Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)

[Slandaar]

Sir Bastion lacks logic everyone knows 24 + 0 = 25.

Anyways sorry for showing up late everyone I have been really really busy, I just didn't have a chance to post yet, don't hold it against me please I am just a little late that's all and I am very very sorry but you know how it is; can't post at work and then when you get home gotta make a cup of tea but then realise there are no biscuits left and can't have tea without biscuits so you have to run out to buy some. So, yeah, sorry I missed the opening of this game please don't think I am scum because I didn't show up immediately I really truly am sorry for not getting here first.

VOTE: toolenduso

[Slandaar]

Anyways sorry for showing up late everyone I have been really really busy,

And this is a scumtell...how again?
Because zakk's logic is bad, and now you're sheeping it, so I want to hear your reasoning.

It doesn't make sense to apologise giving your lifestory to explain why you didn't post earlier when you post on the first page and on the first rl day of the game.

He is apologising for nothing which makes no sense from town; hes scum who is nervous.

[Slandaar]

Or...and run with me on this one...

Ugh

It's his first game after a 6 year hiatus and his last game ended with him voting himself and disappearing.
Maybe he's just amped up?

Really?

Amped up is more excitement and ready to go type thing; that wasn't excitement it was more a betrayal of not wanting to be perceived of doing something wrong which is scummy because he had not done anything wrong if he were town he wouldn't feel he had done anything wrong and thus doesn't apologise for not posting.

Because there is no reason for a scum to be any more or less nervous than a town in that particular situation.

Nervous maybe the wrong word; he was worried of being perceived badly and yes there is reason for scum to be more likely to think like that.

What do you think of his interactions with Bastion on Page 2? Are you telling me that he is a nervous and Mr. Magoo-type scum player in that conversation and faking it all since he's so nervous as to do your other tell?
Also, a read on Bastion would be nice.

Overexplaining.

Undecided. I don't care for the bussing stuff.

Lets look into this post;

What I'm saying is, at this stage in the game there's very little logical reasoning a mafia could give to bus their partner.

OK? I don't see what this has to do with anything at all. This is technically true but it doesn't mean bussing doesn't happen.

So I think you'd have to see something pretty convincing at this stage in the game to think something is bussing. Otherwise, you could say any post of one person voting for another was bussing.

Uh nope you don't it happens all the time people can think someone is bussing at any point they like. The question is why they think that.

Unless I'm missing something. Why did you think it looked like bussing, outside of the fact that one voted for the other?

And so we get to the 'point'. Why did it look like bussing? That is literally all this post needed to be.

That is some serious overexplaining (to look town).

Then Bastion gives a fairly bland response and everything is dropped it seems.

[Slandaar]

Justify this a bit, pl0x? I am not a fan.

Sure.

Do a line by line breakdown of what is wrong with my post in regards to overexplaining.

Now let us figure this out; You know we don't agree on anything so instead of letting me do what I do and catch the scum you are trying to come after me for posting something you think is wrong well that is what you should expect to happen when I am town.

I could bring up everything you have posted I don't agree with but I don't; why? because its pointless to argue it as I know I won't agree with you it's just how it is.

In short: You are being very superficial.

What do you think is my biggest scumtell? list a few if you like.

[Slandaar]

Do a line by line breakdown of what is wrong with my post in regards to overexplaining.

I already did.

Oh?

1. Agreeing with him
2. Misunderstanding/repping him.
3. Complaining that he didn't ask the question succinctly...when he did, all he did was add in why he holds the belief he does.

1. Missing the point (Misunderstanding/repping me)
2. Your opinion but how is this related to overexplaining as you have suggested?
3.

You know I think scum can scumslip I think this because they have knowledge town do not and thus they can occasionally slip that information in their posts and then we can catch them because they have released information that they could only have as scum.

Why do you think that?

(assuming X said something and the question is aimed at X)

Not succinctly. Overexplaining is a scumtell.

We have had this exact 'debate' before and I was right so what are you trying to accomplish Thor?

Actually I was pointing out how you were being hypocritical and asking you to justify how the over explanation you did is fine and his is scummy.

I knew what you were suggesting. Mine isn't is the answer.

Currently I have 'over explaining things' and 'acting nervous'
But I don't recall claiming that I had brilliant insight into your scumhunting methods.

What? The question had nothing to do with scumhunting methods.

Is this an awkward straw man, or is it going somewhere wherein you'll explain how it's uncool of me to question someone's scumhunting that I don't agree with?

Simple version;
Before a game even begins you know we will not agree on logic especially if we are both town and you know that actually all that will happen is wall wars where we just don't come to agreement and want to lynch the other.

During game Thor tries to argue my logic is scummy.

Doesn't make sense, I expect if you were town you would have tried alternative methods like seeing if I lurk hard or not, but instead you went the superficial way of arguing logic which is ultimately pointless and not actually going to get you a read that is useful because it always ends the same way. Add to that the fact I have ALWAYS (when town) been correct and it is just a ridiculous strategy from a TownThor plus its always to do with how things are worded so at a minimum a TownThor should have at least tweaked a little.

How can someone expect to read me with a method which is proven not to work?

Thor is fake scumhunting.

VOTE: Thor

Good luck explaining this away Thorsy.

[Slandaar]

How did I misrep that you agreed with him? Because that is what your point said there.

What I'm saying is, at this stage in the game there's very little logical reasoning a mafia could give to bus their partner.

OK? I don't see what this has to do with anything at all. This is technically true but it doesn't mean bussing doesn't happen.

This is technically true means; yes its hard for scum to give a logical reason to bus early because most of the time it would just be on the back of an RVS vote etc.

However

This does not mean scum do not bus during this period of the game so, it is technically true because he is focusing only on logical reasoning. Logical is not the entire spectrum and as such in reality it is not true.

So, no I did not agree with what he said. The point to all of it was its a pointless thing to post in the first place as it means nothing.

Because you're working hard to have something to say about nothing, and that's why I think you twisted it.

Huh? You said I overexplained it this has nothing to do with that.

You point was still complaining that he wasn't succinct enough when the points you said should be cut were explanation of why he had his belief;

basically he did this;

The fruit is round, red, has white pulp, seeds inside, came from a tree, and has a sweet flavor with some tartness.
I believe it is an apple.

Uh no. My example was more accurate because yours ends with a conclusion and his posts did not.

And you then said 'he's *overexplaining*, why not just say he thinks it's an apple, scummy!'
And my counter there is - why didn't you just say 'he's overexplaining' and vote him instead of doing a line by line breakdown of his post (over)explaining how his post is overexplaining?

I didn't overexplain anything. I showed why his post is terrible.

To understand your thought process.
We also haven't had this exact debate unless the word exact has a different meaning than I know of. We may have had a similar one, but only insomuch as I have doubtless questioned your logic in the past - other than that I doubt there is any connection to a past debate.
Feel free to prove me wrong.

Remind me later.

How do you define the difference?

nothing I said was pointless for one.

Then I didn't get the point of the question.
Now that you have my answer anyway...what are you doing with it?

I was looking for you to say lurking which I know you know for the below but you avoided the question is some weird way.

Only if you want to claim that I believe it is impossible to scum read you through analyzing of logic.

No, you have never actually townread me. So, the point was not I think you will never be able to scumread me by arguing logic quite the opposite.

Since I believe that is the way to read everyone and is the only type of scumhunting I do, whether or not I have received a bad read on you in the past I am unsure why I would reinvent my entire method just for you in the present.

Because it does not work and so if you were town and wanted to get a genuine read you would actually try different methods at least for a day or two instead of beginning the wall wars straight away which as you can see are now in full swing so good job with that.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

[Slandaar]

Oh, wait, though he did try to explain Tools reasoning as being scummy for lacking an explanation.
Which, y'know, is the misrep.
And kind of the point.

No I didn't say this anywhere.

Let us recap:

Thor posts;

3. Complaining that he didn't ask the question succinctly...when he did, all he did was add in why he holds the belief he does.

I post this example to show how the whole 'explanation' part is unneeded before the question. The question is all that matters the rest is needless and thus overexplaining.

3.

You know I think scum can scumslip I think this because they have knowledge town do not and thus they can occasionally slip that information in their posts and then we can catch them because they have released information that they could only have as scum.

Why do you think that?

(assuming X said something and the question is aimed at X)

so, Thor says this is a better example;

The fruit is round, red, has white pulp, seeds inside, came from a tree, and has a sweet flavor with some tartness.
I believe it is an apple.

Uh no. My example was more accurate because yours ends with a conclusion and his posts did not.

I say mine is more accurate because Thors ends with a conclusion (and by extension mine ends with a question which Tool's post does). The question was always very important in the whole issue and Thors example dropped it.

Its like ending Tools original post with 'I think Bastion is scum' which is clearly not what happened it ended with the question of why bastion thought it was bussing.

Now; Thor thinks this is some huge misrep? Amusing. He is scum.

i fhe thought the overexplanation was scummy only because it lacked an explanation...

I didn't say this. Clearly that was not ever the point, the point, which can be seen in the original post is that he only needed the question none of the rest.

Thor requires the noose.

[Slandaar]

Sure.

Do a line by line breakdown of what is wrong with my post in regards to overexplaining.

Now let us figure this out; You know we don't agree on anything so instead of letting me do what I do and catch the scum you are trying to come after me for posting something you think is wrong well that is what you should expect to happen when I am town.

I could bring up everything you have posted I don't agree with but I don't; why? because its pointless to argue it as I know I won't agree with you it's just how it is.

In short: You are being very superficial.

What do you think is my biggest scumtell? list a few if you like.

You practically begged him to do so.

You vote for him for fake scumhunting, but as far as I can tell you have intentionally started a wallpost fight and pulled him away from scumhunting.

OK
Bolded 1: Uh not really. I knew he couldn't do it that is kind of why you challenge people to do things in this context.
Bolded 2: I expected a 1-2 word answer maybe a couple more, that is surely too many words!

He initiated. I can ask you 10 questions which wouldn't constitute a wall, but your response would be; that does not mean you are the one responsible assuming wall posting is to be seen as some terrible thing.

Basically you took a small part of my case on Thor and reworded it. Good job.

[Slandaar]

Continued to argue that point by saying I was overexplaining things, ignoring most of the rest of the players.

The argument is flimsy because my tendency to reason things out isn't as good of evidence as other things happening in the game.

Did anyone actually read this?

The reason it is flimsy is because there are better reasons? lol

2. Reacted a little defensively when pressed about his arguments.

Asserts his ability (which is apparently very good, as he said in the quotes I pulled for my fourth point) to scum hunt is being hindered, asserts he is town (which has no value) and calls Thor superficial. It's a little defensive, but it's not like he's blowing up about it. Just a little hint, not the main part of my argument.

Hint of what? defensive isn't a scumtell at all.

3. Goes all Sextus Empiricus on us by saying there's no value in argument.

I could bring up everything you have posted I don't agree with but I don't; why? because its pointless to argue it as I know I won't agree with you it's just how it is.

Simple version;
Before a game even begins you know we will not agree on logic especially if we are both town and you know that actually all that will happen is wall wars where we just don't come to agreement and want to lynch the other.

During game Thor tries to argue my logic is scummy.

Doesn't make sense, I expect if you were town you would have tried alternative methods like seeing if I lurk hard or not, but instead you went the superficial way of arguing logic which is ultimately pointless and not actually going to get you a read that is useful because it always ends the same way.

tl;dr -- arguing logic is pointless. Except the function of voting in this game is based on logic. You vote for people because you have a reason to. This argument against argument is, I believe, his support for his next claim, which I go over in my fourth point.

Well context is required here; Specifically Thor and I arguing logic is pointless. There is more than logic to find scum though for example behavioural patterns.

4. Something I just noticed after reading some more is that Slandaar is basically just asking us to trust him because he's never wrong. Asking people to basically just follow on faith without reasoning it out themselves.

Add to that the fact I have ALWAYS (when town) been correct and it is just a ridiculous strategy from a TownThor plus its always to do with how things are worded so at a minimum a TownThor should have at least tweaked a little.

Context is required again; I am talking about Thor and I's arguments not every argument I ever made on anyone.

[Slandaar]

I'm liking Slandaar less and less. I honestly feel like town Slandaar would have taken my advice and actually started to scum hunt, realizing he was locking horns in a dumb fight.

Thor is scum therefore it is no 'dumb fight'

???

[Slandaar]

In fact lets keep posting because I feel like asserting myself in this game now.

Apologising for nothing as a scumtell can be seen here;
Link

Game finished literally today.

Amazing. So, I suppose now those arguing (THOR) it isn't are going to prove that.

[Slandaar]

hmmm

I dont believe in the misrep, I do think though despite his claims otherwise Slandaar has been the one that has dragged this into the end result we have:

Not that it really matters but; no. It starts at 75 which is where Thor asks a bunch of questions, I respond with a wall hence the point in my example.

you say you and thor knew getting into a argument over your or his logic would end in disaster and that thor went full into it and thats what makes him scummy.

Uh not exactly; Thor knows he won't agree with my logic. So, Thortown would see no point arguing with me as it doesn't matter my alignment disagreeing on logic is purely null and as such will go nowhere. Thortown especially wouldn't suggest my logic is scummy because he knows in fact I always post arguments like the one in question therefore his doing so makes him scum.

you ignored requests for input elsewhere in the game and frankly a quick look at your ISO shows you Have not talked about anything else.

Well him and tool.

Your point in a nutshell is I posted some walls which is at best terrible and I didn't fulfill peoples requests which is pretty bad to do as scum but we will call that null for arguments sake.

[Slandaar]

Also, why are you ignoring how revisionist Slandaar is being?
It's not subtle.

Do show!

Why are you even still voting me Thor when your whole super duper misrep has been proven false?

I didn't respond to tools post purposefully just so you know

[Slandaar]

I addressed post 75 in which he specifically asked for your opinion on a different issue which you ignored.

What Issue?

I am fairly sure I responded to everything in that post.

which is one in the same issue. Do you have an opinion on any other player in the game?

Yes.

How do you feel about the leading wagon on Garmr for example?

Don't care for the wagon.

my point is you are blaming (and voting) thor for a logic fight which frankly you started.

No I explained in 2 lines my reasoning and that could have been that.
He asks a bunch of questions
I post wall in response
He argues.

Which of that is not accurate?

[Slandaar]

Also, a read on Bastion would be nice.

I don't see why it matters but in fact I did respond to that.

what about the people on it.

Do you think its a town led wagon or do you think its got scum in it.

Axxle: Don't know
Zakk: Town
TCold: meh town if I were to guess but I don't like guessing.
Mac: scumish

Garmr is quite meh aswell but again I would guess town.

and since you are here, what is the motivation for scum thor to get into a logic fight with you so early in day 1?

Perhaps there isn't any; to be able to think that he as town wouldn't do it is actually very very very hard; perhaps he felt it would be considered normal for it to happen or expected. The point is he wouldn't do it as town.

And his answer or response was 'I would stick with the same methods' which is quite ridiculous you don't just keep trying things which do not work.

[Slandaar]

Also, why are you ignoring how revisionist Slandaar is being?
It's not subtle.

Do show!

I have.

Sorry, I am blind, you know that please direct me to this.

Multiple other players agree it exists...but for some reason are just deciding it is not scummy.

It doesn't exist I have actually proven it and you have not 'corrected' me. Multiple people thinking it doesn't mean it does exist. Multiple people think aliens have visited Earth, doesn't make it true.

Who are these people anyways?

I didn't respond to tools post purposefully just so you know

The sunglasses make that a town action.

Yeah they do.

Oh...wait.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar; are you ready to lynch Thor, or do you think you need more discussion to make up your mind before fully committing to him hanging? No getting cold feet once this bandwagon takes off.

I am quite happy lynching; his response to my case was no sufficient. The misrep argument is also terrible.

I don't really understand why you are asking me this though it doesn't feel right.

[Slandaar]

It doesn't exist I have actually proven it and you have not 'corrected' me.

You disagreeing with it fails to make it untrue.
Flail more.

Resorting to buzzwords which are in fact not a scumtell and the use doesn't even make sense here.

Thor, the 'no you' strategy isn't going to work.

Also the revisionist thing needs addressing.

Also, just for the record, I'm drunkposting.
And still don'tyt shpeelll lik dits!

Good spelling makes it a town action.

Oh...wait.

[Slandaar]

And then asking Slandaar if he's ready to lynch Thor.

Why he asked this, I have no idea

-- Slandaar has given no other indication than that he wants to lynch Thor. Slandaar responds with this:

I don't really understand why you are asking me this though

it doesn't feel right.

Why say this, Slandaar?

I feel like noone reads Tool's posts.

This is what I'm getting from Slandaar's arguments: "I am correct, therefore there is no point in arguing against me. Any argument you make against me is useless because it is argued based on logic and not behavioral patterns. A behavioral pattern is defined as something that I see and you don't. Logic is defined as something you see."

I feel like Tool has not been reading my posts.

[Slandaar]

Y'know, I tend to like to avoid posting my thoughts on everything interestingly similar to ABR.

However, this game has a lot of suspects and so I am just going to remove myself from the pool later as I am town and this town needs obvtowns at this point. So, expect lots of content on interesting things.

The trouble is I am unsure who actually is scum due to the number of possibilities, Thor I am pretty sure is but then this always happens and maybe he is just this naive to think that he shouldn't change his method of reading me or at least should leave me to post for a bit before coming to any conclusions. When I say always happens its happened 2/2 where we were both town, this is why the case is so strong because of the timing in the meta between us. I know I am under the impression arguing his logic is pointless at this point and so he should think similarly, its just not going to get us anywhere (obviously when one or both of us were scum it doesn't count)

The third game is kinda where you should be considering other options its a bit like playing with a VI (note: I am not saying Thor is a VI we have conflicting approaches) the first game you may not realise they are, maybe even the second but the third you really shouldn't be expecting their logic to be agreeable or what you consider good and thus you give them leeway looking at other ways to read them maybe just use activity levels, VCA, fencesitting type things, waffle wording, that sort of thing, you do not just say 'well that case doesn't make sense you are scum'. (In this scenario probably the second game its more applicable but you get the point)

There is no reason for in a 3rd game to stick to exactly the same method when it has not worked prior and magically it happened again so in the situation Thor is town here it definitely does not work but Thor will continue in a 4th game the exact same strategy to read me? REALLY?

That is where it makes no sense and that is Thors 'defence'; he wouldn't change methods.

Out of context what this means is Thor has said he doesn't mind being wrong on one or two people all the time as he wouldn't make exceptions to how he scumhunts individuals which is clearly terrible if you have meta on someone you should use it. (and this is why the VI example is good)

This actually turned into a nice explanation of why Thor is scum.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar remains worse, but no one notices because they think it's personal.

I love you Thor!

See, noone thinks its personal.

But I do think you are scum. You have given up very easily not even bothering to defend your case after I show its wrong but you just say nu-uh!

The ABR case looks very weak too.

Considering JUST his play this game, Thor is on a scummier side, but not my preferred lynch so far.

However, this game has a lot of suspects and so I am just going to remove myself from the pool later as I am town and this town needs obvtowns at this point. So, expect lots of content on interesting things.

This put Slandaar higher on my scum list.

I see. I seem to move up your scumlist everypost I assume I will be #1 soon?!

Interesting stance to take having both Thor and I as scum.

[Slandaar]

But I do
I have shown the misrep.
It exists.
This is a fact.
You have said that it wasn't intended to be a misrep, and thus it is not.
At that point the only value is arguing your motivation, and I am already on record that I don't see a town motivation for it, and you have failed to even try to show one and are getting poncey about how I'm not debating your lack of logic after showing it exists.
Learn 2 play.

I have literally no clue what you are even talking about; there is no misrep, I even showed post by post the exact conversation from my perspective to prove it. I never said anything about intending or not intending it to be one there wasn't one.

Everything past that is therefore irrelevant because you are just making things up it seems.

[Slandaar]

Thor please stop avoiding my questions. Where is the misrep you continually say exists?

And show this revisionist posting.

I can make the exact same case you presented on ABR on you; just making stuff up the difference is you won't admit it and seem to think I will let you get away with not explaining it.

ABR is town
ICE is scum

You should take that as fact.

I had Ice as scum prior and I will show why soon but here is the evidence;

LOL Albert you crack me up.

Not Town; no stance on the issue and it clearly comes from scum seeing town who made up a case. Think about it another way; Anyone who is town react remotely similar? nope and noone will all you have to do is think about how you reacted when you read it. And the reason for the difference is we don't know ABR's alignment although ICE has now given it away.

[Slandaar]

You responded to the part of the sentence I wasn't questioning. What I was asking was, why did you say it doesn't it feel right?

Because it didn't; the question didn't make sense to ask.

Could you please explain what I missed in your pasts instead of just saying I missed something?

You are not applying context which I told you previously.

[Slandaar]

You mean the one you said you disproved?
Have you forgotten it's existence after "disproving" it?
What are you even asking me for here?

I did disprove it yet you say I didn't

So, the point is you are supposed to now show why my disproving is wrong. Otherwise it just comes over as avoiding which is what you are doing, yes?

And show this revisionist posting.

1. Albert flat out stated he made it up.
2. He also *did* change his story halfway through.

We are talking about your comment regarding

my

posting not ABR's.

Quite frankly, you not even addressing Albert's case strikes me as just as bad.
Remember when I asked you to do so?
Can you quote where you answered me?
Why don't you do so or answer my questions now, that would be awesome.

I am lazy there is absolutely no way I am looking at your meta links as such the case is a bit over my head shall we say.

I don't see why you think I am scum and so sure of it; because of a misrep that doesn't exist.

That part was good.

[Slandaar]

OK I actually wrote this yesterday and don't really feel like ensuring its up-to-date so whatever I was going to add something but I can't remember what and I am not that bothered so its posted as is.

ICE is scum fairly sure been so for a while don't like most of what he posts he is like the guy who sits there in the background posting nice lengthy catchup posts hes there but not there.

Nitpicking the use of bus/distance early on was just absolutely ridiculous.

His early read on Thor also shows he loves wafflefest.

The dumb fight comment is terrible. Town will never view things in such a light because town believe the person is scum so his post is completely backwards. When I saw that post I considered he is scum and Thor town and the dumb fight was his perspective knowing it is TvT. It is at least worth thinking about because actually his posting is very very weak.

I'm liking Axxle less and less

This also betrays him, he likes Axxle less and less for what? not posting? Shouldn't affect read.

Mac the wafflefest host 'I like having my vote somewhere' 'I like holding onto my vote' he has one decent post the rest is a load of waffling and basically just agreeing/disagreeing with others reasoning. A guy who basically doesn't engage with anyone. Looks like scum.

Tool is scummy also for numerous reasons I could reiterate but meh.

Thorlol.

Max not ever voting Garmr doesn't seem completely right but I think hes town enough.

That then obviously leads to Garmr who I don't see too much bad with his posting weak but not scummy.

Zakk's first post basically gives away his alignment; town unless Tool is scum; the difference in levels in his thinking between the apologising and the EBWOP thing are so vast it looks like bussing but thats the only scenario hes scum.

ABR is fairly town I think.

SB is town

The rest as has been said have not posted enough but Gov guy can be scum quite easily too.

[Slandaar]

So, the point is you are supposed to now show why my disproving is wrong. Otherwise it just comes over as avoiding which is what you are doing, yes?

No, because I did reply to your disproval when i called it you disagreeing that there as scum intent and pointed out I disagreed.
What part of this would you like to re-tread?

lol

Who has a clue what Thor is saying here?

Lets relook, I make a nice post 213 showing very clearly how this 'misrep' is laughable.

Since that post; (yeah lots of quotes read it see how Thor just dodges REPEATEDLY)

Why are you even still voting me Thor when your whole super duper misrep has been proven false?

It has not been proven false.
Multiple other players agree it exists...but for some reason are just deciding it is not scummy.

It doesn't exist I have actually proven it and you have not 'corrected' me.

You disagreeing with it fails to make it untrue.
Flail more.

You have given up very easily not even bothering to defend your case after I show its wrong but you just say nu-uh!

I have shown the misrep.
It exists.
This is a fact.

I have literally no clue what you are even talking about; there is no misrep, I even showed post by post the exact conversation from my perspective to prove it. I never said anything about intending or not intending it to be one there wasn't one.

Everything past that is therefore irrelevant because you are just making things up it seems.

@Slandaar - ...riiiight.

Thor please stop avoiding my questions. Where is the misrep you continually say exists?

You mean the one you said you disproved?
Have you forgotten it's existence after "disproving" it?
What are you even asking me for here?

I am embarassed for anyone who thinks Thor is town

Does anyone know what this mystical elusive misrep is? nope noone does Thor sure doesn't.

This is extreme dodging, Thor has not once referenced or tried to defend the 'misrep' accusation after I disprove it. He is scum.

[Slandaar]

You were revisionist when you claimed his point had issues for being over explained

That is what I said

then clarified it to lacking a conclusion

Nope never did this quotes are required

immediately

or you will be branded as lying and lynched as such.

then clarified it to...whatever it is now, I dunno. Apparently you hate that he expressed his reasoning when asking a question and making a statement and that this is somehow because he was nervous scum. It doesn't make sense and you did change your argument.

See you do know the argument. He only needed the question not the rest of the post.

So...basically your plan is to not address a case that someone made, based on lies, and instead you'll call them town without understanding it and me scum.
This is why you are scum.

For not wanting to look at meta links?

I understand that is made up so, uh, I do understand it???

If he were scum I very much doubt he cares so much about being the big man, its a town thing, I know.

This isn't even close to being justifiable for you ducking the case and expressing your opinion on it - even the lurkers have managed that much, why are you so scared to? Is this why you find Tool scummy, because you think it's scum play to weigh in on ongoing discussions or something?

So, I can't be bothered looking through loads of meta and thats not justifiable?

I see.

Doesn't seem like it is alignment indicative to me Thor.

[Slandaar]

Well show me this misrep I assume you know what it is Ice.

[Slandaar]

The misrep is you saying that tool overexplained himself during his opening post and that he didn't want to be perceived as doing something scummy.

That is an opinion not a misrep.

So, someone else any ideas?

[Slandaar]

ffs...are you blind to my posts?

I just don't see the need to repeat myself you can find it if you read my posts.

The part you can't should be obvious; He told you why he fabricated it; that is why he did it whatever his alignment.

[Slandaar]

I showed clearly that I have asked Thor multiple times to show the misrep (after I showed its wrong) which as you may or may not realise is his entire case on me until very recently he has failed to address this every time.

So, what is the town motivation for that?

The scum is simple; dodging.

[Slandaar]

I will tell you the town motivation: there isn't any. He has no argument but as he has said himself he knows people don't pay attention so he doesn't care thus one must go to extreme lengths to ensure issue is resolved the way it needs to be ie Thor being lynched.

[Slandaar]

And literally noone knows the misrep so that kind of proves the point Elyse is being ridiculous SB has no clue, Ice vanished immediately.

[Slandaar]

Use quotes, that post is less than accurate.

[Slandaar]

I mean its pretty ridiculous that post changes what I say its literally misrepping me.

[Slandaar]

Here

See how I use quotes and Thor doesn't once? Yeah probably indicates something, also probably indicates something the way he avoided this like 10 times and still failed with quotes.

[Slandaar]

The whole point?

THORS WHOLE CASE ON ME WAS MISREP MISREP MISREP WHEN HIS CASE WAS A MISREP

Thor is scum.

[Slandaar]

Thor says I said X

So all he needs to do is prove it using a quote of mine

how is this not a reasonable request tool?

Especially when his whole case relies on it.

[Slandaar]

How about Thor just show the quote that makes his case.

Shouldnt be hard, right?

[Slandaar]

If he were scum I very much doubt he cares so much about being the big man, its a town thing, I know.

Now onto the important issue of Thor proving I said what he suggests is a misrep.

[Slandaar]

So,...as I understand it, you *didn't* actually need to see my misrep case again, and all your constant complaining about that has either been mudslinging, or just a whiny attempt to get me to post my case again so you could complain about it.

What you *really* wanted all this time and were unable to say is: Thor, I'd like you to address Slandaar's dismissal of your misrep case in a point by point, quote wall debate.

Which, incidentally, is one of the things you are calling me scummy for trying to do with you.

Do you see how this, also, looks insane?
And also is something I have specifically told you I chose not to do because I saw no value in doing it.

Don't play dumb you knew what I was asking you to do.

The value is pretty obvious from your POV to see my version is correct (or hypothetically know for certain its not) and it is thus you can drop your nonsense case (or not) and move on IF you were town but at this point its just obvious you are not so whatever this is why you see no value to it.

Thor - :offers an analogy: I think he just did this.
Slandaar - that might make sense...except he didn't offer a conclusion!

Well this is what Thor has been suggesting is a misrep

Uh no. My example was more accurate because yours ends with a conclusion and his posts did not.

Side by side
Thors Version: that might make sense...except he didn't offer a conclusion!
Actual Version: My example was more accurate because yours ends with a conclusion and his posts did not.

Thor has completely changed the meaning of the post and is misrepping me.

What the argument is about using Thors own words;

then clarified it to...whatever it is now, I dunno. Apparently you hate that he expressed his reasoning when asking a question and making a statement and that this is somehow because he was nervous scum. It doesn't make sense and you did change your argument.

See you do know the argument. He only needed the question not the rest of the post.

I clarify (the true version)

Proof my version is correct;

And so we get to the 'point'. Why did it look like bussing? That is literally all this post needed to be.

Yep, it just needed to be the question none of the rest.

NOW

Looking at the examples;

3.

You know I think scum can scumslip I think this because they have knowledge town do not and thus they can occasionally slip that information in their posts and then we can catch them because they have released information that they could only have as scum.

Why do you think that?

(assuming X said something and the question is aimed at X)

Mine ends with a question as it is mandatory.

The fruit is round, red, has white pulp, seeds inside, came from a tree, and has a sweet flavor with some tartness.
I believe it is an apple.

Thors ends in a conclusion so I say;

Uh no. My example was more accurate because yours ends with a conclusion and his posts did not.

Lets look to ensure the post DOES end in a question and not a conclusion;

EDBWOP (thanks Garmr for the definition)

I guess what stage of the game it is would matter a little bit.

What I'm saying is, at this stage in the game there's very little logical reasoning a mafia could give to bus their partner. So I think you'd have to see something pretty convincing at this stage in the game to think something is bussing. Otherwise, you could say any post of one person voting for another was bussing.

Unless I'm missing something.

Why did you think it looked like bussing, outside of the fact that one voted for the other?

Yep thats a question.

Clearly no misrep.

This has been Thors entire case for like 15 pages he is scum.

[Slandaar]

If you could provide a scum read that isn't me with your reasoning for having that belief, it would be awesome.

Sure.

Thor please stop avoiding my questions. Where is the misrep you continually say exists?

And show this revisionist posting.

I can make the exact same case you presented on ABR on you; just making stuff up the difference is you won't admit it and seem to think I will let you get away with not explaining it.

ABR is town
ICE is scum

You should take that as fact.

I had Ice as scum prior and I will show why soon but here is the evidence;

LOL Albert you crack me up.

Not Town; no stance on the issue and it clearly comes from scum seeing town who made up a case. Think about it another way; Anyone who is town react remotely similar? nope and noone will all you have to do is think about how you reacted when you read it. And the reason for the difference is we don't know ABR's alignment although ICE has now given it away.

OK I actually wrote this yesterday and don't really feel like ensuring its up-to-date so whatever I was going to add something but I can't remember what and I am not that bothered so its posted as is.

ICE is scum fairly sure been so for a while don't like most of what he posts he is like the guy who sits there in the background posting nice lengthy catchup posts hes there but not there.

Nitpicking the use of bus/distance early on was just absolutely ridiculous.

His early read on Thor also shows he loves wafflefest.

The dumb fight comment is terrible. Town will never view things in such a light because town believe the person is scum so his post is completely backwards. When I saw that post I considered he is scum and Thor town and the dumb fight was his perspective knowing it is TvT. It is at least worth thinking about because actually his posting is very very weak.

I'm liking Axxle less and less

This also betrays him, he likes Axxle less and less for what? not posting? Shouldn't affect read.

Mac the wafflefest host 'I like having my vote somewhere' 'I like holding onto my vote' he has one decent post the rest is a load of waffling and basically just agreeing/disagreeing with others reasoning. A guy who basically doesn't engage with anyone. Looks like scum.

You know you probably should read the thread...

A deeper explanation of why what ABR did was a town tell would also be appreciated (by others, not me, but I'll ask again just for their sake).

Well another way of looking at it is he could have just argued on if he were scum instead of committing suicide which he has, he is going to be lynched and he would have known that.

[Slandaar]

The context you're referring to is that you're only talking about your argument with Thor. And yet here is your exact quote:

Arguments

You use the word always. You even type it in all caps. The word "always" means that what you're saying applies to situations other than the one you're currently in.

I always take a shower at 5pm on Holidays

DOES NOT MEAN

I always take a shower at 5pm

This is the 4th time you have taken things out of context specifically regarding me, keep trying.

[Slandaar]

Well show me this misrep I assume you know what it is Ice.

The existence or non existence of any misrep that may or may not have happened has

zero

implications of my read on you. Now please start being useful or I will seriously just start skipping your posts because you hardly ever say anything new. I seriously cannot believe how caught up you are on shit that happened in the first few pages of the game when there is SO. MUCH. CONTENT. TO. TALK. ABOUT.

God I hope we have a vig...

So the answer is no you had no clue and thus it needed attention considering it is Thors entire case.

I am not posting it to make anyone think I am town, I am posting it to make everyone see Thor is scum.

Big Difference.

Nice take on things though. It doesn't matter when things happen; Thor focused on it for the entire duration I have shown during said timeframe I asked multiple times for him to show it; he didn't and so forcing the issue had to happen.

What do you think about Thors case on me being completely made up by changing my wording?

[Slandaar]

X: A said B
X: B is misrep A scum!!!

A: I didn't say B I said C here is a quote showing I said C
X: You misrep you scum! (x10)

A: Quotes are required now
X: Uh Oh.

A compares B and C proving AGAIN he did not say B in fact saying C.

X is scum clearly.

X is Thor.

[Slandaar]

And we could go on; Thor could have actually been protown instead of using wording to act like he was.
What do I mean by this? If he wanted to be protown he could have just (tried) to show where my original explanation wasn't correct. His whole case was based on the premise of this misrep so it would be in his interest to show how my explanation wasn't correct if he actually believed it.

He did not.

Instead he decided to drag this out for 10 pages (number is arbitrary) until I had enough of his nonsense.

Thor is scum.

[Slandaar]

OK Garmr I have a question for you.

Why would Thor change the wording and thus the meaning of what I have said to invent a case on me if he were town?

[Slandaar]

You *are* agreeing with me that my example makes sense except that it ends in a conclusion.

It makes sense if you had a question at the end but the question is very very important so no your example isn't good.

You continually crop Tool's post to cut out his conclusion and focus on the examples and a question - in other words cutting his post in half and then suggesting he's working overhard to explain something that goes nowhere.

lol

This was not your point previously as you clearly never said anything about cropping posts.

Anyways... Where exactly have I done this 'cropping'?

[Slandaar]

If you are town you have been counter productive, a long with slandaar you have brought in some serious baggage with thor which has poisoned this game so far and I wouldnt be surprised if its revealed at the end that its the reason we've had players *requesting* replacements, not just dropping out, but actually saying *No I want out*

What baggage?

Thor is scum there is nothing more to it.

[Slandaar]

@ABR - why do you think your case on me got as far as it did for what it was if I am scum?

What you are implying is scum sheeped the case which means that in fact your suspicions are in the wrong places.

Otherwise town sheeped and then the answer is town sheeped so???

[Slandaar]

baggage:

Before a game even begins you know we will not agree on logic especially if we are both town and you know that actually all that will happen is wall wars where we just don't come to agreement and want to lynch the other.

During game Thor tries to argue my logic is scummy.

Doesn't make sense, I expect if you were town you would have tried alternative methods like seeing if I lurk hard or not, but instead you went the superficial way of arguing logic which is ultimately pointless and not actually going to get you a read that is useful because it always ends the same way. Add to that the fact I have ALWAYS (when town) been correct and it is just a ridiculous strategy from a TownThor plus its always to do with how things are worded so at a minimum a TownThor should have at least tweaked a little.

How can someone expect to read me with a method which is proven not to work?

Well if you want to call meta baggage...

[Slandaar]

Those things are pretty much the same thing, with a spin on it to emphasize how unreasonable you're being. And you call it a misrep (I'm starting to begin to think no one in this game actually understands what misrepresentation is).

No they are not the same thing, look similar, but the change makes the meaning different.

Ever play Chinese Whispers? Yeah.

I never said what Thor suggests and his whole case was (note: he has now changed it) based on that change without the change the case doesn't exist and thus the difference is important.

[Slandaar]

Heh.

Perhaps its just me, but expecting a player to act a certain way because you played against each other before is not meta.

Its you.

'I expect X to be more loud as scum if scum here because I caught him lurking scum last time'

Meta.

[Slandaar]

"I expect X to avoid challenging me on this issue, because when me and X fight like this in the last game we get into such a hissy girly fight that one of us ended up lynched. So X will not challenge me even though he doesnt know if I'm scum or not he will leave me be and not question me or pressure me or come near me in any form because last time that ended badly for us "


Thats not meta.

I don't see why I need to explain it as the example should have been enough.

If you play with someone in a few games they will figure out how to read you or should at least figure out things that don't work (relates to both alignments) and so knowing what does and does not work to read someone you adapt to read them using what does and avoid what doesn't.

Thors play has not evolved at the level I would expect it to if he were town here.

That is a meta case.

[Slandaar]

Correct, I said misrep - oddly my misrep description specifically noted how you weren't addressing what he really did, and my cropping comment is not an actual different comment.

I addressed his whole post initially after which there was no need.

I literally just said. You even know what you're being accused of cropping. Fire. Go die in it.

I asked where not what.

Basically you are saying you don't like my original argument.

Thats it isn't it?

lol.

I am just going to leave this here as it actually shows exactly what I have been saying all along.

[Slandaar]

Basically you are saying you don't like my original argument.

Thats it isn't it?

I've been saying that since you presented your original argument - yes.

So for 22 pages that has been your entire case. Hardly a big issue. My alignment is related to belief of the argument not the argument itself.

'I think this post should have just been a question'
'NO WAY YOU SCUM YOU CANT POSSIBLY THINK THAT'

Are we lynching Thor now or what?

[Slandaar]

Logic is pointing to ABR as scum but this wagon is developing too easily without enough counter. Slandaar really is the only one pushing elsewhere.

The only way this makes sense is if both scum buddies is in Slandaar and [all the lurkers]. Which now that I think about it, could be entirely possible, but still.

I'm feeling uneasy about this.

What are people's opinion of lynching Slandaar today and worrying about ABR later? The biggest reason I can think of to not do this would be that ABR already claimed, but beside that gut is telling me this is the right move.

TCold would still be a solid option too, though it looks like he's going to end up being force replaced, and we did just get a new player. I suppose I'll sit on this for a little. For the record I'm still willing to lynch ABR but day 1 wagons that have so minimal counter push tend to fall on town.

This is scum too.

'Only Sland push elsewhere lets lynch him!'

Uh well there won't be any pushes elsewhere except from ABR (maybe) so its the same scenario, I see what you are trying to do though.

[Slandaar]

I did a quick bit of Googlefu and all that popped up is a game from over a year ago (Mini 1347)
Hurm, and looks like also Mini 1390 from a year ago.
Maybe that's it?
1390 was me town and Slandaar scum though, and the way Slandaar is talking it sounds like there was another game inbetween here and there with him as town, but I'm totally blanking on what it is.

We have played 5 or 6 times now...
One you probably wanted to forget

And the interesting thing?

Remarkably similar to here

Its like you have not adjusted even a tiny bit.

[Slandaar]

And so people know I am not insane, my reads D1 were very very good in that game, can't be bothered going to show other games that was randomly chosen basically.

[Slandaar]

I addressed his whole post initially after which there was no need.

If by whole post you mean 'part of his post' then I agree.

Saying I addressed only part of his post doesn't make it true.

If you know what, then you ought to know whether you have done it or not already.

Not relevant. I wanted to see what you are talking about specifically as opinions can differ, don't know why I bothered though as I

know

you are scum.

[Slandaar]

Anyways I know a lot of people missed it so;

After proving Thor's accusation was not a misrep he has now changed his argument to cropping. I mean everyone knows this has happened he suggests it is rewording which (its not) we are going to pretend is true.

So, to recap:
I said the post only needed a question none of the rest so I was in effect saying it needed cropping.

Thor is accusing me of cropping the post.

lol

That is my only response, it is just ridiculous, what kind of accusation is that? 'I think this post needs cropping' 'You cropped the post you scum!'

Is Thor town?
Don't just see lots of words with a bunch of sarcasm and confidence and say town because that isn't going to help you read him; it is quite null for him. Thors actual arguments are BAD plain bad they don't look to figure out alignment they don't go deeper than surface level 'I don't like your argument'. Thor is better than that he is not town.

[Slandaar]

Unfortunately ABR made it easy for Thor to get out of the stranglehold I had on him because he looks like a victim and people sympathise with victims.

[Slandaar]

I really feel like zakk is bussing tool.

But Thor and Ice are scum so not enough scum slots left. Elyse also seems to have continued her slots legacy of running wafflefest.

[Slandaar]

Thor I like how you suggest I have not tried very very hard to lynch you.

Who has tried harder than I to lynch someone?

I just can't be bothered anymore.

[Slandaar]

I like how you ignored the very specific points I raised against what you were doing and then substituted in 'not trying hard' which is not something I ever said about what you were doing.
I did say you were trying in a very bad and dumb way though, so you're partly right.
It helps if you read people's reactions to the case you are presenting and, y'know, address the issues they raise or adapt your style to get through to them.

mhmm.

Which of your 'very specific' points was not covered by what I said?

[Slandaar]

You are such a scumbag ice.

[Slandaar]

I've told you time and time again to actually contribute to this game instead of repeating over and over and over (ad nasium) about the same points that

every single player in this game besides you

agree are meaningless.

I'm not the only one frustrated about it. I'm just calling it like I see it.

Oh we got a reaction

Honestly. Please.

Do us a favor and read your own ISO. I want you to understand the % of your content that is related in one way or another to some misrep that may or may not have happened in the first few pages of the game.

It's overwhelming. You're unwilling to talk about anything else.

Your entire case on Thor is predicated on how he responds to interactions regarding this misrep. You made some pathetic attempt to scum hunt me and then that was it, back to "look how Thor handled this SUPER FUCKING IMPORTANT misrep, he's SO FUCKING OBVIOUSLY SCUM".

Do you even have opinions of players besides Thor?

Explosion.

Sure I will answer your question;

You are such a scumbag ice.

Good Job.

I am scum right? shouldn't matter if I call you scum you don't need to worry about that no need for such theatrics. But then I am town and you are scum so that explains that.

Thor then chirps into the situation

@Ice - I wouldn't hold your breath, he's actually trying to pick a random fight with me for pointing out what's happening, and he doesn't even notice that I'm right.

PREVIOUSLY IN THOR VS SLANDAAR:

If you could provide a scum read that isn't me with your reasoning for having that belief, it would be awesome.

Sure.

Thor please stop avoiding my questions. Where is the misrep you continually say exists?

And show this revisionist posting.

I can make the exact same case you presented on ABR on you; just making stuff up the difference is you won't admit it and seem to think I will let you get away with not explaining it.

ABR is town
ICE is scum

You should take that as fact.

I had Ice as scum prior and I will show why soon but here is the evidence;

LOL Albert you crack me up.

Not Town; no stance on the issue and it clearly comes from scum seeing town who made up a case. Think about it another way; Anyone who is town react remotely similar? nope and noone will all you have to do is think about how you reacted when you read it. And the reason for the difference is we don't know ABR's alignment although ICE has now given it away.

OK I actually wrote this yesterday and don't really feel like ensuring its up-to-date so whatever I was going to add something but I can't remember what and I am not that bothered so its posted as is.

ICE is scum fairly sure been so for a while don't like most of what he posts he is like the guy who sits there in the background posting nice lengthy catchup posts hes there but not there.

Nitpicking the use of bus/distance early on was just absolutely ridiculous.

His early read on Thor also shows he loves wafflefest.

The dumb fight comment is terrible. Town will never view things in such a light because town believe the person is scum so his post is completely backwards. When I saw that post I considered he is scum and Thor town and the dumb fight was his perspective knowing it is TvT. It is at least worth thinking about because actually his posting is very very weak.

I'm liking Axxle less and less

This also betrays him, he likes Axxle less and less for what? not posting? Shouldn't affect read.

Mac the wafflefest host 'I like having my vote somewhere' 'I like holding onto my vote' he has one decent post the rest is a load of waffling and basically just agreeing/disagreeing with others reasoning. A guy who basically doesn't engage with anyone. Looks like scum.

You know you probably should read the thread...

A deeper explanation of why what ABR did was a town tell would also be appreciated (by others, not me, but I'll ask again just for their sake).

Well another way of looking at it is he could have just argued on if he were scum instead of committing suicide which he has, he is going to be lynched and he would have known that.

And as he so eloquantly put it nothing is actually happening now because I am not pushing on him which he has tried to take advantage of and twist (note: he dodged my question) so no nothing has changed.

Or to be even more obvious;

I really feel like zakk is bussing tool.

But Thor and Ice are scum so not enough scum slots left. Elyse also seems to have continued her slots legacy of running wafflefest.

If anyone actually wants to lynch scum these 2 clowns are pretty obvious.

[Slandaar]

@Slandaar - I read your post, and I actually don't even understand what you're accussing me of

You and Ice both suggest I have not posted my thoughts on others when I have.

You suggest it after I had already shown you previously I had.

Which shows a complete lack of paying attention and just asking pointless questions. Ice even suggested I havn't posted thoughts on anyone other than you when in the post he is responding to I called him scum so...

or what question you think I dodged.

Specific points.

This is coming from a player who town or scum is always willing to argue. I know that me "dodging" is part of your scum case, but a mild look through my games should show you that is something I never do. Here I am, the drama queen of debate, and I have been actively involved in this debate, and I literally can't even tell what you're accusing me of here.

OK its simple.

You show me the specific points my response does not cover.

What do you think are the chances, then, that anyone not involved (i.e. the rest of the players) have any clue what is going on?

It doesn't matter much at this point. When I flip town tomorrow you will be lynched.

Even if you want to keep pressing on me, it is painfully obvious that you need to change your method if you want anyone to pay attention.
I am suggesting that your lack of willingness to do so is anti-town. I've even come around to the idea you are town, and if I could understand your case I'd be happy to crush it because it might de-tunnel you, and I can't do that because I don't even understand what you're on about.
Even if I was scum and you were town - you would *still* be anti-town with what you are doing.

The case is what its always been which you are telling me not to post again but in the exact same post are saying I should...

When did this magical revelation happen? You accused me only yesterday of not trying to oppose the ABR wagon which I have clearly done all game until recently as it takes a lot of energy.

Maybe after the Al flip you'll reset - I really hope so.

Probably not.

Why did he unvote you in the first place? I never really understood that if he were scum.

If not you and I may need to hydra or something, because I think it would help you.

Thanks for the offer but I don't like hydras I don't dislike them to the extent I won't play with them but greatly prefer not having them in games and so I won't ever hydra with anyone. Its plain annoying having to read 2+ people instead of just one and the confusion it brings... its not how the game is supposed to be.

[Slandaar]

Do you even have opinions of players besides Thor?

DOES NOT EQUAL

I think what both of us are tagging you on is not *discussing* (and, at least for me, clarifying) your reads.

This is quite clear, Thor and Ice are buddies.

[Slandaar]

I like how you ignored the very specific points I raised against what you were doing and then substituted in 'not trying hard' which is not something I ever said about what you were doing.

Which of your 'very specific' points was not covered by what I said?

Insert Post of Thor not answering

(note: he dodged my question)

or what question you think I dodged.

or what question you think I dodged.

Specific points.

This is coming from a player who town or scum is always willing to argue. I know that me "dodging" is part of your scum case, but a mild look through my games should show you that is something I never do. Here I am, the drama queen of debate, and I have been actively involved in this debate, and I literally can't even tell what you're accusing me of here.

OK its simple.

You show me the specific points my response does not cover.

Show me all the colors that are not red.

That is called dodging questions which is the second time Thor has done it.

[Slandaar]

Here I will explain it a different more productive way;

Do you even have opinions of players besides Thor?

[/quote]
What is an acceptable answer to this question?

I could say; yes I think x is scum. I could say yes I think x and y are scum.

But lets look at facts; he already knows the answer, he knows I think hes scum, so a valid answer is; yes I think you are scum which is an absolute complete waste of time. It is fake.

I think what both of us are tagging you on is not *discussing* (and, at least for me, clarifying) your reads.

Thor then tries defending it with some nonsense about how no that wasn't ices question and he (Thor) wasn't agreeing with it instead he changes the meaning of what Ice asked into something completely different.

The question clearly was not 'Can you discuss your read on me with me'

[Slandaar]

If Slandaar is town I want to apologize a bit for being so rude on D1, especially since it seems like you're right.

That being said, if you're town, i

very much

expect some new content from you.

I also don't see any reason to lynch tool currently, so that should pretty much cover my current opinions on anyone. Feel free to ask me questions if anyone wants anything deeper on any particular player.

You need to buddy me harder than that Icey Icey.

Yes it's pretty clear he's scum of some kind but let's try to figure out if it's possible we're dealing with two killing factions here at least, first. Could there be a serial killer or a second mafia group? Is it possible that Thor is town and one of them killed F-16 to frame him?

I realize this will probably bring a lot of suspicion on me to even suggest that,

Yep.

but I feel like everyone is too excited to lynch something that seems like a sure thing, and I want to holster our guns and realize that the people who were killed died for a reason. Who did Maxous suspect? Who else did F-16 suspect? Who else did Albert suspect?

Thor, Thor, Thor.

Well that was easy.

IceNinja comes next (regardless of what I said about about Thor wanting him dead, which might mean Thor believes he is rival scum of some kind). He seems to think things through a little better than Garmr and generally comes across as pro-town, but there are less eureka moments when I read his posts. I really liked early on when he admitted that he'd vote for who the person he is voting was also voting. That didn't seem to come from a scum mindset because I don't think scum would admit something that sounded so inconsistent with a particular train of thought. I also liked #267, and especially #268. I don't want to lynch IceNinja for now.

Of course you don't... for now.

Slandaar is sitting in a volatile spot for me. I can't really read him too well. I think his early attack on Thor could have been elaborate bussing, but we'll see how he acts when Thor is dead. If he starts finding other scum immediately I can't say I will hate that in the least. And if scum decides to kill him off, at least it will rid us of a pretty WIFOMy slot which has strong ties to Thor. I may get a better read on him after reading some of his later posts though. So stay tuned.

What? How is my slot WIFOMy? Thor is scum I am town pretty straight forward.

May aswell save you some time: You died.

[Slandaar]

I feel like the NK on Maxous suggests zakk is probably not scum. Maxous was one of the few people saying zakk is town, and he also laid out a fairly solid case towards the end of the day in post 719. While there's always a lot of WIFOM is trying to analyze the night 1 kill, I feel like scum would do more to prevent the night kill from having any interaction with Thor, and shooting someone who just made a decent case on scum Garmr but didn't push it (and was told by me to pursue it further) just kind of makes sense.

Yep.

Preeeetty WIFOM.

I like how you know that but still try and use it in some way. Max was the obvious kill doesn't matter who is scum. That's it.

[Slandaar]

Thor please stop avoiding my questions. Where is the misrep you continually say exists?

And show this revisionist posting.

I can make the exact same case you presented on ABR on you; just making stuff up the difference is you won't admit it and seem to think I will let you get away with not explaining it.

ABR is town
ICE is scum

You should take that as fact.

I had Ice as scum prior and I will show why soon but here is the evidence;

LOL Albert you crack me up.

Not Town; no stance on the issue and it clearly comes from scum seeing town who made up a case. Think about it another way; Anyone who is town react remotely similar? nope and noone will all you have to do is think about how you reacted when you read it. And the reason for the difference is we don't know ABR's alignment although ICE has now given it away.

VOTE: Thor

Lynch Ice tomorrow.

[Slandaar]

Oh yeah ICE kept trying to direct the wagon onto me yesterday because I was a more valuable target for scum but never led the way. He knew ABR dies today due to VT claim etc and knew he was not an issue so was continually trying to shift wagons when ABR was his top scumread.

He is scum.

He will be lynched tomorrow, don't even think, I will be dead just vote him sheeping me.

[Slandaar]

Milking the week? What for? their content doesn't change todays outcome so they can post tomorrow and have another whole night to ensure they are caught up.

Lynch Lynch Lynch.

Here I even will provide you with the post to vote Iceninja tomorrow. Just click quote remove the quote tags and submit!

VOTE: ICENINJA

I am so generous.

[Slandaar]

I've never encountered a hider before. It gets fake claimed a lot, so I typically lynch anyone who claims to be one.

Which implies you know what a hider does.

Ouch.

I hope you like my new content Ice I am posting it just for you!

[Slandaar]

when he admitted that he'd vote for who the person he is voting was also voting. That didn't seem to come from a scum mindset because I don't think scum would admit something that sounded so inconsistent with a particular train of thought.

Nope it shows how he is thinking about how his actions will be perceived which comes from scum a lot more than town.

If he does it as town he definitely does as scum it doesn't work the other way round.

See?

[Slandaar]

But if he flips scum

IF?

If Thor flips scum?

There is no if. If he doesn't you are scum so from your POV he IS scum.

You are dead sunshine.

[Slandaar]

Reinvigorated is the term I believe.

[Slandaar]

Yes I take the vow.

[Slandaar]

^^^
Town.

Of course I'd already said that, but. y'know, nice to see.

Yes Yes I am town.

Ice and You are both scum.

Everybody knows now, it just took a PR to save them all.

[Slandaar]

I have another 12 days 18 hours of this? ughhhhhhhhhh

Thor is scum lynch him.
Ice is scum lynch him tomorrow.

We need not discuss further.

[Slandaar]

Oh 3rd scum is Zakk 'Slands slot is wifomy' 'Slands not on same team as Thor'

[Slandaar]

See, now there is nothing to discuss, lynch.

[Slandaar]

I didn't know a hider died if he hid behind scum.

Lynch all liars: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p2279014

I highly doubt IceNinja is scum

lol

We all saw what happened on Day 1, didn't we?

I caught scum?

Yeah you don't want that to happen again.

[Slandaar]

11 days 18 hours.

Its like torture.

Lynch Thor then Lynch Ice it really is simple.

[Slandaar]

Ice isn't town. He saw a hider flip which he has been proven to know means they hid behind scum and didn't react to it.

IF he forgot what they did you would think if he is town he would refresh his memory on what it actually does in one of multiple ways;
1. ASK (in thread)
2. Ask the mod
3. Check the Wiki

Also hes getting into a dumb fight about it which if he were town I think he would realise and wouldn't do (lol)

[Slandaar]

VOTE: ICENINJA

[Slandaar]

I'm not sure. He's definitely on the list, but I don't see any damning evidence. Do you?

I do.

The part where he was like 'haha you are hilarious ABR making up a case on Thor!!!' Clearly not town.

[Slandaar]

So the answer is no you had no clue and thus it needed attention considering it is Thors entire case.

I glanced over it, thought "This is pretty unimportant, I'm going to pay attention to things that actually matter now", and the more you and Thor went on about it the more sure I was that one of you was scum.

Pretty sure which one it is right now.

What do you think about Thors case on me being completely made up by changing my wording?

That you're oversensitive about having the wording slightly changed to explain why he thinks what you did was scummy. Let me give an example:

Side by side
Thors Version: that might make sense...except he didn't offer a conclusion!
Actual Version: My example was more accurate because yours ends with a conclusion and his posts did not.

Those things are pretty much the same thing, with a spin on it to emphasize how unreasonable you're being. And you call it a misrep (I'm starting to begin to think no one in this game actually understands what misrepresentation is).

OK SLANDAAR I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU.

WHY DO YOU THINK REPEATING OVER AND OVER AGAIN THIS SAME SHIT THAT NO ONE BUT YOU THINKS IS SCUMMY IS GOING TO MAKE US THINK HE IS SCUMMY?

@Ice - Actually, looking at those reads, I'm starting to lean 'not Slaandar' with ABR, really. What do you think about that?

The voting patterns indicate that Slandaar and Albert are

probably

not connected, but day 1 voting patterns I take with a grain of salt until the lynch happens. I don't want to go in to my reasoning as for why I think Slandaar is scum based on Albertscum in case I'm wrong about Albert, I think it's pretty dumb (and sometimes even benefiting of scum) to go too much in to associative tells when everyone involved is alive.

Bastion's summary of Albert's actions in 518 is pretty much spot on. It is quite similar to what I was planning on posting, minus the fact that I would word "appeal to authority" as using sheer force of will/personality to accomplish a goal instead of using logic, which has been a trend sch as his "defense" against my original attack on him. While I know this simply is something Albert does, the fact that he has no good scum leads at the moment (or all day really) and has been using this force anyway to direct town seems to play a lot more to a scum win condition than town.

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHH LEAVE THOR ALONE!!!

Well show me this misrep I assume you know what it is Ice.

The existence or non existence of any misrep that may or may not have happened has

zero

implications of my read on you. Now please start being useful or I will seriously just start skipping your posts because you hardly ever say anything new. I seriously cannot believe how caught up you are on shit that happened in the first few pages of the game when there is SO. MUCH. CONTENT. TO. TALK. ABOUT.

God I hope we have a vig...

I DUNNO WHATS GOING ON I HAVE NO OPINION ON IF THERE WAS A MISREP OR NOT BECAUSE I AM A SCUMBAG WHO HAS NOT LOOKED AT WHAT THOR IS SAYING

Like, I seriously cannot believe that pretty much 2 pages were dedicated to talking about this.

Thor's suggestion of Slandaar being lynched after Albert flips scum makes a lot of sense to me, as I have already stated that Albert being scum makes Slandaar look like scum too.

YEAH SLAND SCUM IF ABR SCUM!!! HAR HAR HAR THAT WILL STOP SLAND TRYING TO LYNCH MY BUDDY THOR!!!

Thor just stop engaging him. We all realize how insane he sounds.

HEY THOR IGNORE SLAND PLEASE BUDDY YOU ARE GOING TO GET LYNCHED OTHERWISE

Also, with the VT claim, I'm pretty much happy lynching ABR at this point.

I do want the replacements to have some more time to contribute, however, and TCold really needs some damn attention right now.

We've got a few days, but I don't think day 1 needs to run up to the deadline

OK ABR CLAIMED VT LETS LYNCH HIM!!!

Logic is pointing to ABR as scum but this wagon is developing too easily without enough counter. Slandaar really is the only one pushing elsewhere.

The only way this makes sense is if both scum buddies is in Slandaar and [all the lurkers]. Which now that I think about it, could be entirely possible, but still.

I'm feeling uneasy about this.

What are people's opinion of lynching Slandaar today and worrying about ABR later? The biggest reason I can think of to not do this would be that ABR already claimed, but beside that gut is telling me this is the right move.

TCold would still be a solid option too, though it looks like he's going to end up being force replaced, and we did just get a new player. I suppose I'll sit on this for a little. For the record I'm still willing to lynch ABR but day 1 wagons that have so minimal counter push tend to fall on town.

HRM THIS IS TOO EASY MAYBE ABR TOWN ANYONE WANNA LYNCH SLAND INSTEAD??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's three votes on Garmr and three on Thor right now. Do those not count as wagons?

Not if you look at WHO the votes on Garmr are.

"I barely remember Thor"
"Thor is so good at scum he can make me have doubts"
"Thor is being so bad and oversimplifying, he is obv. scum."

Flail more.

While I admit I've been nodding along with much of what ABR has said, exactly this kept popping in my head. Honestly, I was this close || to being convinced that I was wrong and ABR is town but he lies about knowing how Thor plays. Repeatedly. And this isn't the drawing people out and gathering reads, this is blatantly lying about what you know about Thor.

Go to MD and look at my playstyle as scum. I broke it down for you.

No, meta defenses like this are scummy. You're certainly too good of a player for it to be that easy to tell.

Barring something dramatic, i'll be voting Garmr or Thor at the end of the day period.
I'll wait and see where the replacements vote etc.

And this actually makes me feel a little better about my decision.

My vote stays where it is. I'm not confident at all here, but I feel like this is town's best bet.

OK I AM HAPPIER TO LYNCH ABR NOW THAT MY TOWN READ MAX HAS SHOWN OPPOSITION TO IT!

You're at L-2. I highly doubt you'll end up quicklynched. I as well don't like all the AtE you've been putting out.

And just to remind people, deadline is actually coming up soon. We've got a few days, but if someone wants to derail this wagon on ABR it had better be right now, and damn convincing.

ANYONE WANNA DERAIL THE ABR WAGON??? ANYONE??? I COULD USE A WAGON ON A TOWNIE TO SEE WHAT THEY CLAIM!!!

I'm feeling a lot better about this ABR lynch based on things like what Maxous just said and how so many people are deliberately avoiding this elephant in the room.

This feels a LOT more like trying to lynch scum. It is HARD to.

YEAH MAX SHOWING OPPOSITION TO THIS WAGON MAKES ME FEEL HAPPIER WITH THE LYNCH!!!

I've told you time and time again to actually contribute to this game instead of repeating over and over and over (ad nasium) about the same points that

every single player in this game besides you

agree are meaningless.

I'm not the only one frustrated about it. I'm just calling it like I see it.

LOOK SLAND STOP TRYING TO LYNCH THOR AND DO SOMETHING ELSE LIKE HELP ME LYNCH TOWN ABR

Honestly. Please.

Do us a favor and read your own ISO. I want you to understand the % of your content that is related in one way or another to some misrep that may or may not have happened in the first few pages of the game.

It's overwhelming. You're unwilling to talk about anything else.

Your entire case on Thor is predicated on how he responds to interactions regarding this misrep. You made some pathetic attempt to scum hunt me and then that was it, back to "look how Thor handled this SUPER FUCKING IMPORTANT misrep, he's SO FUCKING OBVIOUSLY SCUM".

Do you even have opinions of players besides Thor?

PLEASE LOOK HOW MUCH YOU ARE TRYING TO LYNCH MY BUDDY THOR!!! I STILL DONT UNDERSTAND THIS MISREP STUFF!!!!

Because I'm quite happy with either lynch. As of this moment, I'm more confident in ABR flipping scum, though not by much.

If town really wanted to swing and lynch Slandaar instead today (as I believe I've alluded to before) I'd be alright with that. There just doesn't seem like much momentum for that.

AH COME ON YOU GUIZ LETS LYNCH SLAND!!! HE HASNT CLAIMED AND ABR WHO I AM CONFIDENT IS SCUM IS GOING TO BE LYNCHED BUT THAT DONT MATTER SLAND LYNCH MUCH MORE PROFITABLE FOR ME!!!!

[Slandaar]

Its a fantastic case showing why Ice is undoubtably scum. Do you understand the part where he suggests ABR is an easy lynch then his TOWN read Max shows opposition and he immediately changed his stance to 'yeah OK I am happier now!'

[Slandaar]

I mean I understand it Ice is scum trying to appear town that IS his posting in a nutshell the content is terrible.

Whats his case on me? I was trying to lynch scum all Day 1 lol.

[Slandaar]

He even has the audacity to suggest Thor was never being lynched Day 1 when he would have been if ABR didn't back out (TOWN ABR).

[Slandaar]

Zakk and Ice are scum.

You can tell the way Zakk waffled and waffled about me/Thor yesterday hes scum.

[Slandaar]

A quick look at vote counts shows Skelda as the most likely partner to Thor, and based literally just on the D1 lynch zakk is the only other possibility if neither Skelda nor Slandaar is scum.

And look its just too perfect 'IF SKELDA AND SLAND TOWN' (TRUE) Zakk is scum! (TRUE)

Its a scum thing to semi distance.

[Slandaar]

Sland/Thor w/Daychat Sland bus Thor D1

Looks quite different to here especially noteworthy is how little I actually press and my postcount. Lynch Ice now enough of the nonsense.

[Slandaar]

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHH LEAVE THOR ALONE!!!

If you notice, I wasn't telling you to leave Thor alone. I was telling you to shut the fuck up about a point that was stupid and made no sense and to start scum hunting, because you weren't. This, ladies and gentleman, is actually a misrepresentation, unlike what half of day 1 was arguing about.

Firstly: You actually responded to this post... Uh good job? There literally is no point to doing so.

Secondly, that is only a misrep if you are town and I knew you are town otherwise its completely fine so uh, nope, not a misrep just me showing why you as scum would post what you did.

I like the effort you're putting in though!

[Slandaar]

Are you guys kidding me right now?

Someone take your vote off me. No town player should be ready for a lynch at this point, and no town player should be demanding a claim at this point.

I am ready and I am town thanks.

This isn't page 10, there has been enough discussion already we don't need 30 pages to choose a lynch everyday thank you.

[Slandaar]

Think about it. How many players told Slandaar to STFU and he never listened? Even Thor himself had an awkward response in post 462 that really made me make a weird face though I didn't understand at the time. Thor was, through daytalk, pushing Slandaar to push push push and they had this HUGE d1 back and forward. It was the perfect distancing scheme.

How many of you would, as town, do what Slandaar did d1 with such a stupidly weak case? Both Slandaar and Thor damn well knew Thor wasn't going to be lynched d1.

I have shown a game where we had daychat and I bussed Thor out Day 1, ICE has failed at this point to acknowledge this and explain why the huge differences do not matter as it shows his case is completely wrong.

SLAND META WITH ICE. (AKA GOODBYE ICE YOU SCUMBAG)
My Town Meta
ICE was in this game you need to refer to the dead thread though to see it in full as he died n1, however, I tunnel Pine religiously for days on end as I did Thor and amazingly ICE could read me as town there, yep, Ice=scum.

In summary: Just Lynch ICE.

[Slandaar]

I mean, Slandaar, throw me a bone here. If you're such a profitable lynch that both Thor and IceNinja wanted out of the way (your very own comment on IceNinja's post 697, ring a bell?), then what's your brilliant hypothesis on why you haven't been killed at night yet?

The point is he tried shifting wagons off of someone he was confident is scum onto someone who he is less confident is scum AFTER the first person (ABR) had claimed VT.

That is pure profits for scum. Also ABR was already dead he was never surviving the make a case up stuff so my lynch was worth infinitely more.

Brilliant Hypothesis?
N1: HAR HAR LETS LYNCH SLAND TOMORROW KILL MAX HE OBVTOWN
D2: OH WELL THOR DIED
N2: Fitz is PR lets kill him.

N2 could be different for example: LET KILL FITZ HE IS OBVTOWN AND GONNA VOTE ICE JUST LIKE SLAND BY FITZ EVEN LESS LIKELY TO BE LYNCHED THAN SLAND.

Wasn't really a brilliant hypothesis more like common sense.

[Slandaar]

Well damn. OK. That sucks.

Neither Maxous nor F-16 feels like a vig kill to me. Slandaar would have shot Thor if he was a vig, and anyone else probably would have shot Slandaar.

I'm not going to assume anything, but this feels like either a two-family mafia game or we've got a serial killer.

I'm now having serious doubts about Thor. I obviously can't trust ABR completely, as I still don't understand why he played the way he played, but he might have been on to something.

My current biggest suspects are [zakk, fitz, Garmr, Skelda] because I'm almost certain there was at least one scum lurking throughout that entire debacle, and one of Thor or Slandaar but not both.

Looking at the votes for day 1, I'm feeling like Garmr is a good bet right now.

Vote Garmr

.

WAT A HIDER JUST FLIPPED I DUNNO WHAT IT DOES AND I AM NOT GONNA CHECK OR ASK WHAT IT DOES OR ANYTHING BUT DAMN THAT SUCKS!!! ONE OF THOR AND SLAND SCUM BUT NOT BOTH!!!!!

Yeah...

[Slandaar]

Thor, my case on you is made up. The reason I made it up is because I wanted to teach you that if you go against me, this is what will come of it. It's not wise for you to go against me. I'm stronger. I scumhunt better. I get who I want lynched more often than you do. Remember that. Tell your QT buddies if you're scum.

Unvote Thor

I'll revisit this vote when I deem it appropriate. For now, I want to let you do your dance in front of the new players.

Vote Axxle

LOL Albert you crack me up.

I HAS NO OPINION ON THIS MADE UP CASE I NEED TO SEE WHAT OTHERS THINK FIRST!!!!!!!!! ABR SURE IS HILARIOUS THOUGH MAKING CASES UP THAT SURE IS FUNNY!!

I mean I said it at the time; it is very clearly from scum who knew ABR is town; just think about it.

I can go on about how ICE is very obviously scum but eh I think thats enough for now.

[Slandaar]

I lied.

I'm liking the zakk votes, though, and I'm still thinking TCold could use some rope.

Hey look at that, zakk posted.

I now strongly feel like this guy is the best bet for our lurking scum.

My current biggest suspects are [zakk, fitz, Garmr, Skelda]

I feel like the NK on Maxous suggests zakk is probably not scum. Maxous was one of the few people saying zakk is town, and he also laid out a fairly solid case towards the end of the day in post 719. While there's always a lot of WIFOM is trying to analyze the night 1 kill, I feel like scum would do more to prevent the night kill from having any interaction with Thor, and shooting someone who just made a decent case on scum Garmr but didn't push it (and was told by me to pursue it further) just kind of makes sense.

Zakk is likely scum for what? who knows... and then Zakk not scum because max got nightkilled? how does this make any sense? IT DOESN'T.

This is the scumteam.

And for reference later ICE says;

A quick look at vote counts shows Skelda as the most likely partner to Thor, and based literally just on the D1 lynch zakk is the only other possibility if neither Skelda nor Slandaar is scum.

And look its just too perfect 'IF SKELDA AND SLAND TOWN' (TRUE) Zakk is scum! (TRUE)

Its a scum thing to semi distance.

Obvious.

[Slandaar]

Skelda is town because he didn't know Thor was confscum with daychat just to fill that blank in. Lynch ICE and be happy.

[Slandaar]

There is more

It's in Slandaar's best interest to lynch this quickly.

That should tell you something about his alignment.

Crash and Burn.

Sland Town calling for lynch on page 4
Nice try with the protown sounding argument though.

I really must check if you accused Thor of being scum for wanting to lynch quickly.

PLEASE HOLD

One moment...

For the record I find Thor's call for a speed lynch to be perfectly reasonable.

CRASH AND BURN.

[Slandaar]

Finally, let's look at this:

Vote Count 1.21

havingfitz

(0)
ICEninja (0)
zakk (0)
Garmr (2) Skelda,

Maxous

toolenduso (0)
Sir Bastion (0)
Slandaar (0)

Thor665

(2) Slandaar,

Albert B. Rampage

Elyse (0)

Maxous

(0)

F-16_Fighting_Falcon

(0)

Albert B. Rampage

(7)

Thor665

, toolenduso, Sir Bastion, ICEninja, Elyse, Garmr,

F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Skelda (0)

Not Voting:

havingfitz

, zakk

ooooooooooooooooooooooooh how pretty!

Theres greens and reds I love it! thank you Ice I will treasure it forever!

Here are a few assumptions I feel safe making for the purpose of day 3's lynch:
1) There was

NOT

a whole scum team voting for ABR here.

One of those assumptions that in fact is worthless.

2) Due to Elyse flat out ensuring Thor's death at the beginning of day 2, it is safe to say she is not scum.

Eh, no, someone was going to point it out it was pretty obvious. Oh and scum had daychat.

3) Scum having directed BOTH of their night kills to people off the ABR wagon suggests that there are probably 2 scum on the wagon.

Or they killed Max who was pretty unanimously townread and then Fitz who is a PR... who knows? If we are saying 2 scum on the wagon why not just say all 3? oh right point 1!!!

Number 3 especially makes sense considering the people OFF the wagon who are still alive is a grand total of Skelda, Slandaar, and zakk. Zakk is a weak town read because I don't think scum would have wanted to kill the only guy calling him town.

Yeah this is pretty laughable.

Maybe they killed Max because he was a unanimous townread and didn't care too much about Zakk's 'only town read' because one townread isn't going to do a lot is it?

Slandaar tunneled Thor unbelievably hard the entirety of Day 1. There's NO POSSIBLE way that town Slandaar could have known from that retarded misrep debacle that Thor was scum. He was SO SURE. Because he WAS sure. Duh.

Or I am town who read Thor based on a high level meta case.

Tunneled unbelievably hard for practically nothing as some might say ... yep thats my town meta.

[Slandaar]

Trying your best to lynch scum on day 1 instead of town is also pure profits for town.

True.

I provided pure profits for town on D1. Thanks for that?

I also find it funny that Slandaar isn't including the other scum, Garmr (I'll explain in a bit), in the scum team.

He isn't willing to take the risk that once I flip town and Garmr scum that people are going to remember that I called out the whole scum team on day 3.

That is funny!

Can you explain the bolded please? I don't actually understand what you are saying and I am sure its a scum thing so yeah help me lynch you! thanks.

The only way scum can win is to lynch 2 townies in a row, pretty much. So long as everyone takes the time to really digest the information and look at where Slandaar's motives have been all game, town will close this one out.

You mean trying to lynch Thor (scum) and not being a part of any mislynches?

That seems pretty town motivated to me.

[Slandaar]

I'd be down with Slandaar dying, I suppose. He seems to fit nicely with Thor as scum.

Do go on.

[Slandaar]

But I think this is the second time you've argued that scum killed fitz because he was a PR. How were they supposed to know he was a PR before he died?

There is a reason for killing Fitz that is completely plausible; he was a PR. That is a reason in itself.

Is it right? its a very plausible reason which means any talk about why he was killed is pointless.

[Slandaar]

@Slandaar: From scum's point of view, there was no way to know whether fitz was a cop or not.

How do you know this?

lol.

[Slandaar]

Or a tracker or a watcher etc or they POE'd him or picked up a crumb.

Yeah.

[Slandaar]

And what is the townie reason then?

[Slandaar]

Well why was Fitz killed?

[Slandaar]

Here is the easy way to prove Ice is scum;
Ice what exactly do you not understand about my case on Thor?

I caught him using meta; that can just happen.
He accused me of misrep
I proved its not
He dodged me for 10 pages
He then changed his argument to cropping which had nothing to do with a misrep.

Which of this are you saying isn't correct? how does this not make Thor scum?

[Slandaar]

In fact someone not voting ICE show me any point I have made which isn't actually just plain good and then show me ONE point ICE has made on me that is even remotely good that doesn't involve he bussed which is just nonsense. Maybe I am just town who caught scum? there goes that argument.

ICE hasn't shown one thing I have done which is scummy. Not One. He is just trying to take advantage of weaker town not understanding how I caught Thor.

[Slandaar]

You only have to show one point.

I am doing it to get ICE lynched not prove I am town which should be beyond obvious anyways.

[Slandaar]

Whatever you are scum I can't be bothered with you anymore you are dead today one way or the other.

[Slandaar]

Why don't people want to lynch toolenduso? On my skim she had a pretty bad excuse to vote ABR. And the prod-dodges (I'm a hypocrite, I know) gave me a very early scumread. I'd also be willing to lynch Thor, but he has enough votes now.

VOTE: Vote: toolenduso And the people with me and fitz as anything other than null prior to now are bad players, unless they are ABR, obviously.

How is he confirmed? Surely I didn't miss a guilty result or something. I have no qualms about voting for him, honestly, but I feel like I'm not in on something.

Then what do you expect me to say? I'm pretty lost here.

[Slandaar]

Well it does considering you would assume scum would mention Thor was doomed in their qt so as scum he would read it there and know Thor is dead.

If they didn't... doesn't your case involve elaborate qt use? huh.

[Slandaar]

I'm liking Axxle less and less

AXXLES ONLY POST IN THE PREVIOUS 100;

Matrixdodge.gif

Liking him less and less for what?

I really want to hear from fitz and Skelda though. I had a scum read on both Axxle and TCold,

Why?

This is scum just accusing the least active players of being scum.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar I was lurker hunting. The activity disparity in this game was disgusting and I was hoping to kick it up a notch from players refusing to play. Hardcore lurking during day 1 is indeed scummy, so that one thing Axxle posted legitimately gave me a scum read on him for the purpose of day 1.

Thanks for hunting down lurkers for us ICE!

What exactly did Axxle say which made you scumread him again?

Why are you still even bothering to scum hunt me? You already know my alignment but you've fooled enough people.

Because you are not dead yet.

I can't find a single vote count that incriminates him as scum.

Find one that incriminates me.

It looks like I have very limited support for a Slandaar lynch today. Can I get any support behind this?

Unvote, vote Garmr

.

Thor did the same thing.

[Slandaar]

Does this look like some possible scum slip?

Like she knows slandaar will flip scum but is trying to play it humble.

It didn't make a lot of sense to me when I read it but thinking about it..

Why am I flipping at all? (not from lynch; nightkill maybe) so why would he be dying regardless of my flip? I have to flip for that to happen. And why is he suggesting we are going to LYLO?

Its actually quite possible he thought he hammered me and slipped I am town (hence the LYLO talk and my flip talk). It all adds up except the last line of the post. The unvote when he realises he hadn't hammered follows this idea also.

I will think about it more.

[Slandaar]

What exactly did Axxle say which made you scumread him again?

He prod dodged without providing content shortly after, if I recall correctly.

He prod dodged and the flaked; that is a good reason for calling someone scum.

Find one that incriminates me.

I have, and explained in depth. No I'm not going to repeat it, no I'm not going to link you, because you already know exactly what I'm talking about and I'm really tired of your antics.

You showed a VC where I was voting scum and not the town wagon which you were on. That clearly doesn't incriminate me. I mean its not exactly rocket science 'hey guys sland was voting Thor all day 1 he was either bussing or town who caught scum' no VC can support your version.

Time for you to show how my case on Thor wasn't brilliant?

Thor did the same thing.

What, call out the entire scum team? Because that's what I did. If I can't lynch one of them, what good am I to town?

You are hilarious.

I am talking about how you are giving up trying to lynch me and pursuing easier targets when I am still your top read. That is EXACTLY what Thor did.

[Slandaar]

Garmr

OK here are the facts.

Not one person could show any of my points on ICE to NOT be good.
Not one person could show any points ICE has made on me that are not 'oh he bussed' which is countered with 'no I am town who caught scum'

Clearly ICE is scum.

This is getting to the same levels of nonsense as trying to lynch Thor. Just lynch Iceman stop looking at the easier lynches.

IF you think I am scum and ICE town and you are town I hear Thor has an opening for a Hydra partner I am confident he will whip you into better shape.
IF you think I am town and just wrong, look at Thor, just sheep.

This lynch is so HARD it feels exactly like a scumlynch. (I learnt that from ICE)

[Slandaar]

Garmr

(5) Axxle, zakk,

TCold

, Macros,

Albert B. Rampage

Slandaar

(3)

Maxous

,

Thor665

, Sir Bastion

Thor665

(1)

Slandaar

GuthrieGov

(1) Garmr

Albert B. Rampage

(2) ICEninja, toolenduso

Not Voting:

GuthrieGov

TCold

(1) ICEninja

zakk

(1) Garmr

Garmr

(4) Axxle, zakk,

TCold

, Macros

Slandaar

(2)

Thor665

, Sir Bastion

Thor665

(3)

Slandaar

,

Albert B. Rampage, Maxous

Not Voting:

toolenduso,

GuthrieGov

zakk

(1) Garmr

Garmr

(3) Skelda,

TCold

,

Maxous

Thor665

(3)

Slandaar

, zakk,

Albert B. Rampage

Albert B. Rampage

(5)

Thor665

, toolenduso, Sir Bastion, ICEninja, Elyse

Not Voting:

F-16_Fighting_Falcon

There are some pretty VC's what does it mean? not a lot without knowing Garmr's alignment. Assuming hes town you are very likely to have scum in [Axxle, Zakk, Macros] it also makes the likelyhood of scum being in [ICE, tool] high.

If hes scum final scum is [Tool, ICE, Elyse]

ICE is in all the wrong places how surprising.

ICE DID briefly vote Thor when Thor looked to be getting lynched Contrary to what ICE suggests that Thor was never in any danger but it was brief and when ABR came out with the 'I made the case up' that was that. The sheer fact ICE suggests Thor was never being lynched shows he had NO conviction in his vote when he made it.

[Slandaar]

V/LA till Monday

[Slandaar]

Slandaar, you "caught" Thor because he said you misrepped someone when you didn't feel you did. This isn't grounds for tunneling super hard on someone the entire day. You made up a bullshit case and kept your vote on him

because he fucking told you to

.

No I caught him using Meta which you yourself said was good reasoning at the time. It made him scum; his response made him scum that was always the overarching case.

Not that it matters now. I really want to see flip but I am not going to

[Slandaar]

Skelda please stop being completely useless. Why do you think I am scum?

When someone makes argument after argument on town and noone could point to one of those arguments and say its bad that person is town.

Therefore I am town, if you don't believe it go and look at games in general it is very very hard for scum to rattle off arguments that are actually good against TOWN (important its town) try and find one where it happens (multiball doesn't count obviously)

There is literally no argument against me except bussing on D1 why? doesn't make any sense. Why is it a bus and not town catching scum someone needs to address this because daychat? uh nope, that doesn't mean anything. Why would the plan be to bus the guy who gives daychat on D1? It wouldn't. Someone explain why its more likely daychat means bussing than not bussing why wasn't Thor saying to not bus each other? doesn't make any sense the existance of daychat does not make these things more likely because town do not know what was said; there is no reason to assume anything in this regard its just plain bad to do so.

Scum is Zakk and Tool

VOTE: No lynch

See you tomorrow. You all (-1) have a few days to check what I said to conftown me.

[Slandaar]

Yep get to it Tool I want to see this 2000 word essay.

My actions? pushed scum lynch all D1. Yeah thats quite town. What are your town actions?

[Slandaar]

Slandaar, you have made bad points, and bussing doesn't seem impossible to me. Scum like to bus and distance D1. I still want zakk should be the one to die. So do you think we should just vote now and get it over with? Or are we going to do this No Lynch routine?

Obviously we are no lynching this isn't up for debate.

For those who do not understand why:

Noone is confirmed town.
There are still likely PR(s) alive.

No lynch forces scum to kill increasing odds of lynching scum (insert math here) AND gives PR(s) an extra night of actions.

[Slandaar]

I wasn't going to respond to this but eh I have to start scumhunting back to basics etc.

And a town lynch all d3.

Yup.

It doesn't cancel or even out the Day 1 actions.

I've been looking for scum all game:

Thats cool.

Insert Sland disbelief Tool actually brings up posts to 'prove' this.

And is there any way of knowing exactly how many mafia we're dealing with? Because I've seen suspicious stuff from several people now.

Thor for being quite zealous to lynch. (could just be style)
Albert for contributing nothing. (also could just be style, but not a great one if that's the case)
Slandaar for latching onto the least scummy thing that's happened all game on p3 as evidence for a vote. (I'll admit I'm a little biased on it being the least scummy thing given that the vote was against me, but I really don't think me apologizing for being late says anything)

I'mma

FoS: Albert

out of those three because I don't understand a town's logic in avoiding conversation.

IMO doesn't matter a whole lot whether we quicklynch Thor or not. So for now, in the interests of digging through what we have, I'll

UNVOTE: Thor665

That being said, Thor is a good scum player. But he's been backed into a situation where he has very few options for what he could do. So yeah, everything he's doing right now -- including trying to get people to take his "vow" -- is basically the only options he has left. The vow is pointless and designed to create suspicion between townies.

So, between these 2 posts where was your scumhunting? (joke; no more quotes please)

Want to see my scumhunting? view my ISO. In other words your 'town actions' I have also performed however mine led to pushing scum all D1. What now?

[Slandaar]

Drat, drat, drat. I'm going to lose you the game, I can feel it. And Elyse, shouldn't we no lynch today and then massclaim and lynch tomorrow?

I have townvibes from Gramr

and Elyse. I think zakk and ICE are scum.

I'm nullish on tool, although I've had a weird feeling about them.

@Skelda: Why are you null on me?

I've felt like I've not liked some of the reasons for your hopping on wagons, but at the same time I don't think I'm convinced you are scum either. It doesn't matter, I'll be voting zakk or Slandaar in LyLo.

Maybe Garm if I get some good reasons to, but if you are scum you've won.

Well that is hugely strange to say the least.

[Slandaar]

No, its how Tool wins as he is never being voted while a null read but Garmr could receive a vote while being a townread there is a clear lack of cohesiveness to it.

I literally cannot wait to read your novel the anticipation is killing me.

[Slandaar]

And on the subject of meta lets do an experiment.

Below are 7 of my ISOs from various games for each answer this simple question.
Do you think my alignment in that game is the same as here?

There is an obvious point to this, I am literally going to show you I am town, don't cheat and check the flips before hand; view ISO and answer.

For some reason the links are failed so just copy/paste don't actually click the links they will bias you.
Game 1:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=16634
Game 2:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=16634
Game 3:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=16634
Game 4:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=16634
Game 5:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=16634
Game 6:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=16634
Game 7:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=16634

[Slandaar]

My links you need to copy/paste them after 'http://forum.mafiascum.net/' I dunno they just wouldn't work and I didn't notice it did that when I posted them.

[Slandaar]

The answer is obviously yes. I have already shown it in this thread, I bussed Thor out day 1 WITH daychat.

The difference between the 2 games is like black and white though.

[Slandaar]

Just skim and answer the question for each.

You said you wanted to meta me, this is a form of doing so. It should take 15-20 mins tops the reason you don't check alignment is because you are comparing it to this game in doing so we can then look at the alignment of the games and see if you have any scum games similar to this or any town games. Obviously the point is I think you will say all the town games are similar.

[Slandaar]

I never said I havn't bussed D1 ever.

Go and find the quote.

[Slandaar]

That is like saying that you have been scumhunting which makes you town but then it turns out you were 'scumhunting' as scum too you can't post fluff all game after all.

What are town actions? list some and let us apply your logic.

[Slandaar]

I just lynch the people who give me the most grief if I get too emotionally involved in lynching my man D1 Tool/ICE were the 2 its obvious when I think about it I used to do it a lot more than I do now but it still happens.

The only person past D3 I townread was Skelda everyone else seemed like scum.

Slandaar, I'd appreciate it if you avoid queuing or replacing in to games that I'm already in.

Likewise. If you don't want to listen to someones negative opinion on you don't give them yours.