Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)

[N]

Vote Count 4.02

zakk

(0)

Garmr

(0)

toolenduso

(0)

Slandaar

(0)

Elyse

(0)

Skelda

(0)

No Lynch

(2) Slandaar, Elyse

Not Voting:

zakk, Garmr, toolenduso, Skelda

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-11-18 20:29:05)

[Garmr]

VOTE: no lynch

No lynch sounds the best no draw backs.

[zakk]

My motivation level for this game is super low. This game is probably gonna be lost cause. Don't mind hammering No Lynch.

Vote: No Lynch

[N]

Vote Count 4.03

zakk

(0)

Garmr

(0)

toolenduso

(0)

Slandaar

(0)

Elyse

(0)

Skelda

(0)

No Lynch

(4) Slandaar, Elyse, Garmr, zakk

Not Voting:

toolenduso, Skelda

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-11-18 20:29:05)

[N]

A no lynch has occurred!

Night 4 starts now and ends in (expired on 2013-11-09 03:54:31).

[N]

The following deaths happened during night 4:


Slandaar,

Vanilla Townie

[N]

Vote Count 5.00

zakk

(0)

Garmr

(0)

toolenduso

(0)

Elyse

(0)

Skelda

(0)

Not Voting:

zakk, Garmr, toolenduso, Elyse, Skelda

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-11-23 04:14:03)

[Skelda]

Seems like a weird choice of who to kill.

[Garmr]

I was kinda expecting tool to be killed. We should probably be careful with our votes it's mylo.

[toolenduso]

SERIOUSLY?


...you suck so hard, scum. I spent four days on my book and now it doesn't even make sense to post it.

[Elyse]

Um ok?

I thought Slandaar was probtown but he was very lynchable, especially with tool breathing down his neck. No idea why scum killed him.

Ok so if one person in {Garmr, Skelda, zakk} has a PR then we win because we have the scumteam in the VTs.

Everyone claim in your next post.

[zakk]

SERIOUSLY?


...you suck so hard, scum. I spent four days on my book and now it doesn't even make sense to post it.

Post it anyway. It'll help, even if it's wrong.

[zakk]

Um ok?

I thought Slandaar was probtown but he was very lynchable, especially with tool breathing down his neck. No idea why scum killed him.

Ok so if one person in {Garmr, Skelda, zakk} has a PR then we win because we have the scumteam in the VTs.

Everyone claim in your next post.

Sadly I'm not a PR.

The Slandaar kill was rather confusing, but I guess he had just about outlived his usefulness to scum.
What's worth looking at will be his suspicions following ICEninja. Not saying they're right, but it'll be useful.

[toolenduso]

Slandaar: The Bad, the Whole Bad and Nothing but the Bad

by toolenduso[/align]

Introduction

Before you begin to read this novel of mine, which covers more than 70 excerpts and close to 6,000 words of argument and analysis involving Slandaar’s contributions to this game, I issue a warning: This book will not help you win this game.
That’s not my intention. I didn’t compile this list to argue that Slandaar is scum, and in fact most of my analysis assumes he is town.

I did it for three reasons:

1. Because Slandaar suggested that he had only posted good points in this game, and when pressed, actually asked me to write this novel.
2. Because I have a tendency toward pettiness sometimes and Slandaar activated it.
3. Because the compilation of this tome has allowed me to learn a things about Slandaar’s playing style and has in fact uncovered things I hadn’t noticed before reading it.

I’ve organized my work into three chapters. The first covers things Slandaar’s said that are actually false. This is the shortest chapter in the book because most of Slandaar’s bad points fall somewhere into the grey area between fact and fiction, and in fact some of them (like accusations that zakk is scum) cannot, at the time of this writing, be objectively proven.

The second chapter covers things Slandaar has said that didn’t make sense. This chapter is quite a bit longer, and contains most of those “grey-area” statements that may or may not be true depending on certain factors.

The third chapter covers the rest of Slandaar’s bad posts, and is primarily a compilation of examples of things I think he should improve on as a player.

Enjoy, my friends.

[toolenduso]

Chapter One: Things Slandaar Said that are False

These are Slandaar’s worst offenses. Each of these comes about as close to being a false statement as you can get in a game based on subjectivity. Some things, however, are actually, objectively untrue.

These posts show our subject’s missteps. I will not say that they mean he is scum – rather, they tell us that Slandaar is one player who cares more about his arguments than finding out what is and isn’t true.

It doesn't make sense to apologise giving your lifestory to explain why you didn't post earlier when you post on the first page and on the first rl day of the game.

I didn't give my life story. All I said was:

Hey guys, sorry for joining late -- had work all day.

This is extreme dodging, Thor has not once referenced or tried to defend the 'misrep' accusation after I disprove it. He is scum.

No, Thor was definitely posting about the misrep argument. But let's say he hadn't actually been talking about it because you had "disproven" it -- how does dropping a point when you've been proven wrong make you scum?

The misrep is you saying that tool overexplained himself during his opening post and that he didn't want to be perceived as doing something scummy.

That is an opinion not a misrep.

You misrepresented me when you gave your opinion on what I was doing. The two terms are not mutually exclusive.

And literally noone knows the misrep so that kind of proves the point Elyse is being ridiculous SB has no clue, Ice vanished immediately.

You disagreed with Elyse when she told you what the misrep was, you ignored Thor telling you again and again what it was, you ignored me explaining myself and somehow nobody knows what the misrep is?

I've never encountered a hider before. It gets fake claimed a lot, so I typically lynch anyone who claims to be one.

Which implies you know what a hider does.

No it doesn't. It implies that he has encountered somebody claiming to be one in the past. ICE actually looking it up to see what it does when it got fake claimed is another thing entirely. ICE remembering what it did a few years later is yet another.

But if he flips scum

IF?
If Thor flips scum?
There is no if. If he doesn't you are scum so from your POV he IS scum.

Wait a second. Earlier, it seemed like half your case on ICE was predicated on Thor being scum. Now ICE is scum even if Thor flips town? So you argued that ICE was scum regardless of Thor's flip. And then ICE turned out to be town.

When someone makes argument after argument on town and noone could point to one of those arguments and say its bad that person is town.

Therefore I am town

OK, let's pretend for a second that you haven't made TONS of bad points and that nobody ever called you out on them (both of which are true btw.) You're actually suggesting that if somebody only makes "good" points they're town? That's so wrong I'm surprised even you said it. Good scum make good points that make them look like town. Furthermore, nobody only makes good points. Not me, not you, not anybody in the history of everything.

[toolenduso]

Chapter two: Things Slandaar Said that Didn’t Make Sense

This chapter is primarily for those posts from Slandaar which argued a point in such a way that it lacked logic, as opposed to those that were actually wrong. However, it also includes several posts where Slandaar may or may not have been making a good point, but worded his arguments so poorly that any value they might have once contained was lost.

What do you think of his interactions with Bastion on Page 2? Are you telling me that he is a nervous and Mr. Magoo-type scum player in that conversation and faking it all since he's so nervous as to do your other tell?
Also, a read on Bastion would be nice.

Overexplaining.

I did nothing but explain why I said what I said. You attacked me for trying to communicate my thoughts clearly.

Justify this a bit, pl0x? I am not a fan.

Sure.

Do a line by line breakdown of what is wrong with my post in regards to overexplaining.

You’re asking somebody else to overexplain their disapproval of your explanation of overexplanation.

Now let us figure this out; You know we don't agree on anything so instead of letting me do what I do and catch the scum you are trying to come after me for posting something you think is wrong well that is what you should expect to happen when I am town.

You suggested that it was unjustified for Thor to disagree with you and even said that him arguing against you was standing in the way of catching scum -- in a game where the primary method of figuring things out is through argument. You came into this game with the idea that Thor shouldn’t argue with you, he didn’t. That’s hardly a scumtell.

I could bring up everything you have posted I don't agree with but I don't; why? because its pointless to argue it as I know I won't agree with you it's just how it is.

Argument is all we have on day one. We have no voting record with confirmed town or confirmed scum. Then, despite this thought, after this post, you go on to bring up everything Thor has posted that you don't agree with.

Overexplaining is a scumtell.

And yet I am the only person you have argued is scum based on this, despite most other people in the game posting their thoughts in just as much detail as I have, if not more.

Actually I was pointing out how you were being hypocritical and asking you to justify how the over explanation you did is fine and his is scummy.

I knew what you were suggesting. Mine isn't is the answer.

And why was your post not an example of overexplanation while mine was? Because you say so, that's why! You fail to recognize the bias that will inherently creep into your posts; you fail to account for that bias and instead assert that your judgment is undeniably correct -- this is one of your weaker examples of this sentiment, but there are many more to come.

Simple version;
Before a game even begins you know we will not agree on logic especially if we are both town and you know that actually all that will happen is wall wars where we just don't come to agreement and want to lynch the other.

During game Thor tries to argue my logic is scummy.

Doesn't make sense, I expect if you were town you would have tried alternative methods like seeing if I lurk hard or not, but instead you went the superficial way of arguing logic which is ultimately pointless and not actually going to get you a read that is useful because it always ends the same way.

Again, it was day one when you posted this -- there was hardly anything concrete to go on. As an example of a more tangible scumtell, you offer "lurking," then proceed to tunnel on everybody in the game who isn't lurking.

Your argument against Thor here is also bad because you are assuming that townThor would have the same mindset as you coming into this game. Where is your evidence of this? You don’t offer any, suggesting that the reason you think this is because you think your logic is the only logic that makes sense.

How can someone expect to read me with a method which is proven not to work?

Thor is fake scumhunting.

VOTE: Thor

Good luck explaining this away Thorsy.

Nothing was proven. Again, you gave your judgment and assumed it was irrefutable evidence of the truth. Then you cap it off with a cute quip to make it sound like you just photographed him stabbing a townie.

Hint of what? defensive isn't a scumtell at all.

How is defensive behavior less of a scumtell than a player explaining why they said what they said?

Thor is scum therefore it is no 'dumb fight'
???

Your defense is that you were right, which was unproven at the time. That's like guessing how many pennies are in a jar, and when you're asked why you guessed the number you did, you say "Because that's how many there are."

Uh not exactly; Thor knows he won't agree with my logic. So, Thortown would see no point arguing with me as it doesn't matter my alignment disagreeing on logic is purely null and as such will go nowhere. Thortown especially wouldn't suggest my logic is scummy because he knows in fact I always post arguments like the one in question therefore his doing so makes him scum.

"Thor isn't doing what I have declared is the only sensible thing for him to do, therefore he is scum." You're basically saying that if somebody doesn't do what you would do as town, they are scum.

Why are you even still voting me Thor when your whole super duper misrep has been proven false?

Just because you think you've disproven something doesn't make you correct. You are not an infallible voice of reason.

It doesn't exist I have actually proven it and you have not 'corrected' me. Multiple people thinking it doesn't mean it does exist. Multiple people think aliens have visited Earth, doesn't make it true.

Again, you assume that your logic is absolutely correct. It's not an opinion to you, it's "proof."

It doesn't exist I have actually proven it and you have not 'corrected' me. Multiple people thinking it doesn't mean it does exist. Multiple people think aliens have visited Earth, doesn't make it true.

Again, you assume that your logic is absolutely correct. It's not an opinion to you, it's "proof."

I had Ice as scum prior and I will show why soon but here is the evidence;

LOL Albert you crack me up.

Not Town; no stance on the issue and it clearly comes from scum seeing town who made up a case. Think about it another way; Anyone who is town react remotely similar? nope and noone will all you have to do is think about how you reacted when you read it.

If you're going to argue that not taking a stance on a certain issue makes a person scum, everyone here is scum. Nobody responds to every single post, and as we now know, ICE was town and therefore his response was not scummy because he was not scum.

The dumb fight comment is terrible. Town will never view things in such a light because town believe the person is scum so his post is completely backwards. When I saw that post I considered he is scum and Thor town and the dumb fight was his perspective knowing it is TvT.

You thought it was more likely that ICE was scum and thought the fight was dumb because it was town versus town than that ICE was town and thought you were engaging yourself in a dumb fight. Why? Because if somebody is town, they know you're right? That's absolutely ridiculous -- nobody is confirmed town or confirmed scum until they're dead or a cleared PR tells us.

If you play with someone in a few games they will figure out how to read you or should at least figure out things that don't work (relates to both alignments) and so knowing what does and does not work to read someone you adapt to read them using what does and avoid what doesn't.
Thors play has not evolved at the level I would expect it to if he were town here.

If what you're saying is correct (that it would be in somebody's interests as town to evolve their playstyle based on their experiences with you), then the same would hold true for Thor being scum -- scumThor would have a reason to "evolve" his reads on you because he would want to be able to anticipate what you're going to say and construct a towny push against you. As it is, though, your point is probably wrong for most people -- you expect players to act a certain way, that doesn't mean they'll agree with you and just start doing what you say.

This is quite clear, Thor and Ice are buddies.

Selective reading. You assumed Thor and ICE were buddies based off a limited interaction, while ignoring Thor's defense of multiple other players. Again, you didn't say that they could be buddies, or that their actions looked like buddying, but that they absolutely, unequivocally were buddies. And then you were wrong.

but I feel like everyone is too excited to lynch something that seems like a sure thing, and I want to holster our guns and realize that the people who were killed died for a reason. Who did Maxous suspect? Who else did F-16 suspect? Who else did Albert suspect?

Thor, Thor, Thor.

You're being selective again. Maxous ended day one voting for Garmr and I don't see where F-16 ever brought a case up against Thor -- he certainly never voted for him anyway. He voted for ICEninja and ABR. If you’re talking about F-16 hiding behind Thor, then sure, he suspected him. But that wasn’t his primary reason for hiding behind him. The primary reason F-16 hid behind Thor, I believe, was because there was suspicion on him and he was one of the most active players. F-16’s biggest suspicions during the day looked like Albert, followed by ICE.

I'm not sure. He's definitely on the list, but I don't see any damning evidence. Do you?

I do.
The part where he was like 'haha you are hilarious ABR making up a case on Thor!!!' Clearly not town.

Again, a lack of a reaction to something is not a scumtell unless you can show some other connection. Again, you picked that one because you were already convinced ICE was scum. You ignored other examples of people avoiding commenting on other situations.

I DUNNO WHATS GOING ON I HAVE NO OPINION ON IF THERE WAS A MISREP OR NOT BECAUSE I AM A SCUMBAG WHO HAS NOT LOOKED AT WHAT THOR IS SAYING

ICE was one of many players saying this exact same thing at the time. You ignored those and chased after ICE because you were already convinced he was scum, and no amount of reasoning could sway you.

Like, I seriously cannot believe that pretty much 2 pages were dedicated to talking about this.
Thor's suggestion of Slandaar being lynched after Albert flips scum makes a lot of sense to me, as I have already stated that Albert being scum makes Slandaar look like scum too.

YEAH SLAND SCUM IF ABR SCUM!!! HAR HAR HAR THAT WILL STOP SLAND TRYING TO LYNCH MY BUDDY THOR!!!

If ICE were scum, that statement would make no sense as a tactic to get you to stop trying to lynch Thor. If he were scum, he would say that to try to direct a mislynch onto you -- distracting you from Thor doesn't play into that post at all. As it stood, ICE was town and that post was just town postulating on connections he saw. But you were convinced ICE was scum, so you refused to consider that possibility.

Thor just stop engaging him. We all realize how insane he sounds.

HEY THOR IGNORE SLAND PLEASE BUDDY YOU ARE GOING TO GET LYNCHED OTHERWISE

Again, ICE was one of many players saying the exact same thing at that time in the game. You selected his post because you were already convinced he was scum and unwilling to consider any alternatives.

There is more

It's in Slandaar's best interest to lynch this quickly.

That should tell you something about his alignment.

Crash and Burn.

Sland Town calling for lynch on page 4
Nice try with the protown sounding argument though.

I really must check if you accused Thor of being scum for wanting to lynch quickly.

PLEASE HOLD

One moment...

For the record I find Thor's call for a speed lynch to be perfectly reasonable.

CRASH AND BURN.

And it never entered your mind when you were posting this that there is a really big difference between calling for a speedlynch on day one when evidence is flimsy and calling for a speedlynch on day three after the town's already lost two power roles and mislynched?

Here is the easy way to prove Ice is scum;
Ice what exactly do you not understand about my case on Thor?

ICE not understanding/not agreeing with your case against Thor makes him scum, huh? Because from where I'm standing I can't think of anybody besides maybe ABR who understood and agreed with your case against Thor. Are you saying he's making up a reason to lynch you? Because if so, you're not considering the possibility that ICE is town with a legitimate suspicion of you.

So, between these 2 posts where was your scumhunting? (joke; no more quotes please)

You disagree with me, but you don't want me to argue against it?

I never said I havn't bussed D1 ever.

I never said you said you never bussed. I said you defended yourself by pointing to how you pushed a scum lynch on day one.

That is like saying that you have been scumhunting which makes you town but then it turns out you were 'scumhunting' as scum too

Do you not understand that scum will try to scumhunt to look town? For example, look at Thor's scum strategy, which I believe Bastion posted earlier in this thread: When you're scum, develop your reads like you were town. If you think a scumbuddy is acting scummy, call them out on it. If you think a towny is acting towny, point it out. So yes, obviously, you can scumhunt both as scum and town.

[toolenduso]

Chapter three: Things Slandaar Said that were Hypocritical, Worthless or Strategically Unsound

This is sort of a miscellaneous chapter; a dumping ground for all Slandaar’s posts that didn’t fit into the first two categories. But there is a sort of common thread that weaves them all together. What this chapter is really about is illustrating those areas where it would be best for Slandaar to improve as a player of the game Mafia.

The first category is “hypocrisy.” Slandaar has said many things during the course of this game that he later argued against. He has also accused many people of doing things that he himself has done.

The second category is “worthless.” These are posts Slandaar made that did not contribute to his arguments, town’s understanding of any part of the game, or otherwise served to help anybody do anything, Slandaar included.

The third category is “strategically unsound.” Our subject has a tendency to include things in his posts that get in the way of what he’s trying to say, turn off otherwise willing listeners or otherwise work against Slandaar’s or the town’s interests in winning this game.

Logical is not the entire spectrum...

And yet you continue to scumhunt based on nothing but arguments! Let’s get this out of the way now: The line between arguing based on “logic” and arguing based on “actions” is very blurry and subjective because all “actions” in this game are themselves “logic.” You make a case against somebody using logic. You vote based on logic. You defend yourself based on logic. So you used your own definitions of the two concepts to support and argument you’d already created.

Since I believe that is the way to read everyone and is the only type of scumhunting I do, whether or not I have received a bad read on you in the past I am unsure why I would reinvent my entire method just for you in the present.

Because it does not work and so if you were town and wanted to get a genuine read you would actually try different methods at least for a day or two instead of beginning the wall wars straight away which as you can see are now in full swing so good job with that.

Instead of considering that Thor might never townread you because you always give off scummy vibes and then trying to change your playstyle to not come off so scummy all the time, you assert that Thor is the one who need to change and once again suggest that your logic cannot be argued; it is untouchable.

I say mine is more accurate because Thors ends with a conclusion (and by extension mine ends with a question which Tool's post does). The question was always very important in the whole issue and Thors example dropped it.

Its like ending Tools original post with 'I think Bastion is scum' which is clearly not what happened it ended with the question of why bastion thought it was bussing.

I am not interested in asserting that my points are irrefutable and absolutely true. I want them to be discussed and vetted so that others can tell me if I'm wrong. You, however, are suspicious of my post because I don't want to do exactly what you do, which is...

Now; Thor thinks this is some huge misrep? Amusing. He is scum.

...stating that a person is scum, rather than saying "I think this is a scumtell" or "this seems scummy to me" or "doesn't this look suspicious, everyone?"

Did anyone actually read this?
The reason it is flimsy is because there are better reasons? lol

Instead of responding to my argument, or actually paying attention to any other player, you said I was wrong because lol.

Could you please explain what I missed in your pasts instead of just saying I missed something?

You are not applying context which I told you previously.

"I refuse to explain what I mean. Figure it out yourself."

I'm liking Axxle less and less

This also betrays him, he likes Axxle less and less for what? not posting? Shouldn't affect read.

And yet earlier in the game you only offered lurking as a viable scumtell.

OK Garmr I have a question for you.
Why would Thor change the wording and thus the meaning of what I have said to invent a case on me if he were town?

You assume here that the person you're talking to agrees that Thor misrepped you. This is a leading question.

So for 22 pages that has been your entire case. Hardly a big issue.

For 22 pages, you were the reason Thor kept talking about it, because you kept pushing it.

Unfortunately ABR made it easy for Thor to get out of the stranglehold I had on him because he looks like a victim and people sympathise with victims.

Stranglehold? The closest Thor got was L-3 and that was based on an admittedly made-up case from ABR. The reason your push against Thor wasn’t successful is because even though you were making some good points, you argued them in such a way that you didn't convince almost anybody else, and layered them with ridiculous points and obnoxious quips. Honestly, I might have been on board with your case against Thor on day one if you had just given reasons as to why you were right rather than given the fact that you were right as the reason. Also if you had shown any willingness to explain your arguments to people who didn't understand them.

That is called dodging questions which is the second time Thor has done it.

You accuse Thor of dodging questions, and I believe you actually use that as part of your case against him. Yet you are the king of question dodging. I could write a sequel to this book about you not answering questions, or doing so in an unsatisfactory or confusing way.

See, now there is nothing to discuss, lynch.

You posted this after Skelda had offered four posts with any actual content to them. And every one of those four had little to no effort put into them. So basically what you were saying is that there was no reason for us to gather input from a player who hadn’t contributed much of anything. I'm assuming this is because of your long-standing belief that you'd already caught all the scum in the game.

Ice isn't town. He saw a hider flip which he has been proven to know means they hid behind scum and didn't react to it.

There you go throwing around the word "proof" again. It was not proven and ICE never professed to know what the hider did at the time of this game. Also, reacting to the hider flip in the way Elyse did required two pieces of knowledge:
1. Knowing that a hider dies if they hide behind scum.
2. Remembering that F-16 had hinted that he was going to hide behind Thor.
Even if ICE remembered what a hider did, he would have had to remember F-16's hint as well. Neither happened at first. Then, once it was explained to him, he agreed -- exactly as a townie would do. None of what happened in relation to the hider flip and ICE's reaction to it looked scummy; you looked at it as a scumtell because you were already convinced ICE was scum. This is called confirmation bias, and it is only the latest in a line of examples in your posts.

I've told you time and time again to actually contribute to this game instead of repeating over and over and over (ad nasium) about the same points that

every single player in this game besides you

agree are meaningless.
I'm not the only one frustrated about it. I'm just calling it like I see it.

LOOK SLAND STOP TRYING TO LYNCH THOR AND DO SOMETHING ELSE LIKE HELP ME LYNCH TOWN ABR

That's exactly what you've done all game – tried to get help from other players so you can lynch the people you were pushing against. And look, you even did it against town!

Its a fantastic case showing why Ice is undoubtably scum.

You seem to have trouble separating what is your opinion and what is objective proof.

He even has the audacity to suggest Thor was never being lynched Day 1 when he would have been if ABR didn't back out (TOWN ABR).

O RLY? Because from my count, Thor never got past 4 votes (7 to lynch) on day one. Even Garmr got to L-2 on day one. You only thought Thor was going to get lynched because you thought your case was a flawless diamond. Nevermind all the arguments against it and the lack of people listening to you.

Zakk and Ice are scum.

No, you THINK zakk and ICE are scum. This is not an argument, it's a statement that shows your unwillingness to listen to anybody else.

Firstly: You actually responded to this post... Uh good job? There literally is no point to doing so.

Then why did you post it in the first place?

Secondly, that is only a misrep if you are town and I knew you are town otherwise its completely fine so uh, nope, not a misrep just me showing why you as scum would post what you did.

Again, you are arguing against the existence of any misrepresentation in general because you're saying misrepresentation can only be intentional. That would be an acceptable, albeit not widely used, definition of the word misrepresentation, except that earlier you accused Thor of misrepresenting what you said. So basically what you're really saying is that you are incapable of misrepresenting people, but everyone else can do it.

This isn't page 10, there has been enough discussion already we don't need 30 pages to choose a lynch everyday thank you.

You didn't need it because you made up your mind and refused to change it a quarter of the way into day one. But believe it or not, discussion is good for town. Why? So we can avoid things like lynching ICE, who was town.

WAT A HIDER JUST FLIPPED I DUNNO WHAT IT DOES AND I AM NOT GONNA CHECK OR ASK WHAT IT DOES OR ANYTHING BUT DAMN THAT SUCKS!!! ONE OF THOR AND SLAND SCUM BUT NOT BOTH!!!!!

You're seriously just rewording his statement without providing any analysis as to why it is scummy or what it could mean. Sometimes you actually come across like you're philosophically opposed to laying out your reasoning or something. It takes persistent questioning to get you to explain what you mean. For all I know, there's a good point buried in here somewhere. But because you didn't explain it, I don’t know. Therefore, this is a bad point.

I HAS NO OPINION ON THIS MADE UP CASE I NEED TO SEE WHAT OTHERS THINK FIRST!!!!!!!!! ABR SURE IS HILARIOUS THOUGH MAKING CASES UP THAT SURE IS FUNNY!!

And where, exactly, was your reaction to ABR's made-up case? Becuase I've read every single one of your posts in this game and all you said at the time was "ABR is town...you should take this as fact." If it's a scumtell for ICE, it's a scumtell for you. Luckily for you, it wasn't a scumtell for ICE, because despite your assuredly flawless analysis of ICE's actions, he was town.

Zakk is likely scum for what? who knows... and then Zakk not scum because max got nightkilled? how does this make any sense? IT DOESN'T.

Who knows? You did. ICE had just posted all the reasons he thought zakk was town, and you quoted it in full. But instead of responding to his points, you act like they don't exist. And as long as you're going to assert that not explaining your points makes you scum, you're making a case for you being scum, because as I've pointed out, you rarely explain yourself. Your evidence for your cases is usually just "I'm right."

ooooooooooooooooooooooooh how pretty!

Theres greens and reds I love it! thank you Ice I will treasure it forever!

And then you went on to post a color-coded votecount using greens, reds and blues. So why be this obnoxious over something you clearly think has value? Doing so only makes people less likely to want to listen to you or engage you in any sort of rational debate. So while this isn't a bad point (it’s not a point at all), it's still a bad tactic.

One of those assumptions that in fact is worthless.

Why is it worthless? This game is based on guessing.

Or they killed Max who was pretty unanimously townread and then Fitz who is a PR... who knows?

Exactly: who knows? It could be that they knew fitz was a PR, or it could have been for some other reason. So your guesses don't actually argue against ICE's thoughts for why there was likely only two scum on the ABR wagon, but you act like it does.

Or I am town who read Thor based on a high level meta case.

The phrase "high level" is unnecessary here. The only reason you put that phrase in there is so you could continue to verbally pleasure yourself. Again, this makes other players less likely to take what you have to say seriously and listen to your points or engage you in rational debate.

That is funny!

Can you explain the bolded please? I don't actually understand what you are saying and I am sure its a scum thing

You didn't understand it, but you found it funny? No, I don't think you did. I think you included your 5,000th obnoxious and worthless quip because you were completely convinced that ICE was scum and unwilling to consider any alternatives. Again, including that kind of worthless and obnoxious statement turns people away from what you have to say.

In fact someone not voting ICE show me any point I have made which isn't actually just plain good

This is what I’m doing now. This point is bad because you're suggesting you haven't made any bad points and that this somehow makes you town and ICE scum.

and then show me ONE point ICE has made on me that is even remotely good that doesn't involve he bussed which is just nonsense.

Here ya go:

There's NO POSSIBLE way that town Slandaar could have known from that retarded misrep debacle that Thor was scum. He was SO SURE. Because he WAS sure. Duh.

That one isn't based on you bussing, it's based on how sure you were that Thor was scum. And it is a remotely good point, yes.

I am doing it to get ICE lynched not prove I am town which should be beyond obvious anyways.

Showing bad points you made has nothing to do with getting ICE lynched. Arguing against ICE's case has to do with getting ICE lynched. But no, you had to ask for somebody to show that you were wrong and not ICE. So here I am.

This is scum just accusing the least active players of being scum.

Or it's town being suspicious of lurkers, which you have offered in this game as a viable scumhunting tactic.

Just lynch Iceman stop looking at the easier lynches.

If we had spent more time in day three discussing, rather than lynching ICE when we did, perhaps we would have caught scum. Again, discussion is good for town. Rushing lynches almost never is.

Scum is Zakk and Tool

Why? Not only did you not provide reasoning there, you continued to not provide reasoning as I pressed you for the remainder of day four. Saying something with absolute certainty without providing your reasoning = bad argument.

My actions? pushed scum lynch all D1. Yeah thats quite town.

You said this after you provided proof that you would push a scum lynch on your partner day one.

Insert Sland disbelief Tool actually brings up posts to 'prove' this.

Are you kidding me here? Just scroll through my ISO really quick and you’ll notice that the majority of my posts use quotes.

[zakk]

Excellent. Toolenduso is town, 100%.

NEXT.

[toolenduso]

Note: I wrote this thinking that Slandaar would be alive when I posted it. That's why I refer to him using "you" and speak about him in the present tense. Also, if anything doesn't make sense now that Slandaar is confirmed town, just ignore it -- I'm posting this from work so I didn't want to go back and edit the whole thing.

[Elyse]

Lmfao wow tool sorry that was all for nothing but yeah if you're scum you deserve it.

[Elyse]

Also claim after everyone else tool

[zakk]

Wait, I just realized something

There are 5 people alive. Which means that out of the 5 people, since I have two 100% town reads (me and toolenduso), that there are 2/3 scum for Garmr, Elyse, and Skelda.

That means that Elyse and Skelda are the scum.

I was really hard on the fence about Slandaar and I'm glad he died because things would have been very confusing today if he was left alive.

But I have never pushed Elyse or Skelda very hard so it makes sense why I am still alive.

And Garmr well, he's been nothing if not pretty transparent, whereas I have never gotten that from either Elyse or Skelda.

I am going to go re-read some things and then I'm going to vote.

This game might be a win after all.

[zakk]

Haha. In a sense, the Slandaar kill was pretty much the best possible thing that could have happened.

[Elyse]

No offense, zakk, but that analysis was pretty bad.

Why would the scum kill hinge upon you? Again, not to sound rude, but do you think you're important enough for scum to base their NK on how you would react? I don't think anyone is that important, and if the scumteam believed that truly, why wouldn't they just kill you? I think the scumteam was either aiming for a PR or just trying to confuse us because tool and I were on almost everyone's town list. I (stupidly) already claimed VT and idk why they didn't kill tool but I'm pretty sure he's town so I don't really care.

It seems to me like a bs reason not to vote Garmr.

And suddenly, a zakk/Garmr scumteam makes perfect sense.

[toolenduso]

zakk and Elyse -- speculate all you want, but please for the love of god do not vote yet. A townie vote for the wrong person will kill this game right now and we have time to make sure we get this right.