Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)

[N]

Vote Count 3.02

ICEninja

(4) Skelda, Elyse, Slandaar, Garmr

zakk

(0)

Garmr

(0)

toolenduso

(1) Sir Bastion

Sir Bastion

(0)

Slandaar

(1) ICEninja

Elyse

(0)

Skelda

(0)

Not Voting:

zakk, toolenduso

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-11-10 11:06:27)

[ICEninja]

What new information are you even talking about? I seriously don't see how me never having encountered real hiders before except as fake claims (and learning that they're often used as fake claims) but not really understanding how they work make me scum.

Because I read the wiki article 3 years ago and apparently knew at some point?

I still haven't seen anyone point out how me pretending to not know what a hider does would make any sense as scum ANYWAY.

[Slandaar]

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHH LEAVE THOR ALONE!!!

If you notice, I wasn't telling you to leave Thor alone. I was telling you to shut the fuck up about a point that was stupid and made no sense and to start scum hunting, because you weren't. This, ladies and gentleman, is actually a misrepresentation, unlike what half of day 1 was arguing about.

Firstly: You actually responded to this post... Uh good job? There literally is no point to doing so.

Secondly, that is only a misrep if you are town and I knew you are town otherwise its completely fine so uh, nope, not a misrep just me showing why you as scum would post what you did.

I like the effort you're putting in though!

[Slandaar]

Are you guys kidding me right now?

Someone take your vote off me. No town player should be ready for a lynch at this point, and no town player should be demanding a claim at this point.

I am ready and I am town thanks.

This isn't page 10, there has been enough discussion already we don't need 30 pages to choose a lynch everyday thank you.

[Slandaar]

Think about it. How many players told Slandaar to STFU and he never listened? Even Thor himself had an awkward response in post 462 that really made me make a weird face though I didn't understand at the time. Thor was, through daytalk, pushing Slandaar to push push push and they had this HUGE d1 back and forward. It was the perfect distancing scheme.

How many of you would, as town, do what Slandaar did d1 with such a stupidly weak case? Both Slandaar and Thor damn well knew Thor wasn't going to be lynched d1.

I have shown a game where we had daychat and I bussed Thor out Day 1, ICE has failed at this point to acknowledge this and explain why the huge differences do not matter as it shows his case is completely wrong.

SLAND META WITH ICE. (AKA GOODBYE ICE YOU SCUMBAG)
My Town Meta
ICE was in this game you need to refer to the dead thread though to see it in full as he died n1, however, I tunnel Pine religiously for days on end as I did Thor and amazingly ICE could read me as town there, yep, Ice=scum.

In summary: Just Lynch ICE.

[Slandaar]

I mean, Slandaar, throw me a bone here. If you're such a profitable lynch that both Thor and IceNinja wanted out of the way (your very own comment on IceNinja's post 697, ring a bell?), then what's your brilliant hypothesis on why you haven't been killed at night yet?

The point is he tried shifting wagons off of someone he was confident is scum onto someone who he is less confident is scum AFTER the first person (ABR) had claimed VT.

That is pure profits for scum. Also ABR was already dead he was never surviving the make a case up stuff so my lynch was worth infinitely more.

Brilliant Hypothesis?
N1: HAR HAR LETS LYNCH SLAND TOMORROW KILL MAX HE OBVTOWN
D2: OH WELL THOR DIED
N2: Fitz is PR lets kill him.

N2 could be different for example: LET KILL FITZ HE IS OBVTOWN AND GONNA VOTE ICE JUST LIKE SLAND BY FITZ EVEN LESS LIKELY TO BE LYNCHED THAN SLAND.

Wasn't really a brilliant hypothesis more like common sense.

[Slandaar]

Well damn. OK. That sucks.

Neither Maxous nor F-16 feels like a vig kill to me. Slandaar would have shot Thor if he was a vig, and anyone else probably would have shot Slandaar.

I'm not going to assume anything, but this feels like either a two-family mafia game or we've got a serial killer.

I'm now having serious doubts about Thor. I obviously can't trust ABR completely, as I still don't understand why he played the way he played, but he might have been on to something.

My current biggest suspects are [zakk, fitz, Garmr, Skelda] because I'm almost certain there was at least one scum lurking throughout that entire debacle, and one of Thor or Slandaar but not both.

Looking at the votes for day 1, I'm feeling like Garmr is a good bet right now.

Vote Garmr

.

WAT A HIDER JUST FLIPPED I DUNNO WHAT IT DOES AND I AM NOT GONNA CHECK OR ASK WHAT IT DOES OR ANYTHING BUT DAMN THAT SUCKS!!! ONE OF THOR AND SLAND SCUM BUT NOT BOTH!!!!!

Yeah...

[Slandaar]

Thor, my case on you is made up. The reason I made it up is because I wanted to teach you that if you go against me, this is what will come of it. It's not wise for you to go against me. I'm stronger. I scumhunt better. I get who I want lynched more often than you do. Remember that. Tell your QT buddies if you're scum.

Unvote Thor

I'll revisit this vote when I deem it appropriate. For now, I want to let you do your dance in front of the new players.

Vote Axxle

LOL Albert you crack me up.

I HAS NO OPINION ON THIS MADE UP CASE I NEED TO SEE WHAT OTHERS THINK FIRST!!!!!!!!! ABR SURE IS HILARIOUS THOUGH MAKING CASES UP THAT SURE IS FUNNY!!

I mean I said it at the time; it is very clearly from scum who knew ABR is town; just think about it.

I can go on about how ICE is very obviously scum but eh I think thats enough for now.

[Slandaar]

I lied.

I'm liking the zakk votes, though, and I'm still thinking TCold could use some rope.

Hey look at that, zakk posted.

I now strongly feel like this guy is the best bet for our lurking scum.

My current biggest suspects are [zakk, fitz, Garmr, Skelda]

I feel like the NK on Maxous suggests zakk is probably not scum. Maxous was one of the few people saying zakk is town, and he also laid out a fairly solid case towards the end of the day in post 719. While there's always a lot of WIFOM is trying to analyze the night 1 kill, I feel like scum would do more to prevent the night kill from having any interaction with Thor, and shooting someone who just made a decent case on scum Garmr but didn't push it (and was told by me to pursue it further) just kind of makes sense.

Zakk is likely scum for what? who knows... and then Zakk not scum because max got nightkilled? how does this make any sense? IT DOESN'T.

This is the scumteam.

And for reference later ICE says;

A quick look at vote counts shows Skelda as the most likely partner to Thor, and based literally just on the D1 lynch zakk is the only other possibility if neither Skelda nor Slandaar is scum.

And look its just too perfect 'IF SKELDA AND SLAND TOWN' (TRUE) Zakk is scum! (TRUE)

Its a scum thing to semi distance.

Obvious.

[Slandaar]

Skelda is town because he didn't know Thor was confscum with daychat just to fill that blank in. Lynch ICE and be happy.

[Slandaar]

There is more

It's in Slandaar's best interest to lynch this quickly.

That should tell you something about his alignment.

Crash and Burn.

Sland Town calling for lynch on page 4
Nice try with the protown sounding argument though.

I really must check if you accused Thor of being scum for wanting to lynch quickly.

PLEASE HOLD

One moment...

For the record I find Thor's call for a speed lynch to be perfectly reasonable.

CRASH AND BURN.

[ICEninja]

You're cute when you're pretending to be self-righteous.

that is only a misrep if you are town and I knew you are town

Exactly. Thanks for pointing out to town why I said this in the first place.

I am ready and I am town thanks.

You really sure are trying to insist this a lot, aren't you?

I have shown a game

That's nice. I've already said in this game that trying to defend yourself via meta is scummy. Especially trying to point to one example? Please, I've done completely different things in every game I've played as scum.

That is pure profits for scum. Also ABR was already dead he was never surviving the make a case up stuff so my lynch was worth infinitely more.

Trying your best to lynch scum on day 1 instead of town is also pure profits for town. At that point ABR was trying to fight tooth and nail to stay alive, and I was having doubts. There was no guarantee that ABR was the lynch at the point you are referencing.

Most of the rest of that you said sounds like a yippy dog barking. You do realize that Thor calling for a lynch wasn't ACTUALLY calling for a lynch, right? Whereas you are.

I also find it funny that Slandaar isn't including the other scum, Garmr (I'll explain in a bit), in the scum team. He isn't willing to take the risk that once I flip town and Garmr scum that people are going to remember that I called out the whole scum team on day 3.

The only way scum can win is to lynch 2 townies in a row, pretty much. So long as everyone takes the time to really digest the information and look at where Slandaar's motives have been all game, town will close this one out.

[ICEninja]

All right as for Garmr, I actually get the feeling that he didn't know what was going on between Garmr and Thor. He was frustrated about it too. Therefore I believe daytalk was just between Thor and Slandaar.

As a result, Garmr tried to keep himself as disconnected from Thor and Slandaar as possible, but was still offering support to his "leader" as subtly as possible. Here are a few examples of what I'm referring to:
Here is Garmr's first time calling out ABR on anything. It is very mild.
Here, he starts pushing zakk while keeping ABR as a scum read for what pretty much looks like because ABR had voted him.
Post 222 is something I missed my first time through, and is huge. Let me highlight the slip here:

Well I made my vote earlier before I really looked at the wagon deeply and that was around the time I was asked to look onto my wagon. I was and still am having trouble deciding which wagon to place my vote down. Zakk is not posting much at all and bit of pressure may make him pick up his game. But Albert is posting more and a

wagon on him and is more likely to slip.

VOTE: Zakk

This very clearly demonstrates that Garmr is more interested in pushing a wagon than lynching scum. He practically admitted to wanting to push the easier mislynch here. This kind of slip screams newbscum, which Garmr seems to fit the bill nicely.
This post felt really contrived to me. There could be two likely reasons for this, one he was really hoping ABR would claim power role or two he was faking frustration. Town simply doesn't get that upset when someone claims VT at a perfectly justifiable moment.

Then right after we have this:

I said you were scum yet I think zakk is the better lynch because he is. But I'm quite qilling to lynch you to. If you are VT town you screwed up town play if your scum your going for the safe claim.

Your tipping my hand to vote you.

Now he's expressing willingness to follow Thor.

I interrupted it that way. But why would you think that. Sure i feel like your scum but i got 8 days to place my vote. 8 days is allot of time to gather more information and make my case against Zakk. Zakk>You Also placing you at lynch one would be stupid since people will herpaderp hammer you.

More pushing from the sidelines. This is a LOT scummier than what Slandaar is accusing me of.
this post is absolutely awful. He hasn't pushed zakk except for this post (which was the ONE nagging piece of information that makes me feel Slandaar is a better lynch for today just in case I'm wrong about Garmr), is sitting at an L-6 vote, but still supporting that ABR lynch. Bad bad bad.

Then day 2, this gem:

At the end of the debate I decided Slandaar was town and Thor was Town the Thor read changing today because of the night actions.

He really wanted to read both Slandaar and Thor as town, that's for sure. Pity he couldn't give Thor a town read anymore.

[ICEninja]

Finally, let's look at this:

Vote Count 1.21

havingfitz

(0)
ICEninja (0)
zakk (0)
Garmr (2) Skelda,

Maxous

toolenduso (0)
Sir Bastion (0)
Slandaar (0)

Thor665

(2) Slandaar,

Albert B. Rampage

Elyse (0)

Maxous

(0)

F-16_Fighting_Falcon

(0)

Albert B. Rampage

(7)

Thor665

, toolenduso, Sir Bastion, ICEninja, Elyse, Garmr,

F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Skelda (0)

Not Voting:

havingfitz

, zakk

Here are a few assumptions I feel safe making for the purpose of day 3's lynch:
1) There was

NOT

a whole scum team voting for ABR here.
2) Due to Elyse flat out ensuring Thor's death at the beginning of day 2, it is safe to say she is not scum.
3) Scum having directed BOTH of their night kills to people off the ABR wagon suggests that there are probably 2 scum on the wagon.

Number 3 especially makes sense considering the people OFF the wagon who are still alive is a grand total of Skelda, Slandaar, and zakk. Zakk is a weak town read because I don't think scum would have wanted to kill the only guy calling him town.

Slandaar tunneled Thor unbelievably hard the entirety of Day 1. There's NO POSSIBLE way that town Slandaar could have known from that retarded misrep debacle that Thor was scum. He was SO SURE. Because he WAS sure. Duh.

As for the last scum, it makes sense for them to want to help the lynch but be as far from supporting Thor as possible, as discreet about it as possible. I've already made it clear who fits that bill.

The team of Thor, Slandaar, and Garmr just makes so much sense.

[Garmr]

Wait wait wait. So you are saying that both slandaar and thor are scum and I was trying to push a lynch on one of them earlier from the sidelines because i'm scum to? That's stretching it pretty far and doesn't make sense. it would be incredibly risky.

Garmr wrote:
Well I made my vote earlier before I really looked at the wagon deeply and that was around the time I was asked to look onto my wagon. I was and still am having trouble deciding which wagon to place my vote down. Zakk is not posting much at all and bit of pressure may make him pick up his game. But Albert is posting more and a wagon on him and is more likely to slip.


VOTE: Zakk

This very clearly demonstrates that Garmr is more interested in pushing a wagon than lynching scum. He practically admitted to wanting to push the easier mislynch here. This kind of slip screams newbscum, which Garmr seems to fit the bill nicely.
This post felt really contrived to me. There could be two likely reasons for this, one he was really hoping ABR would claim power role or two he was faking frustration. Town simply doesn't get that upset when someone claims VT at a perfectly justifiable moment.

Well lets smash this misrep out the way. Read it all I mean all of it. My post said i wanted pressure on zakk so he would post more and not lurk. But ABR already had a wagon and was more likely to slip if he was scum. So setting up albert for a early lynch or pushing zakk for more activity where would you place your vote?.

Another thing I have never seen someone claim so fucking early of course it was weird I didn't know how to react. We also know scum had day chat at the time don't you think I would of been more coordinated and known how to answer if i was scum.


I would post more to defend myself but seriously most of your cases have been filled with lies and misreps like the one above.


We should just lynch ice now his scum.

[Sir Bastion]

So here's my conspiracy theory that makes SO MUCH more sense now that we saw a daychat flip (NOTE: I have never to memory encountered an encrypter before, but I have not only encountered scum with daychat but BEEN scum with daychat.

Therefore I believe that either only Thor was allowed to post and the other read or Thor was able to have a one-on-one with one but not all scum. Otherwise they would just have daytalk powers and the name "encrypter" would not have been neccesary.

I believe scum's daytalk abilities died with thor) I think Slandaar is a very likely scum buddy for Thor.

What are you basing this on?

[Elyse]

ICE, how many games have you played in?

I feel like you are faking ignorance with not knowing (and not bothering to look up as Slandaar pointed out) what a hider is and conjuring up this huge theory about scum's daytalk capabilities.

If you look on the wiki, an encryptor is "a role that allows people who can converse with it to talk during the Day phase. Otherwise, they are restricted to speaking during the Night phase."

The reason for an encryptor over just giving the scum daytalk is (I'm guessing) because scum has to be more methodical with who they kill and who they bus/buddy up to. Daytalk dies with Thor, I'm assuming, so it's more important for scum to keep him alive than a regular goon or whatever.

You are approaching 4 years on-site and you seem competent and analytical, so I'm having a hard time believing that you really don't know about these things. It seems like you are trying to pass off the "too dumb to be scum" card. (Dumb being about the setup, not your actual intelligence)

[toolenduso]

As per the ScumQT in this finished game where the mafia had an encryptor:

"You're an Encryptor. Your role enables scum to Day talk all the time. Scum lose this luxury if you become 'Vanillized' or die."

That was from hoopla, the mod of the game.

[Slandaar]

Finally, let's look at this:

Vote Count 1.21

havingfitz

(0)
ICEninja (0)
zakk (0)
Garmr (2) Skelda,

Maxous

toolenduso (0)
Sir Bastion (0)
Slandaar (0)

Thor665

(2) Slandaar,

Albert B. Rampage

Elyse (0)

Maxous

(0)

F-16_Fighting_Falcon

(0)

Albert B. Rampage

(7)

Thor665

, toolenduso, Sir Bastion, ICEninja, Elyse, Garmr,

F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Skelda (0)

Not Voting:

havingfitz

, zakk

ooooooooooooooooooooooooh how pretty!

Theres greens and reds I love it! thank you Ice I will treasure it forever!

Here are a few assumptions I feel safe making for the purpose of day 3's lynch:
1) There was

NOT

a whole scum team voting for ABR here.

One of those assumptions that in fact is worthless.

2) Due to Elyse flat out ensuring Thor's death at the beginning of day 2, it is safe to say she is not scum.

Eh, no, someone was going to point it out it was pretty obvious. Oh and scum had daychat.

3) Scum having directed BOTH of their night kills to people off the ABR wagon suggests that there are probably 2 scum on the wagon.

Or they killed Max who was pretty unanimously townread and then Fitz who is a PR... who knows? If we are saying 2 scum on the wagon why not just say all 3? oh right point 1!!!

Number 3 especially makes sense considering the people OFF the wagon who are still alive is a grand total of Skelda, Slandaar, and zakk. Zakk is a weak town read because I don't think scum would have wanted to kill the only guy calling him town.

Yeah this is pretty laughable.

Maybe they killed Max because he was a unanimous townread and didn't care too much about Zakk's 'only town read' because one townread isn't going to do a lot is it?

Slandaar tunneled Thor unbelievably hard the entirety of Day 1. There's NO POSSIBLE way that town Slandaar could have known from that retarded misrep debacle that Thor was scum. He was SO SURE. Because he WAS sure. Duh.

Or I am town who read Thor based on a high level meta case.

Tunneled unbelievably hard for practically nothing as some might say ... yep thats my town meta.

[Skelda]

I don't know what I'm doing, I don't remember what was going on, and I've hardly read the thread. So yes, I imagine I would be.

I'd be putting more effort into this game if I were scum. As it stands, I overbooked myself. And I'm not really in the swing of things. I could just replace out if you don't want to bother dealing with me. Or I could stay and try to makd myself useful somehow.

Then just explain your post.

What do you mean by Ice being afraid of Thor incriminating him? Is there a particular post where ICE tried to shut day 2 down early or avoided chatting to thor?

Well, did Thor even post Day 2? Was he hammered before he had the chance?

I'd be down with Slandaar dying, I suppose. He seems to fit nicely with Thor as scum.

[Slandaar]

Trying your best to lynch scum on day 1 instead of town is also pure profits for town.

True.

I provided pure profits for town on D1. Thanks for that?

I also find it funny that Slandaar isn't including the other scum, Garmr (I'll explain in a bit), in the scum team.

He isn't willing to take the risk that once I flip town and Garmr scum that people are going to remember that I called out the whole scum team on day 3.

That is funny!

Can you explain the bolded please? I don't actually understand what you are saying and I am sure its a scum thing so yeah help me lynch you! thanks.

The only way scum can win is to lynch 2 townies in a row, pretty much. So long as everyone takes the time to really digest the information and look at where Slandaar's motives have been all game, town will close this one out.

You mean trying to lynch Thor (scum) and not being a part of any mislynches?

That seems pretty town motivated to me.

[toolenduso]

Or they killed Max who was pretty unanimously townread and then Fitz who is a PR... who knows? If we are saying 2 scum on the wagon why not just say all 3? oh right point 1!!!.

Maxous wasn't quite unanimous. I had him on my scumlist going into day 2, and I believe I had stated during day 1 that I suspected him.

But I think this is the second time you've argued that scum killed fitz because he was a PR. How were they supposed to know he was a PR before he died?

[Slandaar]

I'd be down with Slandaar dying, I suppose. He seems to fit nicely with Thor as scum.

Do go on.

[Elyse]

Skelda, you are voting ICE yet you think Slandaar fits nice with Thor-scum?

Can we lynch this instead?

[ICEninja]

ICE, how many games have you played in?

If my signature is up to date and accurate, this would be my 29th.

No one has, of yet, come up with any reason why me pretending to be ignorant of what a hider would benefit scum. Is it really that hard to believe that I stopped playing mafia for a while and didn't remember a lot of things?

This comment from the wiki is the basis for my theory:

"Note that including an Encryptor in a Mafia faction that has two members is equivalent to simply giving the faction daytalk outright. "

It implies, though doesn't state outright, that a 3 man mafia will not all be able to communicate freely. However, tool just linked a game where it looks like the encryptor being alive gives the entire team daytalk, and killing him removes it.

Either way, regardless of how the encryptor works, I believe that killing Thor prevented scum's daytalk. There seem to be 3 possibilities here:

1) Scum have 2 "Mafia encryptor" roles that share a QT (how I interpreted the wiki)
2) Thor being alive granted scum daytalk, Thor's death closed the QT. (the game tool linked)
3) Thor was able to send messages to scum buddies freely who could not reply (least likely, just a possibility)

Based on what the wiki says I don't believe all 3 scum have free day talk regardless of who is alive or not.

PEDIT: Slandaar, I've played with you before. You were neither a dick nor an idiot that game. Quit with the excessively condescending tone, it's starting to really piss me off.