about claiming now?.. you've been fingered.

[Talitha]

My role is Wolfsbane, so Skruffs is looking suspect.

Bobby next please.

[Talitha]

When did Pooky get cleared? We have dead pro-town sane cop?

I'll explain wolfsbane when we've all claimed our roles, but it's similar in function to what Skruffs claimed

[Talitha]

I basically told you what Wolfsbane is when I said it's similar to what Skruffs claimed. So similar in fact that I am very suspicious of him now. Plus just the role name makes it pretty obvious what it is. The main thing left for me to claim is the details of of how effective it is (if i am aware of it) and I am NOT about to be giving that info out right now.

Also, I have been in a very grumpy mood this week, so I'm not very tolerant of these annoying little accusations with no substance to them.

[Talitha]

Nobody asked you to care.

[Talitha]

Sorry for my testiness earlier.

Also you should consider that if I were scum I would probably not duplicate a role that had already been claimed... because if Skruffs dies and is telling the truth, I would look pretty bad.

I'm not sure Phoebus would put a 'gong farmer' in this game either, it just seems way out there. I am always nervous about mod evilness though, so want to mull over for a while.

I'm quite supicious the way Quag has put off claiming.. I mean if he was town, he could've just said "I'm _____. Next!" Would've taken him 5 seconds. But on the other hand I wouldnt want to claim without being completely up to date with the thread either, so don't want to jump to any conclusions here, either.

[Talitha]

prod quag please mod?

he needs to claim his role so we can keep the claiming rolling.. this is ridiculous. we've lost any advantage that quick popcorn claiming mught have gained us.

[Talitha]

Somebody could make a list of claims to date in one post.. that would probably be helpful.

Also, sounds like Jordan is next as requested by Quagmire.

[Talitha]

Alright - who would you like to claim now? Who is left?

[Talitha]

I'm fine with being tested, but I only have a finite number of times I can use my wolfsbane. I don't wanna say how many times i can use it or how many times i have already used it. Just that you need to let me know if I'm going to be vig targeted, so i can know to use it.

I just started wondering whether it would work against the vig though... logically it would only work against the wolves.

I think we should lynch the person who has the most chance of being scum. In my opinion it's either Skruffs (what if he's the godfather and can't be killed at night, hence his claim?) or bobbyplump (who is he back up for??? No evidence of a doc, and even if the doc has lied about their role to protect themselves, it's a dodgy claim and him and his predecessor have been acting like scum the whole game).

(Rushed post, I'm at work right now)

[Talitha]

Cicero - scum slipping up? Please explain.

I have not kept anything hidden about my role apart from the number of times I can use my self-protection, and how many times (if any) I've used it so far. The only people who would really benefit from me putting this information in the open, are the scum.

If there

is

actually a doc out there, they should protect cicero, IMO.

[Talitha]

I don't want to end the day until Bobby answers Shanba's question.

Does anyone else think this DOS-wagon is a bit too easy?

Shanba - I couldnt find your breadcrumb, can you point it out, please?

[Talitha]

Oh, I just looked at Shanba's first post... because he said "first post". I guess i am deserving of scorn and rolling eyes.

[Talitha]

DOS isn't putting up much of a fight, huh.

[Talitha]

Speaking of Pooky... odd that he has a townie role called 'villager', when the other claimed townies are 'butcher' and 'baker'.

[Talitha]

Quag: Why would a tailor be a target switcher? What's the flavour behind that? I don't get it.

[Talitha]

DOS: Oh yeah.. I forgot you claimed Jester. Whether it's tru or not, you can't really put up a fight. So, what was your plan for this game? How have you attempted to get yourself lynched?

[Talitha]

cicero, what's with the "Honestly"? It really rubs me the wrong way. You've been playing on scum for a couple of months and you're an expert on what are helpful suggestions and what aren't?
- Mass claim was THE best play for town at this point. We now have a LOT more to go on.
- Lurkers kill the game, so we have to kill them or at least pretend to want to kill them
- I won't discuss

anymore

who the doc (IF THERE IS ONE) should protect, but it's pretty bleeding obvious to me (and I have PLAYED a lot of mafia games, i do have some experience to draw on).

Fine if you think I look scummy, but I would probably have made similar suggestions whether I am town or scum. Just FYI.

As for being vague with my role, my only reason to be vague is if I am town. As scum I probably would've been more organised with a fake claim. As town, I decided the scum don't need to know whether or not they can kill me at night.

Thanks for being into this game though cicero, I do appreciate that, even if i don't always appreciate what you post

BTW: What makes you think the sorceror was wolf godfather? Is there a precedent for this, or is it just a guess because sorceror doesnt sound pro-town? If you're right this would be a very big deal. so I'd like discussion on it.

[Talitha]

FFS. Have you even been reading what I say pooky. I fu7cking give up.

[Talitha]

Hi all, cicero, you're right I'm far too defensive in this game. Thanks for being so cool about it.

I really think Pooky is a wolf. I know the mod of this game pretty well, he stayed with me in NZ for 2 weeks and I helped him design The little bookshop. He just wouldn't have put in a role called 'villager' - not when the other townies are butcher and baker (giving them both the benefit of the doubt here). Anyway, I've never known him to make a plain role townie role with no other flavour name.

I'm not sure what this says about our claimed cop.

I think Pooky is intending that the vig will kill me tomorrow night, because he doesn't know how much wolfsbane i have left.

Sorry another rush post (trying to beat the mod in here).

[Talitha]

The original mod I mean - Phoebus.

[Talitha]

OK I just checked cicero's link to Phoebus' mafia vs werewolves game from 2004 and there were plain townies. Huh. Doesn't change my suspicions of Pooky, though.

[Talitha]

Probably because I was PMSing. I didn't read it that way. Sorry, Pooks.

[Talitha]

I think the plan is pretty good too, btw.

[Talitha]

I think Pooky's an angel, both in RL and in this game. And I think he's played very well this game.

Besides, bobby

has

to be scum, otherwise it means i've been wrong about absolutely everything in this game, and that's just inconceivable

vote: bobbyplump

[Talitha]

It was the claims and the counterclaims and the breadcrumbs and the cop's investigations. Once we had all info on the table, everything fell into place. For the record I thought Pooky was probably the doc when I was accusing him yesterday.

[Talitha]

Actually "probably" is too strong. I was 50% thinking he was doc, 50% thinking he was scum

[Talitha]

Also for the record, I only used one of my two vials of wolfsbane. I think it was night 2 that i used it.

[Talitha]

Must say a huge thanks to Flay for rescuing the game, and to the many fantastic replacements. You're all awesome.