Mini 1505: N is for Normal (game over)

[N]

Vote Count 2.05

havingfitz

(0)

ICEninja

(0)

zakk

(0)

Garmr

(1) ICEninja

toolenduso

(1) Skelda

Sir Bastion

(1) Thor665

Slandaar

(0)

Thor665

(3) Elyse, Sir Bastion, Slandaar

Elyse

(0)

Skelda

(0)

Not Voting:

havingfitz, zakk, Garmr, toolenduso

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-11-05 22:21:57)

[Sir Bastion]

skelda has not been on since their last post. Which was exactly a day ago so either they will show up around this time today and give their input and we can move on or we just move on.


Ice there are two people calling for my head. You know one, His name is Thor he has been taking bits and pieces of my posts and creating fantasy. You've recently been oddly caught up in one (by being wrong) with the whole normal fiasco, for some reason despite being corrected he still thinks I think PGO is non normal.

The other is Zakk who has an impressive list of posts of mine that he has found problems with. I have offered to go through the list and defend myself, or if he'd prefer I can wait until the whole business with thor is over and he can directly push me and I'll defend myself then. The list is here btw in case you missed it

Tool's case on Garmr is solid enough and I think its worth a follow up tomorrow

[havingfitz]

Pardon the

embedded responses

…I didn’t feel like breaking my reply into multiple quotes:

@Fitz:

Sure Tool....re: your case in Post 822:

You thought the milking D1 sentiment was fine. Check

Then you provided a D1 exchange between Thor and Gamr (where I think the summary is that Thor is suspecting Garmr for wanting to wait?)....but then you put in a quote (Post 790) from D2 where Garmr is being consistent about "milking the day". Why does his consistency wrt milking the day on D1 and D2 make him suspect? Or at least...what does his D2 comment have to do with anything? As for Thor coaxing him to vote sooner...why does the timeliness of Garmr's ABR vote matter when he had stated his intention to vote ABR already? It's not like Thor talked him into voting ABR out of the blue.

My point is that it wasn't consistent. Garmr was fine with "milking" at first, then as soon as Thor challenged him on it, Garmr decided "milking" wasn't a good idea, then in day 2 he's back to the idea of "milking."

The day 2 part isn't even really that important. What's important is the way Garmr reacted to A) being pressured to comment on ABR; and B) Thor challening his "milking" sentiment. Both examples show Garmr perfectly willing to be pushed toward a town lynch.

And I don't think Thor saw any advantage in lynching ABR sooner rather than later -- or if he did, it doesn't matter. But Garmr took Thor's cue, which does matter if Thor flips scum. ScumThor was just challenging things he didn't agree with with equal opportunity, which he's been doing all game. Garmr thought Thor was trying to provide some subtle direction.

I’m not going to quibble over Garmr. You seem to suspect him. I suspect him. Cool.

As for ICEninja, I have no more opinions that haven't been expressed already, so let me see if I can make it even more clear for you.

Post 794: "How can you typically lynch hiders if you've never encountered one?"
Post 817: "“Typically' would imply you have lynched a hider more than once."
Post 881: "you lied about typically lynching them"
Post 881: "you lied about encountering hiders before"

My answer: ICE never, ever, ever, ever said he had encountered a REAL hider. He said he's encountered people who CLAIMED to be hiders, who turned out not to be. The link you posted to the 2010 game is an example of this.

My initial response to ICE came before he expanded on his comment to indicate he meant he never played with a REAL hider. My issues with his comments don’t really matter whether the hiders were real or not.

Here's what ICE is saying: "I have never lynched a real hider. I have lynched fake hiders."

ATTN TOOL….ICE has never lynched a real OR fake hider. So typically he does NOT lynch them. Capisce?

Here's what you're saying: "ICE said he's lynched a real hider!"

I never said this…you aren’t paying attention.

Post 817: "You realize until you know the hider is real or not it’s all the same."

My answer: That would be true during the game in question, but ICE is talking about games that have already ended. Therefore, he can look back now and know with absolute certainty that the people who claimed hider were not hiders.

But his actions that he is discussing were made or not made when he didn’t know it. Assuming he had ever lynched a hider…to say he always lynched them (because they make good fakeclaims) is crap considering he wouldn’t have known at the time he was voting them that they were in fact fake claiming. And as I’ve said a few times now…pay attention…he has never lynched a hider….real or fake. Typically or not.

Post 881: "you lied about not knowing how they work."

My answer:

That post you linked was years ago and I have no memory of it. By the looks of things, before making that post I read the wiki about what hiders do.

I remembered encountering fake claim hiders before. They're uncommon and therefore unlikely to be counter claimed, and a hider surviving the night is a lot less suspicious than a cop surviving the night. I had no memory of them having informational powers, I always thought it was a survival role (like bullet proof, except requires you to pick the person NOT getting shot).

I feel like this pretty much explains everything.

What would scum say? "Oh….I forgot."

Fact is…he said in this game that he did not realize if a hider hid behind scum they would die. Fact is…in the game I link people to…ICE probably has the most to say on the topic of the hider claim in that game and he details the fact that the hider would die if he hid behind scum. So you can say he forgot he knew it…I say he’s full of shit…aka lying. He knew. ICE is not dumb. Hider is a common enough role to have a basic idea of how they work...which he displayed.

If you insist on pursuing this line of reasoning, I challenge you to quote the post where ICE claims to have lynched somebody who actually turned out to be a hider -- NOT a post where he says he's played a game where somebody CLAIMED to be hider, but in fact was NOT A HIDER.

I never said he said that. Put your reading glasses on and you will see I said he has not lynched any hider (despite claiming he typically does) and that he knows the dynamic of them dying behind scum (which he claims he didn’t know).

Good night.

[toolenduso]

ATTN TOOL….ICE has never lynched a real OR fake hider. So typically he does NOT lynch them. Capisce?

Got it. Misunderstood what you were saying.

That being said, that means your entire case boils down to ICE not having as bad a memory as he claims. If you don't want to believe him, fine. I don't think it's a very strong case to just say "there's no way he could have forgotten about a game he played two years ago."

On top of that, why would ICE (if he was scum) want to lie about knowing what a hider does? What advantage would that possibly give him? What harm would he avoid?

[toolenduso]

EBWOP: ICE played that game three years ago.

[ICEninja]

I'm about 90% sure this is the first game I've ever actually encountered a hider in. I don't remember how many fake claims I've encountered, probably 2. I also don't remember if I actually actively lynched any of them due to their claim. I have, however, maintained the mindset in recent play that I would freely hammer any L-1 hider claim because I had never (previously) seen the role, and that it's a very solid fake claim.

I suppose saying that I "typically" lynch claimed hiders implies that I've done it before, but we're just talking semantics here.

Let me break down exactly what I said:

I've never encountered a hider before. It gets fake claimed a lot, so I typically lynch anyone who claims to be one.

My first statement was true, as I've said I've pretty much never played in a game where there was an actual hider. I've played in a couple bastard mod theme games that I don't remember very well so it is possible but I'm pretty sure I haven't. I'm also pretty sure I've seen it fake claimed more than once. I have vague memories of being suspicious of it the second time for reasons I've stated but it has been a really long time I could be misremembering.

Anyways as a result, I've adopted a "go ahead and lynch the claimed hider" mindset, which is what I meant by "typically lynch" anyone who claims to be one.

If you think I'm a lying sack of shit who clearly remembers what every uncommon role is and does and deliberately lied about an offhand comment that didn't really matter to anything and am therefore scum then I doubt I can say anything further to change your mind.

[Slandaar]

11 days 18 hours.

Its like torture.

Lynch Thor then Lynch Ice it really is simple.

[Sir Bastion]

I'd have to agree with slandaar.

With the exception of skelda everyone else have given their 2 cents and thoughts, so we might as well drop the hammer and resume day 3.

Skelda has been given a grace period to catch up, everyone has given their thoughts so no matter who is knocked off tonight we have content to work with (except skelda of course). So we might as well move on.

[zakk]

I'd have to agree with slandaar.

With the exception of skelda everyone else have given their 2 cents and thoughts, so we might as well drop the hammer and resume day 3.

Skelda has been given a grace period to catch up, everyone has given their thoughts so no matter who is knocked off tonight we have content to work with (except skelda of course). So we might as well move on.

Yeah. I agree at this point that Thor is the lynch for the day and there's no buts about that in anyone's mind.

I am too lazy right now to read up on the few people remaining so I'm gonna do this:

Vote: Thor665

His flip will either clear up a lot of things, or it will bust the game wide open because a ton of people's reads were wrong, and scum is totally manipulating us via night kills (if he's town). I mean, after all, it is possible that scum caught F-16's implication that "if he died" people should look into Thor, and perhaps they extrapolated that he was a Hider based on that. And either way it would be a win/win and Thor would be lynched much more easily if they killed off F-16, a pretty townie player.

And if he's scum then I disagree about IceNinja but that's a discussion for tomorrow when we'll see who's left alive. But I am very sure of my town reads, and I think the scum reads are either the people who I read as scum right now (Thor/Sir Bastion), or the people in my "I don't really have a read on them yet" section (Macros/Elyse, and Slandaar). So anyway let's get to that tomorrow.

Thor dies first. Bye, Thor. Fun playing with you but it's time for you to meet an end before this game takes any more crazy turns.

Hey, I just realized: It would be poetic justice if Thor hammered himself. Because, you know, Thor. Hammer. Heh.

[Garmr]

Or I can Hammer him since Garmr's supposed to kill one norse god why not another.
VOTE: Thor

[Sir Bastion]

His flip will either clear up a lot of things, or it will bust the game wide open because a ton of people's reads were wrong, and scum is totally manipulating us via night kills (if he's town). I mean, after all, it is possible that scum caught F-16's implication that "if he died" people should look into Thor, and perhaps they extrapolated that he was a Hider based on that. And either way it would be a win/win and Thor would be lynched much more easily if they killed off F-16, a pretty townie player.

On phone so this might be messy.

There have been only 3 ways shown that falcon could have been killed and Thor is town

2 of them rely on falcon derping

1 he hid behind someone else or he didn't hide at all.


The last is he hid behind a pgo which if Thor is not claiming it then that's the least likely due to it requiring both a derp from falcon and a scum pgo.

Of those 3 only 1 could have been intercepted by scum (he didn't hide at all) and that way means we have 2 scum teams.

[Sir Bastion]

Or sk

[Sir Bastion]

And garmr that was not hammer

[havingfitz]

tool...the motivation for ICE feigning hider ignorance is that it allows him an excuse for not supporting the Thor wagon to start the day.  Sure...it looks bad for Thor but he's allowed to interject that shred of doubt.  To try and direct suspicions elsewhere.  That would be the scum motivation.  ICE caught a little flack for not being immediately supportive of a Thor wagon and acting all confused and dismissive about hiders was his response.  I find it suspect.  And it wasn't 1 lie IMO, it was 3.

He said he had never encountered hiders before (he didn't say real or fake until Slandaar and I called him on it).  Whether they were real or fake...he has in fact encountered them.  You and ICE don't want to stress over real vs fake....fine.  Whatever.  There are still 2 other lies.

ICE says he typically lynches hiders.  He never has!  How can you say you typically do something you've never done before?

ICE says he did not realize the hider died if he hid behind scum.  I've shown proof that he does know they die when they hide behind scum.  He explained it to everyeon else in the game I linked you all to.  He knows.  Could he have forgotten?  Maybe.  But why explicitly state you don't know something you have proven you do before?  Throw out an "iirc"....or an "I'm not sure."  ICE didn't do that.  He was certain.  He "DID NOT KNOW"....but in fact he did.

As for ICE's Post 905.  ICE...your first statement was not true.  You've said you've never encountered a hider before.  You didn't clarify real or fake and IMO there is no difference.  If I'm in a game and someone claims something...if I'm unfamiliar with the role...I look it up.  I do not know they are real or fake until they die.  It's kind of like Schrodinger's cat...are they real or are they fake?  Who knows until they are dead.  Your first encounter showed you clearly knew the basics of how a hider worked.  You had encountered one (albeit fake) and had somehow managed to obtain info on the role.  You had encountered the role of hider.  Fact.

And your typically lynch a hider mindset is a crock of shit!  Semantics my ass.  Semantics is what scum say when you hold them to their words.  You said you typically lynch hiders.  You've never lynched a $%^&* hider.  Fact!

And no...I do not think you are a sack of shit.  I think you are someone who has made comments that have proven to be untrue.  What is the town motivation for saying things that are untrue?  Other than hiding a PR abilty there is no reason afaik. 

So as I've already said before.....Thor will go today because he is guaranteed 100% scum.  And tomorrow remains to be seen....but ICE IMO is a leading candidate (he's mine atm) for his lies (or inadvertant untruths????).  1 lie/oversight....ehhhhhhhhhh....maybe.  3 lies/oversights?  No way.

[havingfitz]

That's L-1 on you Thor

....you self hammering?

For shits and giggles do you want to claim anything? Who is scum? Etc?

[Slandaar]

Ice isn't town. He saw a hider flip which he has been proven to know means they hid behind scum and didn't react to it.

IF he forgot what they did you would think if he is town he would refresh his memory on what it actually does in one of multiple ways;
1. ASK (in thread)
2. Ask the mod
3. Check the Wiki

Also hes getting into a dumb fight about it which if he were town I think he would realise and wouldn't do (lol)

[Garmr]

This is probably going to shoot me up the suspicion list but meh everyone's already suspicious. I get that Ice told a lie but what was the scum motivation behind the lie? I kinda would like it explained.

[havingfitz]

^ well...I gave some motivation in my next to last post. That might be a place to look....

[toolenduso]

@Fitz: So basically you're saying that ICE looked at Elyse's argument before his first post of day 2, thought nobody else would notice it or care about it and decided that nobody would notice or care if he voted for someone else?

@Slandaar: You and Albert were engaged in dumb fights for 90% of day 1. And one of you is already confirmed town, so...

@Thor: Time to bring down the....Mjolnir.

VOTE: Thor665



YYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

[havingfitz]

^ no...I'm saying ICE lied three times and I don't think he is that forgetful or obtuse wrt the hider role.

Why not let Thor have his last say? Would there have been any potential benefit to that? Hmmm?

[N]

Vote Count 2.06

havingfitz

(0)

ICEninja

(0)

zakk

(0)

Garmr

(1) ICEninja

toolenduso

(1) Skelda

Sir Bastion

(1) Thor665

Slandaar

(0)

Thor665

(6) Elyse, Sir Bastion, Slandaar, zakk, Garmr, toolenduso

Elyse

(0)

Skelda

(0)

Not Voting:

havingfitz

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2013-11-05 22:21:57)

[N]

Thor665 has been lynched!
He was a

Mafia Encryptor

.

Night 2 starts now and ends in (expired on 2013-10-27 11:02:49). (Although I cannot guarantee that day 3 will open on time.)

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